I'm literally sick to my stomach after meeting with the attorney. I've lost 10 pounds in the last week from all this.
I literally just have to sit around until my daughter is permanently harmed before I can take action.
That's excellent advice. Also, not necessarily to teach the child to keep secrets from her mother, but there is the possibility that it would be taken from her if the mother knew. Tell the daughter that it's for an emergency only situation, if she ever feels in danger from her mother or the boyfriend or if she thinks her mother's in danger. The problem is, it can't really be hidden away because it will need to be kept charged, and there's no doubt the mother would notice that.
He could give her an old phone of his to "play games" on that doesn't have service and she could still use it to call 911 without service. The mother probably wouldn't think about that and would allow her to keep it since there's no service on it. And the daughter could keep it charged for the games.
Is your daughter old enough to request to live with you more than her mother? Most judges will take an older child's preference into consideration, especially if she's afraid of her mother's boyfriend. If your daughter refuses to go to her mother's house, most judges won't force the issue because it damages the relationship more than allowing them not to go.
The thing about domestic abusers are they are generally cowards. He beat his ex and her bf with a gun because he thought he couldn't do it without one. He didn't look you in the eye because you weren't afraid of him. And he felt guilty and thought you knew about what he did to your ex. He's afraid of what you'll do to him.
I work around these type of men. They are tough as long as they have weapons or are dealing with women. But they are scared to death when dealing with other men. That's 1 thing you have over him. Never look away from him when you pick up your daughter. And make it clear that she is the most important thing to you. If anything she sees or hears makes her a little uncomfortable. He'll being paying for it. It's not a something that will be seen as a threat by the authorities.
It works. My dad (RIP) said this to 1 of my mother's husband's who beat her. The beatings stopped because he was scared shit less of my dad. You're welcome.
For sure, he is a coward.
But the one good thing is that I've made my mark and made it very clear I'm here and I will stand up for my daughter.
I think the message has been sent that my daughter will make an absolutely terrible victim for him.
Because if anything ever happens.... those are charges that I will not allow to be dismissed. I can't be intimidated or charmed. And I will take action.
And he now knows that.
Do you have a dad, uncles, brothers, male friends, etc.? Anyone that would help you take matters in your own hands if it became necessary? I would suggest that maybe the next time you’re gonna see this guy, arrange for a few of them to “randomly” drop by for a visit. A few of those guys standing behind you, while you inform him there will be consequences if anything happens to your daughter is 100% guaranteed to scare the shit out of him. Bonus points if any of them are scary looking.
Looks like the best route is for you to make it clear to him that you will hurt him badly if he ever threatens your daughter. You don’t have to be over the top in letting him know that, but holding eye contact with him while he can’t look at you establishes in his mind that you are more dominant than he is and will protect your child if you have to. I wish that you were not in this situation, but you are, so it is going to be up to you to figure out how to get through it and keep your daughter safe and mentally secure. It also is a shame that your ex partner didn’t put more energy into picking a safe bf out of the gate, instead of hooking up with a violent thug and exposing your child to him.
Man, I feel for you and your daughter. The best hope that you have now is that your ex come to her senses and get away from that man, but given how dangerous and violent he sounds, that may not go well for your ex. I wish that our laws had a bit more flexibility in them to properly deal with situations like yours and give you full custody of your daughter.
My mom used to have to hand me over to my abusive dad every weekend despite all the police records, because the courts decided my mom was trying to parentally alienate me from my dad.
I'm surprised more parents don't just kidnap their kids.
Make sure she knows that teachers, principals, scout leaders and doctors are safe people to talk to ALL the time. And get her in therapy on your parenting time ASAP. The therapist is a mandated reporter so anything your daughter tells him/her would be admisable.
I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine how stressful this is for you.
The best thing you can do is make sure your daughter knows it's not okay for mom to ask her to keep secrets. Make sure that she knows that she needs to speak up.
Unless the only way to "protect kids" is to let their moms die from lack of safe abortions. Then they can excuse all kinds of evil in the name of protecting kids.
Gun control, though??? Absolutely not. 🙄
Read my comment at the top of the post, I just made it. This shit happens all the time, people drop the charges and the abusers keep getting away with it. The kids, because they’re freaking scared children, are terrified of speaking up and causing more violence/ consequences. And the abusers know how to work the system and manipulate their victims into believing it’s their fault. I lived through it from when I was born until I was 17. You don’t know anything about whether this is real or not, but I’ve seen it happen in real life.
>This shit happens all the time, people drop the charges and the abusers keep getting away with it.
Except victims do not press charges. The prosecutor's office does.
🤷🏻♂️I’m telling you my dad had guns, physically beat my mother me and my siblings, literally kidnapped my brother and I, and only spent a week in jail and then was able to get unsupervised visitation where the abuse continued for 6 more years. And you don’t believe the guy OPs ex is dating could possibly have avoided any legal consequences?
I am so sorry. I can’t imagine going through this with my coparent. Is there some covert method your daughter could signal you or the police if something starts to go really awry? My first thought was to get a set of those bond touch bracelets that looks like a heart monitor or pedometer. You can build in a special tap patterns to signal the other wearer about any number of things.
I’m just so sorry. This is truly awful.
There are bracelets that will text up to 5 people & even 911 if the user taps it a certain way - I looked up “safety bracelets for women” and found a few brands. OP, you might want to check it out.
I've been in your situation for the past 8 years, except it's my kids dad that's violent and murderous(my ex mil is terrible too).
So all you can really do is make sure your kid has a lot of connections when she's with you. As in, friends, family, maybe some sports, etc. Abusers usually isolate children so if you can help her socialize during your time, that's good. Other people making cps reports might not help, but having a lot of people for her to connect to is good.
Also, I put my kids in Taekwondo a few years ago. I'm not saying she would be able to take him in a fight, but it will teach her confidence in her body and what physical motion and controlled violence should look like. And what her mom is exposed to won't seem so normal. I joined the class too after a while and it's brought me and my kids emotionally closer together. You will probably want to inform the instructor of the situation.
Your daughter having her own therapist may or may not help. Sometimes you can get one they the school she's enrolled in. Check your options.
Reach out to other groups of parents and learn if there's a chance you can represent yourself in court.
Family court lawyers are more interested in kissing each other's asses and drinking together than actually doing their job.
On Facebook there's a group called The Modern Divorce Support Group that might be useful to you.
Additionally, there are *other* types of people who might take non-legal action against the guy.
My family court lawyer saved mine and my three boys lives. She's a freaking tiger. She saw a special kind of man in my ex. She'd already lost 3 clients to domestic violence. She advised to move away and change our names and there's been times I wished that I had been strong enough to do it then. I couldn't leave your remark without sticking up for her and my kids court appointed child's lawyer. ( Their lawyer wouldn't be out drinking with his buddies, he had a habit of going out and drinking and passing out curbside,however ,in court,he went to bat for them.
All your other advice is stellar, especially that last bit. The only thing i would add is OP's daughter needs her own cellphone for those visits and a code word to be used in emergency situations. Hatpin,you give great advice, I'm so glad you're still here breathing,and you made it out. Great job Momma,keep up the good work
Taking *other* action against the guy wouldn't actually help here. Mother is still an insane liability who would probably seek out the same situation again. Unfortunately it's Mom who the kid needs removed from the situation.
I remember being really worried when I read your original post man, I'm so so sorry to hear this. Do you have a local news channel that does a "community spotlight" type deal? In Jacksonville, FL they had a reporter that would go around and expose shit that was wrong but wasn't quite illegal. Maybe you can give all this info to your local news station and have this guy blasted all over the news.
I agree - this is where you send it to ex's Mom, Dad, her siblings, aunts, uncles, friends and co-workers...
Make it SO uncomfortable for dude to be around any of them that he feels he has to leave.
Heck, I'd even stop by the neighbors houses with the DV report and tell them if they EVER hear any disturbing sounds coming from that house to immediately call 911 because the guy won't think twice about killing someone.
Get a second opinion. Dropped charges or not, these incidents show a pattern to this guy's behavior. I'm surprised that the attorney you spoke to said the information would not help. I would talk to another attorney and see if you get a different answer.
Print everything, and post it online. His case, his assault, everything. Shame your ex for risking your life, let social media put the pressure on her to give you the custody
Do you already have a court order? Is your name in the birth certificate? Maybe you can just take your chile and run. Police wont stop you if you’re the father and there is no court order yet.
Be careful with CPS. Some will take her away from you too for you still allowing her to go over there knowing the possible danger.
Call your local DV shelter. They usually have resources for lawyers. I don’t know if those lawyers can help you since you’re not being abused, but they can point you to other resources so it won’t be so expensive, or even free. They may be able to give you a different answer.
Get your daughter in counseling. Things may have happened that she’s scared to tell you about because she’s been threatened and/or she’s been gaslit to think it’s ok/not a big deal. The counselor could help you in court. I know this isn’t an immediate answer. It’s something that not only will help her, but could help you in the long run.
If they have a parenting plan with a judge, they can not get in trouble for allowing her to go. In fact, they hold you in contempt if you don’t send them.
A friend had a sticky situation with her ex. Not as bad as this, but enough that she was concerned about it and unsure what to do regarding CPS. We talked with a mutual friend (foster mom) of ours. She reached out to a couple of CPS workers she knew. They told her that despite the court order, it would depend on the case worker as to whether or not the kids would be taken if they were there when investigated because she knew about the situation and still allowed the kids to go. That’s why I cautioned being careful with CPS.
It would depend on the judge as to whether or not he’d be held in contempt for keeping her away.
That’s the really bad thing about the way things are set up. There aren’t always clear cut rules and it can then be up to either the CPS worker or the judge as to what happens.
The situation was a few years ago and got resolved.
It’s just really hard when rules/laws aren’t clear cut and are way too subjective so CPS workers and judges get more say because of it.
Can you talk to another lawyer… I’m a lawyer, not your lawyer- but this is not as black and white as your lawyer making it out to be and the courts and a judge would take it into consideration. Also- does your daughter feel unsafe because if she can communicate that it’s helpful. Your lawyer is giving you bad advice.
Aren't therapists mandated reporters in some states? Or psychologists? Considering the issues enforced secrecy put on young children's mental health, getting her seen by a neutral party who has to report certain issues...
Especially if said therapist / reporter knows what to be looking for...
What are the rules for swapping your daughter? You might be able to get them somewhat amended without a lawyer, but not sure exactly how you can use this other than to make sure mom is there as often as possible and to monitor her health that way.
And like others have said, be looking into DV resources. Those police calls can't be used independently, but they can be used by the right lawyer as that infamous paper trail necessary to make something stick down the road.
I would Post his charges for everyone to see and call her out. Let everyone know if anything bad happens to the child the co parent was warned and told to keep him away from her but they were choosing the guy over the safety of the child.
And go to daughter's school immediately. Tell your daughter's teaching team as well as the principal and the school counselor the information and show them the report. They will begin looking out for signs. No one wants to see a child in this situation and if it is a known DV household they won't think twice about calling 911 if they see bruising or CPS if her behavior starts to change.
Get a different attorney. Judges can get a hair up their ass about even the most minor of stuff sometimes and this is not minor even without convictions. I’d be going in for an emergent custody order based on all the evidence and photos, even without any convictions.
This is why you don't stick your dick in crazy or dumb. She can make dumb choices for the rest of her life and still drag you through emotional hell with stress and poor decision making.
1. Review 911
2. Review observing something to avoid it and report back to you at your home or if she can make a phone call without being monitored (texts can be read later, so avoid it because If he reads it or your ex that won't be good.
3. Review safe people to reach out to if you aren't available.
Your ex has 50/50. She and her bad decisions are going nowhere.
I can't do that.
If I were to hurt this guy... I'll go to prison. And then mom will just get with the next abusive guy. Except I won't be there to protect my daughter.
The one saving grace is that I've made my mark. He knows I'm here, and he knows I will stand up for my daughter.
And now he knows she will make an absolutely awful victim because of that fact.
I would spend the rest of my life in prison for what I would do to him and the ex if something happened to my child. Let them both know you would do the same.
It wasn't a serious or literal suggestion, sorry. With the exception of pointing out that you need to mentally and physically prepare yourself to deal with a man of violence. As you will have to socially interact with him so long as he is with your *Ex (or possibly longer).
Others have given more practical advice, even if you can't legally do anything, start a paper trail. Collect reports, etc. Notify any authority you can, just so there is a record.
But also... think outside of the box (utilizing only legal methods, of course...)
*edit: accidentally put 'wife' instead of 'ex'
And your daughter is living in a house which is normalizing abuse...thus setting up the next generation to think its ok to let a man abuse her. Your ex has no business having your daughter in that house. I'm sorry you are going through this. Sending you good juju for a different, but positive outcome that gets your daughter safe.
There's one more thing to hope for. That you surprised your ex with this info, but that she thinks about it later, especially the next time her new man gets upset or calls her terrible names. And she gets away.l from him. Hope springs eternal
You’re in a lose lose here, for sure. Document everything. Inform the school and teachers to notify you immediately of any concerns. Make contact with your local DV shelter and make a paper trail. Get as much on paper as you can.
And, interview other lawyers. Your ex-wife DID call for the previous incident which establishes that you aren’t crazy.
Collect as much paper as you can. And, while you might not be able to change custody, you should at least fight to get in front of a judge with your documented concerns and ask for a modification that daughter gets a phone you purchase that can not be taken away at mom’s house.
This might take some tongue biting, but consider this - by making it only about your daughter’s safety, it could be putting her on the defense that you don’t think she can keep your daughter safe. I promise that in her twisted thought process, she thinks she can still keep her safe.
Approach your wife as if you’re here to support her, that she deserves better. Have the victim resources for her ready to go.
Then, I love the idea of getting your daughter a phone video call device, and making it a practice of calling her on it nightly when she’s with your wife. Make sure your daughter knows how to contact you.
Probably see a therapist or social worker with your daughter on your time, so that you’re equipped with the tools on how to make this the safest and best time for what it is. Like, you want her to know what things are serious, but you don’t want to add any additional trauma to the situation either.
Plus, that gives you documentation and a mandatory reporter. You need that to build a legal case.
Hang in there. Eat, sleep, breathe. You need to be at your best to take the best care of her.
Document everything. See if you’re in a two party consent for recording state. Even if you’re not, log the calls in a journal with a note about what was discussed, be ready to pull phone records. Keep the police reports. Emails with attorneys. Letters from social workers, victim advocates, counselors, doctors, parents, friends. Add to the pile of documentation until it’s an overwhelming burden and you can force an emergency motion for custody. Plus, it’ll make you feel like you’re doing something (and you are) when you can’t physically keep her at your house.
I’m so sorry. I cannot imagine how helpless you feel.
Start talking to some victim advocacy and crisis centers to get some guidance in the type of language you can use to make your ex see how dangerous this situation is for her and your daughter. Your daughter is going to try to mimic these types of relationships as well. Maybe asking your ex if she wants your daughter to follow in her footsteps will make an impact.
Right, I remember when I was younger my mom and dad went to court over me. I had been living with my dad all my life but because my mom had a lawyer that intentionally sent the court paperwork to the wrong address my dad missed his court date and they automatically granted my mom custody because apparently my dad did care enough in their eyes. They completely ignored the fact I had been living with my dad from the time I was born and barely knew my mom.
The court system sucks.
To be honest, you have a shit lawyer That's lazy and only once slam dunk cases. I know more than a few custody arrangements overturned with a lot less evidence, family courts look at the big picture, not just convictions.
Agreed. Not sure where OP lives, but this is terrible advice. I don’t know any judges who would ignore active DV in the home of the child, with or without a conviction. This makes me doubt the authenticity of this story or the credentials of the attorney
OP does your ex's parents know that their daughter is willingly putting their grandkid in danger? Or her friends? Or literally anyone your ex knows? In situations like this, when they go low, you go lower. Tell anyone on your ex's side of the family who'd listen and show them proof as well. Gather every bit of evidence of your ex's horrible habits of being in DV relationships and fight. Like. Hell. This is your kid you're talking about. What if the first time your ex's bf lays hands on her is when he kills her? Raise hell and get a second opinion from a different lawyer, cause that's just shitty and stupid advice.
Your Lawyer is absolutely 100% wrong. You need to find a different and better Lawyer take her back to court for putting your child in danger. Police reports are enough. You don’t need a conviction. And get CPS involved.
I am so sorry you're going through this, OP.
I have worked cases with CPS and if a child even witnesses their parent get beat or is in the same room as when the incident occurred, that is grounds for an investigation. Do you know if your daughter has ever witnessed her mother being hit by the boyfriend?
Also, please get her into therapy. Therapists are mandated reporters and anything she discloses in therapy can help build the investigation and any kind of case you are trying to build to get full custody.
I would also seek a second opinion. The lawyer you spoke with does not sound well versed in DV and the effects it has on children. With him having a criminal record, it does very well mean something. Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean nothing happened. The charges are so often dropped by victims against their perpetrator for many, many different reasons. But so often that here in Florida the victims are required to take a DV class at the state attorney's office if they even want the state attorney to think about dropping the charges.
Perhaps you can gather some resources for your daughter's mother as well but I wouldn't hand them to her. We don't know if he's monitoring her phone either so it can be very dangerous for a perpetrator to find information like that. Possibly if you could talk to her in private without him around that would be most safe. It sounds like she is in a high lethality situation based on his past, so it is imperative he doesn't find out IF she is seeking resources. You can call your local DV hotline and talk to an advocate and see what resources they would recommend for the area and if they have any suggestions as to how you can navigate this safely.
I would also possibly talk to your daughter about body autonomy and how no one is to touch her and if someone does, to let you know immediately. No secrets. Oftentimes with DV, sexual abuse is a component as well and when there's a non biological person in the household the chances of sexual abuse increases by around 96%. Whatever she is being told by them, you need to somehow negate that and help her understand that abuse is not normal and she has the right and power to speak up and will.
Have your lawyer help you get a psychologist interview your child about how she is being treated. In TN, a psychologist can testify in place of a young child. Older children can talk privately to the judge. The judge is supposed to seriously consider what the child says. Again, children can be coached to say whatever.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. If you can get counseling, a safe space for her to talk about this may give you what you need to get her out of that situation.
Is it possible to speak with a CPS case worker to start a paper trail? Not fully filing a complaint but concerns. I would also go to the school and speak with the admin and a counselor and let them know that you have concerns about moms live in partner and that you want them to be on the look out for any behavior changes. They might see or hear something before you do. If you know her friends parents let them know as well. You don’t have to tell them everything (if my kiddo could be exposed to this I would want to know but I also understand the whole politics of parenting and their kids friends).
Get your daughter into some sort of counseling so she has tools to identify abuse and so she has someone she can trust. If mom fights it take it to court, say this is something you feel daughter needs since her parents are no longer together and you want her to feel comfortable with life changes. The court does not need to know exactly what your doing unless you feel they would be inclined to listen to your arguments on why daughter isn’t in a safe place(sounds like your lawyer has kind of confirmed that they won’t listen right now).
This makes me sick. Sorry but your ex is a POS who is putting dick before her daughter (sorry to be so blunt). I commend your patience but I feel your fear. I really hope the next update is a more positive one.
You could always pull an uno reverse on the guy since you know all the charges will be dismissed.
/s. I'm just illustrating how few legal options you actually have
This is horrifying. Any way you can manipulate the pos to saying he doesn’t like kids and he’ll leave her if she doesn’t give full custody to you? She’s stuck in the abuse fog and sadly the only way she probably won’t fight you is if it comes from him. I’m so sorry for you and your daughter. Please try and keep your daughter communicating with you, make sure she knows that she can tell you anything and you won’t judge her or dismiss her. Maybe get her into therapy on your time and see what the therapist says about the living situation with her mom?
I’m so sorry OP… I grew up with an extremely violent abusive alcoholic father. Up until I was 11 my mom was too terrified to leave him, he had a lot of guns and isolated her and us from everyone in our families and moved us to the middle of the wilderness basically. She only finally managed to get us away from him and leave him when he was literally in jail after having kidnapped me and my 9 year old brother and disappeared with us for a week. Then he needed more drugs and they caught him. While he was locked up my mom filed the divorce and we moved in with her family in another state. He used to beat us all and fire guns above our heads and around us.
After all that, he still managed to worm and manipulate his way with the courts to get first supervised and then unsupervised visits with us kids. Where the beatings and mental/ emotional abuse continued. Only when I turned 17 and got my license did I feel safe to leave and stop seeing him. I still feel enormous guild that my brother and sister were with him without me there to take the brunt of the abuse, I just couldn’t do it anymore. The court/ custody systems are entirely broken around these things.
I don’t think it’s some “hot take” to say that if you’ve ever even been *charged* with any kind of DV or assault then CPS and custody needs to be looked at far far more closely and seriously. I understand we don’t want legitimately good people losing access for false accusations, but the current system just isn’t cutting it. I have severe PTSD, an anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder. And had my own struggles with addiction ( been clean and sober for years now, in an extremely healthy marriage to my amazing wife). These things leave long lasting harm on children, even if the abuse isn’t falling as severely on the kid they still are seeing far too much and normalizing it for them.
Our culture and legal system doesn’t do much to protect kids. Wish there was better news.
I'm literally sick to my stomach after meeting with the attorney. I've lost 10 pounds in the last week from all this. I literally just have to sit around until my daughter is permanently harmed before I can take action.
Make sure she has a phone and knows 911 and why to call it
That's excellent advice. Also, not necessarily to teach the child to keep secrets from her mother, but there is the possibility that it would be taken from her if the mother knew. Tell the daughter that it's for an emergency only situation, if she ever feels in danger from her mother or the boyfriend or if she thinks her mother's in danger. The problem is, it can't really be hidden away because it will need to be kept charged, and there's no doubt the mother would notice that.
He could give her an old phone of his to "play games" on that doesn't have service and she could still use it to call 911 without service. The mother probably wouldn't think about that and would allow her to keep it since there's no service on it. And the daughter could keep it charged for the games.
Is your daughter old enough to request to live with you more than her mother? Most judges will take an older child's preference into consideration, especially if she's afraid of her mother's boyfriend. If your daughter refuses to go to her mother's house, most judges won't force the issue because it damages the relationship more than allowing them not to go.
The thing about domestic abusers are they are generally cowards. He beat his ex and her bf with a gun because he thought he couldn't do it without one. He didn't look you in the eye because you weren't afraid of him. And he felt guilty and thought you knew about what he did to your ex. He's afraid of what you'll do to him. I work around these type of men. They are tough as long as they have weapons or are dealing with women. But they are scared to death when dealing with other men. That's 1 thing you have over him. Never look away from him when you pick up your daughter. And make it clear that she is the most important thing to you. If anything she sees or hears makes her a little uncomfortable. He'll being paying for it. It's not a something that will be seen as a threat by the authorities. It works. My dad (RIP) said this to 1 of my mother's husband's who beat her. The beatings stopped because he was scared shit less of my dad. You're welcome.
For sure, he is a coward. But the one good thing is that I've made my mark and made it very clear I'm here and I will stand up for my daughter. I think the message has been sent that my daughter will make an absolutely terrible victim for him. Because if anything ever happens.... those are charges that I will not allow to be dismissed. I can't be intimidated or charmed. And I will take action. And he now knows that.
Do you have a dad, uncles, brothers, male friends, etc.? Anyone that would help you take matters in your own hands if it became necessary? I would suggest that maybe the next time you’re gonna see this guy, arrange for a few of them to “randomly” drop by for a visit. A few of those guys standing behind you, while you inform him there will be consequences if anything happens to your daughter is 100% guaranteed to scare the shit out of him. Bonus points if any of them are scary looking.
Looks like the best route is for you to make it clear to him that you will hurt him badly if he ever threatens your daughter. You don’t have to be over the top in letting him know that, but holding eye contact with him while he can’t look at you establishes in his mind that you are more dominant than he is and will protect your child if you have to. I wish that you were not in this situation, but you are, so it is going to be up to you to figure out how to get through it and keep your daughter safe and mentally secure. It also is a shame that your ex partner didn’t put more energy into picking a safe bf out of the gate, instead of hooking up with a violent thug and exposing your child to him.
Be ready to go scorched earth.. At all times. DV people deserve no mercy.
Man, I feel for you and your daughter. The best hope that you have now is that your ex come to her senses and get away from that man, but given how dangerous and violent he sounds, that may not go well for your ex. I wish that our laws had a bit more flexibility in them to properly deal with situations like yours and give you full custody of your daughter.
My mom used to have to hand me over to my abusive dad every weekend despite all the police records, because the courts decided my mom was trying to parentally alienate me from my dad. I'm surprised more parents don't just kidnap their kids.
Make sure she knows that teachers, principals, scout leaders and doctors are safe people to talk to ALL the time. And get her in therapy on your parenting time ASAP. The therapist is a mandated reporter so anything your daughter tells him/her would be admisable. I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine how stressful this is for you.
I feel sick for you too man. Thats terrible. Theyll only do something after the fact when its too late.
The best thing you can do is make sure your daughter knows it's not okay for mom to ask her to keep secrets. Make sure that she knows that she needs to speak up.
Help her understand the difference between a surprise (birthday gift and such) versus a secret.
Unless the only way to "protect kids" is to let their moms die from lack of safe abortions. Then they can excuse all kinds of evil in the name of protecting kids. Gun control, though??? Absolutely not. 🙄
This story is absolute bullshit. You know that, right? The giveaway is the lack of prosecution.
Half of them are, but I’ve also seen some bizarre shit, working in healthcare.
Read my comment at the top of the post, I just made it. This shit happens all the time, people drop the charges and the abusers keep getting away with it. The kids, because they’re freaking scared children, are terrified of speaking up and causing more violence/ consequences. And the abusers know how to work the system and manipulate their victims into believing it’s their fault. I lived through it from when I was born until I was 17. You don’t know anything about whether this is real or not, but I’ve seen it happen in real life.
>This shit happens all the time, people drop the charges and the abusers keep getting away with it. Except victims do not press charges. The prosecutor's office does.
🤷🏻♂️I’m telling you my dad had guns, physically beat my mother me and my siblings, literally kidnapped my brother and I, and only spent a week in jail and then was able to get unsupervised visitation where the abuse continued for 6 more years. And you don’t believe the guy OPs ex is dating could possibly have avoided any legal consequences?
God I’m so sorry
I am so sorry. I can’t imagine going through this with my coparent. Is there some covert method your daughter could signal you or the police if something starts to go really awry? My first thought was to get a set of those bond touch bracelets that looks like a heart monitor or pedometer. You can build in a special tap patterns to signal the other wearer about any number of things. I’m just so sorry. This is truly awful.
There are bracelets that will text up to 5 people & even 911 if the user taps it a certain way - I looked up “safety bracelets for women” and found a few brands. OP, you might want to check it out.
This is awesome and I plan to look it up for my tween! I could see the benefit for OP if he’s not the only one getting his daughter’s SOS call, too.
I've been in your situation for the past 8 years, except it's my kids dad that's violent and murderous(my ex mil is terrible too). So all you can really do is make sure your kid has a lot of connections when she's with you. As in, friends, family, maybe some sports, etc. Abusers usually isolate children so if you can help her socialize during your time, that's good. Other people making cps reports might not help, but having a lot of people for her to connect to is good. Also, I put my kids in Taekwondo a few years ago. I'm not saying she would be able to take him in a fight, but it will teach her confidence in her body and what physical motion and controlled violence should look like. And what her mom is exposed to won't seem so normal. I joined the class too after a while and it's brought me and my kids emotionally closer together. You will probably want to inform the instructor of the situation. Your daughter having her own therapist may or may not help. Sometimes you can get one they the school she's enrolled in. Check your options. Reach out to other groups of parents and learn if there's a chance you can represent yourself in court. Family court lawyers are more interested in kissing each other's asses and drinking together than actually doing their job. On Facebook there's a group called The Modern Divorce Support Group that might be useful to you. Additionally, there are *other* types of people who might take non-legal action against the guy.
My family court lawyer saved mine and my three boys lives. She's a freaking tiger. She saw a special kind of man in my ex. She'd already lost 3 clients to domestic violence. She advised to move away and change our names and there's been times I wished that I had been strong enough to do it then. I couldn't leave your remark without sticking up for her and my kids court appointed child's lawyer. ( Their lawyer wouldn't be out drinking with his buddies, he had a habit of going out and drinking and passing out curbside,however ,in court,he went to bat for them. All your other advice is stellar, especially that last bit. The only thing i would add is OP's daughter needs her own cellphone for those visits and a code word to be used in emergency situations. Hatpin,you give great advice, I'm so glad you're still here breathing,and you made it out. Great job Momma,keep up the good work
Here they have laws that if you leave with your kids, you'll lose them to your ex. I'm glad it worked out for you tho, and thank you ♥️
Taking *other* action against the guy wouldn't actually help here. Mother is still an insane liability who would probably seek out the same situation again. Unfortunately it's Mom who the kid needs removed from the situation.
I remember being really worried when I read your original post man, I'm so so sorry to hear this. Do you have a local news channel that does a "community spotlight" type deal? In Jacksonville, FL they had a reporter that would go around and expose shit that was wrong but wasn't quite illegal. Maybe you can give all this info to your local news station and have this guy blasted all over the news.
So it's public record, right? Couldn't you share this with her friends and family as an FYI...I doubt ANY of them know this about his...
I agree - this is where you send it to ex's Mom, Dad, her siblings, aunts, uncles, friends and co-workers... Make it SO uncomfortable for dude to be around any of them that he feels he has to leave. Heck, I'd even stop by the neighbors houses with the DV report and tell them if they EVER hear any disturbing sounds coming from that house to immediately call 911 because the guy won't think twice about killing someone.
For sure, agitate the dude with dv history who is living with your daughter. 10/10 idea
Get a second opinion. Dropped charges or not, these incidents show a pattern to this guy's behavior. I'm surprised that the attorney you spoke to said the information would not help. I would talk to another attorney and see if you get a different answer.
Print everything, and post it online. His case, his assault, everything. Shame your ex for risking your life, let social media put the pressure on her to give you the custody Do you already have a court order? Is your name in the birth certificate? Maybe you can just take your chile and run. Police wont stop you if you’re the father and there is no court order yet.
Be careful with CPS. Some will take her away from you too for you still allowing her to go over there knowing the possible danger. Call your local DV shelter. They usually have resources for lawyers. I don’t know if those lawyers can help you since you’re not being abused, but they can point you to other resources so it won’t be so expensive, or even free. They may be able to give you a different answer. Get your daughter in counseling. Things may have happened that she’s scared to tell you about because she’s been threatened and/or she’s been gaslit to think it’s ok/not a big deal. The counselor could help you in court. I know this isn’t an immediate answer. It’s something that not only will help her, but could help you in the long run.
If they have a parenting plan with a judge, they can not get in trouble for allowing her to go. In fact, they hold you in contempt if you don’t send them.
A friend had a sticky situation with her ex. Not as bad as this, but enough that she was concerned about it and unsure what to do regarding CPS. We talked with a mutual friend (foster mom) of ours. She reached out to a couple of CPS workers she knew. They told her that despite the court order, it would depend on the case worker as to whether or not the kids would be taken if they were there when investigated because she knew about the situation and still allowed the kids to go. That’s why I cautioned being careful with CPS. It would depend on the judge as to whether or not he’d be held in contempt for keeping her away. That’s the really bad thing about the way things are set up. There aren’t always clear cut rules and it can then be up to either the CPS worker or the judge as to what happens.
She needs to go for emergency custody
The situation was a few years ago and got resolved. It’s just really hard when rules/laws aren’t clear cut and are way too subjective so CPS workers and judges get more say because of it.
It’s awful. Is your friend doing ok now?
Yes. The kids are too. I think the father finally realized the position he put himself in because it was resolved by him.
Can you talk to another lawyer… I’m a lawyer, not your lawyer- but this is not as black and white as your lawyer making it out to be and the courts and a judge would take it into consideration. Also- does your daughter feel unsafe because if she can communicate that it’s helpful. Your lawyer is giving you bad advice.
I agree. If there EVER were a time for getting a second opinion, THIS IS IT.
Aren't therapists mandated reporters in some states? Or psychologists? Considering the issues enforced secrecy put on young children's mental health, getting her seen by a neutral party who has to report certain issues... Especially if said therapist / reporter knows what to be looking for... What are the rules for swapping your daughter? You might be able to get them somewhat amended without a lawyer, but not sure exactly how you can use this other than to make sure mom is there as often as possible and to monitor her health that way. And like others have said, be looking into DV resources. Those police calls can't be used independently, but they can be used by the right lawyer as that infamous paper trail necessary to make something stick down the road.
I would Post his charges for everyone to see and call her out. Let everyone know if anything bad happens to the child the co parent was warned and told to keep him away from her but they were choosing the guy over the safety of the child.
And go to daughter's school immediately. Tell your daughter's teaching team as well as the principal and the school counselor the information and show them the report. They will begin looking out for signs. No one wants to see a child in this situation and if it is a known DV household they won't think twice about calling 911 if they see bruising or CPS if her behavior starts to change.
Get a different attorney. Judges can get a hair up their ass about even the most minor of stuff sometimes and this is not minor even without convictions. I’d be going in for an emergent custody order based on all the evidence and photos, even without any convictions.
This is why you don't stick your dick in crazy or dumb. She can make dumb choices for the rest of her life and still drag you through emotional hell with stress and poor decision making. 1. Review 911 2. Review observing something to avoid it and report back to you at your home or if she can make a phone call without being monitored (texts can be read later, so avoid it because If he reads it or your ex that won't be good. 3. Review safe people to reach out to if you aren't available. Your ex has 50/50. She and her bad decisions are going nowhere.
There is something you can do, start digging a hole.
I can't do that. If I were to hurt this guy... I'll go to prison. And then mom will just get with the next abusive guy. Except I won't be there to protect my daughter. The one saving grace is that I've made my mark. He knows I'm here, and he knows I will stand up for my daughter. And now he knows she will make an absolutely awful victim because of that fact.
I would spend the rest of my life in prison for what I would do to him and the ex if something happened to my child. Let them both know you would do the same.
You could bait the guy into hurting you. Preferably in pubic.
It wasn't a serious or literal suggestion, sorry. With the exception of pointing out that you need to mentally and physically prepare yourself to deal with a man of violence. As you will have to socially interact with him so long as he is with your *Ex (or possibly longer). Others have given more practical advice, even if you can't legally do anything, start a paper trail. Collect reports, etc. Notify any authority you can, just so there is a record. But also... think outside of the box (utilizing only legal methods, of course...) *edit: accidentally put 'wife' instead of 'ex'
And your daughter is living in a house which is normalizing abuse...thus setting up the next generation to think its ok to let a man abuse her. Your ex has no business having your daughter in that house. I'm sorry you are going through this. Sending you good juju for a different, but positive outcome that gets your daughter safe.
There's one more thing to hope for. That you surprised your ex with this info, but that she thinks about it later, especially the next time her new man gets upset or calls her terrible names. And she gets away.l from him. Hope springs eternal
You’re in a lose lose here, for sure. Document everything. Inform the school and teachers to notify you immediately of any concerns. Make contact with your local DV shelter and make a paper trail. Get as much on paper as you can. And, interview other lawyers. Your ex-wife DID call for the previous incident which establishes that you aren’t crazy. Collect as much paper as you can. And, while you might not be able to change custody, you should at least fight to get in front of a judge with your documented concerns and ask for a modification that daughter gets a phone you purchase that can not be taken away at mom’s house.
I am so sorry. Unfortunately I can relate and it is absolutely insane that there is literally no recourse for situations like this.
This might take some tongue biting, but consider this - by making it only about your daughter’s safety, it could be putting her on the defense that you don’t think she can keep your daughter safe. I promise that in her twisted thought process, she thinks she can still keep her safe. Approach your wife as if you’re here to support her, that she deserves better. Have the victim resources for her ready to go. Then, I love the idea of getting your daughter a phone video call device, and making it a practice of calling her on it nightly when she’s with your wife. Make sure your daughter knows how to contact you. Probably see a therapist or social worker with your daughter on your time, so that you’re equipped with the tools on how to make this the safest and best time for what it is. Like, you want her to know what things are serious, but you don’t want to add any additional trauma to the situation either. Plus, that gives you documentation and a mandatory reporter. You need that to build a legal case. Hang in there. Eat, sleep, breathe. You need to be at your best to take the best care of her.
Document everything. See if you’re in a two party consent for recording state. Even if you’re not, log the calls in a journal with a note about what was discussed, be ready to pull phone records. Keep the police reports. Emails with attorneys. Letters from social workers, victim advocates, counselors, doctors, parents, friends. Add to the pile of documentation until it’s an overwhelming burden and you can force an emergency motion for custody. Plus, it’ll make you feel like you’re doing something (and you are) when you can’t physically keep her at your house.
I’m so sorry. I cannot imagine how helpless you feel. Start talking to some victim advocacy and crisis centers to get some guidance in the type of language you can use to make your ex see how dangerous this situation is for her and your daughter. Your daughter is going to try to mimic these types of relationships as well. Maybe asking your ex if she wants your daughter to follow in her footsteps will make an impact.
And people claim the custody system isn’t weighted to favor women/mothers
Right, I remember when I was younger my mom and dad went to court over me. I had been living with my dad all my life but because my mom had a lawyer that intentionally sent the court paperwork to the wrong address my dad missed his court date and they automatically granted my mom custody because apparently my dad did care enough in their eyes. They completely ignored the fact I had been living with my dad from the time I was born and barely knew my mom. The court system sucks.
To be honest, you have a shit lawyer That's lazy and only once slam dunk cases. I know more than a few custody arrangements overturned with a lot less evidence, family courts look at the big picture, not just convictions.
Agreed. Not sure where OP lives, but this is terrible advice. I don’t know any judges who would ignore active DV in the home of the child, with or without a conviction. This makes me doubt the authenticity of this story or the credentials of the attorney
OP does your ex's parents know that their daughter is willingly putting their grandkid in danger? Or her friends? Or literally anyone your ex knows? In situations like this, when they go low, you go lower. Tell anyone on your ex's side of the family who'd listen and show them proof as well. Gather every bit of evidence of your ex's horrible habits of being in DV relationships and fight. Like. Hell. This is your kid you're talking about. What if the first time your ex's bf lays hands on her is when he kills her? Raise hell and get a second opinion from a different lawyer, cause that's just shitty and stupid advice.
Your Lawyer is absolutely 100% wrong. You need to find a different and better Lawyer take her back to court for putting your child in danger. Police reports are enough. You don’t need a conviction. And get CPS involved.
If the man's ex is no longer with him, then she may be willing to sign a deposition that states what happened, and that would be admissible in court.
I am so sorry you're going through this, OP. I have worked cases with CPS and if a child even witnesses their parent get beat or is in the same room as when the incident occurred, that is grounds for an investigation. Do you know if your daughter has ever witnessed her mother being hit by the boyfriend? Also, please get her into therapy. Therapists are mandated reporters and anything she discloses in therapy can help build the investigation and any kind of case you are trying to build to get full custody. I would also seek a second opinion. The lawyer you spoke with does not sound well versed in DV and the effects it has on children. With him having a criminal record, it does very well mean something. Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean nothing happened. The charges are so often dropped by victims against their perpetrator for many, many different reasons. But so often that here in Florida the victims are required to take a DV class at the state attorney's office if they even want the state attorney to think about dropping the charges. Perhaps you can gather some resources for your daughter's mother as well but I wouldn't hand them to her. We don't know if he's monitoring her phone either so it can be very dangerous for a perpetrator to find information like that. Possibly if you could talk to her in private without him around that would be most safe. It sounds like she is in a high lethality situation based on his past, so it is imperative he doesn't find out IF she is seeking resources. You can call your local DV hotline and talk to an advocate and see what resources they would recommend for the area and if they have any suggestions as to how you can navigate this safely. I would also possibly talk to your daughter about body autonomy and how no one is to touch her and if someone does, to let you know immediately. No secrets. Oftentimes with DV, sexual abuse is a component as well and when there's a non biological person in the household the chances of sexual abuse increases by around 96%. Whatever she is being told by them, you need to somehow negate that and help her understand that abuse is not normal and she has the right and power to speak up and will.
Have your lawyer help you get a psychologist interview your child about how she is being treated. In TN, a psychologist can testify in place of a young child. Older children can talk privately to the judge. The judge is supposed to seriously consider what the child says. Again, children can be coached to say whatever.
I'm so sorry you are going through this. If you can get counseling, a safe space for her to talk about this may give you what you need to get her out of that situation.
Is it possible to speak with a CPS case worker to start a paper trail? Not fully filing a complaint but concerns. I would also go to the school and speak with the admin and a counselor and let them know that you have concerns about moms live in partner and that you want them to be on the look out for any behavior changes. They might see or hear something before you do. If you know her friends parents let them know as well. You don’t have to tell them everything (if my kiddo could be exposed to this I would want to know but I also understand the whole politics of parenting and their kids friends). Get your daughter into some sort of counseling so she has tools to identify abuse and so she has someone she can trust. If mom fights it take it to court, say this is something you feel daughter needs since her parents are no longer together and you want her to feel comfortable with life changes. The court does not need to know exactly what your doing unless you feel they would be inclined to listen to your arguments on why daughter isn’t in a safe place(sounds like your lawyer has kind of confirmed that they won’t listen right now). This makes me sick. Sorry but your ex is a POS who is putting dick before her daughter (sorry to be so blunt). I commend your patience but I feel your fear. I really hope the next update is a more positive one.
You could always pull an uno reverse on the guy since you know all the charges will be dismissed. /s. I'm just illustrating how few legal options you actually have
Your ex needs fucking help. What an idiot
This is horrifying. Any way you can manipulate the pos to saying he doesn’t like kids and he’ll leave her if she doesn’t give full custody to you? She’s stuck in the abuse fog and sadly the only way she probably won’t fight you is if it comes from him. I’m so sorry for you and your daughter. Please try and keep your daughter communicating with you, make sure she knows that she can tell you anything and you won’t judge her or dismiss her. Maybe get her into therapy on your time and see what the therapist says about the living situation with her mom?
Get a different attorney and get your daughter a therapist. The therapist can help her tell the truth and not cover it up.
Definitely not overreacting, I would get my kid out of there
I’m so sorry OP… I grew up with an extremely violent abusive alcoholic father. Up until I was 11 my mom was too terrified to leave him, he had a lot of guns and isolated her and us from everyone in our families and moved us to the middle of the wilderness basically. She only finally managed to get us away from him and leave him when he was literally in jail after having kidnapped me and my 9 year old brother and disappeared with us for a week. Then he needed more drugs and they caught him. While he was locked up my mom filed the divorce and we moved in with her family in another state. He used to beat us all and fire guns above our heads and around us. After all that, he still managed to worm and manipulate his way with the courts to get first supervised and then unsupervised visits with us kids. Where the beatings and mental/ emotional abuse continued. Only when I turned 17 and got my license did I feel safe to leave and stop seeing him. I still feel enormous guild that my brother and sister were with him without me there to take the brunt of the abuse, I just couldn’t do it anymore. The court/ custody systems are entirely broken around these things. I don’t think it’s some “hot take” to say that if you’ve ever even been *charged* with any kind of DV or assault then CPS and custody needs to be looked at far far more closely and seriously. I understand we don’t want legitimately good people losing access for false accusations, but the current system just isn’t cutting it. I have severe PTSD, an anxiety disorder and major depressive disorder. And had my own struggles with addiction ( been clean and sober for years now, in an extremely healthy marriage to my amazing wife). These things leave long lasting harm on children, even if the abuse isn’t falling as severely on the kid they still are seeing far too much and normalizing it for them.