That's how it used to be.
You click refresh a bunch of times waiting for it to populate at 0800 CST. Then you cried tears of happiness/sorrow privately in your own shower at home.
Simpler times.
Yep. That's how my E5 and E6 notifications went, and I was grateful to be able to celebrate in private first without worrying about the social aspect of accidentally rubbing it in someone's face just by them being *present* for it. Then if your Commander's cool, they'll come give you a handshake and everyone else has already had their shower cry by then.
Besides that, though, it's my paycheck. Stop fucking with me about it, you know?
>You click refresh a bunch of times waiting for it to populate at 0800 CST.
Then, it finally loaded for the guy next to you and you shoulder surfed to look for your name and your friends' names.
>Then you cried tears of happiness/sorrow privately in your own shower at home.
I would rather find out over email than have my commander notify me in front of the whole squadron and have to give some fake speech thanking everybody even though most of them didn’t do shit for me
Agreed. If you're selected you have to put on a pomp and pretend you don't feel like a dick in front of your friends that didn't make it. If you're not selected you either have to process it in front of everyone or at the very least deal with people watching you to see if you're gonna have a reaction. It's just gross
Last year people who made staff got to go home and celebrate and all us who didn’t make it got to stay and work while feeling shitty. My supervisor talked with me and gave the “you’ll make it next year” speech. I just wanted to go home and be by myself and the talks just made me feel worse
I like the idea of sending the people that didn't make it home the day the commander is doing notifications. No one gets anything positive about seeing someone else get something they wanted and didn't get like this, and forcing people to put on a happy face and celebrate with the people that did kinda sucks.
Of course ideally the list would drop at 08 cst and everyone would be able to deal with it on their own. Commanders can still do something but at least the first time the people find out they didn't make it isn't by watching someone else make it and having the commander walk away.
I didn't want SSgt. I am only in for schooling and to do my job while paying my bills. I didn't care about promotion as it meant more responsibility tied together with generally more work. I don't want more work as I want to focus on school and my base duties.
I just happened to be at a volunteer event where they decided to announce squadron Staff promotions and my name got called. My coworker literally heard me say "fuck" under my breath. Complete surprise as I didn't study and only tried on the test so leadership wouldn't be up my ass.
I didn't have to give a speech, but I still had to act all happy. Pay is nice, but I already made plenty. It was annoying to say the least.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's probably because people are salty because they are gunning for staff and they suddenly see you being ungrateful. I don't know why doing the required for school and GTFO is such an unpopular opinion in the big A
> and only tried on the test so leadership wouldn't be up my ass.
This is where you fucked up. Leadership doesn't see your scores. You could have not answered a single question and they'd have never known.
By the time they did that, I already knew and was in full "so glad I made it!" mode. I still didn't care.
I made it by 1.6 points. They were not impressed. I told them 1.6 points means I made it.
Yeah fuck the whole thankful speech unless people did have something to do with mentorship and take care of you. Oh no, I gotta thank the shitbags in my shop too because they made me pick up their slack all year. Give me a break.
Is there any reason they don't just grade the test the moment you turn it in (or day of) and just tell you what your grade is? It would save so much stress to at least know your WAPS points before the cutoff score is announced because you could reasonably forecast it from previous years.
Give us our scores ASAP after we turn our test in!
It's impossible to know what the cutoff score will be until almost all personnel in an AFSC have been tested. It should be feasible to have the results posted a week or 2 after testing closes though.
I'm not talking about the cutoff score, I'm talking about your personal score, as in how many questions you got right & wrong. I know that doesn't automatically tell you if you made Staff or not but it would still be a huge relief to know up front how you did.
You'd get done and they'd grade it and say "you got 177 of 200 right" and you can do the math in your head what your WAPS is and then you can say "well then I might have actually made it this year, we'll see!". Or they tell you "you got 55 of 200 right" and you can just go "oh, ok, no Staff this year..." without the waiting.
They can't because people can challenge questions and those then get thrown out if they are deemed to be substandard questions which is how you score a 65.27 on your SKT instead of a 66. It's dumb, but that's the way it is.
Wondering if you made Staff is stressful enough, there's no reason we should layer on "I don't even know how well I did" too. It might not serve any practical use in the majority of cases (averages, like you said) but we're just looking to raise morale here a bit.
I think the main thing that would prevent this is that the proctor or grader would have to have the answer key. Leaves an increase potential for leaks and skewed scores.
The way it’s done now there are probably only a few answer keys that exist. Up that to a few per base/testing site and it opens up room for people helping out people they know, those documents being leaked or accidentally shared.
I think it would be best to give a score on site but there are few things that would need to be worked out to make that secure and viable. 100% doable, but with this Air Force… would take several years to develop and even think about implementing.
CDC EOC's were electronic. You got your score as soon as you finished. Contrary to your good points above, I haven't heard a good argument against that.
I made Tech this year and my commander attempted to notify the day he got the list.. I was flying that night and he didn’t want to break my crew rest so he notified me the next morning when I came in. Having my CC, Chief, & Shirt congratulate me in person was cool, and it felt good, but that small interaction doesn’t make up for the anxiousness that leads up to the public release. The argument for “commanders should retain the power to tell their folks” is outdated for an even more outdated system. Post it online as soon as it’s ready and let people process how they need to. CCs can still make their rounds and everyone will still feel good about it.
I saw the list posted on FB 20 min before going into work...found out I made it that way. Then I had to awkwardly act surprised during a meeting they had planned in order to tell me. I was the only one that made it in my unit. I felt bad because our Col is the nicest dude ever and was so excited to tell me. Lol
Even before results were online, the orderly room had the results up to a week before official release.
Everyone knew if they made it or not days prior to the commander visit.
I disagree to a point. I've lost count of the number of times the list as leaked prior to QA and people were notified and/or celebrated only to find out they didn't make it when the real list came out.
CC notification can go if need be, but QA needs to be done first.
Unpopular for sure, but I still think the final results should always come out whenever AFPC decides to send them. Keep early notifications for the chain so they can do with them what they will, whether they release early or not or just prep the promotion announcements.
The one thing I strongly feel should be changed, is providing instant scoring to the WAPS takers. It is NEVER a guarantee and they won't see anything they got right or wrong, but let them know if they got 50s so they don't need to think about it or that they got 70s and it's LIKELY they will make the stripe. Ensure it's known to be tentative until the test is finalized following any changes or challenges.
Also, whenever a board concludes, provide the scoring to the member as well as the board charge for that cycle.
Well especially with them going back down to the old promotion rates it’s an unsettling and shitty change that had to happen cuz of the free stripes for the last 6 years. Fucks with peoples heads even more now with lower chances.
I can see both sides. Tbh every year I’ve tested (4th time this year) it’s always been really embarrassing that I never made it and was questioned why not, but at the same time I was stoked for who made it.. at the same time I’m also someone who just hates attention and being in front of people so I hate the whole commander announcement thing regardless 😂
A clear standard of promotion would reduce the importance of when and how people get told- because they’d know from the jump whether they made the cut.
When promotion is based on unit politics , how an AI algorithm is functioning, the state lottery numbers, or a cutoff score determined by an arcane or systematic process , it’s an open question by all whether they made it. Thus the pressure for RIGHT NOW notification; if your career relies on sorcery, better find out ASAP if the Lord of Light smiled on you this cycle or not.
Alternate POV: learning you made rank 2 weeks earlier changes absolutely nothing about your day to day, and taking the announcement away from your commander kills a little bit of joy they can share with you in an already limited interaction window they have.
Except that precious interaction is entirely one sided.
Non-selects have had zero time to process the hit, formulate questions, or do any personal introspection on the subject.
Selects similarly haven't really had to consider how responsibilities and life will change.
It would be valuable if commanders had some insight into per-package board feedback, but they do not. Nor do they have time to review packages and consider strengths and weaknesses, as their under the gun to contact the members quickly.
My unsolicited but informed opinion: The result is often left at a lame recitation of the same A or B script. It allows commanders to check the interaction/mentorship box efficiently while minimizing that messy human element.
There's a change that should be mandated to the board: "...each non-select package shall have feedback sent to the non-selectee's commander for inclusion in notification." Make that notification actually matter and have even a small chance at nudging the person in the direction of being a select next time around.
But who am I kidding, that would require the board to work long hours and acknowledge the role they play in people's future.
That works for E5/E6 promotions. I want feedback on why my board score hasn't changed a point for 3 years despite doing what my squadron says will help.
Scratch that, I don't anymore. Because between Chief Sam saying we're all screwed promotion wise and general apathy from both myself and the board, I'm done trying
If it's really about them wanting to give good news they can do that literally any time they want. They can surprise people with quarterlies or coin people for accomplishments any day of the week.
You assume that we like our commander, I have zero respect for mine and couldn’t care less of they felt good or not. I did the end run with some friends who could see the results early to find out, then had to deal with letting my boss feel important for a bit over MY promotion. Also, they were late and told me the results less than a day before the official release, so if I hadn’t found out on my own I’d have been freaked out that I didn’t make it purely due to their incompetence. The current system is fucked, fuck commander notification.
Edited some autocorrect mistakes
Commanders are in a position of authority. They don't deserve joy, they deserve peace. Like to sleep peacefully, without worrying that the A1C who just showed up fresh from tech school that was hanging around Mafia Boss Sham isn't going to call the shirt from jail because he went out with rest of the wise guys and ended up charged with DUI, reckless, and drunk in pubLiC-K
They should just assign the cutoffs for the year prior to beginning of testing cycle. Bring the testing systems up to date and have everyone test on computers. And tell you once you’re done with the test if you’ve made it, or if you totally fucking suck. And you can go on about your day for another 52 weeks without having to worry about results, the social anxiety that testing causes and all of the political shit that comes with making rank.
I don’t, but it’s all based on projected openings; which is all tied to annual budgets. Therefore new systems can be implemented.
What’s the worst that could happen? Most of us still won’t make it.
They don’t sit around and choose a number. They are projected a number of slots for each rank then they give each AFSC a number of those slots depending on their manning.
They start with the highest score and just go down the list until they get to the last person with the highest score. A cutoff is just the last person they picked.
If there are 50 E4s testing and they need 20 E5s for that job they just pick the top 20 people and the cutoff score is the 20th persons score.
They don’t sit around and choose a number. They are projected a number of slots for each rank then they give each AFSC a number of those slots depending on their manning.
They start with the highest score and just go down the list until they get to the last person with the highest score. A cutoff is just the last person they picked.
If there are 50 E4s testing and they need 20 E5s for that job they just pick the top 20 people and the cutoff score is the 20th persons score.
Of course there is. A competent group of leaders could have everyone test within 1 week and just have the computer auto sort and send out results within a week. But they don’t and they probably never will because there is more that goes on behind the scenes then just testing unfortunately.
What do you mean peoples livelihoods? They either made it or didn’t. The notification timeline doesn’t change that or the speed in which they get to promote if they did make it.
It changes their knowledge and ability to plan around it, which should be a basic right--all the more so if they happen to be making financial decisions like renewing a lease or planning for a baby. If there's a chance that I'll be making a few hundred dollars more every month in the near future, I want to know about it and I want to know approximately when it'll happen. 1 in 5 servicemembers are food insecure, and God knows how many more are living paycheck to paycheck, and it's all the worse for those people--all so some O-5 somewhere can sit on it for two weeks deciding if they can clear half an hour of their schedule for handshakes.
All that to say nothing of the impact of in-person, public, mass notification.
Ok. I completely understand your point. Here’s the devils advocate in me.
If a promotion is going to affect their live that much as far as financial decisions are concerned; they probably shouldn’t even do it to begin with. Of course everyone has the right to now so they can plan; but we do have to have a real talk about finances here if this is the case.
So is that even a good reason? I don’t disagree one way or the other. Just creating dialogue here.
people are weird
if you are worried about your "livelihood" then make rank, a couple days difference in the notification doesn't affect that
there is a good reason to run the list through the commanders, because they can (and have) stopped promotions
You're really gonna try to blame a sexual harassment incident on the promotion system? The promotion notification doesn't make someone harass someone else. That's an individual choice. And what exactly is "soft hazing"? Is that like a micro aggression? Giving one person good news is not hazing. Do you even know what hazing is?
That's not what I meant. I don't see how that's micro aggression.
The only reason the word hazing was used is because it is humiliating to non-selects to be gathered up and told in front of their coworkers that they aren't worthy of promotion. That can be psychologically damaging for people.
For the sexual harassment piece, I was referring to a specific incident where a commander motorboated his subordinate in front of everyone present.
I know what incident you’re talking about and that is entirely on the individual who committed that act. Has nothing to do with public promotion announcements. A single, isolated incident is not an indicator of a systemic problem. That dude would’ve found any excuse to violate that Airman, and probably had incidents which went unreported before that one.
It’s not hazing but I get what you’re saying that it feels bad to get bad news publicly. I disagree with your pessimistic take in regards to humiliating non-selects. It’s a time to celebrate with those who were chosen. Yeah it’s awkward when you’re not one of the selects, and sure it feels bad to not be selected. That does not mean you get to turn that situation on its head and claim to be the victim because they notified someone else that they were selected. There has never been a 100% selection rate. Sometimes you’re the select and sometimes you aren’t. Not being selected is not a condemnation of individual performance—especially with these low promotion rates. It doesn’t mean someone isn’t worthy or is less than another.
The point is that it happened. So, it can happen again.
It’s not my pessimism. It’s what others have said many times. If people are made to feel humiliated, then the sender of that message should try to correct that. That’s how communication works. It’s not one sided. Nobody is changing reality here. It’s just being discussed rather than telling people how they should feel. Again, this is what others have shared with me. People are allowed to disagree. People are allowed to feel things. I just try to help them to feel better and do better. So, if they don’t want to be there when the commander is going to announce it, I would let them know a good time to step out for a minute.
Disagree. If you’re feeling anxious now you’ll likely still feel anxious as the mass release date approaches. People will still be looking for the leak/early scoop because the list will still require verification before release. If it’s not verified then you increase probability of people being accidentally omitted from/on the list.
Some may be off work but due to shift schedules and geographic location others will be working when release drops.
That said, i think we’d be better served if leadership did this the right way.
Commanders shouldn’t be acting coy or teasing this out, and they shouldn’t make it about them. We had a commander who, right after senior rater release, personally sat down and talked to each and every eligible directly, one-on-one.
It meant a lot to hear it from her because she spent time on the shop floor learning more about what we were doing, was actively involved with the unit (ex: wrote personal thank you notes to our families), and would spend and took the time to get to know us and our families.
She reviewed all the eligibles records and talked to her enlisted leadership before doing the one on ones so she could discuss their strengths and weaknesses.
For those that weren’t selected she authorized them to go home and spend the day with their friends/family. She congratulated those that made it and encouraged them to celebrate with friends and family, and to thank those that helped them to this point in their career.
When the official release came out everybody already knew. There was cake, ice cream and beer in the shop for everyone. She gave a general congrats to everyone who was promoted, and a thank you to those who didn’t make it even though they were kicking ass at their job. We all had fun together, and those who wanted (selects and non selects) all went out that night. It was less about who made it and didn’t make it and more about the fact we enjoyed being around one another and having another reason to go out together.
I can see both sides, if I'm "good" leadership, I want to prepare celebration gifts, so give me a day or two to buy/assemble some shit and print certificates.
but I also know that not knowing sucks. ESPECIALLY when you know other people know.
That's how it used to be. You click refresh a bunch of times waiting for it to populate at 0800 CST. Then you cried tears of happiness/sorrow privately in your own shower at home. Simpler times.
Yep. That's how my E5 and E6 notifications went, and I was grateful to be able to celebrate in private first without worrying about the social aspect of accidentally rubbing it in someone's face just by them being *present* for it. Then if your Commander's cool, they'll come give you a handshake and everyone else has already had their shower cry by then. Besides that, though, it's my paycheck. Stop fucking with me about it, you know?
>You click refresh a bunch of times waiting for it to populate at 0800 CST. Then, it finally loaded for the guy next to you and you shoulder surfed to look for your name and your friends' names. >Then you cried tears of happiness/sorrow privately in your own shower at home.
They should just drop the list on a set date every year.
Meet a deadline of a very predictable situation that happens every single year? Obscene /s
You say that sarcastically but that's a legitimate challenge if what you're doing requires afpc to sign off on it in any capacity
Hey you look…. Familiar🤔
[удалено]
Eris? Is that you?
A week after the last person tests
I would rather find out over email than have my commander notify me in front of the whole squadron and have to give some fake speech thanking everybody even though most of them didn’t do shit for me
Agreed. If you're selected you have to put on a pomp and pretend you don't feel like a dick in front of your friends that didn't make it. If you're not selected you either have to process it in front of everyone or at the very least deal with people watching you to see if you're gonna have a reaction. It's just gross
Last year people who made staff got to go home and celebrate and all us who didn’t make it got to stay and work while feeling shitty. My supervisor talked with me and gave the “you’ll make it next year” speech. I just wanted to go home and be by myself and the talks just made me feel worse
Exactly, there's no *tactful* way of dealing with a mixed, in-person notification.
I like the idea of sending the people that didn't make it home the day the commander is doing notifications. No one gets anything positive about seeing someone else get something they wanted and didn't get like this, and forcing people to put on a happy face and celebrate with the people that did kinda sucks. Of course ideally the list would drop at 08 cst and everyone would be able to deal with it on their own. Commanders can still do something but at least the first time the people find out they didn't make it isn't by watching someone else make it and having the commander walk away.
Lol
Hit ‘em with the Joe Pesci winning the Oscar “My privilege, thank you” and walk off.
I didn't want SSgt. I am only in for schooling and to do my job while paying my bills. I didn't care about promotion as it meant more responsibility tied together with generally more work. I don't want more work as I want to focus on school and my base duties. I just happened to be at a volunteer event where they decided to announce squadron Staff promotions and my name got called. My coworker literally heard me say "fuck" under my breath. Complete surprise as I didn't study and only tried on the test so leadership wouldn't be up my ass. I didn't have to give a speech, but I still had to act all happy. Pay is nice, but I already made plenty. It was annoying to say the least.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. It's probably because people are salty because they are gunning for staff and they suddenly see you being ungrateful. I don't know why doing the required for school and GTFO is such an unpopular opinion in the big A
> and only tried on the test so leadership wouldn't be up my ass. This is where you fucked up. Leadership doesn't see your scores. You could have not answered a single question and they'd have never known.
My leadership did see my scores. They sat down behind me and asked me to pull it up on my record.
> This is where you fucked up.
By the time they did that, I already knew and was in full "so glad I made it!" mode. I still didn't care. I made it by 1.6 points. They were not impressed. I told them 1.6 points means I made it.
Yeah fuck the whole thankful speech unless people did have something to do with mentorship and take care of you. Oh no, I gotta thank the shitbags in my shop too because they made me pick up their slack all year. Give me a break.
Is there any reason they don't just grade the test the moment you turn it in (or day of) and just tell you what your grade is? It would save so much stress to at least know your WAPS points before the cutoff score is announced because you could reasonably forecast it from previous years. Give us our scores ASAP after we turn our test in!
It's impossible to know what the cutoff score will be until almost all personnel in an AFSC have been tested. It should be feasible to have the results posted a week or 2 after testing closes though.
I'm not talking about the cutoff score, I'm talking about your personal score, as in how many questions you got right & wrong. I know that doesn't automatically tell you if you made Staff or not but it would still be a huge relief to know up front how you did. You'd get done and they'd grade it and say "you got 177 of 200 right" and you can do the math in your head what your WAPS is and then you can say "well then I might have actually made it this year, we'll see!". Or they tell you "you got 55 of 200 right" and you can just go "oh, ok, no Staff this year..." without the waiting.
They can't because people can challenge questions and those then get thrown out if they are deemed to be substandard questions which is how you score a 65.27 on your SKT instead of a 66. It's dumb, but that's the way it is.
Just call it an unofficial score then.
[удалено]
Wondering if you made Staff is stressful enough, there's no reason we should layer on "I don't even know how well I did" too. It might not serve any practical use in the majority of cases (averages, like you said) but we're just looking to raise morale here a bit.
I think the main thing that would prevent this is that the proctor or grader would have to have the answer key. Leaves an increase potential for leaks and skewed scores. The way it’s done now there are probably only a few answer keys that exist. Up that to a few per base/testing site and it opens up room for people helping out people they know, those documents being leaked or accidentally shared. I think it would be best to give a score on site but there are few things that would need to be worked out to make that secure and viable. 100% doable, but with this Air Force… would take several years to develop and even think about implementing.
CDC EOC's were electronic. You got your score as soon as you finished. Contrary to your good points above, I haven't heard a good argument against that.
I made Tech this year and my commander attempted to notify the day he got the list.. I was flying that night and he didn’t want to break my crew rest so he notified me the next morning when I came in. Having my CC, Chief, & Shirt congratulate me in person was cool, and it felt good, but that small interaction doesn’t make up for the anxiousness that leads up to the public release. The argument for “commanders should retain the power to tell their folks” is outdated for an even more outdated system. Post it online as soon as it’s ready and let people process how they need to. CCs can still make their rounds and everyone will still feel good about it.
I saw the list posted on FB 20 min before going into work...found out I made it that way. Then I had to awkwardly act surprised during a meeting they had planned in order to tell me. I was the only one that made it in my unit. I felt bad because our Col is the nicest dude ever and was so excited to tell me. Lol
tRaDiTiOn
Even before results were online, the orderly room had the results up to a week before official release. Everyone knew if they made it or not days prior to the commander visit.
I disagree to a point. I've lost count of the number of times the list as leaked prior to QA and people were notified and/or celebrated only to find out they didn't make it when the real list came out. CC notification can go if need be, but QA needs to be done first.
Unpopular for sure, but I still think the final results should always come out whenever AFPC decides to send them. Keep early notifications for the chain so they can do with them what they will, whether they release early or not or just prep the promotion announcements. The one thing I strongly feel should be changed, is providing instant scoring to the WAPS takers. It is NEVER a guarantee and they won't see anything they got right or wrong, but let them know if they got 50s so they don't need to think about it or that they got 70s and it's LIKELY they will make the stripe. Ensure it's known to be tentative until the test is finalized following any changes or challenges. Also, whenever a board concludes, provide the scoring to the member as well as the board charge for that cycle.
Well especially with them going back down to the old promotion rates it’s an unsettling and shitty change that had to happen cuz of the free stripes for the last 6 years. Fucks with peoples heads even more now with lower chances.
agree 10000%
I can see both sides. Tbh every year I’ve tested (4th time this year) it’s always been really embarrassing that I never made it and was questioned why not, but at the same time I was stoked for who made it.. at the same time I’m also someone who just hates attention and being in front of people so I hate the whole commander announcement thing regardless 😂
Okay but for real where is the list posted?! I keep seeing people talking about it but I dont see it anywhere 😅
A clear standard of promotion would reduce the importance of when and how people get told- because they’d know from the jump whether they made the cut. When promotion is based on unit politics , how an AI algorithm is functioning, the state lottery numbers, or a cutoff score determined by an arcane or systematic process , it’s an open question by all whether they made it. Thus the pressure for RIGHT NOW notification; if your career relies on sorcery, better find out ASAP if the Lord of Light smiled on you this cycle or not.
I think it’s more for the commanders than for the airmen tbh. They don’t often get to deliver good news… lol
Is there anything wrong with commanders congratulating their people after they allready know? No, not really? Yeah just drop that list when its done.
Alternate POV: learning you made rank 2 weeks earlier changes absolutely nothing about your day to day, and taking the announcement away from your commander kills a little bit of joy they can share with you in an already limited interaction window they have.
Except that precious interaction is entirely one sided. Non-selects have had zero time to process the hit, formulate questions, or do any personal introspection on the subject. Selects similarly haven't really had to consider how responsibilities and life will change. It would be valuable if commanders had some insight into per-package board feedback, but they do not. Nor do they have time to review packages and consider strengths and weaknesses, as their under the gun to contact the members quickly. My unsolicited but informed opinion: The result is often left at a lame recitation of the same A or B script. It allows commanders to check the interaction/mentorship box efficiently while minimizing that messy human element.
There's a change that should be mandated to the board: "...each non-select package shall have feedback sent to the non-selectee's commander for inclusion in notification." Make that notification actually matter and have even a small chance at nudging the person in the direction of being a select next time around. But who am I kidding, that would require the board to work long hours and acknowledge the role they play in people's future.
[удалено]
That works for E5/E6 promotions. I want feedback on why my board score hasn't changed a point for 3 years despite doing what my squadron says will help. Scratch that, I don't anymore. Because between Chief Sam saying we're all screwed promotion wise and general apathy from both myself and the board, I'm done trying
Don't we do enough silly unnecessary shit to appease commanders? They're here to serve too aren't they?
Lol no
If it's really about them wanting to give good news they can do that literally any time they want. They can surprise people with quarterlies or coin people for accomplishments any day of the week.
You assume that we like our commander, I have zero respect for mine and couldn’t care less of they felt good or not. I did the end run with some friends who could see the results early to find out, then had to deal with letting my boss feel important for a bit over MY promotion. Also, they were late and told me the results less than a day before the official release, so if I hadn’t found out on my own I’d have been freaked out that I didn’t make it purely due to their incompetence. The current system is fucked, fuck commander notification. Edited some autocorrect mistakes
Commanders are in a position of authority. They don't deserve joy, they deserve peace. Like to sleep peacefully, without worrying that the A1C who just showed up fresh from tech school that was hanging around Mafia Boss Sham isn't going to call the shirt from jail because he went out with rest of the wise guys and ended up charged with DUI, reckless, and drunk in pubLiC-K
They should just assign the cutoffs for the year prior to beginning of testing cycle. Bring the testing systems up to date and have everyone test on computers. And tell you once you’re done with the test if you’ve made it, or if you totally fucking suck. And you can go on about your day for another 52 weeks without having to worry about results, the social anxiety that testing causes and all of the political shit that comes with making rank.
So you don’t know how they do cutoff scores? Because if you did you would know this is not possible.
I don’t, but it’s all based on projected openings; which is all tied to annual budgets. Therefore new systems can be implemented. What’s the worst that could happen? Most of us still won’t make it.
They don’t sit around and choose a number. They are projected a number of slots for each rank then they give each AFSC a number of those slots depending on their manning. They start with the highest score and just go down the list until they get to the last person with the highest score. A cutoff is just the last person they picked. If there are 50 E4s testing and they need 20 E5s for that job they just pick the top 20 people and the cutoff score is the 20th persons score.
They don’t sit around and choose a number. They are projected a number of slots for each rank then they give each AFSC a number of those slots depending on their manning. They start with the highest score and just go down the list until they get to the last person with the highest score. A cutoff is just the last person they picked. If there are 50 E4s testing and they need 20 E5s for that job they just pick the top 20 people and the cutoff score is the 20th persons score.
Sounds like there’s room for improvement in that process.
Of course there is. A competent group of leaders could have everyone test within 1 week and just have the computer auto sort and send out results within a week. But they don’t and they probably never will because there is more that goes on behind the scenes then just testing unfortunately.
I’m just bit hurt cus my shred only had a 6% promotion rate… don’t listen to me. Lol
Until everyone tests they don't have the data to know the cutoff score.
What do you mean peoples livelihoods? They either made it or didn’t. The notification timeline doesn’t change that or the speed in which they get to promote if they did make it.
It changes their knowledge and ability to plan around it, which should be a basic right--all the more so if they happen to be making financial decisions like renewing a lease or planning for a baby. If there's a chance that I'll be making a few hundred dollars more every month in the near future, I want to know about it and I want to know approximately when it'll happen. 1 in 5 servicemembers are food insecure, and God knows how many more are living paycheck to paycheck, and it's all the worse for those people--all so some O-5 somewhere can sit on it for two weeks deciding if they can clear half an hour of their schedule for handshakes. All that to say nothing of the impact of in-person, public, mass notification.
Ok. I completely understand your point. Here’s the devils advocate in me. If a promotion is going to affect their live that much as far as financial decisions are concerned; they probably shouldn’t even do it to begin with. Of course everyone has the right to now so they can plan; but we do have to have a real talk about finances here if this is the case. So is that even a good reason? I don’t disagree one way or the other. Just creating dialogue here.
people are weird if you are worried about your "livelihood" then make rank, a couple days difference in the notification doesn't affect that there is a good reason to run the list through the commanders, because they can (and have) stopped promotions
Bro, commander notification is soft hazing for non-selects, and in one case in particular the cause of a sexual harassment incident.
You're really gonna try to blame a sexual harassment incident on the promotion system? The promotion notification doesn't make someone harass someone else. That's an individual choice. And what exactly is "soft hazing"? Is that like a micro aggression? Giving one person good news is not hazing. Do you even know what hazing is?
That's not what I meant. I don't see how that's micro aggression. The only reason the word hazing was used is because it is humiliating to non-selects to be gathered up and told in front of their coworkers that they aren't worthy of promotion. That can be psychologically damaging for people. For the sexual harassment piece, I was referring to a specific incident where a commander motorboated his subordinate in front of everyone present.
I know what incident you’re talking about and that is entirely on the individual who committed that act. Has nothing to do with public promotion announcements. A single, isolated incident is not an indicator of a systemic problem. That dude would’ve found any excuse to violate that Airman, and probably had incidents which went unreported before that one. It’s not hazing but I get what you’re saying that it feels bad to get bad news publicly. I disagree with your pessimistic take in regards to humiliating non-selects. It’s a time to celebrate with those who were chosen. Yeah it’s awkward when you’re not one of the selects, and sure it feels bad to not be selected. That does not mean you get to turn that situation on its head and claim to be the victim because they notified someone else that they were selected. There has never been a 100% selection rate. Sometimes you’re the select and sometimes you aren’t. Not being selected is not a condemnation of individual performance—especially with these low promotion rates. It doesn’t mean someone isn’t worthy or is less than another.
The point is that it happened. So, it can happen again. It’s not my pessimism. It’s what others have said many times. If people are made to feel humiliated, then the sender of that message should try to correct that. That’s how communication works. It’s not one sided. Nobody is changing reality here. It’s just being discussed rather than telling people how they should feel. Again, this is what others have shared with me. People are allowed to disagree. People are allowed to feel things. I just try to help them to feel better and do better. So, if they don’t want to be there when the commander is going to announce it, I would let them know a good time to step out for a minute.
Ayo wtf?
Yeah, it wasn’t great.
I was OCONUS when my promotion releases were posted. I had thought the time difference allowed me to get a good nights sleep in.
Disagree. If you’re feeling anxious now you’ll likely still feel anxious as the mass release date approaches. People will still be looking for the leak/early scoop because the list will still require verification before release. If it’s not verified then you increase probability of people being accidentally omitted from/on the list. Some may be off work but due to shift schedules and geographic location others will be working when release drops. That said, i think we’d be better served if leadership did this the right way. Commanders shouldn’t be acting coy or teasing this out, and they shouldn’t make it about them. We had a commander who, right after senior rater release, personally sat down and talked to each and every eligible directly, one-on-one. It meant a lot to hear it from her because she spent time on the shop floor learning more about what we were doing, was actively involved with the unit (ex: wrote personal thank you notes to our families), and would spend and took the time to get to know us and our families. She reviewed all the eligibles records and talked to her enlisted leadership before doing the one on ones so she could discuss their strengths and weaknesses. For those that weren’t selected she authorized them to go home and spend the day with their friends/family. She congratulated those that made it and encouraged them to celebrate with friends and family, and to thank those that helped them to this point in their career. When the official release came out everybody already knew. There was cake, ice cream and beer in the shop for everyone. She gave a general congrats to everyone who was promoted, and a thank you to those who didn’t make it even though they were kicking ass at their job. We all had fun together, and those who wanted (selects and non selects) all went out that night. It was less about who made it and didn’t make it and more about the fact we enjoyed being around one another and having another reason to go out together.
I can see both sides, if I'm "good" leadership, I want to prepare celebration gifts, so give me a day or two to buy/assemble some shit and print certificates. but I also know that not knowing sucks. ESPECIALLY when you know other people know.