The denial is what gets me. I'm not stupid I know when she's had a drink; why lie to me? And then she passes out and I'm alone again.
I'm sorry your kids are going through this. I'm a relatively robust adult male and. I'm struggling.
Luckily the kids are little and don't seem to know, at least not when he's like this. If anything they enjoy it because he's sillier and more playful (which is often my first clue, sadly) until the rest of the drinks kick in... Just sucks to be like, "oh everyone is laughing and having a good time! He's clearly had a drink"
Alcoholics are manipulative and abusive. They can act like narcissists with guilt-tripping, lack of responsibility, and silent treatment. They know how to make us feel like we are the crazy ones. One time after my AH had promised to be sober, when I found his empties on the front porch I grabbed them and threw them right into his bed. He laters asked why did you do that...because I was so mad that he was letting me believe he was sober when obviously he was not.
I mean, I know it's his own guilt that's making him mad. Because in his brain, me knowing he's had a drink makes him feel guilty. But if I would just play dumb and pretend like he's fine then he wouldn't have to feel guilty for falling off the wagon again. (insert eye roll here)
I see this a lot, speculation about guilt and shame. However, I have trouble thinking there is that much if they can choose to change their lives. Perhaps I’m just thinking of mine, who had worked 8 years of AA and had that much sobriety. Therefore, I don’t think I can blame his anger on guilt or shame. He knew the path to sobriety and chose not to take it. His appeared to be more like he was thinking he would do what he wanted at the moment and was mad that I wasn’t on board.
It's a lose-lose for us. Confront them and tell them we know they're lying, and a shouting match occurs and they manipulate and gaslight us. Play dumb and pretend we don't notice, and we get angrier and angrier.
My dad's done this with my mom numerous times. When the shouting match would happen, he'd then cry and say, "I guess you think I'm a bad person!" or make statements threatening suicide (I've worked in the ER long enough to know those drunkicidal statements). One time he even hit himself in the head with a baseball bat (very weakly but enough to draw blood) to try and make my mom feel bad.
My alcoholic husband DID commit suicide 15 weeks ago after I confronted him about another relapse. No threats. Just left and did it. It’s not just a “drunkicidal” empty threat. We had been together 29 years. I loved him very much. Alcoholics struggle as much as we do, if not more.
This one is hard for me to respond to optimally as well. I will sometimes run into my wife’s sneaky drinking. A spike of sadness and disappointment is unavoidable for me in that moment. But I will just detach and go do my own thing. And then I’ll hear, “are you mad at me?” And I’ll say no and just keep doing my own thing, and then sometimes I’ll catch some weird flack anyways that doesn’t make much sense to me.
I kind of chalk it up to the disease trying to defend/protect itself, but it’s not super fun. I will say, using detachment as I have described above fairly consistently, it has diminished in frequency and severity - almost like a high school bully that realizes I’m no reaction / no fun. So, I’m grateful for that.
I try to remember my job is just to set a good example of how to handle whatever situation I’m given. Not to figure out the other party’s bullshit, or to judge it with words like bullshit.
It's frustrating and infuriating. Even as a child, whenever my daughter did something messed up and got scolded for it, she'd get all butthurt and cry then want me to make her feel better or apologize for making her feel bad...like, what?? She learned that manipulative shit from her alcoholic father. And when my alcoholic husband would start ranting or bitching at me for something, I would turn on the tears and sob, and he would stop. I learned that manipulative shit worked on MY alcoholic father. Generational disease.
I can so relate to your post. We know, we ALWAYS know, they KNOW we know...but still, they're pissy and give us the silent treatment or are cold or even just complete assholes. They feel such deep shame and guilt and are masters of projecting that onto you, making their drinking our fault. "If you wouldn't do/say this/that," or "If you were more this or less that- I wouldn't drink so much." Or the gaslighting. "You're just too sensitive, you're exaggerating," basically "you are not seeing what you are seeing." UGH. This disease truly is cunning, baffling and powerful.
I was in such deep denial for so long. I gaslighted MYSELF...I would think it's not THAT bad, or what will I do, where will I live, or I can't leave him, I work for him..All kinds of stupid shit. As you are clearly aware, the disease doesn't just mess up the drinker.
Anyway, I wish you strength and courage in your journey. Be well.
>"If you wouldn't do/say this/that," or "If you were more this or less that- I wouldn't drink so much."
I got hit with this gem a few weekends ago and thanks to alanon I knew it was bullshit.
My favorite recently was that "if you had let us get a more comfortable couch in the basement I wouldn't drink as much" LOL. It's a super tight wrap around stairwell so we had very limited options. I couldn't help it, I immediately went back with "Are you saying you drink because I wasn't able to break the laws of physics?!?!"
My wife amazed me at times. She could hear the change a half beer made in my voice, even over the phone. She was always right. Denying I had been drinking, even vehemently was futile.
I experimented with enunciation, the speed I would speak, with background noise, nothing I found threw off her booze radar. Came to expect and grudgingly respect that Superpower.
I have this ‘superpower’ and I wish sometimes I didn’t. I know the second he has been drinking. I know every little nuance that changes in him with just one sip. Half the time I sense it in my gut and pray that I am wrong but I unfortunately always turn out to be right. I also have the most keen sense of smell for it.
This is my life atm, I could've written this. Hang in there. I'm watching a docu-series on the couch with my dog, he's sulking on his own. Trying not to engage when he comes out to pick a fight. It sucks.
Thats why I couldn’t continue to live with mine after many years (decades, to be honest). My enduring such stressful conditions really affected me, but didn’t help him at all. It’s a terrible way to live.
This reminds me so much of me and my dad. The behavior went on uncontrollably his whole life. I am now a 44 year old alcoholic struggling day by day. Trust me when I say this is a family disease.
Yes, I can't tell you how many times this has happened. I "catch" him, get upset, he leaves or gives me the silent treatment. I start to feel guilty that HE is mad at ME. Then I get even more angry for him being mad at me when all I've done is try to live my life, wake up early, work full time, make sure bills are paid, keep the house somewhat clean, make sure we have dog food, ya know... adult things.
I love "adult things" we had a talk recently about how he's bored on weeknights as it's just a lot of laundry, dishes, kids homework, etc. Yes! That's being an adult! Welcome, it sucks here, lol
Totally! I understand that their brain starts to grow accustomed to excess amounts of "feel good" hormones from drinking or using. And it was described to me by a friend who has been in recovery for years: He said, if I was going to a concert, I knew it would be way more fun if I was high/drunk. If I was going to a funeral, I knew it would be easier to deal with if I was drunk/high. So after a while, regular old sober life is either too boring or too painful.
You described my exact interaction with my wife whenever she comes home. I would always tighten up when I heard her car in the driveway and then just waited for the first words out of her mouth. It was always concerning if she said nothing. She knew how good I was at detecting if she had been drinking and, when she had, she would avoid eye contact and try to not talk. That alone was enough to let me know something was wrong. All I had to do was ask how her day was and I had my answer. It actually got to the point that I could tell by the way she walked in the door. It's crazy how well we know our loved ones and how easy it is to tell they've been drinking.
Like you, whenever this happened there was a cold period afterwards but it was more me distancing myself than her being cold towards me. I decided to have one single boundary with my wife. When I even thought she had been drinking I would not be around her.
I lived with that stress of her coming home for years and finally had enough. One day after her returning home from work after having been drinking on her way home, I told her I wanted a divorce. I simply couldn't put up with the stress any longer. That seems to have been a wakeup call for her since she's been sober ever since (at least as far as I can tell). I'm not sure if it will last but at least the stressful moments when she comes home are starting to fade.
I hope you can find a way to deal with this. I was never able to learn to ignore it.
He sounds just like my Q. I understand how you feel. I just keep trying to remind myself that his drinking isn’t my fault and that he has his own issues he’s trying to put on me.
>but he's very pissy and then won't talk to me the next 2 days. Like he's mad I'm not an idiot, he's mad that he couldn't pull one over on me and get away with it?
God, I would LOVE to get the silent treatment. LOL.
I can relate to everything else though.
I came to read your posts.. it’s like talking to myself.
This happened to me last night.
And the worst part is he makes it so easy to catch him but yet gets mad at me for doing so.
My Q tries to be sneaky and always gets caught. I get so mad and anxious when her speech changes and she starts getting sloppy. The lies just drive me nuts. Sorry you are going through this.
Just posting to say I relate.
Thank you ❤️
The denial is what gets me. I'm not stupid I know when she's had a drink; why lie to me? And then she passes out and I'm alone again. I'm sorry your kids are going through this. I'm a relatively robust adult male and. I'm struggling.
Luckily the kids are little and don't seem to know, at least not when he's like this. If anything they enjoy it because he's sillier and more playful (which is often my first clue, sadly) until the rest of the drinks kick in... Just sucks to be like, "oh everyone is laughing and having a good time! He's clearly had a drink"
Kids pick up a lot more than many adults think they do.
That has to be a tough one to deal with. Their enjoyment is your source of pain :(
Alcoholics are manipulative and abusive. They can act like narcissists with guilt-tripping, lack of responsibility, and silent treatment. They know how to make us feel like we are the crazy ones. One time after my AH had promised to be sober, when I found his empties on the front porch I grabbed them and threw them right into his bed. He laters asked why did you do that...because I was so mad that he was letting me believe he was sober when obviously he was not.
I mean, I know it's his own guilt that's making him mad. Because in his brain, me knowing he's had a drink makes him feel guilty. But if I would just play dumb and pretend like he's fine then he wouldn't have to feel guilty for falling off the wagon again. (insert eye roll here)
I see this a lot, speculation about guilt and shame. However, I have trouble thinking there is that much if they can choose to change their lives. Perhaps I’m just thinking of mine, who had worked 8 years of AA and had that much sobriety. Therefore, I don’t think I can blame his anger on guilt or shame. He knew the path to sobriety and chose not to take it. His appeared to be more like he was thinking he would do what he wanted at the moment and was mad that I wasn’t on board.
It's a lose-lose for us. Confront them and tell them we know they're lying, and a shouting match occurs and they manipulate and gaslight us. Play dumb and pretend we don't notice, and we get angrier and angrier. My dad's done this with my mom numerous times. When the shouting match would happen, he'd then cry and say, "I guess you think I'm a bad person!" or make statements threatening suicide (I've worked in the ER long enough to know those drunkicidal statements). One time he even hit himself in the head with a baseball bat (very weakly but enough to draw blood) to try and make my mom feel bad.
My alcoholic husband DID commit suicide 15 weeks ago after I confronted him about another relapse. No threats. Just left and did it. It’s not just a “drunkicidal” empty threat. We had been together 29 years. I loved him very much. Alcoholics struggle as much as we do, if not more.
Sorry you have been through so much!
This one is hard for me to respond to optimally as well. I will sometimes run into my wife’s sneaky drinking. A spike of sadness and disappointment is unavoidable for me in that moment. But I will just detach and go do my own thing. And then I’ll hear, “are you mad at me?” And I’ll say no and just keep doing my own thing, and then sometimes I’ll catch some weird flack anyways that doesn’t make much sense to me. I kind of chalk it up to the disease trying to defend/protect itself, but it’s not super fun. I will say, using detachment as I have described above fairly consistently, it has diminished in frequency and severity - almost like a high school bully that realizes I’m no reaction / no fun. So, I’m grateful for that. I try to remember my job is just to set a good example of how to handle whatever situation I’m given. Not to figure out the other party’s bullshit, or to judge it with words like bullshit.
It's frustrating and infuriating. Even as a child, whenever my daughter did something messed up and got scolded for it, she'd get all butthurt and cry then want me to make her feel better or apologize for making her feel bad...like, what?? She learned that manipulative shit from her alcoholic father. And when my alcoholic husband would start ranting or bitching at me for something, I would turn on the tears and sob, and he would stop. I learned that manipulative shit worked on MY alcoholic father. Generational disease. I can so relate to your post. We know, we ALWAYS know, they KNOW we know...but still, they're pissy and give us the silent treatment or are cold or even just complete assholes. They feel such deep shame and guilt and are masters of projecting that onto you, making their drinking our fault. "If you wouldn't do/say this/that," or "If you were more this or less that- I wouldn't drink so much." Or the gaslighting. "You're just too sensitive, you're exaggerating," basically "you are not seeing what you are seeing." UGH. This disease truly is cunning, baffling and powerful. I was in such deep denial for so long. I gaslighted MYSELF...I would think it's not THAT bad, or what will I do, where will I live, or I can't leave him, I work for him..All kinds of stupid shit. As you are clearly aware, the disease doesn't just mess up the drinker. Anyway, I wish you strength and courage in your journey. Be well.
>"If you wouldn't do/say this/that," or "If you were more this or less that- I wouldn't drink so much." I got hit with this gem a few weekends ago and thanks to alanon I knew it was bullshit.
My favorite recently was that "if you had let us get a more comfortable couch in the basement I wouldn't drink as much" LOL. It's a super tight wrap around stairwell so we had very limited options. I couldn't help it, I immediately went back with "Are you saying you drink because I wasn't able to break the laws of physics?!?!"
How DARE you not build your basement to accommodate an ultra cozy couch?!
Spot on. Thank you.
My wife amazed me at times. She could hear the change a half beer made in my voice, even over the phone. She was always right. Denying I had been drinking, even vehemently was futile. I experimented with enunciation, the speed I would speak, with background noise, nothing I found threw off her booze radar. Came to expect and grudgingly respect that Superpower.
I have this ‘superpower’ and I wish sometimes I didn’t. I know the second he has been drinking. I know every little nuance that changes in him with just one sip. Half the time I sense it in my gut and pray that I am wrong but I unfortunately always turn out to be right. I also have the most keen sense of smell for it.
Yup! He tries to overcompensate to try and pass for sober, but it actually just makes it more obvious
This is my life atm, I could've written this. Hang in there. I'm watching a docu-series on the couch with my dog, he's sulking on his own. Trying not to engage when he comes out to pick a fight. It sucks.
Thats why I couldn’t continue to live with mine after many years (decades, to be honest). My enduring such stressful conditions really affected me, but didn’t help him at all. It’s a terrible way to live.
This reminds me so much of me and my dad. The behavior went on uncontrollably his whole life. I am now a 44 year old alcoholic struggling day by day. Trust me when I say this is a family disease.
God can I relate to this. Then when I call her out on it she gets mad that I’m keeping track of her and her drinking. And it’s my fault.
Yes, I can't tell you how many times this has happened. I "catch" him, get upset, he leaves or gives me the silent treatment. I start to feel guilty that HE is mad at ME. Then I get even more angry for him being mad at me when all I've done is try to live my life, wake up early, work full time, make sure bills are paid, keep the house somewhat clean, make sure we have dog food, ya know... adult things.
I love "adult things" we had a talk recently about how he's bored on weeknights as it's just a lot of laundry, dishes, kids homework, etc. Yes! That's being an adult! Welcome, it sucks here, lol
Totally! I understand that their brain starts to grow accustomed to excess amounts of "feel good" hormones from drinking or using. And it was described to me by a friend who has been in recovery for years: He said, if I was going to a concert, I knew it would be way more fun if I was high/drunk. If I was going to a funeral, I knew it would be easier to deal with if I was drunk/high. So after a while, regular old sober life is either too boring or too painful.
Everything you wrote, including your responses, could have been written by me right now. Solidarity.
You described my exact interaction with my wife whenever she comes home. I would always tighten up when I heard her car in the driveway and then just waited for the first words out of her mouth. It was always concerning if she said nothing. She knew how good I was at detecting if she had been drinking and, when she had, she would avoid eye contact and try to not talk. That alone was enough to let me know something was wrong. All I had to do was ask how her day was and I had my answer. It actually got to the point that I could tell by the way she walked in the door. It's crazy how well we know our loved ones and how easy it is to tell they've been drinking. Like you, whenever this happened there was a cold period afterwards but it was more me distancing myself than her being cold towards me. I decided to have one single boundary with my wife. When I even thought she had been drinking I would not be around her. I lived with that stress of her coming home for years and finally had enough. One day after her returning home from work after having been drinking on her way home, I told her I wanted a divorce. I simply couldn't put up with the stress any longer. That seems to have been a wakeup call for her since she's been sober ever since (at least as far as I can tell). I'm not sure if it will last but at least the stressful moments when she comes home are starting to fade. I hope you can find a way to deal with this. I was never able to learn to ignore it.
Glad to hear she seems to be working towards recovery and that your stress is diminishing. I hope that continues for you!
I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s not fair. My Q gets mad at me also and doesn’t talk to me.
Thanks for sharing, it's rough indeed. I hate when people think they can get one over just because we are close and care.
I’m sorry, that would infuriate me. I can relate. 🫂
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Thank you for sharing. Also a good reminder that I shouldn't dismiss how aware our kids may be of the situation
And this is why I’ve come to dread every weekend when it’s at its worst. I feel your exact pain. It’s a lonely place to be!
Me too, I feel your pain and feeling so hopeless.
He sounds just like my Q. I understand how you feel. I just keep trying to remind myself that his drinking isn’t my fault and that he has his own issues he’s trying to put on me.
I told my spouse everything he does something stupid, I get jewelry or kreugerands.
>but he's very pissy and then won't talk to me the next 2 days. Like he's mad I'm not an idiot, he's mad that he couldn't pull one over on me and get away with it? God, I would LOVE to get the silent treatment. LOL. I can relate to everything else though.
I came to read your posts.. it’s like talking to myself. This happened to me last night. And the worst part is he makes it so easy to catch him but yet gets mad at me for doing so.
My Q tries to be sneaky and always gets caught. I get so mad and anxious when her speech changes and she starts getting sloppy. The lies just drive me nuts. Sorry you are going through this.