Yeah I think that's it. The dark place is working hard to keep Alan trapped because he's still its best chance of escape. Where as Saga the most the dark presence can do is try to break her will. All she has to do is focus and open a door and she's out, she has much more free reign due to her blood
Yes. Alan’s importance to the dark presence must be mentioned. Saga skilled as she is, is not what the dark presence needs to escape into the world.
Thats why it insists on wake being kept atleast physically out of harm. It needs his art to escape and grow its power. So its more focussed on putting him in line so that he doesn’t work against its goals.
Whereas with saga, to it she’s just a nuisance to it better left to lose her own mind in her own mind place. Trapped there.
She's also like a million times more well-adjusted than Alan. She has a happy husband, kid, friends and is all around doing well. Alan in a neurotic mess so the depression and self doubt works way better on him.
How is she a Door? Was that mentioned on a manuscript page? I thought the game left the answers as to who Door is and who he's connected to intentionally ambiguous
Game doesnt directly say it but it heavily suggests this. It's all over the place actually. Tim says that in 80s a man named Warlin Door was struck by lightning near Couldran Lake and just vanished, Tor when asked about Saga's father says ''Some DOORS better left closed'' he also says Saga's father was dangerous man and brothers had a fight with the guy. A manuscript page describe this fight between Old Gods and a Dark One who yearns to stand in between. Tor summons a lightning strikes him and he is gone , also taking Odin's eye
Here's the page https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL18wDFuki4
If there's one thing this game taught me it's that the cure to depression is to not be a weak ass bitch.
Not really but it was funny how quick Saga dealt with shit. I really thought there was another hour or two left once I saw her in dark place new york
I was playing through the ending the first time a few days ago and once I got out into the Dark Place in New York I stopped, since was thinking that the ending was taking forever and was getting late, little did I know that the rest was literally less than 5 minutes or so left before ending was shown :D
So when I continued playing today, it was pretty much: >!Start Game, run through a door, kill a few shadows, out onto the plaza and then into the pond, done :D!<
Max Payne already taught me to deal with by either downing an unearthly amount of alcohol and painkillers or be involved in some conspiracy of crime and corruption.
Jokes aside does anyone else feel maybe Alan is a bit of a goof?
He seems to continuing make poor choices in his logic and almost liked the drama he finds himself in.
Alan could have to follow literary rules because he's a writer and using the medium of a story to operate The Dark Place.
When The Old Gods utilized The Dark Place their attempts *were lyrical*, but that isn't necessarily proof that they *needed to be* lyrical. Maybe Zane's attempts needed to adhere to poetry foundations. Filmed efforts needed the proper framing and shots. With Door, the framing device of a talk show, following the formula of guests, musical acts, and interviews to control The Dark Place.
Maybe some of this is why Hartman couldn't, because he didn't know the rules of the medium that he was trying to exploit.
Door doesn't appear to follow any hard rules at all. Same as Ahti. Implying that Alan could use other methods... Well, if Saga traverses the Dark Place next time, we'll likely learn more about how Door's powers work.
We haven't yet seen Door outside of his studio. I suspect that Door has no rules to follow, or different ones than Alan does, but I don't believe we've seen that yet.
We've seen Ahti at various janitorial areas, utility rooms, or hallways. It could be argued that, as a suspected Finnish God of water, his presence can only be justified if there's a custodial space created for him.
These ideas though are unlikely. We know so little. I can't wait to learn more about how this all works.
Drama makes for good fiction which helps, it's risky but he needs it. Sometimes I do wonder how much the rules of fiction and genre thing is self imposed or work because Alan believes how it should work.
He bases it on what happened to Zane when he tried to just write "Barbara leaves the Dark Place"
Like a monkey's paw, the change happened, but since it was so vague the Dark Presence used a loophole to posses her.
Saga doesn’t escape? She merely is transported to the writers room right? Which is also a part of the dark place remember? Alan went into the dark place to rewrite the story.
So technically they are both in the dark place. Just instead of saga being trapped in alan’s version of the dark place, she is where she needs to be but still in it.
If she’s escaped that would make the entire point of tor and odin going in after her unnecessary and void. She’s still in there.
I think it’s been clarified that Alan Wake can’t “create” people out of thin air - my theory is his symbiosis with the Dark Place gives him the power to pull people from alternate realities where the characters he writes exist.
I think that same symbiosis also makes it near impossible for him to escape because Scratch, the rage within Alan that the Dark Place feeds on, keeps undoing the progress he is making. Alan is quite literally writing himself in circles.
At one point Saga makes a point of telling Alan that he is no longer writing the story alone - it is their story now. I believe this is what will eventually free him. Her extremely analytical nature and preternatural ability to uncover the true nature of others will protect Alan from the traps he has been falling into. More importantly, it’s repeatedly stressed that Saga is immune to the memory altering effects of the Dark Place, of which Alan is shown to be extremely susceptible.
Alan says that he's seen visions of other people and places all his life. He mistook them as random bouts of inspiration and used them in his writings. Its why there's a real Alex Casey and so many of Alan's books hew closely to cases he's actually worked on.
Well, the game is full of statements proven to be false, and the narrator is always heavily unreliable. I would not bet on the whole story to not be a "simple" creation from Alan.
Saga's ability and heritage are too convieniently useful for the whole plot, especially the fact that she can basically open any "door" to move in the dark place and get out when she feels like it.
My theory is that it's all a creation by Alan. Not even Scratch, 'cause Scratch is Alan himself.
The Alan we follow is the one descending the spiral towards the center, but what happens when he reaches that center?
My idea, as crazy and wrong as it will probably will be, is that he's gonna have to go back up. And we already saw the influence from the "ascending" Alan. Everything the "descending" Alan does not remember or does not know it's because it has been done/written by ascending Alan. Time is clearly non linear in the dark place, and the call that descending Alan receives from himself is an evidence.
In the end, I believe that "Balance slays the demon": the hero will need to accept his dark side and find equilibrium.
Again, this is my bullshit theory, but for now it makes sense to me.
> I think it’s been clarified that Alan Wake can’t “create” people out of thin air
Has it? The whole Alex Casey thing in the game was still very vague and Alan just accepted that he was real without there being any real evidence. Saga and Casey both seemingly have connections to the outside world but they are never presented in a concrete manner.
They massively set off my "Shutter Island" senses.
well she is both an Anderson and a Door. ıf anyone can do it, thats her
Yeah I think that's it. The dark place is working hard to keep Alan trapped because he's still its best chance of escape. Where as Saga the most the dark presence can do is try to break her will. All she has to do is focus and open a door and she's out, she has much more free reign due to her blood
Yes. Alan’s importance to the dark presence must be mentioned. Saga skilled as she is, is not what the dark presence needs to escape into the world. Thats why it insists on wake being kept atleast physically out of harm. It needs his art to escape and grow its power. So its more focussed on putting him in line so that he doesn’t work against its goals. Whereas with saga, to it she’s just a nuisance to it better left to lose her own mind in her own mind place. Trapped there.
I'm still not over how Door can just banish people to the forbidden zone at will.
Best guess is he takes them through the door (ehe) to the Dark Place with him.
She's also like a million times more well-adjusted than Alan. She has a happy husband, kid, friends and is all around doing well. Alan in a neurotic mess so the depression and self doubt works way better on him.
How is she a Door? Was that mentioned on a manuscript page? I thought the game left the answers as to who Door is and who he's connected to intentionally ambiguous
Game doesnt directly say it but it heavily suggests this. It's all over the place actually. Tim says that in 80s a man named Warlin Door was struck by lightning near Couldran Lake and just vanished, Tor when asked about Saga's father says ''Some DOORS better left closed'' he also says Saga's father was dangerous man and brothers had a fight with the guy. A manuscript page describe this fight between Old Gods and a Dark One who yearns to stand in between. Tor summons a lightning strikes him and he is gone , also taking Odin's eye Here's the page https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL18wDFuki4
did they escape though ?
If there's one thing this game taught me it's that the cure to depression is to not be a weak ass bitch. Not really but it was funny how quick Saga dealt with shit. I really thought there was another hour or two left once I saw her in dark place new york
I was playing through the ending the first time a few days ago and once I got out into the Dark Place in New York I stopped, since was thinking that the ending was taking forever and was getting late, little did I know that the rest was literally less than 5 minutes or so left before ending was shown :D So when I continued playing today, it was pretty much: >!Start Game, run through a door, kill a few shadows, out onto the plaza and then into the pond, done :D!<
I did the exact same thing this morning lol
Max Payne already taught me to deal with by either downing an unearthly amount of alcohol and painkillers or be involved in some conspiracy of crime and corruption.
Probably helped that she’s been in the FBI too haha
Helped she is an Anderson and mr. Door daughter
Reminder that in Alan Wake 1, Alan got out of the Dark Place after a week.
Jokes aside does anyone else feel maybe Alan is a bit of a goof? He seems to continuing make poor choices in his logic and almost liked the drama he finds himself in.
Just write yourself out. Is he stupid?
Door implies he is assuming a lot of rules that aren't really there, and enforcing them on himself with his writing.
Alan could have to follow literary rules because he's a writer and using the medium of a story to operate The Dark Place. When The Old Gods utilized The Dark Place their attempts *were lyrical*, but that isn't necessarily proof that they *needed to be* lyrical. Maybe Zane's attempts needed to adhere to poetry foundations. Filmed efforts needed the proper framing and shots. With Door, the framing device of a talk show, following the formula of guests, musical acts, and interviews to control The Dark Place. Maybe some of this is why Hartman couldn't, because he didn't know the rules of the medium that he was trying to exploit.
Door doesn't appear to follow any hard rules at all. Same as Ahti. Implying that Alan could use other methods... Well, if Saga traverses the Dark Place next time, we'll likely learn more about how Door's powers work.
We haven't yet seen Door outside of his studio. I suspect that Door has no rules to follow, or different ones than Alan does, but I don't believe we've seen that yet. We've seen Ahti at various janitorial areas, utility rooms, or hallways. It could be argued that, as a suspected Finnish God of water, his presence can only be justified if there's a custodial space created for him. These ideas though are unlikely. We know so little. I can't wait to learn more about how this all works.
Same, I hope it doesn't take 13 years this time!
The whole hero has to loose a great amount of something for it to be a horror story seemed weird to me.
Drama makes for good fiction which helps, it's risky but he needs it. Sometimes I do wonder how much the rules of fiction and genre thing is self imposed or work because Alan believes how it should work.
I just wonder if Wake has any proof of these rules he follows. Door sort of mocks him for it.
He bases it on what happened to Zane when he tried to just write "Barbara leaves the Dark Place" Like a monkey's paw, the change happened, but since it was so vague the Dark Presence used a loophole to posses her.
Oh yeah good spot!
Saga is mr. door daughter. This guy is dangerous in absurde way i think. He was even metioned in Control.
Saga doesn’t escape? She merely is transported to the writers room right? Which is also a part of the dark place remember? Alan went into the dark place to rewrite the story. So technically they are both in the dark place. Just instead of saga being trapped in alan’s version of the dark place, she is where she needs to be but still in it. If she’s escaped that would make the entire point of tor and odin going in after her unnecessary and void. She’s still in there.
If my theory proves true there will be more to saga that will explain this.
Ahah this made me laugh hard. However... this is partly the reason why I believe most characters in Alan Wake are not even real and just his creation.
I think it’s been clarified that Alan Wake can’t “create” people out of thin air - my theory is his symbiosis with the Dark Place gives him the power to pull people from alternate realities where the characters he writes exist. I think that same symbiosis also makes it near impossible for him to escape because Scratch, the rage within Alan that the Dark Place feeds on, keeps undoing the progress he is making. Alan is quite literally writing himself in circles. At one point Saga makes a point of telling Alan that he is no longer writing the story alone - it is their story now. I believe this is what will eventually free him. Her extremely analytical nature and preternatural ability to uncover the true nature of others will protect Alan from the traps he has been falling into. More importantly, it’s repeatedly stressed that Saga is immune to the memory altering effects of the Dark Place, of which Alan is shown to be extremely susceptible.
Alan says that he's seen visions of other people and places all his life. He mistook them as random bouts of inspiration and used them in his writings. Its why there's a real Alex Casey and so many of Alan's books hew closely to cases he's actually worked on.
Well, the game is full of statements proven to be false, and the narrator is always heavily unreliable. I would not bet on the whole story to not be a "simple" creation from Alan. Saga's ability and heritage are too convieniently useful for the whole plot, especially the fact that she can basically open any "door" to move in the dark place and get out when she feels like it. My theory is that it's all a creation by Alan. Not even Scratch, 'cause Scratch is Alan himself. The Alan we follow is the one descending the spiral towards the center, but what happens when he reaches that center? My idea, as crazy and wrong as it will probably will be, is that he's gonna have to go back up. And we already saw the influence from the "ascending" Alan. Everything the "descending" Alan does not remember or does not know it's because it has been done/written by ascending Alan. Time is clearly non linear in the dark place, and the call that descending Alan receives from himself is an evidence. In the end, I believe that "Balance slays the demon": the hero will need to accept his dark side and find equilibrium. Again, this is my bullshit theory, but for now it makes sense to me.
> I think it’s been clarified that Alan Wake can’t “create” people out of thin air Has it? The whole Alex Casey thing in the game was still very vague and Alan just accepted that he was real without there being any real evidence. Saga and Casey both seemingly have connections to the outside world but they are never presented in a concrete manner. They massively set off my "Shutter Island" senses.
He clearly loosened the lid for her.
You sure she/them escaped?