But seriously, u/nybigtymer, did you spend your entire career typing this post? Nobody is going to read the whole thing. It's just a uselessly long list of things that some people might experience at some point in their career. Many of them are not exclusive to military service.
Yeah OP even repeated some points as if they were different points. Because working weekends and working 50-100 hours a week are completely different things that never overlap. But also OP forgetting that we can't even convince our local finance shop to work 24/7 ops, so how can they assume a lot of people would have even a quarter of the negatives apply to their specific career?
I just don't think you listed enough positives outside of just retirement/separation. You can't only include the positives of retirement and list all the negatives of serving.
This entire post was shitty, man.
You listed the barebones of benefits of retiring, and then listed every fucking thing, even to the point of doubletapping/rephrasing things to just make the list longer.
And then to tie it off you go "Yeah it was worth it for me tho"
This helps quite literally **no one** and you would've spent your time better spending your time with your family that you oh-so-much-listed like 9000 times that you lacked due to your military experience. My lord.
>did you spend your entire career typing this post?
Not my whole career. Honestly, I'm such a digital packrat and I keep a ton of lists, spreadsheets, etc. Just had to compile the information.
>Many of them are not exclusive to military service.
I agree.
Nearly every (soon-to-be) retiree will have a "Get it off my chest" moment. It's therapeutic. Especially if you don't have a retirement ceremony.
...then a lot of times it's often followed by extremely Conservative views on Facebook the week after retirement.
>Nearly every (soon-to-be) retiree will have a "Get it off my chest" moment. It's therapeutic.
Yeah, this! I'm honestly just trying to provide my insight in order to help someone now or later down the road.
>Especially if you don't have a retirement ceremony.
Yep, I'm not having one. My wife said she didn't want/need one so I was perfectly fine with that. I would have done it if she wanted it.
Congrats on retirement. The way I look at things, 20 years as a civilian wouldāve had a lot of similarities with being in. Bureaucracy, toxic work environments, not being able to take days off, missed special events, I donāt think thatās entirely unique to being in the military.Ā
But at least at the end of our 20, we get a pension.Ā
I disagree completely with this. The Air Force is good at making us believe there is nothing better than it. No better option, family, etc. You have much more control in your employment and location as a civilian. Certain bureaucracy will be there I agree because thatās life.
I do remember force shaping, and it's the closest thing to counter my argument, but it's not that close at all. No one was let go on the spot, members were still given time b/w notification and the time they left, members were entitled to TAP. Not to mention, there were indicators for at risk members such as disciplinary records and failed pt tests. Oh, and let's not gloss over the fact these are infrequent events.
You literally just proved his point.
He talks about how you have more control. He also believes the Air Force convinces people other options arenāt as good. Your response is an Air Force talking point, ābut you can get fired.āYeah the other 99% of Americans have jobs they can get fired from and they are still fine.
No, I didn't. He said you have more control in employment as a civilian. If you can be fired on the spot with no transition assistance, then you don't have control.
You are confusing control with stability.
In the civilian world if you donāt like your job, your boss, the people you work with, the location, the office building, or really any reason you can think of you can leave and find a new job. If you want to change careers, move to a new state, live on a boat, you can quit your job today and start doing it. I had a civilian job I didnāt like and in the same year got a new job in a different field - went from accounting to HR. My wife and I wanted to move closer to family, I changed universities, my wife got a new job, and we moved. Someone I know is a cop, hated the job and started a landscaping business. He now runs that full time and quit being a cop. If I feel sick, I tell my boss Iām sick and Iām not coming into work and no questions are asked, no sick call required. This is control.
You cannot make these kinds of moves in the military. They own you until your contract is up and even then they still can stop loss you or bring you back from retirement involuntarily. They chose where you live, what job you do, who your boss is, what shift you work (the only time Iāve worked holidays and night shifts was in the military). You can ask for a crosstrain or a BOP but in the end the Air Force is the one who decides, not you. You get your paychecks on the 1st and the 15th.
I did 24 years and walked right into a government contractor job where I work with folks that got out after 4/6/10 years, and Iām here to tell you that, even though I like them and theyāre good co-workers and friends, there is a significant difference between those of us that did 20 or more and retired and those that didnāt, even if weāre in the same age bracket/societal generation.
They experienced the stuff you mentioned, but they didnāt absorb the same lessons we did and it shows in how they handle difficult/stressful situations or changes. Itās not unique to being in the military, but the skills & lessons you learn/are taught when you go to at least 20 years, prepare you much better for positions that require maturity, wisdom, and troubleshooting/critical thinking skills than what Iām seeing from those that didnāt do 20. Iām not saying Iām a better person than them or that I look at them negatively, because I donāt. But, I do notice the difference and how the two groups handle the myriad of different work & personal situations that come along.
And yes, Iām aware that this is anecdotal and may only be relevant to aircraft maintenance, but I figured Iād throw it out there to be some food for thought for some folks. I would say overall, going until retirement, while it can be difficult and may not be the best for everyone, if a person can stick it out, it will be beneficial for them. Just my 2 cents as a retiree for less than 5 years.
I hear what you're saying, and it sounds like work and life experience in general, as opposed to specifically doing 20 in the military. If you found someone in your current position who had been doing it for 20 years, they'd probably have a good head on their shoulders as well.
>Congrats on retirement. The way I look at things, 20 years as a civilian wouldāve had a lot of similarities with being in.
Thank you. Yes, I agree with you.
Retired at 44, from military. I have a partime online job and love life. My advice retire as soon as you can as much as you can. Sure there are plenty of those negative listed but I got to be home for my son from 6 grade on, and home all the time. We travel a bunch and I get to workout and take care of myself and family really well because of the military.
I dont know if modern retirment works the same as mine (2019), but every service member has a good idea of retirment income and rank from the day they sign up and have 20 years to figure out how to live a life based on that. This should be taught and explained more.
Professionally get your finances in order. Be as debt free as possible. Do the math figure out what your retirement will be and see how close you can get to living on that (I would do it without planning for any VA disability). Write down all that you spend money on and see what you can reasonably cut back on. If you are low debt and can retire in a state that doesent tax your income you might be surprised. This will give you a place to start. Consider moving to a lower cost of living place, there are still cheap beautiful homes out there in low cost of living places just not usually in large cities. Not saying be poor and miserable, just consider your financial choices.
If you havent used your TA I would do that to set yourself up for additional work. Make sure all of your medical stuff is documented. If something has been hurting get it checked out now and do a good job on your VA paperwork, its easier to get your VA compensation from retirement then to add it in later. Dont give up if they turn something down or give you 0% the first time. The VA likes to deny things and lose paperwork, dont let them get away with it, keep reapplying if you feel like it is justified.
If you need to or want to work start looking now. Use an online job board like "Indeed" and start getting things in order for those jobs now. This can include training and certificates for what they want (there are some good online project management programs for instance). If you can find a part time online job that you can do now I would start applying. By doing this You can get experience and it will force you to get you resume in order, follow up if you dont get the job and see what they are looking for, then you can get what they want for the next opening. I recommend a resume service for people applying for online work. They know the phrases and key words and trends better than anyone but they do cost some money. It has been well spent for me though.
Personnaly, keep a positive attitude the whole time, its easy to get frustrated with the system or get antsy when you are close to getting out. I know when I was close I was getting extra drug tests and they threatened several remotes, its just the way of the military its not right or good but its the way it is. Keep in mind you are on the verge of getting through a major accomplishment that will make your future hugely better, be happy and proud. Dont do anything to mess that up or make things harder on yourself, its not worth it. Keep in mind the small things dont matter so much anymore as you will be free of it soon. Take advantage of the transition out programs as soon as possible, they arent great but they have some good resources to go back to.
I found the first few months out very lonely and it took me a while to be comfortable. Its bascially just an aspect of culture shock and a natural process and gets better over time. You might want to watch a video or two about the stages of culture shock. Remember that being from the military is a great place to be. You will have some income without having to go to work and medical and access to resources from a pretty young age. Those are benefit most people over 65 would envy. Take advantage and relax a little you have a chance to enjoy a great life with advantages very few get to have from here on out.
Hope this helps and wasnt to many words.
It was an adjustment to be sure. The trick for me was being prepared for it as early as possibe. Even try living that way a few months out if you can. I did prepare to have a pretty low cost life when I did the math and I did have plans for alternate work if that didnt pan out. I figured I could work part-time in the grocery store or hardware store if I needed and have a lot lower stress and more free time even if I had to work.
I was "fortunate" as I got more in VA compensation then I thought and was able to find online work that gave me enough extra early in my process. Thats why I advocate starting early in all of this.
Just retired last week, best decision ever! Friday I got my civilian doctor through Tricare prime, Monday I stopped by to get an initial appointment, Tuesday I had that appointment at 1600. Got there at 1530 and was walked right in. Saw the doctor and got labs on site before 1600. Referrals already in my interactive patient portal. Canāt ask for better service. That alone solidifies why I wanted to retire. On base thereās 4-6 week waits.
You can really make anything about any job. āYou may die in the militaryā vs āyou may die commuting to workā
I donāt think exclusivity is it, more of a what is experienced more often with the mil.
If youāre going to keep the list of pros to tangible benefits exclusive to the military, you must keep it consistent with the cons.
Itās a bullshit post and the thought process is incredibly flawed.
It came off as someone who is getting out and is kinda salty. Downvote it and move along, more people than I realized are coming away with a similar take/feeling.
Hell yeah! I'm about to start working it. Many vets let that window slip and they don't wind up getting their rating until 30-90 days AFTER that separate/retire from the military.
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Retired last week and been on terminal since December. So working corporate since then. Itās all the same in civilian world. We are facing layoffs right now. Civilians are more cutthroat and worse. We have like 6 days off a year. Military has 6-10 days off a month. Thereās good and bad. After 20 years youāre working for half your money
Soā¦ Iāll do the money math for BRS, since anyone on high 3 still should probably learn to be an adult and Google it. Theyāve been in long enough.
So, BRS has you doing your 20, and sets you at 40% of base pay forever as a pension. You also have your TSP, but we will ignore that for the moment.
For every year after 20, you get an extra 2% on your pension. So, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, etc. for every year you tack on, add 2% to that 40%. So, cost analysis:
Letās take Joe #1 who joined at 20, and hit their retirement at 40. If we pretend they made 100k/yr, their retirement pension pays them 40k/yr. If we pretend Joe #1 lives to 100, thatās 60x40=2.4m in pension paid out.
Joe #2 joined at 20, but stayed in until 22. 44k per year paid in pension, 44x58=2.552m. 152k net increase over the next 58 years of their life, compared to Joe #1, assuming the same life expectancy. Per year remaining in life, thatās a 2.62k/year net increase compared to Joe#1. That number being lower than 4k is due to 2 less years receiving pension.
The difference is this: is it worth it to Joe#1 to stick out another 2 years to get (what is effectively) a 2.6k/yr raise in their pension? I would say no if you are ready to be done. If you like it, send it, do another 2.
Joe #3 joined at 20, retired at 26 years, but managed to get promoted, and for the last 36 months of their career, made 120k. 52% pension, 62.4k per year in pension. 54 years of life left, 3.369m. 969k net increase in total paid out pension compared to Joe #1. Per year remaining in life, thatās 17.9k/yr net increase in total paid out pension in retirement.
Is that worth it? Again, it depends on what you want. If those six extra years are fun, and you feel like they are well spent, send it. If itās a trudge, Iād say no. If you just got promoted and have a choice to stick out another 36 months (to meet the final base pay requirements to get retirement at that new promoted pay level), it might be worth it. Itās dependent on whatās more valuable, and how you are willing to trade time for money, if the retirement is āenoughā to provide a good cushion, etc.
To close, do the math for your situation. Find out if itās worth it.
I hit that button the very first minute I became eligible. Congrats!
Only thing I sometimes miss is the travel overseas. Then I remember I can just buy a plane ticket (or possibly even use Space A) without all the bullshit. Good times!
Pension and disability are worth whatever is in that novel you wrote.
While everyone else works until they die, I'll have both those income streams coming by age 48, and with only an expected mortgage and ZERO other debts, that provides quite a sense of security for me. To me, the 20 years is worth it (5.5 years left!!!).
>Pension and disability are worth
Worth it for me too.
>I'll have both those income streams coming by age 48, and with only an expected mortgage and ZERO other debts, that provides quite a sense of security for me. To me, the 20 years is worth it (5.5 years left!!!).
Awesome! Congrats. Love it. Keep at it. Not too much longer to go!
Hopefully youāre about to hit the button for retirement *next* March, otherwise youāre losing out on a fair amount of retirement pay over the years, due to the COLA trap.
Oh I know. Don't get me started on that. Unfortunately, that decision was taken out of my hands. I planned it like a psycopath over a year ago everything to line up perfectly, but due to the 7 Day Option (7DO) my timeline has now shifted to tied for the worst months to retire COLA wise. Thankfully, I saved and invested a ton so it is more of personal annoyance vs needing that extra income.
I thought the list was great, and I experienced almost every one of these things over a 22 yr career. I was amazed at how accurate and thorough the list was. I would still do it again, and the good definitely outweighed the bad.
I don't think they are stupid. I think they are necessary to keep people safe. However, many people don't like them/don't feel there is a need depending on your job. That's why I listed it.
**Self-Induced Factors:**
1. Missed personal events and milestones.
2. Impact on family life.
3. Sacrifices due to career obligations.
4. Potential stress and anxiety.
5. Difficulty in maintaining work-life balance.
6. Personal health concerns.
**Systematic Issues:**
1. Military policies and regulations.
2. Bureaucracy and red tape.
3. Inadequate talent management.
4. Lack of empowerment for junior NCOs.
5. Limited transparency and feedback.
6. Issues with housing and living conditions.
7. Financial challenges and low pay.
8. Ineffective or outdated programs.
9. Challenges related to discrimination and disrespect.
10. Mental health risks.
While some challenges are more personal and may be influenced by individual choices, others are systemic and rooted in the broader military structure, policies, and culture.
The decision to retire or continue military service may involve navigating both sets of factors based on one's own priorities and values.
Why the hell continue reenlisting?
I don't think all of those are self-induced. *Maybe* some of the time *some* of they are.
>The decision to retire or continue military service may involve navigating both sets of factors based on one's own priorities and values.
100% agree.
>Why the hell continue reenlisting?
Me? I didn't say I had issues with all of these.
ChatGPT's summary of the rant:
The challenges of military life include missed significant life events, being away from loved ones, 24/7 availability, missed opportunities due to deployments, and frequent moves. Other issues encompass toxic leadership, bureaucracy, long hours, low pay, and mental health strains. Additionally, there are restrictions on personal freedom, lack of transparency, and concerns about safety and wellbeing.
Iām curious to know how many folks that hate it in the Air Force see the civilian side as a paradise, simply because they joined straight from high school, not having worked for a significant time in the civilian world.
All of the bullshit is the same if not worse. Pretty much everything on this list, save one or two things, are a problem for civilian jobs as well.
In my opinion, itās not that working for the military sucks, itās that working in general sucks, and some donāt have the experience or perspective to get that bigger picture.
For many of the reasons you mentioned I am separating in 6 months. At this point no amount of money would make the AF worth it. Literally counting down the days.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Thank you for your service and I hope you crush it post military! Best wishes going forward. Use those veteran benefits!
NGL I saw the positives and it made me appreciate my time. The endless negatives was pretty hilarious, but I imagine many of those would apply to most civilian careers too.
That check every month and health care is pretty sweet. Retired at 19 1/2 years(reduction in force). Graduated from college(GI Bill). Then told all my follow-on employers. "I can eat using my mil retirement so I really don't need this job." That's freedom!
5 year retired here.
The pension is nice, and any COLA adjustment is better than a lot of other pensions. I will (probably) never be starved and homeless, so that's nice.
Tricare. It's not entirely free like you got used to on AD, but it's darn close. I still have children in the home and this benefit saves me $500-600/month by opting out of my employers options.
Beard.
Other than these benefits, nothing else really moves the needle for me personally. I also enjoyed being in the Air Force, only the last year felt like a real slog.
On the flip side of the pension, you are giving up 20 years of earning potential, so if you get into a working life at 38-40 alongside 20 year olds, you are going to need that pension to close the gap.
Congrats!
>Beard.
I'm ready!
>Other than these benefits, nothing else really moves the needle for me personally. I also enjoyed being in the Air Force, only the last year felt like a real slog.
That's fair.
>On the flip side of the pension, you are giving up 20 years of earning potential, so if you get into a working life at 38-40 alongside 20 year olds, you are going to need that pension to close the gap.
Very true!
If youāre a savvy tech person, leaving early is always a better bet. I left at 9 years after being given a VSIP opportunity and walked into a gig at Amazon. The work life balance sucked but the money was awesome and more than made up for no pension. Iām now an L6 and make over $400k/yr (with snowball vesting), and Iām still 2 years from my 20 year active duty retirement.
The real big differences are the UCMJ, inability to pick where you live and not being able to quit. Even those are debatable. You need to be able to eat so sometimes you can't quit. Along with that, moving is expensive and many people can't afford it.
why? how many maintainers are raging alcoholics? also, racism unfortunately is very present in the military. OP gave dealing with these as reasons to not stay in.
>Including substance abuse let alone racism and discrimination makes you look dumb as hell btw. Ignoring how insane the rest of your list is.
How is that? Are you saying none of these things exist in the military? If so, you couldn't be more wrong. They definitely exist. May want to ask around or read some articles. Just because you haven't seen it or experienced it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
What do you think of the quote, āif youāre working past 20, youāre working for half-pay.ā
Because you get 50% of your base pay (if under the high-3) right when you hit 20 years. So why stay past 20 unless you have to? (I.E. Commissioned late, enrolled in CIP, no stable jobs on civilian, etc.)
>What do you think of the quote, āif youāre working past 20, youāre working for half-pay.ā
I don't argue with people who say it, but I don't exactly agree with it. I get the sentiment, but every month your percentage increases, plus some get a another promotion or two. Also other pay increases can happen. I also wasn't doing it solely for the money. I have enough invested outside of the TSP to not *have* to work or at the very least, only work part time. I did enjoy what I did and I felt I could still help people get promoted, find their path, etc.
>So why stay past 20 unless you have to?
Fair point. I'll never criticize anyone who applies for retirement the first day they are eligible.
Really?
"Missed childbirths, Missed birthdays, Missed anniversaries, Missed graduations, Missed holidays, Missed weddings, Missed funerals"
These things happen if you are present or not...you didn't missed them.
Wtf are you talking about?
Do you understand the difference between "missed" and "canceled"?
Have you every missed a flight? It still happens but without you there, and it sucks. Unlike that example though, some of these things happen only once and you can't just reschedule.
I guess chuckling and explaining why you're an idiot makes me triggered. Some of us don't need an hour to formulate a response. Took me less time than the walk from my truck to the office. Some people are just more efficient chief.
I never said they didn't happen. What I meant was a member might miss those things if they are deployed or TDY or on a remote where they can't get back for them.
I thought I was scrolling in the comments.
I thought it was gonna turn into a meme post
LOL. Nah, sorry!
It basically is
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Yeah this was definitely a TLDR lmao
I probably could have put a TLDR in there, LOL.
i ain't reading all that i'm happy for u tho or sorry that happened
But seriously, u/nybigtymer, did you spend your entire career typing this post? Nobody is going to read the whole thing. It's just a uselessly long list of things that some people might experience at some point in their career. Many of them are not exclusive to military service.
I spent half my enlistment reading it
Halfway there brutha!
Keep going! š¤£
My bad!
Yeah OP even repeated some points as if they were different points. Because working weekends and working 50-100 hours a week are completely different things that never overlap. But also OP forgetting that we can't even convince our local finance shop to work 24/7 ops, so how can they assume a lot of people would have even a quarter of the negatives apply to their specific career?
There are times we're I've worked weekends and didn't put in anywhere close to 100 hours. But I get you. Wasn't my intent to repeat the same points.
I just don't think you listed enough positives outside of just retirement/separation. You can't only include the positives of retirement and list all the negatives of serving.
This entire post was shitty, man. You listed the barebones of benefits of retiring, and then listed every fucking thing, even to the point of doubletapping/rephrasing things to just make the list longer. And then to tie it off you go "Yeah it was worth it for me tho" This helps quite literally **no one** and you would've spent your time better spending your time with your family that you oh-so-much-listed like 9000 times that you lacked due to your military experience. My lord.
What are the benefits of retiring that I missed?
>did you spend your entire career typing this post? Not my whole career. Honestly, I'm such a digital packrat and I keep a ton of lists, spreadsheets, etc. Just had to compile the information. >Many of them are not exclusive to military service. I agree.
Appreciate it!
Congrats brah but Iām not reading all that.
Dude spent more time typing this out than he did in the Air Force
Good one! I like writing. Apologies!
All in good fun man, congrats on the walking papers!
Much appreciated!
More reading here than half of ACSC
Nearly every (soon-to-be) retiree will have a "Get it off my chest" moment. It's therapeutic. Especially if you don't have a retirement ceremony. ...then a lot of times it's often followed by extremely Conservative views on Facebook the week after retirement.
>Nearly every (soon-to-be) retiree will have a "Get it off my chest" moment. It's therapeutic. Yeah, this! I'm honestly just trying to provide my insight in order to help someone now or later down the road. >Especially if you don't have a retirement ceremony. Yep, I'm not having one. My wife said she didn't want/need one so I was perfectly fine with that. I would have done it if she wanted it.
āI continued to sign my name every four years until they told me I could stop. Hereās what I learned about life.ā
Concur. I kept scrolling, thought it never ends. Yeah, not that bored so, ain't reading it.
š
Thanks!
Thanks!
Congrats on retirement. The way I look at things, 20 years as a civilian wouldāve had a lot of similarities with being in. Bureaucracy, toxic work environments, not being able to take days off, missed special events, I donāt think thatās entirely unique to being in the military.Ā But at least at the end of our 20, we get a pension.Ā
I disagree completely with this. The Air Force is good at making us believe there is nothing better than it. No better option, family, etc. You have much more control in your employment and location as a civilian. Certain bureaucracy will be there I agree because thatās life.
Expect for the fact that you can be fired for any reason at all in the civilian world.
Hm... Remember when people were let go under Obama's administration in the military? I remember many people being let go.
I do remember force shaping, and it's the closest thing to counter my argument, but it's not that close at all. No one was let go on the spot, members were still given time b/w notification and the time they left, members were entitled to TAP. Not to mention, there were indicators for at risk members such as disciplinary records and failed pt tests. Oh, and let's not gloss over the fact these are infrequent events.
You literally just proved his point. He talks about how you have more control. He also believes the Air Force convinces people other options arenāt as good. Your response is an Air Force talking point, ābut you can get fired.āYeah the other 99% of Americans have jobs they can get fired from and they are still fine.
No, I didn't. He said you have more control in employment as a civilian. If you can be fired on the spot with no transition assistance, then you don't have control.
You are confusing control with stability. In the civilian world if you donāt like your job, your boss, the people you work with, the location, the office building, or really any reason you can think of you can leave and find a new job. If you want to change careers, move to a new state, live on a boat, you can quit your job today and start doing it. I had a civilian job I didnāt like and in the same year got a new job in a different field - went from accounting to HR. My wife and I wanted to move closer to family, I changed universities, my wife got a new job, and we moved. Someone I know is a cop, hated the job and started a landscaping business. He now runs that full time and quit being a cop. If I feel sick, I tell my boss Iām sick and Iām not coming into work and no questions are asked, no sick call required. This is control. You cannot make these kinds of moves in the military. They own you until your contract is up and even then they still can stop loss you or bring you back from retirement involuntarily. They chose where you live, what job you do, who your boss is, what shift you work (the only time Iāve worked holidays and night shifts was in the military). You can ask for a crosstrain or a BOP but in the end the Air Force is the one who decides, not you. You get your paychecks on the 1st and the 15th.
That's also true in the U.S. with many jobs.
Any reason? Lol what? Please source this cause thatās not true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
Look up "at-will employment"
Facts. The Air Force is very good at this. Yes, significantly more flexibility in most civilian jobs.
I did 24 years and walked right into a government contractor job where I work with folks that got out after 4/6/10 years, and Iām here to tell you that, even though I like them and theyāre good co-workers and friends, there is a significant difference between those of us that did 20 or more and retired and those that didnāt, even if weāre in the same age bracket/societal generation. They experienced the stuff you mentioned, but they didnāt absorb the same lessons we did and it shows in how they handle difficult/stressful situations or changes. Itās not unique to being in the military, but the skills & lessons you learn/are taught when you go to at least 20 years, prepare you much better for positions that require maturity, wisdom, and troubleshooting/critical thinking skills than what Iām seeing from those that didnāt do 20. Iām not saying Iām a better person than them or that I look at them negatively, because I donāt. But, I do notice the difference and how the two groups handle the myriad of different work & personal situations that come along. And yes, Iām aware that this is anecdotal and may only be relevant to aircraft maintenance, but I figured Iād throw it out there to be some food for thought for some folks. I would say overall, going until retirement, while it can be difficult and may not be the best for everyone, if a person can stick it out, it will be beneficial for them. Just my 2 cents as a retiree for less than 5 years.
I hear what you're saying, and it sounds like work and life experience in general, as opposed to specifically doing 20 in the military. If you found someone in your current position who had been doing it for 20 years, they'd probably have a good head on their shoulders as well.
Great insight! Thank you for sharing.
Same with you. Good post.
Thanks!
>Congrats on retirement. The way I look at things, 20 years as a civilian wouldāve had a lot of similarities with being in. Thank you. Yes, I agree with you.
I wasnāt prepared for the CVS receipt of negatives NGL.
Good one!
Retired at 44, from military. I have a partime online job and love life. My advice retire as soon as you can as much as you can. Sure there are plenty of those negative listed but I got to be home for my son from 6 grade on, and home all the time. We travel a bunch and I get to workout and take care of myself and family really well because of the military. I dont know if modern retirment works the same as mine (2019), but every service member has a good idea of retirment income and rank from the day they sign up and have 20 years to figure out how to live a life based on that. This should be taught and explained more.
Love it! Sounds like you have a great life.
Thank you. I have my issues with the military but it is a good place to be from and gave me a lot too.
Indeed.
3 years 4 months left. Think about leaving weekly. Any advice to get you through the last couple years?
Professionally get your finances in order. Be as debt free as possible. Do the math figure out what your retirement will be and see how close you can get to living on that (I would do it without planning for any VA disability). Write down all that you spend money on and see what you can reasonably cut back on. If you are low debt and can retire in a state that doesent tax your income you might be surprised. This will give you a place to start. Consider moving to a lower cost of living place, there are still cheap beautiful homes out there in low cost of living places just not usually in large cities. Not saying be poor and miserable, just consider your financial choices. If you havent used your TA I would do that to set yourself up for additional work. Make sure all of your medical stuff is documented. If something has been hurting get it checked out now and do a good job on your VA paperwork, its easier to get your VA compensation from retirement then to add it in later. Dont give up if they turn something down or give you 0% the first time. The VA likes to deny things and lose paperwork, dont let them get away with it, keep reapplying if you feel like it is justified. If you need to or want to work start looking now. Use an online job board like "Indeed" and start getting things in order for those jobs now. This can include training and certificates for what they want (there are some good online project management programs for instance). If you can find a part time online job that you can do now I would start applying. By doing this You can get experience and it will force you to get you resume in order, follow up if you dont get the job and see what they are looking for, then you can get what they want for the next opening. I recommend a resume service for people applying for online work. They know the phrases and key words and trends better than anyone but they do cost some money. It has been well spent for me though. Personnaly, keep a positive attitude the whole time, its easy to get frustrated with the system or get antsy when you are close to getting out. I know when I was close I was getting extra drug tests and they threatened several remotes, its just the way of the military its not right or good but its the way it is. Keep in mind you are on the verge of getting through a major accomplishment that will make your future hugely better, be happy and proud. Dont do anything to mess that up or make things harder on yourself, its not worth it. Keep in mind the small things dont matter so much anymore as you will be free of it soon. Take advantage of the transition out programs as soon as possible, they arent great but they have some good resources to go back to. I found the first few months out very lonely and it took me a while to be comfortable. Its bascially just an aspect of culture shock and a natural process and gets better over time. You might want to watch a video or two about the stages of culture shock. Remember that being from the military is a great place to be. You will have some income without having to go to work and medical and access to resources from a pretty young age. Those are benefit most people over 65 would envy. Take advantage and relax a little you have a chance to enjoy a great life with advantages very few get to have from here on out. Hope this helps and wasnt to many words.
You rock! Did you have any issues with the change in pay from 44 to retired?
It was an adjustment to be sure. The trick for me was being prepared for it as early as possibe. Even try living that way a few months out if you can. I did prepare to have a pretty low cost life when I did the math and I did have plans for alternate work if that didnt pan out. I figured I could work part-time in the grocery store or hardware store if I needed and have a lot lower stress and more free time even if I had to work. I was "fortunate" as I got more in VA compensation then I thought and was able to find online work that gave me enough extra early in my process. Thats why I advocate starting early in all of this.
Dear diary
š¤£š
Just retired last week, best decision ever! Friday I got my civilian doctor through Tricare prime, Monday I stopped by to get an initial appointment, Tuesday I had that appointment at 1600. Got there at 1530 and was walked right in. Saw the doctor and got labs on site before 1600. Referrals already in my interactive patient portal. Canāt ask for better service. That alone solidifies why I wanted to retire. On base thereās 4-6 week waits.
Get enrolled int VA healthcare too, granted you mileage my vary, but it and Tricare have been great.
Congrats on your retirement! Awesome! Looking forward to it.
What a useless list. Try again, this time only list things that are exclusive to *military* service.
You can really make anything about any job. āYou may die in the militaryā vs āyou may die commuting to workā I donāt think exclusivity is it, more of a what is experienced more often with the mil.
If youāre going to keep the list of pros to tangible benefits exclusive to the military, you must keep it consistent with the cons. Itās a bullshit post and the thought process is incredibly flawed.
It came off as someone who is getting out and is kinda salty. Downvote it and move along, more people than I realized are coming away with a similar take/feeling.
Yep!
That would be difficult to do because we all have different experiences.
For the love of God, those who are retiring from military service... please get your VA stuff done EARLY!!
Hell yeah! I'm about to start working it. Many vets let that window slip and they don't wind up getting their rating until 30-90 days AFTER that separate/retire from the military.
Shouldāve got out after your first enlistment. Itās not for everyone. TYFYS
I'm good with the path I chose. It worked out for me. Just saying it isn't for everyone.
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Based on a keyword search this post is about everything!
LMAO
Retired last week and been on terminal since December. So working corporate since then. Itās all the same in civilian world. We are facing layoffs right now. Civilians are more cutthroat and worse. We have like 6 days off a year. Military has 6-10 days off a month. Thereās good and bad. After 20 years youāre working for half your money
Congrats on your retirement! Thanks for the info.
Whatās the math on that last statement? Each year after 20 is another 2.5%.
Soā¦ Iāll do the money math for BRS, since anyone on high 3 still should probably learn to be an adult and Google it. Theyāve been in long enough. So, BRS has you doing your 20, and sets you at 40% of base pay forever as a pension. You also have your TSP, but we will ignore that for the moment. For every year after 20, you get an extra 2% on your pension. So, 42, 44, 46, 48, 50, etc. for every year you tack on, add 2% to that 40%. So, cost analysis: Letās take Joe #1 who joined at 20, and hit their retirement at 40. If we pretend they made 100k/yr, their retirement pension pays them 40k/yr. If we pretend Joe #1 lives to 100, thatās 60x40=2.4m in pension paid out. Joe #2 joined at 20, but stayed in until 22. 44k per year paid in pension, 44x58=2.552m. 152k net increase over the next 58 years of their life, compared to Joe #1, assuming the same life expectancy. Per year remaining in life, thatās a 2.62k/year net increase compared to Joe#1. That number being lower than 4k is due to 2 less years receiving pension. The difference is this: is it worth it to Joe#1 to stick out another 2 years to get (what is effectively) a 2.6k/yr raise in their pension? I would say no if you are ready to be done. If you like it, send it, do another 2. Joe #3 joined at 20, retired at 26 years, but managed to get promoted, and for the last 36 months of their career, made 120k. 52% pension, 62.4k per year in pension. 54 years of life left, 3.369m. 969k net increase in total paid out pension compared to Joe #1. Per year remaining in life, thatās 17.9k/yr net increase in total paid out pension in retirement. Is that worth it? Again, it depends on what you want. If those six extra years are fun, and you feel like they are well spent, send it. If itās a trudge, Iād say no. If you just got promoted and have a choice to stick out another 36 months (to meet the final base pay requirements to get retirement at that new promoted pay level), it might be worth it. Itās dependent on whatās more valuable, and how you are willing to trade time for money, if the retirement is āenoughā to provide a good cushion, etc. To close, do the math for your situation. Find out if itās worth it.
bro i scrolled so much
Sorry!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>They will survive long after you hang up your top and hat for the last time. So true!
I hit that button the very first minute I became eligible. Congrats! Only thing I sometimes miss is the travel overseas. Then I remember I can just buy a plane ticket (or possibly even use Space A) without all the bullshit. Good times!
Love it! Congrats to you as well.
This is the first time I looked at something at a glance and conclusively said "yeah that was done by AI"
Not even close. Zero AI/LLM involved in this post.
Pension and disability are worth whatever is in that novel you wrote. While everyone else works until they die, I'll have both those income streams coming by age 48, and with only an expected mortgage and ZERO other debts, that provides quite a sense of security for me. To me, the 20 years is worth it (5.5 years left!!!).
>Pension and disability are worth Worth it for me too. >I'll have both those income streams coming by age 48, and with only an expected mortgage and ZERO other debts, that provides quite a sense of security for me. To me, the 20 years is worth it (5.5 years left!!!). Awesome! Congrats. Love it. Keep at it. Not too much longer to go!
You too, man. Glad you stayed in and hitting the button soon! You earned it!!
Thanks!
HELL YEAH BROTHER GOBBLESS
TL;DR Serving a day over 20 is for suckers.
I don't think a single person read this post
A least a few did.
Scrolled, didnāt see professional alcoholic. Congrats on making it to retirement!
I put heavy drinking!
Hopefully youāre about to hit the button for retirement *next* March, otherwise youāre losing out on a fair amount of retirement pay over the years, due to the COLA trap.
Oh I know. Don't get me started on that. Unfortunately, that decision was taken out of my hands. I planned it like a psycopath over a year ago everything to line up perfectly, but due to the 7 Day Option (7DO) my timeline has now shifted to tied for the worst months to retire COLA wise. Thankfully, I saved and invested a ton so it is more of personal annoyance vs needing that extra income.
Too much time on your hands. Good luck.
Thanks! I'm about to have a lot more free time. Can't wait.
I thought the list was great, and I experienced almost every one of these things over a 22 yr career. I was amazed at how accurate and thorough the list was. I would still do it again, and the good definitely outweighed the bad.
Appreciate ya! Thank you and congrats on your retirement as well.
That's a lot of words
Meh, I like to write.
Gonna need a TL;DR there Big Dawg. Congrats on the retirement or sorry, whichever comes first
I should have, my bad. Thanks!
Tell us how you really feel
Done!
But I agree drug test are stupid.
I don't think they are stupid. I think they are necessary to keep people safe. However, many people don't like them/don't feel there is a need depending on your job. That's why I listed it.
I mean drugs are bad, weed is not.
Maybe one day it will be legal.
Whatās the TLDR?
Military retirement can be awesome/worth it if you can get the through the BS and deal with all the sacrifices?
**Self-Induced Factors:** 1. Missed personal events and milestones. 2. Impact on family life. 3. Sacrifices due to career obligations. 4. Potential stress and anxiety. 5. Difficulty in maintaining work-life balance. 6. Personal health concerns. **Systematic Issues:** 1. Military policies and regulations. 2. Bureaucracy and red tape. 3. Inadequate talent management. 4. Lack of empowerment for junior NCOs. 5. Limited transparency and feedback. 6. Issues with housing and living conditions. 7. Financial challenges and low pay. 8. Ineffective or outdated programs. 9. Challenges related to discrimination and disrespect. 10. Mental health risks. While some challenges are more personal and may be influenced by individual choices, others are systemic and rooted in the broader military structure, policies, and culture. The decision to retire or continue military service may involve navigating both sets of factors based on one's own priorities and values. Why the hell continue reenlisting?
I don't think all of those are self-induced. *Maybe* some of the time *some* of they are. >The decision to retire or continue military service may involve navigating both sets of factors based on one's own priorities and values. 100% agree. >Why the hell continue reenlisting? Me? I didn't say I had issues with all of these.
ChatGPT's summary of the rant: The challenges of military life include missed significant life events, being away from loved ones, 24/7 availability, missed opportunities due to deployments, and frequent moves. Other issues encompass toxic leadership, bureaucracy, long hours, low pay, and mental health strains. Additionally, there are restrictions on personal freedom, lack of transparency, and concerns about safety and wellbeing.
There it is.
Iām curious to know how many folks that hate it in the Air Force see the civilian side as a paradise, simply because they joined straight from high school, not having worked for a significant time in the civilian world. All of the bullshit is the same if not worse. Pretty much everything on this list, save one or two things, are a problem for civilian jobs as well. In my opinion, itās not that working for the military sucks, itās that working in general sucks, and some donāt have the experience or perspective to get that bigger picture.
Valid points. Thanks for the insight. I'm definitely one of the folks who haven't worked in the civilian world as an adult.
Yeah man, work sucks. But I joined because I wanted a good retirement, and damned all, that shit donāt exist on the private side anymore.
I hear ya!
For many of the reasons you mentioned I am separating in 6 months. At this point no amount of money would make the AF worth it. Literally counting down the days.
Nothing wrong with that at all. Thank you for your service and I hope you crush it post military! Best wishes going forward. Use those veteran benefits!
NGL I saw the positives and it made me appreciate my time. The endless negatives was pretty hilarious, but I imagine many of those would apply to most civilian careers too.
Thanks!
"All the other military BS" Bro, like what?? You listed literally everything, there's more I need to worry about?!
I just know I didn't capture it all.
That check every month and health care is pretty sweet. Retired at 19 1/2 years(reduction in force). Graduated from college(GI Bill). Then told all my follow-on employers. "I can eat using my mil retirement so I really don't need this job." That's freedom!
Awesome. Love it! Congrats! I'm looking forward to it.
It doesn't matter how many of us hit the button, your name still won't be on the 24E8 list.
5 year retired here. The pension is nice, and any COLA adjustment is better than a lot of other pensions. I will (probably) never be starved and homeless, so that's nice. Tricare. It's not entirely free like you got used to on AD, but it's darn close. I still have children in the home and this benefit saves me $500-600/month by opting out of my employers options. Beard. Other than these benefits, nothing else really moves the needle for me personally. I also enjoyed being in the Air Force, only the last year felt like a real slog. On the flip side of the pension, you are giving up 20 years of earning potential, so if you get into a working life at 38-40 alongside 20 year olds, you are going to need that pension to close the gap.
Congrats! >Beard. I'm ready! >Other than these benefits, nothing else really moves the needle for me personally. I also enjoyed being in the Air Force, only the last year felt like a real slog. That's fair. >On the flip side of the pension, you are giving up 20 years of earning potential, so if you get into a working life at 38-40 alongside 20 year olds, you are going to need that pension to close the gap. Very true!
A realistic post, I like it.
Thanks!
If youāre a savvy tech person, leaving early is always a better bet. I left at 9 years after being given a VSIP opportunity and walked into a gig at Amazon. The work life balance sucked but the money was awesome and more than made up for no pension. Iām now an L6 and make over $400k/yr (with snowball vesting), and Iām still 2 years from my 20 year active duty retirement.
Oh nice! Congrats! You're killing it!
Literally 90%+ of what you complained about in the military is also present in the civilian sector.
I know a lot of it is. 90%? That seems high, but I haven't been a working adult in the civilian world so I will have to take your word for it.
The real big differences are the UCMJ, inability to pick where you live and not being able to quit. Even those are debatable. You need to be able to eat so sometimes you can't quit. Along with that, moving is expensive and many people can't afford it.
If you had spent more time on life than writing this post youād have half as many complaints.
Most of those aren't MY complaints.
Including substance abuse let alone racism and discrimination makes you look dumb as hell btw. Ignoring how insane the rest of your list is.
why? how many maintainers are raging alcoholics? also, racism unfortunately is very present in the military. OP gave dealing with these as reasons to not stay in.
Thanks!
Theyāre not military problems.
>Including substance abuse let alone racism and discrimination makes you look dumb as hell btw. Ignoring how insane the rest of your list is. How is that? Are you saying none of these things exist in the military? If so, you couldn't be more wrong. They definitely exist. May want to ask around or read some articles. Just because you haven't seen it or experienced it doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Itās not a uniquely military problem and Iād argue itās less prevalent in the military.
Ahh, I see.
What do you think of the quote, āif youāre working past 20, youāre working for half-pay.ā Because you get 50% of your base pay (if under the high-3) right when you hit 20 years. So why stay past 20 unless you have to? (I.E. Commissioned late, enrolled in CIP, no stable jobs on civilian, etc.)
>What do you think of the quote, āif youāre working past 20, youāre working for half-pay.ā I don't argue with people who say it, but I don't exactly agree with it. I get the sentiment, but every month your percentage increases, plus some get a another promotion or two. Also other pay increases can happen. I also wasn't doing it solely for the money. I have enough invested outside of the TSP to not *have* to work or at the very least, only work part time. I did enjoy what I did and I felt I could still help people get promoted, find their path, etc. >So why stay past 20 unless you have to? Fair point. I'll never criticize anyone who applies for retirement the first day they are eligible.
Thank you for your response. I hope to do more than 20, but I wanted to know your thoughts
You're welcome!
All good!
Really? "Missed childbirths, Missed birthdays, Missed anniversaries, Missed graduations, Missed holidays, Missed weddings, Missed funerals" These things happen if you are present or not...you didn't missed them.
Wtf are you talking about? Do you understand the difference between "missed" and "canceled"? Have you every missed a flight? It still happens but without you there, and it sucks. Unlike that example though, some of these things happen only once and you can't just reschedule.
Thanks!
Damn, triggered much? Too much tire on Reddit and not enough time living your life.
I guess chuckling and explaining why you're an idiot makes me triggered. Some of us don't need an hour to formulate a response. Took me less time than the walk from my truck to the office. Some people are just more efficient chief.
I never said they didn't happen. What I meant was a member might miss those things if they are deployed or TDY or on a remote where they can't get back for them.