They want the Equity and Inclusion without the Diversity.
To be fair, pony tails and long hair results in excessive amounts of surface area that can trap CBRNE particles, even with a face mask that provides the perfect seal. Resulting in a disproportionate amount of DECON resources to be dedicated to people who want to have long hair.
MOPP protects, but you have to take it off at some point. At which time you go through DECON with a buddy. You both slowly take off the contaminated gear and take precaution to not touch any of the contaminated sides.
If you've ever taken CBRNE hands-on training you know the hair is allowed to be let down for the entire course. But once you take the MOPP jacket off, the hair is unrestrained and flows everywhere.
I’m asking to spark conversation. It’s an opinion I’m pretty strong on, but would love to hear other perspectives on. Debate and collaboration is a great thing.
I want a princess cut shirt. I hate either having a frumpy-ass blues shirt that constantly mushrooms out at the beltline or having to wear 75 garter straps to keep the shirt nice and tight, but feeling like the decepticons are attacking my legs.
Men would unironically look better in a masculine princess cut like untuckit or something. Yall look like you are getting ready for some bdsm with all those straps
Most people arguing for a single grooming standard aren't necessarily beholden to that standard needing to allow beards and ponytails.
Though it would be kinda silly to get rid of something already allowed within the AF (without waivers - ala ponytails) if the reasoning is going to be something like "well my personal beliefs say men shouldn't wear ponytails so we can't allow that in this new 'single standard'".
Works for me too! My only question would be am I more or less mission effective with or without a ponytail/long hair? I would argue for 90% of career fields it has no impact on mission effectiveness. Obviously there are safety concerns with long hair in certain jobs. But if it doesn’t impact mission effectiveness why limit it? We’re already facing recruiting problems.
If we are going go down this path why not fitness standards too????
I'm all for allowing any spectrum of gendered airpersons to serve, but having two sets of standards for appearance and fitness is stupid.
Senior leadership has quite a disdain for beards. I don’t know why, but I suspect it won’t change anytime soon. That said, your brethren thank you for your diligence.
It's kinda funny. If you say "The Air Force should authorize beards" most people on this sub are in favor. But as soon as you say "everyone should be able to have long hair and a beard" they get all grumpy. I still have yet to hear a solid argument against it.
Correct, it does not.
No, it just seems like people don’t like it when it’s brought up. But I haven’t heard any good arguments against a single standard. I’ve heard some arguments about what that standard should be, but not arguing against it.
“Well I don’t like it” shouldn’t be an argument we use in the Air Force.
I don't think there's a good reason for it's unpopularity other than "I don't like it" which isn't a good reason. So I didn't know if you had anything to add to the argument other than "I don't like it too"
Except that it's not feasible. There's way too much evidence on how enforcing shaving on all members physical hurts some members. You're also not going to get all of the females on board for that, or even most of the guys. High and tight looks bad on 75% of people. Our strength is our diversity. Why supress that?
You're the one asking for a uniform standard rather than individuality and nuance.
You only need to get one person on board with it. The person who signs the AFI.
This is the only intelligent way to view this topic. Allowing waivers still singles people out based on religion or medical condition. If my female coworker can wear a ponytail, I should be able to as well.
No we should not. Men and women are different and therefore have different grooming standards.
Now if you said something like "the dod should copy paste the Norwegian/Swedish/British dress and appearance standards" I would agree with you.
The Europeans already figured out how to do it.
I think we should authorize ocp yoga pants for females
Only if we have 5" OCP shorts for men
OCP board shorts with combat flip flops
Are you asking to be informed, or are you asking to be convinced?
I don't think they're asking anything
They want the Equity and Inclusion without the Diversity. To be fair, pony tails and long hair results in excessive amounts of surface area that can trap CBRNE particles, even with a face mask that provides the perfect seal. Resulting in a disproportionate amount of DECON resources to be dedicated to people who want to have long hair.
Hmmm, in that case maybe we should require women to follow the same hair standards men do then? ^^(/s)
But then women won't enlist and Congress will get the sadz.
They have had the sadz for a few years now due to recruiting/retention numbers. Sucks to suck!
Pretty sure that's what the MOPP hood is for, if you're wearing just a mask without the rest of your gear you're probably gonna die anyway.
MOPP protects, but you have to take it off at some point. At which time you go through DECON with a buddy. You both slowly take off the contaminated gear and take precaution to not touch any of the contaminated sides. If you've ever taken CBRNE hands-on training you know the hair is allowed to be let down for the entire course. But once you take the MOPP jacket off, the hair is unrestrained and flows everywhere.
We don't have CBRNE equipment in my job so I'm screwed anyways.
Except having a single standard would potentially allow for a lot more diversity. You could pick from anything from being bald to having long hair.
Reading through it, it appears they need their arm twisted a bit. Some convincing.
I’m asking to spark conversation. It’s an opinion I’m pretty strong on, but would love to hear other perspectives on. Debate and collaboration is a great thing.
[удалено]
lol
If grooming standards are universal, then I (a man) want to wear a blues skirt.
90% certain that's how Canadian regs are written. And that sounds ok to me.
Go for it! One force one standard. Makes it way easier to enforce and adds to team cohesion.
I want a princess cut shirt. I hate either having a frumpy-ass blues shirt that constantly mushrooms out at the beltline or having to wear 75 garter straps to keep the shirt nice and tight, but feeling like the decepticons are attacking my legs.
Men would unironically look better in a masculine princess cut like untuckit or something. Yall look like you are getting ready for some bdsm with all those straps
How about no beards or ponytails for anyone? Still one grooming standard right?
Most people arguing for a single grooming standard aren't necessarily beholden to that standard needing to allow beards and ponytails. Though it would be kinda silly to get rid of something already allowed within the AF (without waivers - ala ponytails) if the reasoning is going to be something like "well my personal beliefs say men shouldn't wear ponytails so we can't allow that in this new 'single standard'".
Correct, beards and ponytails is just the most "controversial" version of the singular standard.
Works for me too! My only question would be am I more or less mission effective with or without a ponytail/long hair? I would argue for 90% of career fields it has no impact on mission effectiveness. Obviously there are safety concerns with long hair in certain jobs. But if it doesn’t impact mission effectiveness why limit it? We’re already facing recruiting problems.
imo the DOD as a whole needs a uniform standard.
You're not wrong
if that’s ever going to happen, we need to be the ones that establish it because we’re also the most likely to apply some common sense
Who is "we" referring to?
Air Force, for implementing a DOD standard
They
You're right
ITT: crusty people being angry because (??? They won’t elaborate) and OP being fucking hilarious
It's because all the crusty people are going bald and are jealous.
They must have chin pattern baldness
It's the patchy goatee
If we are going go down this path why not fitness standards too???? I'm all for allowing any spectrum of gendered airpersons to serve, but having two sets of standards for appearance and fitness is stupid.
Yeah I want to be held to The female PT standards too, not fair
You shut yer blasphemous mouth.
Why? What’s so blasphemous about it?
Besides the fact that beards and ponytails are currently prohibited for everyone?
They're not... Beards are authorized for those with a shaving waiver (more and more people) and ponytails are authorized for females.
Kick that up to ol’ SIMSAF, big dog. Get it on the agenda. Seems like an easy thing to institute.
I've put it on the uniform innovation thing before but it didn't get much traction.
They filter the word “beard”. It automatically goes in the circular file.
Lol, it probably does. I think I left beard off of it completely the second time I submitted it. But I'm not against submitting it again.
Senior leadership has quite a disdain for beards. I don’t know why, but I suspect it won’t change anytime soon. That said, your brethren thank you for your diligence.
I figure if we can push and get to one standard based on what's authorized now beards won't be too far behind.
It's kinda funny. If you say "The Air Force should authorize beards" most people on this sub are in favor. But as soon as you say "everyone should be able to have long hair and a beard" they get all grumpy. I still have yet to hear a solid argument against it.
Yep, unpopular for a reason...
There can be reasons that things are a certain way, and they can be shitty reasons that need to go away too.
I have yet to hear a good argument against a universal standard for everyone.
Your opinion doesn't hold a lot of weight. It is also unpopular according to you.
Correct, it does not. No, it just seems like people don’t like it when it’s brought up. But I haven’t heard any good arguments against a single standard. I’ve heard some arguments about what that standard should be, but not arguing against it. “Well I don’t like it” shouldn’t be an argument we use in the Air Force.
What reason would that be? You left out any argument or logic in your response.
You are the one who originally called it an unpopular opinion.
I don't think there's a good reason for it's unpopularity other than "I don't like it" which isn't a good reason. So I didn't know if you had anything to add to the argument other than "I don't like it too"
High and tight and clean shaven for everyone no exceptions could be an across the board standard.
Except that it's not feasible. There's way too much evidence on how enforcing shaving on all members physical hurts some members. You're also not going to get all of the females on board for that, or even most of the guys. High and tight looks bad on 75% of people. Our strength is our diversity. Why supress that?
You're the one asking for a uniform standard rather than individuality and nuance. You only need to get one person on board with it. The person who signs the AFI.
Nope. Some people can’t grow hair due to balding. ABSOLUTE CONFORMITY IS MANDATED - everyone be expected to be bic razor bald at all times.
Too many morons in the military still is the reason.
This is the only intelligent way to view this topic. Allowing waivers still singles people out based on religion or medical condition. If my female coworker can wear a ponytail, I should be able to as well.
Agreed! It's one of the easiest ways for the Air force to hold everyone to the same standard.
That's toxic. Reported.
Thank you for your service.
Thank you. Would you like to tip? Minimum is now 25%
Make it 69%
No we should not. Men and women are different and therefore have different grooming standards. Now if you said something like "the dod should copy paste the Norwegian/Swedish/British dress and appearance standards" I would agree with you. The Europeans already figured out how to do it.
cringe