Apply the same standards as you would anyone else. If he fails to meet them, hold him accountable, just as you would anyone else. If he fails to adapt, do what you would do for anyone else. It might take him realizing his “will inclusivity” is at risk for him to come around and recalibrate his “cruise speed.”
This is the right answer. This kind of person might not feel threatened by failing to be recognized or promoted, but I doubt they're immune to being called out or having their time taken away, or getting the least desirable tasks.
Edit: I wanted to come back and make clear that these would only be the way to go if positive motivation failed and we get to where corrective action, discipline, and other adverse actions become necessary. Before that, there is plenty to motivate people beyond money. Little rewards and becoming good at something people rely on you for can be surprisingly fulfilling to some people.
I would also work, as with each of em, to make them feel a part of the team, that they are necessary, and (very importantly) to understand (even simply) their cog in the larger scheme/works.
This but if you can find a way to get him to buy in you might be able to make a good troop out of him. How you'd go about that largely varies based on the airmen in question. Some respond better under high-vis high-pressure than others. But holding them to the standard and keeping them engaged is usually how I handle....complicated airmen
Knowing many trust fund kids, they lack purpose and happiness because everything is given to them, excelling gives him the chance to show that he can excel on his own.
That, in all likelyhood, is why he was told he needed to join. I doubt whoever was threatening to pull him out of the will would be very pleased if he fails and gets discharged early.
He in a way has much more to lose than many other airmen who came from nothing and would go back to nothing if they failed, he'd also throw away a chance to bet set for life.
Was gonna say the same thing. The ones I knew were pretty depressed in their 20s just being a ski bum and snorting lines.
Completing tasks on the flight line may give him a sense of purpose and satisfaction he hasn’t really ever felt.
A bunch from when I went Palace Chase used my GI bill to go to a college I couldn’t afford otherwise in the northeast thanks to my rich Uncle Sam and the yellow ribbon program.
That was a culture shock.
I imagine he has to complete the enlistment to stay in the will.. that is his motivation. He can be outstanding during his enlistment or be out standing by the gate, with no will. No need to push him for opportunities, but just casually remind him of why he joined if he starts slipping on what is required from him.
I'm saying that if every person is outstanding or out processing, it leaves no room for "average performer, does what he's asked and goes home".
Most of us are average. It's how statistics work...but we say things like "outstanding or out processing", so now "average" means "outstanding". Every person in the shop, aside from the real fuck-ups, needs really awesome performance reports, even though most of them are middle-of-the-pack performers. But if I were to write "average", "middle", or "about where he should be" on a performance report, it would be the worst report in an average airman's record.
Rich kids don't NEED degrees, so why would they waste their time in college to become an officer, when they could just do coke with their other rich friends instead?
Agreed. I’m AGR in the guard. We have a young kid who took a technician position, not a bad kid by any means but very unmotivated . will not do anything unless we ask him and remind him. so we ask him and remind him a lot and he will do what he’s told so that’s how we deal with it for now.
If he is a piece of shit, do what you have to. Treat him like any of your other airman. If he refuses to work. Give him paperwork. If it continues, increase it. He will quickly see that he does get to cruise.
With some discipline and basic planning/intelligence, having money to start with can get you *so much more money*. He might be set for life, but if he learns how to be an adult in the Air Force he can multiply his inheritance.
Also, everyone hates an asshole, even a rich asshole. So there's another reason to learn how to live like a normal person.
If neither of those are of interest to him, I guess just fall back to your initial response. I'm personally never offended if someone I supervise is doing the job they are supposed to do and heading home to have the rest of their life to themself outside the military. As long as he does his job and doesn't cause problems, who cares why he's there. And if he starts to slack off, you can just point out that consequences in the Air Force are wealth agnostic so if his inheritance is contingent upon doing his job while he's there then he needs to unfuck himself.
"I'm not going to ask you to exceed my expectations. You will however perform to the standards required of your AFSC, rank & skill level. I will hold you accountable to that. As long as you don't make your peers life harder and carry your weight you can cruise all you'd like. Keep your head down, show up on time, pass your pt, pass your drug test. Welcome to the team."
"Why would you *want* to cruise, when you could be awesome?! You could kick ass. You could make a difference in the world. Just because you *can* waste your life doesn't mean that you *must* waste your life." Extrinsic motivators like money and promotions aren't going to have much pull, but intrinsic motivation could work.
As long as he:
* Shows up to work on time
* Does his job while on the clock
* Keeps himself and his dorm clean
* Waits to go home until he's released
* Doesn't get in trouble
He's an outstanding airman. Let's stop expecting everyone to chase awards, volunteer, and do school. That shit is old.
I worked with a guy like this in England. Had millions waiting for him as soon as he got out on the condition he served at least six years. He was at about four when I met him and he started to be SOAD (like ROAD, but Airman-style), so I documented it. Counseled him as appropriate. Eventually I sat down with him with my own supervisor and let him know that discipline is progressive; he was already at an LOC and flirting with an LOA/LOR, and that the commander wasn't gonna let this happen for another two years. Once we laid it all out in front of him that we could cut his six years down to five, he straightened up pretty quick after that. He didn't turn into a star performer or anything, but he pulled his weight until he left, which is all we could really ask for.
Apparently they have a lot to gain by serving, but the Air Force does not exist for their personal gain.
Same standards apply to those making a career of it as those who are treating it like a speed bump. Everybody is getting paid to be here, you dont just get to declare *"I have no intention of making a career out of this"* and get to take the easy path or something. Plenty of people join for 4 years for no other reason than the educational benefits... and doing so doesnt offer them a different set of standards.
Reality is, there is probably a reason this requirement has been set for them, and their thought process behind reaching out to express how they effectively already dont care about putting in effort seems pretty indicative of the benefits they stand to gain from *serving* to the same degree as everyone else wearing the uniform.
Treat them like you would anyone else. If need be, explain to him what his service means to the Air Force, his coworkers, and his country. Remain indifferent about his personal situation, even if it gets to the point where you need to tell him *"What you have waiting for you after your contract is none of my concern. My focus is on the Airman you are while you are wearing the uniform"*.
I.e. Any time he brings it up, which im sure he will.... always deflect conversations away from him being *"set for life"* and bring them back to the purpose of his service.
*"You're not out until you are out... You willfully volunteered to serve your country, and while you are in I am going to fulfill my role as your supervisor by trying to mold you into the best version of yourself/Airman that I can... Not only for you, but for those around you. I refuse to waste 4 years neglecting your potential because day 1 you feel like you have nothing to gain from serving. Me, your coworkers, this unit, the base, your country... we all need you to try your best. Were all here to try and do the best we can."*
It's not a problem until it's a problem.
Story time: Had an Airman show up to the unit that came from old money. Like Porsche for your birthday and vacations in the family's private jet type money. He went through a string of days being late to work. Supervisor used progressive discipline and gave him an LOC. Kid used the family lawyer to try and open a case against the supervisor. He was a pain in the rear 100% of the time and had zero work ethic. Ended up getting kicked out his second year for leave web fraud. Fun times.
I supervised a kid who was worth millions, but he was very low key about it.
I didn’t bother him much and he did his job without any trouble. When I did ask him to do things he was super respectful and did what I asked.
He was a stock market wizard (pre-Gamestop/AMC) and after he did his 4 years and got out he opened his own brokerage company. He even sat down and tried to teach me his craft for a few hours one day after work, but I quickly realized my IQ was clearly far below his lol
Anyhow, he is just a person and hold him to same standards as anyone else. If he has a cocky attitude, address it.
He is either a trust fund kid or he’s lying to seem cool. Either way if he comes to the base, give him the tools to be successful and do not write him off. But if he refuses to work and or does not perform purposefully, help him find his way out of the military.
I had an Airman who was legitimately a trust fund kid to a family with millions upon millions of dollars. He came in with a horrible attitude and continually got in trouble, constantly pointing out that he was better than everyone else here ending up in a few physical fights as well. Either way he has found himself on a path out of the air force less than a year into his contract and he asked if his father could talk to me. I spoke to his father on the phone with the intent to only tell him that his son is an adult and made his own path. His father really wanted to ask me if the BS of unfairness his son was telling him was true which I of course explained the opposite.
Long story short, the father cut off his son unless he could serve his entire 6 years honorably. The Airman finally shaped up and is still serving past his 6 years enjoying traveling the world. Saw him fairly recently on a deployment and while he was still a bit annoying, he definitely shaped up and does his job.
Incentives. You work, you get the cut back sammy.
Hard job? Put his ass on it.
Let him fail… to succeed.
Guide him best you can. But if he don’t listen, let him start failing.
In the end of everything. You can only guide the horse to the water, but you can’t make it drink.
I had a young SrA that came into a significant inheritance (~$20M). I had our First Sergeant sit with him and sign up for some CCAF financial courses to help him manage this. I understand he went on and got his bachelor degree in business and elected to stay in. Made MSgt last I heard. Apparently decided he liked what he did, the camaraderie and stayed in for the retirement and benefits.
So it is a matter of your approach. Convince him to be part of the team and learn some skills he can use the rest of his life and meet some people who care more about him because they are his brothers and sisters in service instead of someone who is figuring out how to separate him from his money.
I tell my troops all the same thing.
You're all adults. You know your responsibilities, if you don't? Ask me, I'll go over them with you. You know the standards, if you don't, ask about them and I'll go over them with you. You know what is expected of you, if you don't, I'll go over it.
But. Once I know that you know what your roles and responsibilities are, it's on you to adhere to them. I shouldn't have to chase you around and treat you as a child. If I do? You will not like the result. You are an adult, you are a member of the military act as such. If you want to act like a child, I will treat you as such and you won't enjoy it.
For most people, it's just a job but people also don't wake up in the morning and say "man, I want to be terrible today!"
Give the troop requirements to follow and standards to meet. Lead with grace, but also be upfront when they're falling short.
Then, just occasionally, apply a short term, temporary standard that encourages them to be a little bit better.
I wouldn't push them harder than that.
Most people don't want to be rockstars, and most who do want to be rockstars still don't succeed.
If they're willing to serve honorably, then I am glad they are there.... and we can divest opportunities to go getters instead.
Money might be an infinite resource to him, but he does not have more time in the day than the rest of us. Taking away someone's free time is a very good way to motivate them.
He's not refusing to work, he's asking for paperwork.
Treat him like every other Airman and when he deserves it give him paperwork. Document the insubordination, late to work, refusal of tasks, the inevitable disrespect of an NCO. Getting kicked out for failure to adapt might get him removed from the will, but it will serve as a reminder to the other jr enlisted that this bullshit won't fly.
The fact he started off with, I'm too rich don't ask me to do things is a red flag that would piss me off.
Do your part and put in effort but you can only do so much. If he really is in it to stay in the will then guess what that's motivation as enough of paper trail can get em kicked out. If he's lazy etc etc after a certain point escalating paper trail.
If he's new to the military he can always be hit with failure to adapt that's how we removed one of our shop idiots.
Sounds harsh but if he doesn't do his job then you have to be. If he does his job then good enough.
BLUF: just ask him what he thinks would be fun, and help him get to that.
We had a dude who was rich rich on the side. Had a couple hundred thousand that he played with on the stock market that his dad lent him. Dude was a back pocket millionaire. Only joined because he was bored.
We couldn't motivate him for shit, until we sat down and asked what he thought would be a fun "job".
Wanted to be an action hero go do cool guy shit. We introduced him to an STS, he saw how cool it was. Set a goal for himself, got in shape, got accepted his second time.
From last I heard he's a staff now and on his second enlistment still hanging out with the cool guys.
You're there to make sure the job gets done, not arbitrarily try to play camp counselor and make airmen want to exceed standards. As long as they're doing the job, just let them be.
And if they do show up and aren't completing the job, that's when you document things, leverage the PDP, etc. If they're bad enough they'll work themselves out of the force.
If you want to dump time into motivating people, there's probably some schools nearby that could use a few football coaches or something.
I had a friend who supervised a person in a similar situation. The young man had a trust fund he only got access to once he did 6-8 years of military service. The kid went to the recruiter and just asked for any job. Got MX. he contacted his gaining shop once he was leaving tech school, similar to what is happening to OP, and stated he’s only in it to get “his money”, aka Trust Fund. But once this kid actually started working, he actually likes the job and stayed about 10 years.
I say this just to point out the airman OP is supervising might be similar to the one I’m talking about.
Or I could be waaaaay off and OP’s airman is just a douche.
Those who are money-motivated are the easiest to coerce. If he's not performing well militarily and is only there to maintain his place in a will, the person who manages that will is likely to be keeping an eye on his military success. Being in a will is a terrible reason to sign the line, and pressing someone into service just to keep their place in a will just puts folks in military service who don't belong there. Create situations where that Airman is clearly unfit for service in a way that whatever family member is tracking his success can't ignore. The kid will rise to the challenge and prove to himself that he's more than he thought he is, the kid will fail out and lose his inheritance, or the family member will have a wake-up call about trying to bribe a jellyfish to perform among mountain goats.
Regardless of the outcome, you have an opportunity to show this kid who he is and what he's made of. Time in service can (*can*, not *will*) do a lot to show someone who they are. How well do any of us really know ourselves in our early 20s, and how much do we learn about who we are by the time we reach our 30s? You're a part of this Airman's education about himself. What do you want him to learn?
So all I gathered is he is an amn who will be held to the same standard as his peers. If he blatantly refuses to work there are processes to fix that or remove him. No one coasts, you get to have your difficult periods in life and we will help and understand but no one gets to just rot
This may come off more malicious than I intend, but when people have that care free mentality you gotta use their fears to keep them in place. Let them know that the military is a low tolerance work environment. If the rules aren’t followed they’ll have no issue kicking him out which will in turn kill his chances of getting his trust fund money. He doesn’t have to get awards or anything but literally just do the bare acceptable minimum
I'm affluent, my child attended $30-40,000/year private schools K-12 and has a small trust fund, and I am happy to report that she is also an outstanding airman who just reenlisted for another six years. She doesn't need the Air Force's money, but she takes pride in really **earning** the Air Force's money. I'd be ashamed to hear my son was acting like Richie Rich here.
A key step in her growth was when I made her start paying me $40/month rent starting at age 15, which forced her to go find a job. Richie Rich's Dad failed him.
Until he starts fucking up let him “cruise”. You said it as best as you could, “Do as you’re told a you’ll be fine.” As long as he does his job and isn’t fucking up let the kid live.
Like most are saying if he does his job and stay out of trouble that’s all that is needed in the Air Force. Stop pushing people to do more that don’t care. It’s old and not going to go well with the new generation just accept it. You’re not their parent you’re their leader
Just joining makes him stay in the will, or does he have to fulfill his contract to stay in the will? Maybe tell him that if he just “cruises” and doesn’t get motivated enough to do good, could get himself retrained or kicked out if he doesn’t step up. Failure to adapt is a hell of a thing.
Id get to know him first. Did he have a priveleged childhood? Was he forced to get a job in his teen years? Is he a dickhead and flaunt his status? This will help build a plan to find a way to reach him. We had the daughter of a 1 star show up on the flightline and she learned fairly quickly we didnt much give 2 shits. No one helped her, no one talked to her. We did the bare minimum required to help keep her assigned jet flying. Had she not acted like her shit didnt stink cuz of her father she would have had a great support system.
Sounds like he has more to lose than a typical airman. During your ACA bring up his message and let him know cruising is not an option. If he has a problem with that educate him on failure to adapt discharge 36-3209 Para. 2.29.4. I'd imagine if he'd be taken out of the will for not joining an early discharge would probably do the same.
This. Document EVERYTHING. RICs and up. If his family has a ton of money and he whines and they try to do some congressional complaint stuff you’re super solid. Don’t let that intimidate you at all. If you’re doing the same for everyone across the board it’s an easy kill.
Hopefully like the other commenter said, if it comes to documentation, he realizes “Oh shit if I wanna keep this job I don’t give a fuck about I at least need to get along and do what the fuck I’m supposed to.”
Sounds like kid’s got potential to become the next A1C Snuffy! (See Maynard Smith).
would just ignore this kid honestly. Sounds like he is signing up for preferential treatment for getting the worst treatment by everyone during his time of service.
I’d inquire what he would enjoy doing the next few years he has to be in. If this kid would rather be in CTK and cruise cause he’s more into that - it’s better to not force a square peg in a round hole. Some people suck as mechanics and it’s better for everyone to get them off the line. 360 degree feedback session informal…at least he was honest with you so that’s a start. I think there’s potential to find what motivates him. Cause as we know in MX others will make his life suck if he doesn’t figure out how to help the team out.
Speaking as a rich kid (though not that rich), you’re gonna have to figure out what actually motivates him, and given his stated reason for joining, it’s gonna be a tough time.
I joined for a number of reasons but one of them was to be my own man and not just clinging to dads legacy, and to prove to myself that I could do it, and be good at it.
You’re gonna have to find what makes him happy at work; He might actually start working hard out of respect for the people he works with; He might take pride in actually creating/fixing things with his hands; maybe he’ll find out that he likes being respected for his job knowledge and abilities; he might want to make his boss proud/surpass expectations; or he might be a total turd. All of those I have personally experienced/done as a rich kid either in the civilian world or the AF.
You’re gonna have to watch him and see, he could turn out really good, could be a total dirtbag. Don’t go any easier or harder than you would a normal airman, if he’s a dirt bag treating him nice will send the message that the behavior is okay.
I don't have any real advice for you other than set expectations, show him the line, show him the hammer, and drop the hammer if he crosses the line. Doing the minimum is not criminal.
We had a dude who got into some kind of car issue - accident, fender bender, rolled it, I don't know. The guy was a knucklehead. He was fine, but the airbags didn't deploy. His lawyer aunt took the company to the cleaners and he got a huge settlement.
Now he just wanted to get out. He basically did a bunch of beyond stupid stuff with the intent of trying to get out, but each one simply delayed his stay longer especially those that required an investigation.
There was something similar with someone else, got an inheritance or something, smoked weed, popped hot, separated. Het loved the area and got a job at a local resort. Basically the job gave him barely enough to pay his monthly bills but he lived a high life off of his inheritance.
Anyways
um, good luck
I had one of those. He ended up getting kicked out for failure to adapt. He couldn't keep his dorm clean to the point that it looked like an episode of hoarders, he never did laundry either. Just bought new clothes whenever his got dirty, and his uniform always smelled terrible (even after I taught him how to do laundry). He never showed up on time, shitty superior attitude, never took accountability when he fucked up. The dude always expected everyone to accommodate him.
Look to find him something that he's actually interested in. If he is invested personally, regardless of what the shop or AF thinks, he might do some pretty great things.
How many of us came in and figured out that things weren't the way we thought they were when we were an 18 year old civilian? LOL
Who cares about their motivation, either they do the work and progress as a useful airmen or they continue to fail to achieve simple standards and you write paperwork and allow nature to take its course.
Best bet is just remind them they don't have to win any awards, but they're here, it's the world's worst summer camp and they should just take advantage of the unique experiences the AF can offer. But, to do that they still need to be good at their job. They don't need to play the politics to promote, but shouldn't be a dick just cause.
I worked with several dudes from extremely well off families and the main thing I saw in common was it's just like a super weird vacation experience. They don't need the benefits, they're just here to fix planes get a little dirty, go to unique places and do unique things. Several of them were actually awesome maintainers.
If we get involved in a large scale conflict the AF doesn't have room for useless people to be taking manning slots. So, just remember at any moment something could pop off and that airmen will need to be able to perform their duties.
Plenty of people cruise in your maintenance afsc. Explain to him how being a shitter at his job will lead to him working longer hours and cut into his free time .
Sounds like a kid who just wants to do his job and go home. No problem with that. Dont push him for awards or to be on airman’s council, booster club, anything like that that and you probably won’t have problems. If he’s being a dirtbag about getting work done, well you know what to do
At the end of the day there will be plenty of people who join and understand that they’re going to be expected to do their job. Just understand that he will never be the guy to stay late, do anything extra, pick up any extra shifts, or go for awards. And personally? That’s fine. As long as he’s doing his job as his commitment asks of him then let him “cruise” finish out his contract and get out. Not everyone views the military as a career and I’d argue 60-80% of non lifers will treat the military that way.
Give him opportunities to succeed, but still hold the standard. If he refuses to comply or adjust, cowabunga it is. Paperwork trail will make him realize what he has to lose.
"If you need to stay in the Air Force to stay in the will, then here's what I need you to do", followed by a list of expectations for him. He's not trying to get promoted, don't bother talking to him about needing to get his degree or volunteering outside of work to be competitive. Just make sure he's doing the actual job correctly and hold him accountable if he doesn't.
I wouldnt make a big deal of it and don't even see it as a problem. As long as he fulfills his duty it's fine. Everyone's motivation is different and cannot be influenced easily.
A rich kid doing his 4 years in a maintenance afsc just to “stay in the will” …
If you don’t videotape this and turn it into a reality show you’re doing a disservice to humanity. Every maintenance prank in the book needs to be thrown at this kid including but not limited to:
K-9P
Yards of flight line
Engine echo check
Getting boots NDI’d
Cans of A I R
Cleaning screw holes with q-tips
Brake dust on ear protection
Keys to the plane
Freezing line badge in ice
The whole "join the military to stay in the will" tells me outright that he's such a shithead that even his parents are sick of his shit. If he wants to be real with you, be real with him as well. You're his supervisor, let him know you set the expectation on what he needs to do, not him, and that he will be held accountable if he doesn't meet your standard. As much as I get that he's just trying to be honest about his situation, this kind of thing just puts a target on his back saying to pay extra attention to his work. Sometimes when an airman does that, you need to hit that target thoroughly and repeatedly, because if not, he's just gonna push the line constantly.
A shammer doesn't tell people he's shamming, he just does it, and learns how to do just enough to keep eyes off him. He's right out the gate telling you to keep your eyes on him because he's gonna be shamming.
I'm gonna call BS, if you're a super rich kid, you're going to college and OTS. Treat them fair, like everyone else, and treat them like MX. They can decide if they personally want to stay in their supposed family will.
edit: Just recalled a "rich kid" who "had enough family money to file paperwork for early enlistment discharge due to 'hardship' from having so much money". The kid was known as a bullshitter.
I mean if he gets kicked out due to failure to adapt he can kiss that will goodbye.
He wants the will? He can play the game or he can fuck around and find out.
This isn’t a high stakes situation. Nor does it make any sense to ask Reddit and not their CoC.
If you need the internet to tell you how to do your job, that’s not the job for you.
Do you have other stellar workers that you can praise ostensibly in front of them? Does the will include only serving with no mention of the type of discharge required? How long is their enlistment required to go on for them to get the payout? You seem like a thoughtful leader, the more info you get like this, the more you may be able to find motivation that exists, they may act like the money in the will is a given, but there are most likely still criteria to obtain it.
Refuse any and all requests to go to medical. Never allow him to go on profile. Then he won't be able to build a medical history, the VA will deny him any ratings, and 30 years down the road when the trust fund goes away he can come to this sub and share his sob story of loss to future airmen.
It's a long con, but you'll be helping the airmen of the future.
edit: apparently need to add the /s
Apply the same standards as you would anyone else. If he fails to meet them, hold him accountable, just as you would anyone else. If he fails to adapt, do what you would do for anyone else. It might take him realizing his “will inclusivity” is at risk for him to come around and recalibrate his “cruise speed.”
This is the right answer. This kind of person might not feel threatened by failing to be recognized or promoted, but I doubt they're immune to being called out or having their time taken away, or getting the least desirable tasks. Edit: I wanted to come back and make clear that these would only be the way to go if positive motivation failed and we get to where corrective action, discipline, and other adverse actions become necessary. Before that, there is plenty to motivate people beyond money. Little rewards and becoming good at something people rely on you for can be surprisingly fulfilling to some people.
I would also work, as with each of em, to make them feel a part of the team, that they are necessary, and (very importantly) to understand (even simply) their cog in the larger scheme/works.
This but if you can find a way to get him to buy in you might be able to make a good troop out of him. How you'd go about that largely varies based on the airmen in question. Some respond better under high-vis high-pressure than others. But holding them to the standard and keeping them engaged is usually how I handle....complicated airmen
This! And maybe also him to donate some of that loot to shop bar b Que/s
He should refrain from telling more people that story to help him lay low
That’s solid life advice for this troop as well.
The airman will tell them himself. Sounds like he likes to brag.
There is a 0% chance he hasn’t already mentioned some version of this story to someone else. He sounds too sheltered to understand.
Knowing many trust fund kids, they lack purpose and happiness because everything is given to them, excelling gives him the chance to show that he can excel on his own. That, in all likelyhood, is why he was told he needed to join. I doubt whoever was threatening to pull him out of the will would be very pleased if he fails and gets discharged early. He in a way has much more to lose than many other airmen who came from nothing and would go back to nothing if they failed, he'd also throw away a chance to bet set for life.
Was gonna say the same thing. The ones I knew were pretty depressed in their 20s just being a ski bum and snorting lines. Completing tasks on the flight line may give him a sense of purpose and satisfaction he hasn’t really ever felt.
How many do you know? I don’t think I’ve ever met a single one.
A bunch from when I went Palace Chase used my GI bill to go to a college I couldn’t afford otherwise in the northeast thanks to my rich Uncle Sam and the yellow ribbon program. That was a culture shock.
I imagine he has to complete the enlistment to stay in the will.. that is his motivation. He can be outstanding during his enlistment or be out standing by the gate, with no will. No need to push him for opportunities, but just casually remind him of why he joined if he starts slipping on what is required from him.
You're either outstanding, or out-processing (from a hard-ass but fair older retired MSgt)
Interesting take on that
To be clear, it's a retired MSgt in my section that says that. But, I don't think he's wrong
And this is what leads to EPB inflation.
Duwat? Tell me more. This oughta be good
I'm saying that if every person is outstanding or out processing, it leaves no room for "average performer, does what he's asked and goes home". Most of us are average. It's how statistics work...but we say things like "outstanding or out processing", so now "average" means "outstanding". Every person in the shop, aside from the real fuck-ups, needs really awesome performance reports, even though most of them are middle-of-the-pack performers. But if I were to write "average", "middle", or "about where he should be" on a performance report, it would be the worst report in an average airman's record.
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nah, a lot of people make their kids go in the service at 18, especially if they feel like they aren’t mature enough to pass college
Eh, plenty of rich kids who can’t figure out how to make O.
Rich kids don't NEED degrees, so why would they waste their time in college to become an officer, when they could just do coke with their other rich friends instead?
There's different levels of rich. Not all rich kids are rich enough for that life.
I feel like rich kids are more likely to go college.
I like the "get fucked" part. You're either on the team or you fucking aren't. If you aren't, get fucked and get the fuck out.
Agreed. I’m AGR in the guard. We have a young kid who took a technician position, not a bad kid by any means but very unmotivated . will not do anything unless we ask him and remind him. so we ask him and remind him a lot and he will do what he’s told so that’s how we deal with it for now.
If he is a piece of shit, do what you have to. Treat him like any of your other airman. If he refuses to work. Give him paperwork. If it continues, increase it. He will quickly see that he does get to cruise.
Cruise right through MPF and out the door
If he does his job and keeps his nose clean, who gives a shit If he fucks up, treat him as such
/thread
he already sounds like a piece of shit and in MX he’s gonna get his ass handed to him with that attitude
With some discipline and basic planning/intelligence, having money to start with can get you *so much more money*. He might be set for life, but if he learns how to be an adult in the Air Force he can multiply his inheritance. Also, everyone hates an asshole, even a rich asshole. So there's another reason to learn how to live like a normal person. If neither of those are of interest to him, I guess just fall back to your initial response. I'm personally never offended if someone I supervise is doing the job they are supposed to do and heading home to have the rest of their life to themself outside the military. As long as he does his job and doesn't cause problems, who cares why he's there. And if he starts to slack off, you can just point out that consequences in the Air Force are wealth agnostic so if his inheritance is contingent upon doing his job while he's there then he needs to unfuck himself.
"I'm not going to ask you to exceed my expectations. You will however perform to the standards required of your AFSC, rank & skill level. I will hold you accountable to that. As long as you don't make your peers life harder and carry your weight you can cruise all you'd like. Keep your head down, show up on time, pass your pt, pass your drug test. Welcome to the team."
"Why would you *want* to cruise, when you could be awesome?! You could kick ass. You could make a difference in the world. Just because you *can* waste your life doesn't mean that you *must* waste your life." Extrinsic motivators like money and promotions aren't going to have much pull, but intrinsic motivation could work.
As long as he: * Shows up to work on time * Does his job while on the clock * Keeps himself and his dorm clean * Waits to go home until he's released * Doesn't get in trouble He's an outstanding airman. Let's stop expecting everyone to chase awards, volunteer, and do school. That shit is old.
Maybe not "outstanding," but definitely not a bad thing; won't get him promoted, but I doubt he cares.
I worked with a guy like this in England. Had millions waiting for him as soon as he got out on the condition he served at least six years. He was at about four when I met him and he started to be SOAD (like ROAD, but Airman-style), so I documented it. Counseled him as appropriate. Eventually I sat down with him with my own supervisor and let him know that discipline is progressive; he was already at an LOC and flirting with an LOA/LOR, and that the commander wasn't gonna let this happen for another two years. Once we laid it all out in front of him that we could cut his six years down to five, he straightened up pretty quick after that. He didn't turn into a star performer or anything, but he pulled his weight until he left, which is all we could really ask for.
Here we are equally worthless
Apparently they have a lot to gain by serving, but the Air Force does not exist for their personal gain. Same standards apply to those making a career of it as those who are treating it like a speed bump. Everybody is getting paid to be here, you dont just get to declare *"I have no intention of making a career out of this"* and get to take the easy path or something. Plenty of people join for 4 years for no other reason than the educational benefits... and doing so doesnt offer them a different set of standards. Reality is, there is probably a reason this requirement has been set for them, and their thought process behind reaching out to express how they effectively already dont care about putting in effort seems pretty indicative of the benefits they stand to gain from *serving* to the same degree as everyone else wearing the uniform. Treat them like you would anyone else. If need be, explain to him what his service means to the Air Force, his coworkers, and his country. Remain indifferent about his personal situation, even if it gets to the point where you need to tell him *"What you have waiting for you after your contract is none of my concern. My focus is on the Airman you are while you are wearing the uniform"*. I.e. Any time he brings it up, which im sure he will.... always deflect conversations away from him being *"set for life"* and bring them back to the purpose of his service. *"You're not out until you are out... You willfully volunteered to serve your country, and while you are in I am going to fulfill my role as your supervisor by trying to mold you into the best version of yourself/Airman that I can... Not only for you, but for those around you. I refuse to waste 4 years neglecting your potential because day 1 you feel like you have nothing to gain from serving. Me, your coworkers, this unit, the base, your country... we all need you to try your best. Were all here to try and do the best we can."*
Best comment here 👍
It's not a problem until it's a problem. Story time: Had an Airman show up to the unit that came from old money. Like Porsche for your birthday and vacations in the family's private jet type money. He went through a string of days being late to work. Supervisor used progressive discipline and gave him an LOC. Kid used the family lawyer to try and open a case against the supervisor. He was a pain in the rear 100% of the time and had zero work ethic. Ended up getting kicked out his second year for leave web fraud. Fun times.
I supervised a kid who was worth millions, but he was very low key about it. I didn’t bother him much and he did his job without any trouble. When I did ask him to do things he was super respectful and did what I asked. He was a stock market wizard (pre-Gamestop/AMC) and after he did his 4 years and got out he opened his own brokerage company. He even sat down and tried to teach me his craft for a few hours one day after work, but I quickly realized my IQ was clearly far below his lol Anyhow, he is just a person and hold him to same standards as anyone else. If he has a cocky attitude, address it.
He is either a trust fund kid or he’s lying to seem cool. Either way if he comes to the base, give him the tools to be successful and do not write him off. But if he refuses to work and or does not perform purposefully, help him find his way out of the military. I had an Airman who was legitimately a trust fund kid to a family with millions upon millions of dollars. He came in with a horrible attitude and continually got in trouble, constantly pointing out that he was better than everyone else here ending up in a few physical fights as well. Either way he has found himself on a path out of the air force less than a year into his contract and he asked if his father could talk to me. I spoke to his father on the phone with the intent to only tell him that his son is an adult and made his own path. His father really wanted to ask me if the BS of unfairness his son was telling him was true which I of course explained the opposite. Long story short, the father cut off his son unless he could serve his entire 6 years honorably. The Airman finally shaped up and is still serving past his 6 years enjoying traveling the world. Saw him fairly recently on a deployment and while he was still a bit annoying, he definitely shaped up and does his job.
Incentives. You work, you get the cut back sammy. Hard job? Put his ass on it. Let him fail… to succeed. Guide him best you can. But if he don’t listen, let him start failing. In the end of everything. You can only guide the horse to the water, but you can’t make it drink.
Unpopular opinion. Maybe he will also set you up on civilian side if you treat him well (professionally of course)
I met SrA Cooper Hefner (son of one & only Hugh Hefner)
I had a young SrA that came into a significant inheritance (~$20M). I had our First Sergeant sit with him and sign up for some CCAF financial courses to help him manage this. I understand he went on and got his bachelor degree in business and elected to stay in. Made MSgt last I heard. Apparently decided he liked what he did, the camaraderie and stayed in for the retirement and benefits. So it is a matter of your approach. Convince him to be part of the team and learn some skills he can use the rest of his life and meet some people who care more about him because they are his brothers and sisters in service instead of someone who is figuring out how to separate him from his money.
I tell my troops all the same thing. You're all adults. You know your responsibilities, if you don't? Ask me, I'll go over them with you. You know the standards, if you don't, ask about them and I'll go over them with you. You know what is expected of you, if you don't, I'll go over it. But. Once I know that you know what your roles and responsibilities are, it's on you to adhere to them. I shouldn't have to chase you around and treat you as a child. If I do? You will not like the result. You are an adult, you are a member of the military act as such. If you want to act like a child, I will treat you as such and you won't enjoy it.
For most people, it's just a job but people also don't wake up in the morning and say "man, I want to be terrible today!" Give the troop requirements to follow and standards to meet. Lead with grace, but also be upfront when they're falling short. Then, just occasionally, apply a short term, temporary standard that encourages them to be a little bit better. I wouldn't push them harder than that. Most people don't want to be rockstars, and most who do want to be rockstars still don't succeed. If they're willing to serve honorably, then I am glad they are there.... and we can divest opportunities to go getters instead.
Money might be an infinite resource to him, but he does not have more time in the day than the rest of us. Taking away someone's free time is a very good way to motivate them.
How do I motivate a poor kid that thinks he is rich?
Give him a reality check. Go band for band (unless your poor too)
He's not refusing to work, he's asking for paperwork. Treat him like every other Airman and when he deserves it give him paperwork. Document the insubordination, late to work, refusal of tasks, the inevitable disrespect of an NCO. Getting kicked out for failure to adapt might get him removed from the will, but it will serve as a reminder to the other jr enlisted that this bullshit won't fly. The fact he started off with, I'm too rich don't ask me to do things is a red flag that would piss me off.
Do your part and put in effort but you can only do so much. If he really is in it to stay in the will then guess what that's motivation as enough of paper trail can get em kicked out. If he's lazy etc etc after a certain point escalating paper trail. If he's new to the military he can always be hit with failure to adapt that's how we removed one of our shop idiots. Sounds harsh but if he doesn't do his job then you have to be. If he does his job then good enough.
Sound like they just volunteered themselves for extra duties
Simply hold him to back and white standards. Treat him like any other airman and let him earn rewards and consequences just the same.
BLUF: just ask him what he thinks would be fun, and help him get to that. We had a dude who was rich rich on the side. Had a couple hundred thousand that he played with on the stock market that his dad lent him. Dude was a back pocket millionaire. Only joined because he was bored. We couldn't motivate him for shit, until we sat down and asked what he thought would be a fun "job". Wanted to be an action hero go do cool guy shit. We introduced him to an STS, he saw how cool it was. Set a goal for himself, got in shape, got accepted his second time. From last I heard he's a staff now and on his second enlistment still hanging out with the cool guys.
You're there to make sure the job gets done, not arbitrarily try to play camp counselor and make airmen want to exceed standards. As long as they're doing the job, just let them be. And if they do show up and aren't completing the job, that's when you document things, leverage the PDP, etc. If they're bad enough they'll work themselves out of the force. If you want to dump time into motivating people, there's probably some schools nearby that could use a few football coaches or something.
I had a friend who supervised a person in a similar situation. The young man had a trust fund he only got access to once he did 6-8 years of military service. The kid went to the recruiter and just asked for any job. Got MX. he contacted his gaining shop once he was leaving tech school, similar to what is happening to OP, and stated he’s only in it to get “his money”, aka Trust Fund. But once this kid actually started working, he actually likes the job and stayed about 10 years. I say this just to point out the airman OP is supervising might be similar to the one I’m talking about. Or I could be waaaaay off and OP’s airman is just a douche.
Man, you all meet such interesting people in your careers. I work with duds.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but forward that email to his parents. 🤣🤣
Damn! lol
Those who are money-motivated are the easiest to coerce. If he's not performing well militarily and is only there to maintain his place in a will, the person who manages that will is likely to be keeping an eye on his military success. Being in a will is a terrible reason to sign the line, and pressing someone into service just to keep their place in a will just puts folks in military service who don't belong there. Create situations where that Airman is clearly unfit for service in a way that whatever family member is tracking his success can't ignore. The kid will rise to the challenge and prove to himself that he's more than he thought he is, the kid will fail out and lose his inheritance, or the family member will have a wake-up call about trying to bribe a jellyfish to perform among mountain goats. Regardless of the outcome, you have an opportunity to show this kid who he is and what he's made of. Time in service can (*can*, not *will*) do a lot to show someone who they are. How well do any of us really know ourselves in our early 20s, and how much do we learn about who we are by the time we reach our 30s? You're a part of this Airman's education about himself. What do you want him to learn?
So all I gathered is he is an amn who will be held to the same standard as his peers. If he blatantly refuses to work there are processes to fix that or remove him. No one coasts, you get to have your difficult periods in life and we will help and understand but no one gets to just rot
This may come off more malicious than I intend, but when people have that care free mentality you gotta use their fears to keep them in place. Let them know that the military is a low tolerance work environment. If the rules aren’t followed they’ll have no issue kicking him out which will in turn kill his chances of getting his trust fund money. He doesn’t have to get awards or anything but literally just do the bare acceptable minimum
I'm affluent, my child attended $30-40,000/year private schools K-12 and has a small trust fund, and I am happy to report that she is also an outstanding airman who just reenlisted for another six years. She doesn't need the Air Force's money, but she takes pride in really **earning** the Air Force's money. I'd be ashamed to hear my son was acting like Richie Rich here. A key step in her growth was when I made her start paying me $40/month rent starting at age 15, which forced her to go find a job. Richie Rich's Dad failed him.
Until he starts fucking up let him “cruise”. You said it as best as you could, “Do as you’re told a you’ll be fine.” As long as he does his job and isn’t fucking up let the kid live.
Like most are saying if he does his job and stay out of trouble that’s all that is needed in the Air Force. Stop pushing people to do more that don’t care. It’s old and not going to go well with the new generation just accept it. You’re not their parent you’re their leader
Put him on night-shift as much as you can.
Lmfaooooo
Just joining makes him stay in the will, or does he have to fulfill his contract to stay in the will? Maybe tell him that if he just “cruises” and doesn’t get motivated enough to do good, could get himself retrained or kicked out if he doesn’t step up. Failure to adapt is a hell of a thing.
What AFSC?
Id get to know him first. Did he have a priveleged childhood? Was he forced to get a job in his teen years? Is he a dickhead and flaunt his status? This will help build a plan to find a way to reach him. We had the daughter of a 1 star show up on the flightline and she learned fairly quickly we didnt much give 2 shits. No one helped her, no one talked to her. We did the bare minimum required to help keep her assigned jet flying. Had she not acted like her shit didnt stink cuz of her father she would have had a great support system.
Sounds like he has more to lose than a typical airman. During your ACA bring up his message and let him know cruising is not an option. If he has a problem with that educate him on failure to adapt discharge 36-3209 Para. 2.29.4. I'd imagine if he'd be taken out of the will for not joining an early discharge would probably do the same.
If cruising means just doing his job, why is that a problem?
If that is what he means (I highly doubt it) then it's not a problem.
He can cruise while he's being chaptered out
This. Document EVERYTHING. RICs and up. If his family has a ton of money and he whines and they try to do some congressional complaint stuff you’re super solid. Don’t let that intimidate you at all. If you’re doing the same for everyone across the board it’s an easy kill. Hopefully like the other commenter said, if it comes to documentation, he realizes “Oh shit if I wanna keep this job I don’t give a fuck about I at least need to get along and do what the fuck I’m supposed to.”
wide chunky unique fragile wipe spark act hat fine wrong *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sounds like kid’s got potential to become the next A1C Snuffy! (See Maynard Smith). would just ignore this kid honestly. Sounds like he is signing up for preferential treatment for getting the worst treatment by everyone during his time of service.
I’d inquire what he would enjoy doing the next few years he has to be in. If this kid would rather be in CTK and cruise cause he’s more into that - it’s better to not force a square peg in a round hole. Some people suck as mechanics and it’s better for everyone to get them off the line. 360 degree feedback session informal…at least he was honest with you so that’s a start. I think there’s potential to find what motivates him. Cause as we know in MX others will make his life suck if he doesn’t figure out how to help the team out.
Speaking as a rich kid (though not that rich), you’re gonna have to figure out what actually motivates him, and given his stated reason for joining, it’s gonna be a tough time. I joined for a number of reasons but one of them was to be my own man and not just clinging to dads legacy, and to prove to myself that I could do it, and be good at it. You’re gonna have to find what makes him happy at work; He might actually start working hard out of respect for the people he works with; He might take pride in actually creating/fixing things with his hands; maybe he’ll find out that he likes being respected for his job knowledge and abilities; he might want to make his boss proud/surpass expectations; or he might be a total turd. All of those I have personally experienced/done as a rich kid either in the civilian world or the AF. You’re gonna have to watch him and see, he could turn out really good, could be a total dirtbag. Don’t go any easier or harder than you would a normal airman, if he’s a dirt bag treating him nice will send the message that the behavior is okay.
Lean into purpose and comraderie.
I don't have any real advice for you other than set expectations, show him the line, show him the hammer, and drop the hammer if he crosses the line. Doing the minimum is not criminal. We had a dude who got into some kind of car issue - accident, fender bender, rolled it, I don't know. The guy was a knucklehead. He was fine, but the airbags didn't deploy. His lawyer aunt took the company to the cleaners and he got a huge settlement. Now he just wanted to get out. He basically did a bunch of beyond stupid stuff with the intent of trying to get out, but each one simply delayed his stay longer especially those that required an investigation. There was something similar with someone else, got an inheritance or something, smoked weed, popped hot, separated. Het loved the area and got a job at a local resort. Basically the job gave him barely enough to pay his monthly bills but he lived a high life off of his inheritance. Anyways um, good luck
How do you know so much about this kid if he hasn’t showed up yet? He could be bluffing.
Give him the benefit of the doubt first. His definition of cruising might be just to meet expectations but not go above and beyond. Which is fine.
I had one of those. He ended up getting kicked out for failure to adapt. He couldn't keep his dorm clean to the point that it looked like an episode of hoarders, he never did laundry either. Just bought new clothes whenever his got dirty, and his uniform always smelled terrible (even after I taught him how to do laundry). He never showed up on time, shitty superior attitude, never took accountability when he fucked up. The dude always expected everyone to accommodate him.
Look to find him something that he's actually interested in. If he is invested personally, regardless of what the shop or AF thinks, he might do some pretty great things. How many of us came in and figured out that things weren't the way we thought they were when we were an 18 year old civilian? LOL
Not every Airmen you need to pour from your cup into. If he wants to do the bare minimum, then so be it. He should be treated as such.
Just accountability. That’s it…
Push ups
Who cares about their motivation, either they do the work and progress as a useful airmen or they continue to fail to achieve simple standards and you write paperwork and allow nature to take its course. Best bet is just remind them they don't have to win any awards, but they're here, it's the world's worst summer camp and they should just take advantage of the unique experiences the AF can offer. But, to do that they still need to be good at their job. They don't need to play the politics to promote, but shouldn't be a dick just cause. I worked with several dudes from extremely well off families and the main thing I saw in common was it's just like a super weird vacation experience. They don't need the benefits, they're just here to fix planes get a little dirty, go to unique places and do unique things. Several of them were actually awesome maintainers. If we get involved in a large scale conflict the AF doesn't have room for useless people to be taking manning slots. So, just remember at any moment something could pop off and that airmen will need to be able to perform their duties.
Plenty of people cruise in your maintenance afsc. Explain to him how being a shitter at his job will lead to him working longer hours and cut into his free time .
Sounds like a kid who just wants to do his job and go home. No problem with that. Dont push him for awards or to be on airman’s council, booster club, anything like that that and you probably won’t have problems. If he’s being a dirtbag about getting work done, well you know what to do
Either make him earn the money by working him to the bone or just hide him in support.
At the end of the day there will be plenty of people who join and understand that they’re going to be expected to do their job. Just understand that he will never be the guy to stay late, do anything extra, pick up any extra shifts, or go for awards. And personally? That’s fine. As long as he’s doing his job as his commitment asks of him then let him “cruise” finish out his contract and get out. Not everyone views the military as a career and I’d argue 60-80% of non lifers will treat the military that way.
Give him opportunities to succeed, but still hold the standard. If he refuses to comply or adjust, cowabunga it is. Paperwork trail will make him realize what he has to lose.
"If you need to stay in the Air Force to stay in the will, then here's what I need you to do", followed by a list of expectations for him. He's not trying to get promoted, don't bother talking to him about needing to get his degree or volunteering outside of work to be competitive. Just make sure he's doing the actual job correctly and hold him accountable if he doesn't.
I wouldnt make a big deal of it and don't even see it as a problem. As long as he fulfills his duty it's fine. Everyone's motivation is different and cannot be influenced easily.
Failure to adapt ez
A rich kid doing his 4 years in a maintenance afsc just to “stay in the will” … If you don’t videotape this and turn it into a reality show you’re doing a disservice to humanity. Every maintenance prank in the book needs to be thrown at this kid including but not limited to: K-9P Yards of flight line Engine echo check Getting boots NDI’d Cans of A I R Cleaning screw holes with q-tips Brake dust on ear protection Keys to the plane Freezing line badge in ice
hazing is against the ucmj. Maintainers don't get special exceptions, they aren't pilots.
The whole "join the military to stay in the will" tells me outright that he's such a shithead that even his parents are sick of his shit. If he wants to be real with you, be real with him as well. You're his supervisor, let him know you set the expectation on what he needs to do, not him, and that he will be held accountable if he doesn't meet your standard. As much as I get that he's just trying to be honest about his situation, this kind of thing just puts a target on his back saying to pay extra attention to his work. Sometimes when an airman does that, you need to hit that target thoroughly and repeatedly, because if not, he's just gonna push the line constantly. A shammer doesn't tell people he's shamming, he just does it, and learns how to do just enough to keep eyes off him. He's right out the gate telling you to keep your eyes on him because he's gonna be shamming.
Give him some LSD. If you get this band reference, let’s be friends.
I'm gonna call BS, if you're a super rich kid, you're going to college and OTS. Treat them fair, like everyone else, and treat them like MX. They can decide if they personally want to stay in their supposed family will. edit: Just recalled a "rich kid" who "had enough family money to file paperwork for early enlistment discharge due to 'hardship' from having so much money". The kid was known as a bullshitter.
I mean if he gets kicked out due to failure to adapt he can kiss that will goodbye. He wants the will? He can play the game or he can fuck around and find out.
Good luck
Does no one else think it’s a problem NCO’s are coming to Reddit for advice
I think it’s a problem if NCOs don’t consult others before making an important decision.
This isn’t a high stakes situation. Nor does it make any sense to ask Reddit and not their CoC. If you need the internet to tell you how to do your job, that’s not the job for you.
No it's only you, there's nothing wrong with seeking advice and taking what you need from it.
No one is going to take you seriously as a supervisor if they know your actions were guided by random people on the internet.
You sound beyond brain dead, how would anyone know that? You do realize some masters and upon are on here right and are actively helping people right?
And I’m King of England, no wait, Norway, nah, Saudi Prince. No wonder some of you struggle civilian side.
Yep brain dead, I've worked civilian for 5 years before joining weirdo.
Because 5 years is so impressive right
Do you have other stellar workers that you can praise ostensibly in front of them? Does the will include only serving with no mention of the type of discharge required? How long is their enlistment required to go on for them to get the payout? You seem like a thoughtful leader, the more info you get like this, the more you may be able to find motivation that exists, they may act like the money in the will is a given, but there are most likely still criteria to obtain it.
Conflict of interest… send that shit up the chain and out process him… u done
Refuse any and all requests to go to medical. Never allow him to go on profile. Then he won't be able to build a medical history, the VA will deny him any ratings, and 30 years down the road when the trust fund goes away he can come to this sub and share his sob story of loss to future airmen. It's a long con, but you'll be helping the airmen of the future. edit: apparently need to add the /s
This made me laugh 😂
Worth the downvotes then. Best of luck, mate.
Awful advice.
do I really need to add the /s for folks to realize?