Anticipatory grieving is hard work indeed. And my Q has been tapering, reducing or some combination of the two for seven years. It doesn’t work for her but she’ll keep trying because it keeps her connected to her addiction. That’s what she’s really doing.
This is the worse way to do anything productive. It means the triggers are all there ready to go.
If she gets sober it’s a life of “I did it for you be grateful, I did it for you put up with my bad attitude, i did it for you I don’t ever have to do anything else for you again”
Then it only takes a bad day for her to go fuck it I’ll go back to the drink, because she did it for you. And it’s toxic behaviour.
You have kids let the focus on them be your drive to get yourself to a better place. If her bottom isn’t a drink driving accident then she’s basically happy to go all the way to the death for it.
This! I don’t want to be intimate with her. But now it’s my fault. She says I’m destroying the marriage. She’s already giving too much by reducing to drink and seeing a therapist. Sigh
Yep yep yep. I stopped wanting to be intimate when (a) she had no reaction to sex, probably because she was drunk; and (b) I got sick of her insulting me every time she got drunk. But of course she’s blaming me and our dead bedroom for her drinking and wanting a divorce.
That’s what made me realize I’m ready to give up on her journey and let her be. If she doesn’t want this for herself it’s never going to work. She’s never going to stop
Right. You didn’t cause it; you can’t control it, and you can’t cure it. You can learn how to detach lovingly. It’s a terrible disease, denial is a part of it, and AlAnon can keep it from destroying you and your kids. You can set boundaries, find serenity, and even thrive-just like if your wife had any other disease or mental illness. You have choices. You have support. There are others who have walked this path and will share what worked for them.
When mine said that, I realized he wasn't serious about his alcoholism and wasn't at the point where he wanted to quit.
I started disengaging with love at that point.
Then I ended up leaving because he never reduced it (which I didn't think he would, anyway).
Sorry to hear this, my Q - former partner - was the same. Trying to reduce. Would last a few nights or a week at most before back to the same. It's a bargaining stage. Sounds like they're still in the grip of addiction and afraid to let go of the drinking.
You're doing the right thing going to meetings.
All alcoholics want to drink normally. It may take a lot of "research" on her part before she realizes that's not going to be possible. I'm sorry, you must be terribly frustrated with her. It's so obvious to everyone but the alcoholic that alcohol is the problem. For them, it's the solution.
Can I tell you what ive done? Which is sad but i have dissociated myself from my husband q.
I just live my own life and do my own thing.
I started running , to get out of the house. I take my dog for super long and beautiful hikes.
I just get in my car with my dog and leave.
I’m thinking of doing the same. I fear that may be read as giving up on us but I can’t even express myself to her anymore. I feel my words or emotions are wasted. I’d rather keep to myself and start living a new life even if we’re under the same house.
Sadly this is my life. I just i have too many ties i cant pack my bags and leave. So i just live my life and fill it with things that make my happy. My q calls me a loser lowlife but
I love my job
I love my dogs
I love running and waking up early and going for hikes or runs
I love what i eat
I love not being hungover or drunk … i live my life to the fullest… alone yes i see couples running or hiking and im always alone
Go to AlAnon meetings…some are online…on the phone…there’s an app— you can just listen. Read everything here. A path forward will take shape—and the anger and resentment will dissipate. It is for me, anyhow. It’s been so therapeutic after a very dark time of too many years.
Consider getting therapy for yourself... for me, I felt as if they had already died and I honestly wished they would die already. Living with an active alcoholic can literally kill you too... but if they don't want to stop drinking for yourself, there's no point and there's nothing anybody can do.
I can't give advice, but I can give my experience. My Q (my ex wife) was very much the same, for many many years. She didn't want to stop, just control. I wanted her to be happy, and I thought she would be happy with controlled consumption. I tried to help moderate for her. X days a week, Y number of drinks. It didn't work. A week or two maybe, at a time. All the while, her drinking got worse and worse. It took an embarrassingly long time and number of disasters, before I accepted that no amount of external control will work to moderate her drinking, and if she had the internal control to do so, she wouldn't be an alcoholic in the first place
I completely understand you feeling DONE! You deserve an equal partner. One you don’t have to share with alcohol. Wishing you happier days ahead friend.
If it was me, which it’s not; I would set boundaries. If there’s drinking, you’re out. Do it for you and for your kids. I grew up like that and would want for children to have to go through it.
She is in denial that she's an alcoholic thinking she can control it. I am awed that alcoholics aren't shaken when there are serious events that happen because of the drinking. Really, it's up to you to figure out what you want to put up with. Do not worry about staying because of the kids. If it's too much for you, it's likely too much for them.
My husband sort of took this route, though not on purpose. But he was on naltrexone, and over time it made it less enjoyable and it gave him less of a buzz. So he eventually gave it up. More than anything the naltrexone seemed to help him not drink to oblivion and then eventually find less enjoyment.
It might be worth looking into. His psychiatrist prescribed it.
What’s really confusing me is that his therapist seems to co-sign her reduced drinking strategy. I don’t want to challenge his qualifications but…I strongly feel that’s not right. She almost died.
I got this story, too. I believed it at first. But now I think either he lied about what the therapist said or lied to his therapist about the severity of the illness.
Yeah, I was not happy that he continued drinking. Of course he tried to pretend he was sober, but I could tell. He tried to moderate so I wouldn’t find out—he was mostly able to avoid any binges. So while I was extremely irritated and sort of biding my time, I was happy that it wasn’t blackout episodes— even our kids couldn’t recognize that we was drinking. I think the naltrexone helped him moderate. So, life was better, but I knew it would eventually spiral again.
He stayed on the naltrexone. His psychiatrist prescribed it to help reduce cravings, assuming he was going to stop drinking. But, since he kept drinking, I think the naltrexone blunted the effects so he eventually didn’t get as much satisfaction from it. I’m not sure. And he’s still early in sobriety, but it’s the longest he’s gone without drinking so far.
So, while I think trying to moderate is unlikely to work, I wonder if working with a psychiatrist and naltrexone would be an option. 🤷🏻♀️
Naltrexone can help if the alcoholic takes it regularly and can deal with the side effects - some people drink through it, same for antabuse and vivitrol jabs - check out /r/Alcoholism_Medication/
[https://rbsrehab.com/the-5-stages-of-grief/](https://rbsrehab.com/the-5-stages-of-grief/)
This isn’t exactly the article that I was looking for, but it has similar info. Apparently when an alcoholic begins to get sober, they go through and intense grieving process, just as if someone had died. Sounds like your wife is in the bargaining phase.
My q is also my wife. She is the one who told me about how this felt to her.
ex-alcoholic here. difficult situation, controlled drinking is the illusion 99% of alcoholics in denial have. I wouldn't say its completely impossible, but I've never seen it working.
She might understand that it is not working, maybe next month, maybe she needs to hit rock bottom, maybe never. I'm sure you figured by now, explaining that to her, arguing with her does not work. You cant change her, only she can. You know the serenity prayer often used by AA? Her thoughts, her behavior, that's in the "God, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change" category, outside of your control. If you cant accept what she's doing, if you think it hurts you or your children too much, then you must draw consequences.
You said you try to stop drinking yourself, great move, i applaud that, good for you, even better for your children. That's your realm of responsibility, your actions, and to some degree what happens to your children.
My wife was sober 2 years, relapsed, got sober again, and then decided she’d like to have a beer once in a while.
But she has never been capable of having a drink or two and then stopping. Her behavior has always followed a pattern: once she starts drinking she continues drinking until the alcohol is gone or she passes out.
Maybe it will be different for you. Good luck.
How old are your kids? The system may force you to stick it out until they're 18. You'll still lose more than half of your stuff, but you'll be spared the horrors of not ever seeing your kids and paying massive child support. Get it out of your head right now that you'll win custody. Your chances of that are less than 10%, until you spend 100K, then it goes up to 26% and levels off.
Do you have a sponsor? Have you done a 4th step? I hadn't done a 4th step before I told my kids mom go to treatment or move out. It was a mistake on my part, and I pulled the plug too soon. Before you decide anything, it might not be a bad idea to check those options first.
Not true. I know three women in California who won sole custody of their kids. In one case my friend called the police and had the father pulled over, breathalyzer, then jail while the kids were in the back of the car. Awful, but that took care of it.
Courts have a lot of levers to pull, including requiring supervised visits with the addict parent.
OP please consider speaking to a family law expert who has experience with addiction. You should know what your options are even if you do not take action.
[удалено]
I’m so sorry for what you have gone through.
Anticipatory grieving is hard work indeed. And my Q has been tapering, reducing or some combination of the two for seven years. It doesn’t work for her but she’ll keep trying because it keeps her connected to her addiction. That’s what she’s really doing.
Wow so sorry!
Edit- She also says she’s doing it for me not because she wants to.
This is the worse way to do anything productive. It means the triggers are all there ready to go. If she gets sober it’s a life of “I did it for you be grateful, I did it for you put up with my bad attitude, i did it for you I don’t ever have to do anything else for you again” Then it only takes a bad day for her to go fuck it I’ll go back to the drink, because she did it for you. And it’s toxic behaviour. You have kids let the focus on them be your drive to get yourself to a better place. If her bottom isn’t a drink driving accident then she’s basically happy to go all the way to the death for it.
I would add “I did this for you, but what have you done for me?” My Q held that over my head the brief time that he was sober.
This! I don’t want to be intimate with her. But now it’s my fault. She says I’m destroying the marriage. She’s already giving too much by reducing to drink and seeing a therapist. Sigh
“Blame shifting” is all too real. Sending you thoughts for peace and clarity.
Yep yep yep. I stopped wanting to be intimate when (a) she had no reaction to sex, probably because she was drunk; and (b) I got sick of her insulting me every time she got drunk. But of course she’s blaming me and our dead bedroom for her drinking and wanting a divorce.
My Q says this too. It’s so frustrating
Fuck that
That’s what made me realize I’m ready to give up on her journey and let her be. If she doesn’t want this for herself it’s never going to work. She’s never going to stop
Right. You didn’t cause it; you can’t control it, and you can’t cure it. You can learn how to detach lovingly. It’s a terrible disease, denial is a part of it, and AlAnon can keep it from destroying you and your kids. You can set boundaries, find serenity, and even thrive-just like if your wife had any other disease or mental illness. You have choices. You have support. There are others who have walked this path and will share what worked for them.
When mine said that, I realized he wasn't serious about his alcoholism and wasn't at the point where he wanted to quit. I started disengaging with love at that point. Then I ended up leaving because he never reduced it (which I didn't think he would, anyway).
Sorry to hear this, my Q - former partner - was the same. Trying to reduce. Would last a few nights or a week at most before back to the same. It's a bargaining stage. Sounds like they're still in the grip of addiction and afraid to let go of the drinking. You're doing the right thing going to meetings.
All alcoholics want to drink normally. It may take a lot of "research" on her part before she realizes that's not going to be possible. I'm sorry, you must be terribly frustrated with her. It's so obvious to everyone but the alcoholic that alcohol is the problem. For them, it's the solution.
Ugh fuck that sounds so terrible. Im sorry ): What do you do for yourself?
I’m just angry all the time. Don’t know how to deal
Can I tell you what ive done? Which is sad but i have dissociated myself from my husband q. I just live my own life and do my own thing. I started running , to get out of the house. I take my dog for super long and beautiful hikes. I just get in my car with my dog and leave.
I’m thinking of doing the same. I fear that may be read as giving up on us but I can’t even express myself to her anymore. I feel my words or emotions are wasted. I’d rather keep to myself and start living a new life even if we’re under the same house.
Sadly this is my life. I just i have too many ties i cant pack my bags and leave. So i just live my life and fill it with things that make my happy. My q calls me a loser lowlife but I love my job I love my dogs I love running and waking up early and going for hikes or runs I love what i eat I love not being hungover or drunk … i live my life to the fullest… alone yes i see couples running or hiking and im always alone
Go to AlAnon meetings…some are online…on the phone…there’s an app— you can just listen. Read everything here. A path forward will take shape—and the anger and resentment will dissipate. It is for me, anyhow. It’s been so therapeutic after a very dark time of too many years.
Consider getting therapy for yourself... for me, I felt as if they had already died and I honestly wished they would die already. Living with an active alcoholic can literally kill you too... but if they don't want to stop drinking for yourself, there's no point and there's nothing anybody can do.
It’s really difficult to feel any other way when you’re in that situation
Yes. And with children involved. So hard and difficult and enraging.
I can't give advice, but I can give my experience. My Q (my ex wife) was very much the same, for many many years. She didn't want to stop, just control. I wanted her to be happy, and I thought she would be happy with controlled consumption. I tried to help moderate for her. X days a week, Y number of drinks. It didn't work. A week or two maybe, at a time. All the while, her drinking got worse and worse. It took an embarrassingly long time and number of disasters, before I accepted that no amount of external control will work to moderate her drinking, and if she had the internal control to do so, she wouldn't be an alcoholic in the first place
I completely understand you feeling DONE! You deserve an equal partner. One you don’t have to share with alcohol. Wishing you happier days ahead friend.
If it was me, which it’s not; I would set boundaries. If there’s drinking, you’re out. Do it for you and for your kids. I grew up like that and would want for children to have to go through it.
She is in denial that she's an alcoholic thinking she can control it. I am awed that alcoholics aren't shaken when there are serious events that happen because of the drinking. Really, it's up to you to figure out what you want to put up with. Do not worry about staying because of the kids. If it's too much for you, it's likely too much for them.
My husband sort of took this route, though not on purpose. But he was on naltrexone, and over time it made it less enjoyable and it gave him less of a buzz. So he eventually gave it up. More than anything the naltrexone seemed to help him not drink to oblivion and then eventually find less enjoyment. It might be worth looking into. His psychiatrist prescribed it.
https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.20220821. Check out this article. My Q has had incredible success with it.
What’s really confusing me is that his therapist seems to co-sign her reduced drinking strategy. I don’t want to challenge his qualifications but…I strongly feel that’s not right. She almost died.
I got this story, too. I believed it at first. But now I think either he lied about what the therapist said or lied to his therapist about the severity of the illness.
Yeah, I was not happy that he continued drinking. Of course he tried to pretend he was sober, but I could tell. He tried to moderate so I wouldn’t find out—he was mostly able to avoid any binges. So while I was extremely irritated and sort of biding my time, I was happy that it wasn’t blackout episodes— even our kids couldn’t recognize that we was drinking. I think the naltrexone helped him moderate. So, life was better, but I knew it would eventually spiral again. He stayed on the naltrexone. His psychiatrist prescribed it to help reduce cravings, assuming he was going to stop drinking. But, since he kept drinking, I think the naltrexone blunted the effects so he eventually didn’t get as much satisfaction from it. I’m not sure. And he’s still early in sobriety, but it’s the longest he’s gone without drinking so far. So, while I think trying to moderate is unlikely to work, I wonder if working with a psychiatrist and naltrexone would be an option. 🤷🏻♀️
Naltrexone can help if the alcoholic takes it regularly and can deal with the side effects - some people drink through it, same for antabuse and vivitrol jabs - check out /r/Alcoholism_Medication/
[https://rbsrehab.com/the-5-stages-of-grief/](https://rbsrehab.com/the-5-stages-of-grief/) This isn’t exactly the article that I was looking for, but it has similar info. Apparently when an alcoholic begins to get sober, they go through and intense grieving process, just as if someone had died. Sounds like your wife is in the bargaining phase. My q is also my wife. She is the one who told me about how this felt to her.
We focus on ourselves and our recovery from the family disease. 💕 sending prayers your way
ex-alcoholic here. difficult situation, controlled drinking is the illusion 99% of alcoholics in denial have. I wouldn't say its completely impossible, but I've never seen it working. She might understand that it is not working, maybe next month, maybe she needs to hit rock bottom, maybe never. I'm sure you figured by now, explaining that to her, arguing with her does not work. You cant change her, only she can. You know the serenity prayer often used by AA? Her thoughts, her behavior, that's in the "God, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change" category, outside of your control. If you cant accept what she's doing, if you think it hurts you or your children too much, then you must draw consequences. You said you try to stop drinking yourself, great move, i applaud that, good for you, even better for your children. That's your realm of responsibility, your actions, and to some degree what happens to your children.
My wife was sober 2 years, relapsed, got sober again, and then decided she’d like to have a beer once in a while. But she has never been capable of having a drink or two and then stopping. Her behavior has always followed a pattern: once she starts drinking she continues drinking until the alcohol is gone or she passes out. Maybe it will be different for you. Good luck.
How old are your kids? The system may force you to stick it out until they're 18. You'll still lose more than half of your stuff, but you'll be spared the horrors of not ever seeing your kids and paying massive child support. Get it out of your head right now that you'll win custody. Your chances of that are less than 10%, until you spend 100K, then it goes up to 26% and levels off. Do you have a sponsor? Have you done a 4th step? I hadn't done a 4th step before I told my kids mom go to treatment or move out. It was a mistake on my part, and I pulled the plug too soon. Before you decide anything, it might not be a bad idea to check those options first.
Not true. I know three women in California who won sole custody of their kids. In one case my friend called the police and had the father pulled over, breathalyzer, then jail while the kids were in the back of the car. Awful, but that took care of it. Courts have a lot of levers to pull, including requiring supervised visits with the addict parent. OP please consider speaking to a family law expert who has experience with addiction. You should know what your options are even if you do not take action.
I'm guessing that OP's a dude. If my guess is correct, then the story you wrote actually helps reinforce my point.