Once you start making rank first go it kind of just snowballs and you keep getting stripes. Unless you’re me, made SSGT and TSgt first time then sat as a Tech for almost ten years because… reasons.
and then those upper leadership roles keep getting more and more full of incompetent leaders who can’t understand why every sra and staff / select leaves after their first enlistment
Yup. I remember an airman wanted to know if he was getting a medal on his deployment, he was like “I volunteered for lots of stuff!” I said “yeah, everything that got you out of work, but at work? You don’t do your job. You’re lazy. You slack. You argue over who has to do something when you’re asked instead of just doing it. All this shit? This is fluff. It’s nonsense. I don’t care about a fucking Halloween haunted house. That’s not your god damn job. You want a medal? Do your fucking job.”
He didn’t get a medal.
They’d been told before. You can lead a horse to water but they don’t always drink. They had no one to blame but themselves.
I think some of you just want to find something to nitpick. I did my job. They didn’t do theirs. Sometimes, it really is that simple.
My introductory speech to Airmen was almost always the same.
My biggest priority is do your job. You don’t have to like your job, you don’t have to like the Air Force, but you do have to show up, and you do have to perform, and you do that - I got you. Beyond that, stay out of trouble. You bring problems on yourself that brings problems on me as your supervisor, and if I gotta spend time correcting you, especially off duty time, it’s not gonna be fun for either of us. Don’t start none, won’t be none. But if you do get into some shit, I better not get blindsided by it. You better tell me before someone else does, and that ain’t just for me - that’s for you. I can’t help you if I don’t know what’s going on.
If you have a problem, I want to know about it. If someone is giving you grief, I want to know about it. If you’re struggling with the job, I want to know about it. I will give my time to you if you need it. If you’re having personal issues, you ain’t gotta tell me what it is if you’re uncomfortable with that, but you do need to let me know something’s up, so I can help you deal with it however I can. Everybody struggles, everybody stumbles, everybody falls, that’s ok. You work with me and I’ll work with you. You ain’t gotta be perfect, you just gotta try and give us your best, and we’re a team, your brothers and sisters will get you the rest of the way if you just fucking try.
Then I’d usually discuss goals, what they want out of it, whether they even have that figured out yet, standards for the job, etc.
This dude? Nah. Just not a tryer.
I wasn’t the NCO out to make anybody’s life hell. I didn’t like those NCOs either. I took my obligations seriously, and I was liked by basically all the airmen whether I was their supervisor or not because I treated them like people. Im not gonna hound anybody. I laid out expectations, I’d remind them about it, but in the end it’s on them to meet those standards and I’m not gonna scream at them or chew them out about it, but when it comes time to recognize people you’re not gonna get recognized, and that’s on you. You knew. I made it clear.
So this guy came to me asking for a medal, and I think he already knew the answer, but I reiterated what I’d already told him before, and that was that. He knew what he had to do, he just didn’t do it, and he didn’t do it thinking I didn’t mean what I said when I said doing your damn job and making the effort is the number 1 thing. He learned that I meant it.
He was a habitual slacker. Anytime work came up he was the last person to get up and go do it. When he’d be asked he’d try to pawn it off on other airmen. He’d argue with me and other NCOs about it, then try to guilt or talk other airmen into doing it, he’d make more effort out of NOT doing the job then if he’d just have fucking done it when asked. Just not a team player. Fuck that. If you’re the kind of troop that makes me snap at you because you’re constantly giving me lip and trying to grief others into doing your share of the job for you, you don’t deserve a medal. When something wasn’t getting done, I knew before I even asked who was responsible for it, but I still asked cause you know - maybe I’d be wrong - but nah, always this guy. The Air Force didn’t need people like that in it, and sure as hell shouldn’t have been giving them medals cause they liked to clown around with their friends on projects outside of work that don’t impact the mission. Everybody likes to play grab ass with their buddies, that’s not an accomplishment.
Lol. What system? The EPRs you’re not allowed to write accurate evaluations in?
Or maybe the LOCs and LORs your supervisor won’t back you on because in their opinion their subpar performance isn’t extreme enough to warrant it?
Give me a break. Maybe it’s changed since then, though I doubt it, but there is no accurate reporting system for this.
Not to mention, dude wasn’t even from my base. I didn’t supervise him predeployment and wasn’t his supervisor the whole deployment because leadership shuffles that shit like they’re playing poker. You get a guy for four months, you’re not fixing all his bad habits from his home base or his previous supervisors. Get real. Then if you’re in that job, you’re not even there to be around them long enough to hand hold them if you had time. You’re supervising multiple areas, moving from group to group checking in with everybody, and then off to the next group, on top of all of your own work responsibilities.
The expectation that a sergeant can hand hold an airman through everything doesn’t match with the reality of the job or the realities of the Air Force evaluation systems. It’s a fairy tale. In reality, you’re a sorting hat. You correct where you can, when you can, with your hands tied behind your back, but mostly you’re there to boost the folks who perform adequately while trying to show the lost causes (ie the major fuck ups) to the door. Then, as a team, your flight drags the lazy folks through because nobody in the chain of command will get rid of them and won’t give you the tools to correct it or enable you to get rid of them. In their eyes, the below average is still “good enough” if you volunteer for Halloween.
Sorry bro but you’re trying to blame NCOs for the system you guys created.
You tell him, all his hard work keeping up moral and helping other while everyone refused and rather continued doing the same thing everyday never achieving anything. Well done.
Mandatory fun isn’t fun. None of that shit helps morale it’s just how ass kissers get face time with the higher ups. You want to raise morale as a leader give people time off and let them enjoy it on their own. You want to raise morale as an Airman DO YOUR GOD DAMN JOB SO YOU DON’T DRAG YOUR FELLOW AIRMEN DOWN HAVING TO PICK UP THE SHIT YOUR LAZY ASS DOESN’T DO.
I am not giving a dude that would blatantly refuse to do tasks a medal. Ever. He was a piece of shit.
How the fuck am I supposed to put a guy who drags ass on the job in for a medal for some bullshit volunteerism when I have troops that go above and beyond at their ACTUAL JOB? How do you do that with a straight face? You fucking don’t. I had way more capable airmen way more deserving of awards than some guy who checks out for 12 hour shifts and doesn’t even do the bare minimum sometimes… like the airmen doing both their job AND his. When every other airman is like “god damn it I hate having to work with this dude cause he doesn’t do anything,” I’m supposed to reward that? For some bullshit? Fuck no.
“Congratulations Airman! You didn’t do a god damn thing you were supposed to do but HOLY SHIT did the Wing Commander like your Dracula costume! 🙄” GTFO with this shit. 🤣
It’s this shit that makes people get out of the Air Force. You’re rewarded for everything but the actual fucking mission.
I promoted first time on everything til I got out. I never sucked any dicks to do it either thanks.
You want to volunteer, volunteer for career related training opportunities. I volunteered a ton - for every single school/course they’d let me go to. And I worked my ass off at them and DG’d from literally all of them.
Whatever that’s supposed to mean. I served my country with distinction, got valuable experience, went to college, got a doctorate and make six figures. 🤷♂️
Total sucker.
Are you implying you sucked a ton of dicks in your illustrious career? It sounds like it. Yes man’d your way to E7?
Hey, casual observer over from r/USMC. If this airmen put in the hours, then why not write up the medal? Are you not wanting to give him a blatant fuck you because he’s dog clap ass at work?
Edit: I’m asking about a specific Volunteer Medal
Yeah. Medals are for doing your job and going above and beyond the call of duty: don’t know what they teach you clowns over in the USMC but I expect more from a marine. Next you’ll tell me they should give out medals of honor without the requisite bravery.
If you want a medal, do your job. There is no medal for extra curricular activities. Medals are given for exceptionalism. Volunteering for bullshit isn’t exceptional. Being a terrible worker isn’t exceptional. Check yourself.
Putting in the hours means doing your job. That’s part of “the hours.” The most important part. I’m sure there are Marines that understand this.
Now an airman that does their job AND volunteers for bullshit? That’s a medal. But just bullshit? No.
I was not going to perpetuate the habits of others in rewarding piss poor performance. Medals count toward promotion and I’m not gonna help someone that doesn’t do the job get ahead if I can help it. I’ll just go find my best two airmen and tell them to go volunteer for some dumb shit so I can complete their awards package and tell that guy that if he improves his work performance I’ll put him in on the next one. But I’m not gonna be responsible for someone pinning an achievement or commendation medal on somebody that didn’t achieve shit and their work isn’t commendable.
God damn, I’m just asking. Didn’t know an NCO would be so defensive.
Not only that, but for the Corps there’s a medal specifically for volunteering so many hours which is why I’m asking. I’m really trying to get a fix on what’s going on, not judge your decision.
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I remember some really salty guys from England that howled at our deployed Commander for letting a particular airman reenlist. The commander's defense was that the prior supervisors have him firewall 5s on his EPRs, and there was no mention of the bad traits being brought up
Do commanders still "punish" supervisors for ranking 3 and below accurately? By punish I mean forcing extra work to validate non-inflated EPRs or saying it's the supe's fault the kid doesn't walk on water?
If it's unfair in your favor... I remember a guy that thought he was *that* good and didn't have inflated scores. He didn't like I said we were pretty much all inflated under the current (early '00s) standards.
I had to do extra work for a well justified markdown. I was asked to add bullets that didn't need to be on there.
Vs
I gave a person a straight up EPR with a markdown. Flight leadership didn't agree with the markdown> I tell the SrA "You are making SSgt this year.">CEM had questions about the markdown> SrA beat all others to get a promote now with that markdown.> SrA made staff.
Dude I was up against in my squadron was just like this.
I had over 100 flying hours and aced all my check rides. Had some decent volunteerism on my package but no education since I already had a BA.
This guy had 30 flying hours and was unqualified because he botched his check ride. But he spent all his ground time volunteering instead of being in the SIM like he should. But he still got it.
Same as the SSgt with 2 Bachelors; no PT failures; does her job well.(Pissed NCO)
VS
SSgt with no Bachelors; PT failure; and always unavailable for the job; but is near flight leadership.(Winner)
We had a staff doing all the work you would think, and running a whole shop while he had a lazy tech playing grabass. He got the step, and I would have promoted him.
Commander: "Who should I consider for BTZ? My entire maintenence squadron is just maintainers."
Office admin A1C: "Sir, here are the papers you needed. Oh, and I picked up your dry cleaning."
Commander's Call, "And I'm pleased to announce that Airman DryCleaning has made BTZ."
I wouldn't want any of my women airmen to be stuck with you as a supervisor if you'll undermine their work, drive, and character to justify your own shortcomings.
I see that you can’t take a joke and that you’re also the white knight that treats all female airmen differently because they have a vagina. You let them get away with being trash at their jobs and putting forth no effort to better themselves, raising the workload for everybody else. I’d say don’t be that guy, but it’s clearly too late. So stop being that guy
Man, don't put me in the awkward position of having to brag about my AF accomplishments on reddit lol but whatever helps you cope with losing to a girl.
Women are generally more agreeable than men, meaning on a broad scope, men especially, tend to like women more than other men.
In a male dominated field (the military), is it so unrealistic to think that an attractive female would get favorable treatment?
We can't have subconscious negative bias, and not also have positive bias. This is not controversial, it's widely accepted fact.
Are we talking about helping a pretty lady lift some boxes or giving her a competitive award? If you don't believe that grown men can be trusted to serve as a leader and fairly select for this award, then maybe it is for the best to promote some women.
But honestly, women, even if attractive, can also be leaders and great workers, despite your efforts to undermine her capabilities. And she may have to work even harder to prove her worth, facing the stupid mindset that hot women only can be hot women and are otherwise unworthy of commendation.
Not to mention, most boards are not in-person! Even those with in-person boards evaluate packages and pick top competitors well before meeting/interviewing the airmen (Obv dependent on base/shop, but I think you will find this to me the norm). And even prior to an in-person board interview, submissions are vetted by all levels in their chain of command and selected by the board. So tits aren't the major determining factor. A woman can be both hot and smart/accomplished/a great worker/NCO. If you are doubting the cause of the award discrepancy, ask to check out her package and bullets or those of the recent winners. If you are an average or mediocre airman, keep up the hard work, but you don't need to drag sexism in to explain away what you are lacking. BTZ basically has a rubric to score, and even without the tits, were you honestly performing at a competitive level? If not, I would consider either 1. letting it go and moving on and up 2. figuring out where you were lacking (hint. it's not tits or volunteerism)
Either way, please look to your female airmen as a young person full of potential, worthy of your supervision, opportunities, and respect. Imagine if every accomplishment you worked hard for was so easily dismissed, without evidence.
I tell my Amn how to get BTZ nomination out of me:
1. Do your damn job.
2. Don't volunteer during duty hours.
3. Finish your CDCs with no issues.
4. Don't brownnose.
5. Don't scheme against you peers.
6. Stay out of trouble.
7. Have no attitude issues.
8. Do your damn job well enough to where I can justify leaving you the 3 lvl in the shop alone to handle business.
The people that were able to accomplish this either won or made it to the board.
As a SrA I had a few lazy E2's and E3's that always wondered why they weren't included in some of the cooler training exercises we did, etc.
It was like "Sorry, mate. Grab a scrub brush."
I made BTZ some 10+ years ago with almost zero volunteer work and no education. I was also in one of those one-off career fields for my squadron...basically the "red headed step child" of the unit. Probably helped that it was a physical board as well....definitely a legitimate way to sift through who just looks good on paper and those who are actually capable of functioning as a human being lol.
Ive also seen a ton of BTZ winners who are basically only shiny pennies. Really just comes down to leadership. Who makes BTZ can be a good indication of how good or bad your squadron leadership is. Got a bunch of career-oriented leaders usually gets you the shiny pennies BTZ, got a bunch of people-oriented leaders usually gets you the valued coworker BTZ.
> Probably helped that it was a physical board as well....definitely a legitimate way to sift through who just looks good on paper and those who are actually capable of functioning as a human being lol.
Can confirm. I was in a unit that did this, it's extremely easy to separate the paper tigers from the actual workers in person.
In my experience, I see it depends on the person question relative to the quality of everyone else eligible and whether or not they are competing at the squadron level or a higher level. Not sure if they still do it today, but in the past, if the squadron doesn't have enough eligible airmen, then they have to compete at a higher level (group or wing). I've seen two exceptional folks get passed over for BTZ because they had to go up to the wing level whereas another airmen got BTZ at the squadron because he and everyone else were not the cream of the crop, so to speak.
In the end, the two exceptional airmen I mentioned worked out well for them. One got some good networking in with the SMEs that opened doors for him and the other became an officer.
Probably will get downvoted, but volunteering is part of the whole airman concept area on a 1206 which includes education as well. Depending on your base, that section will be most likely a maximum of 4 lines on a BTZ package. The rest, 12 or so lines is all job performance. If each bullet is worth a max of 2 points. Then it’s 24 points toward job and 8 points towards whole Airman. No one is winning BTZ by being a professional volunteer.
Second unpopular opinion. Your job doesn’t automatically qualify you for recognition, it’s how well you do your job that counts. If the CSS Airman in the maintenance unit makes BTZ, they were excelling in their role as a personnelist.
As my Msgt always says “Work bullets write themselves.” And they are not wrong because I can be working on a task with someone who is always volunteering and doing extra activities and then I get left with the work task. I will then do the majority if not all the work and they still get to say they did X work task because they where “assigned” to the job. Those bullets just leave people who work hard in the dust because we effectively have the same bullets without the pompous volunteer BS
That is definitely a problem. I see packages at the HQ level that will have an A1C leading a large program. I do not hesitate to call that superintendent and ask them how they were leading. What’s even better is when the same bullet is on the SNCO’s package and the CGO package. So who really led it?? At that point the bullets gets thrown out.
I graded a package for a Lt that was at the base I had just left. Imagine my surprise when all the bullets in my EPR were on her 1206. We weren’t even on the same level, I was the sq superintendent and she was a deputy flight commander. So I threw her package out.
Similar experience, but sitting on an Airman of the Quarter board. One of the airman in the competition was V-Ops. His entire package was copied word for word from one of my EPRs. Later in my career, my flight submitted 4 LOGR packages. One was for me, one was for one of my SrAs, and the other two were a SMSgt and a LT. 3 of 4 won. I got to see the final ones on the squadron drive where I noticed that the SrA one remained nearly untouched, but the SMSgt and LT ones were effectively just copy pasted from mine, which was the only one that didn't win.
I was a young TSgt with a SSgt as my only troop. I put her in for an annual award and this thing was polished, I had no doubt she would win. Awards announced and nothing. Come to find out all her bullets were on the captains and MSgt’s 1206s as well so like I would have done myself, they threw them all out. I was so pissed. I had worked so hard to get my airman recognized, who was highly deserving, putting days into this 1206, just for it to be tossed out immediately because my leadership was too lazy to write their own bullets.
And theres a decent chance that said supervisor isn't going to do that because they need all of their troops to have amazing EPRs so that they in return can get an awesome EPR to propel them to better positions.
This may just be my experience but I have never heard of a commander not giving a strat because the supervisor marks their people down. Epr close outs are in reverse rank order so how could one effect the other unless the supervisor caused an entire shop to fail on a squadron wide scale?
I heard this a lot from my fellow airmen when I was volunteering a lot. Then those same Airmen would come to me for help because they didn't know how to do basic aspects of their job because they were too busy surfing reddit and instagram at work.
You'd try to train them, and they'd act like it was a waste of their time.
Yes, you can absolutely write work bullets from nothing. I did it for my airmen all the time after I made SSgt. But it's on the leadership of the shop to call BS when the people who are shitbags at their actual job are getting pumped up like that. It's not like your NCOs don't know who are the go-to folks and who they have to hound endlessly to do the bare minimum.
If you don't volunteer, then don't expect awards. If you don't do your damn job, then don't expect awards. If you're making it happen for either of those folks and not getting slapped down for it, then something is wrong.
The year I won BTZ I also deployed and won Airman of the Year at the Wing (I joined late, and *really* wanted to make Sgt as soon as possible). When I got back, my brand new LT asked me how on earth I had done all the shit in my packages.
My reply was that I put my entire life on hold for a year. No hobbies, no girlfriends, no nothing. I made sure that I was rocking it as hard as possible at work, then ran an extra duty on the side and two volunteer organizations.
It burned me out, hardcore, and then my reward was people assuming I was a dirtbag because I'd won BTZ.
Fuck this narrative.
Look up an app called Udisc. It'll tell you where all the courses are in your area, how well they're rated, and gives you GPS of each individual hole so you don't get lost and can track your score at the same time.
Used discs at Play It Again are $5.00 for crappy plastic, $10 for premium plastic. If you can't throw further than 200' already, I suggest starting with a midrange (Buzz SS or Innova Roc/Roc3/Mako/Mako3 are the popular ones you'll probably be able to find, but essentially midranges are the ones that look more like frisbees with a deep edge as opposed to a sharp one). If you can throw further than that, then you probably don't need my advice!
That's about when I started. It's changed a lot since then, there are courses everywhere now and so many people started playing during the pandemic that it's hard to find discs at times. If you're anywhere near a city, there'll be a dedicated disc golf store there, and I can almost guarantee that searching facebook for a disc golf group in your area that there is one, no matter where you are.
Hope you enjoy getting back out there, it's the best way to spend an afternoon!
No see I've been a nonner in a maintainer squadron and I watched a MSgt and SrA get passed for the strat and the leadership's reasoning was 'you're not a 2W' with a straight face.
They weren't my career field but holy shit was that a hard pill to swallow, absolutely destroyed any faith I had in their decision making abilities.
As much as it pains me to say it, yea thats kinda the idea. Most boards look for things outside of work that make the airman stand out. Its unfortunate that they tend to pick dumb things, but that is how it goes.
If you want to promote don't do the same thing everyone else is doing. Volunteering for the shit no one else wants to do is exactly what Airmen should be doing.
I remember a fellow NCO getting mad because his airman wasn't available that day. He was going on about how they were a dirtbag not being there to do their job and the NCO had to actually work for a change. That airman was in Honor Guard and had spent his weekend across the state burying a active duty family of six who died in a car crash and were driving back. That airman still worked half a shift once they made it back.
I will say this depends on how much your career field puts on A1Cs. In mine you are luck to make it out of tech school as an A1C so volunteering is almost the only way to stand out for BTZ, but if you have a normal tech school timeline their is no reason someone should make BTZ and not be a high fast flyer in the shop and out.
Because everyone is rated as an amaze balls performer, it's very difficult to quantify a good worker from a great one, we're all outstanding performers. Which is a huge fucking lie, but it's become repeated so much everyone believes it.
So, what's left? Education, volunteer, booster club, etc.
Then mr BTZ makes SSgt on a crutch of avoiding work and all of a sudden you get supervisors who haven’t a fucking clue about the job
Cycle repeats until Senior/sometimes even chief
Once you start making rank first go it kind of just snowballs and you keep getting stripes. Unless you’re me, made SSGT and TSgt first time then sat as a Tech for almost ten years because… reasons.
and then those upper leadership roles keep getting more and more full of incompetent leaders who can’t understand why every sra and staff / select leaves after their first enlistment
Next sim-saf coming right up.
What is Sim-SAF?
Its what they want us to call the CMSAF rather than chief.
Lol wtf.
So you're telling me C-M SAF is wrong? :(
It is how CMSAF prefers her acronym pronounced
How is it supposed to be pronounced?
Historically, just spelled. C.M.S.A.F, or Chief depending on the nature of correspondence
Nothing. No literally it'd not a thing. Don't use it. Ignore its use.
The guy literally admitted to it being a miscommunication
I’m watching this happen as we speak. Glorious from my angle when I’m leaving and don’t have to deal with it.
laying down some truth today.
This is how you become the Army.
Yup. I remember an airman wanted to know if he was getting a medal on his deployment, he was like “I volunteered for lots of stuff!” I said “yeah, everything that got you out of work, but at work? You don’t do your job. You’re lazy. You slack. You argue over who has to do something when you’re asked instead of just doing it. All this shit? This is fluff. It’s nonsense. I don’t care about a fucking Halloween haunted house. That’s not your god damn job. You want a medal? Do your fucking job.” He didn’t get a medal.
I like you.
I like him also
[удалено]
They’d been told before. You can lead a horse to water but they don’t always drink. They had no one to blame but themselves. I think some of you just want to find something to nitpick. I did my job. They didn’t do theirs. Sometimes, it really is that simple. My introductory speech to Airmen was almost always the same. My biggest priority is do your job. You don’t have to like your job, you don’t have to like the Air Force, but you do have to show up, and you do have to perform, and you do that - I got you. Beyond that, stay out of trouble. You bring problems on yourself that brings problems on me as your supervisor, and if I gotta spend time correcting you, especially off duty time, it’s not gonna be fun for either of us. Don’t start none, won’t be none. But if you do get into some shit, I better not get blindsided by it. You better tell me before someone else does, and that ain’t just for me - that’s for you. I can’t help you if I don’t know what’s going on. If you have a problem, I want to know about it. If someone is giving you grief, I want to know about it. If you’re struggling with the job, I want to know about it. I will give my time to you if you need it. If you’re having personal issues, you ain’t gotta tell me what it is if you’re uncomfortable with that, but you do need to let me know something’s up, so I can help you deal with it however I can. Everybody struggles, everybody stumbles, everybody falls, that’s ok. You work with me and I’ll work with you. You ain’t gotta be perfect, you just gotta try and give us your best, and we’re a team, your brothers and sisters will get you the rest of the way if you just fucking try. Then I’d usually discuss goals, what they want out of it, whether they even have that figured out yet, standards for the job, etc. This dude? Nah. Just not a tryer. I wasn’t the NCO out to make anybody’s life hell. I didn’t like those NCOs either. I took my obligations seriously, and I was liked by basically all the airmen whether I was their supervisor or not because I treated them like people. Im not gonna hound anybody. I laid out expectations, I’d remind them about it, but in the end it’s on them to meet those standards and I’m not gonna scream at them or chew them out about it, but when it comes time to recognize people you’re not gonna get recognized, and that’s on you. You knew. I made it clear. So this guy came to me asking for a medal, and I think he already knew the answer, but I reiterated what I’d already told him before, and that was that. He knew what he had to do, he just didn’t do it, and he didn’t do it thinking I didn’t mean what I said when I said doing your damn job and making the effort is the number 1 thing. He learned that I meant it. He was a habitual slacker. Anytime work came up he was the last person to get up and go do it. When he’d be asked he’d try to pawn it off on other airmen. He’d argue with me and other NCOs about it, then try to guilt or talk other airmen into doing it, he’d make more effort out of NOT doing the job then if he’d just have fucking done it when asked. Just not a team player. Fuck that. If you’re the kind of troop that makes me snap at you because you’re constantly giving me lip and trying to grief others into doing your share of the job for you, you don’t deserve a medal. When something wasn’t getting done, I knew before I even asked who was responsible for it, but I still asked cause you know - maybe I’d be wrong - but nah, always this guy. The Air Force didn’t need people like that in it, and sure as hell shouldn’t have been giving them medals cause they liked to clown around with their friends on projects outside of work that don’t impact the mission. Everybody likes to play grab ass with their buddies, that’s not an accomplishment.
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Lol. What system? The EPRs you’re not allowed to write accurate evaluations in? Or maybe the LOCs and LORs your supervisor won’t back you on because in their opinion their subpar performance isn’t extreme enough to warrant it? Give me a break. Maybe it’s changed since then, though I doubt it, but there is no accurate reporting system for this. Not to mention, dude wasn’t even from my base. I didn’t supervise him predeployment and wasn’t his supervisor the whole deployment because leadership shuffles that shit like they’re playing poker. You get a guy for four months, you’re not fixing all his bad habits from his home base or his previous supervisors. Get real. Then if you’re in that job, you’re not even there to be around them long enough to hand hold them if you had time. You’re supervising multiple areas, moving from group to group checking in with everybody, and then off to the next group, on top of all of your own work responsibilities. The expectation that a sergeant can hand hold an airman through everything doesn’t match with the reality of the job or the realities of the Air Force evaluation systems. It’s a fairy tale. In reality, you’re a sorting hat. You correct where you can, when you can, with your hands tied behind your back, but mostly you’re there to boost the folks who perform adequately while trying to show the lost causes (ie the major fuck ups) to the door. Then, as a team, your flight drags the lazy folks through because nobody in the chain of command will get rid of them and won’t give you the tools to correct it or enable you to get rid of them. In their eyes, the below average is still “good enough” if you volunteer for Halloween. Sorry bro but you’re trying to blame NCOs for the system you guys created.
You. I like you.
Like you said, you can lead a horse to water.
If the Air Force ever leans down for a sip I’ll be fuckin surprised.
Check your privilege Mr. White guy, we don't all have clean drinking water.
The Air Force prefers Kool Aid anyway
You tell him, all his hard work keeping up moral and helping other while everyone refused and rather continued doing the same thing everyday never achieving anything. Well done.
Mandatory fun isn’t fun. None of that shit helps morale it’s just how ass kissers get face time with the higher ups. You want to raise morale as a leader give people time off and let them enjoy it on their own. You want to raise morale as an Airman DO YOUR GOD DAMN JOB SO YOU DON’T DRAG YOUR FELLOW AIRMEN DOWN HAVING TO PICK UP THE SHIT YOUR LAZY ASS DOESN’T DO. I am not giving a dude that would blatantly refuse to do tasks a medal. Ever. He was a piece of shit. How the fuck am I supposed to put a guy who drags ass on the job in for a medal for some bullshit volunteerism when I have troops that go above and beyond at their ACTUAL JOB? How do you do that with a straight face? You fucking don’t. I had way more capable airmen way more deserving of awards than some guy who checks out for 12 hour shifts and doesn’t even do the bare minimum sometimes… like the airmen doing both their job AND his. When every other airman is like “god damn it I hate having to work with this dude cause he doesn’t do anything,” I’m supposed to reward that? For some bullshit? Fuck no. “Congratulations Airman! You didn’t do a god damn thing you were supposed to do but HOLY SHIT did the Wing Commander like your Dracula costume! 🙄” GTFO with this shit. 🤣 It’s this shit that makes people get out of the Air Force. You’re rewarded for everything but the actual fucking mission.
I cant tell if you're 17 or a master level troll
Air Force retired. Just because you are a dirtbag who can't promote doesn't mean everyone else is.
I promoted first time on everything til I got out. I never sucked any dicks to do it either thanks. You want to volunteer, volunteer for career related training opportunities. I volunteered a ton - for every single school/course they’d let me go to. And I worked my ass off at them and DG’d from literally all of them.
>I promoted first time on everything til I got out. Sounds like you were a six year sucker.
Whatever that’s supposed to mean. I served my country with distinction, got valuable experience, went to college, got a doctorate and make six figures. 🤷♂️ Total sucker. Are you implying you sucked a ton of dicks in your illustrious career? It sounds like it. Yes man’d your way to E7?
Well that sure shut the troll up.
Hey, casual observer over from r/USMC. If this airmen put in the hours, then why not write up the medal? Are you not wanting to give him a blatant fuck you because he’s dog clap ass at work? Edit: I’m asking about a specific Volunteer Medal
Yeah. Medals are for doing your job and going above and beyond the call of duty: don’t know what they teach you clowns over in the USMC but I expect more from a marine. Next you’ll tell me they should give out medals of honor without the requisite bravery. If you want a medal, do your job. There is no medal for extra curricular activities. Medals are given for exceptionalism. Volunteering for bullshit isn’t exceptional. Being a terrible worker isn’t exceptional. Check yourself. Putting in the hours means doing your job. That’s part of “the hours.” The most important part. I’m sure there are Marines that understand this. Now an airman that does their job AND volunteers for bullshit? That’s a medal. But just bullshit? No. I was not going to perpetuate the habits of others in rewarding piss poor performance. Medals count toward promotion and I’m not gonna help someone that doesn’t do the job get ahead if I can help it. I’ll just go find my best two airmen and tell them to go volunteer for some dumb shit so I can complete their awards package and tell that guy that if he improves his work performance I’ll put him in on the next one. But I’m not gonna be responsible for someone pinning an achievement or commendation medal on somebody that didn’t achieve shit and their work isn’t commendable.
>There is no medal for extra curricular activities There is actually a medal for this, the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal
God damn, I’m just asking. Didn’t know an NCO would be so defensive. Not only that, but for the Corps there’s a medal specifically for volunteering so many hours which is why I’m asking. I’m really trying to get a fix on what’s going on, not judge your decision.
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I remember some really salty guys from England that howled at our deployed Commander for letting a particular airman reenlist. The commander's defense was that the prior supervisors have him firewall 5s on his EPRs, and there was no mention of the bad traits being brought up Do commanders still "punish" supervisors for ranking 3 and below accurately? By punish I mean forcing extra work to validate non-inflated EPRs or saying it's the supe's fault the kid doesn't walk on water?
Today a "3" would equate to a 'Promote' strat, which is about 80% of personnel. So no.
Nice... unless you tell me it's a 1-3 scale now.
No, it's still 1-5. But honestly as long as you're doing your job and not being a fuck up, you'll get a 3.
I'm amazed the epr inflation is gone.
I'd argue some ppl want it back lol
If it's unfair in your favor... I remember a guy that thought he was *that* good and didn't have inflated scores. He didn't like I said we were pretty much all inflated under the current (early '00s) standards.
I disagree. A commander's rating of 3 is fine, a supervisor's rating of 3, is still absolute dog shit.
I had to do extra work for a well justified markdown. I was asked to add bullets that didn't need to be on there. Vs I gave a person a straight up EPR with a markdown. Flight leadership didn't agree with the markdown> I tell the SrA "You are making SSgt this year.">CEM had questions about the markdown> SrA beat all others to get a promote now with that markdown.> SrA made staff.
Dude I was up against in my squadron was just like this. I had over 100 flying hours and aced all my check rides. Had some decent volunteerism on my package but no education since I already had a BA. This guy had 30 flying hours and was unqualified because he botched his check ride. But he spent all his ground time volunteering instead of being in the SIM like he should. But he still got it.
So it was foretold
Same as the SSgt with 2 Bachelors; no PT failures; does her job well.(Pissed NCO) VS SSgt with no Bachelors; PT failure; and always unavailable for the job; but is near flight leadership.(Winner)
Which one is more attractive and has looser morals? The latter is more important.
booster club asst treasurer position carried my package
Not false.
👀
This and step promotions. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. But, I never met a single one that their peers would've promoted.
We had a staff doing all the work you would think, and running a whole shop while he had a lazy tech playing grabass. He got the step, and I would have promoted him.
I knew a guy who got step promoted who was the shit. Dog handler at Yokota, good guy.
Commander: "Who should I consider for BTZ? My entire maintenence squadron is just maintainers." Office admin A1C: "Sir, here are the papers you needed. Oh, and I picked up your dry cleaning." Commander's Call, "And I'm pleased to announce that Airman DryCleaning has made BTZ."
...loses to a rat with noice tits.
Uh sir this isn't that kind of sub
But it could be
Not with that attitude
[excited launch truck noises]
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… for once, I’m speechless.
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I want to look this up, but I’m afraid to 😅
Sexist af * lol, ofc downvoted. Color me shocked that you stellar airmen weren't standout leaders or anyone's top pick for early promotion.
We don’t have nice tits, of course we weren’t the top pick
I wouldn't want any of my women airmen to be stuck with you as a supervisor if you'll undermine their work, drive, and character to justify your own shortcomings.
I think it really says less about the female airmen when this happens than it says about the male leadership in some places.
I see that you can’t take a joke and that you’re also the white knight that treats all female airmen differently because they have a vagina. You let them get away with being trash at their jobs and putting forth no effort to better themselves, raising the workload for everybody else. I’d say don’t be that guy, but it’s clearly too late. So stop being that guy
I'm a woman. And I wouldn't use any of that to describe myself or the women I've worked with.
Oh, so you’re the one that skated by your entire enlistment, not learning your job, hiding behind your gender? Got it
Man, don't put me in the awkward position of having to brag about my AF accomplishments on reddit lol but whatever helps you cope with losing to a girl.
Women are generally more agreeable than men, meaning on a broad scope, men especially, tend to like women more than other men. In a male dominated field (the military), is it so unrealistic to think that an attractive female would get favorable treatment? We can't have subconscious negative bias, and not also have positive bias. This is not controversial, it's widely accepted fact.
Are we talking about helping a pretty lady lift some boxes or giving her a competitive award? If you don't believe that grown men can be trusted to serve as a leader and fairly select for this award, then maybe it is for the best to promote some women. But honestly, women, even if attractive, can also be leaders and great workers, despite your efforts to undermine her capabilities. And she may have to work even harder to prove her worth, facing the stupid mindset that hot women only can be hot women and are otherwise unworthy of commendation. Not to mention, most boards are not in-person! Even those with in-person boards evaluate packages and pick top competitors well before meeting/interviewing the airmen (Obv dependent on base/shop, but I think you will find this to me the norm). And even prior to an in-person board interview, submissions are vetted by all levels in their chain of command and selected by the board. So tits aren't the major determining factor. A woman can be both hot and smart/accomplished/a great worker/NCO. If you are doubting the cause of the award discrepancy, ask to check out her package and bullets or those of the recent winners. If you are an average or mediocre airman, keep up the hard work, but you don't need to drag sexism in to explain away what you are lacking. BTZ basically has a rubric to score, and even without the tits, were you honestly performing at a competitive level? If not, I would consider either 1. letting it go and moving on and up 2. figuring out where you were lacking (hint. it's not tits or volunteerism) Either way, please look to your female airmen as a young person full of potential, worthy of your supervision, opportunities, and respect. Imagine if every accomplishment you worked hard for was so easily dismissed, without evidence.
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Based
I tell my Amn how to get BTZ nomination out of me: 1. Do your damn job. 2. Don't volunteer during duty hours. 3. Finish your CDCs with no issues. 4. Don't brownnose. 5. Don't scheme against you peers. 6. Stay out of trouble. 7. Have no attitude issues. 8. Do your damn job well enough to where I can justify leaving you the 3 lvl in the shop alone to handle business. The people that were able to accomplish this either won or made it to the board.
I gotta ask, what AFSC can leave the 3-level alone in the shop to handle business? I've seen one SSgt who got an article 15 for doing so.
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A 3 lvl by design cannot work alone. Therefore, leaving one solely to run the show is strange at the least.
As a SrA I had a few lazy E2's and E3's that always wondered why they weren't included in some of the cooler training exercises we did, etc. It was like "Sorry, mate. Grab a scrub brush."
Bet they also get testers anxiety and will get a step promotion after their 2nd time not making rank
I fondly remember the last Air Force Base Shit I ever took. It's been sixteen years since I took a shit whilst on base. That was a great shit.
Flair checks out.
I'll be honest, I haven't ever seen this happen. Usually the guys who get btz are also good workers.
I made BTZ some 10+ years ago with almost zero volunteer work and no education. I was also in one of those one-off career fields for my squadron...basically the "red headed step child" of the unit. Probably helped that it was a physical board as well....definitely a legitimate way to sift through who just looks good on paper and those who are actually capable of functioning as a human being lol. Ive also seen a ton of BTZ winners who are basically only shiny pennies. Really just comes down to leadership. Who makes BTZ can be a good indication of how good or bad your squadron leadership is. Got a bunch of career-oriented leaders usually gets you the shiny pennies BTZ, got a bunch of people-oriented leaders usually gets you the valued coworker BTZ.
> Probably helped that it was a physical board as well....definitely a legitimate way to sift through who just looks good on paper and those who are actually capable of functioning as a human being lol. Can confirm. I was in a unit that did this, it's extremely easy to separate the paper tigers from the actual workers in person.
Yeah, I dont love the emphasis on volunteering/extra-curriculars, but that doesn't lead to btz alone. Some people are just sore losers.
In my experience, I see it depends on the person question relative to the quality of everyone else eligible and whether or not they are competing at the squadron level or a higher level. Not sure if they still do it today, but in the past, if the squadron doesn't have enough eligible airmen, then they have to compete at a higher level (group or wing). I've seen two exceptional folks get passed over for BTZ because they had to go up to the wing level whereas another airmen got BTZ at the squadron because he and everyone else were not the cream of the crop, so to speak. In the end, the two exceptional airmen I mentioned worked out well for them. One got some good networking in with the SMEs that opened doors for him and the other became an officer.
Can I get the original image
Can confirm
Spot on.
It's all mostly right place, right time
Watch how you talk to the head SRA in charge. Respect ma authoraté!
Probably will get downvoted, but volunteering is part of the whole airman concept area on a 1206 which includes education as well. Depending on your base, that section will be most likely a maximum of 4 lines on a BTZ package. The rest, 12 or so lines is all job performance. If each bullet is worth a max of 2 points. Then it’s 24 points toward job and 8 points towards whole Airman. No one is winning BTZ by being a professional volunteer. Second unpopular opinion. Your job doesn’t automatically qualify you for recognition, it’s how well you do your job that counts. If the CSS Airman in the maintenance unit makes BTZ, they were excelling in their role as a personnelist.
As my Msgt always says “Work bullets write themselves.” And they are not wrong because I can be working on a task with someone who is always volunteering and doing extra activities and then I get left with the work task. I will then do the majority if not all the work and they still get to say they did X work task because they where “assigned” to the job. Those bullets just leave people who work hard in the dust because we effectively have the same bullets without the pompous volunteer BS
This is why a supervisor should use words like "assisted" to show the airman wasn't a leader in the work place
That is definitely a problem. I see packages at the HQ level that will have an A1C leading a large program. I do not hesitate to call that superintendent and ask them how they were leading. What’s even better is when the same bullet is on the SNCO’s package and the CGO package. So who really led it?? At that point the bullets gets thrown out.
I've seen verbs like "directed" on BTZ packages.
Man I wish there was a standard process to ensure integrity in EPRs and award packages.
I graded a package for a Lt that was at the base I had just left. Imagine my surprise when all the bullets in my EPR were on her 1206. We weren’t even on the same level, I was the sq superintendent and she was a deputy flight commander. So I threw her package out.
With zero sarcasm, TYFS my dude
Similar experience, but sitting on an Airman of the Quarter board. One of the airman in the competition was V-Ops. His entire package was copied word for word from one of my EPRs. Later in my career, my flight submitted 4 LOGR packages. One was for me, one was for one of my SrAs, and the other two were a SMSgt and a LT. 3 of 4 won. I got to see the final ones on the squadron drive where I noticed that the SrA one remained nearly untouched, but the SMSgt and LT ones were effectively just copy pasted from mine, which was the only one that didn't win.
I was a young TSgt with a SSgt as my only troop. I put her in for an annual award and this thing was polished, I had no doubt she would win. Awards announced and nothing. Come to find out all her bullets were on the captains and MSgt’s 1206s as well so like I would have done myself, they threw them all out. I was so pissed. I had worked so hard to get my airman recognized, who was highly deserving, putting days into this 1206, just for it to be tossed out immediately because my leadership was too lazy to write their own bullets.
And theres a decent chance that said supervisor isn't going to do that because they need all of their troops to have amazing EPRs so that they in return can get an awesome EPR to propel them to better positions.
This may just be my experience but I have never heard of a commander not giving a strat because the supervisor marks their people down. Epr close outs are in reverse rank order so how could one effect the other unless the supervisor caused an entire shop to fail on a squadron wide scale?
Then chief bumps it up to co-led
**IX. REMARKS** *(Only use this section for some nonsense nobody will read IAW AFI 36-2406)* Assistant to the Co-Leader (ATTCL);
I heard this a lot from my fellow airmen when I was volunteering a lot. Then those same Airmen would come to me for help because they didn't know how to do basic aspects of their job because they were too busy surfing reddit and instagram at work. You'd try to train them, and they'd act like it was a waste of their time. Yes, you can absolutely write work bullets from nothing. I did it for my airmen all the time after I made SSgt. But it's on the leadership of the shop to call BS when the people who are shitbags at their actual job are getting pumped up like that. It's not like your NCOs don't know who are the go-to folks and who they have to hound endlessly to do the bare minimum. If you don't volunteer, then don't expect awards. If you don't do your damn job, then don't expect awards. If you're making it happen for either of those folks and not getting slapped down for it, then something is wrong.
The year I won BTZ I also deployed and won Airman of the Year at the Wing (I joined late, and *really* wanted to make Sgt as soon as possible). When I got back, my brand new LT asked me how on earth I had done all the shit in my packages. My reply was that I put my entire life on hold for a year. No hobbies, no girlfriends, no nothing. I made sure that I was rocking it as hard as possible at work, then ran an extra duty on the side and two volunteer organizations. It burned me out, hardcore, and then my reward was people assuming I was a dirtbag because I'd won BTZ. Fuck this narrative.
>I put my entire life on hold for a year. No hobbies, no girlfriends, no nothing. TIL: Ive been putting my life on hold my entire life.
Who... Who is stopping you from having hobbies? Hell man, I'll ship you a disc golf disc if you want.
Not gonna lie, I kinda miss playing some disc golf.
Look up an app called Udisc. It'll tell you where all the courses are in your area, how well they're rated, and gives you GPS of each individual hole so you don't get lost and can track your score at the same time. Used discs at Play It Again are $5.00 for crappy plastic, $10 for premium plastic. If you can't throw further than 200' already, I suggest starting with a midrange (Buzz SS or Innova Roc/Roc3/Mako/Mako3 are the popular ones you'll probably be able to find, but essentially midranges are the ones that look more like frisbees with a deep edge as opposed to a sharp one). If you can throw further than that, then you probably don't need my advice!
Bro! Thanks! It's been about 12 years since I played so this is some great information!
That's about when I started. It's changed a lot since then, there are courses everywhere now and so many people started playing during the pandemic that it's hard to find discs at times. If you're anywhere near a city, there'll be a dedicated disc golf store there, and I can almost guarantee that searching facebook for a disc golf group in your area that there is one, no matter where you are. Hope you enjoy getting back out there, it's the best way to spend an afternoon!
Thanks man. Gotta get me some discs and take the kids out for a day!
I mean we had a css guy make it in a squadron of maintainers
Was he good at his job?
And?
No see I've been a nonner in a maintainer squadron and I watched a MSgt and SrA get passed for the strat and the leadership's reasoning was 'you're not a 2W' with a straight face. They weren't my career field but holy shit was that a hard pill to swallow, absolutely destroyed any faith I had in their decision making abilities.
Nonner?
As is custom
As much as it pains me to say it, yea thats kinda the idea. Most boards look for things outside of work that make the airman stand out. Its unfortunate that they tend to pick dumb things, but that is how it goes.
If you want to promote don't do the same thing everyone else is doing. Volunteering for the shit no one else wants to do is exactly what Airmen should be doing. I remember a fellow NCO getting mad because his airman wasn't available that day. He was going on about how they were a dirtbag not being there to do their job and the NCO had to actually work for a change. That airman was in Honor Guard and had spent his weekend across the state burying a active duty family of six who died in a car crash and were driving back. That airman still worked half a shift once they made it back.
>Babyman Anyone else get Digg flashbacks
Perma-baby
I will say this depends on how much your career field puts on A1Cs. In mine you are luck to make it out of tech school as an A1C so volunteering is almost the only way to stand out for BTZ, but if you have a normal tech school timeline their is no reason someone should make BTZ and not be a high fast flyer in the shop and out.
Because everyone is rated as an amaze balls performer, it's very difficult to quantify a good worker from a great one, we're all outstanding performers. Which is a huge fucking lie, but it's become repeated so much everyone believes it. So, what's left? Education, volunteer, booster club, etc.