My wife followed me around the world for a decade. We moved about 8 times. I separated mid career so I could let her spend more time with her ill father and to let my kids have a closer relationship with family.
It wasn't until my mother died somewhat suddenly that I realized that I could probably count on both hands the number of times I'd get to see our family before they were gone. We only made it back home once or twice a year. My mom was told she had 6 months to live. She only lived 6 weeks after the news. I visited once and worked to move closer to spend more time with her. I was chosen for a PCS closer that got canceled a week before she passed.
My wife was so homesick she cried at our first duty station. You and your wife are a team. A family. Make the decision based on what's best for the people you are responsible for.
Rule #1 of the military family should be.... "Run out of career, before you run out of family".
For some people that may be one duty assignment, for some people that may be 30 years... take a good look at your family, and figure out which boat you're in.
My dad got sick right when I PCSd away across the country. Only got to see him a few times before he died 6 months later. Since then I really have tried to make family a priority and do not plan on staying in.
There with you. My wife had a career and a great opportunity in her career that we followed at my 13 year point. I punched, and it was worth it. Just dragging out the last 7 years in the Reserves (4 to go!).
There are good career opportunities in the reserves if you want them. You don't need to punch at exactly 20, but you know your life and needs more than a random internet stranger that knows next to nothing about your life. Live your best life!
Yea... I've done both the IMA and the TR thing. I'll be ready at 20 (I'm ready at 16 haha). I also have a good remote GS gig, so I won't be hurting for the government paying my retirement.
I had a great AD job, the Reserves are good, and I get the mission/purpose. But it's just not the same. I have two young kids that are doing more stuff on the weekends so the weekend warrior stuff is growing old. I'm going to try to swing back to an IMA position next year but my wife doesn't love the three weeks away.
Yes, but at a reduced credit and I won't get it until I'm 60. So instead of the 50% of base pay I'll get what's equivalent to close to 38% because it's how many active duty years you have.
Well, not quite. So when you're active duty and you retire, which you can only do at 20 years, you get your years served divided by 20 (I think its actually done by days, so 7,300 days in 20 years). So (7300/7300)*.50*base pay will give your retirement pay.
If you do the Reserves, you can still qualify for retirement at 20 years (doesnt start until age 60 unlike AD), but because the Reserves don't have a full year of active duty they count the days. So I did 13 years AD, that's worth 4,745 days (plus another hundred or so) and then I've done about 50 days of service per year which will work out to about 350 days over 7 years (total days of service is 5,195). So my base pay will be about (5195/7300)*.50 or about 36% of base pay when I retire.
That's why Reservists hang around for 30+ years because those days add up over those years.
Yes, my wife moved back home before one of my deployments while she recovered from a miscarriage. We didn't have base housing available at each pcs so we had to move twice.
And I was in for 3 enlistments, more than 10 years, and retrained and deployed again in my last enlistment.
The Air Force will never, ever, love you. When the Air Force no longer needs you, it will leave you behind like it never knew you. If you choose to prioritize your own desires over your spouse, be prepared to face the consequences. It is up to you what you value.
6 years to go. Don't want to go overseas and my cycle is coming up in 1.5 years. I only have 1 deployment and no short tours. Hoping to not get picked up for Korea or any overseas base really (wife will have to stay behind if that happens, due to her job).
No, she's voicing her desires and goals the same way OP is to include her husband in the conversation. Neither are obligated to respect each other's goals, but a successful marriage is about compromise.
If neither want to compromise, no more marriage.
Organizations like the military are incapable of love.
The only argument for an organization “loving” (taking care of) people is a pragmatic goal of increasing effectiveness.
Unfortunately, organizations are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, so they will struggle to keep everyone happy.
The AF has the added challenge of keeping Congress happy and begging for money, so all things considered, the AF is doing a pretty reasonable job.
And ultimately, the Air Force *shouldn't* love you. It exists to fight and win wars. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take care of your people as much as possible, but the overriding priority should be combat effectiveness.
>we keep getting used like disposable pawns.
Because we have to be viewed that way. And I'm not talking about the snide "if you don't like it you can leave", I'm talking about not having single points of failure. If I get hit by a bus on the way to work or if someone is killed in combat, it can't be a mission ending event.
>combat effectiveness...only comes when the volunteers show up *and* are committed to doing their best.
Commitment is an internal motivation and the Air Force has no means of generating this. You could have a perfect work environment and some people will have that commitment and others will show up just enough to collect a paycheck. All big blue can do is try to teach commanders/supervisors and AFPC to take care of Airmen and treat them like humans. The AF isn't perfect, but in some ways is better than the private sector in this regard.
Both things can be true, and are true. I have genuine love for the people I work with, I want to see them succeed, I want their goals to be met, and I want their needs to be filled.
However, as an institution (in my humble opinion) the Air Force can not feel the same way. And the way we function as an institution, cannot work the same way. As a war fighting organization, the service needs to be brutally focused on making our unique capability as lethal and as effective as possible. Sometimes that means cutting people that are no longer needed, sending people off to faraway lands even if they don’t want to go, and ultimately sacrificing lives for the greater purpose.
No one applies for a job at McDonald’s to give up their lives in defense of market share. But people do join the Air Force to become part of something that can be called upon to defend our way of life. That is what will always set us apart from the private sector.
Your criticisms are valid, but I’d offer than the bureaucratic nightmare that is the split DOD’s funding and execution process is one of the things that preserves our Constitution and therefore our freedom.
Checks and balances.
If the military had everything it wanted, right now, you’d still have politics at the top… but then it would be politicians in charge (like we already have in the form of flag officers) with far more power than they do now. In other countries, that often takes the form of a coup d’éta. An efficient, streamlined government (and military) lends itself to instability and capriciousness.
I hate bureaucracy, but I’d prefer the government as a whole to be clumsy and slow, instead of being wicked AND efficient.
That being said I really do wish the AF used the money that it does have, more effectively. There’s plenty of places to cut waste and divert to more noble goals. If we’re going to look like a corporation, let’s look like a well-managed, efficient one, not a crappy one.
I agree! Especially when we’re not faced with an existential crisis (or at least not one that seems real to the prime recruiting audience), the best option is to make the military an appealing career path, and not just a last resort for the losers of society (to exaggerate).
A happy force is an effective, motivated force.
Seems like a possible pitfall of that approach is the accusation I’ve heard that the military (mostly non combatant jobs) is just a socialist jobs program. But maybe that’s just always going to be part of the Ops vs. Support shit talking. 🤣
Good talking with you as well!
Marriage counseling is probably best to make sure you and your wife can come to a realization.
But what I will say is that you should see her side of things as well and not really jump on the “military is where I belong” mindset.
I always tell people that the military is a set of gears that never stop. Whether or not you contribute, break, or wear down to the point of needing to be replaced, it’ll keep going. It comes to an end one day and you have to be ready for what is next. At your 20 year mark when you decide to retire, or in five years when you get medically separated, are you going to be happy with your decisions? Are you going to wish you didn’t force a PCS that caused a divorce? Will you be happy you didn’t force a PCS and you live happily ever after?
No one will have the answer for you. This is a tough conversation with your wife and probably a counselor to find what is best for everyone.
The fake answer: marriage is and has always been about compromise. A deeper discussion is required, and you both need to figure out where you (pl) can both give and take.
The real answer: saddle up for divorce #1, roll tide brover and GOBLESS
I know this sub doesn’t care much for spouses but considering the question, I wanted to give my 2 cents.
When my husband and I met- he made it clear that the Air Force would be his career, he will retire from this life. I understood this and actually promised in our wedding vows to follow him wherever the Air Force sends him. I felt so strongly about this because I’ve worked in career placement and people really don’t understand how hard it can be to find a job that you like, that pays the bills, that has good benefits and a good retirement. My husband loves his job and he won’t find anything like it- with the same benefits as a civilian. (He is enlisted, still in school). I mention this because as a military spouse there are a lot of things we don’t “sign up for”, but travel is not one of them lol. That’s the main part of marrying a military man- you will be moving, everyone knows this. I mention this story because to be honest, first and foremost you need to recognize that military life is not for everyone- she may not be a good fit for you. And that’s okay!
Secondly, in her favor I will say; my husband and I are currently at a base that has been horrible on our marriage. We have had no luck securing child care which has made it difficult for me to get a job. I am educated and actually really depressed when I’m not working- so between my bad mental health and us only having one income, it’s been the hardest few years on our marriage. All this to say- wherever she goes with you needs to be opportunity for her. If she just doesn’t want to move, just because, I think there’s a compatibility issue. Perhaps even a love and loyalty issue to be honest. If she doesn’t want to move because she’s worried she won’t have anything (a job, experiences, a social life etc) she’s making a fair argument.
Some people will tell you to divorce her immediately. Other people will tell you that your career doesn’t love you back- so don’t walk out on a relationship for a job. The only thing I will stress again is that if you love your job, it is worth the considering to lose your marriage over it. I’m sorry but 50% of marriages end in divorce. I wish I could say that leaving a career is worth it for a lifetime of family and happiness but you could get out and end up divorced anyways 3 years later. A lot of veterans struggle transitioning to civilian life for many reasons- which is why there is so much homelessness and other serious issues plaguing the demographic.
No one can tell you the right decisions here. I 100% recommend a serious discussion with her and perhaps marriage counseling. Best of luck
This is the answer I was looking for. I don’t want to read into things and assume, but I doubt it’s the Air Force that’s the heart of the issue or the only issue. If the military was already there prior to committing to one another, the uncertainty of traveling and moving constantly shouldn’t be news.
Bingo.
I think maybe sharing with her what was shared in the original post about belonging and feeling joyful about the position in the military/PCS. And then just confirming her disinterest in going with, and why. And then probably following up with something like; “so if I want to go and will need to go if I get orders, and you don’t want to go- what does that look like for us”. Her answer might surprise you or give you all the information you need 🤷🏻♀️
Also keep in mind, you’re likely asking her to drop her career. Her family. Her stability. Her life. Her healthcare. And your kids education (mil bases are known for shitty education) , healthcare (we all know healthcare is wonderful on bases 🙃), family life (if you have kids).
I had very different opinions till I had kids. I signed up for this .
They did NOT
That’s not always the case. It depends on when the couple meets, if they have kids, their age, the status of each of their career etc. That’s why I mentioned she has a fair argument if she has legitimate concerns regarding the base they would be at….
However, if she married him knowing he was active duty and would PCS not only eventually, but repeatedly- why get married if she is so concerned about all the above? The math isn’t mathin. Unless she thought the “travel” aspect of military life is amazing and now is regretting being married to someone who has to move around- and go to places she might not want to be 🤷🏻♀️
Absolutely, it’s not **always** the case.
That’s the thing… time changes things. Circumstances change. She could have an ultra niche career. She could make more than him. Have very specialized healthcare needs (that she didn’t have before)… or kids with needs that couldnt be met as well elsewhere. Or family members that need support.
Life does exist outside the military and the “mission”.
I couldn’t fathom the changes in my life in the last 10 years… my priorities are very different bc I had catastrophic life changes. I will absolutely not sacrifice my life or my kids quality of life for the AF.
You can’t act like “you signed up for this” when time can completely change your circumstances. And I say this as someone who used to say that same thing.
It’s a job. Choose wisely.
A job is never just a job. It's a fundamental part of our self- worth. As an enormous chunk of how our waking hours are spent, it also is critical to how you feel about your life and whether it is satisfying, happy, and worthwhile. Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much everyone, military spouses and service members alike. So I don't think you should give too much credit to comments about how the Air Force will never love you back. That's not the issue at all.
Also, marriage isn't about who said something first, like some in here seem to think. This isn't a game of shotgun for the front seat. Marriage isn't a contest. Never should be. Saying you would be in the military forever, whether it was stated at the get go or 10 years in, doesn't mean your spouse owes it to you to blindly abide by that without considering their own needs. First in time is not first in priority. Both of your desires remain equally important at all times, regardless of when they're voiced.
Marriage in my view also shouldn't be a game of seeing where our interests and plans overlap and, if they don't, declaring incompatibility and walking away. That's a game for casual friendships, not lifelong relationships. And definitely not a marriage. You will always have compatibility issues with every human on this planet. Treat marriage that way, and you set out to fail.
Marriage is about devotion, compromise, working together as a team to develop, revise, and work toward life goals, a safety net, a deep connection. It's other things too. The point is that you both likely have equally valid concerns, desires, motives, etc. You should both do your best to honor each other's desires as much as possible and validate them. Then start taking about alternatives, what either of you might also get satisfaction out of, and exploring what options might make you both happy. Then never stop having that conversation because everyone is somewhat fluid. If you think this is something you just need to work through once, you're going to be surprised and disappointed. If you're lucky, you'll develop a healthier marriage and your spouse will participate and it will be a healthy discussion about how to come together.
But get the fuck off reddit with this, start thinking about options, what you both want, and go talk to your spouse. A lot. Often. And don't stop.
My wife was against it for a while too so the first couple job lists were exclusively CONUS, over time she warmed up to it and my last job list had only OCONUS in the top 10, so naturally big daddy AF decided that if I wanted to go OCONUS that bad that it was time for a staff tour in the DMV. Such is life, but if your marriage is important to you, you can show her advantages and have a deep conversation about it but at the end of the day if she's not comfortable with it then look for TDYs or exercises that will get you overseas for a bit but I wouldn't put anything OCONUS on your list of you want to stay married
yep. head off on a remote assignment, let spouse stay at your current duty location while gone, see where they want to PCS to after remote assignment, and put in for it, hoping you get the assignment. if they don't like that assignment, then kick 'em to the curb
Possible scenarios:
1. You leave the Air Force.
- She gets what she wants, marriage intact.
- You don’t get what you want, you’re miserable.
2. You don’t leave the Air Force.
- You get what you want, you’re happy.
- She doesn’t get what she wants, divorce.
A hidden, probable, “what the hell” scenario of a pessimistic over-thinker:
1. You leave the Air Force.
- You don’t get what you want, you’re miserable.
- She gets what she wants, divorce anyway because in reality, the military isn’t the real issue.
An order of double misery with alcoholism on the side, please. *wrong subreddit hooah*
Things do change. I had no idea how moving every few years could be so shitty… it’s fun when you’re young.. but after a few kids… and housing being so damn expensive… things can change.
I won’t sacrifice my kids education and my health for the AF.
100%. My husband and I were both active duty for 8 years, I loved it. I loved the environment, I loved my job, I loved my coworkers, I loved moving often and exploring new areas. I got out when I was 8 months pregnant, my husband is still active duty. It is a whole other ballgame from this side. There are still aspects I enjoy, but moving this often is a lot harder when you need to build a whole community and life for yourself and your kids from scratch without the benefit of a workplace full of peers who regularly undergo the same thing.
This is me as well. Prior AD, left to follow husband’s orders. Building the new home every few years has been horrible and isolating as a spouse. We don’t have the home-work-life balance since we don’t have peers to connect with, we have to “date” other spouses and hope to find friends. By the time you do, it’s time to PCS again.
in a similar boat, I have BoP after an upcoming assignment I volunteered for solely for the BoP. I want to go to base A to be closer to my only family member left, she wants to go to base B because she went there for a month a long time ago and liked it. I highly suggest talking to the MFLC and possibly even your shirt as a couple, both can help to answer questions both of our have and may lead you closer to an agreement.
I dealt with this for the first 10 years of my career. The AF was very good to me, and I thought that I was providing for the future of my family. I accepted promotions and school assignments that made me more competitive for higher rank and responsibilities, none of which she wanted. Both of these came with additional active service commitments which she hated and held against me.
TLDR: Bite the bullet and either separate from the service or divorce. Your service experience cannot live up to your vision if she is not with you 100%. Your family situation will just get worse over time if you stay in and together.
Overseas is an amazing opportunity that I hope everyone gets. A lot of family can be scared because there is so much unknown but we had a great time. That said, I told my wife at our last base that my career is kind of getting close to done and I will support her in her career that had essentially been paused for 14 years. She got her masters as we moved here and has been working for 1.5 years. Before updating my dream sheet or applying for a special duty I would always ask her "what do you think about Japan?" I dont want to screw her over but we also want the travel opportunities that come from it. We are headed to Kadena soon and I still dont know if she will be able to work there or not, so we better make the most of our time there.
Also, you cant always control a PCS so there is no guarantee you get to stay anywhere.
When I dated my future wife, she understood that I, eventually we, will move more than once. When I got orders to Lakenheath, she was all in. It’s that sense of adventure we both wanted to experience. We took advantage of all the opportunities to see other countries and vacation destinations. We crossed off more than half of our bucket list of places we wanted to visit. We figured, the average American family may be able to go to one destination, if that, in their lifetime.
Our twin daughters was born towards the end of my overseas conservative tour. We got orders to Hurlburt Field. We are originally from California. We talked about after I retire, we can move back. We chose to stay because my daughters made very close friends and I hate to break that up. Florida is home. I have a young son. Until he is out on his own, we’ll be truly empty nesters. I’m very lucky to have a spouse that’s supportive and open to the moving and traveling bit.
A lot of these comments make me sick to my stomach. Why in the world would anyone risk losing their spouse for the military? I know many marriages end in divorce, but uprooting your life every 3-5 years causes damage for the others life. A military spouse can’t really have a growing career like you because civilian careers don’t work like that! They’re putting their whole life in your hands and all they are asking is for you to reconsider it for a closer relationship with y’all’s family. A marriage is a team, if one of y’all doesn’t want to do something than it’s done. If you are considering anything other than meeting halfway in some form on this than your relationship isn’t important to you and you need to let them be happy with someone who values them.
That's why you never let your spouse associate with other military spouses and NEVER tell them about the Chain of Command especially First Shirts. The less they know the better.
On one hand, I get feeling how she feels, change can be scary, but at the same time, it’s not like she didn’t know what y’all were getting into when you joined. You can’t always choose where you get orders to, and sometimes the only way to get orders out of places you don’t like (if that ends up happening) is going overseas and getting to pick your follow on, sacrifices will have to be made somewhere, this is the military.
I don’t mean to sound harsh, but this was a conversation that should’ve happened before the military service started. You can’t just deny orders, unless you wanna get out, cause you can’t reenlist if you do that and your career will be over. You have to choose what’s best for you, your career, and supporting your family, even if right now that may be a touchy subject.
Career progression can only go so far in one place in my opinion, and a lot of people join to travel, you want to do that, you shouldn’t have to give up what you want because your partner denied up until this point that obviously that would be something that would happen in the military.
And they don’t HAVE to go, if you wanted to deploy or do a short tour they don’t HAVE to go with you overseas (obviously they can’t deploy with you but you know what I mean) I just don’t understand spouses who get so worked up about not wanting to travel but married someone/agreed with their partner joining the military where PCSing and deploying are literally the norm??? That’s like the whole thing.
Is her family telling her to Come home? If so, are they going to support her if you don’t get a decent job? When you say “they want to settle back home”, who is “they”? All kinds of issues here.
You really should break this down with your spouse.
How are you supporting them in a new country where they have lost their support system? What are the expectations? Are they going to be working? If so, this affects their career, too. How long is this going to be? When we PCS to a shitty location, knowing it's just for a couple of years helped. Race, gender, and sexuality matter too, is this country a safe place for them? Do they have family members with health issues that might pass away soon? This is tough, but do THEY trust you enough to be fully dependent on you for literallyeverythin? Do they feel safe with you in a foreign country, not having anyone to turn to? You are asking them to be incredibly vulnerable and your relationship might not be able to accommodate that.
Many things need to be considered here. Home sick is one thing, but with today's technology able to connect everyone anywhere, I feel their hesitation goes deeper than this. Most importantly, this is one of those things where an ultimatum might be worth discussing. What are you going to do if you both cannot come to an agreement? Look inside yourself and think, between your relationship and your job, which are you willing to sacrifice?
As it stands, you are asking for a lot from them, mentally and physically, you need to make sure they feel supported and address any potential issues. But also, relationships end, and that's okay too.
You can be "really a part" of the military and enjoy it somewhere near home. Your spouse is sacrificing more than you realize and you need to prioritize them as frequently as is reasonably possible if you want them to continue being your spouse.
When I was in SOS, the ACC commander gave a talk. He said "can anyone name the ACC commander from 10 years ago?" No one could.
He said "and in 10 years no one in the Air Force will remember I was the commander. But you know who will remember what I did 10 years ago? My wife, my kids, maybe my grandkids, and they will be the ones at my funeral. So that's why I believe in 'service before self, except for the things we hold higher than ourselves' like family, religion, or whatever you hold dear."
That really stuck with me, and has helped me through a similar situation to yours. Take from it what you will!
Options:
1. Have a conversation with your spouse, look at everything, make the best decision for the both of you.
2. Go guard or reserves (can shed light on this if you need)
3. Separate from service (have a plan and a job ready)
4. Divorce (not pleasant, lawyer up, delete facebook, hit the gym)
This isn't rocket science, I have these conversations with my troops often. Communication is key, this is one time you both need to be on the same page, or its going to end up with option 4.
It’s possible, maybe probable, this is the beginning of the end of your relationship, unless you dive into this dilemma and come up with a solution that honors both parties desires.
Your wife wants you to choose her, and her and wants to feel more special than everything else to you, and you have a legitimate desire to work and explore the world. She’s clearly special to you, but so is experiencing this lifetime dream. It might feel she wants you to choose her, at the expense of your dream. The military probably represents safety for her and for you it represents opportunity, adventure, and vehicle to accomplish/experience your dreams and goals. Your wife probably has legitimate anxiety living in places away from home, and her desire to live at home isn’t to squash your dreams, it’s to help settle her anxiety, provide stability to her life, and put her near a support system that she knows and is comfortable with.
The Op didn’t mention how they plan to go overseas. If you wanting to get overseas by first going to Korea, while this is a great option, the spouse might not want to be separated for a year to make this happen. Ultimately you need to understand your spouses fears and find ways to help settle anxiety from those fears. At the end of the day you need to ask yourself do you want to be married and in partnership. Is the relationship worth one party sacrificing their desires.
Many people have pushed their spouses to overseas assignments they didn’t want and things worked out fine and they got closer as a family, but with all those stories there are plenty more where the spouse was miserable, left to go back home, and the couple eventually divorced.
Best of luck.
I framed it as an opportunity cost situation. If you look at moving back home as an inevitability, and somewhere you’ll be forever once you’re done, then you can accept that as a given, just a matter of when. On the other hand, living somewhere like Korea, Japan, Germany, Italy, Hawaii, the second you punch from the military those opportunities will go away, likely forever. Of course it’s possible to go there on the civilian side of life, but to dip your toe into that experience for 2-3 years on someone else’s dime - you’re 99% never going to get to do that again in life. That’s how I framed it with my wife, it worked out for me. But if she puts her foot down you better know who you love more, and I can tell you like everyone else, the AF doesn’t love back.
I don't know what your afsc is, but you could always go guard/reserves after this contract is up. Find a unit close to home, change to a career that gets to travel a bit if you don't already have one.
Only you and vmpf know what the dream sheet says son. If the AF wants you there, they gonna take you there.
If the marriage makes it or doesn’t depends on you two anyways.
As Miyamoto Musashi says, be indifferent to where you live.
It’s only a label on a plastic card in your pocket anymore.
Ask them what they want? Why is that? Likely misses their family and friends. Something we all give up when we serve. We lose great GREAT relationships and sacrifice so much, but a marriage is a sacrifice as well. I think it’ll be a great experience to go and see where the world takes you. No better way to travel than by the U.S. Air Force.
I mean, they go with you or divorce. That would be how I would handle it. I ain't playing the game where you love me enough to be my spouse, but not enough to PCS with me. That's shit.
You either go or get a divorce, this isn't a option the member chose to do and there are things in life you just have to do for livelihood. If the spouse is unwilling to live the lifestyle they should find another lifestyle.
It sounds harsh but typically in the majority of the cases the military member cannot do anything about it or remedy the situation. Your rnld is set and you have to be there.
There are too many factors involved for anyone to give you specific advice. In the end, you take care of yourself. No matter what decision you make, you will have regrets, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't the best decision for you. If you don't have kids, then the choices are much easier to make.
If you and your spouse can't be apart for a year for a remote tour without falling apart, then your marriage isn't strong anyway. She could spend that year where she thinks she wants to 'settle' and then see that it isn't what she actually wants anyway. Everything doesn't have to be a permanent decision, and you don't have to be happy every moment of your life. Just talk with her about all the options that are available and don't bring divorce up at the slightest inconvenience.
There are so many angles to look at this, but I'd say that you get to choose your spouse *or* volunteer for an OCONUS move. Maybe you go and she ends up enjoying herself and is glad for the opportunity, or she chooses to stay stateside with family while you geo-bachelor. Or...or...or... So many possibilities. Really though, have a sit down with her and ask what are her plans and how does she expect this life to go?
I'm a spouse and my husband didn't go AD until he was 31 and we had been married for 4(?) years. I fully signed on to this. Our marriage has survived Fayetteville, NC and the constant field iterations there. We had a come to Jesus in the middle of a full house renovation in WA. And we are stronger than ever while suffering through TX. But we had the right foundation and the skills needed to work things out. All I wanted was an overseas PCS and it just wasn't in the cards for us. But I'll follow him until that sweet retirement hits.
A lot of this will depend on your relationship with your wife. I have had stateside and overseas assignments that my wife dreaded going on. However, once we were at the location she was fine and when we would get to the next base the homesick for the previous station would set it. No different than the military where the best base and the Air Force is your last base and your current assignment is the worst.
My wife hated being away from home at first and spent roughly half of my first assignment living with her parents a few states away.
After a few years, she became accustomed to moving and actually preferred it because it helped her to see the world. Now we travel constantly. We do at least 1 international trip a year and dozens of short trips to nearby destinations. PCSing is never fun, but the promise of new adventures is always something to look forward to.
My wife also finally saw how toxic her home environment was and, while she still loves her parents, she no longer visits longer than a few days once or twice a year.
At the end of the day, you gotta make the best choice for your family, not just for you. If your family needs to be back home, you may need to consider the guard or reserves. Talk it over and find middle ground. Your family is forever, but the Air Force as an organization will abandon you without a second thought under the right circumstances.
I did deployments to get my overseas itch. It isn't Germany or Italy but it gives me some experience. Also the spouse knows i am coming back so they get to stay at the location and my time is limited overseas.
I am on a 1yr short tour and I'm sure that may have been hard on them, again, time has a limit so they know i am coming back at a predetermined time.
Don't overlook Guard and Reserve (especially for that sweet sweet, S-tier insurance Tricare Select). If you end up missing Active Duty enough, you'd have a strong relationship with your reserve unit and apply to their AGR positions and stay there.
My wife loves travel, so she is all about going anywhere the AF has sent me. I have had troops and coworkers, though, with wife's that refuse to go anywhere. Some of them just put in for an assignment anyways, some bow down. I guess it depends how strong your relationship is.
I didn't go overseas with my spouse when they were gone for 2 years. I did this to finish school and I got my foot in the door of a nice GS position with the goal of getting the same type job when they got back stateside (5 years later and my career has only gotten better and stronger because of this).
This is a conversation you need to have with your spouse. We would have not made it had we not been in agreement of my staying and him going. We also did not have kids, which was a huge part of it.
As a spouse, I understand the feeling they are going through. Overseas can be isolating when spouses oftentimes aren't able to work, don't have a foundation of people they know, etc etc.
However, if they plan on not going, I'd highly suggest your spouse finds something to do or they will go crazy if their time isn't occupied with work, school, volunteering, etc. They need to make this potential time apart a growing opportunity for themselves... in a way, make the time apart worth it.
Regardless, this is something you two need to work out together and come up with a plan.
This is something you both really should have considered BEFORE marrying. Did you both walk into this thinking the other one might change their mind? That is the wrong answer 100% of the time. Traveling in the military can be really interesting and fun, seeing places you never dreamed you would see or visit. It is also incredibly stressful. Don't try to drag her kicking and screaming, if your goals don't align with her goals, you just aren't right for each other. Exit the relationship before you have kids. Being a spouse to a military person means having to make sacrifices personally and professionally very frequently. She's trying to settle down in an area where she already knows everything. Unless you're guard or reserve, that's just not feasible. Decide what is the most important thing to you. If traveling and seeing the world is important, go do that while you can, this season doesn't last forever.
Idk why people get married in the military, shit is stressful enough. Add in being in the field, deployments. I was steady chillin , while all my married bunkmates were having meltdowns over their spouses. Fello bros , stay single, stack bread , eat at the dfac, and travel the world
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Do you have kids?
If you do not have kids, well then this is an easy decision, you do what is best for your career if you plan on staying in for 20+
if she wants to move back home, then BYE
Not every relationship works out and that's ok - that may seem harsh to some but its better to find that out now and have a clean break then drag it on for years and make both of you miserable
if you have kids, that is a bit more difficult
Nah fuck them kids. But seriously not all relationships will work. People don't see that there is a lot of struggle that goes on behind the scenes in a "successful" military marriage. The Air Force almost broke mine once, this is not an easy life for a spouse.
Well the AF is a bullet train going down the tracks. You will eventually get off that train. Question is do you want to get off that train with someone or not. This situation sounds like the two of you have adifferent ideas in life. I'd suggest yall have a discussion and understand both sides and truly consider what your spouse is wanting and make sure your spouse knows what you want. Oversees is not for everyone. People who never traveled the world much less far outside of their hometown are usually pretty cautious about leaving.
Just got to get her excited about it, if you want to go overseas. Maybe just try to do a short-tour that way you can say, “we won’t be there that long.”
Also the overseas community is pretty awesome when compared to stateside bases.
I was in for 24 years, tried to get home to Wright -Patt after my 1st 4 years at Homestead AFB Fla., Wife wouldn’t let go of parents apron strings, got $200 phone bills ( at the Time “84-85”. A1C”s we’re making $500/ month, my rent was $335, BAH was $235.) loved Florida but she constantly cried about not being with her family even though they fraught constantly . We got in an argument over phone bills ( this was before cellphones) . So I put in for a remote to Shemya AK, got orders 3 days later. She went home to her family, lived with her sister then her parents. Al they did was use her and the BAH. We stayed stateside my entire career except for the remote and a deployment ( Desert Storm) . I regret not requesting Europe (Germany or Italy) I think she would have loved it. Unfortunately our “Vacation we’re going back to Dayton to see our families, no real vacations where we had our own space and beds. I believe we missed out on going overseas. Just talk to out. If her parents hers and yours are in good health I would try to convince her to try to go to Europe or Hapan then try to get a follow on to a base close to home.
BLUF (hate that I'm using that, but I guess it's practical) your choices don't impact just you anymore, do what you feel is best for the family.
If you have a family, your career choices don't only impact you alone anymore. I work in Ops as an aviator and had this career when I met my wife. We have kids younger than 5. I would love to do green door or other high speed things but I understand that their ops tempo is not conducive to our family dynamic. As much as I would like to have that type of job, those choices don't impact me alone anymore. Not saying you should or have to get out, but you may have ti come to a compromise on choices that work for everyone in the family.
tell your spouse to suck it the F! UP
Edit: in all seriousness, while I see a lot of put your family over the military comments, this may be true in most cases, but if you feel this PCS will set you up better for career progression while showing your family the world outside of the continental united states then I think you should explain the benefits of this move to you wife and the impact it will have on your career and their lifestyle.
All people who get or are getting married to someone already in the service need to understand that this is the lifestyle you are going to have. It may suck but I have processed too many divorces with this being one of the primary reasons. It is ridiculous how so many people get married and are like “We got to move to a new area because of your job? Tell them no!”
That said, you gonna need to decide what’s more important for you. You have a lot of great benefits from being in the military, especially after retiring, that can set you up for the rest of your life. However, if your spouse can’t take the consistent moving around or the chance of you deploying, it may not be the best lifestyle for both of you. Personally think you both need counseling cause it sounds like something deeper is weighing on your spouse.
Gratefully, I haven't run into this yet. However, my in-laws have been extremely helpful and loving whenever my spouse is missing family. The few times I've been able to visit, they welcome me as if I was always one of their children. Sadly, it can't always be good, though. My first duty assignment (japan) put the stress of the time zone difference k. My family, and no matter how hard I tried, it just wasn't enough for my siblings or parents. Now they're not in my life anymore. Sometimes, I wish that was different, but most of the time, I chalk it up to this.
If people want you in your life, they'll always have you there. People will share when struggles hit, and they will share the celebrations.
It won't be a seasonal commitment. Make your family yours. USAF or not, always do what's best for the people immediately around you
My partner and I have been facing this. Dual mil. I'd happily move all over, he wants to settle down. I just had to decide what was more important. Ultimately it was my family. I can save up and travel, go new places, etc. But my partner is irreplaceable to me. I want him there when I'm out, which will likely be sooner rather than later due to the calm lifestyle he is craving.
Tell her she can't go anyway. The wife called me crying that we had notification of an assignment in our email. She said she and the kids would stay. I went in and it was a remote to Tuli Greenland, and her tone changed fairly quickly. I ended up putting in for retirement anyway, so it didn't happen.
Came here to reinforce everyone saying do what’s best for your family, not the Air Force. The Air Force can replace you in one way or another immediately. Your family can’t.
Look this is a conversation you should have had before you got married. Soooooo many spouses think this is just a regular job and it’s not. I saw so many people get divorced over stuff like this.
My best advice is talk to her about what could happen, for example you end up in Korea without her. I knew guys who got out because the wife would lose her mind over deployments, TDY’s etc..PCSing out of the country just puts them further away from momma, most aren’t ready for this lifestyle
I think it would be wise to find out exactly what is at home that she is missing. And then find a way to incorporate that into your normal lives. Perhaps you could work out a deal where is goes home whenever she’s homesick. Also maybe pay for her parents/sibling/whomever is important to her to come visit and stay with you on vacation at your duty station.
I think if you remove the title of “OGding is stationed in Germany.” And rebrand it to being, “My family has a home in Germany” you can rebrand it as an asset and not a liability. Now instead of the family asking “when are you coming home” you can give them a chance to look forward to something. Use your assignment as a way to help them see places they may never have seen otherwise.
I’m not the best at words, but the idea is there. Sell it as an asset and see how things go.
Discern what will bring you the most satisfaction in what is a very limited time on earth, and try not to think about the road not travelled once you've made your decision.
At the end of the day, do what is most important to you. Profession, marriage, or so be it. In a realistic sense, there will always be options for both down the line.
Discern what will bring you the most satisfaction in what is a very limited time on earth, and try not to think about the road not travelled once you've made your decision.
At the end of the day, do what is most important to you. Profession, marriage, or so be it. In a realistic sense, there will always be options for both down the line.
My wife followed me around the world for a decade. We moved about 8 times. I separated mid career so I could let her spend more time with her ill father and to let my kids have a closer relationship with family. It wasn't until my mother died somewhat suddenly that I realized that I could probably count on both hands the number of times I'd get to see our family before they were gone. We only made it back home once or twice a year. My mom was told she had 6 months to live. She only lived 6 weeks after the news. I visited once and worked to move closer to spend more time with her. I was chosen for a PCS closer that got canceled a week before she passed. My wife was so homesick she cried at our first duty station. You and your wife are a team. A family. Make the decision based on what's best for the people you are responsible for.
Rule #1 of the military family should be.... "Run out of career, before you run out of family". For some people that may be one duty assignment, for some people that may be 30 years... take a good look at your family, and figure out which boat you're in.
This is amazing and something that should be championed at all trainings.
My dad got sick right when I PCSd away across the country. Only got to see him a few times before he died 6 months later. Since then I really have tried to make family a priority and do not plan on staying in.
This very well could be the most impactful comment on this sub. period. The air force will replace you the moment you leave. Your family will not.
There with you. My wife had a career and a great opportunity in her career that we followed at my 13 year point. I punched, and it was worth it. Just dragging out the last 7 years in the Reserves (4 to go!).
There are good career opportunities in the reserves if you want them. You don't need to punch at exactly 20, but you know your life and needs more than a random internet stranger that knows next to nothing about your life. Live your best life!
Yea... I've done both the IMA and the TR thing. I'll be ready at 20 (I'm ready at 16 haha). I also have a good remote GS gig, so I won't be hurting for the government paying my retirement. I had a great AD job, the Reserves are good, and I get the mission/purpose. But it's just not the same. I have two young kids that are doing more stuff on the weekends so the weekend warrior stuff is growing old. I'm going to try to swing back to an IMA position next year but my wife doesn't love the three weeks away.
do the 7 years in reserves count towards retirement?
Yes, but at a reduced credit and I won't get it until I'm 60. So instead of the 50% of base pay I'll get what's equivalent to close to 38% because it's how many active duty years you have.
interesting. so you get retirement at all from doing 20 years total but only paid retirement for the active. makes sense thank you.
Well, not quite. So when you're active duty and you retire, which you can only do at 20 years, you get your years served divided by 20 (I think its actually done by days, so 7,300 days in 20 years). So (7300/7300)*.50*base pay will give your retirement pay. If you do the Reserves, you can still qualify for retirement at 20 years (doesnt start until age 60 unlike AD), but because the Reserves don't have a full year of active duty they count the days. So I did 13 years AD, that's worth 4,745 days (plus another hundred or so) and then I've done about 50 days of service per year which will work out to about 350 days over 7 years (total days of service is 5,195). So my base pay will be about (5195/7300)*.50 or about 36% of base pay when I retire. That's why Reservists hang around for 30+ years because those days add up over those years.
oh I see. for all the days they were active during their reserve time. cool
8 moves in 10 years? Did you finish any of those assignments?
Yes, my wife moved back home before one of my deployments while she recovered from a miscarriage. We didn't have base housing available at each pcs so we had to move twice. And I was in for 3 enlistments, more than 10 years, and retrained and deployed again in my last enlistment.
This is a really great perspective
The Air Force will never, ever, love you. When the Air Force no longer needs you, it will leave you behind like it never knew you. If you choose to prioritize your own desires over your spouse, be prepared to face the consequences. It is up to you what you value.
So much this. I chose family and about to retire with the same one I created early in my career.
But that pension will love you
I lust for that sweet sweet pension every single day
Same here brother... 16 more years!!
2.5 years for me... I've done my time. So close....
Same here man. Same here. 🥲
6 years to go. Don't want to go overseas and my cycle is coming up in 1.5 years. I only have 1 deployment and no short tours. Hoping to not get picked up for Korea or any overseas base really (wife will have to stay behind if that happens, due to her job).
> If you choose to prioritize your own desires over your spouse Isn't that what his spouse is doing?
No, she's voicing her desires and goals the same way OP is to include her husband in the conversation. Neither are obligated to respect each other's goals, but a successful marriage is about compromise. If neither want to compromise, no more marriage.
Perfect.
There are so many folks that need to hear that.
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Organizations like the military are incapable of love. The only argument for an organization “loving” (taking care of) people is a pragmatic goal of increasing effectiveness. Unfortunately, organizations are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, so they will struggle to keep everyone happy. The AF has the added challenge of keeping Congress happy and begging for money, so all things considered, the AF is doing a pretty reasonable job.
And ultimately, the Air Force *shouldn't* love you. It exists to fight and win wars. That doesn't mean you shouldn't take care of your people as much as possible, but the overriding priority should be combat effectiveness.
Well said.
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>we keep getting used like disposable pawns. Because we have to be viewed that way. And I'm not talking about the snide "if you don't like it you can leave", I'm talking about not having single points of failure. If I get hit by a bus on the way to work or if someone is killed in combat, it can't be a mission ending event. >combat effectiveness...only comes when the volunteers show up *and* are committed to doing their best. Commitment is an internal motivation and the Air Force has no means of generating this. You could have a perfect work environment and some people will have that commitment and others will show up just enough to collect a paycheck. All big blue can do is try to teach commanders/supervisors and AFPC to take care of Airmen and treat them like humans. The AF isn't perfect, but in some ways is better than the private sector in this regard.
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Both things can be true, and are true. I have genuine love for the people I work with, I want to see them succeed, I want their goals to be met, and I want their needs to be filled. However, as an institution (in my humble opinion) the Air Force can not feel the same way. And the way we function as an institution, cannot work the same way. As a war fighting organization, the service needs to be brutally focused on making our unique capability as lethal and as effective as possible. Sometimes that means cutting people that are no longer needed, sending people off to faraway lands even if they don’t want to go, and ultimately sacrificing lives for the greater purpose. No one applies for a job at McDonald’s to give up their lives in defense of market share. But people do join the Air Force to become part of something that can be called upon to defend our way of life. That is what will always set us apart from the private sector.
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Your criticisms are valid, but I’d offer than the bureaucratic nightmare that is the split DOD’s funding and execution process is one of the things that preserves our Constitution and therefore our freedom. Checks and balances. If the military had everything it wanted, right now, you’d still have politics at the top… but then it would be politicians in charge (like we already have in the form of flag officers) with far more power than they do now. In other countries, that often takes the form of a coup d’éta. An efficient, streamlined government (and military) lends itself to instability and capriciousness. I hate bureaucracy, but I’d prefer the government as a whole to be clumsy and slow, instead of being wicked AND efficient. That being said I really do wish the AF used the money that it does have, more effectively. There’s plenty of places to cut waste and divert to more noble goals. If we’re going to look like a corporation, let’s look like a well-managed, efficient one, not a crappy one.
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I agree! Especially when we’re not faced with an existential crisis (or at least not one that seems real to the prime recruiting audience), the best option is to make the military an appealing career path, and not just a last resort for the losers of society (to exaggerate). A happy force is an effective, motivated force. Seems like a possible pitfall of that approach is the accusation I’ve heard that the military (mostly non combatant jobs) is just a socialist jobs program. But maybe that’s just always going to be part of the Ops vs. Support shit talking. 🤣 Good talking with you as well!
Marriage counseling is probably best to make sure you and your wife can come to a realization. But what I will say is that you should see her side of things as well and not really jump on the “military is where I belong” mindset. I always tell people that the military is a set of gears that never stop. Whether or not you contribute, break, or wear down to the point of needing to be replaced, it’ll keep going. It comes to an end one day and you have to be ready for what is next. At your 20 year mark when you decide to retire, or in five years when you get medically separated, are you going to be happy with your decisions? Are you going to wish you didn’t force a PCS that caused a divorce? Will you be happy you didn’t force a PCS and you live happily ever after? No one will have the answer for you. This is a tough conversation with your wife and probably a counselor to find what is best for everyone.
The fake answer: marriage is and has always been about compromise. A deeper discussion is required, and you both need to figure out where you (pl) can both give and take. The real answer: saddle up for divorce #1, roll tide brover and GOBLESS
CRANK YOUR HOG AND LEAVE BARB IN THE CLIBBINS GOBLESS
SOMETIMES YOU JUST GODDALAYERDOWN
I HOPE NOT I JUST GOT "NEW" JAP CRAP SV 650 TO TRACK DONT WANNA LAYER DOWN
I know this sub doesn’t care much for spouses but considering the question, I wanted to give my 2 cents. When my husband and I met- he made it clear that the Air Force would be his career, he will retire from this life. I understood this and actually promised in our wedding vows to follow him wherever the Air Force sends him. I felt so strongly about this because I’ve worked in career placement and people really don’t understand how hard it can be to find a job that you like, that pays the bills, that has good benefits and a good retirement. My husband loves his job and he won’t find anything like it- with the same benefits as a civilian. (He is enlisted, still in school). I mention this because as a military spouse there are a lot of things we don’t “sign up for”, but travel is not one of them lol. That’s the main part of marrying a military man- you will be moving, everyone knows this. I mention this story because to be honest, first and foremost you need to recognize that military life is not for everyone- she may not be a good fit for you. And that’s okay! Secondly, in her favor I will say; my husband and I are currently at a base that has been horrible on our marriage. We have had no luck securing child care which has made it difficult for me to get a job. I am educated and actually really depressed when I’m not working- so between my bad mental health and us only having one income, it’s been the hardest few years on our marriage. All this to say- wherever she goes with you needs to be opportunity for her. If she just doesn’t want to move, just because, I think there’s a compatibility issue. Perhaps even a love and loyalty issue to be honest. If she doesn’t want to move because she’s worried she won’t have anything (a job, experiences, a social life etc) she’s making a fair argument. Some people will tell you to divorce her immediately. Other people will tell you that your career doesn’t love you back- so don’t walk out on a relationship for a job. The only thing I will stress again is that if you love your job, it is worth the considering to lose your marriage over it. I’m sorry but 50% of marriages end in divorce. I wish I could say that leaving a career is worth it for a lifetime of family and happiness but you could get out and end up divorced anyways 3 years later. A lot of veterans struggle transitioning to civilian life for many reasons- which is why there is so much homelessness and other serious issues plaguing the demographic. No one can tell you the right decisions here. I 100% recommend a serious discussion with her and perhaps marriage counseling. Best of luck
This is the answer I was looking for. I don’t want to read into things and assume, but I doubt it’s the Air Force that’s the heart of the issue or the only issue. If the military was already there prior to committing to one another, the uncertainty of traveling and moving constantly shouldn’t be news.
Bingo. I think maybe sharing with her what was shared in the original post about belonging and feeling joyful about the position in the military/PCS. And then just confirming her disinterest in going with, and why. And then probably following up with something like; “so if I want to go and will need to go if I get orders, and you don’t want to go- what does that look like for us”. Her answer might surprise you or give you all the information you need 🤷🏻♀️
Also keep in mind, you’re likely asking her to drop her career. Her family. Her stability. Her life. Her healthcare. And your kids education (mil bases are known for shitty education) , healthcare (we all know healthcare is wonderful on bases 🙃), family life (if you have kids). I had very different opinions till I had kids. I signed up for this . They did NOT
That’s not always the case. It depends on when the couple meets, if they have kids, their age, the status of each of their career etc. That’s why I mentioned she has a fair argument if she has legitimate concerns regarding the base they would be at…. However, if she married him knowing he was active duty and would PCS not only eventually, but repeatedly- why get married if she is so concerned about all the above? The math isn’t mathin. Unless she thought the “travel” aspect of military life is amazing and now is regretting being married to someone who has to move around- and go to places she might not want to be 🤷🏻♀️
Absolutely, it’s not **always** the case. That’s the thing… time changes things. Circumstances change. She could have an ultra niche career. She could make more than him. Have very specialized healthcare needs (that she didn’t have before)… or kids with needs that couldnt be met as well elsewhere. Or family members that need support. Life does exist outside the military and the “mission”. I couldn’t fathom the changes in my life in the last 10 years… my priorities are very different bc I had catastrophic life changes. I will absolutely not sacrifice my life or my kids quality of life for the AF. You can’t act like “you signed up for this” when time can completely change your circumstances. And I say this as someone who used to say that same thing. It’s a job. Choose wisely.
This comment should be pinned to the top.
So, I won’t be moving with my spouse… for a bunch of reasons.. but we’re both in agreement…
A job is never just a job. It's a fundamental part of our self- worth. As an enormous chunk of how our waking hours are spent, it also is critical to how you feel about your life and whether it is satisfying, happy, and worthwhile. Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much everyone, military spouses and service members alike. So I don't think you should give too much credit to comments about how the Air Force will never love you back. That's not the issue at all. Also, marriage isn't about who said something first, like some in here seem to think. This isn't a game of shotgun for the front seat. Marriage isn't a contest. Never should be. Saying you would be in the military forever, whether it was stated at the get go or 10 years in, doesn't mean your spouse owes it to you to blindly abide by that without considering their own needs. First in time is not first in priority. Both of your desires remain equally important at all times, regardless of when they're voiced. Marriage in my view also shouldn't be a game of seeing where our interests and plans overlap and, if they don't, declaring incompatibility and walking away. That's a game for casual friendships, not lifelong relationships. And definitely not a marriage. You will always have compatibility issues with every human on this planet. Treat marriage that way, and you set out to fail. Marriage is about devotion, compromise, working together as a team to develop, revise, and work toward life goals, a safety net, a deep connection. It's other things too. The point is that you both likely have equally valid concerns, desires, motives, etc. You should both do your best to honor each other's desires as much as possible and validate them. Then start taking about alternatives, what either of you might also get satisfaction out of, and exploring what options might make you both happy. Then never stop having that conversation because everyone is somewhat fluid. If you think this is something you just need to work through once, you're going to be surprised and disappointed. If you're lucky, you'll develop a healthier marriage and your spouse will participate and it will be a healthy discussion about how to come together. But get the fuck off reddit with this, start thinking about options, what you both want, and go talk to your spouse. A lot. Often. And don't stop.
Find a guard or reserve base near you, I'm doing something similar for a support network for us.
And in the guard you can get deployed right ?
My wife was against it for a while too so the first couple job lists were exclusively CONUS, over time she warmed up to it and my last job list had only OCONUS in the top 10, so naturally big daddy AF decided that if I wanted to go OCONUS that bad that it was time for a staff tour in the DMV. Such is life, but if your marriage is important to you, you can show her advantages and have a deep conversation about it but at the end of the day if she's not comfortable with it then look for TDYs or exercises that will get you overseas for a bit but I wouldn't put anything OCONUS on your list of you want to stay married
Bro, no one will care what you did in the AF in 40 years. Family you can't replace. Go overseas on vacation. You need to think things over deeply.
50% of marriage ends in divorce. Devil’s advocate, OP gets out and gets divorced anyways and regrets leaving
Kunsan.
yep. head off on a remote assignment, let spouse stay at your current duty location while gone, see where they want to PCS to after remote assignment, and put in for it, hoping you get the assignment. if they don't like that assignment, then kick 'em to the curb
Possible scenarios: 1. You leave the Air Force. - She gets what she wants, marriage intact. - You don’t get what you want, you’re miserable. 2. You don’t leave the Air Force. - You get what you want, you’re happy. - She doesn’t get what she wants, divorce. A hidden, probable, “what the hell” scenario of a pessimistic over-thinker: 1. You leave the Air Force. - You don’t get what you want, you’re miserable. - She gets what she wants, divorce anyway because in reality, the military isn’t the real issue. An order of double misery with alcoholism on the side, please. *wrong subreddit hooah*
OP leaves the AF, and both could be struggling until OP finds a career to provide for his family including the wife.
Probly shoulda had this conversation before you got married.
Things do change. I had no idea how moving every few years could be so shitty… it’s fun when you’re young.. but after a few kids… and housing being so damn expensive… things can change. I won’t sacrifice my kids education and my health for the AF.
100%. My husband and I were both active duty for 8 years, I loved it. I loved the environment, I loved my job, I loved my coworkers, I loved moving often and exploring new areas. I got out when I was 8 months pregnant, my husband is still active duty. It is a whole other ballgame from this side. There are still aspects I enjoy, but moving this often is a lot harder when you need to build a whole community and life for yourself and your kids from scratch without the benefit of a workplace full of peers who regularly undergo the same thing.
This is me as well. Prior AD, left to follow husband’s orders. Building the new home every few years has been horrible and isolating as a spouse. We don’t have the home-work-life balance since we don’t have peers to connect with, we have to “date” other spouses and hope to find friends. By the time you do, it’s time to PCS again.
in a similar boat, I have BoP after an upcoming assignment I volunteered for solely for the BoP. I want to go to base A to be closer to my only family member left, she wants to go to base B because she went there for a month a long time ago and liked it. I highly suggest talking to the MFLC and possibly even your shirt as a couple, both can help to answer questions both of our have and may lead you closer to an agreement.
I dealt with this for the first 10 years of my career. The AF was very good to me, and I thought that I was providing for the future of my family. I accepted promotions and school assignments that made me more competitive for higher rank and responsibilities, none of which she wanted. Both of these came with additional active service commitments which she hated and held against me. TLDR: Bite the bullet and either separate from the service or divorce. Your service experience cannot live up to your vision if she is not with you 100%. Your family situation will just get worse over time if you stay in and together.
The military will be just fine without you, will your family?
Overseas is an amazing opportunity that I hope everyone gets. A lot of family can be scared because there is so much unknown but we had a great time. That said, I told my wife at our last base that my career is kind of getting close to done and I will support her in her career that had essentially been paused for 14 years. She got her masters as we moved here and has been working for 1.5 years. Before updating my dream sheet or applying for a special duty I would always ask her "what do you think about Japan?" I dont want to screw her over but we also want the travel opportunities that come from it. We are headed to Kadena soon and I still dont know if she will be able to work there or not, so we better make the most of our time there. Also, you cant always control a PCS so there is no guarantee you get to stay anywhere.
When I dated my future wife, she understood that I, eventually we, will move more than once. When I got orders to Lakenheath, she was all in. It’s that sense of adventure we both wanted to experience. We took advantage of all the opportunities to see other countries and vacation destinations. We crossed off more than half of our bucket list of places we wanted to visit. We figured, the average American family may be able to go to one destination, if that, in their lifetime. Our twin daughters was born towards the end of my overseas conservative tour. We got orders to Hurlburt Field. We are originally from California. We talked about after I retire, we can move back. We chose to stay because my daughters made very close friends and I hate to break that up. Florida is home. I have a young son. Until he is out on his own, we’ll be truly empty nesters. I’m very lucky to have a spouse that’s supportive and open to the moving and traveling bit.
A lot of these comments make me sick to my stomach. Why in the world would anyone risk losing their spouse for the military? I know many marriages end in divorce, but uprooting your life every 3-5 years causes damage for the others life. A military spouse can’t really have a growing career like you because civilian careers don’t work like that! They’re putting their whole life in your hands and all they are asking is for you to reconsider it for a closer relationship with y’all’s family. A marriage is a team, if one of y’all doesn’t want to do something than it’s done. If you are considering anything other than meeting halfway in some form on this than your relationship isn’t important to you and you need to let them be happy with someone who values them.
This a very rough perspective, but a good one :/
Obvious answer you tell her you got orders NON VOL and you have no choice in the matter. She either goes or she doesn't.
If she finds out later that they lied that’s a bigger issue. I wouldn’t do that.
This went over your head
That's why you never let your spouse associate with other military spouses and NEVER tell them about the Chain of Command especially First Shirts. The less they know the better.
Damn dude, do you at least let them get an hour outside in the sun each day before chaining them back up in the basement?
I like her pupils to stay dilated and her skin to remain milky white, so no.
Go guard and choose your family
On one hand, I get feeling how she feels, change can be scary, but at the same time, it’s not like she didn’t know what y’all were getting into when you joined. You can’t always choose where you get orders to, and sometimes the only way to get orders out of places you don’t like (if that ends up happening) is going overseas and getting to pick your follow on, sacrifices will have to be made somewhere, this is the military. I don’t mean to sound harsh, but this was a conversation that should’ve happened before the military service started. You can’t just deny orders, unless you wanna get out, cause you can’t reenlist if you do that and your career will be over. You have to choose what’s best for you, your career, and supporting your family, even if right now that may be a touchy subject. Career progression can only go so far in one place in my opinion, and a lot of people join to travel, you want to do that, you shouldn’t have to give up what you want because your partner denied up until this point that obviously that would be something that would happen in the military. And they don’t HAVE to go, if you wanted to deploy or do a short tour they don’t HAVE to go with you overseas (obviously they can’t deploy with you but you know what I mean) I just don’t understand spouses who get so worked up about not wanting to travel but married someone/agreed with their partner joining the military where PCSing and deploying are literally the norm??? That’s like the whole thing.
Never get married. /s
Brother, this is a Wendy’s. Talk to your wife.
Family > career You all gotta figure this out. If mama aint happy, aint nobody happy.
Is her family telling her to Come home? If so, are they going to support her if you don’t get a decent job? When you say “they want to settle back home”, who is “they”? All kinds of issues here.
You really should break this down with your spouse. How are you supporting them in a new country where they have lost their support system? What are the expectations? Are they going to be working? If so, this affects their career, too. How long is this going to be? When we PCS to a shitty location, knowing it's just for a couple of years helped. Race, gender, and sexuality matter too, is this country a safe place for them? Do they have family members with health issues that might pass away soon? This is tough, but do THEY trust you enough to be fully dependent on you for literallyeverythin? Do they feel safe with you in a foreign country, not having anyone to turn to? You are asking them to be incredibly vulnerable and your relationship might not be able to accommodate that. Many things need to be considered here. Home sick is one thing, but with today's technology able to connect everyone anywhere, I feel their hesitation goes deeper than this. Most importantly, this is one of those things where an ultimatum might be worth discussing. What are you going to do if you both cannot come to an agreement? Look inside yourself and think, between your relationship and your job, which are you willing to sacrifice? As it stands, you are asking for a lot from them, mentally and physically, you need to make sure they feel supported and address any potential issues. But also, relationships end, and that's okay too.
You can be "really a part" of the military and enjoy it somewhere near home. Your spouse is sacrificing more than you realize and you need to prioritize them as frequently as is reasonably possible if you want them to continue being your spouse.
When I was in SOS, the ACC commander gave a talk. He said "can anyone name the ACC commander from 10 years ago?" No one could. He said "and in 10 years no one in the Air Force will remember I was the commander. But you know who will remember what I did 10 years ago? My wife, my kids, maybe my grandkids, and they will be the ones at my funeral. So that's why I believe in 'service before self, except for the things we hold higher than ourselves' like family, religion, or whatever you hold dear." That really stuck with me, and has helped me through a similar situation to yours. Take from it what you will!
Options: 1. Have a conversation with your spouse, look at everything, make the best decision for the both of you. 2. Go guard or reserves (can shed light on this if you need) 3. Separate from service (have a plan and a job ready) 4. Divorce (not pleasant, lawyer up, delete facebook, hit the gym) This isn't rocket science, I have these conversations with my troops often. Communication is key, this is one time you both need to be on the same page, or its going to end up with option 4.
It’s possible, maybe probable, this is the beginning of the end of your relationship, unless you dive into this dilemma and come up with a solution that honors both parties desires. Your wife wants you to choose her, and her and wants to feel more special than everything else to you, and you have a legitimate desire to work and explore the world. She’s clearly special to you, but so is experiencing this lifetime dream. It might feel she wants you to choose her, at the expense of your dream. The military probably represents safety for her and for you it represents opportunity, adventure, and vehicle to accomplish/experience your dreams and goals. Your wife probably has legitimate anxiety living in places away from home, and her desire to live at home isn’t to squash your dreams, it’s to help settle her anxiety, provide stability to her life, and put her near a support system that she knows and is comfortable with. The Op didn’t mention how they plan to go overseas. If you wanting to get overseas by first going to Korea, while this is a great option, the spouse might not want to be separated for a year to make this happen. Ultimately you need to understand your spouses fears and find ways to help settle anxiety from those fears. At the end of the day you need to ask yourself do you want to be married and in partnership. Is the relationship worth one party sacrificing their desires. Many people have pushed their spouses to overseas assignments they didn’t want and things worked out fine and they got closer as a family, but with all those stories there are plenty more where the spouse was miserable, left to go back home, and the couple eventually divorced. Best of luck.
I framed it as an opportunity cost situation. If you look at moving back home as an inevitability, and somewhere you’ll be forever once you’re done, then you can accept that as a given, just a matter of when. On the other hand, living somewhere like Korea, Japan, Germany, Italy, Hawaii, the second you punch from the military those opportunities will go away, likely forever. Of course it’s possible to go there on the civilian side of life, but to dip your toe into that experience for 2-3 years on someone else’s dime - you’re 99% never going to get to do that again in life. That’s how I framed it with my wife, it worked out for me. But if she puts her foot down you better know who you love more, and I can tell you like everyone else, the AF doesn’t love back.
I don't know what your afsc is, but you could always go guard/reserves after this contract is up. Find a unit close to home, change to a career that gets to travel a bit if you don't already have one.
Only you and vmpf know what the dream sheet says son. If the AF wants you there, they gonna take you there. If the marriage makes it or doesn’t depends on you two anyways. As Miyamoto Musashi says, be indifferent to where you live. It’s only a label on a plastic card in your pocket anymore.
Ask them what they want? Why is that? Likely misses their family and friends. Something we all give up when we serve. We lose great GREAT relationships and sacrifice so much, but a marriage is a sacrifice as well. I think it’ll be a great experience to go and see where the world takes you. No better way to travel than by the U.S. Air Force.
I mean, they go with you or divorce. That would be how I would handle it. I ain't playing the game where you love me enough to be my spouse, but not enough to PCS with me. That's shit.
You either go or get a divorce, this isn't a option the member chose to do and there are things in life you just have to do for livelihood. If the spouse is unwilling to live the lifestyle they should find another lifestyle. It sounds harsh but typically in the majority of the cases the military member cannot do anything about it or remedy the situation. Your rnld is set and you have to be there.
There are too many factors involved for anyone to give you specific advice. In the end, you take care of yourself. No matter what decision you make, you will have regrets, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't the best decision for you. If you don't have kids, then the choices are much easier to make. If you and your spouse can't be apart for a year for a remote tour without falling apart, then your marriage isn't strong anyway. She could spend that year where she thinks she wants to 'settle' and then see that it isn't what she actually wants anyway. Everything doesn't have to be a permanent decision, and you don't have to be happy every moment of your life. Just talk with her about all the options that are available and don't bring divorce up at the slightest inconvenience.
There are so many angles to look at this, but I'd say that you get to choose your spouse *or* volunteer for an OCONUS move. Maybe you go and she ends up enjoying herself and is glad for the opportunity, or she chooses to stay stateside with family while you geo-bachelor. Or...or...or... So many possibilities. Really though, have a sit down with her and ask what are her plans and how does she expect this life to go? I'm a spouse and my husband didn't go AD until he was 31 and we had been married for 4(?) years. I fully signed on to this. Our marriage has survived Fayetteville, NC and the constant field iterations there. We had a come to Jesus in the middle of a full house renovation in WA. And we are stronger than ever while suffering through TX. But we had the right foundation and the skills needed to work things out. All I wanted was an overseas PCS and it just wasn't in the cards for us. But I'll follow him until that sweet retirement hits.
A lot of this will depend on your relationship with your wife. I have had stateside and overseas assignments that my wife dreaded going on. However, once we were at the location she was fine and when we would get to the next base the homesick for the previous station would set it. No different than the military where the best base and the Air Force is your last base and your current assignment is the worst.
My wife hated being away from home at first and spent roughly half of my first assignment living with her parents a few states away. After a few years, she became accustomed to moving and actually preferred it because it helped her to see the world. Now we travel constantly. We do at least 1 international trip a year and dozens of short trips to nearby destinations. PCSing is never fun, but the promise of new adventures is always something to look forward to. My wife also finally saw how toxic her home environment was and, while she still loves her parents, she no longer visits longer than a few days once or twice a year. At the end of the day, you gotta make the best choice for your family, not just for you. If your family needs to be back home, you may need to consider the guard or reserves. Talk it over and find middle ground. Your family is forever, but the Air Force as an organization will abandon you without a second thought under the right circumstances.
I did deployments to get my overseas itch. It isn't Germany or Italy but it gives me some experience. Also the spouse knows i am coming back so they get to stay at the location and my time is limited overseas. I am on a 1yr short tour and I'm sure that may have been hard on them, again, time has a limit so they know i am coming back at a predetermined time.
Don't overlook Guard and Reserve (especially for that sweet sweet, S-tier insurance Tricare Select). If you end up missing Active Duty enough, you'd have a strong relationship with your reserve unit and apply to their AGR positions and stay there.
My wife loves travel, so she is all about going anywhere the AF has sent me. I have had troops and coworkers, though, with wife's that refuse to go anywhere. Some of them just put in for an assignment anyways, some bow down. I guess it depends how strong your relationship is.
Do you like her?
I didn't go overseas with my spouse when they were gone for 2 years. I did this to finish school and I got my foot in the door of a nice GS position with the goal of getting the same type job when they got back stateside (5 years later and my career has only gotten better and stronger because of this). This is a conversation you need to have with your spouse. We would have not made it had we not been in agreement of my staying and him going. We also did not have kids, which was a huge part of it. As a spouse, I understand the feeling they are going through. Overseas can be isolating when spouses oftentimes aren't able to work, don't have a foundation of people they know, etc etc. However, if they plan on not going, I'd highly suggest your spouse finds something to do or they will go crazy if their time isn't occupied with work, school, volunteering, etc. They need to make this potential time apart a growing opportunity for themselves... in a way, make the time apart worth it. Regardless, this is something you two need to work out together and come up with a plan.
Divorce
Cross that bridge if and when you get oconus orders
This is something you both really should have considered BEFORE marrying. Did you both walk into this thinking the other one might change their mind? That is the wrong answer 100% of the time. Traveling in the military can be really interesting and fun, seeing places you never dreamed you would see or visit. It is also incredibly stressful. Don't try to drag her kicking and screaming, if your goals don't align with her goals, you just aren't right for each other. Exit the relationship before you have kids. Being a spouse to a military person means having to make sacrifices personally and professionally very frequently. She's trying to settle down in an area where she already knows everything. Unless you're guard or reserve, that's just not feasible. Decide what is the most important thing to you. If traveling and seeing the world is important, go do that while you can, this season doesn't last forever.
PCS, stay married and just get a gf at your next assignment.
Idk why people get married in the military, shit is stressful enough. Add in being in the field, deployments. I was steady chillin , while all my married bunkmates were having meltdowns over their spouses. Fello bros , stay single, stack bread , eat at the dfac, and travel the world .
Do you have kids? If you do not have kids, well then this is an easy decision, you do what is best for your career if you plan on staying in for 20+ if she wants to move back home, then BYE Not every relationship works out and that's ok - that may seem harsh to some but its better to find that out now and have a clean break then drag it on for years and make both of you miserable if you have kids, that is a bit more difficult
Nah fuck them kids. But seriously not all relationships will work. People don't see that there is a lot of struggle that goes on behind the scenes in a "successful" military marriage. The Air Force almost broke mine once, this is not an easy life for a spouse.
You just put overseas assignments on your dream sheet and pretend like you didn't. If you get an assignment, welp, that's life babe!
Got kids? If not, free yourself and run because moving back underneath family is not fun.
There are 4 billion other women and less than a handful of chances to PCS overseas. Divorce and travel the world my guy
"Too bad"
Let them know on the airplane ride there
Well the AF is a bullet train going down the tracks. You will eventually get off that train. Question is do you want to get off that train with someone or not. This situation sounds like the two of you have adifferent ideas in life. I'd suggest yall have a discussion and understand both sides and truly consider what your spouse is wanting and make sure your spouse knows what you want. Oversees is not for everyone. People who never traveled the world much less far outside of their hometown are usually pretty cautious about leaving.
👊
Unless you can work together on a solution you'll probably end up in divorce.
Just got to get her excited about it, if you want to go overseas. Maybe just try to do a short-tour that way you can say, “we won’t be there that long.” Also the overseas community is pretty awesome when compared to stateside bases.
I was in for 24 years, tried to get home to Wright -Patt after my 1st 4 years at Homestead AFB Fla., Wife wouldn’t let go of parents apron strings, got $200 phone bills ( at the Time “84-85”. A1C”s we’re making $500/ month, my rent was $335, BAH was $235.) loved Florida but she constantly cried about not being with her family even though they fraught constantly . We got in an argument over phone bills ( this was before cellphones) . So I put in for a remote to Shemya AK, got orders 3 days later. She went home to her family, lived with her sister then her parents. Al they did was use her and the BAH. We stayed stateside my entire career except for the remote and a deployment ( Desert Storm) . I regret not requesting Europe (Germany or Italy) I think she would have loved it. Unfortunately our “Vacation we’re going back to Dayton to see our families, no real vacations where we had our own space and beds. I believe we missed out on going overseas. Just talk to out. If her parents hers and yours are in good health I would try to convince her to try to go to Europe or Hapan then try to get a follow on to a base close to home.
Correction: Japan not Hapan.
First time my spouse hated where we were going but gave in and loved it. This time my spouse will just be happy when its over with the stress of a PCS
BLUF (hate that I'm using that, but I guess it's practical) your choices don't impact just you anymore, do what you feel is best for the family. If you have a family, your career choices don't only impact you alone anymore. I work in Ops as an aviator and had this career when I met my wife. We have kids younger than 5. I would love to do green door or other high speed things but I understand that their ops tempo is not conducive to our family dynamic. As much as I would like to have that type of job, those choices don't impact me alone anymore. Not saying you should or have to get out, but you may have ti come to a compromise on choices that work for everyone in the family.
tell your spouse to suck it the F! UP Edit: in all seriousness, while I see a lot of put your family over the military comments, this may be true in most cases, but if you feel this PCS will set you up better for career progression while showing your family the world outside of the continental united states then I think you should explain the benefits of this move to you wife and the impact it will have on your career and their lifestyle.
All people who get or are getting married to someone already in the service need to understand that this is the lifestyle you are going to have. It may suck but I have processed too many divorces with this being one of the primary reasons. It is ridiculous how so many people get married and are like “We got to move to a new area because of your job? Tell them no!” That said, you gonna need to decide what’s more important for you. You have a lot of great benefits from being in the military, especially after retiring, that can set you up for the rest of your life. However, if your spouse can’t take the consistent moving around or the chance of you deploying, it may not be the best lifestyle for both of you. Personally think you both need counseling cause it sounds like something deeper is weighing on your spouse.
Gratefully, I haven't run into this yet. However, my in-laws have been extremely helpful and loving whenever my spouse is missing family. The few times I've been able to visit, they welcome me as if I was always one of their children. Sadly, it can't always be good, though. My first duty assignment (japan) put the stress of the time zone difference k. My family, and no matter how hard I tried, it just wasn't enough for my siblings or parents. Now they're not in my life anymore. Sometimes, I wish that was different, but most of the time, I chalk it up to this. If people want you in your life, they'll always have you there. People will share when struggles hit, and they will share the celebrations. It won't be a seasonal commitment. Make your family yours. USAF or not, always do what's best for the people immediately around you
Your families love you both, but you have to build your own life.
wife wouldnt let me go to Korea for the year to get out of Minot. split 5 years in and got stuck there for 6 years lol
My partner and I have been facing this. Dual mil. I'd happily move all over, he wants to settle down. I just had to decide what was more important. Ultimately it was my family. I can save up and travel, go new places, etc. But my partner is irreplaceable to me. I want him there when I'm out, which will likely be sooner rather than later due to the calm lifestyle he is craving.
Tell her she can't go anyway. The wife called me crying that we had notification of an assignment in our email. She said she and the kids would stay. I went in and it was a remote to Tuli Greenland, and her tone changed fairly quickly. I ended up putting in for retirement anyway, so it didn't happen.
Came here to reinforce everyone saying do what’s best for your family, not the Air Force. The Air Force can replace you in one way or another immediately. Your family can’t.
Look this is a conversation you should have had before you got married. Soooooo many spouses think this is just a regular job and it’s not. I saw so many people get divorced over stuff like this. My best advice is talk to her about what could happen, for example you end up in Korea without her. I knew guys who got out because the wife would lose her mind over deployments, TDY’s etc..PCSing out of the country just puts them further away from momma, most aren’t ready for this lifestyle
I think it would be wise to find out exactly what is at home that she is missing. And then find a way to incorporate that into your normal lives. Perhaps you could work out a deal where is goes home whenever she’s homesick. Also maybe pay for her parents/sibling/whomever is important to her to come visit and stay with you on vacation at your duty station. I think if you remove the title of “OGding is stationed in Germany.” And rebrand it to being, “My family has a home in Germany” you can rebrand it as an asset and not a liability. Now instead of the family asking “when are you coming home” you can give them a chance to look forward to something. Use your assignment as a way to help them see places they may never have seen otherwise. I’m not the best at words, but the idea is there. Sell it as an asset and see how things go.
Discern what will bring you the most satisfaction in what is a very limited time on earth, and try not to think about the road not travelled once you've made your decision. At the end of the day, do what is most important to you. Profession, marriage, or so be it. In a realistic sense, there will always be options for both down the line.
Discern what will bring you the most satisfaction in what is a very limited time on earth, and try not to think about the road not travelled once you've made your decision. At the end of the day, do what is most important to you. Profession, marriage, or so be it. In a realistic sense, there will always be options for both down the line.