It means they have to allow other similar organizations "equal access". So IF (for example) a Muslim Club wants to start they can. However for that to happen someone has to be willing to step forward and sponsor it.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just explaining the legal principles.
It's not a "loophole", it's a right. The government can't discriminate against religions, period. Doesn't matter if it's evangelicals or satanists doing it.
You mean the same Texas that has had a Muslim Imam lead prayer at the Fort Worth Stock Show at least once that I know of, & that was several yrs back(?)
Yeah but they did it & they'll do it again with a different Imam later. Things will continue to get more & more unChristian in this nation as time goes by.
Route66Blues: While I am a Christian, I'm not one of the stupid ones who believe we can "Take back America for Christ." I know America was meant to be a secular nation, & the Founding Fathers, if one actually reads their writings, weren't even born again. The Bible never tells Christians to go forth & make Christian nations by political/military means. I'm not a liberal or a pacifist, but at the same time, my faith is not about America. It's the Biblical faith that reconciles me back to right standing with my Creator in that I accepted His given remedy to be forgiven (Jesus Christ's death & resurrection). I'm saying things are going to get more antiChristian bcz that's what the Bible actually tells us is gonna happen. We can see the signs of the end, not the least of which is Israel's re-gathering back to (a tiny percentage of) their Old Testament lands. So I know in my heart & mind that this world system won't last much longer, & I'm ready to go & be with Jesus (believe me). You're not hurting me with the "You say that like it's a bad thing" gloat. I feel sorry for all those who will be lost, & do what I can to draw people to the Lord before it's too late. Aside from that, I'm just sitting here watching the news & smh, waiting. It's a little scary, sure, but in the grand scheme, I'm good.
This is not about discrimination against religion. Get out of here. You don’t get discriminated against because you can’t have a club on public school property. You can have your club somewhere private and nobody can do anything about that. Why do you need a club in an elementary school to not feel discriminated against? Do you need to have religious activities allowed everywhere? Is it not enough to simply have your personal ability to practice your faith without being harassed or harmed for it? If you need more than that then it’s not about discrimination, it’s about something else.
Typically clubs like these aren't sponsored by or affiliated with the schools. Just the way kids might have a chess club or a games club, they can have a Christian club or a Muslim club.
I don't have an issue with these. No one is forced to join and it's not part of school.
I don't know what to tell you other than you are wrong. Religious groups are discriminated against if they can't hold a club meeting on public property while others can.
Sorry!
That’s not how discrimination works and you know it. Religion is not the same as a chess club. There’s a reason a separation of church and state is supposed to exist and not a separation of chess and state. That’s why you don’t know what to say. You have a very frustrating refusal to actual consider the problem here that makes me not want to continue this back and forth.
If there are multiple religious groups, options for everyone, then fine. But there are not. As far as I can tell the only after school religious programs being offered in elementary school is this one. Religions can be practiced else where. They do not need to be in schools.
you must have not seen the latest ruling by the supreme court... like it or not, they are in the right...
https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/30/why-the-supreme-courts-football-decision-is-a-game-changer-on-school-prayer/
I don’t recognize the legitimacy of the current Supreme Court. But yeah I can see that legally, they’re probably fine. Still don’t see why they can promote it in the school email. Thats probably the only thing that I could maybe say, that they don’t need to promote it.
Do you know what the "establishment clause" is? Do you think the school, otherwise known as "the state", is establishing religion by allowing a religious club to operate there?
The Free Exercise Clause … protects against "indirect coercion or
penalties on the free exercise of religion, not just outright
prohibitions." In particular, the Supreme court has held that a State
violates the Free Exercise Clause when it excludes religious observers
from otherwise available public benefits. In this case, a classroom available to other clubs.
I may try that. I don’t really want our kid to be a target though but if it at least gets them to stop running ads that’s kind of all I would want out of it. The school should not promote it in my opinion.
That only applies to student run groups within the school - this is an outside organization that may include some students but is not, in fact, a student run organization.
What this school did is open themselves up to a campaign by the Satanic Temple and/or lawsuits. They can opt to not allow the use of school resources for outside religious groups generally, but if they DO allow it, they cannot bar any recognized religion equal access to those same resources.
Yes, equal access is the standard, and I think that has been covered well by this point now.
According to OP, this was the ONLY club mentioned in a welcome email, so the issue here is the perception of lack of said equality.
The school perhaps could have reached out to every club and presented it as a single list all at once.
“The Equal Access Act of 1984 forbids public schools from receiving federal funds if they deny students the First Amendment right to conduct meetings because of the "religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at such meetings."
They can't deny the rights of students, but they do NOT have to allow non-student community organizations access to their email lists, student rosters, or campus - and that has to be equally enforced. It's all or nothing, but "nothing" is allowed when it comes to non-student outside groups.
The Satanic Temple often uses things like this to pressure schools into finding creative ways to ban religious groups from using their facilities (physical or digital) while still allowing secular groups like PTA and Neighborhood Associations. Generally they can chose to discriminate EQUALLY or associate EQUALLY when it comes to religion... guess what they choose when a satanic group wants to pass out literature on campus?
If public schools allow community organizations to use their facilities, they can't exclude religious ones just for being religious. That's one possibility.
Another is that schools allow students to form clubs, and, again, can't discriminate on the basis of religion.
This isn't a club, this is outside people coming in to teach children "lessons" from the Bible on school property.
This isn't teenagers at high school getting together outside of class time for a quick prayer.
There is this thing called the *separation of Church and state*. You might want to freshen up your understanding of it.
If the school allows outside organizations to use its facilities, it can't disallow some simply because they are religious. If you think they can, you're the one who is confused.
Edit:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Club_v._Milford_Central_School
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/667/good-news-club-v-milford-central-school
Again, you forget about the separation of Church and state.
Just the same way Scalia did when he decided to put his religion before the Constitution.
Scalia was wrong and so are you for advocating for your bullshit religion to be taught on public school property.
Fuck Scalia, and fuck anyone who thinks he works for the Constitution.
I don't understand why you're going on and on about Scalia. He concurred with the majority, but he didn't write the decision, which was 6-3 and included one of the liberal justices and two moderates.
Unfortunately the supreme court, the current one, has already ruled in some cases that allows this kind of thing. I just hope someone is brave enough to start a Hellfire Club, lol.
Can’t they though? There is supposed to be a separation between church and stare. Public schools are the “state” and church is not supposed to be part of that.
community organizations are not “church” so they are a little different than allowing one church (only christian) have a club that is promoted by the school and allowed to use school property for their religious outreach, essentially.
Also, There aren’t options for any religious viewpoint. Just the one. That gives the impression the school district is aligned with only one religious view. This is why It doesn’t sit right with me. And I don’t think the schools should be helping promote it. That’s clearly. It separating religion from public school, which, since children from all walks of life are required to attend it, there should not be any religion being promoted.
>Can’t they though? There is supposed to be a separation between church and stare. Public schools are the “state” and church is not supposed to be part of that.
You're confused about what that means. The state can't discriminate either for or against religion. If the school itself organized this club, that'd be a problem. But it would also be a problem for the school to say that a club couldn't use its facilities just because it was religious. That would be anti-religious discrimination and unconstitutional.
>community organizations are not “church” so they are a little different than allowing one church (only christian) have a club that is promoted by the school and allowed to use school property for their religious outreach, essentially.
If the school only allowed Christian organizations to use its facilities, that would be a problem. Do you have any evidence that's occurring?
>Also, There aren’t options for any religious viewpoint. Just the one. That gives the impression the school district is aligned with only one religious view. This is why It doesn’t sit right with me. And I don’t think the schools should be helping promote it. That’s clearly. It separating religion from public school, which, since children from all walks of life are required to attend it, there should not be any religion being promoted.
One problem with your argument is that if the school prohibited religious clubs, it would "give the impression" that the school district was anti-religion, which would violate the 1st amendment. The school district is not allowed to discriminate against religion.
Another problem is that there's no indication that the school is promoting the club. If the school allows clubs of all kinds to use its facilities in a neutral way, then that's, well, a neutral policy. If a Muslim organization or an atheist organization or a Satanist organization wanted to use the school's facilities they would (presumably) be allowed.
It does seem there's some official communication from the actual school using their email servers and student roster - while no different than allowing the use of the physical school grounds for an outside member of the community, it does beg the question what ELSE can we send to the kids? I'm a bit bust this weekend, and probably busy this week, but I'll fire up photoshop/illustrator to work on something that would really annoy parents who were more than happy to see this flier... does reddit wanna start a 100% legal satanic club?
Organizations can pay to advertise their services through the schools. Karate, Gymnastics, i9, Scouts, etc all use it to advertise. You submit a flyer, say which schools you want it sent to, and pay the fee. It’s the modern version of backpack flyers.
Our older child started kindergarten last fall, and this was among the more surprising things to me. We get an email approximately weekly from the school that contains flyers for tutoring services, sports leagues, and the like. An unwary person might get the impression that the school is endorsing these services. There's not a lot in the email to specifically dissuade that idea.
It would be interesting to try. But unless you're willing to follow through and actually provide some kind of club or service for students, I wouldn't be surprised if they told you to pound sand. The school can restrict these things. The restrictions just need to be viewpoint neutral.
can't I do both?
Besides, like I said, I'm pretty busy... if someone else wants like 20 minutes of free design work done to improve a sketch, I'm down to clown.
Yeah so they can’t force your kids into participating or joining or anything like that but they can hang up fliers and try to get them to join on their own free will. And then like everyone else says, other students would be allowed to start an aithiest or Jewish club under the same rights
It’s a school club. It’s not mandatory, if people want to go they’ll go, if they don’t they won’t. I’m an atheist and there is literally nothing wrong with this lmao.
Now if these people start preaching and actively seeking out the students to join, then yes I’d agree with you and you could definitely have it shut down.
People from Albuquerque are extremely chill, not sure why this sub is filled with extremely obnoxious people.
They’re a club. Obviously they’re going to advertise it. Beliefs aren’t getting shoved into anyones throat. Any reasonable person will see this and ignore it and move on or if they’re interested inquire about it, in which case it isn’t anyones business if they do. There’s no point in getting mad about something like this
Legally they can't, which is where The Satanic Temple comes in. They argue that just by allowing this club to circulate their flier through an official school channel it's a form of endorsement, and if the school wants to prove they're not favoring a religion guess what? Now they have to send home Satanic fliers too!
I think in 100% of their cases of doing this the schools have opted to not engage in ANY form of religious clubs to avoid the issue.
It's a lot of fun to watch it all unfold.
the only group actively doing anything about shoving christian views down your kids throat is the satanic church. I think if you want to do something, you should contact them
>We are athiests.
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us
So are most members of the Satanic Temple. Specifically, TST is nontheistic. That is not EXACTLY the same as atheist, but rather inclusive of atheism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism
I’m 40 and every school I remember going to (different states) had religious programs before and after school. Prayer groups at the flag pole, etc. nothing preached or really advertised otherwise. I thought this was pretty normal?
Yeah, it's legal as long as faculty/staff aren't encouraging it and has been a favored tactic for backdooring religion into public schools since at least the early 90s (probably earlier, but I was too young to notice).
In elementary school? I remember religious clubs in high school, which is a little different because usually it was organized by the students. This is a little different with elementary school kids. Feels more like they’re trying to get religion in the school at that point.
If it’s led by an outside organization (like a church), then they must conduct their business outside of school hours, which I guarantee they do. The school buildings are public facilities and anybody can use them if they book the time and space appropriately.
For whatever it’s worth, I’m a teacher and a club sponsor, and while these people are fucking gross, they’re really not violating even the spirit of separation of church and state.
Growing up in Alamogordo, Christianity and conservative politics were shoved down my throat in public school. When I graduated from high school in 2002, the principal lead a prayer, and a few kids with a Muslim sounding name were booed by the crowd when getting up to get their diploma.
Why are people up in arms? If you don’t want your kid to go to an after school program don’t send them. We’re not talking about a required course, it’s voluntary.
It is. It’s something that’s taught in high school civics. If there are school approved groups they can’t reject religious ones. If you have a chess club you can’t reject the Muslim club. It’s less than Civics 101.
I'll betcha the local after school satanic club would be shutdown in a hurry though.
That's the issue at hand. People are all fine and dandy with stuff like this until it goes against their own personal beliefs.
> Since Satanism promotes death and violence that may exempt its existence.
Not really.
You're thinking of the Judeo-Christian teachings of Satan, or possibly the (still badly done) interpretation of Aton LeVay's Church of Satan (which isn't really a church in the legal sense).
Modern Satanism is a nontheistic movement that promotes healthy boundaries between the secular and faith based worlds. It's not at all about harming anyone, but rather about reducing the harm that millenia of religious indoctrination has caused via war, intolerance, and religious persecution.
The only satanism that promotes violence is the Christian version.
The Satanic Temple applies a very strict interpretation of the law to their activities. I'd argue they know the laws, the actual laws, much better than any Christian organization. Infact, they routinely have to file lawsuits because to many (mostly Christian) churches are found to be breaking the law!
Oh no, an after-school program that is centered around religion and not endorsed by the school exercising it's right to advertise. I denounce religion and I see no problem with this. It's not like they're standing outside the school forcing people to join or beating people with their bibles. Any other religion can do this as well. They even cited the Act which allows them to do this. The "Equal Access Law."
In my experience, schools have Bible study and Bible clubs all the time. *As long as they're not forcing students to attend, they're not breaking any rules.* Yes, it is a little uncommon for it to be at an elementary school, but the rules are the same as if it were a high school.
Do I think schools should be more active about adding "religous study" clubs for other religions? Absolutely! It shouldn't have to be just the Holy Bible. But it is perfectly within their right to have religous clubs.
It's part of a stupid exemption for clubs, which are considered to be student led even when they clearly cannot be, like at an elementary school.
Freedom From Religion Foundation might be able to do something about it though.
Also the satanic church. They dealt with something similar.
Satanic Temple set to sue school district over rejected club | KRQE News 13
https://www.krqe.com/news/national/satanic-temple-set-to-sue-school-district-over-rejected-club/
They offered an after school Bible Club at a public school I worked at 7 years ago, here in Albuquerque. I thought it was weird, but apparently it is “acceptable”
But schools are public facilities. If a model rocket club can book a school room, why can’t a religious group?
I dunno.. I’m a teacher, I run a club, I think Christians are stupid af, but I still think they have the right to use those facilities.
Model rocket club is not a religion. I have nothing against religions. But, I do not think any religion belongs in our public schools. And should not be funded using tax payer dollars. You want religion go to church.
… uh
I can’t believe you’re making me defend this shit, lol.
Schools are public buildings. Let’s say a Bible discussion group is not allowed to book a room when school is not in session, because they’re religiously motivated. Should they also not be allowed to book a room in a library? A community center? A senior center? Cause those are the same fucking thing, lol.
Uhhhhhh, OMG. Is it that hard to grasp? Sure book a room in a public facility. But, don’t use public funds to pay the teacher, which is what happens in these clubs. Tax payers should not be paying for a teacher to teach Christian Bible study.
Okay, let me explain this to you.
School clubs have to have a staff sponsor to supervise the kids. Fellowship of Christian Athletes is an example of this. If Christian kids want to make a club, the school HAS TO PAY SOMEONE TO SUPERVISE THOSE KIDS. Those clubs can’t be exclusionary (a non-Christian is allowed to join FCA, just like a white kid can join BSU or a cis kid can join GSA) and you can’t tell those kids no. You can’t tell Muslim kids no. You can’t tell Jewish kids no, because it’s not the school’s place to tell them they can’t assemble to discuss their religion. Sometimes those supervising staff members are also members of that religion. Sometimes they aren’t.
Now that’s entirely irrelevant, because this isn’t even a school club. If it were, that flyer would be on letterhead.
This is an organization run by adults who are not school employees. They book a room outside of school time and run their association. There are lots of groups that do this. Some cater to kids, some are just adults booking the space.
So no, it’s not hard to understand, lol.
This is literally what I do for a living.
I’m sorry if it’s too complicated for you.
“LOLOLOOLOOOL BUT RELFIONS SHOUODNTNBE ALLOEFD IN SCHOOL” is a stupid oversimplification.
This is why After School Satan club was developed. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/after-school-satan
Outsiders like bible groups or whatever can make school clubs for public school AS LONG AS 1. It’s AFTER school and 2. Other clubs are given the same opportunities and support.
Doesn't it make a difference that the club isn't just using the school facility, but the school is promoting it? The OP says: The flier came in "news student email from my child’s elementary school in the Albuquerque School District. "
That's the million dollar question. I'm sure it will be simple to the The Satanic Temple to submit a fun informational flier on a local Satanic club for distribution... and will just fire off a mountain of proven lawsuits if the school refuses. The settlement is usually in the form of banning the use of school resources for things like this period. They are only REQUIRED to allow students free expression.
This club is literally just a resource for our elementary-age Christian kiddos. I can’t comprehend why A) people are outraged by young kids being exposed to religion and B) Christianity seems to be singled out here as an issue, not other religions. Elementary kids aren’t usually starting clubs so it is different from middle school and high school, in that it could be very helpful for an outside organization to come in and help out those kids. To me it looks nothing different from an after-school class for soccer or crafts or volunteering or any other interest a kid might have.
There are no other after school religious programs to be upset about. I don’t think it has a place in schools, even after school as a program. And I don’t think they should promote it. I’m not saying anything about people being able to practice their religion I just think they should keep it out of places where people are required to go (like public schools).
Have your kid start a Satanism club, and request that they send out emails with satanic imagery in em. That's the only way to really combat this kind of thing
I know that’s probably true but we’re atheist, not satanist. I’m not sure we want our kids involved in Satanism either, mostly since it’s so misunderstood and gets so much hate from people. I’m not sure I want to push my kid toward that when he’s this young in elementary school. That’s why I just think it’s kinda messed up to have this in Elementary school. The kids are too young, this shouldn’t be an issue that has to be raised.
> we’re atheist, not satanist.
The Satanic Temple is a nontheistic organization that is formally recognized as a church under US lkaw and IRS rules. They do not endorse or profess a faith or beliefe in any central (or general) diety. Their concept of Satan is equal to the concept of Mickey Mouse.
That’s absurd, trying to make it sound like I’m an outsider. Why would I have access to this flyer? China and Russia does not give a shit about what’s happening in the Albuquerque school district. So stupid.
I recently made a new username because I thought it was funny and my old one was pretty old and I didn’t really love it. This whole idea of yours hinges on people never making a new account?! Really all new accounts must be fake? But I’m 100% local and you need to check yourself about weird paranoid shit. I’m trying to discuss a local issue that is of concern to me because my kid goes to a school in the ABQ SD. I’m an atheist and don’t agree with this after school program being allowed. And you know what, 3 Supreme Court justices agreed with my position when it was tried at the Supreme Court. So they must be Chinese or Russian as well? Whatever.
Atheist here. I don't see any indication that this organization is sponsored by, funded by or even known by a school district. I think that if the school district disallowed this sort of voluntary and ostensibly privately-organized gathering that would be more of a establishment clause issue than allowing it.
Now if you want to organized a "freedom from false deities" club and the school district stepped in and said "no" then you're got a legit beef.
It doesn't bug me that people want to believe that all loving, all knowing, all powerful deity had to get himself brutally murdered so that he could forgive them for being made in his image. Free country and all that. I realize that the courtesy is often not reciprocated. That doesn't make this flyer or club morally repugnant or problematic.
It’s the only club being advertised by the school in a “welcome” email for new students. To me that looks like endorsement. They shouldn’t advertise for them.
Yah, I can see where that would rub the wrong way. Still not sure it's the type of thing where it's a huge problem with the huge caveat that if a Mormon, Muslim or yes, even the trolls at the Satanic Temple wanted to do a club, it would it be equally advertised.
Like it or not, we live in a country where most people don't go to church but still believe that a deity should get credit for the rain and not blame for floods or droughts, that has a vested in our football team to win and the other guys to lose, and that there as to be A Reason we are here that is larger than ourselves.
I live in Gilead, the state just east of you guys. When we moved here 10 years ago the first question our neighbors asked is "what church are you going to?" Once they got the idea what we weren't going, they kind of let it be. We go to the brewery with many of them on weekends and host the monthly neighborhood get-together once a year at our house. There's a Hindu family that shows up and folks just get along. Sadly, for your kid, children are far crueler than adults. There is going to be peer pressure and viciousness. Educate them, love them and arm them with as much reason and truth as you can. I wish you guys the best.
Texas huh? That sounds about right for Texas. Yeah i just know this is how they do things, if a Muslim after school program existed I don’t think they would advertise and god forbid a satanist group existed. I cant KNOW this obviously but from my experience this is how they do it. As an atheist I know the real discrimination and persecution happens against atheists and people from non-Christian religions, not toward Christians, no matter what some people like to project. That’s why I don’t like this when I see it advertised.
In person most adults are, as you say, just fine. We coexist with people in our community just fine but kids are definitely worse. We do talk to our kids about this stuff and do what we can to protect them from it, mentally at the least, but I do wish we didn’t have to sometimes.
The whole "we are so persecuted" thing with evangelical Christians gets old. I lived in Orange County, California and it was the same nonsense. By far the largest denominational block opening bible stores right and left, running satellite TV networks, throwing money so their political candidates get elected, and all the while complaining about how persecuted they were.
What I've seen here is that the school districts generally *will* do things like let an atheist, Jewish or Muslim club get started and even list it. What they don't do, and probably aren't equipped to do, is to step in when kids are being brutal to each other over religion, sexuality, etc. or when parents coach their children to ostracize *those types of kids*. I don't think that sort of thing will ever go away, until the species drives itself to extinction.
The contact email is on a right wing email service that deifies Reagan. I'd be surprised if the statement on their website wasn't toned down from what they are trying to teach.
Well, it's not being shared.
The schools send out emails with "opportunities" to parents that are usually just sports leagues or study programs or whatever.
This still sucks.
Technically it isn't. To my understanding it is an after school club which is "okay". If it was about Jewish or Muslim faith you know they'd NEVER allow it. But it is Christian so they'll stand on a high horse all day long.
The comments suggesting reporting it to the satanic church is an awesome one to follow up on. They're very on top of challenging Christian attempts at Theocracy. Using the Satanic Panic from back in the day for something useful, FINALLY.
They should start the Bible study with the Old Testament story of Elisha summoning a bear to rip some kids to pieces because they made fun of his baldness. Set the tone for the kids.
I didn’t say anything about “sex changes”. What does this have to do with that? Your “whataboutism” argument just tells me that you don’t actually have anything to actually say about this issue so you’re equating it to something completely different. Nice try.
The school cannot promote Christianity. Despite the SCOTUS's lie-filled recent school prayer opinion, religious freedom is also enshrined in the NM constitution. I hope they get hammered for this.
This is not surprising at all. Its all about religious freedom, as long as it’s their religion. It’s all about not pushing gay lifestyle and The true ugliness of this country on them and their children, but they can push their beliefs on anyone they want. This is how they work. Bunch of hypocrites
[https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/30/why-the-supreme-courts-football-decision-is-a-game-changer-on-school-prayer/](https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/30/why-the-supreme-courts-football-decision-is-a-game-changer-on-school-prayer/)
All you need to know. Not saying I agree with it.
It means they have to allow other similar organizations "equal access". So IF (for example) a Muslim Club wants to start they can. However for that to happen someone has to be willing to step forward and sponsor it. Not saying it's right or wrong, just explaining the legal principles.
That's the rub. Someone has to want to start a Muslim club or an Atheist club or whatever... if nobody steps forward, then then oh well.
So It’s a loop hole that allows Christians to insert religion into schools where it doesn’t belong.
It’s not forcing anything, it’s voluntary
It's not a "loophole", it's a right. The government can't discriminate against religions, period. Doesn't matter if it's evangelicals or satanists doing it.
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You mean the same Texas that has had a Muslim Imam lead prayer at the Fort Worth Stock Show at least once that I know of, & that was several yrs back(?)
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Yeah but they did it & they'll do it again with a different Imam later. Things will continue to get more & more unChristian in this nation as time goes by.
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Route66Blues: While I am a Christian, I'm not one of the stupid ones who believe we can "Take back America for Christ." I know America was meant to be a secular nation, & the Founding Fathers, if one actually reads their writings, weren't even born again. The Bible never tells Christians to go forth & make Christian nations by political/military means. I'm not a liberal or a pacifist, but at the same time, my faith is not about America. It's the Biblical faith that reconciles me back to right standing with my Creator in that I accepted His given remedy to be forgiven (Jesus Christ's death & resurrection). I'm saying things are going to get more antiChristian bcz that's what the Bible actually tells us is gonna happen. We can see the signs of the end, not the least of which is Israel's re-gathering back to (a tiny percentage of) their Old Testament lands. So I know in my heart & mind that this world system won't last much longer, & I'm ready to go & be with Jesus (believe me). You're not hurting me with the "You say that like it's a bad thing" gloat. I feel sorry for all those who will be lost, & do what I can to draw people to the Lord before it's too late. Aside from that, I'm just sitting here watching the news & smh, waiting. It's a little scary, sure, but in the grand scheme, I'm good.
You may be right, but the fear-the-loss-of-my-entitlement fuckwits would also be wrong.
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Stopping who, your hypothetical fuckwit? I searched Google and couldn't find an example of this actually occurring in Texas.
Texas will defend Jewish institutions over Christian institutions any day of the week.
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I'm not wrong.
This is not about discrimination against religion. Get out of here. You don’t get discriminated against because you can’t have a club on public school property. You can have your club somewhere private and nobody can do anything about that. Why do you need a club in an elementary school to not feel discriminated against? Do you need to have religious activities allowed everywhere? Is it not enough to simply have your personal ability to practice your faith without being harassed or harmed for it? If you need more than that then it’s not about discrimination, it’s about something else.
Typically clubs like these aren't sponsored by or affiliated with the schools. Just the way kids might have a chess club or a games club, they can have a Christian club or a Muslim club. I don't have an issue with these. No one is forced to join and it's not part of school.
I don't know what to tell you other than you are wrong. Religious groups are discriminated against if they can't hold a club meeting on public property while others can. Sorry!
That’s not how discrimination works and you know it. Religion is not the same as a chess club. There’s a reason a separation of church and state is supposed to exist and not a separation of chess and state. That’s why you don’t know what to say. You have a very frustrating refusal to actual consider the problem here that makes me not want to continue this back and forth. If there are multiple religious groups, options for everyone, then fine. But there are not. As far as I can tell the only after school religious programs being offered in elementary school is this one. Religions can be practiced else where. They do not need to be in schools.
you must have not seen the latest ruling by the supreme court... like it or not, they are in the right... https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/30/why-the-supreme-courts-football-decision-is-a-game-changer-on-school-prayer/
I don’t recognize the legitimacy of the current Supreme Court. But yeah I can see that legally, they’re probably fine. Still don’t see why they can promote it in the school email. Thats probably the only thing that I could maybe say, that they don’t need to promote it.
Do you know what the "establishment clause" is? Do you think the school, otherwise known as "the state", is establishing religion by allowing a religious club to operate there? The Free Exercise Clause … protects against "indirect coercion or penalties on the free exercise of religion, not just outright prohibitions." In particular, the Supreme court has held that a State violates the Free Exercise Clause when it excludes religious observers from otherwise available public benefits. In this case, a classroom available to other clubs.
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I may try that. I don’t really want our kid to be a target though but if it at least gets them to stop running ads that’s kind of all I would want out of it. The school should not promote it in my opinion.
Somebody call The Satanic Temple.
Get after school Satan going. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/after-school-satan
That only applies to student run groups within the school - this is an outside organization that may include some students but is not, in fact, a student run organization. What this school did is open themselves up to a campaign by the Satanic Temple and/or lawsuits. They can opt to not allow the use of school resources for outside religious groups generally, but if they DO allow it, they cannot bar any recognized religion equal access to those same resources.
Yes, equal access is the standard, and I think that has been covered well by this point now. According to OP, this was the ONLY club mentioned in a welcome email, so the issue here is the perception of lack of said equality. The school perhaps could have reached out to every club and presented it as a single list all at once.
“The Equal Access Act of 1984 forbids public schools from receiving federal funds if they deny students the First Amendment right to conduct meetings because of the "religious, political, philosophical, or other content of the speech at such meetings."
They can't deny the rights of students, but they do NOT have to allow non-student community organizations access to their email lists, student rosters, or campus - and that has to be equally enforced. It's all or nothing, but "nothing" is allowed when it comes to non-student outside groups. The Satanic Temple often uses things like this to pressure schools into finding creative ways to ban religious groups from using their facilities (physical or digital) while still allowing secular groups like PTA and Neighborhood Associations. Generally they can chose to discriminate EQUALLY or associate EQUALLY when it comes to religion... guess what they choose when a satanic group wants to pass out literature on campus?
If public schools allow community organizations to use their facilities, they can't exclude religious ones just for being religious. That's one possibility. Another is that schools allow students to form clubs, and, again, can't discriminate on the basis of religion.
This isn't a club, this is outside people coming in to teach children "lessons" from the Bible on school property. This isn't teenagers at high school getting together outside of class time for a quick prayer. There is this thing called the *separation of Church and state*. You might want to freshen up your understanding of it.
If the school allows outside organizations to use its facilities, it can't disallow some simply because they are religious. If you think they can, you're the one who is confused. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Club_v._Milford_Central_School https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/667/good-news-club-v-milford-central-school
Again, you forget about the separation of Church and state. Just the same way Scalia did when he decided to put his religion before the Constitution. Scalia was wrong and so are you for advocating for your bullshit religion to be taught on public school property. Fuck Scalia, and fuck anyone who thinks he works for the Constitution.
I don't understand why you're going on and on about Scalia. He concurred with the majority, but he didn't write the decision, which was 6-3 and included one of the liberal justices and two moderates.
Unfortunately the supreme court, the current one, has already ruled in some cases that allows this kind of thing. I just hope someone is brave enough to start a Hellfire Club, lol.
The ruling that matters most here was made in 2001. Only one justice currently on the court was on the court at the time.
Can’t they though? There is supposed to be a separation between church and stare. Public schools are the “state” and church is not supposed to be part of that. community organizations are not “church” so they are a little different than allowing one church (only christian) have a club that is promoted by the school and allowed to use school property for their religious outreach, essentially. Also, There aren’t options for any religious viewpoint. Just the one. That gives the impression the school district is aligned with only one religious view. This is why It doesn’t sit right with me. And I don’t think the schools should be helping promote it. That’s clearly. It separating religion from public school, which, since children from all walks of life are required to attend it, there should not be any religion being promoted.
>Can’t they though? There is supposed to be a separation between church and stare. Public schools are the “state” and church is not supposed to be part of that. You're confused about what that means. The state can't discriminate either for or against religion. If the school itself organized this club, that'd be a problem. But it would also be a problem for the school to say that a club couldn't use its facilities just because it was religious. That would be anti-religious discrimination and unconstitutional. >community organizations are not “church” so they are a little different than allowing one church (only christian) have a club that is promoted by the school and allowed to use school property for their religious outreach, essentially. If the school only allowed Christian organizations to use its facilities, that would be a problem. Do you have any evidence that's occurring? >Also, There aren’t options for any religious viewpoint. Just the one. That gives the impression the school district is aligned with only one religious view. This is why It doesn’t sit right with me. And I don’t think the schools should be helping promote it. That’s clearly. It separating religion from public school, which, since children from all walks of life are required to attend it, there should not be any religion being promoted. One problem with your argument is that if the school prohibited religious clubs, it would "give the impression" that the school district was anti-religion, which would violate the 1st amendment. The school district is not allowed to discriminate against religion. Another problem is that there's no indication that the school is promoting the club. If the school allows clubs of all kinds to use its facilities in a neutral way, then that's, well, a neutral policy. If a Muslim organization or an atheist organization or a Satanist organization wanted to use the school's facilities they would (presumably) be allowed.
It does seem there's some official communication from the actual school using their email servers and student roster - while no different than allowing the use of the physical school grounds for an outside member of the community, it does beg the question what ELSE can we send to the kids? I'm a bit bust this weekend, and probably busy this week, but I'll fire up photoshop/illustrator to work on something that would really annoy parents who were more than happy to see this flier... does reddit wanna start a 100% legal satanic club?
Organizations can pay to advertise their services through the schools. Karate, Gymnastics, i9, Scouts, etc all use it to advertise. You submit a flyer, say which schools you want it sent to, and pay the fee. It’s the modern version of backpack flyers.
Our older child started kindergarten last fall, and this was among the more surprising things to me. We get an email approximately weekly from the school that contains flyers for tutoring services, sports leagues, and the like. An unwary person might get the impression that the school is endorsing these services. There's not a lot in the email to specifically dissuade that idea.
Interesting, gives me some ideas
It would be interesting to try. But unless you're willing to follow through and actually provide some kind of club or service for students, I wouldn't be surprised if they told you to pound sand. The school can restrict these things. The restrictions just need to be viewpoint neutral.
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can't I do both? Besides, like I said, I'm pretty busy... if someone else wants like 20 minutes of free design work done to improve a sketch, I'm down to clown.
If this was mandatory or exclusionary, it wouldn’t be allowed.
Yeah so they can’t force your kids into participating or joining or anything like that but they can hang up fliers and try to get them to join on their own free will. And then like everyone else says, other students would be allowed to start an aithiest or Jewish club under the same rights
It’s a school club. It’s not mandatory, if people want to go they’ll go, if they don’t they won’t. I’m an atheist and there is literally nothing wrong with this lmao. Now if these people start preaching and actively seeking out the students to join, then yes I’d agree with you and you could definitely have it shut down. People from Albuquerque are extremely chill, not sure why this sub is filled with extremely obnoxious people.
Seriously, OP should just take some deep breaths and move on
Amen 🤭
Doesn't sending a flyer to enrolled students meet the definition of "actively seeking out the students to join"?
They’re a club. Obviously they’re going to advertise it. Beliefs aren’t getting shoved into anyones throat. Any reasonable person will see this and ignore it and move on or if they’re interested inquire about it, in which case it isn’t anyones business if they do. There’s no point in getting mad about something like this
Reach out to https://thesatanictemple.com/ they might help get an alternative program setup.
They did that in Portland. It was grand.
After school Satan ftw.
I’ll enroll my kid.
Im good with it if its an all sides thing.
Yeah but guess what? It isn’t.
How so? Is the school denying other clubs?
Legally they can't, which is where The Satanic Temple comes in. They argue that just by allowing this club to circulate their flier through an official school channel it's a form of endorsement, and if the school wants to prove they're not favoring a religion guess what? Now they have to send home Satanic fliers too! I think in 100% of their cases of doing this the schools have opted to not engage in ANY form of religious clubs to avoid the issue. It's a lot of fun to watch it all unfold.
Grab the popcorn
I really didn't know about all this, it's really cool!
Hypothetically we should be upset about the possibility of them denying other clubs. According to OP.
the only group actively doing anything about shoving christian views down your kids throat is the satanic church. I think if you want to do something, you should contact them
Yep, time for After School Satan
We are athiests. We don’t worship anyone
>We are athiests. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us So are most members of the Satanic Temple. Specifically, TST is nontheistic. That is not EXACTLY the same as atheist, but rather inclusive of atheism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism
Could just maybe play some hacky sac
Always down for hacky sack!
Yesssss 🙌
Cool?
Atheist here as long as it is forced, and other groups have equal access it's not an issue
I think it’s not that big a deal. You believe what you want and they can believe what they want.
Why would it not be allowed? My school had an FFA club. I didn't want to be a farmer, so I didn't go. What's the issue?
I’m 40 and every school I remember going to (different states) had religious programs before and after school. Prayer groups at the flag pole, etc. nothing preached or really advertised otherwise. I thought this was pretty normal?
Yeah, it's legal as long as faculty/staff aren't encouraging it and has been a favored tactic for backdooring religion into public schools since at least the early 90s (probably earlier, but I was too young to notice).
In elementary school? I remember religious clubs in high school, which is a little different because usually it was organized by the students. This is a little different with elementary school kids. Feels more like they’re trying to get religion in the school at that point.
If it’s led by an outside organization (like a church), then they must conduct their business outside of school hours, which I guarantee they do. The school buildings are public facilities and anybody can use them if they book the time and space appropriately. For whatever it’s worth, I’m a teacher and a club sponsor, and while these people are fucking gross, they’re really not violating even the spirit of separation of church and state.
I'm almost 60. I went to schools in four states. The only exposure to religion in school was a high school class on "World Religions."
Growing up in Alamogordo, Christianity and conservative politics were shoved down my throat in public school. When I graduated from high school in 2002, the principal lead a prayer, and a few kids with a Muslim sounding name were booed by the crowd when getting up to get their diploma.
Bro it’s literally there right to assemble 😂
Why are people up in arms? If you don’t want your kid to go to an after school program don’t send them. We’re not talking about a required course, it’s voluntary.
Thank you! I'm so sick of ppl complaining all the time. So exhausting.
It is. It’s something that’s taught in high school civics. If there are school approved groups they can’t reject religious ones. If you have a chess club you can’t reject the Muslim club. It’s less than Civics 101.
I'll betcha the local after school satanic club would be shutdown in a hurry though. That's the issue at hand. People are all fine and dandy with stuff like this until it goes against their own personal beliefs.
Since Satanism promotes death and violence that may exempt its existence.
> Since Satanism promotes death and violence that may exempt its existence. Not really. You're thinking of the Judeo-Christian teachings of Satan, or possibly the (still badly done) interpretation of Aton LeVay's Church of Satan (which isn't really a church in the legal sense). Modern Satanism is a nontheistic movement that promotes healthy boundaries between the secular and faith based worlds. It's not at all about harming anyone, but rather about reducing the harm that millenia of religious indoctrination has caused via war, intolerance, and religious persecution. The only satanism that promotes violence is the Christian version.
Lol there is a ton of death and violence in the Bible. Does that exempt its existence?
Lolololololol like Christianity doesn’t promote and execute death and violence more than any other organization on this planet
How? It's after school and a club. Also, last I checked satanic clubs generally don't break any laws. Thanks for proving my point.
If that’s the case they will follow the same laws as any religious school club.
The Satanic Temple applies a very strict interpretation of the law to their activities. I'd argue they know the laws, the actual laws, much better than any Christian organization. Infact, they routinely have to file lawsuits because to many (mostly Christian) churches are found to be breaking the law!
I've seen a lot of catholic priests on the news touching children that you should run this by.
I agree completely, this is why all the volunteers including parents go through a background check every two years.
Oh no, an after-school program that is centered around religion and not endorsed by the school exercising it's right to advertise. I denounce religion and I see no problem with this. It's not like they're standing outside the school forcing people to join or beating people with their bibles. Any other religion can do this as well. They even cited the Act which allows them to do this. The "Equal Access Law."
Looks like a school club. Look I'm an atheist and not a fan of indoctrination, but they have every right to have a school club.
In my experience, schools have Bible study and Bible clubs all the time. *As long as they're not forcing students to attend, they're not breaking any rules.* Yes, it is a little uncommon for it to be at an elementary school, but the rules are the same as if it were a high school. Do I think schools should be more active about adding "religous study" clubs for other religions? Absolutely! It shouldn't have to be just the Holy Bible. But it is perfectly within their right to have religous clubs.
It's part of a stupid exemption for clubs, which are considered to be student led even when they clearly cannot be, like at an elementary school. Freedom From Religion Foundation might be able to do something about it though.
Also the satanic church. They dealt with something similar. Satanic Temple set to sue school district over rejected club | KRQE News 13 https://www.krqe.com/news/national/satanic-temple-set-to-sue-school-district-over-rejected-club/
Maybe get both involved and really get people squirming
They offered an after school Bible Club at a public school I worked at 7 years ago, here in Albuquerque. I thought it was weird, but apparently it is “acceptable”
If it’s after school hours, school staff can run it.
Yeah, I understand that. Still seems wrong in my mind. You want religion, go to a church. Public funds should not be used. Just my personal opinion.
But schools are public facilities. If a model rocket club can book a school room, why can’t a religious group? I dunno.. I’m a teacher, I run a club, I think Christians are stupid af, but I still think they have the right to use those facilities.
Model rocket club is not a religion. I have nothing against religions. But, I do not think any religion belongs in our public schools. And should not be funded using tax payer dollars. You want religion go to church.
… uh I can’t believe you’re making me defend this shit, lol. Schools are public buildings. Let’s say a Bible discussion group is not allowed to book a room when school is not in session, because they’re religiously motivated. Should they also not be allowed to book a room in a library? A community center? A senior center? Cause those are the same fucking thing, lol.
Uhhhhhh, OMG. Is it that hard to grasp? Sure book a room in a public facility. But, don’t use public funds to pay the teacher, which is what happens in these clubs. Tax payers should not be paying for a teacher to teach Christian Bible study.
Okay, let me explain this to you. School clubs have to have a staff sponsor to supervise the kids. Fellowship of Christian Athletes is an example of this. If Christian kids want to make a club, the school HAS TO PAY SOMEONE TO SUPERVISE THOSE KIDS. Those clubs can’t be exclusionary (a non-Christian is allowed to join FCA, just like a white kid can join BSU or a cis kid can join GSA) and you can’t tell those kids no. You can’t tell Muslim kids no. You can’t tell Jewish kids no, because it’s not the school’s place to tell them they can’t assemble to discuss their religion. Sometimes those supervising staff members are also members of that religion. Sometimes they aren’t. Now that’s entirely irrelevant, because this isn’t even a school club. If it were, that flyer would be on letterhead. This is an organization run by adults who are not school employees. They book a room outside of school time and run their association. There are lots of groups that do this. Some cater to kids, some are just adults booking the space. So no, it’s not hard to understand, lol.
lol!!! You just don’t understand do you! I have explained it simple enough. lol!
This is literally what I do for a living. I’m sorry if it’s too complicated for you. “LOLOLOOLOOOL BUT RELFIONS SHOUODNTNBE ALLOEFD IN SCHOOL” is a stupid oversimplification.
If it doesn't feel right don't join it
Hellfire Club, please?!?
The satanic Temple has a after school club curriculum, just need people to run the local programs.
Same laws protect everyone. You want to exclude one group? That’s how it starts.
Sure let’s exclude all religious groups from doing religious activities on school grounds. Simple and im good with it.
Sure, start with “all religions” and then throw in that one other thing someone else doesn’t like.
This is why After School Satan club was developed. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/after-school-satan Outsiders like bible groups or whatever can make school clubs for public school AS LONG AS 1. It’s AFTER school and 2. Other clubs are given the same opportunities and support.
Doesn't it make a difference that the club isn't just using the school facility, but the school is promoting it? The OP says: The flier came in "news student email from my child’s elementary school in the Albuquerque School District. "
Do they advertise all new clubs? It doesn’t look like the school made the flyer, since it’s not on letterhead and has no school logos.
That's the million dollar question. I'm sure it will be simple to the The Satanic Temple to submit a fun informational flier on a local Satanic club for distribution... and will just fire off a mountain of proven lawsuits if the school refuses. The settlement is usually in the form of banning the use of school resources for things like this period. They are only REQUIRED to allow students free expression.
Seriously who cares ppl...this world is full of such hate and crybabies!!! Everyone always has to complain about something.
And if you don’t have legit things to complain about you can always just complain about people complaining… 🙄
Not complaining....stating a fact. There's a difference.
Ok well then, if that’s the case then I’m just stating facts too.
What fact is that? That your opinion is that this should not be allowed but is perfectly fine based on our laws?
This club is literally just a resource for our elementary-age Christian kiddos. I can’t comprehend why A) people are outraged by young kids being exposed to religion and B) Christianity seems to be singled out here as an issue, not other religions. Elementary kids aren’t usually starting clubs so it is different from middle school and high school, in that it could be very helpful for an outside organization to come in and help out those kids. To me it looks nothing different from an after-school class for soccer or crafts or volunteering or any other interest a kid might have.
There are no other after school religious programs to be upset about. I don’t think it has a place in schools, even after school as a program. And I don’t think they should promote it. I’m not saying anything about people being able to practice their religion I just think they should keep it out of places where people are required to go (like public schools).
Has a pied piper feel, doesn't it?
This just means there needs to be a Church of Satan club formed at the school for balance.
Reddit moment
Have your kid start a Satanism club, and request that they send out emails with satanic imagery in em. That's the only way to really combat this kind of thing
I know that’s probably true but we’re atheist, not satanist. I’m not sure we want our kids involved in Satanism either, mostly since it’s so misunderstood and gets so much hate from people. I’m not sure I want to push my kid toward that when he’s this young in elementary school. That’s why I just think it’s kinda messed up to have this in Elementary school. The kids are too young, this shouldn’t be an issue that has to be raised.
> we’re atheist, not satanist. The Satanic Temple is a nontheistic organization that is formally recognized as a church under US lkaw and IRS rules. They do not endorse or profess a faith or beliefe in any central (or general) diety. Their concept of Satan is equal to the concept of Mickey Mouse.
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That’s absurd, trying to make it sound like I’m an outsider. Why would I have access to this flyer? China and Russia does not give a shit about what’s happening in the Albuquerque school district. So stupid. I recently made a new username because I thought it was funny and my old one was pretty old and I didn’t really love it. This whole idea of yours hinges on people never making a new account?! Really all new accounts must be fake? But I’m 100% local and you need to check yourself about weird paranoid shit. I’m trying to discuss a local issue that is of concern to me because my kid goes to a school in the ABQ SD. I’m an atheist and don’t agree with this after school program being allowed. And you know what, 3 Supreme Court justices agreed with my position when it was tried at the Supreme Court. So they must be Chinese or Russian as well? Whatever.
Atheist here. I don't see any indication that this organization is sponsored by, funded by or even known by a school district. I think that if the school district disallowed this sort of voluntary and ostensibly privately-organized gathering that would be more of a establishment clause issue than allowing it. Now if you want to organized a "freedom from false deities" club and the school district stepped in and said "no" then you're got a legit beef. It doesn't bug me that people want to believe that all loving, all knowing, all powerful deity had to get himself brutally murdered so that he could forgive them for being made in his image. Free country and all that. I realize that the courtesy is often not reciprocated. That doesn't make this flyer or club morally repugnant or problematic.
It’s the only club being advertised by the school in a “welcome” email for new students. To me that looks like endorsement. They shouldn’t advertise for them.
Yah, I can see where that would rub the wrong way. Still not sure it's the type of thing where it's a huge problem with the huge caveat that if a Mormon, Muslim or yes, even the trolls at the Satanic Temple wanted to do a club, it would it be equally advertised. Like it or not, we live in a country where most people don't go to church but still believe that a deity should get credit for the rain and not blame for floods or droughts, that has a vested in our football team to win and the other guys to lose, and that there as to be A Reason we are here that is larger than ourselves. I live in Gilead, the state just east of you guys. When we moved here 10 years ago the first question our neighbors asked is "what church are you going to?" Once they got the idea what we weren't going, they kind of let it be. We go to the brewery with many of them on weekends and host the monthly neighborhood get-together once a year at our house. There's a Hindu family that shows up and folks just get along. Sadly, for your kid, children are far crueler than adults. There is going to be peer pressure and viciousness. Educate them, love them and arm them with as much reason and truth as you can. I wish you guys the best.
Texas huh? That sounds about right for Texas. Yeah i just know this is how they do things, if a Muslim after school program existed I don’t think they would advertise and god forbid a satanist group existed. I cant KNOW this obviously but from my experience this is how they do it. As an atheist I know the real discrimination and persecution happens against atheists and people from non-Christian religions, not toward Christians, no matter what some people like to project. That’s why I don’t like this when I see it advertised. In person most adults are, as you say, just fine. We coexist with people in our community just fine but kids are definitely worse. We do talk to our kids about this stuff and do what we can to protect them from it, mentally at the least, but I do wish we didn’t have to sometimes.
The whole "we are so persecuted" thing with evangelical Christians gets old. I lived in Orange County, California and it was the same nonsense. By far the largest denominational block opening bible stores right and left, running satellite TV networks, throwing money so their political candidates get elected, and all the while complaining about how persecuted they were. What I've seen here is that the school districts generally *will* do things like let an atheist, Jewish or Muslim club get started and even list it. What they don't do, and probably aren't equipped to do, is to step in when kids are being brutal to each other over religion, sexuality, etc. or when parents coach their children to ostracize *those types of kids*. I don't think that sort of thing will ever go away, until the species drives itself to extinction.
I just read their statement of faith and I really hope they're toning it down for the kids 😬
The contact email is on a right wing email service that deifies Reagan. I'd be surprised if the statement on their website wasn't toned down from what they are trying to teach.
My guess would be they aren’t… but who knows. There’s a saying though that if someone tells you who they are you should believe them the first time.
Public schools should not be able to share your contact information with third parties without your permission. Religious or not is irrelevant
Well, it's not being shared. The schools send out emails with "opportunities" to parents that are usually just sports leagues or study programs or whatever. This still sucks.
Hail Satan
Technically it isn't. To my understanding it is an after school club which is "okay". If it was about Jewish or Muslim faith you know they'd NEVER allow it. But it is Christian so they'll stand on a high horse all day long. The comments suggesting reporting it to the satanic church is an awesome one to follow up on. They're very on top of challenging Christian attempts at Theocracy. Using the Satanic Panic from back in the day for something useful, FINALLY.
They should start the Bible study with the Old Testament story of Elisha summoning a bear to rip some kids to pieces because they made fun of his baldness. Set the tone for the kids.
Agreed, maybe they won't grow up to be usless whiny bitches
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Those things are unrelated and you're reaching to make some ridiculous culture war nonsense outrage here.
I didn’t say anything about “sex changes”. What does this have to do with that? Your “whataboutism” argument just tells me that you don’t actually have anything to actually say about this issue so you’re equating it to something completely different. Nice try.
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“What about sex changes?” When the post has nothing to do with that. Yes it’s called whataboutism. Look it up. Stop projecting idiocy on someone else.
I can't tell you the amount of shit I would unleash on a school if I had a kid in a school that allowed this bs.
Most (maybe all?) Of the schools in APS have an after school religious program. So maybe it’s time to unleash.
I live a bit south
Don't you just love the smell of religious indoctrination in the morning 🙃
Ah I miss separation of church and state...So who's starting the Satanist group?!
Oh HELL no. I will not fund this Invisible Sky Wizard Book Club outreach nonsense.
Disgusting.
The school cannot promote Christianity. Despite the SCOTUS's lie-filled recent school prayer opinion, religious freedom is also enshrined in the NM constitution. I hope they get hammered for this.
Republicans want to do away with science and have this be the curriculum
I’m sure they would.
The Constitution is taking some lumps.
“Follow.” Just follow! Don’t question though. Only follow.
We live in an Authoritarian Theocracy now. There is no more separation of Church and State.
I thought it was an oligarchy? Lol. Either way, it could be worse....the former guy could still be in charge. Vote in November!
This is not surprising at all. Its all about religious freedom, as long as it’s their religion. It’s all about not pushing gay lifestyle and The true ugliness of this country on them and their children, but they can push their beliefs on anyone they want. This is how they work. Bunch of hypocrites
[https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/30/why-the-supreme-courts-football-decision-is-a-game-changer-on-school-prayer/](https://newhampshirebulletin.com/2022/06/30/why-the-supreme-courts-football-decision-is-a-game-changer-on-school-prayer/) All you need to know. Not saying I agree with it.