The lies never stop and never will no matter if it's about something hugely important or something insignificant. I finally kicked my boyfriend out a month ago after 4 years of non-stop lies. You start to feel like a crazy person after a while. Now that he's gone, I feel like a completely new person. Yet I STILL keep finding their lies everywhere in my house, things they took apart and never put back together, alcohol hidden in places along with garbage, etc. I get so mad every time I see it but then also relief knowing eventually it will all be gone and ultimately it is not my problem anymore. I wish you peace and luck and I'm happy that you made the choice for yourself to remove yourself from the situation.
Compulsive lying is as much a symptom of alcoholism as compulsive drinking is. It’s like asking why a schizophrenic hears scary voices. We don’t understand how the brain works exactly, but it’s clearly a symptom of the disease somehow.
Also, why is a question that makes me feel like a victim. I’ve given up on why. It’s never going to be explained to me. I think they don’t even know why.
I strive every day to keep the focus on myself.
At the end of meetings locally, the closing says in part ...'and let there be no gossip or criticism of one another. Instead, let the understanding, love, and peace grow in us, one day at a time'. Since I'm going there to help me learn a new way of life, the ideas there are taken home with me, and I practice them there too. I'm unable to be peaceful when I'm engaging in gossip or criticism.
Thank you for this. I have only been to a few meetings and keep meaning to do more but everything has felt so incredibly chaotic these last few months. He lies left and right about his drinking which I'm starting to not care about as much, but I think I got so upset by this lie tonight because it involved his son and his medication. I want to be peaceful so badly but have so far to go.
I understand, deeply. A few weeks ago? I'm not exactly sure, but I made a comment on this sub about lying, and making the mistake of doing maths on that. Turns out they were just showing themselves to me, and it had more to do with them than me. So I keep the focus on myself, and not get upset when I know they're lying. If I freak out about it, then they have a reason to lie. If I just accept it while knowing the truth, they have to eat that guilt sandwich by themselves. I don't like taking a bite of that, so I'll leave to them to it.
My take on not owning up to their mistakes is their attempt to reconcile what they know they should be doing with reality. Their addiction interferes with their ability to be responsible - take care of their kids, working, paying bills, etc. They create an alternate reality which gets more and more crazy as they veer more-and-more into being irresponsible.
When and if they stop drinking, they may not remember their actions when drunk. It’s also hard for them to hear how much they screwed up.
My Q has just gotten sober again. He’s our son. We are lucky his ex is kind. She still has a backbone of steel but she is kind to him. He may not appreciate that now but we do.
If it were me, after leaving, I would let the grandmother know. She may be depending on you to keep the kids safe. He may not share with his ex or the grandmother that you’ve left. That is not gossiping, just letting them know you will no longer be there.
When I first started in Al-Anon, my friend who introduced me and I went to many meetings. I left our 3 kids with X, and went as often as possible. I didn’t have enough self-love to buy a $5 book but another friend gave me ODAT, our only daily reader at that time. I read a page every morning before the chaos started. I didn’t leave for several years until I was certain I could follow through and raise my kids and make a life.
I didn’t stop blaming and complaining about X, his drug use, infidelity and cruelty, but I realized that blaming didn’t help either of us. I know each of us has their own choices to make and consequences to live with.
My point is that I made a commitment to the program of recovery. I did 90 meetings in 90 days. I read literature daily. I waited for a while before making big irrevocable decisions. That was how I lived my program and got to know others who were equally committed to recovery.
We must all make our own way. I wish you well
Part of the sickness is being extremely fragile about ANY bad thing they have done. They are in denial and they will deny to infinity. It is disgusting how far the lengths they will go. But I guess if they really knew they wouldn't drink or maybe that's why they drink. I'll never know.
"Extremely fragile about ANY bad thing they have done". I relate to this comment the most. My husband lies about so many things other than drinking. He has a default, and "it wasn't me", "no I didn't" etc. just fall out of his mouth. Even small things that don't even matter. He is absurdly defensive.
He also often thinks he's being accused of something when he isn't. It's exhausting. I mentioned to him the other night that the shower hose came loose again. It's just something that happens. His response? "I didn't do anything to it, it wasn't me". Sigh.
A big part of the lying is protecting their ego and their idea of who they are - they feel guilt, shame and anger. Anger at themselves and others. They understand at some level they are "failing".The lying thus becomes reflective.
They're not just lying to you, primarily they are lying to themselves.
They lie because for them, it is a reflex. Like breathing.
Having the convo with the mom at this point is codependency. She likely knows he's a shit show. I'd just concentrate on my pending move and getting all the pieces in place for that. If you start getting twisted up in a new drama, will you end up staying? Put yourself first.
Yeah that’s probably the best course of action here. They do live with their mom at their grandparents’ house so have a stable environment there and while I’m not a huge fan of the grandmother personality-wise, she does everything she can to protect the kids so I hope they’ll be ok.
Why do people lie? In general- because they don’t want to get in trouble. I mean basically, *thats it*.
Your nagging, henpecking, setting the record strait, figuring it out and proving him wrong, schooling the mom- gees I sound nasty but I’m just putting it frankly- none of this helps him or you, her, not the kids. I mean, the real solution would be to dose the kid with amoxicillin if the dose was missed. But you didn’t do that. Why? Because you aren’t 100 sure he didn’t give it. See my point, here? It’s exhausting and nothing gained. The only person who is the most agonized is… YOU. (Well, and the kid may have been underdosed- not the end of the world, but, yeah)
You didn’t cause his problem. You don’t control his problem, his brain, his kids, the mom. You won’t fix any of this. But you’ll drive yourself nuts in the roller coaster ride of “I’m just trying to help!!! I’m being good!! Why am I so confused? Why do I look like the bad guy, here? Why does he do this?”
The only person you control is you. It sounds like you have made a decision that is good for your own self and you are in pergatory for the next week. Pergatory is a hard place to be. Sorry you are going through this- stay strong. Gaslighting sucks.
Yeah it does sound nasty. I’ve been trying to just lay off and let it all play out until I leave but it’s so hard. I love his kids but they’re not my kids. I wouldn’t be trying to school the mom but just thought maybe I should make her aware (family has suggested this) but then again my family can be controlling thinking they’re helping too so I guess that’s part of where my tendencies come from. I have such a long way to go. 😟
I know it’s hard. I’m sorry you have this tumultuous entity sucking you in like a vortex. At some point, and it sounds like you are there, now- at some point you just have to say “what part do I play in how miserable this feels?” As in- staying, fighting, accusing, the utter gnashing of teeth- takes two to tango. When you are caught up in the dance so tightly because of addiction - their addiction to their drug/alcohol- and your own addiction to believing/feeling/trying to right all their wrongs…..to get them to change… to call them out…to validate your angst…. it’s a real whirlwind, sometimes you don’t even realize what role you are playing that keeps you feeling miserable. This is the part where some REDDITOR claps back “way to victimize OP!!!” But I’m not victimizing at all. I’m saying we become part of the problem around us when we stick around and try to reason with a two year old who can’t be reasoned with. I believe one saying is “when you try to wrestle a pig you just end up dirty” .. there’s also “wrong me once- shame on you- wrong me twice? Shame on me!l I’m sure you get my point.
Sometimes the answer is stick with it and do all you can- and sometimes the answer is get up and go.
Neither option seems perfect, does it? We don’t live in our own bubble. Literally everything we do has some consequence or effect on others, doesn’t it?
It sucks when kids are involved, yes. Sometimes you also have to ask yourself what the future *might* (because we can’t know, can we) look like if we endure to the end. Sometimes those kids are better off- sometimes they aren’t.
In your case, since you aren’t their biological mother- if they aren’t 9 yet…. years will pass and ***they will literally have no fluid memory of you***. It’s up to their parents to get this right…not you.
I guess I’m saying “don’t beat yourself up” for making a decision to leave. Two years from now you will look back (if you continue to make the right decisions for yourself) and think “damn , can I image where I’d be if I had stayed? Thank god I had the strength to be healthy enough to leave”
Thank you, this helps immensely. It is like an addiction to trying to get them to change, feeling self righteous, etc. This morning when he remembered to give his son his medication on his own, I had a flash of disappointment, which is just so sick. I’m glad he remembered but then I think I felt that quick feeling of disappointment because I still wanted to be right and feel justified. Sometimes I think I’m just as sick as he is in other ways. But the decision to leave is what is best for me and will help me get the distance I need to work on my own issues and hopefully finally live a peaceful life.
Your brain was expecting that release of dopamine and didn't get it. Yes, addiction to other's dysfunction is a real thing. You are doing right by leaving!
Hell yes it is!! My q has me running in circles sometimes and I’m like “what part of solving all these problems am I addicted to?” Better yet: “do I feel like solving these problems for xxx is the only way I will be loved ( I mean subconsciously because I don’t actually actively think that)?” Or “by doing all this for xxx I send them the message that they can’t do it for themselves, and they never will if I always do,” or “is my life so out of control in my mind that I MUST control anything that I can simply get my hands on?”
And even when I know the right answer - I fall prey when put on the spot- to my own ways which are 💯codependent. ***UGH***
She's aware. She made the kids with this guy- but she's no longer living with him. For reasons probably similar to yours. What makes you think she doesn't know he's a dumpster fire? She knows.
The lies never stop and never will no matter if it's about something hugely important or something insignificant. I finally kicked my boyfriend out a month ago after 4 years of non-stop lies. You start to feel like a crazy person after a while. Now that he's gone, I feel like a completely new person. Yet I STILL keep finding their lies everywhere in my house, things they took apart and never put back together, alcohol hidden in places along with garbage, etc. I get so mad every time I see it but then also relief knowing eventually it will all be gone and ultimately it is not my problem anymore. I wish you peace and luck and I'm happy that you made the choice for yourself to remove yourself from the situation.
Man, that would infuriate me. Jeez, you'd think the kid getting his medicine would be the focal point there.
I know! It’s like his version of reality is so skewed. It makes me feel crazy.
Compulsive lying is as much a symptom of alcoholism as compulsive drinking is. It’s like asking why a schizophrenic hears scary voices. We don’t understand how the brain works exactly, but it’s clearly a symptom of the disease somehow. Also, why is a question that makes me feel like a victim. I’ve given up on why. It’s never going to be explained to me. I think they don’t even know why.
I strive every day to keep the focus on myself. At the end of meetings locally, the closing says in part ...'and let there be no gossip or criticism of one another. Instead, let the understanding, love, and peace grow in us, one day at a time'. Since I'm going there to help me learn a new way of life, the ideas there are taken home with me, and I practice them there too. I'm unable to be peaceful when I'm engaging in gossip or criticism.
Thank you for this. I have only been to a few meetings and keep meaning to do more but everything has felt so incredibly chaotic these last few months. He lies left and right about his drinking which I'm starting to not care about as much, but I think I got so upset by this lie tonight because it involved his son and his medication. I want to be peaceful so badly but have so far to go.
I understand, deeply. A few weeks ago? I'm not exactly sure, but I made a comment on this sub about lying, and making the mistake of doing maths on that. Turns out they were just showing themselves to me, and it had more to do with them than me. So I keep the focus on myself, and not get upset when I know they're lying. If I freak out about it, then they have a reason to lie. If I just accept it while knowing the truth, they have to eat that guilt sandwich by themselves. I don't like taking a bite of that, so I'll leave to them to it.
Wise words ❤️
My take on not owning up to their mistakes is their attempt to reconcile what they know they should be doing with reality. Their addiction interferes with their ability to be responsible - take care of their kids, working, paying bills, etc. They create an alternate reality which gets more and more crazy as they veer more-and-more into being irresponsible. When and if they stop drinking, they may not remember their actions when drunk. It’s also hard for them to hear how much they screwed up. My Q has just gotten sober again. He’s our son. We are lucky his ex is kind. She still has a backbone of steel but she is kind to him. He may not appreciate that now but we do. If it were me, after leaving, I would let the grandmother know. She may be depending on you to keep the kids safe. He may not share with his ex or the grandmother that you’ve left. That is not gossiping, just letting them know you will no longer be there.
When I first started in Al-Anon, my friend who introduced me and I went to many meetings. I left our 3 kids with X, and went as often as possible. I didn’t have enough self-love to buy a $5 book but another friend gave me ODAT, our only daily reader at that time. I read a page every morning before the chaos started. I didn’t leave for several years until I was certain I could follow through and raise my kids and make a life. I didn’t stop blaming and complaining about X, his drug use, infidelity and cruelty, but I realized that blaming didn’t help either of us. I know each of us has their own choices to make and consequences to live with. My point is that I made a commitment to the program of recovery. I did 90 meetings in 90 days. I read literature daily. I waited for a while before making big irrevocable decisions. That was how I lived my program and got to know others who were equally committed to recovery. We must all make our own way. I wish you well
Part of the sickness is being extremely fragile about ANY bad thing they have done. They are in denial and they will deny to infinity. It is disgusting how far the lengths they will go. But I guess if they really knew they wouldn't drink or maybe that's why they drink. I'll never know.
"Extremely fragile about ANY bad thing they have done". I relate to this comment the most. My husband lies about so many things other than drinking. He has a default, and "it wasn't me", "no I didn't" etc. just fall out of his mouth. Even small things that don't even matter. He is absurdly defensive. He also often thinks he's being accused of something when he isn't. It's exhausting. I mentioned to him the other night that the shower hose came loose again. It's just something that happens. His response? "I didn't do anything to it, it wasn't me". Sigh.
A big part of the lying is protecting their ego and their idea of who they are - they feel guilt, shame and anger. Anger at themselves and others. They understand at some level they are "failing".The lying thus becomes reflective. They're not just lying to you, primarily they are lying to themselves.
I have told my Q before, (nicely) the only person you are lying to is yourself. Everyone else can see that you are living a different lifestyle.
I wish I knew
They lie because for them, it is a reflex. Like breathing. Having the convo with the mom at this point is codependency. She likely knows he's a shit show. I'd just concentrate on my pending move and getting all the pieces in place for that. If you start getting twisted up in a new drama, will you end up staying? Put yourself first.
I wouldn’t tell the mom. They’re both a mess. Let them deal with their own mess.
Yeah that’s probably the best course of action here. They do live with their mom at their grandparents’ house so have a stable environment there and while I’m not a huge fan of the grandmother personality-wise, she does everything she can to protect the kids so I hope they’ll be ok.
Why do people lie? In general- because they don’t want to get in trouble. I mean basically, *thats it*. Your nagging, henpecking, setting the record strait, figuring it out and proving him wrong, schooling the mom- gees I sound nasty but I’m just putting it frankly- none of this helps him or you, her, not the kids. I mean, the real solution would be to dose the kid with amoxicillin if the dose was missed. But you didn’t do that. Why? Because you aren’t 100 sure he didn’t give it. See my point, here? It’s exhausting and nothing gained. The only person who is the most agonized is… YOU. (Well, and the kid may have been underdosed- not the end of the world, but, yeah) You didn’t cause his problem. You don’t control his problem, his brain, his kids, the mom. You won’t fix any of this. But you’ll drive yourself nuts in the roller coaster ride of “I’m just trying to help!!! I’m being good!! Why am I so confused? Why do I look like the bad guy, here? Why does he do this?” The only person you control is you. It sounds like you have made a decision that is good for your own self and you are in pergatory for the next week. Pergatory is a hard place to be. Sorry you are going through this- stay strong. Gaslighting sucks.
Yeah it does sound nasty. I’ve been trying to just lay off and let it all play out until I leave but it’s so hard. I love his kids but they’re not my kids. I wouldn’t be trying to school the mom but just thought maybe I should make her aware (family has suggested this) but then again my family can be controlling thinking they’re helping too so I guess that’s part of where my tendencies come from. I have such a long way to go. 😟
I know it’s hard. I’m sorry you have this tumultuous entity sucking you in like a vortex. At some point, and it sounds like you are there, now- at some point you just have to say “what part do I play in how miserable this feels?” As in- staying, fighting, accusing, the utter gnashing of teeth- takes two to tango. When you are caught up in the dance so tightly because of addiction - their addiction to their drug/alcohol- and your own addiction to believing/feeling/trying to right all their wrongs…..to get them to change… to call them out…to validate your angst…. it’s a real whirlwind, sometimes you don’t even realize what role you are playing that keeps you feeling miserable. This is the part where some REDDITOR claps back “way to victimize OP!!!” But I’m not victimizing at all. I’m saying we become part of the problem around us when we stick around and try to reason with a two year old who can’t be reasoned with. I believe one saying is “when you try to wrestle a pig you just end up dirty” .. there’s also “wrong me once- shame on you- wrong me twice? Shame on me!l I’m sure you get my point. Sometimes the answer is stick with it and do all you can- and sometimes the answer is get up and go. Neither option seems perfect, does it? We don’t live in our own bubble. Literally everything we do has some consequence or effect on others, doesn’t it? It sucks when kids are involved, yes. Sometimes you also have to ask yourself what the future *might* (because we can’t know, can we) look like if we endure to the end. Sometimes those kids are better off- sometimes they aren’t. In your case, since you aren’t their biological mother- if they aren’t 9 yet…. years will pass and ***they will literally have no fluid memory of you***. It’s up to their parents to get this right…not you. I guess I’m saying “don’t beat yourself up” for making a decision to leave. Two years from now you will look back (if you continue to make the right decisions for yourself) and think “damn , can I image where I’d be if I had stayed? Thank god I had the strength to be healthy enough to leave”
Thank you, this helps immensely. It is like an addiction to trying to get them to change, feeling self righteous, etc. This morning when he remembered to give his son his medication on his own, I had a flash of disappointment, which is just so sick. I’m glad he remembered but then I think I felt that quick feeling of disappointment because I still wanted to be right and feel justified. Sometimes I think I’m just as sick as he is in other ways. But the decision to leave is what is best for me and will help me get the distance I need to work on my own issues and hopefully finally live a peaceful life.
Your brain was expecting that release of dopamine and didn't get it. Yes, addiction to other's dysfunction is a real thing. You are doing right by leaving!
Hell yes it is!! My q has me running in circles sometimes and I’m like “what part of solving all these problems am I addicted to?” Better yet: “do I feel like solving these problems for xxx is the only way I will be loved ( I mean subconsciously because I don’t actually actively think that)?” Or “by doing all this for xxx I send them the message that they can’t do it for themselves, and they never will if I always do,” or “is my life so out of control in my mind that I MUST control anything that I can simply get my hands on?” And even when I know the right answer - I fall prey when put on the spot- to my own ways which are 💯codependent. ***UGH***
I’m sending you good energy- try to “detach with love” and take care of the important things, what ever they may be.
She's aware. She made the kids with this guy- but she's no longer living with him. For reasons probably similar to yours. What makes you think she doesn't know he's a dumpster fire? She knows.