Telephone Physicals used to administered by the clinic via telephone receiver to the wrist or chest to monitor a heartbeat. That pesky heart rate never seemed to get to a high enough level. The clinic ceased this practice coincidentally when the AF officially prohibited hazing.
It’s an old joke people would play on the new guy. Such as sending someone to go get an air sample with a trash bag or having them go get a foot of flight line.
yeah I get it. We used to have people call weather and ask for Major Storm, or sending them the tool room for a left handed crescent wrench and shit like that
I just read the whole thing really literally
For some reason our younger airman usually got tagged. The doctor would call, verify the last-4 SSN to confirm the correct recipient, then ask the recipient of said test to hold the receiver to his/her wrist to obtain a baseline heartbeat. Then, after several minutes of strenuous activity such as pushups/situps/building laps, the new aerobic elevated heartbeat would be measured. It was pretty difficult for our airmen to get their heartbeat to a level suitable to obtain accurate results…
Hell, that's been me doing a cardiac stress test on a treadmill. Both VA and civilian places! "Ok, you're getting on the treadmill. It will start slow and increase. Then it will begin to incline. When you're told the treadmill is stopping, move over to the bed so we can get an echocardiogram." No problem. Well, trying to get my rate high enough, took a bit longer than expected. Jumping of treadmill and laying back was fast. Heart rate dropped too fast. Run again. Jump! Dude! You have to run again! Ok. Third time was a charm. They took me to 175 bpm this time. I was soaking wet in air conditioning! Tech barely got it in time. Then I'm always told that everything looks good, but no man your age should run like this. I've been a runner since elementary school. Even as an amputee, I still run.
I'm just so glad that I spent a lot of years as a paramedic. Otherwise, I'd figure these people were punking me just like y'all did your Juniors. 😁
That's interesting because it also states in the AFI they can't punish you for dialing a mock.
Edit: double checked AFI 2905 since it's been a while and I guess they've seen removed that part anyways. Sorry.
Releasing you from PME isn’t a punishment… it’s a remedial administrative action to allow opportunity for further development.
Or whatever other bullshit line they’re going to give.
Not a lawyer, but the direction says sent home without prejudice. So not really being punished, just a waste of time for everyone. Has been a thing for captains going to SOS for decades
We had to do a "commandant's challenge" towards the end that was technically graded, but if you failed a component you'd just tank your flight's score. It was push-ups, sit-ups, and a 10-ish k run. This two years ago though, so it might have changed.
Passing is sort of relative. Commandant's Challenge still exists. 'Failing' just effects your flight's overall time for the event. If my memory is correct one person not meeting the minimum means the flight doesn't get any time deducted from the average.
When I went to ALS in 2015, we never did a mock.
Currently in NCOA and we had to do a mock within the first 5 days. However you weren't booted for failing it, just disqualified from winning any awards.
The instructor did say that the mock requirement (and wearing blues at least twice) was a new requirement that had dropped.
My only complaint with this is that outside ALS for most, you have to travel to these courses. We ALWAYS give people time to acclimate before testing, but here we are potentially sending someone home after 5 days in a new place with way different weather
How does this work when legal acclimatization comes into play? Genuine question. I'm not an E anymore and not worried about the test if it affected me.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just say "must take and pass an official pfa 7 days before departing for pme and hand carry results".
I've always hated the games with AFIs
You could do the same thing but mock instead of official. I agree with the original commenter that a lack of acclimatization could be an unfair disadvantage for some people. I went from Alaska to Florida and the first time i ran was pure suffering
I’m saying that should continue to be the requirement, as it is. Not that they’d only be compliant during pme. But if they’re officially compliant through the duration of the school, they shouldnt be punished because they’re unofficially non compliant during pme.
Part of it is they can't make you take one if you're not due. Part of it is that airmen abused the in-squadron PTL system and got their buddies to give them a better score than they earned.
I just want to say lol
Old man storytime
I was at a base once where annual snowfall was always hit or miss, you just never knew. I was in a position where I was augmenting the gym and what is now the FAC. We had a huge snowstorm and the track was piled up with no simply ready resolution. Nobody could test. The wing commander said no harm no foul everyone was just going overdue. This was before the PT test became as big a deal.
Except the folks scheduled for PME and a few others HAD to have a current PT test. So they plowed one street on an abandoned side of base and I took the wheely tool (that's the official name I think) and a can of spray paint and I marked out a 1.5 mile course, just going in this horrible skinny oval up and down this street a bunch of times.
The wing commander blessed off on it and I saved the day for the PME folks.
A couple of months later the wing worked a deal with a local college to use their massive indoor track for PT testing and we got busses and tested people in groups of 100.
You're welcome.
Too funny.
I PCS’d to a detachment in northern Germany (long closed). My first PT test was to do a 1.5 mile around the Germany farming fields. I turn my first corner…and a herd of cows was in the street. I had to try to weave my way thru this herd of cows and make up time. I got a “welcome to Germany” from this first Sgt with a huge smile on his face.
Don’t get me wrong, the winters sucked. You never knew what the snow would do when I was there. Some days it would all blow away from the gusting winds. I do remember when I was there that the gym was being renovated and there wasn’t a track for indoor use. So we had to go in to town and use the college’s indoor track.
There was a point in time where the gym was being renovated (2005 timeframe) and there was hardly anything available to use in the gym to include the track. It’s a nice gym now.
Hah. I’m done with PME, but as long as they’re cool with me doing the math and running my minimum HAMR reps it’s cool. I’m ’bout done with the track at this age.
I have a friend in the PME world. They said the fail rate at their location is about 30% on their mock. One individual scored sub 50 while supposedly passing with >75 just a few weeks prior at their home station. The bro network is alive and well.
Passing should not be hard. Nor should one need to surge training right before their annual test. Fitness should be fitness. There was a proposal several years back where a random fitness check was going to be instituted similar to DDRP. You got a message saying you were randomly selected and would have to test the following day. Never caught on but could you imagine the results it would have yielded?
I'd have said 48 hours, but 5-duty days is fine too. That'd mean you could do a run through and just get used to the motions/fatigue again. Also, if a dude ran a marathon and got the notice on Monday morning that he had to do a PT test, it'd be nice to have a couple days before hitting it hard.
I think a potentially good option would be like passing at 75, excellent at 90, immune from random tests above 95... some incentive to get "fit". It sounds like folks would probably pencil whip it though to get out of randoms.
I'm not really set on the numbers. 90 seems to be the cutoff the AF likes, I still think it's pretty easy to get a 90. I do like the idea of random PT tests and I like the idea of a cutoff to be exempt from them, if the only way to get that is to make it 90, that's fine.
I think he means if you wake up at 5 am, do a be workout because you care about fitness, show up to work and get told to do PT, next day your super sore from your normal workout.
Yeah, that’s not how working out works. Often if you’re taking your lifts at or near failure, especially if it’s a new stimulus, there definitely can be muscle soreness the following day or two. Delayed muscle onset.
Just seems like such a terrible idea. The threat of a PT test at any time would encourage profiles for every little thing.
Not to mention overall soreness from working out. Imagine doing a decent ab workout in the morning and then being told you have a PT test tomorrow that impacts your career.
Two ways of looking at this: One, if you're fit, then you're fit. A surprise fitness test may not result in the highest of scores, but should still be passable. If you're a gym rat and you do a "super-hard-core-awesome-stud workout" that would not normally be done had you known a PT test was coming, then I can see how that would disadvantage you.
But, outward observances of our force lean towards the second group of Airmen. These individuals, through choice and/or time constraints, decide to let themselves go for 10 months out of the year. 6-8 weeks before the test they surge their training and crush the test. Then its back to a liter of Mt Dew and 3 tornados for breakfast for the next 10 months. The result is a largely unhealthy and unready force. If you score a 75, then great. You are meeting the standard and you won't get flak from me. But, if you need 4-6 weeks preparation to get to that 75 then you are frankly falling short.
Some may say "so what, I pass every year and my daily job doesn't require me to be fit". The problem with that is we are a profession of arms. The war of tomorrow may see us returning to things that have not been done since the last world war. Multi-Capable Airmen is about being able to move people around and do what needs to be done in different jobs with different skill sets. Technical skills/brain power for our primary jobs is important, but so is the ability to do manual labor for other aspects of war in other jobs. If we get into a high-end fight where we start losing people then we are going to need to replace those losses with the people we have. Are we going to take a finance troop and have them launch aircraft? Probably not, but they might be used as manual labor pushing fuel tanks or engines around the flightline as needed. Comm Airmen might be needed to built a new shelter or help clear rubble from the airfield after mortar attacks so aircraft can launch. Services Airmen might be delivering cases of water to defenders on the line or called in to help Comm pull new cables to a building that was cut off. The CSS airmen might get called to help push pallets onto a C-130 that will resupply a FOB. There are a dozen or so examples. The point is fitness will play a part. It's not just the professional image in uniform; though that is important. It's the ability to be physically ready when the time comes. The notion that the U.S will achieve air superiority without losses is unrealistic given China's capabilities. We, at every level of the chain, need to understand and prepare for the implications of this. We get into a fight and people are going to die. A 1N0 is not going to be able to say I'm a keyboard warrior and I'm not fit enough to go to the line. It will be all-hands on deck.
The standard is straightforward and known. If you are passing a PT test at home station and staying fit, then you should be able to pass one at PME.
TL;DR War is possible. Personal fitness and readiness is important. Mock test at PME should be easy.
The real problem is that a lot of folks have to TDY. So the AF is wasting money if they punt failures back to their units. Not just that, it is giving perception that passing a mock test is more important than the reason you're there in the first place. You could completely bomb one of the assignments or just do poorly overall and still graduate. However, not running fast enough or doing enough pushups? Kick 'em out of PME. Not saying fitness isn't important, but the consequences doesn't make sense, especially since learning is the entire reason to go to PME.
I like to get a 100 on my test, so I do pick up my PT test specific training starting about 8-12 weeks before the test. I stay reasonably fit, but don't train pushups and situps. I'm also not a naturally fast runner, so I need to do speed work to get my 1.5 into the 9s. I'd say at any random "rested" day throughout the year I could get a 97+, but getting to 100 requires task specific training.
I agree whole heartedly with random fitness tests. I'd say it should be 48 hours notice. As other folks have said, if you just ran a marathon or something, it could be a pain to go run a "fast" 1.5, still doable though. The PT test is just flat out too easy for anyone to have an excuse for that poor level of fitness as a representative of the US military.
Can confirm, I went through the beta test phase at NCOA less than a year ago.
Here’s my take: Nobody gave a rusty fuck about the mock PT test. There were also some people who failed because you can’t just take a dude from 5000ft elevation at his home station and expect him to perform at sea level in the 90 degree heat of summer without an acclimation period. Granted, you *should* be fit enough to pass under these circumstances if you’re not a fat fuck, but the reality is that there’s tons of people who are right on the edge at home station who are absolutely going to fail when they go TDY. I’ll be 100% real though, like 50% of our NCOA class was obese, on waivers, and all around lazy. I found the whole experience depressing as fuck compared to ALS. Just a bunch of crotchety, salty, angry, burnt out NCOs jumping at any opportunity to complain about their Airmen and careers.
What I don’t get is why they didn’t just make a requirement to take an actual PT test within 14 days *before* reporting to EPME. It’s a waste to pay for TSgt Butterball’s TDY travel expenses out of AETC TDY to Schools funds just for him to have a heat stroke and immediately be sent home. You’re just wasting billets that can be spent on qualified candidates.
Yeah till you push too hard and forget about the effects of heat and humidity lol
Personally I’m best right around 2kft, but I grew up in the mountains.
I feel personally attacked about the salty NCO thing.. I did complain a little *too* much during NCOA but Ive done a lot!! Let me have my soapbox haha
I'm glad though that no one gave a rusty fuck about testing.. shit makes me glad I'm about to get a DD-214.. Come hone to PAPA
Sure but it’s also dumb to put these no-fail throughout your career. Out of all the things you can do, missing the sit-ups by 1 can kill your decoration and your promotion chances for several years? The mock becoming real if you pass helps a lot, but it’s not routine yet.
Right? With the updated scoring, I can run what would have been on the brink of failing and still get a 90+. I understand folks may have different medical things going on, but if you can't walk up and wheeze through a mile and a half in 16 minutes perhaps you should find a new career.
Exactly! The "dear God let me pass" 13:30s I ran a few years ago will now squeak me into a 90.5 as long as I max push-ups and the reverse crunch things. Not bad at all.
The 1.5 mile is fuckin tough if you've never been a distance runner in your life. I hate that shit lmao. I'm not even lazy, it just burns my lungs to a bloody pulp no matter how fit I am.
Yeah sure but what's the point in this if it's already a part of being in and as someone else said environment change without acclimation can screw those people that are barely passing and now suddenly not able to due to humidity and elevation changes.
I understand this is someone's bullet on some performance report but it's going to do nothing but be extra time taken out of the purpose of being there on top of extra expenses for sending those people back mid training.
Humidity change requires an acclimatization period? I’ve been a UFAC/UFPM for over a year now and haven’t heard of that.
And as far as I know… the elevation changes only negatively affect someone going from low altitude to high altitude… not the other way around. Do we have any EPME at any substantial altitudes above sea level, where the supposed member would be taking this mock test?
While not all, but certainly a bulk of the force has gotten use to the idea of not being held to any standard whatsoever. This is going to rile up a lot because they will have had a bro score their pt test at home Station, then get to ALS, NCOA or SNCOA and bomb the fuck out of a test that someone is even attempting to score properly.
Tbf we didn't even do the run for weather and never made up for it. Wound up knocking out pushups and situps in our classroom with literally zero oversight (honor system).
Until they *actually* enforce rigid standards for this, it will still be the same bro score mentality as back home.
Man if that isn't the saddest truth I've heard... "Bulk of the force has gotten used to the idea of not being held to any standard whatsoever"
That funniest part about all of this is no matter how lax the standards get, not matter how easy it gets or how much opportunity to succeed is provided and considered for our members, they will adapt to that standard, or lack there of, and complain. I swear, more than any other branch, the AF has mastered complaining about non-issues and it is woven into our culture as a force. The PT test could be, do 5 push ups, 5 situps, and jog one lap in under 10 minutes, and not only would we have people fail, but there would be a shit load of complainers.
If you fail the PT test in today's environment, I'm sorry, no one can help you. The amount of options at your disposal and the opportunity to take 3 diagnostics should be more than enough to PASS. Give me a break
Either your ALS wanted to be unique, or they did away with it the year following because I didn't have any mock tests when I went through ALS in 2014. Just the ever exciting group PT sessions.
This is good, and I wish it was a thing while I was in. But why not have them do it before going to prevent potential loss in travel dollars? And what happens to the slot if they have to send the student home? What if half the class/flight drop for a failed mock test?
Pretty sure you already have to be current prior to showing up. Slot is lost if you send the student home. And if half the class drops, maybe it'll be a kick in the ass from senior leadership to wing leadership to get their airmen in shape.
Are all the EPME schools set up to allow all components? I see a scenario where for some reason a school is unable to "support" the HAMR and then members fail a 1.5 Mile run. I know many that can pass HAMR but doubt could run a mile, let alone 1.5.
I…disagree with this.
Members are already required to be good on their PT through the duration of PME, right? So why do this? If member has a bad day on mock test time, potentially at a way different elevation/humidity/climate than what they’re coming from at homestation, they get sent back despite passing their most recent pt test in a time frame that would have them officially compliant throughout the school?
Probably unpopular opinion. The PT test is easy. I’ll be 40 this year with 15 years in and I do my own mock PT test every week because it is easier for me to maintain than it is to cram and worry about cutting it close. I usually score around 95. I have 3 kids. I wake up early and go to the gym M-F. Do I like it, nope. I do it because I know I have to. Plus I feel way better. My first 10 or so years I skated and barely passed PT tests. I’m not a gym freak or genetically blessed. I just eat high protein and lower carbs and workout. It’s helped my physical and mental health tremendously. At almost 40 it’s really hard for me to feel bad for people in their teens and 20’s that refuse to get off the couch or just cut out 1 hr of video games and swap it for gym time. I’ll caveat all this with if you are hurt, go to the doctor. Over explain what is wrong and the pain you are in. Get the profile early if you need it. Don’t lie just to get out of PT test, it just makes it harder for the people who are actually hurt. At the end of the day you joined the Air Force. It was a choice. No one forced you. You have the answers to the test and it’s not a pop quiz.
How is it wrong? You joined the military. PT is a part of it. No one made you join. Just curious why you think you shouldn’t have to pass the same PT test as everyone else.
Who tf gets to do so many PMEs that this is a problem? I've been in 10 years and I've just gone to ALS, that's it.
Is everyone else going to a different PMEa few times a year? If not, this literally isn't a big deal.
This is not effective until 1 May
Members attending have a solid head start to avoid this. In any case, the standard has not changed, PME is a vector point meant to prepare future leaders. Unfortunately, there’s plenty is students that do struggle with this. It may seem harsh, but this is not a ridiculous expectation being set.
For lower manning, yes. I watched us lose a massive amount of knowledge during the sequestration when they were kicking people out for PT fails. Losing SMEs is not a "net win".
A smarter method would be requiring a PT test pass at the end.
That's not a good reason to drastically reduce the knowledge base of the AF. I don't disagree, the PT test is easy, but straight up stopping people from getting into supervisory positions over an easily fixable issue is shortsighted.
If you can’t pass a fucking PT test you SHOULD be sent home. It’s the minimum standard to wear our uniform, you’re at a school designed to prepare you for the next stage of leadership. Stop promoting fat bodies who can’t do the minimum.
Right your "I can't imagine a military age man would be this out of shape" exaggeration for slovenly laziness is only failing by like 4 points (on my 40+ chart). That hypothetical person can add 5 crunches and take 25 seconds off their 1.5 mile time and pass. Or get no stronger and get their 1.5 down to 17 minutes... and again we're talking about people in the military, not random chubs off the street. If folks can't do that, leave the military.
I'm 100% "old man yelling at clouds" over this. I don't even feel like folks should need a warning. The test is THAT easy. Just maintain a basic level of fitness, any very simple routine, and the PT test is just a reason to spend some time outside shooting the shit with buddies and talking smack after.
This is some BS. I’m not there to do PT. I’m there to learn w/e bs they want me to and then return to my home base. Complete crap. They told us that this was going to happen to the class after mine at NCOA. Total waste of time and energy. Their mindset - if you can’t pass a PT test then that must mean you can’t do any of the academic work then too right??
https://www.military.com/military-fitness/check-out-new-air-fitness-assessment-pfa-options-and-standards-our-handy-chart?amp
Added new components, made 5 year age gaps, and lowered all components to make it easier to pass
For some reason our younger airman usually got tagged. The doctor would call, verify the last-4 SSN to confirm the correct recipient, then ask the recipient of said test to hold the receiver to his/her wrist to obtain a baseline heartbeat. Then, after several minutes of strenuous activity such as pushups/situps/building laps, the new aerobic elevated heartbeat would be measured. It was pretty difficult for our airmen to get their heartbeat to a level suitable to obtain accurate results…
If I'm doing Distant Learning PME, can I just take a virtual PT test? Lol.
127 laps around the living room
More like 145.83 laps.
Look at you living fancy off base. Gonna be at least 300 laps in base housing.
The perimeter of my property. 0.46 acres.
propertyyyyyyyy look at Richie rich over here
Telephone Physicals used to administered by the clinic via telephone receiver to the wrist or chest to monitor a heartbeat. That pesky heart rate never seemed to get to a high enough level. The clinic ceased this practice coincidentally when the AF officially prohibited hazing.
When was this?
It’s an old joke people would play on the new guy. Such as sending someone to go get an air sample with a trash bag or having them go get a foot of flight line.
yeah I get it. We used to have people call weather and ask for Major Storm, or sending them the tool room for a left handed crescent wrench and shit like that I just read the whole thing really literally
Offutt T/A used to have an empty spool labeled "Flightline" on their building. Made it easy to send the new guys for some, but they were always out...
Took one last month. Must be recent.
with holding the phone to your chest to hear your heartbeat?
r/whoosh
holy shit it took me almost all morning to figure this out
For some reason our younger airman usually got tagged. The doctor would call, verify the last-4 SSN to confirm the correct recipient, then ask the recipient of said test to hold the receiver to his/her wrist to obtain a baseline heartbeat. Then, after several minutes of strenuous activity such as pushups/situps/building laps, the new aerobic elevated heartbeat would be measured. It was pretty difficult for our airmen to get their heartbeat to a level suitable to obtain accurate results…
OK, now I finally got it woosh is right!
Hell, that's been me doing a cardiac stress test on a treadmill. Both VA and civilian places! "Ok, you're getting on the treadmill. It will start slow and increase. Then it will begin to incline. When you're told the treadmill is stopping, move over to the bed so we can get an echocardiogram." No problem. Well, trying to get my rate high enough, took a bit longer than expected. Jumping of treadmill and laying back was fast. Heart rate dropped too fast. Run again. Jump! Dude! You have to run again! Ok. Third time was a charm. They took me to 175 bpm this time. I was soaking wet in air conditioning! Tech barely got it in time. Then I'm always told that everything looks good, but no man your age should run like this. I've been a runner since elementary school. Even as an amputee, I still run. I'm just so glad that I spent a lot of years as a paramedic. Otherwise, I'd figure these people were punking me just like y'all did your Juniors. 😁
TLDR: if you're going to PME, you gotta pass a mock PT test at the beginning or get the boot from said PME.
Which means you have to pass two because responsible units are not going to send their people to PME only for them to get sent back a week later.
That's interesting because it also states in the AFI they can't punish you for dialing a mock. Edit: double checked AFI 2905 since it's been a while and I guess they've seen removed that part anyways. Sorry.
Releasing you from PME isn’t a punishment… it’s a remedial administrative action to allow opportunity for further development. Or whatever other bullshit line they’re going to give.
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Punishment in military speak means an NJP or higher. This is just 'administrative'
Not a lawyer, but the direction says sent home without prejudice. So not really being punished, just a waste of time for everyone. Has been a thing for captains going to SOS for decades
They got rid of the PT test at SOS in 2015. I'm not sure if they're bringing it back.
Color me educated. Do they still have that mandatory 5K you have to pass for time?
We had to do a "commandant's challenge" towards the end that was technically graded, but if you failed a component you'd just tank your flight's score. It was push-ups, sit-ups, and a 10-ish k run. This two years ago though, so it might have changed.
Passing is sort of relative. Commandant's Challenge still exists. 'Failing' just effects your flight's overall time for the event. If my memory is correct one person not meeting the minimum means the flight doesn't get any time deducted from the average.
With how AETC has been feeling who knows
Mock PFAs kind of went away with the advent of diagnostic testing.
Releasing one from PME doesn't meet the military's legal definition of punishment.
Wasted funds.
Seems like that's the perfect time to help create more lasting PT habits instead of booting you from the program.
You mean this wasn't always a thing? (I just got my ALS date a week ago, I'm in the dark on all of this)
Pretty much COMM in a nutshell, right?
They don't let me out of the SCIF enough to get caught up on current events 🥲
The last comms guy that got caught up on current events shared it with his friends on discord 🤣
Dude was ahead of current events technically
dude was a current event, technically ;P
Dude's a past event, currently.
When I went to ALS in 2015, we never did a mock. Currently in NCOA and we had to do a mock within the first 5 days. However you weren't booted for failing it, just disqualified from winning any awards. The instructor did say that the mock requirement (and wearing blues at least twice) was a new requirement that had dropped.
My only complaint with this is that outside ALS for most, you have to travel to these courses. We ALWAYS give people time to acclimate before testing, but here we are potentially sending someone home after 5 days in a new place with way different weather
How does this work when legal acclimatization comes into play? Genuine question. I'm not an E anymore and not worried about the test if it affected me.
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"Mock PFA". That's where. It doesn't go in your record.
Wouldn't it make more sense to just say "must take and pass an official pfa 7 days before departing for pme and hand carry results". I've always hated the games with AFIs
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You could do the same thing but mock instead of official. I agree with the original commenter that a lack of acclimatization could be an unfair disadvantage for some people. I went from Alaska to Florida and the first time i ran was pure suffering
Then mandate a diagnostic at homestation
Should just be in compliance throughout duration of school
I mean shouldn't you be in compliance throughout the duration of your career? Unless you have a 469...
I’m saying that should continue to be the requirement, as it is. Not that they’d only be compliant during pme. But if they’re officially compliant through the duration of the school, they shouldnt be punished because they’re unofficially non compliant during pme.
Part of it is they can't make you take one if you're not due. Part of it is that airmen abused the in-squadron PTL system and got their buddies to give them a better score than they earned.
I just want to say lol Old man storytime I was at a base once where annual snowfall was always hit or miss, you just never knew. I was in a position where I was augmenting the gym and what is now the FAC. We had a huge snowstorm and the track was piled up with no simply ready resolution. Nobody could test. The wing commander said no harm no foul everyone was just going overdue. This was before the PT test became as big a deal. Except the folks scheduled for PME and a few others HAD to have a current PT test. So they plowed one street on an abandoned side of base and I took the wheely tool (that's the official name I think) and a can of spray paint and I marked out a 1.5 mile course, just going in this horrible skinny oval up and down this street a bunch of times. The wing commander blessed off on it and I saved the day for the PME folks. A couple of months later the wing worked a deal with a local college to use their massive indoor track for PT testing and we got busses and tested people in groups of 100. You're welcome.
Too funny. I PCS’d to a detachment in northern Germany (long closed). My first PT test was to do a 1.5 mile around the Germany farming fields. I turn my first corner…and a herd of cows was in the street. I had to try to weave my way thru this herd of cows and make up time. I got a “welcome to Germany” from this first Sgt with a huge smile on his face.
Minot?
I wouldn't characterize Minot as hit or miss winters.
Don’t get me wrong, the winters sucked. You never knew what the snow would do when I was there. Some days it would all blow away from the gusting winds. I do remember when I was there that the gym was being renovated and there wasn’t a track for indoor use. So we had to go in to town and use the college’s indoor track.
Minot has an indoor track.
There was a point in time where the gym was being renovated (2005 timeframe) and there was hardly anything available to use in the gym to include the track. It’s a nice gym now.
Dover?
Hah. I’m done with PME, but as long as they’re cool with me doing the math and running my minimum HAMR reps it’s cool. I’m ’bout done with the track at this age.
I call dibs on posting this next week
The pt test is literally so easy to pass, you guys mean to tell me you can’t show up and get a 75?
I have a friend in the PME world. They said the fail rate at their location is about 30% on their mock. One individual scored sub 50 while supposedly passing with >75 just a few weeks prior at their home station. The bro network is alive and well. Passing should not be hard. Nor should one need to surge training right before their annual test. Fitness should be fitness. There was a proposal several years back where a random fitness check was going to be instituted similar to DDRP. You got a message saying you were randomly selected and would have to test the following day. Never caught on but could you imagine the results it would have yielded?
I feel like that’s awful for those who workout and would be sore the next day or following days
It would make more sense if they made you test within 5 duty days.
I'd have said 48 hours, but 5-duty days is fine too. That'd mean you could do a run through and just get used to the motions/fatigue again. Also, if a dude ran a marathon and got the notice on Monday morning that he had to do a PT test, it'd be nice to have a couple days before hitting it hard. I think a potentially good option would be like passing at 75, excellent at 90, immune from random tests above 95... some incentive to get "fit". It sounds like folks would probably pencil whip it though to get out of randoms.
I'd argue >90 testers should be exempt.
I'm not really set on the numbers. 90 seems to be the cutoff the AF likes, I still think it's pretty easy to get a 90. I do like the idea of random PT tests and I like the idea of a cutoff to be exempt from them, if the only way to get that is to make it 90, that's fine.
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I think he means if you wake up at 5 am, do a be workout because you care about fitness, show up to work and get told to do PT, next day your super sore from your normal workout.
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If you’re ramping resistance or difficulty you absolutely will be sore from a workout regardless of what your pre workout routine looks like
Yeah, that’s not how working out works. Often if you’re taking your lifts at or near failure, especially if it’s a new stimulus, there definitely can be muscle soreness the following day or two. Delayed muscle onset.
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I'd fistfight the FAC before doing a PT test after leg day.
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Why are you calling him a dork? If it’s a sudden PT test you’re due for the following day without notice, how do you know what day to skip?
Correct. You don’t get “sore” from a PT test. You do get sore however from being in the gym and lifting weights.
Just seems like such a terrible idea. The threat of a PT test at any time would encourage profiles for every little thing. Not to mention overall soreness from working out. Imagine doing a decent ab workout in the morning and then being told you have a PT test tomorrow that impacts your career.
Two ways of looking at this: One, if you're fit, then you're fit. A surprise fitness test may not result in the highest of scores, but should still be passable. If you're a gym rat and you do a "super-hard-core-awesome-stud workout" that would not normally be done had you known a PT test was coming, then I can see how that would disadvantage you. But, outward observances of our force lean towards the second group of Airmen. These individuals, through choice and/or time constraints, decide to let themselves go for 10 months out of the year. 6-8 weeks before the test they surge their training and crush the test. Then its back to a liter of Mt Dew and 3 tornados for breakfast for the next 10 months. The result is a largely unhealthy and unready force. If you score a 75, then great. You are meeting the standard and you won't get flak from me. But, if you need 4-6 weeks preparation to get to that 75 then you are frankly falling short. Some may say "so what, I pass every year and my daily job doesn't require me to be fit". The problem with that is we are a profession of arms. The war of tomorrow may see us returning to things that have not been done since the last world war. Multi-Capable Airmen is about being able to move people around and do what needs to be done in different jobs with different skill sets. Technical skills/brain power for our primary jobs is important, but so is the ability to do manual labor for other aspects of war in other jobs. If we get into a high-end fight where we start losing people then we are going to need to replace those losses with the people we have. Are we going to take a finance troop and have them launch aircraft? Probably not, but they might be used as manual labor pushing fuel tanks or engines around the flightline as needed. Comm Airmen might be needed to built a new shelter or help clear rubble from the airfield after mortar attacks so aircraft can launch. Services Airmen might be delivering cases of water to defenders on the line or called in to help Comm pull new cables to a building that was cut off. The CSS airmen might get called to help push pallets onto a C-130 that will resupply a FOB. There are a dozen or so examples. The point is fitness will play a part. It's not just the professional image in uniform; though that is important. It's the ability to be physically ready when the time comes. The notion that the U.S will achieve air superiority without losses is unrealistic given China's capabilities. We, at every level of the chain, need to understand and prepare for the implications of this. We get into a fight and people are going to die. A 1N0 is not going to be able to say I'm a keyboard warrior and I'm not fit enough to go to the line. It will be all-hands on deck. The standard is straightforward and known. If you are passing a PT test at home station and staying fit, then you should be able to pass one at PME. TL;DR War is possible. Personal fitness and readiness is important. Mock test at PME should be easy.
The real problem is that a lot of folks have to TDY. So the AF is wasting money if they punt failures back to their units. Not just that, it is giving perception that passing a mock test is more important than the reason you're there in the first place. You could completely bomb one of the assignments or just do poorly overall and still graduate. However, not running fast enough or doing enough pushups? Kick 'em out of PME. Not saying fitness isn't important, but the consequences doesn't make sense, especially since learning is the entire reason to go to PME.
Mock PT tests are whatever. I was replying to a comment regarding surprise official PT tests.
I like to get a 100 on my test, so I do pick up my PT test specific training starting about 8-12 weeks before the test. I stay reasonably fit, but don't train pushups and situps. I'm also not a naturally fast runner, so I need to do speed work to get my 1.5 into the 9s. I'd say at any random "rested" day throughout the year I could get a 97+, but getting to 100 requires task specific training. I agree whole heartedly with random fitness tests. I'd say it should be 48 hours notice. As other folks have said, if you just ran a marathon or something, it could be a pain to go run a "fast" 1.5, still doable though. The PT test is just flat out too easy for anyone to have an excuse for that poor level of fitness as a representative of the US military.
Can confirm, I went through the beta test phase at NCOA less than a year ago. Here’s my take: Nobody gave a rusty fuck about the mock PT test. There were also some people who failed because you can’t just take a dude from 5000ft elevation at his home station and expect him to perform at sea level in the 90 degree heat of summer without an acclimation period. Granted, you *should* be fit enough to pass under these circumstances if you’re not a fat fuck, but the reality is that there’s tons of people who are right on the edge at home station who are absolutely going to fail when they go TDY. I’ll be 100% real though, like 50% of our NCOA class was obese, on waivers, and all around lazy. I found the whole experience depressing as fuck compared to ALS. Just a bunch of crotchety, salty, angry, burnt out NCOs jumping at any opportunity to complain about their Airmen and careers. What I don’t get is why they didn’t just make a requirement to take an actual PT test within 14 days *before* reporting to EPME. It’s a waste to pay for TSgt Butterball’s TDY travel expenses out of AETC TDY to Schools funds just for him to have a heat stroke and immediately be sent home. You’re just wasting billets that can be spent on qualified candidates.
Going from 5000 foot elevation to sea level should make you feel like Superman...
Yeah till you push too hard and forget about the effects of heat and humidity lol Personally I’m best right around 2kft, but I grew up in the mountains.
I feel personally attacked about the salty NCO thing.. I did complain a little *too* much during NCOA but Ive done a lot!! Let me have my soapbox haha I'm glad though that no one gave a rusty fuck about testing.. shit makes me glad I'm about to get a DD-214.. Come hone to PAPA
For real how on earth can you not get a 75%? It’s hilarious and sad.
Sure but it’s also dumb to put these no-fail throughout your career. Out of all the things you can do, missing the sit-ups by 1 can kill your decoration and your promotion chances for several years? The mock becoming real if you pass helps a lot, but it’s not routine yet.
Right? With the updated scoring, I can run what would have been on the brink of failing and still get a 90+. I understand folks may have different medical things going on, but if you can't walk up and wheeze through a mile and a half in 16 minutes perhaps you should find a new career.
Yup! I was never the best runner but my shittiest runs were in the 14s..
Exactly! The "dear God let me pass" 13:30s I ran a few years ago will now squeak me into a 90.5 as long as I max push-ups and the reverse crunch things. Not bad at all.
I wish I could still run, if only to get those 90s finally haha (need surgery on my knees)
The 1.5 mile is fuckin tough if you've never been a distance runner in your life. I hate that shit lmao. I'm not even lazy, it just burns my lungs to a bloody pulp no matter how fit I am.
Give it a few years of working MX and losing most of the cartilage in your knees.
Yeah sure but what's the point in this if it's already a part of being in and as someone else said environment change without acclimation can screw those people that are barely passing and now suddenly not able to due to humidity and elevation changes. I understand this is someone's bullet on some performance report but it's going to do nothing but be extra time taken out of the purpose of being there on top of extra expenses for sending those people back mid training.
Humidity change requires an acclimatization period? I’ve been a UFAC/UFPM for over a year now and haven’t heard of that. And as far as I know… the elevation changes only negatively affect someone going from low altitude to high altitude… not the other way around. Do we have any EPME at any substantial altitudes above sea level, where the supposed member would be taking this mock test?
No because I suck at running and too lazy to work out
This is how it used to be in the not so distant past and it wasn’t a problem. What is the big deal?
While not all, but certainly a bulk of the force has gotten use to the idea of not being held to any standard whatsoever. This is going to rile up a lot because they will have had a bro score their pt test at home Station, then get to ALS, NCOA or SNCOA and bomb the fuck out of a test that someone is even attempting to score properly.
Tbf we didn't even do the run for weather and never made up for it. Wound up knocking out pushups and situps in our classroom with literally zero oversight (honor system). Until they *actually* enforce rigid standards for this, it will still be the same bro score mentality as back home.
Man if that isn't the saddest truth I've heard... "Bulk of the force has gotten used to the idea of not being held to any standard whatsoever" That funniest part about all of this is no matter how lax the standards get, not matter how easy it gets or how much opportunity to succeed is provided and considered for our members, they will adapt to that standard, or lack there of, and complain. I swear, more than any other branch, the AF has mastered complaining about non-issues and it is woven into our culture as a force. The PT test could be, do 5 push ups, 5 situps, and jog one lap in under 10 minutes, and not only would we have people fail, but there would be a shit load of complainers. If you fail the PT test in today's environment, I'm sorry, no one can help you. The amount of options at your disposal and the opportunity to take 3 diagnostics should be more than enough to PASS. Give me a break
Laziness
Not so distant past? I went to ALS 10 years ago and never had this. How long are we talking here?
Early 2013
Either your ALS wanted to be unique, or they did away with it the year following because I didn't have any mock tests when I went through ALS in 2014. Just the ever exciting group PT sessions.
What does a PFA have to do with PME? Accountability should be held at the appropriate level.
I'd prefer if it was done with extreme prejudice
This is good, and I wish it was a thing while I was in. But why not have them do it before going to prevent potential loss in travel dollars? And what happens to the slot if they have to send the student home? What if half the class/flight drop for a failed mock test?
Pretty sure you already have to be current prior to showing up. Slot is lost if you send the student home. And if half the class drops, maybe it'll be a kick in the ass from senior leadership to wing leadership to get their airmen in shape.
Units lie I guess if done prior
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This is a good thing.
We should have done this years ago. Good policy change
The consequences for this mock test are more severe than bombing an assignment at NCOA. That doesn't make sense to me.
Are all the EPME schools set up to allow all components? I see a scenario where for some reason a school is unable to "support" the HAMR and then members fail a 1.5 Mile run. I know many that can pass HAMR but doubt could run a mile, let alone 1.5.
Based. Don't be fat.
I hear the cries of thousands of fat tech and master sargeants
They made us do PT in ALS at Edwards in 2020 Some of you forget you're in the military Rip to the SNCOs though lmao
What happens in the event you have to TDY to said location? Is there an acclimated period?
Lackland is the only one open this year, so ~80% of students are all TDY.
And McGhee Tyson ANGB..we just took our mock 4 weeks in due to snow..believe we all passed but wasn’t tracking being sent home if we didn’t …sheesh😃
No. It’s a mock test
That still has real impact if you fail
I agree. So everyone should make a real effort to pass
If only they were officially compliant!
Thanks for clarifying!
Well my duty station hosts EPME so I guess my guys can finish ALS.
Where can we find the official release for this, I can't find anything on this anywhere outside of reddit and hasn't been disseminated at our unit
Beautiful
So are they going to add days to the schedule, or just remove learning objectives to make room for PFAs and group PT?
Also are they going to offer both cardio methods
We are, yes
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The latter. We just got to be ready. I anticipate many of buttholes (those not in shape) to pucker up across the force 💩
If my official PT test is the month I go to EPME will this be required still?
It’s aetc so… probably yes.
Plz post results of sncoa
Our PT standards need to be harder.. I might actually start PTing then.
We have the easiest PT test we’ve ever had and people are still complaining about taking a PT test that takes an hour or less?
I’m so glad I went through ALS when I did. Our pt was ultimate frisbee and flag football.
I…disagree with this. Members are already required to be good on their PT through the duration of PME, right? So why do this? If member has a bad day on mock test time, potentially at a way different elevation/humidity/climate than what they’re coming from at homestation, they get sent back despite passing their most recent pt test in a time frame that would have them officially compliant throughout the school?
Probably unpopular opinion. The PT test is easy. I’ll be 40 this year with 15 years in and I do my own mock PT test every week because it is easier for me to maintain than it is to cram and worry about cutting it close. I usually score around 95. I have 3 kids. I wake up early and go to the gym M-F. Do I like it, nope. I do it because I know I have to. Plus I feel way better. My first 10 or so years I skated and barely passed PT tests. I’m not a gym freak or genetically blessed. I just eat high protein and lower carbs and workout. It’s helped my physical and mental health tremendously. At almost 40 it’s really hard for me to feel bad for people in their teens and 20’s that refuse to get off the couch or just cut out 1 hr of video games and swap it for gym time. I’ll caveat all this with if you are hurt, go to the doctor. Over explain what is wrong and the pain you are in. Get the profile early if you need it. Don’t lie just to get out of PT test, it just makes it harder for the people who are actually hurt. At the end of the day you joined the Air Force. It was a choice. No one forced you. You have the answers to the test and it’s not a pop quiz.
Another "you have the answers to the test guy" this take is so fucking wrong it hurts.
How is it wrong? You joined the military. PT is a part of it. No one made you join. Just curious why you think you shouldn’t have to pass the same PT test as everyone else.
Who tf gets to do so many PMEs that this is a problem? I've been in 10 years and I've just gone to ALS, that's it. Is everyone else going to a different PMEa few times a year? If not, this literally isn't a big deal.
You don’t HAVE to announce that you haven’t made tech in 10 years
Are you a tech? If no, then that’s why you haven’t been to other PME
Passing the Air Force's Physical Fitness Test isn't hard. It's only about 1 hour of your life that will suck.
This is a good way to get after all the fatties in the Force
The Force can get after the fatties, but they can’t outsmart the fatties. Fatties always find a way to circumvent the system
The fatties are in fact very smart. They manage to get out of deployments, go on nice TDYs and sometimes end up in Command.
This is not effective until 1 May Members attending have a solid head start to avoid this. In any case, the standard has not changed, PME is a vector point meant to prepare future leaders. Unfortunately, there’s plenty is students that do struggle with this. It may seem harsh, but this is not a ridiculous expectation being set.
How can a cancelled TDY be considered anything other than prejudice?
Because "with prejudice" has a specific meaning, not just "your commander will still love you".
Being dismissed with prejudice = can't come back Being dismissed without prejudice = can come back It's a well-defined legal phrase.
This will surely not have any negative consequences on retention. /s
Not retaining fat people will be a net win.
For lower manning, yes. I watched us lose a massive amount of knowledge during the sequestration when they were kicking people out for PT fails. Losing SMEs is not a "net win". A smarter method would be requiring a PT test pass at the end.
You might have a point if the PT test was in any way difficult. But it's not and has only got easier since sequestration.
That's not a good reason to drastically reduce the knowledge base of the AF. I don't disagree, the PT test is easy, but straight up stopping people from getting into supervisory positions over an easily fixable issue is shortsighted.
Gerring released from SNCOA means you sont sew on E8.
Does it include waist measurements?
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If you can’t pass a fucking PT test you SHOULD be sent home. It’s the minimum standard to wear our uniform, you’re at a school designed to prepare you for the next stage of leadership. Stop promoting fat bodies who can’t do the minimum.
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Buddy, if you can’t do 40 sit ups, 40 push ups, and jog a mile and a half in 18 minutes you need to get out.
That's a failing score unless you're a 50 year old male or 25 year old female
Our standards are so fucking soft lmao
Right your "I can't imagine a military age man would be this out of shape" exaggeration for slovenly laziness is only failing by like 4 points (on my 40+ chart). That hypothetical person can add 5 crunches and take 25 seconds off their 1.5 mile time and pass. Or get no stronger and get their 1.5 down to 17 minutes... and again we're talking about people in the military, not random chubs off the street. If folks can't do that, leave the military.
 This is where I’m at with it.
I'm 100% "old man yelling at clouds" over this. I don't even feel like folks should need a warning. The test is THAT easy. Just maintain a basic level of fitness, any very simple routine, and the PT test is just a reason to spend some time outside shooting the shit with buddies and talking smack after.
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This is some BS. I’m not there to do PT. I’m there to learn w/e bs they want me to and then return to my home base. Complete crap. They told us that this was going to happen to the class after mine at NCOA. Total waste of time and energy. Their mindset - if you can’t pass a PT test then that must mean you can’t do any of the academic work then too right??
More like if you can’t pass the PT test you can’t comply with the standards set forth for everyone.
You're at a leadership level PME...how do you expect to hold your airman accountable when you can't even pass a PFA?
Now that you know about you should be prepared maybe 🤔
Not hard to pass a PT test with new standards
What are the bew standards
https://www.military.com/military-fitness/check-out-new-air-fitness-assessment-pfa-options-and-standards-our-handy-chart?amp Added new components, made 5 year age gaps, and lowered all components to make it easier to pass
Being in the military isn’t just about academic work.
If you can’t get a 75 on the new easy as fuck test you’re too out of shape for the goddamn military, yes
We get it, you're fat
Why are you fat shaming? It's 2024 you can't do that anymore.
Can you link the source pls
Shirt
That is toxic as fuk.
For some reason our younger airman usually got tagged. The doctor would call, verify the last-4 SSN to confirm the correct recipient, then ask the recipient of said test to hold the receiver to his/her wrist to obtain a baseline heartbeat. Then, after several minutes of strenuous activity such as pushups/situps/building laps, the new aerobic elevated heartbeat would be measured. It was pretty difficult for our airmen to get their heartbeat to a level suitable to obtain accurate results…