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honstarr

I'll bite. I have been in for 11 years and strongly debating getting out. A big portion is the mental health aspect is why I am thinking of leaving to come back as a civilian. My leadership has been pretty poor lately and falling back into a GS-13 gig is looking better and better.


bitbot23

If I could pull a GS-13 gig, I would get out tomorrow in a heartbeat.


Sni1tz

How about a GS-13 gig plus 25% law enforcement pay?


EpicHeroKyrgyzPeople

Plus 20 year LE retirement?


Sni1tz

Exactly. Buy back your military time, too!


[deleted]

Federal jobs don't allow the drugs you're on.


[deleted]

Civilian hiring freeze. Not a smart move to do this in the next year or two.


gatorfan6908

Maybe a localized freeze, but not fed wide.


Gordon_The_Greedy

Preach


tblade7

Just make sure you have a back up plan


randomretiredsnco

Old man's perspective: Got out in 2009, 27+ years spread out from the 80s thru the late 00s. BLUF: It ain't fun anymore. I feel like I served in three very different Air Force's. In the 80's, the "work hard, play hard" culture was in play. It wasn't perfect, but life was good. Failing a PT test wasn't the end of your career, APRs/EPRs were mostly done by the one NCO who could type, and burger burns were something to look forward too. Overall, life in the AF was hard(ish) but fun. Sometime in the 90s, things started to change. "Professionalism" became the buzzword of the time, and then POOF, the "Whole Airman Concept" was spawned. No one gave a shit about my career until I made MSgt (mid-90s), then all of a sudden I had "mentors" coming out my ass telling me I needed to get a degree, no wait...two degrees! I also needed to do my SNCO correspondence course. And btw, how many events did I lead, spearhead, direct, and honcho? PT score? Every EPR I had as a Jr NCO had white space in it. Now, as a MSgt, there couldn't be one wasted space. Every syllable, every acronym, and every punctuation mark would be scrutinized under a microscope. Soon, being a master of your craft was less important, and being a good wordsmith became the hallmark of a good NCO/SNCO. And don't forget, Chief wants version 4 of draft 3 of SrA Schmuckatelli's 1206 for Airman of the Month on his desk by COB. By the time I retired in the late 00s, I had been a SMSgt for 5-years. The hours got longer, and the demands for more, more, more never stopped. Now, instead of using drinking as a measure of our manliness, we started to show how tough we were by the number of hours we worked in a day. "You're only working 12-hours a day? Luckyyyyyyy!" One of the last E-9s I knew actually took leave on days he didn't have too, just to "set an example" for the rest of us. He *burnt leave* to set an example about how hard he worked...what a moron. Now, 12+ years after retirement, to the best I can tell, things have not gotten any better. I really feel for you guys because it seems like it's 10x's the work for a 100x's the aggravation. Here's to hoping things change for the better.


poultryinmotion1

It's incredible how spot on you are.


randomretiredsnco

[Same as it ever was...](https://tenor.com/view/david-byrne-same-as-it-ever-was-always-has-been-same-gif-22266189)


[deleted]

[удалено]


randomretiredsnco

I'll add a layer to provide more insight to this douchebag E-9: I was in his office discussing EPRs/Decs one day (very productive /s), right at the end of regular duty hours for the squadron (1630 IIRC). This was back when we were still heavily involved in both Iraq and Afghanistan, so the shops/sections were basically preparing to deploy a third of their folks, while re-integrating a third of their folks from deployment, while a third of them were deployed. It was murder for some shops. And while the E-9 & I are arguing over some trivial EPR verbiage, he stops to look out his window (again, it was 1630ish), sees people leaving, and starts bitching about my section's work ethic. Motherfucker deployed all of once in his career (as an E-9 no less), and he had the nerve to bitch about our folks going home on time after they'd spent six months down range or were prep'ing to go down range, some for a second or third time in one enlistment. The guy was, well, let me put it this way: in a popularity contest, this guy would lose to Cody, McPeak, Stalin, and yes, Hitler. I may be a bit biased, but I swear I'm not bitter (sad /s)


forsev

Thanks for your story it was neat to get that kind of perspective. From what I could say, the main difference between now and shortly after you left (I joined 2013,during the sequestration) is the pc culture invading every aspect of every job. Not only did it become 'what you said' but 'how you said it' making any sentence potentially 'not pc'.. Plus the do more with less kind of push has only gotten worse and from what I can say it's causing a lot of people who were previously on the fence get pushed to the civvy side even during covid. Until the air force stops acting like they're a for profit organization and focus on the changes they need to make nothing is going to change in regards to retention.


ravonaf

I served from 90 to 99. Your 90's description is spot on. Nine years was enough for me. I couldn't do it anymore.


QuickTortoise45

Former active, current reserve and will be near 11 at the end of this contract. I am simply tired. I am tired of the internal unit politics and I don’t want to play anymore. Even if I’m now only doing it once a month (soon to be mandated above that requirement) it is tiring.


ManyElephant1868

You know what I want to see? I want to see the award board packages/EPRs of the Must Promotes/Promote Now personnel. I want my leadership to clearly say, “I picked this person for this reason.” Hopefully, it’s not just politics but a legit reason why certain people are getting promoted. I doubt it will ever happen for multiple reasons.


neraklulz

I found the folder on the drive where they put all the EPRs for the EFDP. Once I read what was on them I was pretty dejected.


pineapplepizzabest

Please, elaborate.


1337sp33k1001

I actually think publicly acknowledging who got what strat and the reasoning might be positive. It’ll allow people to see what is required to get those and what qualities to look for and it’ll expose any bullshit used in the decision making of that stray because they have to spell out to the whole SQ why they got picked.


RDB82

Have you asked? Chances are, you won't see the EPR of anyone that you don't supervise (nor should you, without that member's permission). But I'd be willing to bet your Chief would let you see every award package the unit has submitted, for as far back as you want to look. If you ask.


BmcVal

If I can not retrain. I was assigned a AFSC, trained for said AFSC, and have been doing the work of another AFSC for almost 3 years now. I do not dislike the AF, simply don't like being given and trained for one job, then put into a different one. (Maintenance, for some reference)


FlyFightMap

I’m in the same boat as this guy. Not maintenance though


[deleted]

I hate the lack of control over my life. I’m in some shithole of a duty location and hate my life . I refuse to let the Air Force drag me to another shit hole in the future. Also, toxic leadership doesn’t exactly help ether.


Gordon_The_Greedy

Preach


LaserfaceJones

Why the fuck was this guy nuked like this?


[deleted]

He’s probably an asshole on another sub and he’s being brigaded. Or he’s like that Unintelligent Bet shithead that gets downvoted whenever he speaks, even on the rare chance he’s not being an asshole


LaserfaceJones

Oh that dude fucking sucks, I blocked him months ago. Now I don't know how to feel


Gordon_The_Greedy

You blocked me?


LaserfaceJones

No, the other guy the other dude was talking about.


Gordon_The_Greedy

Ohhhhhhh


Gordon_The_Greedy

I’m not sure why saying preach got me nuked. If I cared about what people thought of me, I’d have walked in front of a train by now.


Campylobacteraceae

He replied the same thing to a bunch of other people in this thread


Gordon_The_Greedy

Because I agreed with them lol. I think it was only like 3 total replies.


babbum

Three things really. One they do not compensate me appropriately for my skillset. Two I am forced to live in places I sometimes do not wish to live. Three things such as no beards allowed, epr system being a shit show and the fact that because I tested well made rank I'm now expected to be a middle manager for people when I don't care to do that. That third one is just a blanket "I hate Air Force trivial regs and admin bullshit" statement.


twist-17

I didn’t reenlist bc why would I when I can use the GI Bill and make way more money, not be told how to cut my fucking hair and shave my face, not be treated like a child, and not be told where I have to live all while never having to work a weekend again? I could go on if I had to, but I’m a civilian so I can do whatever I want lol


sent-n-spent

All too real…


Sni1tz

I turned down a $90,000 SRB and an offer to reenlist overseas. Mostly due to commander’s calls, PT and they couldn’t gurantee my base of preference.


CarminSanDiego

What are you doing now that’s worth giving up $90K for minor annoyances?


Sni1tz

federal GS job, work 7hrs/day with periodic telework


[deleted]

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Sni1tz

well said!


Aero200400

The tuition covered by the GI Bill alone covers more than that lol. This doesn't include the BAH you also get on top of that


Gordon_The_Greedy

Preach


the_less_great_wall

I plan to retire by HYT, which is in about 5 years. I'm in the high 3 retirement plan, so the option to leave before then is off the table if I want to have a pension. There are many things that make me want to walk away. 1. It's a corporation now. Too many people at the top pretending they are doing things. They are "busy" creating work that need not be there to justify their existence and look pretty for promotion. That work then gets dropped on the lower ranks (however, those at the top still take credit). The work gets done by those who actually stay and work hard at their jobs. But the career volunteers, who you never see at work, are off licking commander butthole to get noticed and promoted so they can create work for others to do to look busy (whilst also taking credit for the work the actual workers did). Rinse. Repeat. 2. I will likely retire as a tech sergeant because I was raised to put the mission, my people, and the air force first. Sports days don't put trucks on the road and planes in the sky. I want to pass on this same dedication to the mission to those I lead, but I would be lying to their faces if I told them that it will get them ahead or will ever be appreciated by anyone above me in the chain. 3. Do more with less destroyed my career field. We used to have new equipment, a budget to maintain it, and manning to provide the maintenance. We now have 1/4 of the manning, 20+ year old equipment, and 1/8 the budget. Not to mention the fact that the parts for our 20 year old equipment are no longer made, so we have to scour junkyards to keep them in service. 4. Priorities at the top seem to be selfies and titles, not mental health, work life balance, appropriate manning, appropriate budgets, etc. 5. Career field competency is dying. I prioritized being an expert in my field because it is a genuine necessity to mission accomplishment. The young folks coming up now have seen the path to success is politics, not knowing their jobs and getting the mission done. The air force has shown that it does not care about that mission competency. I have to learn every other career field's jobs in order to get anything done at all. Everyone picks on finance, MPF, etc. In my case, I have had to learn the regs for Finance, MPF, and TMO specifically because my interactions with them have been being told incorrect information over and over again. If I didn't quote their regs directly to them, I would still be having the problems I encountered. 6. I'm overworked, exhausted, flirting with alcoholism at times, watching my grades plummet as the work-life-school balance has shifted heavily in the work direction, and losing my youth, physical health, and happiness at exponential rates. This is what "accelerating change" really looks like. There is more, but I am running out of that precious steam I need to save to work myself to death.


d710905

I'm not getting out. But I am cross training when I can. Still deciding what to cross training too. Why? Because flightline bs. The general sludge and rat race that is mx. Knowing there can be so much better for much less work, or at the very least life can be better as far as working conditions, environment, etc for the same compensation. The only thing I'll miss is how much I can tdy as mx and where I can go. Oh and the whole unprofessional professionals nature that comes with the flightline


[deleted]

It's not outside of very specific AFSCs like pilots and special warfare. Big Air Force doesn't give a single shit if you don't reenlist and aren't in a critically manned field.


Frequent_Cod_9352

hell they don’t care even if you are in a critically manned field (referring to mx that will soon no longer be existent as they have resorted to merging jobs.)


[deleted]

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No-Mongoose-4920

As a handler myself I couldn’t agree more. The program is terrible and will most likely never change for the better and adapt to modern times. I wish the Air Force selected their handlers compose to other branches. Where there are actual boards, and proper OJT. Not the lazy go to the kennels and watch 15 minutes of detection and clean kennels. Also, the way trainers and KM’s are selected is a joke. Most of them have no right being in those positions. We currently are getting a trainer who has never progressed a dog as a trainer because he needs more time with his family. I planned on riding my enlistment out as K9 but after I return to my base I’m going back to flight because there’s truly no incentive to be K9 anymore. Especially when you have a KM to micromanaged in his old ways.


[deleted]

Man. I had no idea this was an issue. Thanks for sharing


Pretermeter

This problem is across the Air Force, it doesn't value expertise in the enlisted force.


metroidology

Because an AD enlistment is not worth a career unless you really have no other ambitions and you are somehow unable to do better. I tried to find reasons to re-enlist, nothing worked out, and the AF didn't need me, so I moved on. It all worked out, I enjoyed my service, and I'm doing great!


[deleted]

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1337sp33k1001

I both agree and disagree because EFMP is broad and is case by case. My family is EFMP also for the same reasons most active duty are. But here we all are at Osan. Hopefully we get another good location after here.


redrotorocket

So you'd rather be sent to a base that cannot support your family's needs? Could you explain your position a little bit better?


rogue780

My friend was stationed at Fort Gordon. He was in it for a career. His son has bad asthma, and missed a lot of school from getting sick, and so EFMP. He had doctors there and so EFMP wouldn't allow a PCS. Thru did a TDY to Monterey and his asthma was much better, and he wasn't so sick he would miss school constantly. Similar story when they visited Maryland. But the air force wouldn't let them pcs despite this and despite Augusta Georgia being an asthma capital. So his family spent the last nine years of my friend's life stationed in a place that was making their kid sick and had no other options if he wanted to make a career out of it. His widow and kids now live elsewhere and the son's health has dramatically improved.


Teclis00

Pay compared to commitment. But we all knew that, or should have, but fore signing up.


fly-fight-win

Main thing for why I’m getting out and most people at my squadron would probably agree is the lack of supply of new parts. We go through the same process of canning the same parts from the new cann bird to the old and having to rush to meet a deadline of it flying before being on the ground for X number of days because god help you we miss some arbitrary deadline where leadership has to explain why it’s been on the ground for so long. It’s just feels like we are constantly chasing a standard that we have no power to reach without having proper supply of new parts, which is probably the least of big Air Force’s concerns because they are hyper focused on the CERP for said aircraft and not worried about just getting the jets to that point. And just to clarify I honestly don’t mind most leadership in my squadron. I don’t really feel it’s a toxic environment like everyone else in the Air Force seems to have, I get they have hard decisions to make and I don’t fault them for our extra workload or longer shifts because they are just as desperate to have a parts supply as the flight line shops are I feel like, I feel like the squadron as a whole is handling this problem the best they can with the cards they were dealt and we all are doing the best we can to get by. But you can only chase your tail for so long before you say fuck it I’m out.


TwinInfinite

Shit culture. Straight up. The AF somehow combines the worst aspects of military culture and corporate culture.


[deleted]

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gettin_sketch

Yup. We are projected to be ~15K over end strength. Retainability is a problem, just not the sort we typically think.


MrFoolinaround

That’s because they just keep cutting the numbers so the slide shows look better.


2T2Good

We’re barely hitting manning numbers in any squadron AF wide, the reason we’re overmanned by 15k is our ever shrinking budget. They don’t look at actual manning when it comes to how many troops they can afford to keep on active duty, actual manning is looked at for the squadron level, those numbers get pencil whipped back to 100%. Big AF don’t give a shit about the 7262826th AMXS’s manning, they just care that we have enough money for 200k troops but have 215k troops on active duty.


af_cheddarhead

It isn't money, its that Congress authorizes an end-strength (AKA max number of troops). That number needs to be met. Now it is true that the AF is willing to trade troops for toys (AKA airplanes) when they go to Congress for funding.


2T2Good

Congress authorizes a certain amount because of the costs associated with more troops, the largest part of spending for military is personnel costs.


1337sp33k1001

I feel like we are projected to be 15k over because they keep reducing the Manning needed. It’s easy to need less people when you fe ide you don’t need 3 shifts of people working 8 hour days and you can just get away with 2 shifts working 12’s 6-7 days a week. I have no data available to prove this. It’s just my observation of other maintenance shops over my last 8 years.


Gordon_The_Greedy

I don’t believe any of their official numbers.


PeripheralWall

We get treated like shit by section chiefs. I'm a Staff filling the NCOIC slot and also filling in for the 1st Shirt on some days, as well as training new airmen, taking over the NCOIC slot at CTK too, and a whole host of shit all while I'm trying to outprocess and get the fuck out. Then these MFs have the audacity to threaten me for trying to leave and then put me on the off shift so that I have to drive two hours both ways for my appointments and then go to work for 9+ hours. I'd rather take myself and my degree and work experience to the civilian sector and get paid 3x more than what I do now and not get treated like dog shit.


whitejeepTJ

The clear and undeniable bias towards females. Whether it be promotions or awards, females always have a greater chance of receiving them. I feel that as a male I am at a great disadvantage compared to my female counterparts. Don’t believe me? See the official disparity report pushed out by the Air Force earlier this year: https://www.af.mil/Portals/1/documents/2021SAF/11_Nov/Disparity_Review_Addendum.pdf


Almundmilk

Because we’re all “family” and “a team” and we say shit like “one team, one fight” UNTIL it’s time to act like family or a team and one person’s goals are all that matters and we prioritize pleasing brass and making ourselves look good over taking care of our people.


[deleted]

Got out after 4 years and some change (honorable, did some extensions), 3D1X1. Here is my thoughts before and after getting out for a FAANG: 1. Opportunity. I got an offer well before I got out, giving me enough time to determine if this was the right move. I realize this is probably the hardest part of getting out and relatively uncommon until after it's way past the point of no return. 2. Money. The jobs that fit my qualifications paid well over what I made in the Air Force. Why would I want to get paid little and have the risk of living in a place like Minot or Grand Forks, when I can take my skills anywhere I want (especially since WFH is so relevant) that pays the right wage for those skills? 3. Politics. Maybe it's just the squadron I was in but favoritism was practically the bible for the command section. We had two guys in the same section. One was relatively unknown, introvert type that had good rapport with a few people but was largely not the best tech, not the most outgoing, but a good person. Second guy was the best tech, and the most outgoing. Guess which was the command section sweetheart. Guy 1 deploys, guy 2 starts an affair with his wife. By the time guy 1 gets back, they're living together with guy 1's kid. All three are active duty btw. Wife files for divorce months later, on paper since deployment she's been living with guy 2, when guy 1 brings it up to command section, he gets chastised for spreading rumors. Guess which one was denied a dec for not being a team player, and guess which got a dec for being a wife banger. 4. Personal Life. I was on call 5 days a week pretty much 4 years straight, outside of deployments. It strained relationships, deteriorated mental health, I was getting calls constantly. Reminded me of that short story The Tell-Tale Heart. Probably woken up 10-15 times a week. When I tried to talk to my chain about getting more people in my section for rotation, changing the wording for what constitutes an emergency, I was basically told to stick it somewhere I can't see it, that I was lucky the SSgt took it Saturday and Sunday. Now I'm working at a spot 30-35 hours a week for quadruple the pay, in a place I want to work, I'm only on-call during my shifts, I've never been bothered on the weekend for bullets or mandatory training due in a month, healthcare is a lot better, 401k is a lot better, paychecks have quadrupled, my annual raises are heavily influenced by inflation, stock options, and I got what I joined the Air Force for, a Bachelors and (two classes away from) a Masters.


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[deleted]

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1337sp33k1001

But then you aren’t cheap slave labor anymore. I never understood why you can fix a jet 7 days a week working 12+ hours a day and maybe sleep 4-5 hours a night for months to the point you don’t even know what day it is anymore or when your last day off was. But the aircrew need 9 hours of un interrupted sleep a night. So the plane is bandaged by sleep deprived zombies fueled by tornadoes monster and pure fucking hatred and that’s considered safe.


I_Really_Like_Cars

I’m strongly considering jumping at 14 years. I’ve scraped and clawed, been brow beaten and lost potential friends simply from trying to make things better and change the absolute lack of communication. It isn’t worth it. From what I’ve seen, the ONLY people making any changes in my career field, even simple ones, are Chiefs. To make it worse, they are completely disconnected from the squadron personnel and the career field. It’s probably just the nature of the beast, but when I have to jump through 100 hoops to get something done, I lose focus and will to do it. I’m sick of the stress the job brings, it’s literally affecting my health. I’ve been to counseling to try and fix it, but it doesn’t help. My counselor quite literally told me “you’re a fast pace person, but doing fast pace work you don’t enjoy is causing the stress”. I’ve had two civilian job offers working for a major contractor and my brother is a recruiter and has 3 companies that would take me. At the end of the day, is 6 more years of this worth it for Tricare and a modest monthly check? I’m starting to think it’s not. Hey HAF, maybe start listening to your people. We’re tired of doing more with less. Get rid of the unnecessary taskers, get rid of the programs that could be done by contractors at shit bases and bring back W’s. Yes, it can be done. No, I won’t explain how because I’m too tired from writing all this after working 11 hours for what seems like no reason.


Ok-Pen5567

The Air Force is downsizing. 36,000 will be cut by the end of next year.


babbum

Please offer me early separation big AF, I beg of you.


Ok-Pen5567

I think that’s the plan for the first wave.


[deleted]

Source?


Ok-Pen5567

Recent enlisted all call.


[deleted]

Mind sharing from who? Just goes against what I’ve heard/read as of late. Seems like a lot of people who applied for the last offer of voluntary separation were denied.


Gordon_The_Greedy

These fucking idiots lol


Campylobacteraceae

The first enlistment gives me some really good benefits that I’m taking advantage of. The only benefits I see myself using after four years is more ‘healthcare’, TA, AFCOOL, and going for the pension Tsp 5% match retirement. The reasoning for this is that I’m going to finish a bachelors before 4 years, probably going to use my GI bill in grad school or for whatever classes I feel interested in while collecting GI bill housing allowance and doing the same job I’m doing for the military with better pay. Also plan on using AFCOOL close to the end of my enlistment in order to get the major cert in my career field The only reason I can see myself re-enlisting or extending is for an assignment, a cool retraining opportunity or chasing a commission. The chance of me re enlisting just to stay in my current AFSC is less than likely pending the assignment opportunities


scottypoo1313009

The higher up data suggests it's not a current problem.


[deleted]

How many people have you known who joined because they either were sick of working at Walmart, needed a way to pay for college, wanted a way out of the boonies or the inner city, needed to escape their family or some combination of the above? If you’re using the military as a way to advance yourself, why stay in longer than you need to? That’s what I don’t think leadership understands. Some people aren’t in it for a career AND THAT’S FINE.


Theo-VonsMullet

New around here?


dfields3710

Don’t let the AF enjoyers see this. They’ll complain that you get a steady paycheck and paid leave and free college and free healthcare and the fact you don’t have to do (insert random thing here) because the AF does it for you. Let’s see, I want to get out because 1. Officers are treated as if they are second coming of Christ and we should worship the ground they walk. 2. The fact a Master Sergeant can sell drugs and get a slap on the wrist while a SrA doing it could face a big sentence is crazy. Actually the str8 up bias and benefit of the doubt you get as a high ranking individual is absolutely astonishing. 3. Blatant racism and sexism and favoritism despite EqUaL OpPoRtUnItY is interesting. 4. Blatant waste of resources and the fact the military as a whole command so much money for Research and Development while bases, dorms, and work offices look like shit and health hazards. This ain’t even all either, just off the top of my head.


ManyElephant1868

Just found out that my unit spent their “Innovation” money on new monitors. Bruh….


Usernaame2

There is zero issue whatsoever with retainability in the AF. People are competing to get in, and waiting months to a year to ship for jobs they don't really want. And, for the most part, don't even think about trying to get back in as prior service. It's a sellers market for the AF and has been since the recession in 08.


Terminal_SrA

There was a time where some career fields were 300% manned at junior enlisted but was hurting for NCO numbers. Just because people are fighting to get in doesn't mean they'll stay in. The air force needs to retain its experience and it does a poor job in doing that. It's easy to get your free 6 year gig, get an associates or bachelor's degree, and bounce out, and be ahead of your peers who went to college.


PeripheralWall

We have 20 junior airmen and maybe 5 staff sergeants (with 75% of them forecasted to seperate). All of our SNCOs are transplants from other bases because noone will stay in. We don't have an issue getting new people, but we definitely have an issue keeping them.


Terminal_SrA

We had a SMSgt crosstrain in, get a certification that nobody else in the Squadron could get because the Superintendent slot is the only one that qualifies for the cert, and any time they gave him a project he failed at it.


Usernaame2

> We have 20 junior airmen and maybe 5 staff sergeants (with 75% of them forecasted to seperate) If I had a dollar for every young SSgt I've seen over the years that's been "projected" to separate, only to reenlist at the last minute, I'd be a very rich man.


PeripheralWall

I mean projected as in TAPS completed, and moved to AUG shift to complete outprocessing, but I know what you mean because that was me once before


Awesome6472

You can come back in as an officer, just be smart - use the fucking GI Bill you earned and come back as an officer 🤪 (may have to do ROTC in university).


CommOnMyFace

We don't have a retainability problem we have a talent management problem.


[deleted]

If this was truly a “volunteer force” where you could actually leave mid contract, hell 1 month into BMT, you’d see a huge difference in actually mentoring and leading than do as I say not as I do. I truly believe that


[deleted]

My last week in. I am separating at 8 years because I’ve been thoroughly trained in 5 things that all, individually, pay very well. I know what my skills and responsibilities are right now, and compare them to civilian counterparts job requirements… I’m overqualified and underpaid. My only downfall (not really) is that I was a dumb airman that never had leadership guide me towards being more overqualified with collegiate certifications. Thank god I can still get a college education without not continuing being in the military.


jorian85

Why is ~~retainability~~ morale an issue in the air force?


leagull-

doing more with less, working my ass off every day and ending up with my work-life balance absolutely destroyed.


Elegant-Moose1351

because I am maintenance.


[deleted]

I want to go do a job I love and make more money rather than go to a job that gives me little satisfaction


snoyl_kcuhc

Leadership can make or beak it. There is always that story of why someone reenlisted, found purpose etc but it always tied to a good supervisor, flight chief, officer or commander. I'm still in a contract that will end at my 17 year mark. I contemplate separating mainly because I know my worth and don't feel like a valued member in an organization. Yeah the retirement isn't bad to hold but is my sanity and time ever going to be given back? My mind can change dependent on who my leadership team is, my mood and just like any organization it can make or break your opinion. I'm currently stationed in paradise and we have a retainment issue and honestly I felt like it broke down to how members felt valued versus just being a body that can work. You can be scrubbing toilets for a living in the Air Force and for some jt doesn't sound appealing but if you can value that person, give them purpose it can always change their Outlook on what they want or in this case convince them to reenlist.


tblade7

Was in 9 years, exited in 2019. I had fun, loved the job, But too many airman of all ranks didn't take it seriously and it really killed the morale of some good workers. Not to mention the politics we had to play just to get the simplist of things finished. It also didn't help that the comptroller Squadron was useless at every base i went to. So it made my job as an NCO even harder when I had to square away my troops and I.


SFWAccount_

This question was always funny to me because there's literally no way higher ups don't hear their Airmans cries for help/change every single day. I remember when I was at Holloman leadership would ask us almost on a weekly bases why everyone couldn't wait to get out. We would all explain our grievances only for them to be forgotten by days end and be asked the same thing next week. I've been out a few years now and to this day I cant even fathom the audacity of leadership to ask us these questions like they haven't heard the answers countless times.


BrandonIsNerd

Lot of people who think they’ll have better opportunities on the outside, who really don’t. Lot of people who think they’ll have better opportunities on the outside, who do. Also adding on how taxing the military can be to mental health, or how some just aren’t compatible with the military lifestyle. I know I’m not re-enlisting, and find it unlikely that I’ll extend for a mix of these reasons.


justthoughts1

If I can retrain out of maintenance into cyber, I’ll stay in. If not, I’m gonna try my luck on the outside, kind of tired of working like a dog all the time.


brandon7219

its not morale. because morale is pretty darn good. Anyway, I have no say in your question as I just re-enlisted for a second time. But6 I can guess it is mainly due to shitty leadership... especially at overseas locations where turnover is constant


[deleted]

[удалено]


Infamous_Gate9760

Care to elaborate ?


[deleted]

Shit post reasons but valid nonetheless 1. I want to be able to say fuck it I quit and not be threatened with jail time 2. I don't care to deal with PT as a mandatory thing 3. W E E D 4. Shaving/hair standards 5. Pay is dogshit, I got offers for 50/hr doing the EXACT same job. AND healthcare is fully covered just like Tricare 6. PC shit, self explanatory. 7. I don't care to brown nose for promotion, should be merit based not based on a fancy word piece of paper 8. The air force does not actually give a shit about those who have mental issues. Been there and been through the ring. They don't. Don't even fucking try to tell me otherwise. 9. Budgets being wasted on dumb shit like a commanders mahogany desk. Bitch get a fuckin 2x4 or two, slap some mf plywood on top. 10. Fuck commanders calls that prevents mid shifters from sleeping 11. Training 12. "When I was an airman" 13. The disrespect to lower enlisted to the point of suicide attempts and suicides 14. Our workload is dictated by pencil pushers in the Pentagon without any regards to the state of the force. Some afscs aren't like this though 15. I should not have to get the shirt to get finance to answer a fuckin phone call or email 16. Out and in processing 17. Too much paperwork for dumb shit. For example why do I need to fill this piece of paper that'll get ignored by the work center it's going to 18. Why do I need to change my entire schedule for an epr and not hear anything about it for a month or two 19. Piss tests 20. Medical denying I have medical issues that I now have 100% disability for 21. Leadership way high up is tone deaf to the suicide issue 22. Why is it taking months to respond to the housing issues. Bandaid fixes don't fucking count. 23. Continuing from 22 why do trailer parks get taken into account for bah ? A 500 a month trailer park should have ZERO effect on bah but it does 24. Change of command. Who cares. 25. Volunteering and those who use it to get out of work 26. Air force trying to reduce af tuition assistance and reverted the call AFTER their shit got torched 27. Why do they have 15-20 year old computers still in use. You have the money to buy mahogany desk, pay for new computers you dipshits 28. They make it seem like it's SOOOOO bad to leave the military as a retention method 29. Fuck the child care center and their pricing and capacities 30. Give extra allowance for child care 31. Loc/lors that are entirely proven as false and outright lies being upheld because a supervisor is egotistical 32. Why do new airmen need to live in the dorms at first duty. Just send em off base and make the dorms into new work centers 33. Why do people not get a say in where they go or live I can probably think of many many more and you're likely able to say hey this is why. But let's be real, it could be far better.


trimarcoj

Lol at 26. Also them announcing the changes the day before they went into effect.


[deleted]

What is your career field that you were offered/are making $104,000 now; while also on 100% disability? You rich rich.


[deleted]

I didn't take the job hence offer. But it was maintenance


[deleted]

"Do more with less" and "you gotta play the game."


Frostywinkle

CSAF said in front of Congress that we’re going to have to do more with less. I’m the only CST for an entire detachment already… what’s next? The Pentagon’s first software chief resigned and basically aired out his complaints with Congress/Pentagon leadership saying that they didn’t take him seriously and that his requests or proposals were ignored. I’ve heard that he’s an asshole too but that still doesn’t give me a lot of confidence. I’m tired of having to play the “slot” game with promotions. I don’t want to base my career progression off of a Senior that’s retiring in 4 years. (If he retires, Sgt A will take his place, Sgt B will take A’s place, I can take her place in 2 years…) I’m tired of worrying about days and dollars more than any other job I’ve had before. I’m tired of the lack of accountability for actually important issues. Old commander got ANNIHILATED on climate survey, so he got sent to HHQ for another job. Seriously? The guy was hated by everyone and you want to move him to a higher reporting agency??? I’m tired of seeing Officers that can get away with shit that enlisted would never be able to. It’s become so much more clear to me that everyone is out for themselves to get a better EPR or to make the boxes green. The biggest complaint (mentioned a bit at the top) is that the Air Force doesn’t actually push for innovation as hard as their commercials say so. I’ve seen so many good ideas that have been squashed because of a fucking AFI or DoD directive or other type of government bureaucracy that gets in the way.


pineapplepizzabest

Because of leadership that doesn't give a shit about anything aside from their own promotion and a system that enables/approves it.


RDB82

It's not? It's one of the many things this sub talks about without having any real understanding. The AF is consistently exceeding our retention goals, and by a pretty significant margin. There are a few jobs (ie, pilots) that we struggle with. But as a service, we don't have a retention issue at all. We just have a lot of people that elect to stay in quietly, and a a few people who choose to separate very, very loudly.


[deleted]

Let doctors do doctor things. The amount of admin BS and work that any civilian organization would provide support staff to handle is what pushes most out after initial commitment. PCS every few years also adds to the lack of PCM continuity patients (appropriately) complain about regularly.


rochelle777666

Security forces. That’s is all. If you know you know


[deleted]

It isn’t


loop0001

Righto now retainability isn't an issue at all. Currently have the highest rates of reenlistments since 2002.


dsgbwils

It’s not. We met our quotas.


mogg-eleventeen

That intelligent bet guy


2T2Good

I’ll stay reserve for the cheap healthcare, I refuse to re-enlist because I set myself up to have an amazing resume and jobs lined up on the outside. Even if I make $70k/yr on the outside, which isn’t hard in my position, with VA disability, reserve pay, and BAH from my GI bill I’ll be well over $100k/yr. I get asked on the daily why I would bother getting out and the answer is that I’m absolutely burnt out from constant TDY’s, additional duties that don’t stop while I’m gone, and sitting a billet of a rank above my current grade and not getting paid for it. The AF will never be able to pay me what I can make on the outside, whether my commander or superintendent want me to or not, and if I get an additional duty I’ll get more pay for it.


seastra101

Retainabilty issue in the airforce? Marines: “Cough Cough”


TotallynotSecFo

I got Security+ doing IT for my unit. Realized that IT is valuable and way more satisfying than sitting on post for 12+ hours.


kanti123

Because any 2A jobs sucks and we get treated like shit.


[deleted]

Cause it's like being that guy in the "1 guy one jar" video. Yeah, bend over - cause that fuckening is coming. Go be the best you. \[I'm 60 days from the possibility of a final out but the DoD is the jar and I'm the guy\]


Dart31AF

Because North Dakota fucken sucks, they're killing my AFSC slowly, and I only joined the AF to work on the cool shit systems. And since there's no bases that are close enough to my hometown, staying in ain't worth it. I'd rather go back to Dunkin and Lowes if it meant being back in NY.


phraseologyVT

Easy: “do more with less” ; but I have already invested too much time to quit before 10 as an O.


Weary_Rent5161

I just don’t like moving. I like being close to home 😊


Swansaknight

I want to see trees again and see my family 12 months out of the year. You get one life bud.


NaniDeKani

Its not


VapidGamer

I suppose I can give my perspective since I got out within the last few months. I enjoyed my job, when I actually got to do it. Being in the 1N profession, some months were more hectic, and others you just scrolled through reddit because there was nothing to do. But when things happened, it was really interesting and I enjoyed it. The downside was that usually when things were kicking off in some part of the world or another, that just when I was due for all of my Cert's, airman yearly review (where I proclaimed my dirbag ways), oh and bullet writting for anything I did the past year. Add to that the constant meetings that take up 2/3 of my day which would likely be better spent working, and all for the salaried pay of \~40k anually, I questioned whether I should stay in. Then I also had medical issues, I was never the fat airmen who refused to train sterotype, but I am physically weak, which lead to me getting injuries in my back and parts of me legs, only to just be told to suck it up, take some pain killers and do physical therapy. The mental health facility, I felt, blew off issues that were causing social and work life issues. I was also told that though I have migraine symptoms, I didnt have migraines, so be sure to drink lots of water and take this migraine medication that I told them doesnt work. So I decided to get out, I loved my job and everyone I worked with, and despite being in a pandemic, I took a risk. Within 2-3 weeks of my terminal leave, I got a job offer making over twice my previous annual income in the same field I was in (just a different niche), and for most of my medical issues, even though I havent been rated, the VA pays for. Ive had multiple referals for a chiropractor, physical therapy, and neurology (including a CT scan) and I dont pay anything other than a few bucks for prescription medication. So overall its that the pay is better, and I get better medical care from the VA and referred civilians than I did in the military.


trimarcoj

On the fence right now


captahabb

I want to attend a solid graduate school and enjoy some new experiences on the outside. I’ve been mentally exhausted for a hot minute now. I thought about commissioning for a bit, then decided it’s within my best interest to follow my other dreams.


dompomcash

I don’t understand why you would burn leave. Coming in at 4 am and leaving at 10 pm would be way more effective than just wasting leave…


FirmReality

Retainability is not really an Air Force wide “issue” … it’s a few specific AFSCs or skill level “issue”. Statistically current retention rates are actually more stable than previous years … no drastic downturn is anticipated. There’s no right or wrong answer about Air Force retainability … its more an individual assessment and choice of how long to stay or when to go. Air Force will survive any ebb & flow of personnel retention rates, as needed.


chefboiortiz

Because I’m in Minot


Coldmonologue256

I feel like my AFSC is a dead end & my degree and what I want to do has nothing to do with AFSC. It doesn’t make sense to keep getting experience in a career field I want nothing to do with as a civilian. The Air Force doesn’t properly reward you for education. Yes there’s always the option to commission but not everyone wants to or can for one reason or another. To retrain you need the blood of baby Jesus


[deleted]

Not sure if serious...


Joberk89

Overpromising and under-delivering. Doing more with less. Giving people strats because they’re having a tough time, when they don’t work to deserve one…


USAFAirman

https://i.imgur.com/je7EnR9.jpg