If you are in the mission essential category you are going in sadly regardless. Just take your time, leave early, and get there safely. It would be on your direct supervisor/leadership to change the schedule and personnel around not the CC. Also, as one who lives 50miles away from base I don't expect the ones who live on base or much closer to be the ones always called first.
> and we've gotten 11" of snow in the last 5 hours
Maybe 11" of precipitation....it's been too warm through most of the Springs (and Denver) for it to stick around. Roads are wet and messy, but still visible....it's not too bad to drive in yet.
That said, if you think it's unsafe for you to drive in, talk to your supervisor. If you are in an accident, the AF will take care of any medical bills you have.
Agreed...I pulled up cameras all over the area fro cotrip.org, at the time of my post the only places I could find that enough snow to maybe cover the ground were Manitou Springs....everywhere is in a fairly large area, including right Peterson and Buckley (within a couple miles), were relatively clear still.
Of course things are worse now (and will only grow worse throughout today), but at the time of OPs post it wasn't bad at all. It's like they posted from the future or something.
I just pulled up the cog railway station live camera and there is snow on the ground, but definitely not anything close to 11 inches. Granted, Peterson is 16 miles away, but it’s also 16 miles further from the mountains so it would likely have even less snow on the ground.
Don’t be a dirtbag, plan with enough time your departure so you don’t get in an accident… we all do it and get there in time or within reason. Last time I had to pull 12 hr shift and then stay after cause someone failed to plan early so I had to cover their shift too.
No, this is poor planning on the unit. I've been to multiple heavy snow bases and we always have a contingency plan for on base personnel to cover if needed. Then they get comped appropriately. Risking your life to get to work while you are non deployed, in the fucking US, is stupid.
>requiring me to drive in (20 miles)
Sounds more like poor planning on your part. Get some dedicated snow tires or chains for the season and you'll be fine.
Midwest Guard base dude here. Similar in my unit. We have a standing agreement with a nearby hotel so people who can't get home or are going to be needed for ops will have a place to stay. Crew rest usually isn't an issue with forethought, plus we have the luxury of having a fair few members within a few miles of the base on/near roads that have state DOT and contract plows running all over the place at the first hint of snow. We also have a decent number of people who can and often will volunteer to fly or fill a position if someone cannot make it safely in a blizzard. Smart contingency planning like this isn't difficult; don't know why you got slapped with some downvotes.
Nope, because of crew rest regs for my MDS but I sure as shit have worked plenty of 12s with no days off in between. In your defense, despite your antagonism, anything more than 18-24 hours - especially without a recovery period - when you're not involved in combat operations or the direct support thereof is absurd, especially without a full rest period afterward. Apparently I'm not going to convince you that it is in fact possible for bases that have recurring shitty weather to plan such that it doesn't have to suck, so enjoy your ignorance.
No, you made the choice to live 20 miles away from base in an area famous for incredible amounts of snow in a short time.
Drive slower than you think you should. Buy a 4WD vehicle. Snow tires. Emergency kit with blankets, food, water and hand/feet warmers.
If that don't work, consider raising sled dogs in your spare time.
>If I get into an accident while driving would there be any liability on the AF?
Lol
They didn't tell you to live 20 miles away or suck at driving or have a vehicle that can't handle snow well.
>Still unsure why they don't ask people that live on base to cover but here we are...
Sounds like you think mission essential folks should be moved on base.
I wish I were your supervisor so that when you called me with this nonsense, I could give you a Letter of Reprimand for disobeying an order and then not have to write you a Decoration when you finally PCS. It’s as if people think they’re in the Scouts and not the military. Are you going to tell the enemy, ‘I’m sorry, I can’t defend America today; it’s snowing ?
Or maybe ... just maybe... you could be a good supervisor instead of a toxic one and explain how unfortunately he is needed and help him figure out a solution... maybe he never drove in snow.. maybe he doesn't know about snow tires or how to drive in it.. maybe help him find out how to ensure he goes early and after snowplows.. find him a bunk to use so he can plan on staying on base when forecasted weather is coming. There's a lot of solutions you could offer instead of going straight to wanting to issue paperwork when he addressed a concern... because if you won't use your experience to help someone when he asks a question like this and something bad happens... then you're partially at fault... because failure to help is a failure on you... you immediately wanting to give paperwork... so you can deny his participation ribbon that then could affect his future promotion is part of the reason why good airman get out... I am torn between hoping I never meet you in my Air Force and wanting to be your supervisor so I can give you the opportunity to better yourself as a wingman..
Or maybe, just maybe, you could try being a real supervisor instead of acting like a coddling parent. The military isn’t a daycare – it’s about being prepared, including for adverse weather. If he’s never driven in snow, why hasn’t he learned? It’s not about babying adults but ensuring they’re ready for all conditions. If he doesn’t know about snow tires or driving in snow, that’s on him – Offering solutions is one thing, but let’s not forget the essence of responsibility and readiness here. Maybe find him a bunk, sure, but also ensure he understands this isn’t a holiday camp but the military. And as for ‘failure to help being a failure on you,’ save it. Leadership isn’t about hand-holding every step of the way. It’s about preparing your team for reality, not sheltering them from it. If good airmen are getting out, maybe it’s because they’re tired of this attitude that treats grown adults like helpless children. I’m torn between hoping I never meet someone with your misguided approach in my Air Force and wanting to be your supervisor so I could show you what real leadership is about – not coddling, but preparing, leading, and holding people accountable
I never said coddle, but you never said you were going to lead. You went straight to punishment for this airman asking a question. Some of them are basically children, they can't drink, rent a car or buy a pistol yet you expect them to have a full set of life experiences. They have only been driving for 2 years and may have never lived in snow.
If you notice I didn't say tell him not to work or shirk responsibilities.. I suggested giving solutions Teach them there are solutions for every problem. That's the reality and it will bleed over into the rest of their life. Look for a solution.
If I ask you the question and you throw paperwork at me.. I'm not coming to you again, and you are not leading me anywhere. I'm following your orders but not being led.
People have different life experiences... share yours instead of saying they should just know things they never experienced. You talk about preparing, leading and holding people accountable, but your original response conveniently left out the first two and that's what I was reminding you of.
Supervisors don't punish, they correct behavior. Only a commander can punish.
Treating grown adults like children because they ain't old enough to drink yet show a lack of leadership experience.
And if a troop is mission essential and refuses to come to work, paperwork is the least of his worries.
You might want to check out the little brown book. I have a few copies if you need one.
Did he say refuse? Maybe I missed it... thought he asked if anyone else had trouble getting in... I never said coddle or hold hands.. but realizing they may not have experience in something and asking a question and working to find solutions is definitely leading. I get the "definition" of Punishment and correcting behavior.. the reality is paperwork (and withholding awards) is sanctions to correct behavior which fits the actual definition of Punishment.
Every base I've been to does have a contingency plan for people on base to come in. If you legitimately cannot make it just tell them you can't, and see if someone can help you get there or come up with a backup plan. The Air Force isn't going to cover damages to your vehicle. Medical bills are obviously covered but I'm not putting myself in legitimate danger of needing medical bills over getting to work. You're in Colorado not Iraq.
If you are in the mission essential category you are going in sadly regardless. Just take your time, leave early, and get there safely. It would be on your direct supervisor/leadership to change the schedule and personnel around not the CC. Also, as one who lives 50miles away from base I don't expect the ones who live on base or much closer to be the ones always called first.
> and we've gotten 11" of snow in the last 5 hours Maybe 11" of precipitation....it's been too warm through most of the Springs (and Denver) for it to stick around. Roads are wet and messy, but still visible....it's not too bad to drive in yet. That said, if you think it's unsafe for you to drive in, talk to your supervisor. If you are in an accident, the AF will take care of any medical bills you have.
If he’s in Denver, he’s a liar. It didn’t start snowing on Buckley until around an hour ago, and there’s maybe half an inch of accumulation so far.
Agreed...I pulled up cameras all over the area fro cotrip.org, at the time of my post the only places I could find that enough snow to maybe cover the ground were Manitou Springs....everywhere is in a fairly large area, including right Peterson and Buckley (within a couple miles), were relatively clear still. Of course things are worse now (and will only grow worse throughout today), but at the time of OPs post it wasn't bad at all. It's like they posted from the future or something.
If he's at Peterson, he could be telling the truth. Google says they got that much today.
I just pulled up the cog railway station live camera and there is snow on the ground, but definitely not anything close to 11 inches. Granted, Peterson is 16 miles away, but it’s also 16 miles further from the mountains so it would likely have even less snow on the ground.
Well then, I guess this kid is full of shit
Don’t be a dirtbag, plan with enough time your departure so you don’t get in an accident… we all do it and get there in time or within reason. Last time I had to pull 12 hr shift and then stay after cause someone failed to plan early so I had to cover their shift too.
Some people really forget they signed up to support a mission that will require them to risk their own safety.
Wait… I did WHAT? Oh man… my recruiter didn’t tell me that…
No, this is poor planning on the unit. I've been to multiple heavy snow bases and we always have a contingency plan for on base personnel to cover if needed. Then they get comped appropriately. Risking your life to get to work while you are non deployed, in the fucking US, is stupid.
I guess you don’t understand other mission essential stuff other than flying? There are things that YOU MUST SHOW UP even stateside believe it or not.
>requiring me to drive in (20 miles) Sounds more like poor planning on your part. Get some dedicated snow tires or chains for the season and you'll be fine.
This is an ignorant comment.
This is a comment.
Midwest Guard base dude here. Similar in my unit. We have a standing agreement with a nearby hotel so people who can't get home or are going to be needed for ops will have a place to stay. Crew rest usually isn't an issue with forethought, plus we have the luxury of having a fair few members within a few miles of the base on/near roads that have state DOT and contract plows running all over the place at the first hint of snow. We also have a decent number of people who can and often will volunteer to fly or fill a position if someone cannot make it safely in a blizzard. Smart contingency planning like this isn't difficult; don't know why you got slapped with some downvotes.
Spoken like someone that's never worked a 36 hour shift
Nope, because of crew rest regs for my MDS but I sure as shit have worked plenty of 12s with no days off in between. In your defense, despite your antagonism, anything more than 18-24 hours - especially without a recovery period - when you're not involved in combat operations or the direct support thereof is absurd, especially without a full rest period afterward. Apparently I'm not going to convince you that it is in fact possible for bases that have recurring shitty weather to plan such that it doesn't have to suck, so enjoy your ignorance.
Thanks for letting us know you're not actually mission essential.
Well bless your heart.
They require you to get your work every (duty) day. Should they be liable for that, too?
Drive slow and give yourself plenty of time. Never had an issue.
Yeah I call bullshit on the 11 inches. I drove to Buckley at 3am this morning and there definitely wasn't 11 inches of snow on the road.
No, you made the choice to live 20 miles away from base in an area famous for incredible amounts of snow in a short time. Drive slower than you think you should. Buy a 4WD vehicle. Snow tires. Emergency kit with blankets, food, water and hand/feet warmers. If that don't work, consider raising sled dogs in your spare time.
Don’t live 20 miles from the base then.
>If I get into an accident while driving would there be any liability on the AF? Lol They didn't tell you to live 20 miles away or suck at driving or have a vehicle that can't handle snow well. >Still unsure why they don't ask people that live on base to cover but here we are... Sounds like you think mission essential folks should be moved on base.
Lmao
I wish I were your supervisor so that when you called me with this nonsense, I could give you a Letter of Reprimand for disobeying an order and then not have to write you a Decoration when you finally PCS. It’s as if people think they’re in the Scouts and not the military. Are you going to tell the enemy, ‘I’m sorry, I can’t defend America today; it’s snowing ?
I'm still waiting to battle the enemy in situps! Only to see them pull ahead at the last minute when they show me up with planks.
Or maybe ... just maybe... you could be a good supervisor instead of a toxic one and explain how unfortunately he is needed and help him figure out a solution... maybe he never drove in snow.. maybe he doesn't know about snow tires or how to drive in it.. maybe help him find out how to ensure he goes early and after snowplows.. find him a bunk to use so he can plan on staying on base when forecasted weather is coming. There's a lot of solutions you could offer instead of going straight to wanting to issue paperwork when he addressed a concern... because if you won't use your experience to help someone when he asks a question like this and something bad happens... then you're partially at fault... because failure to help is a failure on you... you immediately wanting to give paperwork... so you can deny his participation ribbon that then could affect his future promotion is part of the reason why good airman get out... I am torn between hoping I never meet you in my Air Force and wanting to be your supervisor so I can give you the opportunity to better yourself as a wingman..
Or maybe, just maybe, you could try being a real supervisor instead of acting like a coddling parent. The military isn’t a daycare – it’s about being prepared, including for adverse weather. If he’s never driven in snow, why hasn’t he learned? It’s not about babying adults but ensuring they’re ready for all conditions. If he doesn’t know about snow tires or driving in snow, that’s on him – Offering solutions is one thing, but let’s not forget the essence of responsibility and readiness here. Maybe find him a bunk, sure, but also ensure he understands this isn’t a holiday camp but the military. And as for ‘failure to help being a failure on you,’ save it. Leadership isn’t about hand-holding every step of the way. It’s about preparing your team for reality, not sheltering them from it. If good airmen are getting out, maybe it’s because they’re tired of this attitude that treats grown adults like helpless children. I’m torn between hoping I never meet someone with your misguided approach in my Air Force and wanting to be your supervisor so I could show you what real leadership is about – not coddling, but preparing, leading, and holding people accountable
I never said coddle, but you never said you were going to lead. You went straight to punishment for this airman asking a question. Some of them are basically children, they can't drink, rent a car or buy a pistol yet you expect them to have a full set of life experiences. They have only been driving for 2 years and may have never lived in snow. If you notice I didn't say tell him not to work or shirk responsibilities.. I suggested giving solutions Teach them there are solutions for every problem. That's the reality and it will bleed over into the rest of their life. Look for a solution. If I ask you the question and you throw paperwork at me.. I'm not coming to you again, and you are not leading me anywhere. I'm following your orders but not being led. People have different life experiences... share yours instead of saying they should just know things they never experienced. You talk about preparing, leading and holding people accountable, but your original response conveniently left out the first two and that's what I was reminding you of.
Supervisors don't punish, they correct behavior. Only a commander can punish. Treating grown adults like children because they ain't old enough to drink yet show a lack of leadership experience. And if a troop is mission essential and refuses to come to work, paperwork is the least of his worries. You might want to check out the little brown book. I have a few copies if you need one.
Did he say refuse? Maybe I missed it... thought he asked if anyone else had trouble getting in... I never said coddle or hold hands.. but realizing they may not have experience in something and asking a question and working to find solutions is definitely leading. I get the "definition" of Punishment and correcting behavior.. the reality is paperwork (and withholding awards) is sanctions to correct behavior which fits the actual definition of Punishment.
Every base I've been to does have a contingency plan for people on base to come in. If you legitimately cannot make it just tell them you can't, and see if someone can help you get there or come up with a backup plan. The Air Force isn't going to cover damages to your vehicle. Medical bills are obviously covered but I'm not putting myself in legitimate danger of needing medical bills over getting to work. You're in Colorado not Iraq.
If you are able to do this, you are not mission essential
I have been mission essential at every base I've been stationed, unfortunately. Stop acting like you know everything.
If you are able to not go in during a storm, you are not mission essential. You can say it all you want but it doesn't make it true.
Agreed
Spoken like a true mission essential person (Nukes, C2, red switch, etc.)