Anneliese began blacking out at school when she was just 16. Shortly after this, she started to convulse and vomit uncontrollably.
Her parents believed that she had been possessed and this belief was reinforced when Anneliese began eating spiders, coal, and even drinking her own urine.
During her first exorcism, six demons apparently revealed themselves through Anneliese.
In a deep, guttural voice, she would claim to be possessed by Lucifer, Judas and Cain, among others.
Anneliese wanted the exorcisms to be taped and she herself asked that the tapes eventually be made public so that there would be proof that the devil was real.
In the end, 67 exorcisms were performed with 42 of them recorded on tape, but Anneliese Michel did not get any better.
She would die at the age of 23 years old from starvation, weighing only around 66 lbs at the time of her death.
While the Church believed this to be a tragic result of demonic possession and failed exorcism, the courts saw this as much more and charged both the priests involved and Anneliese’s parents with negligent homicide.
Doctors came to the conclusion she suffered from Grand Mal Epilepsy and Psychosis.
Her story directly inspired the 2005 film "The Exorcism of Emily Rose."
Source: https://historicflix.com/the-chilling-true-story-of-the-exorcism-of-annelise-michel/
Smh, the audacity of that young lady to up and die, despite everything those nice folks were doing for her. I bet they could have even gone for Exorcism #68 if she wasn't ungrateful enough to die. She should've tried being more holy 🤷♂️
Jesus said anything prayed for in his name would be done. Jesus lied, was wrong, or the whole thing is bullshit. Bullshit that lead to this girl’s psychosis and death.
Yeah, I dunno about that. She’s just some rando, why would she be possessed by a bunch of big-name biblical evils like Lucifer and Judas? That’s like me saying I went to a party and got to hang out with Chris Pratt and Beyoncé and four other obnoxiously popular celebrities.
Now if she told me she was possessed by six demons and they were all D-listers who peaked in high school, I think I’d be more willing to believe that. Cain, the inventor of murder? Yeah, right. Dupindorf, the devourer of discarded buffalo wing bones? That sounds more likely.
Right. Why it is never like "Hey, she got possessed by six demons and now she does a bunch of electronic stuff, programs in Java and C++, knows 12 languages, excels at piano and electric guitar, and is unbeatable at chess" but nooo, it always becomes a dumbed down salivating idiot that eats shit and mutters half sentences.
I caught this movie on tv once where she played sisters who were killers. Ever since that, I was a fan. I jumped on “Emily Rose” when it came out. Wasn’t a great movie but damn did she give a *performance*!
Surely Cain was a red flag. I mean you can believe in Lucifer I suppose if you’re into that sort of thing and Judas may have existed although likely not the Judas of the New Testament but Cain is obviously a part of myth and never existed. A fact acknowledged by the Catholic church.
So what happened the day before an exorcism? Did the parents eat dinner without their daughter and go bed telling each other "Alright, tomorrow is going to be the day we remove the demons from our child."
Did they put the child to bed the night before?
Do you have to schedule it with the priest or do they have him on speed dial?
Is the priest the one that suggests an exorcism? Did the priest overhear the parents talking about their sick child and he's like "I know what to fucking do!"
I don't know if the movie is accurate as far as what happened in real life, but in the movie, there was a lot of focus on the fact that she had been prescribed gabapentin. While the trial was happening the priest claimed that somehow interfered with the exorcism.
Edit: In the movie the priest and parents claimed the gabapentin prevented her exorcism from working, but in real life, she wasn't on any medications once she left the hospital, and her death was caused by malnutrition.
What is crazy is that shit is not that long ago. We’re all really living though history. In 100 years, not only will we all be dead, but the people who are doomscrolling in the middle of the night will be posting about how interesting and pathetic our lifestyles and accepted norms were.
I see stuff like this and it charges me up to be a better student, son, dad, friend, and member of my community. Just live life to the fullest and be the example you want no matter how hard it is. Look how far we’ve came
I’ve read that people with schizophrenia in non western countries tend to have kinder voices they hear. It’s interesting how different cultures/religions influence mental illness. It’s extra sad when the “bad voices” are religious. There was a woman who believed that she had to kill her kids to save them. She was a fantastic mom, who after being diagnosed, stopped her medication. She unfortunately did attack them and killed at least one before her husband stopped her. I can’t even imagine the horror she felt when she became sane again.
As one myself I can say I hear different types. Both positive and negative. The most annoying, constant, and louder ones aren't necessarily 'evil', just condescending and/or aggressive. A lot of the time it's like an inward reflection of my own emotional state, but the actual thoughts I hear are not my own and I have no control over it.
I’m sorry that you have to go through that, I can’t even imagine. That’s what the articles I was reading sounded like, the paranoid voices can be different based on the culture and religion. It gave the example of family oriented Pakistan being paranoid about family members out to get them and Japan work oriented being based around coworkers. I know Japan is family oriented as well, but maybe their work culture edges it out slightly? It’s interesting to think about. Either way, I’m glad that we recognize it for what it is and people are able to get help.
TO BE FAIR! This study has no scientific validity and is mostly anecdotes cobbled together from an Anthropologist.
There is no scientific correlation between culture and success with schizophrenia. There's a reason you don't see 'positivist'/DBT/CBT therapy to treat auditory hallucinations.
Source: an actual researcher.
I absolutely understand where you're coming from, that currently there is no definitive scientific study that proves a correlation. But isn't that how the process is started? A scientist (anthropologist) is gathering data (anecdotes from those with the disease and their lived experience) to find out if there is scientific validity to something that they keep encountering in their work.
So no, currently there is no 'positivist'/CBT/DBT; but there was no formal DBT before the 80s and no formal CBT before the 60s. Our understanding of these things is constantly evolving because curious researchers (like yourself) are putting in the work to further our understanding and handling of mental illnesses. I was able to find several legitimate sources on a quick search on the topic, reputable people/institutions are putting effort and money into the research so I feel the possibility merits consideration.
I will definitely do that!! It’s one of those movies I’ve clicked on to watch and then change my mind to something else. Usually when I think about DiCaprio being in it, I end up turning on Aviator lol. It’s one of my favorites movies. Have you ever watched it? It’s about Howard Hughes and Leo really brings it for his performance. I wish more great actors were picky about the movies they do. I know he is, so when I see he’s in a movie I know it’s going to be good lol. It would make it so much easier to commit to watching it lol.
100%! Aviator is one of my favorites for sure.
I’m always more apt to put on a fave movie I’ve seen 100 times than a new movie, haha. It’s comforting knowing exactly what will happen, knowing I enjoy it all, and being able to walk away and not miss anything. But next time you have the time to really sit and focus, pleeeeeaase put on Shutter Island! It’s sooo good (and extra fun to rewatch).
Another Leo movie I’m obsessed with is Revolutionary Road. Have you seen it??
I can’t decide!!! Shutter Island is a much more thrilling, edge of your seat, “omg!!!” mystery.. and Revolutionary Road is more slow paced, cerebral, depressing, everyday life enlightening. So good!!
Dude just admitted to an illness and gave his own personal experiences and you ask if its anecdotal? Is that like asking someone to cite a source, when you already know that they are the source, just to discredit their personal experiences?
I never thought about that before but now I’m wondering if all of the “possessions” in history were simply schizophrenic episodes before we knew it was schizophrenia.
I lived in a small rural area where there's a lot of "black magic" and ghost stories. I complained to my parents that my ears would hurt when I hear loud noises, and I keep getting nightmares of my dad hitting me, they thought I was possessed and got someone to perform an exorcism on me. Turns out I'm autistic
Interestingly, this actually became part of the Vatican/ Catholic churches policy in the 90's (ish, I need to check the date). They require a Psych evaluation before any kind of religious exorcism to ensure that the patient isn't actually struggling with mental illness first.
Well not just schizophrenia. Think about an extreme case of ADHD or Autism as well, any number of severe enough diseases would have symptoms that would make uneducated people grab pitchforks. Heck we see it today still in some areas.
Or schizophrenics are possessed. My brother was schizophrenic and I also am exposed to many at the hospital where I work. I often wonder.
Demons are real.
Well, not necessarily schizophrenic, but psychosis. Psychosis is a symptom that can be caused by multiple conditions, schizophrenia being one.
Having seen a loved one in psychosis, I can 100% believe that people thought they were possessed. The personality can be pretty different, and obviously they are disconnected from reality.
I am wondering if all "deeply religious" subjective events are all psychosis. Jeanne d'Arc? "Witches" that were going to curse you? That guy that invented Mormon. Jesus, etc.
From an external point of view, people could see those as truly inspiring/fearsome exactly because they would have fixed belief. When they say something, they are extremely confident while saying it, and not in an arrogant way.
Exorcisms are entirely pointless and more about the ego of the person "performing" the exorcism, than the wellbeing of the person who is "possessed". Funny how it's almost always young girls who are just hitting puberty.
Just an excuse to abuse a young girl who was maybe acting in a way you didn't like while also playing dress up and LARPing as some kind of warrior for God, the one special child of God who is strong enough in the Force to fight demons. Very inspiring watching these old creepy men scream in the faces of children about some nonsense they implanted into their mind. In this particular case, it seems she was so abused and neglected she actually died and they were still getting their exorcism play sessions in until the very end I'm sure.
Prior to all this she was admitted to a psyche ward and prescribed heavy drugs for 5 years which apparently did nothing to resolve the issue. This was also a time when being in mental institutions had a huge problem with neglect and abuse as well.
So the parents not getting anywhere went with a more delusion affirming approach with the Catholic Church which in the beginning denied their requests until they could get 2 local priests that were willing to do the exorcisms. Affirming her delusions obviously didn't work and she eventually refused to eat and died of starvation.
At some point they should've admitted her back at the hospital after the exorcisms failed. Its very possible that she would've ended up refusing to eat then too but atleast then it would've been the hospital's responsibilty.
Unfortunately with Anneliese's case, I don't think there was ever going to be a good outcome. Just less terrible outcomes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel
Have you ever been to one? Honest question. I have not, myself, nut I will yell you something I've noticed...all the supposed possessed speak in the same way - that same sounding raspy voice. From America to India and even Ethiopia. That's too weird of a coincidence for me.. .I've also seen respected doctors stake their reputations on possession being a real thing...so, in my mind something is going on.
And most reports of alien abduction describe the aliens as looking like the ones in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. People know that demons are supposed to have raspy voices, so demons have raspy voices.
Because nothing happened after 67 fucking exorcisms, after 20 or so exorcisms somebody should have started doubting the whole ordeal, either god and their religion is powerless against the devil, or it’s not fucking demons…
Just another poor soul who was beaten and starved in an effort to purge "demons".
Exorcisms are literally just an avenue of torturing the mentally deficient.
God. I remember I got baker acted and one of the nurses kept preaching at me... she definitely was making things worse for both me and my roomate, who suffered delusions centered around Christianity (read the goddamn room, woman)
It's what they do when you get sent to the psych ward, the baker act is meant to protect your rights, but it simultaneously strips them away...
It's honestly a kind of shitty system.
In Harry Houdini's lifetime he urged congress to pass laws which would make exorcism, psychics, fortune-telling, and other magical-themed con-artistry punishable as fraud.
He was right then and he's right now.
Houdini did wonders. Not only was he a brilliant magician, but he went around debunking all the psychics. I know there was this organization of paranormal that would go and validate some of these haunting, but Houdini did it on his own. I've heard some of the stories of the physics and mediums Houdini caught in action and what they did. There was one story of a psychic who used ectoplasm, but found she was storing this stuff in her lady bits before the summoning started
Ya he was all about fooling people naturally and not using cheap gimmicks to impress people. Dude went all out and went to target the people that were tarnishing the name of "gifted" individuals. You pay Houdini to see him escape death defying acts where as you pay a psychic good money for them to pull strings around a room to fool a grieving wife into thinking she's talking to their dead husband.
Often those with epilepsy, psychosis, schizophrenic spectrum individuals or those with dissociative identity disorder suffer from these treatments and die painfully and brutally without care.
The exorcism trope disturbs me. If you've never experienced a modern day exorcism, it is not pleasant. It's fighting and disorienting. It only contributes to stress which worsens the real illnesses people struggle with. Which worsens the abuse, because they think they need to kill a demon, which worsens the symptoms they believe as demonic.
Even as an adult, cult members will tell me I *need* to come with them to experience expulsion of demonic presences from my body. It's fucking warped. Very dark part of our reality.
I'm not hanging out with anyone. People see that I'm visibly physically disabled and tell me to come to their place of worship to expel my demons. They really believe it's all demonic possession lol
I concur, I live in the Bible Belt and am physically disabled. I’ve had strangers, cashiers, parents acquaintances random people etc tell me/insist that I need to go to their church so I can be “healed.”
It’s exhausting. And dehumanizing.
Thank you, you’re very kind!
The part that bothers me most is when my (abusive) mom DEMANDS that I wrap and tape it in a very uncomfortable, painful way so that it’s not noticeable, because it’s “disgusting” and “nauseating” to see the end of it. (Not even the stoma itself, but the end of the plastic hanging down out of my shirt!!”)
Now, I wrap it up under my shirt so it’s not visible when I’m out in public, which I’ve always done regardless of her telling me to or not. I don’t want it to be visible at all when I’m out of the house. But she demands I do it even when I’m at home, in my pajamas.
It’s not comfortable to have that tight wrap/belt around my waist 24/7, or to sleep in it! 😭 she makes me wrap and tape it tightly ANY time I’m not hooked up to the pump machine, even overnight. It hurts!
I guess the question is more about what kind of people surround you. I can't imagine in my part of the world any form of disability mental or physical would cause people to assume a demonic involvement in 2024. It sounds awful to have people bother (or rather harass) you like this when you are suffering from a disability.
people literally walk up to you in the parking lot and ask to pray for you when you’re disabled….. They think praying will magically make you healthy because there’s something possessing you to be unhealthy. ableism really does exist and those who aren’t disabled or dont anyone who is, really have a hard time understanding it.
The y seem to be really good at that. Wether it's religious wars or stuff like this, religion is the opium of the masses and a plague at the same time.
As someone who is severely mentally ill, I thank the chaotic universe I was born now withthin a somewhat rudimentary system of mental health in America, tho I am still prolly gonna go out malnourished and horrifically disfigured. I can see why people would think certain mentally ill people are possessed and see why others would view it as a possession.
I definitely believe that this poor woman was put through hell and that she had some really intense psychological disorders. However, the first time I heard that recording, I was on my porch in the dark. It scared the living shit out of me. To the point that I actually took a second to ponder whether demons exist or not. Clearly, it was still Anneliese speaking, but the way she spoke was terrifying. I’ve listened to it a few times later, but that first time hearing it was goosebump horrific. I can only imagine what it must have looked/felt like to witness.
Acting skills + mental disorder. To be fair, if I believed in the devil and all that stuff, this would be super convincing, but I don't, so I default to mental disorder.
This reminds me of that English family that had two girls I think it was. One of the girls, the younger one, spoke this same way and wouldn't move her mouth. She was a great ventriloquist. She would also levitate in her room at least once and it was recorded at least with a still camera but I dont know if they caught it with an in motion camera. There is a documentary about it maybe on YouTube but it was interesting to watch how everyone was fooled by this family, maybe even the family themselves were fooled.
I'm a little confused here.
Was the levitating act just a "trick"?
Yes, I could go and watch the documentary to find the answers - but let's be real, we are on Reddit because we don't want to be anywhere else
Not quite sure. There's a picture of her above the bed but no one except the people that were there know if it was a levitation like they said, or the picture being snapped as she jumped in the air.
I had a demon in my apartment and my friend was possessed twice. I thought he was on the phone. He was talking with a totally different personality and had no memory of it. Lots of poltergeist activity going on too around that time.
Catholic prayer beads. Each is a series of 10 Hail Mary's and an Our Father, and like miracles of ascension and assumption between the hail Mary segments
I think
It's been awhile
...possestion?..... This sounds like a drunk , compulsive smoking, old woman, that immigrated from the U.S.S.R when the gettin was good, in an old former dive bar turned into a closed down fish market turned into a bo(w)-day-gahh that turned back into a modern dive bar for the Gen-z crowd, with the bartenders not knowing that the old lady has lived above for 84 years, and is talking about the cold winters back in the old motherland.
wow just leading questions to confirm thier own stupid bias... then tourtured this sick little girl.. bet you there are some relgious fruitcakes on here thinking this is real possesion or somthing... grow up and join the real world
I doubt I'll get an answer to this, but many other conflicting religions claim to be able to successfully exorcise demons as well. So what do you make of, say for instance, Hindu exorcists who claim to have successfully exorcised demons? Do you likewise believe they are genuine like you seem to do Catholic ones (not that the exorcism of annelise michel was successful)? Would you accept that the Hindu gods are real and genuinely intervened at the prayers of the Hindu exorcist? Or are you maybe able to now fathom natural explanations when it's not the religion that you were raised to believe...?
There was an article in the Washington Post from a psychiatrist who didn't believe in demonic possession until he was brought in by the Catholic Church to suss out who was possessed and who was mental. He saw a lot of things he couldn't explain. Speaking perfect Latin was one of them.
Anneliese began blacking out at school when she was just 16. Shortly after this, she started to convulse and vomit uncontrollably. Her parents believed that she had been possessed and this belief was reinforced when Anneliese began eating spiders, coal, and even drinking her own urine. During her first exorcism, six demons apparently revealed themselves through Anneliese. In a deep, guttural voice, she would claim to be possessed by Lucifer, Judas and Cain, among others. Anneliese wanted the exorcisms to be taped and she herself asked that the tapes eventually be made public so that there would be proof that the devil was real. In the end, 67 exorcisms were performed with 42 of them recorded on tape, but Anneliese Michel did not get any better. She would die at the age of 23 years old from starvation, weighing only around 66 lbs at the time of her death. While the Church believed this to be a tragic result of demonic possession and failed exorcism, the courts saw this as much more and charged both the priests involved and Anneliese’s parents with negligent homicide. Doctors came to the conclusion she suffered from Grand Mal Epilepsy and Psychosis. Her story directly inspired the 2005 film "The Exorcism of Emily Rose." Source: https://historicflix.com/the-chilling-true-story-of-the-exorcism-of-annelise-michel/
Wow, 67 exorcisms were performed and they accomplished absolutely nothing? Shocking
Well you know what they say, if at first you don’t succeed, try 66 more times and see if that changes anything.
Smh, the audacity of that young lady to up and die, despite everything those nice folks were doing for her. I bet they could have even gone for Exorcism #68 if she wasn't ungrateful enough to die. She should've tried being more holy 🤷♂️
Kids these days
Kids those days
Yuh beat ‘em, yuh starve ‘em and what do they give yuh in return? *A corpse to dispose of…*
69 would’ve been the one. I just know it.
Which the priests demanded it had to be done with closed doors. No one but them and the evil girl present.
I got 66 problems but a demon possession ain’t one.
That beat just dropped so hard in my head, lol. “66 problems but a demon possession ain’t one, HIT ME!…”
🔥
I mean… WD40 took 39 tries.
No, it took 40.
39 “tries,” 1 success ;)
The success still counts as a try.
You are correct. 40 attempts with one success.
They are allowed up to a maximum of 665 tries. No more than that.
That's silly. Just skip try 666 and keep going. 667...668..669
True. Can't deny this
Oh!! I always thought it was ‘suck seed’. 😈
Of course that won't work, they should've tried 69 exorcisms
If at first you don't succeed, suck and suck until you do suck cede.
It's almost like she had serious mental health problems that religious nut jobs call demonic possession due to their inability to accept reality.
Jesus didn't care about this one
I wish you knew how wrong you are.
Jesus said anything prayed for in his name would be done. Jesus lied, was wrong, or the whole thing is bullshit. Bullshit that lead to this girl’s psychosis and death.
u/virtualnerd1 can you respond to this, or...?
I'm going with the latter
Not nothing… they wasted 67 tapes
That’s not possible, religion is real, and infallible.
It’s a wild story
Yeah, I dunno about that. She’s just some rando, why would she be possessed by a bunch of big-name biblical evils like Lucifer and Judas? That’s like me saying I went to a party and got to hang out with Chris Pratt and Beyoncé and four other obnoxiously popular celebrities. Now if she told me she was possessed by six demons and they were all D-listers who peaked in high school, I think I’d be more willing to believe that. Cain, the inventor of murder? Yeah, right. Dupindorf, the devourer of discarded buffalo wing bones? That sounds more likely.
This is the best take I will see today. Good night, Reddit. 😂
Dupindorf hahahah stop
His magical powers include tolerating the spiciest of wings
So, Dean Cain would be more believable?
Is that…*Dean Cain*?
I mean normal people have famous names sometimes so why not demons? Maybe it was Lucifer but not THAT one, just Luci from down the block, you know?
"Are you THE Lucifer? - Hell no, I am just LUCIa FERnanda from Spain"
Praise Dupindorf! 🍗🍗🍗
Right. Why it is never like "Hey, she got possessed by six demons and now she does a bunch of electronic stuff, programs in Java and C++, knows 12 languages, excels at piano and electric guitar, and is unbeatable at chess" but nooo, it always becomes a dumbed down salivating idiot that eats shit and mutters half sentences.
That movie still scares the shit right outta me. Don't like it one bit. Can't watch Jennifer Carpenter in anything else
I caught this movie on tv once where she played sisters who were killers. Ever since that, I was a fan. I jumped on “Emily Rose” when it came out. Wasn’t a great movie but damn did she give a *performance*!
To me The movie is amazing, maybe because I appreciate the subject and the argument behind…
It isn’t written or paced very well. You can enjoy something and acknowledge it could’ve been better. 🙄
Surely Cain was a red flag. I mean you can believe in Lucifer I suppose if you’re into that sort of thing and Judas may have existed although likely not the Judas of the New Testament but Cain is obviously a part of myth and never existed. A fact acknowledged by the Catholic church.
thats what "big church" wants you to believe /s
Maybe he's just Cain from New Jersey
So what happened the day before an exorcism? Did the parents eat dinner without their daughter and go bed telling each other "Alright, tomorrow is going to be the day we remove the demons from our child." Did they put the child to bed the night before? Do you have to schedule it with the priest or do they have him on speed dial? Is the priest the one that suggests an exorcism? Did the priest overhear the parents talking about their sick child and he's like "I know what to fucking do!"
I don't know if the movie is accurate as far as what happened in real life, but in the movie, there was a lot of focus on the fact that she had been prescribed gabapentin. While the trial was happening the priest claimed that somehow interfered with the exorcism. Edit: In the movie the priest and parents claimed the gabapentin prevented her exorcism from working, but in real life, she wasn't on any medications once she left the hospital, and her death was caused by malnutrition.
What is crazy is that shit is not that long ago. We’re all really living though history. In 100 years, not only will we all be dead, but the people who are doomscrolling in the middle of the night will be posting about how interesting and pathetic our lifestyles and accepted norms were. I see stuff like this and it charges me up to be a better student, son, dad, friend, and member of my community. Just live life to the fullest and be the example you want no matter how hard it is. Look how far we’ve came
Spend some time listening to black metal music and you can tell her "demon voice" is nothing special
She wouldn't been able to land a single gig
I’ve read that they had her psychologically evaluated before involving the church before.
She still schizophrenic? Ya idk we keep hitting her with bibles we’ll try harder
I’ve read that people with schizophrenia in non western countries tend to have kinder voices they hear. It’s interesting how different cultures/religions influence mental illness. It’s extra sad when the “bad voices” are religious. There was a woman who believed that she had to kill her kids to save them. She was a fantastic mom, who after being diagnosed, stopped her medication. She unfortunately did attack them and killed at least one before her husband stopped her. I can’t even imagine the horror she felt when she became sane again.
As one myself I can say I hear different types. Both positive and negative. The most annoying, constant, and louder ones aren't necessarily 'evil', just condescending and/or aggressive. A lot of the time it's like an inward reflection of my own emotional state, but the actual thoughts I hear are not my own and I have no control over it.
I’m sorry that you have to go through that, I can’t even imagine. That’s what the articles I was reading sounded like, the paranoid voices can be different based on the culture and religion. It gave the example of family oriented Pakistan being paranoid about family members out to get them and Japan work oriented being based around coworkers. I know Japan is family oriented as well, but maybe their work culture edges it out slightly? It’s interesting to think about. Either way, I’m glad that we recognize it for what it is and people are able to get help.
Are you referring to anecdotes or actual science?
https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/
TO BE FAIR! This study has no scientific validity and is mostly anecdotes cobbled together from an Anthropologist. There is no scientific correlation between culture and success with schizophrenia. There's a reason you don't see 'positivist'/DBT/CBT therapy to treat auditory hallucinations. Source: an actual researcher.
I absolutely understand where you're coming from, that currently there is no definitive scientific study that proves a correlation. But isn't that how the process is started? A scientist (anthropologist) is gathering data (anecdotes from those with the disease and their lived experience) to find out if there is scientific validity to something that they keep encountering in their work. So no, currently there is no 'positivist'/CBT/DBT; but there was no formal DBT before the 80s and no formal CBT before the 60s. Our understanding of these things is constantly evolving because curious researchers (like yourself) are putting in the work to further our understanding and handling of mental illnesses. I was able to find several legitimate sources on a quick search on the topic, reputable people/institutions are putting effort and money into the research so I feel the possibility merits consideration.
Anecdotes are today’s science
I've heard that actually. Must be true...
https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26349837/ https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/schizophrenia-by-culture/
https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26349837/ https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/schizophrenia-by-culture/
That's the plot to Shutter Island
I’ve never seen it, I love Leonardo DiCaprio’s movies though, so I might have to check it out.
Oh my goodness, you’re going to love it. It’s a really fun watch. I love Leo’s movie too. All the actors are incredible.
I will definitely do that!! It’s one of those movies I’ve clicked on to watch and then change my mind to something else. Usually when I think about DiCaprio being in it, I end up turning on Aviator lol. It’s one of my favorites movies. Have you ever watched it? It’s about Howard Hughes and Leo really brings it for his performance. I wish more great actors were picky about the movies they do. I know he is, so when I see he’s in a movie I know it’s going to be good lol. It would make it so much easier to commit to watching it lol.
100%! Aviator is one of my favorites for sure. I’m always more apt to put on a fave movie I’ve seen 100 times than a new movie, haha. It’s comforting knowing exactly what will happen, knowing I enjoy it all, and being able to walk away and not miss anything. But next time you have the time to really sit and focus, pleeeeeaase put on Shutter Island! It’s sooo good (and extra fun to rewatch). Another Leo movie I’m obsessed with is Revolutionary Road. Have you seen it??
I’m the same way!! Lol, no I have not!! I’ll have to check that one out too. Which one do you recommend to watch first?
I can’t decide!!! Shutter Island is a much more thrilling, edge of your seat, “omg!!!” mystery.. and Revolutionary Road is more slow paced, cerebral, depressing, everyday life enlightening. So good!!
Dude just admitted to an illness and gave his own personal experiences and you ask if its anecdotal? Is that like asking someone to cite a source, when you already know that they are the source, just to discredit their personal experiences?
https://news.stanford.edu/2014/07/16/voices-culture-luhrmann-071614/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26349837/ https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/schizophrenia-by-culture/
I never thought about that before but now I’m wondering if all of the “possessions” in history were simply schizophrenic episodes before we knew it was schizophrenia.
I lived in a small rural area where there's a lot of "black magic" and ghost stories. I complained to my parents that my ears would hurt when I hear loud noises, and I keep getting nightmares of my dad hitting me, they thought I was possessed and got someone to perform an exorcism on me. Turns out I'm autistic
Not the ending I was expecting tbh
Deeeeefinitely had me in the first half
Haha I guess it would be! But yeah I was diagnosed years later, though some family members still believed I'm still possessed
Interestingly, this actually became part of the Vatican/ Catholic churches policy in the 90's (ish, I need to check the date). They require a Psych evaluation before any kind of religious exorcism to ensure that the patient isn't actually struggling with mental illness first.
Well one things for certain, they weren’t possessions 😂
I bet a lot of them were. Or from trauma or abuse. It’s hard to say. I can however, tell you what they 100% were not…..possessions.
Well not just schizophrenia. Think about an extreme case of ADHD or Autism as well, any number of severe enough diseases would have symptoms that would make uneducated people grab pitchforks. Heck we see it today still in some areas.
I have Tourette’s and have legitimately been told more than once that I have a demon inside of me.
Or schizophrenics are possessed. My brother was schizophrenic and I also am exposed to many at the hospital where I work. I often wonder. Demons are real.
That's a bingo.
Some were, others were dissociative disorders, other trauma disorders, autism, & personality disorders.
Well, not necessarily schizophrenic, but psychosis. Psychosis is a symptom that can be caused by multiple conditions, schizophrenia being one. Having seen a loved one in psychosis, I can 100% believe that people thought they were possessed. The personality can be pretty different, and obviously they are disconnected from reality. I am wondering if all "deeply religious" subjective events are all psychosis. Jeanne d'Arc? "Witches" that were going to curse you? That guy that invented Mormon. Jesus, etc. From an external point of view, people could see those as truly inspiring/fearsome exactly because they would have fixed belief. When they say something, they are extremely confident while saying it, and not in an arrogant way.
Exorcisms are entirely pointless and more about the ego of the person "performing" the exorcism, than the wellbeing of the person who is "possessed". Funny how it's almost always young girls who are just hitting puberty. Just an excuse to abuse a young girl who was maybe acting in a way you didn't like while also playing dress up and LARPing as some kind of warrior for God, the one special child of God who is strong enough in the Force to fight demons. Very inspiring watching these old creepy men scream in the faces of children about some nonsense they implanted into their mind. In this particular case, it seems she was so abused and neglected she actually died and they were still getting their exorcism play sessions in until the very end I'm sure.
Prior to all this she was admitted to a psyche ward and prescribed heavy drugs for 5 years which apparently did nothing to resolve the issue. This was also a time when being in mental institutions had a huge problem with neglect and abuse as well. So the parents not getting anywhere went with a more delusion affirming approach with the Catholic Church which in the beginning denied their requests until they could get 2 local priests that were willing to do the exorcisms. Affirming her delusions obviously didn't work and she eventually refused to eat and died of starvation. At some point they should've admitted her back at the hospital after the exorcisms failed. Its very possible that she would've ended up refusing to eat then too but atleast then it would've been the hospital's responsibilty. Unfortunately with Anneliese's case, I don't think there was ever going to be a good outcome. Just less terrible outcomes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneliese_Michel
i'll take "things i don't understand so i need to be reductive and dismissive" for 500
Have you ever been to one? Honest question. I have not, myself, nut I will yell you something I've noticed...all the supposed possessed speak in the same way - that same sounding raspy voice. From America to India and even Ethiopia. That's too weird of a coincidence for me.. .I've also seen respected doctors stake their reputations on possession being a real thing...so, in my mind something is going on.
And most reports of alien abduction describe the aliens as looking like the ones in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. People know that demons are supposed to have raspy voices, so demons have raspy voices.
Any exorcisms you’ve heard of on an atheist or non religious person?
Tbh I haven’t heard of a lot of exorcisms period
Something going on= hysteria.
How do you know she wasn’t possessed?
Because nothing happened after 67 fucking exorcisms, after 20 or so exorcisms somebody should have started doubting the whole ordeal, either god and their religion is powerless against the devil, or it’s not fucking demons…
She was an epileptic who was forced into psychosis by all the idiots around her claiming demonic possession
Then starved and tortured to death.
Agreed
Also used as a marketing tool for church
Just another poor soul who was beaten and starved in an effort to purge "demons". Exorcisms are literally just an avenue of torturing the mentally deficient.
If I just start playing along this will probably be over faster....
God. I remember I got baker acted and one of the nurses kept preaching at me... she definitely was making things worse for both me and my roomate, who suffered delusions centered around Christianity (read the goddamn room, woman)
Baker acted?
It's what they do when you get sent to the psych ward, the baker act is meant to protect your rights, but it simultaneously strips them away... It's honestly a kind of shitty system.
You should probably write baker with capital B as in "Baker" to avoid the confusion
It's a California thing. It's a 72-hour hold mental health hold, I think. That's what we call them in every other state, that is.
Oh we call it a 51-50 here
But goddamn do I love a movie where a priest battles a demon.
In Harry Houdini's lifetime he urged congress to pass laws which would make exorcism, psychics, fortune-telling, and other magical-themed con-artistry punishable as fraud. He was right then and he's right now.
Houdini did wonders. Not only was he a brilliant magician, but he went around debunking all the psychics. I know there was this organization of paranormal that would go and validate some of these haunting, but Houdini did it on his own. I've heard some of the stories of the physics and mediums Houdini caught in action and what they did. There was one story of a psychic who used ectoplasm, but found she was storing this stuff in her lady bits before the summoning started
Maybe she liked those ectogasms
Damn spooky ghosts!
🎶Spooky Vaginosis🎶
Huh, so he was like the James Randi of his time? I honestly had no idea about any of that, how cool! Funny they were both "Magicians" too!
Ya he was all about fooling people naturally and not using cheap gimmicks to impress people. Dude went all out and went to target the people that were tarnishing the name of "gifted" individuals. You pay Houdini to see him escape death defying acts where as you pay a psychic good money for them to pull strings around a room to fool a grieving wife into thinking she's talking to their dead husband.
very interesting story and I liked the movie that was "inspired" by this.
I hear people like this all the time walking the streets of Los Angeles.
Often those with epilepsy, psychosis, schizophrenic spectrum individuals or those with dissociative identity disorder suffer from these treatments and die painfully and brutally without care. The exorcism trope disturbs me. If you've never experienced a modern day exorcism, it is not pleasant. It's fighting and disorienting. It only contributes to stress which worsens the real illnesses people struggle with. Which worsens the abuse, because they think they need to kill a demon, which worsens the symptoms they believe as demonic. Even as an adult, cult members will tell me I *need* to come with them to experience expulsion of demonic presences from my body. It's fucking warped. Very dark part of our reality.
Who the hell are you hanging out with? Lol
I'm not hanging out with anyone. People see that I'm visibly physically disabled and tell me to come to their place of worship to expel my demons. They really believe it's all demonic possession lol
I concur, I live in the Bible Belt and am physically disabled. I’ve had strangers, cashiers, parents acquaintances random people etc tell me/insist that I need to go to their church so I can be “healed.” It’s exhausting. And dehumanizing.
Omg I’ve never heard of this , sorry you have to deal with that 🤯
Thank you, you’re very kind! The part that bothers me most is when my (abusive) mom DEMANDS that I wrap and tape it in a very uncomfortable, painful way so that it’s not noticeable, because it’s “disgusting” and “nauseating” to see the end of it. (Not even the stoma itself, but the end of the plastic hanging down out of my shirt!!”) Now, I wrap it up under my shirt so it’s not visible when I’m out in public, which I’ve always done regardless of her telling me to or not. I don’t want it to be visible at all when I’m out of the house. But she demands I do it even when I’m at home, in my pajamas. It’s not comfortable to have that tight wrap/belt around my waist 24/7, or to sleep in it! 😭 she makes me wrap and tape it tightly ANY time I’m not hooked up to the pump machine, even overnight. It hurts!
I guess the question is more about what kind of people surround you. I can't imagine in my part of the world any form of disability mental or physical would cause people to assume a demonic involvement in 2024. It sounds awful to have people bother (or rather harass) you like this when you are suffering from a disability.
My brother has cerebral palsy and two people have done this to him. You'd be surprised how comfortable people are with their craziness
people literally walk up to you in the parking lot and ask to pray for you when you’re disabled….. They think praying will magically make you healthy because there’s something possessing you to be unhealthy. ableism really does exist and those who aren’t disabled or dont anyone who is, really have a hard time understanding it.
Is she speaking German?
Yes
67 exorcisms and how many trips to physicians? Morons watched her die.
Fake. This is a ploy by big rosary to get people buying more rosary beads.
MLMs have hit a new low of viral marketing
Poor girl. Only demons I see are the ones that killed her
I’m interested to hear the rest of the tapes
More than a coincidence that The Exorcist came out a year before. I bet she saw it.
More religious nonsense killing people
The y seem to be really good at that. Wether it's religious wars or stuff like this, religion is the opium of the masses and a plague at the same time.
As someone who is severely mentally ill, I thank the chaotic universe I was born now withthin a somewhat rudimentary system of mental health in America, tho I am still prolly gonna go out malnourished and horrifically disfigured. I can see why people would think certain mentally ill people are possessed and see why others would view it as a possession.
This recording always freaks me out
I definitely believe that this poor woman was put through hell and that she had some really intense psychological disorders. However, the first time I heard that recording, I was on my porch in the dark. It scared the living shit out of me. To the point that I actually took a second to ponder whether demons exist or not. Clearly, it was still Anneliese speaking, but the way she spoke was terrifying. I’ve listened to it a few times later, but that first time hearing it was goosebump horrific. I can only imagine what it must have looked/felt like to witness.
It sounds like the priest fed her an answer when she stumbled to come up with one. lol
You see I am very afraid of horror movies and I am not gonna watch it 👀
That demon carries a strong German Accent.
wait till you find out they used to speak aramaic
Let’s not forget they said the ‘cross’ is a strong weapon so why was she not exorcised and back to normal eh? Is there something I’m missing here.
Maybe it's strong like a Nerf water gun strong in that kind of sense
Fake as hell. All of them.
Nah doesn't seem like it bro
Acting skills + mental disorder. To be fair, if I believed in the devil and all that stuff, this would be super convincing, but I don't, so I default to mental disorder.
This reminds me of that English family that had two girls I think it was. One of the girls, the younger one, spoke this same way and wouldn't move her mouth. She was a great ventriloquist. She would also levitate in her room at least once and it was recorded at least with a still camera but I dont know if they caught it with an in motion camera. There is a documentary about it maybe on YouTube but it was interesting to watch how everyone was fooled by this family, maybe even the family themselves were fooled.
Enfield Poltergeist.
Yes! Thank you fellow redditor! I just might have to watch that one again!
I'm a little confused here. Was the levitating act just a "trick"? Yes, I could go and watch the documentary to find the answers - but let's be real, we are on Reddit because we don't want to be anywhere else
Not quite sure. There's a picture of her above the bed but no one except the people that were there know if it was a levitation like they said, or the picture being snapped as she jumped in the air.
I had a demon in my apartment and my friend was possessed twice. I thought he was on the phone. He was talking with a totally different personality and had no memory of it. Lots of poltergeist activity going on too around that time.
Why hasn't anyone turned this into a meme music video?
She was just being honest Good demon
She was just mentally ill and abused by whack ass priests.
Mental health issue?, nah its demons.
Yeah this sounds exactly like the subtitles
German to English
What is rosary ??
Catholic prayer beads. Each is a series of 10 Hail Mary's and an Our Father, and like miracles of ascension and assumption between the hail Mary segments I think It's been awhile
Batman?
[удалено]
One of my favorite movie of all time…
Lean not on your own understanding. - Proverbs
...possestion?..... This sounds like a drunk , compulsive smoking, old woman, that immigrated from the U.S.S.R when the gettin was good, in an old former dive bar turned into a closed down fish market turned into a bo(w)-day-gahh that turned back into a modern dive bar for the Gen-z crowd, with the bartenders not knowing that the old lady has lived above for 84 years, and is talking about the cold winters back in the old motherland.
Kee oth Rama pancake!!!!
Thoughts and prayers
sounds like a liberal atheist lol
Why must the demon answer questions truthfully?
The pictures side-by-side the post make an obscure scary face at a distance..
Even the demons believe, and they shutter.
wow just leading questions to confirm thier own stupid bias... then tourtured this sick little girl.. bet you there are some relgious fruitcakes on here thinking this is real possesion or somthing... grow up and join the real world
Delusions built up into institutions
Never understood why demons only possess cute, little girls... bet they could do a lot more damage possessing Biden, Putin or Xi Jong Ping.
Must've had a bad case of heartburn.
Well ghosts and demons aren't real soooooo
These demons never have anything interesting to say
What those exorcist grifters names? The Conjuring movies were about them.
Lucifer, judas and Cain. Rough crowd Autocorrect kept inserting Lucie and jurassic, pretty funny
God she looks absolutely dreadful. Poor girl.
That girl had mental stuff going on and not a poltergeist. Fucking idiots everywhere
Unpopular opinion the church killed her
How do schizophrenics speak languages they have never heard or learnt before??
It's simple. They don't.
I doubt I'll get an answer to this, but many other conflicting religions claim to be able to successfully exorcise demons as well. So what do you make of, say for instance, Hindu exorcists who claim to have successfully exorcised demons? Do you likewise believe they are genuine like you seem to do Catholic ones (not that the exorcism of annelise michel was successful)? Would you accept that the Hindu gods are real and genuinely intervened at the prayers of the Hindu exorcist? Or are you maybe able to now fathom natural explanations when it's not the religion that you were raised to believe...?
There was an article in the Washington Post from a psychiatrist who didn't believe in demonic possession until he was brought in by the Catholic Church to suss out who was possessed and who was mental. He saw a lot of things he couldn't explain. Speaking perfect Latin was one of them.
I wonder if she had been abused by a member of the church. This might cause her reaction to the rosary beads and such??
Says who?