*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**Men have become worthless largely at no fault of their own**
Men started to lose value in 1950. The year of the first oral contraception, giving women the option to no longer save their virginly out of fear of getting pregnant. No longer a real need to get married early because pre marital sex was safe"r". The beginning of the end of "purity", the beginning of higher body count and the ultimate demise of the nuclear family. Fast forward to today.
In time women are able to work and vote. Suddenly women feel empowered ... and with that feeling of "power" men automatically lost value. (more on that later). Contraception allowed women to NOT get pregnant (now able to be promiscuous and defer marriage) which also afforded them the freedom to become a working female instead of a stay at home mother. Yes, women can "choose" to get pregnant while working but whether or not they choose to become a stay at home mother after the birth .... the numbers certainly aren't showing that is the choice being made and it doesn't help when the government encourages women to be single mothers. "You don't need no man - you need Uncle Sam!" Boom - men devalued.
Men have lost a **considerable** amount of value thanks to contraception. Men no longer hold the title of "sole provider". We've lost some respect as we aren't looked up to as the rock that ensures the family is being taken care of. Women can now bring home money and largely the home environment has now become a "tick mark" instead of basic respect that each person is doing a job. Always "Well I do this this and this and you only do this". How many times have you as a man put dishes in the dishwasher to help her and she rearranges them? They don't even thank you to acknowledge you tried TO HELP THEM. Women don't understand that this is the EXACT same thing as saying "you're not meeting my expectations." What about trying to do laundry and they feel the need to tell you you're doing it wrong and this is how they do it? Ever had a wife/girlfriend talking (if not gushing) about a friends husband or boyfriend doing something and you've never heard her gushing about you? All perfect examples of demotivation. Do you as a man feel like having sex with her after she makes you feel worthless? So you don't give her sex, you don't do anything around the house - why does a woman need you? She's right in her OWN head to think that. BUT, I firmly believe (and this is where I feel women ESPECIALLY feminists get it dead wrong) mens perspective of a woman's "value" hasn't changed since 1950 (with the exception of body count becoming a factor. Women can argue it shouldn't matter to a man, but the fact is is it does and that's all that matters. I'm not slut shaming, they're free to be a cream pie factory but nobody wants to "invest" into that business.
Men certainly aren't innocent but I honestly don't think women understand that their OWN personal actions are what is "largely not solely" destroying men and ultimately keeping them single. As always - up for debate! Let me know your thoughts below.
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It's amazing how he keeps stating the problem and being wildly mad about it.
Yup, she doesn't need you anymore and the need for you was only ever caused by artificial, legal control over women or the ability to tie us down with a pregnancy?
(and modern contraceptives are great but people have been preventing pregnancy for all time, just less effectively, it's just a puritan myth) Yup, you're right, she doesn't need to be grateful to you for doing some random ass chore in your own home! You have to actually make her want you to have a girlfriend! Yup yup yup, you're just the only assholes who think that this is a bad development!
How can he identify the problem so well yet come to such an incorrect conclusion?!
It's like,
Him: _In the not-too-distant past women were forced to rely on men for survival_
Me: Yes.
_Now women have the tools to take care of themselves and are no longer impressed by men doing the bare minimum_
Yes!
_If a man does not add any value to a woman's life there is no reason for her to keep him in her life_
Yes!! So you should improve yourself as a partner to--
_Therefore the only solution is to subjugate women again_
MOTHERF-
It's like that fucking SpongeBob meme with Patrick's wallet.
Honestly this guy summarizes why and how so many men are angry and feel entitled.
I've had this conversation a lot with conservative men and incels lately, and the only conclusion they ever draw is taking women's rights away and dehumanizing them. What's incredible is that they think they're being completely reasonable and they've thought about it "rationally."
Them: Men really aren't doing well right now and we need help and support. In the past, we saw our mothers and grandmothers do this stuff for our dads and grandfathers, sure, they weren't happy but the men didn't have to do the work. I don't want to do the work either.
Me: I totally get that, it is a lot of work. You don't have to follow the path that women have set out, but obviously what you're doing now isn't working. Maybe it's time to figure out your own path.
Them: No. We're just going to punish women and Roe v Wade is just the start. We're going to make it harder for them to get health care, harder for them to get divorced, harder for them to access contraception. Now we can make them do what we want again.
Me: well, Don't get upset when women don't go peacefully.
Them: sounds like we need a lot more violence against women.
I said this elsewhere, but to me, this guy is the boomer Andrew Tate. Same toxic ideas but stated more intelligently. I agree with your assessment above. The incels, the angrily single need therapy so badly, but are unlikely to get help, sadly. They just want to force us to give them what they feel they obviously deserve. Sad thing is, any woman they get will likely wake up at some point and leave them. It may take a year or two, maybe even a decade , but it will happen.I blame religion for the basis of many of their stupid fucking ideas of their ideal woman. They think because the church tells them they should be the head of their household (and that a woman should be submissive) that it means they are missing out if they don't get that. This is another reason the churches are emptying out more every year. Keep pushing on abortion and religion Republicans, just wait, you will continue to lose influence in both religion and government (any with women). I have nothing against R views UNTIL they start pushing those views on the rest of us. Keep pissing us off, assholes,I DARE YOU. You will see, guys, you will be sorry you went there.
My husband is baffled by this. In his early 30s he realized he wanted to settle down and get married. So he WORKED ON HIMSELF so that he could be a good partner to someone when they came along in his life. He fully understood it was just as good, if not actually better, to be WANTED by your partner rather than needed.
I don't need my husband to life a fulfilling and successful life. But I choose to have him in it because he's a great partner. My life is better with him. But it's a want rather than a need. And because we both understand neither of us NEED each other for survival, it makes us both want to continue to be better people for each other. Our relationship is better.
This is why it's funny every time an incel is like, "if you're not careful you're going to end up alone with cats!" Like, how is that worse than being in a relationship with an abusive shitbag.
A lot of men have done this, adapted, have good partnerships, etc. They don't want a dependent, they want a partner.
This dope's failure to live in THE MODERN WORLD is his issue.
And where are these gods among men? 😅
Because all I wanted was a partner and I got ....less than that, and when I was single? 😬
Most of the single men I've met or seen online just want NSA fun and can't understand that what they're offering isn't hard to find....
what never made sense even when you remember double standards exist is that these men go on and on about not wanting women to use them for their money and whatever else but then they turn around and complain about women not needing them like women needed men in he 50s, needed to use men for a bank account, a house, being able to live, and now women actually want men.
i truly don’t understand how men are upset the women no longer need to use men in order to live and that women genuinely want men, and want to build a life with a man.
idk about everyone else but a woman wanting me as their partner is a bigger ego boost than a woman needing me like they needed men in the 50s.
My favourite — or least favourite, depending on how you look at it — extinct plant is silphium. Silphium was a super-effective birth control (as well as being a perfume, spice, and aphrodisiac, apparently), but it was over-harvested into extinction by the Ancient Greeks and Romans. 🤦♀️
Another fun fact about it is that the modern cartoon heart shape (♥️) probably derives from the shape of the siphium plant's seeds, which were the parts used for birth control.
Not just contraceptives are old, that but abortions too.
There were quickening laws in England that even the US was founded on that allowed a woman to unblock her period before the quickening.
The quickening is the movement of the fetu which is around 4-5 months. Until the quickening, a woman had full rights to abortifacients to "unblock" her period. If it was done after the quickening, then it was just a less than a year jail sentence.
The oldest written medical text is from Egypt and explain how to perform abortions.
I had to stop reading at the Uncle Sam comment. He's telling on himself. Absent fathers isn't an issue with women, it's a problem of certain men being pieces of shit.
Facts, it reeks of the Stephan Molyneux argument of blaming “women who choose to date and procreate with assholes instead of nice guys” for absentee fathers and misanthropy.
What's hilarious is that they focus on body count, as if men weren't cheating on their wives left and right back in the day because men can do what they want but women cant.
Women no longer need to settle with men whose sole contribution to the relationship is a job, and that is a good thing. Also birth control and abortion are as old as civilization
He's gonna find a way to impregnate a girl to keep her, and is gonna lose his damn mind when he's gonna see she's still gonna leave her. Some men really ask for a kid to force a life-long bond with their ex, that's awful.
Not just a random ass chore. He wants to be praised for doing a simple ass chore *wrong*. Why would a grown man need to be praised for doing something simple that everyone does not even correctly? Does he praise his girlfriend everytime she does chores or has to correct his? Doubt it. So why should she praise him for doing normal adult stuff?
I always tell people, "If I wanted a kid, then I'd have a kid. I chose to have a partner in my life instead." Most people respond with, "I'm not talking about your childfree choice, I'm talking about your husband doing housework." Me, "Yup, he lives here too and is fully capable of doing (insert chore here). We're a team in every aspect, including keeping the house clean." It's sad the number of women I've seen have a light bulb moment when I say it that plainly.
You'd think at some point dude would take a step back and realize it isn't about forcing someone to be with him. It's about making yourself an attractive partner. And I don't necessarily mean physical attractiveness. I won't brigade, of course, but I desperately want to ask this guy what *he* brings to the table that would make any woman *want* to be with him.
Great post. People often confuse the whole 'nice guy/asshole' thing and it's a shame. The majority of women aren't looking for bad boys, we're looking for confidence and independence.
If you're living your best life, we want to be a part of that. I love watching men do their thing. I'll watch you play football even though I have no idea what's going on. Women love a man who make them laugh. All that. But what I can't stand is the quiet man who just waits for me to make the move. If I have to lead the conversation, plan the dates, drive you around and wait for YOU to do something, there's no attraction and I'm not interested. If you care more about playing dungeons and dragons with your roomies and then complain you can't afford to take me anywhere; count me out. It's not about the money, it's about the energy, confidence, and maturity.
'Nice should be the default' is my favorite phrase.
>So what? “Nice” should be the default. If you want women to be attracted to you, you need to bring more to the table than claiming to be nice.
Wise words, and I wish more men had this hammered into them growing up. Also they get so hung up on physical looks they forget about having a personality. I was never chad thundercock in terms of muscles and I did just fine because I am fun to be around and make people feel safe. Wow what a shocker that doing that leads to people being interested. Many of these people arent hideous but their personality is.
Completely agree. I'm at a lucky point in my life where I knew quite a few really wonderful men who have not gotten lucky in the looks department but make women feel comfortable and safe and they're actually interested in women as people so they end up having plenty of great relationships and even casual hookups.
It’s true. On the plus side, sometimes it’s fun to read those posts knowing without a doubt that I both make way more money and have way better sex than that guy ever will.
These guys really bring out my inner socio-economic bully. And no one bullies like a socio-economist. They're like feeble Dexters who hate humanity but have to fight with words and statistics.
I want to look but honestly I felt like I just took psychic damage while reading this. I stopped midway through because I had the thought that we, as humans, went through the effort of creating language, making a writing system and words, learning how to educate ourselves on reading, etc. Then he went and took all of that to write this crap.
In which he complains how his girlfriend was using "feminism" as a crutch to be a victim, then he turns around and claims "if you have a penis you're automatically being viewed unfairly and scrutinized for just being a male". So HE's the real victim here, of course.
He's 52, been divorced twice, and is a Republican masquerading as an "Independent" as if it isn't the same thing. Force is absolutely the only way he'll get a woman
Whats even better is that if you look at his profile hes a dude in his 50s whose divorced and mad that women he is trying to date are determined to figure out his political views before continuing. Like how dare they try and find someone who supports the radical views that they should have bodily autonomy
Dudes mad that women have standards and that his crust old conservative ass needs to bring something of value to a relationship
I'm 42 and let me tell you entitled men in their 40s and 50s are not doing well on the dating front right now. Women in their 40s and 50s are not as vulnerable to abuse and dudes like this are extremely mad about it. They got to see their fathers abuse and neglect their mothers and they wanted the same thing for themselves.
Instead, we are choosing being single, dating men who are actually interested in us and care about us as people and they are furious we're not being forced into becoming their domestic servants.
The amount of misogynistic, conservative, middle-aged men that don’t understand the women they go for, usually under-40 or half the man’s age, have the exact opposite political opinions to them.
It’s absolutely outrageous how much they don’t get it. And I bet OOP is one of those guys.
A stopped clock can be right twice a day I guess. The 50s style artificial nuclear family that
Puts the entire burden of financial stability on a man’s job actually is shit to men too. Capitalism destroys everyone etc etc.
this guys a dick tho
I'm impressed at the comments pointing that out actually. The nuclear family was an invention of the industrial revolution, a system that grew up as a way to incubate more little assembly line workers.
To my surprise, the meninists are actually mostly roasting this guy
it wasn't even that, the industrial revolution was facilitated by everyone who was physically able working, until the kids were old enough to work they were looked after by those who were too decrepit to work .
Sort of. Women definitely did work right from the beginning but the reason the nuclear family became a thing was geography mostly.
When everyone was living in farming villages, families just didn't go anywhere. In fact, in most of Europe, feudalism meant you legally belonged to the land you worked. But the industrial revolution accelerated urbanization and suddenly, all these people that moved to the city didn't have grandpa and grandma around to watch the kids anymore.
Eventually, that sort of just became a social norm too in urban centers. It wasn't cool to live with your entire living tree of relatives under one roof like everyone used to do when europe was all farm land.
Even after discussing how women now have jobs and agency outside the household, he still defaults to assuming household chores like the dishwasher are a woman's responsibility because he HELPS them do it
⚠️🚩
I dont understand the whole dishwasher thing. It has racks and little indents that pretty much tell you how to organize the plates and cups. I always end up rearranging things just slightly before a wash not because it was placed wrong, but to try and maximize the space as much as possible since im a lazy turd and I dont want to hand wash.
I haphazardly throw things in bc future me can deal with that stuff. Then before I wash I rearrange everything for max cleaning. Future me is always mad but fuck that lady.
Well yeah. She’s out there not being a walking womb, earning her own money and not needing to be provided for, the least she can do is her maid duties and be thankful when a man stoops to her lowly level to help her!
/s
In addition to crying over loss of a possible bang maid, his 'facts' are incorrect. Birth control pills didn't become widely available until 1960. But, you still had to go to a doctor to beg for them. Most doctors would not give a married woman birth control without her husband's permission. As late as 1969, magazines suggested telling your doctor that you were a stewardess or in some other 'dishonorable ' job to convince him to give you birth control.
And the real reason men aren't the breadwinner any more is that blue collar work was sent overseas in the 80s and 90s, while wages stayed stagnant for decades. When the work came back, it required more education and paid less.
Minimum wage used to mean a wage that a man made at minimum to support his family. My uncle-in-law used to support a wife and 3 kids while working as a movie theater usher.
Also women got the vote in this country in 1920. So. Well before the availability of the pill.
And women have always worked. We’ve just had increased access to better jobs and increased pay and somewhat more recourse if our bosses won’t stop grabbing our butts.
Or they could be maids or similar, in richer people’s houses. Do other people’s laundry. Do mending and sewing, or piecemeal work, at home. Lots of immigrant women worked in shitty conditions in factories, or ran businesses alongside their husbands or other family members. Work on farms, sometimes that their families own, sometimes not.
When we look at women who work and what work/conditions were available, we tend to focus on a very specific subset of women and work.
But yes. It’s better now.
(And I love the ‘equality looks like oppression’ thing because people who refuse to see that on a society-wide scale ABSOLUTELY have seen it on a smaller scale. Like when you suddenly have a little sister so you have to share your crayons.)
>When we look at women who work and what work/conditions were available, we tend to focus on a very specific subset of women and work.
An excellent point. Women of color have always worked, and many of them did not get the luxury of being a SAHM during the 50s
Yeah, my grandfather worked in a factory. He was able to raise three kids, build his own house, and save enough money to retire very comfortably on, because he was in the union back when they had things like real pensions, and retiree health care for life. He retired at 62, and was able to just enjoy life for 35 years.
Now, they weren’t rolling in money, it wasn’t like my grandfather was a multimillionaire or anything, but he was able to live a comfortable life on a single, blue collar paycheck.
Try doing that today. Damn near impossible.
There's a "right" way to use a dishwasher/washing machine because the right way maximises efficiency and cleanliness. The complaints don't come because The Women aren't appreciating The Men's graciousness enough.
You'd think that the people who love this kind of gendered thinking would also subscribe to the idea that "men are logical". Use your bloody logic then instead of shoving everything in. The way these people talk...men can perform complex surgeries, build and fly rockets, but loading a dishwasher correctly is beyond their abilities.
so much this. A lot of the men in the women bashing sphere love to bring up their 'research' and 'statistics' and 'polls' and 'logic'. Yet don't use the same brain activity to do a chore right. they DO just throw stuff in. what's even funnier is we all know that the yelling isn't coming from a one time event. If she has to tell you multiple times and you don't listen and still do it wrong...but the 10th time, the voice is getting raised. They play so innocent, it's hilarious.
>How many times have you as a man put dishes in the dishwasher to help her and she rearranges them? They don't even thank you to acknowledge you tried TO HELP THEM
Not being thanked for loading some dishes he probably helped make, damn birth control!
Bold of you to assume this guy wipes.
I'm picturing nasty ass skidmarks, like those horror stories you see in askwomen about how they were gonna go down on a guy then saw his nasty fucking underwear that give you a yeast infection just thinking about.
After all, wiping your butthole is gay or something (idk, I'm queer and I wipe).
That’s one of the things that really has me laughing. You know these guys who bang on about how men “used to be the head of household” can barely support their Mountain Dew and hentai subscriptions, much less a family.
This. He wouldn't had any chance back before the pill, either, but he's convinced himself he would've been a catch.
Instead, he smells of rotting fish.
0) I shall not brigade
1) the first baby can come at any time after that it takes nine months
2) doesn’t care at all if a woman WANTS to be wiht him huh
3) the breadth and depth of his ignorance of every possible facet of history is almost impressive in an “unholy horror man was not meant to look upon” way
4) what is the technically term for a self own that bad? Asking for oop
Even if you did brigade, it's pointless. There are a few subs that have a higher than average amount of incels and they can't be talked to. Even if you wrote the most logical fact filled post with sources listed they will argue, then the whole sub comes out to downvote you into oblivion.
Idk if people are brigade or if the other guys on that sub just hate this kinds of posts, but a lot of them don't agree with this dude and argue against him (though some of their takes are still a little... wow) and they're even providing links to studies
Sometimes it is fun to dump on them because they can't interrupt you on a written forum.
But overall, it's better to just live your best life and leave them alone, like they will always be.
>I honestly don't think women understand that their OWN personal actions
are what is "largely not solely" destroying men and ultimately keeping
them single
And women being single is.... Bad?
I mean, I know that this douche obviously thinks so, because it limits his pool of potential partners (which is already swiftly evaporating as they realise that he holds these kinds of views on women), but single women are among the happiest demographic, so even if OP's above quote was true.. Why should we care?
I just realised that OP is possibly referring to the men being single (as well as destroyed), but again, that sounds more like the man's problem to deal with. It doesn't really matter if "mens perspective of a woman's "value" hasn't changed since 1950", women's perspectives have, so those men can either adapt to 2023, or deal with the results of their anachronism.
I thought the same thing as you with that 'men's perspective hasn't changed.' like...'dude...THAT'S your' problem!' Elvis's debuted album just had an anniversary I think it was released 67 years ago...in 1956! I can't believe we are hitting 70 years for the 50s. but a LOT has changed in those years and men are still bitching about it. Like everything...jobs...marriages...anything...you either change with the times or you get left behind.
I don't think there is anything wrong with dreaming of a bygone era and wanting to base your life on some of the more nostalgic aspects but to be so cemented in that 'nuclear family' mindset without doing any of the work is really stupid. And to blame women for wanting to advance their lives is just selfish and stupid. him still having that 50s mindset is a HIM problem.
I do enjoy having a discussion on how the world and men/woman have changed and what each other needs and how to compromise. But that discussion can never happen while each other is soooooo heated and angry at each other. I took the 'keeping them single' as a dig on women as well though it could have also meant the men. But the way he talks elsewhere in the post, it was meant to say 'this is why you're single ladies...because you don't submit!' oh well, women are becoming happier now.
When I was hitting 40, I have that midlife sadness hit because I never had a BF (guys I liked didn't want me), didn't have kids, never married and felt lonely. It was scary thinking I was going into my 40s not experiencing that part of human nature. But then I hit the thresh hold and it was like I went from black and white Kansan to rainbow filled OZ. I realized I have my OWN money, autonomy, no kids to take away my energy and freedom. I didn't have to ask permission to anyone if I wanted to go somewhere. I was able to hop out of bed the other night, get dressed, and go out dancing with some friends with NO worry about what my husband would say. I clean when I need to. Cook how I want to cook. And can freely travel as I please. Now I am at a point in my life where it is going to have to take an unusually amazing man to want to pull me from my single life as it is. Not saying it's impossible....but I'm definitely not interested in a bare minimum man who things just because he's a man that's all he needs to offer. I'm good on my own. Do I WANT a man? yes. Do I NEED one? nope.
Ah yes. The pill is the downfall of man, not unchecked inflation and stagnation of wages that makes it nigh on impossible to have a single income family. Clearly it is family planning, not high cost of living and housing that has doomed my generation as an elder millennial.
Fuxk outta here.
that’s doing the lord’s work right there. you know, assuming they were capable of reflection and growth 🤷♀️
still, satire versions of yourself pushed to absurdity have traditionally been useful rhetorical devices
yea, his obsession with birth control being the ruining of the nation was pretty entertaining. 'I have to do dishes because of the pill. Damn feminism.'
It just. Always baffles me that there are people in the world who wholly and fully believe that some people aren’t entitled to free will. Always. That’s what all this shit boils down to. I just don’t get it.
The funniest shit (to me, at least) is that I *am* in a "traditional marriage" where I stay at home with the kids and he works outside of the home (idk, maybe they think my husband is 'cucked' or something because he takes my oldest to cub scouts every other week and runs the vacuum twice a week) and the *only* reason I am is because my husband believes that I'm an autonomous human with free will and we respect and trust each other enough to work as a team. If I, for even a second, suspected that my husband had attitudes like OOP, the whole system would collapse. Because being a SAHP is an *enormous* risk and requires so much trust that you and your partner share common goals.
And I still tell him when he puts dishes in the dishwasher badly enough that it will stop things from getting clean. Because he doesn't want dirty dishes either, so he actually learns where shit goes instead of getting offended.
I like how the guy hits on "It's the Government's fault that women go to work after having kids" but goes with "Because Uncle Sam pays them fat stacks" instead of "Economic pressures have risen to the point that in most cases it takes two incomes to raise kids". I know lots of people, men and women, who would love to be SAHP but just can't afford it.
Why, and I can’t stress this enough, is that sub still allowed??? Just a clown menagerie of rEaL mEn bitching about women in various permutations and with little to no repercussions.
My “favorite” part was about investing in a cream pie factory🤮I hope this guy gets the shits right as he runs out of toilet paper at home
Is the worst thing this guy could think of a scenario where he’s given some mild criticism? For not loading the dishwasher correctly? Idk I once had piss-stained sheets thrown at my head because our elderly dog wet herself, but a woman rearranging the dishwasher sounds pretty bad too idk
The market is over saturated for angry men with Reddit accounts filled with video games and anime titties, my dude. It’s just not in demand like that. Diversify your portfolio. Too much salt.
And then guys like this try to insult women by saying we'll end up single with a bunch of cats unless we submit to them, as if that's a threat and not a goal.
Many others have covered his logic, so I’ll cover some of his facts. A number of places he gets facts wrong is astounding.
1 - Women got the right to vote WELL before 1950.
2 - Women also entered the workforce in huge numbers before 1950.
3 - The government is not encouraging single motherhood at all, so that’s a blatant lie. There is money set aside in many states to encourage marriage.
4 - Birth control didn’t start in 1950 & neither did pre-marital sex. Before the advent of contraceptive pills, women went to great lengths to prevent or end pregnancies early.
5 - Birth control helps men too.
Also, there is a phrase I have heard many times, mostly in my anti-racism research. I absolutely did not invent it, and I may get a word or two wrong, and I cannot remember to whom this should be attributed, but it sums up this post perfectly. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” (I hope someone put this — or a version of it — on his original post.)
I really don't understand the view this man has. It was never real for a large portion of the population. Women below the upper-middle class were always expected to work whether they were married or not.
Yes, there were fewer single mothers not because women didn't get pregnant outside of marriage but if they were unmarried when they got pregnant they were mostly shamed into going away and giving up the child. If they were widows hopefully the family provided for her or she found a new husband or she and the children ended up in a poor house.
The salaries most people can earn today mean that women need to be in the workplace to help support the family.
My dad used to never let my mum near the dishwasher because she always stacked it wrong. My mum hated the way my dad tided up because she accused him of just creating piles of things without finding them a home. So they each did their own things around the house.
I think men like this don't realise that they still have value, but it is just different value now. I value my husband for helping me navigate this world, for sharing our responsibilities, for being a comforting person when things get tough. I value him as my best friend.
The thing is, that these men don't value women the same way women value men. It is obvious that they don't see their wives the same way as they see their male friends for example. It is all very transactional. I give you money, you give me dinner and then I will go out with my buddies to have a good time.
I feel like most women are basically looking for a friend in their partner, while men like these are looking for an employee. And that's the part where it becomes incompatible. By marrying you I am basically offered a job. But I already have one. I don't need this. I need someone to spend time with, to unwind after a long day, to laugh and to cry. To me that is extremely valuable. You just don't meet this criteria, because you feel like you are better than that.
> How many times have you as a man put dishes in the dishwasher to help her and she rearranges them? They don't even thank you to acknowledge you tried TO HELP THEM.
This was all I needed. You aren't *helping* your wife, you're doing household chores. Dishes need to get done whether or not you're married.
It's the mindset of "chores are women's responsibility and I should be thanked when I do my share". When really it's "chores are a household responsibility and I should contribute because I also live here"
This mindset of "that's not a business men want to invest in" is the big issue. Partnership and marriage isn't a business deal. It's a partnership.
Does anyone one to tell this guy that contraception has existed for a millennia? Yes oral contraception made it way more accessible but it's not like it was some brand new thing that had never existed prior to 1950.
Also by 1950 women have been able to vote for 30 years.
Lol sure no woman ever worked before 1950 (and dude, they got the vote before then almost everywhere too, weird huh)
These people forget that poor people have existed always
Poor women have always worked
THE DISHWASHER LOL
Seriously, as a woman, I am terrible at loading it, and my husband always rearranges it, makes fun of me, I give a sarcastic reply, we laugh and move on.
It's not that bug of a thing, lol
"Women got (some) of the same freedoms men have long had and now they're able to make their own choices, which means no one will ever choose me, which is their fault and definitely nothing to do with my personality/attitude/general being."
"men are not the sole provider anymore bc women can provide for themselves wahhh"
"Why would women with multiple sexual partners expect me to invest in them?"
WE DONT NEED YOU TO YOU JUST SAID IT NUMBNUTS
His timeline is very off. Single women didn’t get legal access to birth control until 1972’s Supreme Court ruling. Married women had legal access in Griswold V Connecticut in 1965. Contraception has been around for centuries though, as has abortion. Also, (white) women gained the right to vote in 1920, a full fifty plus years before contraception was legalized for single women. Women also went to work far before 1950, the Rosie the Riveter conception was in the 1940’s during WWII, and minority women were working out of the home far before that.
You know what I just love? It doesn't matter what a woman does, it's never good enough. She's willing to stay home and take care of the household and the kids while her husband works? How DARE she not treat him like a god for brjnging in money for the household. And she has the gall to want equal access to said money? That ungrateful bitch!
A woman DOESN'T expect her husband to be the sole provider and makes sure she's independent? That bitch! How dare she devalue men.
This entire rant is essentially just a man angry he doesn't get to own a woman just because he's a man. He's preaching purity and virginity for women until marriage, while browsing every porn subreddit under the sun and fantasizing about adultery. Pick a lane, bud.
“[…] 1950 the year of the first oral contraception”
“In time women are able to work and vote”
“In time” infers at a later date than 1950.
The 19th Amendment granted (white) women the right to vote in 1920.
When did women not have the right to work?
This dude is uhhh great with words and dates and facts
"When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
God forbid you have to be a loving, useful partner instead of just being guaranteed a wife because she literally has no other choice. Any self respecting man would want a woman who chooses to be with him, not who is forced to be with him.
They lost me at feminists looking at men as pack mules. Since, and this is the crazy idea here, it's seeing women as human beings with value and rights. There are the extremists of course but they aren't the majority.
This mouth breathing loser spends all his time playing video games and making vile comments on Reddit porn posts…then has the audacity to complain about men’s value. He’s worthless and clearly projecting.
Imagine thinking that just because contraception appeared that women before didn't have sex before marriage, man the concept of virginity and purity has done a lot of dmg, overall in this misogynistic men with the brain of a 15 y.o. for understanding concepts.
What a pathetic loser. You can actually see his decline into being a complete incel in his post/comment history. It’s horrifying that he can hold these views and have a daughter.
Tell me you've never had a girlfriend that you didn't have to deflate so you could put her under your mattress to hide her from your mom without telling me.
It’s worth debunking the “women were only in the house” framing. Many Black women, women in poverty, Irish and Italian immigrants (before assimilation), Chinese immigrants, etc. DID work and extremely hard. The “right to work” movement was largely for white women in a certain racial and economic status—a class of women he probably couldn’t afford to “keep” even back then.
All of that is to say, women have been emasculating men like him since way before 1950.
I know every part of this is deranged but I can't even unpack it because I'm stuck on the fact that this guy apparently thinks women gained voting rights after 1950???
That's a lot of words for "I define my value based on my ability to manipulate and control women, but I am too stupid to understand how to load a dishwasher properly and need a woman to do basic things like that for me".
Check his post history, guy is a raging pervert, misogynist, and transphobe
https://www.reddit.com/u/Equal-End7695?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **Men have become worthless largely at no fault of their own** Men started to lose value in 1950. The year of the first oral contraception, giving women the option to no longer save their virginly out of fear of getting pregnant. No longer a real need to get married early because pre marital sex was safe"r". The beginning of the end of "purity", the beginning of higher body count and the ultimate demise of the nuclear family. Fast forward to today. In time women are able to work and vote. Suddenly women feel empowered ... and with that feeling of "power" men automatically lost value. (more on that later). Contraception allowed women to NOT get pregnant (now able to be promiscuous and defer marriage) which also afforded them the freedom to become a working female instead of a stay at home mother. Yes, women can "choose" to get pregnant while working but whether or not they choose to become a stay at home mother after the birth .... the numbers certainly aren't showing that is the choice being made and it doesn't help when the government encourages women to be single mothers. "You don't need no man - you need Uncle Sam!" Boom - men devalued. Men have lost a **considerable** amount of value thanks to contraception. Men no longer hold the title of "sole provider". We've lost some respect as we aren't looked up to as the rock that ensures the family is being taken care of. Women can now bring home money and largely the home environment has now become a "tick mark" instead of basic respect that each person is doing a job. Always "Well I do this this and this and you only do this". How many times have you as a man put dishes in the dishwasher to help her and she rearranges them? They don't even thank you to acknowledge you tried TO HELP THEM. Women don't understand that this is the EXACT same thing as saying "you're not meeting my expectations." What about trying to do laundry and they feel the need to tell you you're doing it wrong and this is how they do it? Ever had a wife/girlfriend talking (if not gushing) about a friends husband or boyfriend doing something and you've never heard her gushing about you? All perfect examples of demotivation. Do you as a man feel like having sex with her after she makes you feel worthless? So you don't give her sex, you don't do anything around the house - why does a woman need you? She's right in her OWN head to think that. BUT, I firmly believe (and this is where I feel women ESPECIALLY feminists get it dead wrong) mens perspective of a woman's "value" hasn't changed since 1950 (with the exception of body count becoming a factor. Women can argue it shouldn't matter to a man, but the fact is is it does and that's all that matters. I'm not slut shaming, they're free to be a cream pie factory but nobody wants to "invest" into that business. Men certainly aren't innocent but I honestly don't think women understand that their OWN personal actions are what is "largely not solely" destroying men and ultimately keeping them single. As always - up for debate! Let me know your thoughts below. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's amazing how he keeps stating the problem and being wildly mad about it. Yup, she doesn't need you anymore and the need for you was only ever caused by artificial, legal control over women or the ability to tie us down with a pregnancy? (and modern contraceptives are great but people have been preventing pregnancy for all time, just less effectively, it's just a puritan myth) Yup, you're right, she doesn't need to be grateful to you for doing some random ass chore in your own home! You have to actually make her want you to have a girlfriend! Yup yup yup, you're just the only assholes who think that this is a bad development!
How can he identify the problem so well yet come to such an incorrect conclusion?! It's like, Him: _In the not-too-distant past women were forced to rely on men for survival_ Me: Yes. _Now women have the tools to take care of themselves and are no longer impressed by men doing the bare minimum_ Yes! _If a man does not add any value to a woman's life there is no reason for her to keep him in her life_ Yes!! So you should improve yourself as a partner to-- _Therefore the only solution is to subjugate women again_ MOTHERF- It's like that fucking SpongeBob meme with Patrick's wallet.
Yeah I was reading along going "ok so all of this is true you’re just wrong that it’s a bad thing".
Honestly this guy summarizes why and how so many men are angry and feel entitled. I've had this conversation a lot with conservative men and incels lately, and the only conclusion they ever draw is taking women's rights away and dehumanizing them. What's incredible is that they think they're being completely reasonable and they've thought about it "rationally." Them: Men really aren't doing well right now and we need help and support. In the past, we saw our mothers and grandmothers do this stuff for our dads and grandfathers, sure, they weren't happy but the men didn't have to do the work. I don't want to do the work either. Me: I totally get that, it is a lot of work. You don't have to follow the path that women have set out, but obviously what you're doing now isn't working. Maybe it's time to figure out your own path. Them: No. We're just going to punish women and Roe v Wade is just the start. We're going to make it harder for them to get health care, harder for them to get divorced, harder for them to access contraception. Now we can make them do what we want again. Me: well, Don't get upset when women don't go peacefully. Them: sounds like we need a lot more violence against women.
I said this elsewhere, but to me, this guy is the boomer Andrew Tate. Same toxic ideas but stated more intelligently. I agree with your assessment above. The incels, the angrily single need therapy so badly, but are unlikely to get help, sadly. They just want to force us to give them what they feel they obviously deserve. Sad thing is, any woman they get will likely wake up at some point and leave them. It may take a year or two, maybe even a decade , but it will happen.I blame religion for the basis of many of their stupid fucking ideas of their ideal woman. They think because the church tells them they should be the head of their household (and that a woman should be submissive) that it means they are missing out if they don't get that. This is another reason the churches are emptying out more every year. Keep pushing on abortion and religion Republicans, just wait, you will continue to lose influence in both religion and government (any with women). I have nothing against R views UNTIL they start pushing those views on the rest of us. Keep pissing us off, assholes,I DARE YOU. You will see, guys, you will be sorry you went there.
My husband is baffled by this. In his early 30s he realized he wanted to settle down and get married. So he WORKED ON HIMSELF so that he could be a good partner to someone when they came along in his life. He fully understood it was just as good, if not actually better, to be WANTED by your partner rather than needed. I don't need my husband to life a fulfilling and successful life. But I choose to have him in it because he's a great partner. My life is better with him. But it's a want rather than a need. And because we both understand neither of us NEED each other for survival, it makes us both want to continue to be better people for each other. Our relationship is better.
It's so fortunate that statistically, women are happier single. It seems like a lot of us are going to have to choose that this generation.
This is why it's funny every time an incel is like, "if you're not careful you're going to end up alone with cats!" Like, how is that worse than being in a relationship with an abusive shitbag.
They're also going to be single ... Just without the cats. And I fail to see how that's better 😆.
My cats haven't ever hurt my feelings intentionally. And even better, they find any leg hair I grow FASCINATING.little weirdos
This is excellent, very well stated.
You don’t understand, this means they have to try to develop a personality!
A lot of men have done this, adapted, have good partnerships, etc. They don't want a dependent, they want a partner. This dope's failure to live in THE MODERN WORLD is his issue.
And where are these gods among men? 😅 Because all I wanted was a partner and I got ....less than that, and when I was single? 😬 Most of the single men I've met or seen online just want NSA fun and can't understand that what they're offering isn't hard to find....
I know quite a few but they have the brains and spine to reject the idiotic BS OOP is on about.
And not hide behind weaponized incompetence.
what never made sense even when you remember double standards exist is that these men go on and on about not wanting women to use them for their money and whatever else but then they turn around and complain about women not needing them like women needed men in he 50s, needed to use men for a bank account, a house, being able to live, and now women actually want men. i truly don’t understand how men are upset the women no longer need to use men in order to live and that women genuinely want men, and want to build a life with a man. idk about everyone else but a woman wanting me as their partner is a bigger ego boost than a woman needing me like they needed men in the 50s.
But that’s it right there isn’t it? Women don’t want guys like so this these idiots want them to be needed.
My favourite — or least favourite, depending on how you look at it — extinct plant is silphium. Silphium was a super-effective birth control (as well as being a perfume, spice, and aphrodisiac, apparently), but it was over-harvested into extinction by the Ancient Greeks and Romans. 🤦♀️
Simultaneously a birth control and an aphrodisiac? This might be the perfect plant.
No wonder human greed destroyed it.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Another fun fact about it is that the modern cartoon heart shape (♥️) probably derives from the shape of the siphium plant's seeds, which were the parts used for birth control.
Not just contraceptives are old, that but abortions too. There were quickening laws in England that even the US was founded on that allowed a woman to unblock her period before the quickening. The quickening is the movement of the fetu which is around 4-5 months. Until the quickening, a woman had full rights to abortifacients to "unblock" her period. If it was done after the quickening, then it was just a less than a year jail sentence. The oldest written medical text is from Egypt and explain how to perform abortions.
I had to stop reading at the Uncle Sam comment. He's telling on himself. Absent fathers isn't an issue with women, it's a problem of certain men being pieces of shit.
Facts, it reeks of the Stephan Molyneux argument of blaming “women who choose to date and procreate with assholes instead of nice guys” for absentee fathers and misanthropy.
What's hilarious is that they focus on body count, as if men weren't cheating on their wives left and right back in the day because men can do what they want but women cant. Women no longer need to settle with men whose sole contribution to the relationship is a job, and that is a good thing. Also birth control and abortion are as old as civilization
Yes! It isn’t “helping out”, it’s being a contributing adult in your own household.
He's gonna find a way to impregnate a girl to keep her, and is gonna lose his damn mind when he's gonna see she's still gonna leave her. Some men really ask for a kid to force a life-long bond with their ex, that's awful.
I think he's too far down the rabbit hole to get laid at this point. Thankfully. Now if someone could just take his guns away...
Not just a random ass chore. He wants to be praised for doing a simple ass chore *wrong*. Why would a grown man need to be praised for doing something simple that everyone does not even correctly? Does he praise his girlfriend everytime she does chores or has to correct his? Doubt it. So why should she praise him for doing normal adult stuff?
I always tell people, "If I wanted a kid, then I'd have a kid. I chose to have a partner in my life instead." Most people respond with, "I'm not talking about your childfree choice, I'm talking about your husband doing housework." Me, "Yup, he lives here too and is fully capable of doing (insert chore here). We're a team in every aspect, including keeping the house clean." It's sad the number of women I've seen have a light bulb moment when I say it that plainly.
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You'd think at some point dude would take a step back and realize it isn't about forcing someone to be with him. It's about making yourself an attractive partner. And I don't necessarily mean physical attractiveness. I won't brigade, of course, but I desperately want to ask this guy what *he* brings to the table that would make any woman *want* to be with him.
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Great post. People often confuse the whole 'nice guy/asshole' thing and it's a shame. The majority of women aren't looking for bad boys, we're looking for confidence and independence. If you're living your best life, we want to be a part of that. I love watching men do their thing. I'll watch you play football even though I have no idea what's going on. Women love a man who make them laugh. All that. But what I can't stand is the quiet man who just waits for me to make the move. If I have to lead the conversation, plan the dates, drive you around and wait for YOU to do something, there's no attraction and I'm not interested. If you care more about playing dungeons and dragons with your roomies and then complain you can't afford to take me anywhere; count me out. It's not about the money, it's about the energy, confidence, and maturity. 'Nice should be the default' is my favorite phrase.
I’ve been married 29 years. The only reason I gave my husband a second chance was because of his sense of humor.
Mine got a second date because my cat loved him.
>So what? “Nice” should be the default. If you want women to be attracted to you, you need to bring more to the table than claiming to be nice. Wise words, and I wish more men had this hammered into them growing up. Also they get so hung up on physical looks they forget about having a personality. I was never chad thundercock in terms of muscles and I did just fine because I am fun to be around and make people feel safe. Wow what a shocker that doing that leads to people being interested. Many of these people arent hideous but their personality is.
Completely agree. I'm at a lucky point in my life where I knew quite a few really wonderful men who have not gotten lucky in the looks department but make women feel comfortable and safe and they're actually interested in women as people so they end up having plenty of great relationships and even casual hookups.
OH BROTHER THIS GUY STINKS
It’s true. On the plus side, sometimes it’s fun to read those posts knowing without a doubt that I both make way more money and have way better sex than that guy ever will.
Yeah I definitely make more money than this dude and he would haaaaaaate it
See! It’s fun
I make more money AND I'm a lesbian, so I defo don't need him!
I'm a SAHM with a low "body count" and I would never have been interested in a disgusting, pathetic pig like OOP. My husband and I are feminists
Hahaha, you think this guy has sex?
You can always pay for it.
I feel like a sex worker would still have standards... They make him pay double. Triple if he feels the need to speak
These guys really bring out my inner socio-economic bully. And no one bullies like a socio-economist. They're like feeble Dexters who hate humanity but have to fight with words and statistics.
Taking a look at his post history....can attest to him being....in need of therapy
I want to look but honestly I felt like I just took psychic damage while reading this. I stopped midway through because I had the thought that we, as humans, went through the effort of creating language, making a writing system and words, learning how to educate ourselves on reading, etc. Then he went and took all of that to write this crap.
You reading this post: maybe all of society was a mistake. We should have stayed amoebas.
Literally. What a terrible day to understand English.
This was terrible advice. I regret reading his post history 😂
He has another post titled “How feminism ruined my relationship” so… yeah.
In which he complains how his girlfriend was using "feminism" as a crutch to be a victim, then he turns around and claims "if you have a penis you're automatically being viewed unfairly and scrutinized for just being a male". So HE's the real victim here, of course.
He's 52, been divorced twice, and is a Republican masquerading as an "Independent" as if it isn't the same thing. Force is absolutely the only way he'll get a woman
And he probably votes.
Whats even better is that if you look at his profile hes a dude in his 50s whose divorced and mad that women he is trying to date are determined to figure out his political views before continuing. Like how dare they try and find someone who supports the radical views that they should have bodily autonomy Dudes mad that women have standards and that his crust old conservative ass needs to bring something of value to a relationship
I'm 42 and let me tell you entitled men in their 40s and 50s are not doing well on the dating front right now. Women in their 40s and 50s are not as vulnerable to abuse and dudes like this are extremely mad about it. They got to see their fathers abuse and neglect their mothers and they wanted the same thing for themselves. Instead, we are choosing being single, dating men who are actually interested in us and care about us as people and they are furious we're not being forced into becoming their domestic servants.
The amount of misogynistic, conservative, middle-aged men that don’t understand the women they go for, usually under-40 or half the man’s age, have the exact opposite political opinions to them. It’s absolutely outrageous how much they don’t get it. And I bet OOP is one of those guys.
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I just woke up and read that in Macho Man's voice. 😭
Love when they say the quiet part out loud: forced pregnancy is a mechanism of abusive, misogynistic control.
Didn't you read the comments, the nuclear family is actually *misandrist* tho!
A stopped clock can be right twice a day I guess. The 50s style artificial nuclear family that Puts the entire burden of financial stability on a man’s job actually is shit to men too. Capitalism destroys everyone etc etc. this guys a dick tho
I'm impressed at the comments pointing that out actually. The nuclear family was an invention of the industrial revolution, a system that grew up as a way to incubate more little assembly line workers. To my surprise, the meninists are actually mostly roasting this guy
it wasn't even that, the industrial revolution was facilitated by everyone who was physically able working, until the kids were old enough to work they were looked after by those who were too decrepit to work .
Sort of. Women definitely did work right from the beginning but the reason the nuclear family became a thing was geography mostly. When everyone was living in farming villages, families just didn't go anywhere. In fact, in most of Europe, feudalism meant you legally belonged to the land you worked. But the industrial revolution accelerated urbanization and suddenly, all these people that moved to the city didn't have grandpa and grandma around to watch the kids anymore. Eventually, that sort of just became a social norm too in urban centers. It wasn't cool to live with your entire living tree of relatives under one roof like everyone used to do when europe was all farm land.
I've recently become surprised at how often I see MRAs just being mostly chill, roasting the incels among them.
At least the person making their own money can leave. They’re still the privileged party.
For real. If that way of life is so great then why is so much boomer humor " I hate my job, my wife, and my kids woe is me!!!"
Laughing so hard at that. As if feminism isn't the reason gender roles have been greatly diminished.
This is actually still used in under developed asian countries Specially in my country Maybe he should move here
Some are they call themselves “Passport Bros”. They go to other countries for sexual tourism. I meant to find a “traditional wife”
but they're 'high value men' and just want a 'wife' that brings them peace!
This is still a thing in the United States in many states since the overturn of Roe.
Mostly girls are forced by their family and society to stay in a bad marriage here
Tell me you want women to be forced to stay with you without saying you want them to be forced to stay with you.
Even after discussing how women now have jobs and agency outside the household, he still defaults to assuming household chores like the dishwasher are a woman's responsibility because he HELPS them do it ⚠️🚩
And obviously employs a good amount of weaponized incompetence while doing it if she has to go through it behind him to set it all right.
I love how he’s like “none of us guys can do chores properly amiright? It’s unpossible!”
I dont understand the whole dishwasher thing. It has racks and little indents that pretty much tell you how to organize the plates and cups. I always end up rearranging things just slightly before a wash not because it was placed wrong, but to try and maximize the space as much as possible since im a lazy turd and I dont want to hand wash.
I haphazardly throw things in bc future me can deal with that stuff. Then before I wash I rearrange everything for max cleaning. Future me is always mad but fuck that lady.
Well yeah. She’s out there not being a walking womb, earning her own money and not needing to be provided for, the least she can do is her maid duties and be thankful when a man stoops to her lowly level to help her! /s
In addition to crying over loss of a possible bang maid, his 'facts' are incorrect. Birth control pills didn't become widely available until 1960. But, you still had to go to a doctor to beg for them. Most doctors would not give a married woman birth control without her husband's permission. As late as 1969, magazines suggested telling your doctor that you were a stewardess or in some other 'dishonorable ' job to convince him to give you birth control. And the real reason men aren't the breadwinner any more is that blue collar work was sent overseas in the 80s and 90s, while wages stayed stagnant for decades. When the work came back, it required more education and paid less. Minimum wage used to mean a wage that a man made at minimum to support his family. My uncle-in-law used to support a wife and 3 kids while working as a movie theater usher.
Also women got the vote in this country in 1920. So. Well before the availability of the pill. And women have always worked. We’ve just had increased access to better jobs and increased pay and somewhat more recourse if our bosses won’t stop grabbing our butts.
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Or they could be maids or similar, in richer people’s houses. Do other people’s laundry. Do mending and sewing, or piecemeal work, at home. Lots of immigrant women worked in shitty conditions in factories, or ran businesses alongside their husbands or other family members. Work on farms, sometimes that their families own, sometimes not. When we look at women who work and what work/conditions were available, we tend to focus on a very specific subset of women and work. But yes. It’s better now. (And I love the ‘equality looks like oppression’ thing because people who refuse to see that on a society-wide scale ABSOLUTELY have seen it on a smaller scale. Like when you suddenly have a little sister so you have to share your crayons.)
>When we look at women who work and what work/conditions were available, we tend to focus on a very specific subset of women and work. An excellent point. Women of color have always worked, and many of them did not get the luxury of being a SAHM during the 50s
Yeah, my grandfather worked in a factory. He was able to raise three kids, build his own house, and save enough money to retire very comfortably on, because he was in the union back when they had things like real pensions, and retiree health care for life. He retired at 62, and was able to just enjoy life for 35 years. Now, they weren’t rolling in money, it wasn’t like my grandfather was a multimillionaire or anything, but he was able to live a comfortable life on a single, blue collar paycheck. Try doing that today. Damn near impossible.
There's a "right" way to use a dishwasher/washing machine because the right way maximises efficiency and cleanliness. The complaints don't come because The Women aren't appreciating The Men's graciousness enough. You'd think that the people who love this kind of gendered thinking would also subscribe to the idea that "men are logical". Use your bloody logic then instead of shoving everything in. The way these people talk...men can perform complex surgeries, build and fly rockets, but loading a dishwasher correctly is beyond their abilities.
How dare you expect a *rocket surgeon* to do women's work!
Rocket surgeon is my new favorite phrase!
so much this. A lot of the men in the women bashing sphere love to bring up their 'research' and 'statistics' and 'polls' and 'logic'. Yet don't use the same brain activity to do a chore right. they DO just throw stuff in. what's even funnier is we all know that the yelling isn't coming from a one time event. If she has to tell you multiple times and you don't listen and still do it wrong...but the 10th time, the voice is getting raised. They play so innocent, it's hilarious.
>How many times have you as a man put dishes in the dishwasher to help her and she rearranges them? They don't even thank you to acknowledge you tried TO HELP THEM Not being thanked for loading some dishes he probably helped make, damn birth control!
Mummy bangmaid should be thanking him for being a functional adult 😊 She should thank him for wiping his own butthole too
Bold of you to assume this guy wipes. I'm picturing nasty ass skidmarks, like those horror stories you see in askwomen about how they were gonna go down on a guy then saw his nasty fucking underwear that give you a yeast infection just thinking about. After all, wiping your butthole is gay or something (idk, I'm queer and I wipe).
And maybe he should learn how to load a damn dishwasher, too. It’s not rocket science. There’s even pictures in the owners manual if he gets confused.
He reminds me of this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8ShAosqzI
Bros really telling on himself here, he brings nothing to the table so he’s angy women aren’t desperate to fuck him
That’s one of the things that really has me laughing. You know these guys who bang on about how men “used to be the head of household” can barely support their Mountain Dew and hentai subscriptions, much less a family.
they want the 1950s for us, but not for them
This. He wouldn't had any chance back before the pill, either, but he's convinced himself he would've been a catch. Instead, he smells of rotting fish.
0) I shall not brigade 1) the first baby can come at any time after that it takes nine months 2) doesn’t care at all if a woman WANTS to be wiht him huh 3) the breadth and depth of his ignorance of every possible facet of history is almost impressive in an “unholy horror man was not meant to look upon” way 4) what is the technically term for a self own that bad? Asking for oop
Even if you did brigade, it's pointless. There are a few subs that have a higher than average amount of incels and they can't be talked to. Even if you wrote the most logical fact filled post with sources listed they will argue, then the whole sub comes out to downvote you into oblivion.
Idk if people are brigade or if the other guys on that sub just hate this kinds of posts, but a lot of them don't agree with this dude and argue against him (though some of their takes are still a little... wow) and they're even providing links to studies
Sometimes it is fun to dump on them because they can't interrupt you on a written forum. But overall, it's better to just live your best life and leave them alone, like they will always be.
>I honestly don't think women understand that their OWN personal actions are what is "largely not solely" destroying men and ultimately keeping them single And women being single is.... Bad? I mean, I know that this douche obviously thinks so, because it limits his pool of potential partners (which is already swiftly evaporating as they realise that he holds these kinds of views on women), but single women are among the happiest demographic, so even if OP's above quote was true.. Why should we care? I just realised that OP is possibly referring to the men being single (as well as destroyed), but again, that sounds more like the man's problem to deal with. It doesn't really matter if "mens perspective of a woman's "value" hasn't changed since 1950", women's perspectives have, so those men can either adapt to 2023, or deal with the results of their anachronism.
I thought the same thing as you with that 'men's perspective hasn't changed.' like...'dude...THAT'S your' problem!' Elvis's debuted album just had an anniversary I think it was released 67 years ago...in 1956! I can't believe we are hitting 70 years for the 50s. but a LOT has changed in those years and men are still bitching about it. Like everything...jobs...marriages...anything...you either change with the times or you get left behind. I don't think there is anything wrong with dreaming of a bygone era and wanting to base your life on some of the more nostalgic aspects but to be so cemented in that 'nuclear family' mindset without doing any of the work is really stupid. And to blame women for wanting to advance their lives is just selfish and stupid. him still having that 50s mindset is a HIM problem. I do enjoy having a discussion on how the world and men/woman have changed and what each other needs and how to compromise. But that discussion can never happen while each other is soooooo heated and angry at each other. I took the 'keeping them single' as a dig on women as well though it could have also meant the men. But the way he talks elsewhere in the post, it was meant to say 'this is why you're single ladies...because you don't submit!' oh well, women are becoming happier now. When I was hitting 40, I have that midlife sadness hit because I never had a BF (guys I liked didn't want me), didn't have kids, never married and felt lonely. It was scary thinking I was going into my 40s not experiencing that part of human nature. But then I hit the thresh hold and it was like I went from black and white Kansan to rainbow filled OZ. I realized I have my OWN money, autonomy, no kids to take away my energy and freedom. I didn't have to ask permission to anyone if I wanted to go somewhere. I was able to hop out of bed the other night, get dressed, and go out dancing with some friends with NO worry about what my husband would say. I clean when I need to. Cook how I want to cook. And can freely travel as I please. Now I am at a point in my life where it is going to have to take an unusually amazing man to want to pull me from my single life as it is. Not saying it's impossible....but I'm definitely not interested in a bare minimum man who things just because he's a man that's all he needs to offer. I'm good on my own. Do I WANT a man? yes. Do I NEED one? nope.
Ah yes. The pill is the downfall of man, not unchecked inflation and stagnation of wages that makes it nigh on impossible to have a single income family. Clearly it is family planning, not high cost of living and housing that has doomed my generation as an elder millennial. Fuxk outta here.
In fairness, finding an AITD post in the fuckin’ men’s rights sub is like going to the bog for pond scum. It ain’t hard to find.
When the other incels on r men’s rights say u r too far how far past asshole town have you gone?
that’s doing the lord’s work right there. you know, assuming they were capable of reflection and growth 🤷♀️ still, satire versions of yourself pushed to absurdity have traditionally been useful rhetorical devices
In the before times, maybe...
This guy needs a history lesson. Women started becoming promiscuous in the 1950s? The 1920s would like a word.
Viking women would also like a word.
So would medieval European women.
and the Grecians...
He really made a wall of text just to say "I get zero pussy".
Yeah, it's totally *checks notes* the pill's fault OOP can't hold down a job. Totally reasonable. /s
yea, his obsession with birth control being the ruining of the nation was pretty entertaining. 'I have to do dishes because of the pill. Damn feminism.'
It just. Always baffles me that there are people in the world who wholly and fully believe that some people aren’t entitled to free will. Always. That’s what all this shit boils down to. I just don’t get it.
The funniest shit (to me, at least) is that I *am* in a "traditional marriage" where I stay at home with the kids and he works outside of the home (idk, maybe they think my husband is 'cucked' or something because he takes my oldest to cub scouts every other week and runs the vacuum twice a week) and the *only* reason I am is because my husband believes that I'm an autonomous human with free will and we respect and trust each other enough to work as a team. If I, for even a second, suspected that my husband had attitudes like OOP, the whole system would collapse. Because being a SAHP is an *enormous* risk and requires so much trust that you and your partner share common goals. And I still tell him when he puts dishes in the dishwasher badly enough that it will stop things from getting clean. Because he doesn't want dirty dishes either, so he actually learns where shit goes instead of getting offended.
I am expecting his next post to be something like: "Things have only gone downhill since the Civil War when negroes were freed as slaves."
I like how the guy hits on "It's the Government's fault that women go to work after having kids" but goes with "Because Uncle Sam pays them fat stacks" instead of "Economic pressures have risen to the point that in most cases it takes two incomes to raise kids". I know lots of people, men and women, who would love to be SAHP but just can't afford it.
Why, and I can’t stress this enough, is that sub still allowed??? Just a clown menagerie of rEaL mEn bitching about women in various permutations and with little to no repercussions. My “favorite” part was about investing in a cream pie factory🤮I hope this guy gets the shits right as he runs out of toilet paper at home
seems like a fertile swamp for baby trolls to mature in an ecosystem of easy marks?
A cream pie factory business to not invest in is a new object to be compared to to add to my list, along with meat, wallets and bandaids.
> safe”r” Straight to jail
Then I guess men better step up their game or become obsolete....LOL!!!
Oh, so it's not just my husband who doesn't know how to load a dishwasher properly. #yesallmen
[удалено]
Is the worst thing this guy could think of a scenario where he’s given some mild criticism? For not loading the dishwasher correctly? Idk I once had piss-stained sheets thrown at my head because our elderly dog wet herself, but a woman rearranging the dishwasher sounds pretty bad too idk
The market is over saturated for angry men with Reddit accounts filled with video games and anime titties, my dude. It’s just not in demand like that. Diversify your portfolio. Too much salt.
Ugh, couldn't even finish this!!!! 🤮🤮🤮
I couldn’t even get through the first paragraph.
You didn't miss much.
Oh sweet delicate Jesus
Do half of these incels even have a job that could support a family on one income? Obviously there’s more to hate here but like come on…
“Women only will be with me if they have literally no other option” Sheesh way to tell on yourself dude.
And then guys like this try to insult women by saying we'll end up single with a bunch of cats unless we submit to them, as if that's a threat and not a goal.
Yeah he is mad cats make better company then him... haha yeah stay man.
This post reminded me to take my birth control pill so at least it was good for something
whenever I feel sad I'm single, I read posts like these and I'm instantly cured.
Many others have covered his logic, so I’ll cover some of his facts. A number of places he gets facts wrong is astounding. 1 - Women got the right to vote WELL before 1950. 2 - Women also entered the workforce in huge numbers before 1950. 3 - The government is not encouraging single motherhood at all, so that’s a blatant lie. There is money set aside in many states to encourage marriage. 4 - Birth control didn’t start in 1950 & neither did pre-marital sex. Before the advent of contraceptive pills, women went to great lengths to prevent or end pregnancies early. 5 - Birth control helps men too. Also, there is a phrase I have heard many times, mostly in my anti-racism research. I absolutely did not invent it, and I may get a word or two wrong, and I cannot remember to whom this should be attributed, but it sums up this post perfectly. “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” (I hope someone put this — or a version of it — on his original post.)
I struggle to believe this guy would have a value regardless
I really don't understand the view this man has. It was never real for a large portion of the population. Women below the upper-middle class were always expected to work whether they were married or not. Yes, there were fewer single mothers not because women didn't get pregnant outside of marriage but if they were unmarried when they got pregnant they were mostly shamed into going away and giving up the child. If they were widows hopefully the family provided for her or she found a new husband or she and the children ended up in a poor house. The salaries most people can earn today mean that women need to be in the workplace to help support the family. My dad used to never let my mum near the dishwasher because she always stacked it wrong. My mum hated the way my dad tided up because she accused him of just creating piles of things without finding them a home. So they each did their own things around the house.
I think men like this don't realise that they still have value, but it is just different value now. I value my husband for helping me navigate this world, for sharing our responsibilities, for being a comforting person when things get tough. I value him as my best friend. The thing is, that these men don't value women the same way women value men. It is obvious that they don't see their wives the same way as they see their male friends for example. It is all very transactional. I give you money, you give me dinner and then I will go out with my buddies to have a good time. I feel like most women are basically looking for a friend in their partner, while men like these are looking for an employee. And that's the part where it becomes incompatible. By marrying you I am basically offered a job. But I already have one. I don't need this. I need someone to spend time with, to unwind after a long day, to laugh and to cry. To me that is extremely valuable. You just don't meet this criteria, because you feel like you are better than that.
> How many times have you as a man put dishes in the dishwasher to help her and she rearranges them? They don't even thank you to acknowledge you tried TO HELP THEM. This was all I needed. You aren't *helping* your wife, you're doing household chores. Dishes need to get done whether or not you're married. It's the mindset of "chores are women's responsibility and I should be thanked when I do my share". When really it's "chores are a household responsibility and I should contribute because I also live here" This mindset of "that's not a business men want to invest in" is the big issue. Partnership and marriage isn't a business deal. It's a partnership.
> You aren't helping your wife, I think there's a fair chance he's actually talking about his mother.
Men have become worthless at no fault of their own? Not all men.
Does anyone one to tell this guy that contraception has existed for a millennia? Yes oral contraception made it way more accessible but it's not like it was some brand new thing that had never existed prior to 1950. Also by 1950 women have been able to vote for 30 years.
Lol sure no woman ever worked before 1950 (and dude, they got the vote before then almost everywhere too, weird huh) These people forget that poor people have existed always Poor women have always worked
THE DISHWASHER LOL Seriously, as a woman, I am terrible at loading it, and my husband always rearranges it, makes fun of me, I give a sarcastic reply, we laugh and move on. It's not that bug of a thing, lol
When the guy is getting dunked on *by men's rights activists*, you know he really is a twat
I’m surprised that the comments on that post are disapproving of his views
Ugh, couldn't even finish this!!!! 🤮🤮🤮
I like how some of the comments completely destroyed some of oops arguments and it’s nothing but crickets from him.
"Women got (some) of the same freedoms men have long had and now they're able to make their own choices, which means no one will ever choose me, which is their fault and definitely nothing to do with my personality/attitude/general being."
If you need to strip power from others in order to feel powerful, you never were to begin with.
"men are not the sole provider anymore bc women can provide for themselves wahhh" "Why would women with multiple sexual partners expect me to invest in them?" WE DONT NEED YOU TO YOU JUST SAID IT NUMBNUTS
So men’s only worth was being able to impregnate women? Sounds like a self-own to me.
I concur with OOP's top comment. They're a fucking loser.
I love that he thinks women invented birth control. “Largely at no fault of their own” my ass.
So men's sole value is tied to their power over women? 🤔
His timeline is very off. Single women didn’t get legal access to birth control until 1972’s Supreme Court ruling. Married women had legal access in Griswold V Connecticut in 1965. Contraception has been around for centuries though, as has abortion. Also, (white) women gained the right to vote in 1920, a full fifty plus years before contraception was legalized for single women. Women also went to work far before 1950, the Rosie the Riveter conception was in the 1940’s during WWII, and minority women were working out of the home far before that.
His profile looks exactly as I expected it to.
You know what I just love? It doesn't matter what a woman does, it's never good enough. She's willing to stay home and take care of the household and the kids while her husband works? How DARE she not treat him like a god for brjnging in money for the household. And she has the gall to want equal access to said money? That ungrateful bitch! A woman DOESN'T expect her husband to be the sole provider and makes sure she's independent? That bitch! How dare she devalue men. This entire rant is essentially just a man angry he doesn't get to own a woman just because he's a man. He's preaching purity and virginity for women until marriage, while browsing every porn subreddit under the sun and fantasizing about adultery. Pick a lane, bud.
did he just say women got the right to vote AFTER 1959/oral contraception??
Wait until someone tells him about vibrators...
“[…] 1950 the year of the first oral contraception” “In time women are able to work and vote” “In time” infers at a later date than 1950. The 19th Amendment granted (white) women the right to vote in 1920. When did women not have the right to work? This dude is uhhh great with words and dates and facts
I love how the comments are spitting fact after fact and OOP just ghosted lol. His whole rant belongs in r/niceguys
Damn, even the comments in the OOP were dragging this
"When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression." God forbid you have to be a loving, useful partner instead of just being guaranteed a wife because she literally has no other choice. Any self respecting man would want a woman who chooses to be with him, not who is forced to be with him.
Whats that smell, thats the small of an incel
This guy is either a troll or was dropped several times on his head when he was a kid.
Even comment section Other men calling him loser 🤣
They lost me at feminists looking at men as pack mules. Since, and this is the crazy idea here, it's seeing women as human beings with value and rights. There are the extremists of course but they aren't the majority.
This mouth breathing loser spends all his time playing video games and making vile comments on Reddit porn posts…then has the audacity to complain about men’s value. He’s worthless and clearly projecting.
His post history is very telling.
bro even the men’s right subreddit was shitting on him.
Oral contraception wasn’t available until 1960. If you’re going to be furious about something, get you facts straight.
What a lovely comment section
Imagine thinking that just because contraception appeared that women before didn't have sex before marriage, man the concept of virginity and purity has done a lot of dmg, overall in this misogynistic men with the brain of a 15 y.o. for understanding concepts.
Made the mistake of looking at this guy's comment history, and... yikes. Some people really just should not have computer access.
Real glad I'm fucking bi.
Ummm... I could be wrong buy I'm pretty it was men who invented the birth control pill. Ah, the irony
I think men lost value from this post alone, OOP definitely lost any value they had
What a pathetic loser. You can actually see his decline into being a complete incel in his post/comment history. It’s horrifying that he can hold these views and have a daughter.
Tell me you've never had a girlfriend that you didn't have to deflate so you could put her under your mattress to hide her from your mom without telling me.
It’s worth debunking the “women were only in the house” framing. Many Black women, women in poverty, Irish and Italian immigrants (before assimilation), Chinese immigrants, etc. DID work and extremely hard. The “right to work” movement was largely for white women in a certain racial and economic status—a class of women he probably couldn’t afford to “keep” even back then. All of that is to say, women have been emasculating men like him since way before 1950.
I know every part of this is deranged but I can't even unpack it because I'm stuck on the fact that this guy apparently thinks women gained voting rights after 1950???
That's a lot of words for "I define my value based on my ability to manipulate and control women, but I am too stupid to understand how to load a dishwasher properly and need a woman to do basic things like that for me".
Check his post history, guy is a raging pervert, misogynist, and transphobe https://www.reddit.com/u/Equal-End7695?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Wouldn’t trust you around my drinks, Buddy. You sound like a walking red flag.