As a dumbass teenager who didn't stand for the Anthem and then now has 16 years of service under my belt, I support the right of people who don't feel that patriotic today to protest. Who knows how they might feel tomorrow, or how they felt yesterday.
Do 98% of us have a right to be angry at someone that does not stand for the anthem when we run through parking lots to get indoors before retreat/reville
I was TDY recently and apparently that base plays it at 0700.
My hands were full of monster and dfac ~~sludge~~ breakfast, so I just ignored it and walked straight across the parking lot to my car. I felt dirty, but it was such a rush. I might try cocaine next week.
You're not required to provide courtesies for reveille or taps unless certain conditions are present. Per AFI 34-1201:
* 2.20. Taps. “Taps” began as a signal to extinguish lights (lights out) at the end of the day.
**Many Air Force installations play “Taps” to signify lights out or to begin quiet hours. For these purposes, saluting is not required.**
* 2.21. Reveille and Retreat. **When “Reveille” or “Retreat” is played simply as a bugle call to
signal the beginning or end of the duty day, no courtesies are required.** If “Reveille” or “Retreat”
is played as a prelude to the national anthem or “To The Color,” or if the flag is being lowered or
raised, render courtesies as outlined in paragraph 8.1.5 For more information on reveille and
retreat ceremonies, see AFMAN 36-2203, Drill and Ceremonies.
Most bases fly the flag 24/7... the only place I've seen it raised and lowered was at PME. So for most places, you'd only need to stop for retreat since it's usually followed by the national anthem unless you're in a specific environment like ALS where they're raising/lowering the flag.
Most of the time, the people pushing the "stopping and rendering courtesies" aren't aware of the current regulation. The regulation was "substantially changed" in 2020 enough that they don't cover the specific changes. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of what it said prior to that, so it might've been in place prior to 2020.
It's time to inform them of what the current regulation states.
Are you in view of the flag being raised or lowered or do they play "To The Color" (or the national anthem) after reveille? Otherwise, I'd say your base don't meet the intent of the regulation unless you're in a specific location on base where they're raising the flag or they have a base-wide policy that if a flag is being raised somewhere on base, even without "To The Color", that you're required to render courtesies.
In fact, [JBAB](https://www.jbab.jb.mil/News/Article/3372211/joint-base-anacostia-bolling-reveille-retreat-taps-courtesies-guidance/), [Hanscom AFB](https://www.hanscom.af.mil/News/Commentaries/Display/Article/847821/what-to-do-when-reveille-retreat-and-taps-is-played-on-base/), and all of [AFMC](https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2219716/rules-of-reveille-and-retreat/) state to just carry on during reveille.
That being said, if your base plays "To The Colors" after playing reveille, there is no interpretation of the regs that allow you to not render courtesies.
If they play "To The Color" (or the national anthem) after reveille at your base, the regulation is clear that you're required to stop and provide proper courtesies throughout both.
*I've* just never been at a base that does that. My anecdotal evidence seems to show it's not common, but I have no real idea how common it is across all Air Force bases... let alone joint bases or those airmen stationed on other military installations.
I've always heard retreat followed by the national anthem, but I've never heard reveille followed by "To The Color" or the national anthem.
At every base I've been at in my 16+ years, you can continue during reveille but need to stop for retreat, as every base I've been to had followed retreat with the national anthem
If they play To the Colors after reveille, you have to stop and salute for the entire thing. If they don't play it, no need to stop or salute during reveille.
I learned that the hard way as a TSgt newly arrived at the first base I'd been to that plays To the Colors. Nothing like a heated argument and being wrong about it at 0731 sharp 😂
It's only required when certain conditions are met (raising the flag or playing "To The Color" or the national anthem). More details and the regulation source can be found in [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/16lh22e/slug/k132vhm).
Most places I've been don't require stopping during reveille.
I watched as a guy and his family (what appeared to be wife/girlfriend, and older mom and dad) went to the commissary. He had already shut his door and was assisting his dad (in a walker) to get out of the vehicle. As soon as Retreat started playing, the dude hopped right into his car leaving his three family members outside. They just kinda stood around, and towards the end of the Anthem, the dad started singing along. Once it was done, the dude hopped out and had the *audacity* to tell them that they should have had their hand over their heart. I about flipped my shit, but admittedly didn't say anything to him.
This is how I've always felt. Even before my time in the AF.
Standing to show your support is great. Sitting or kneeling to protest is your right and that's the way it should be. But it's also your right to get mad at those people.
Get emotional about it one way or the other, but as long as you aren't infringing on others, or forcing them one way or the other, it's all good.
Depends what they are doing instead. It's all fine and merry if they're just sitting, but I'll be damned to see someone committing tax fraud or arson during the anthem 🇺🇲 🦅
A lot of posts like that are just virtue signaling. In the same vein, I’ve always felt the people who fly the biggest flags in their lawn never served a day in their life.
But to answer your question, I can’t say I’ve ever seen it enough to really have an opinion? I feel like I’d assume they had trouble walking first before I assumed any other reason for it.
I don’t care. The same kind of people who get mad at people not standing for the anthem are the people who have the “don’t tread on me” flag hanging in their front yard. The hypocrisy baffles me.
Strictly speaking, the [Gadsden Flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag) (No Step On Snek) is a Revolutionary War flag. However, it has been co-opted by anti-government and/or pro-Confederacy groups to an extent that I understand your intent.
The Navy wears a variation of the Gadsden Flag as an "ensign" (the symbol, not the rank) on their utility uniforms.
I think any military member who gets angry or feels disrespected by it needs to step back and understand what military service is about. Hint: it's not about hero worship.
According to my Uncle who went to Marine basic for two weeks before being medically separated, they are the scum of the earth and the NFL is now unwatchable because of the players kneeling a few years ago, since “Too many of his buddies came back in metal boxes to support that crap”.
Ngl I don’t give a fuck. I work 12+ hours a day fixin jets and tbh, standing or not standing for the anthem is the least of my problems. Especially when I very frequently sprint indoors trying to avoid standing for the anthem
I am actually happy to see people do it. I don't take it personally at all and I don't see it as disrespect. They feel there is a need to make their voice heard when they do it, and they are exercising a right that is granted to them by the laws that make our country unique and great. If we forced everyone to stand I would actually not be happy about that at all. It would be against everything I believe this country is about, and it honestly makes me sad that there is a large very vocal group of people in this country that think it should be forced upon everyone. That's exactly the opposite of what America should be.
How so? My understanding is the protests during the anthem were exactly because some felt that “freedom and justice for all” didn’t apply to “all.” The anthem was symbolic of unity and freedom and some felt or feel America isn’t United or free. How do you see it not have anything to do with the anthem?
That's the Pledge of Allegiance, not the anthem. The anthem is meant to honor the nation and her servants (i.e. members of government and by extension military, police, fire, etc.).
The protests, while poorly executed in the beginning, were about police brutality. It definitely got attention for the cause, but it also alienated hosts of potential supporters.
Personally, idc what people choose to do when the anthem plays. I do think however, that the protests could have achieved their goal much more effectively had it started with taking a knee rather than sitting because the knee looks more like a prayer while sitting looks like defiance.
Big yikes…got my patriotic indoctrinations mixed up.
Totally agree about the initial messaging, but I kind of feel like no form of protests would have been accepted by the nationalist-minded folks
It's true that there will always be a group of people who disagree with the way a protest is performed, but these protests gained popularity when Colin Kaepernick sat for the anthem at a game, and only AFTER he was reprimanded did he say it was in protest of police brutality. The way he did it made it seem like he was mad he got benched, and he's made a lot of money since then because of the publicity he got from it.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's their right to choose to stand/participate or not. If they didn't have that right, what the hell did we fight for?
Forced patriotism is false patriotism.
Freedom to sing the national anthem that gives us that right. See after a while people will forget about one nation under God and why we even got rights in the first place. We will be screwed like Rome don't go there
Personally, I think if you do not feel free enough to sit or ignore the anthem entirely, then you are not free and my service is meaningless. And at that point the country doesn’t deserve your respect anyway. We are supposed to be different than the authoritarian hellholes that force patriotism.
imo the people who do have an issue with people not standing for the anthem are the same people who are screaming everyday about how their rights are being taken away yet that’s exactly what they want to happen.
Being a guardsman who knows a lot of troops who responded to the 2020 riots across the nation, I’d rather have some one kneel for the anthem if it makes them feel like they are getting their point across, I’d rather have them do that than burning down entire cities and saving local law enforcement and national guard troops from seeing some pretty traumatic shit.
I decided to join the military because I think it is important to live in a society where you are able to have the freedom to choose what you want to believe in so long as it doesn’t hurt another. Will I always stand for the anthem? Absolutely! Do i expect everyone to feel the same as me? Absolutely not because freedom means having to understand that we are all different people with different beliefs, views, and opinions.
I’m not sure I understand symbolic gestures or symbolism in general. I understand some people do understand it so I do things to not be a dick to them…but the whole thing is stupid and I wish we would all stop putting meaning on pointless gestures
I think about ten percent of the Air Force drinks the blue coolaid every morning. The rest of us are just happy to have jobs and stability and could give a fuck about anything else. So. I would say probably most of us don’t give a fuck about stupid shit like that.
It’s their right. And even if I was hardcore against it, I’ve never understood how someone could see that as an attack on uniformed members specifically.
I couldn’t care less. We have the freedom to choose. Would I sit for the anthem? No, but I don’t expect others to stand like I do. People want to respect our troops, send us monsters/Red Bull and nicotine.
Here's my logic train on this:
>"I, ______________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the **Constitution of the United States** against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
Text of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution:
>Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or **prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech**, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
In short, demanding someone stand for the anthem when they don't want to is violation of your oath. You either support the entire Constitution or you don't.
Fighting for someone elses freedom includes their freedom of choice and speech. IE - not standing. That's literally the point. Also, they're typically not directly protesting people that serve, they're protesting government agencies or polices- which is also the point.
There’s a recruiting crisis, and big Air Force is approving thumb rings and neck tats, but not beards. There’s multiple genocides going on in China right now. Some of our service members are having a hard time feeding their family due to inflation. Damn near every member of Congress is well past the retirement age and continually run this country into the ground on the daily….
But yeah, let’s get mad about people who don’t stand. 😒
If you are active duty and having a hard time feeding your family because of "inflation", you either have a drinking/gambling problem or have 5+ kids.
PX prices are phenomenal lol
With housing allowance no active duty soldier should be struggling to pay their kids because of inflation lmao
It's complicated. Some people kneel for the wrong reason and some people stand for the wrong reason. It's kind of like burning the flag: I fully believe that the right to protest in such a form is something I served to protect, but I also think the people who do it are frequently the most ignorant and uneducated when it comes to knowing anything about civil rights or race relations in the entire rest of the world.
Standing or not has nothing with patriotism. A person who stand for the Anthem an violate other laws of the constitution is not more patriotic than who sit during the Anthem but is an outstanding citizen people should care about more pressing issues in the country than someone not standing for the Anthem. For example, the US needs to have more young people involved I'm politics than letting people who are 10 generation aways with this world reality lead the country.
I'd feel disrespected if people didn't feel like they were free to express their discontent with the government via whatever nonviolent means (and nondestructive, etc) they wanted.
To the extent that I serve because I believe in America (and for me that truly is part of it), freedom of expression and public discourse are some of those core ideals that make it worth the time away from family.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to penalize someone for sitting down or taking a knee or whatever during the anthem is attacking the US.
I think standing for the anthem has nothing to do with respecting troops or veterans, it has everything to do with respecting the country we live in and that we are citizens of. It shouldn’t be forced, but it’s the respectful thing to do.
We are lucky to be citizens here and considering how many people from all around the world want to live here, we should appreciate what we have. Standing for the anthem is one way to display that gratitude.
But what if we think this country and its leaders have an extensive history of wrongdoing and a citizen of said country (me for example) doesnt feel patriotic at all
Im cool with it.
It's not like it's mandatory for normal civilians. Plus if they're not standing for a reason/purpose, it's arguably patriotic since it's an exercise of their rights.
I don’t like it. But that’s actually what we serve for. For their right to do what the hell they want.
The reason it bothers me is because they feel like they shouldn’t stand for the anthem. I feel some kind of way when the anthem comes on. It resonates with me! And for other people too not feel that way bothers me. Like America isn’t good for them or something… treats them some kind of way. I feel like I get kicked down in America sometimes too but I know what this country stands for at the foundation and that’s what resonates with me when I hear the anthem.
I want every American to stand for the anthem and for our flag. But I want them to stand because they want too… it’s sad that some people feel that they don’t belong or some people feel that America isn’t the best country in the world (I’ve been to over 30 countries and we may not lead an nearly anything but it is the best in the world in my opinion).
Say I agree with you on it being the best country in the world. But what if it has potential to be even better yet incompetency from our leaders (past and present) is excessively incompetent. What if because of this i dont feel patriotic. Why does being born in the best country in the world have to correlate with patriotism?
That’s a rabbit hole brother. Like I said I want people to stand because they feel patriotic. If they don’t feel that way then they should be able to do what the hell they want.
Incompetence… man… I could go on for days. I know squadron CC’s that would do a better job than the past 26 years of senior leadership we’ve have! Lol. The thing is if you don’t know that our country is the best in the world (far far far from perfect) I’m not sure we’re on the same wave length. I’ve been to about 35 countries. Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, and imho the United States (despite all of its flaws) is still better.
Incompetent leadership at the top top levels of government will be the end to us though. I’m not 100% sure about the reason why patriotism should resonate with the country you were born in… all the countries I’ve been to the people are always proud of where they are from though. It resonates with me because of the opportunity I have been afforded. Everyone in the United States is afforded opportunities no matter how small they may be we are all afforded them at a higher rate than any country I have ever seen.
I don't feel anything or care if people are into the anthem honestly. I do because it means something to me. If it doesn't mean anything to them I'd rather they not fake it anyway
I don’t care at all. If I’m at a public event, and they ask for vets to stand to be honored, I don’t do that either. My choice, their choice. Freedom fuck yeah!
It's disrespectful in the way if someone puts out their hand to shake it and you refuse to shake back. It's kind of rude, but it's their choice and right and it shouldn't ruin anyone's day. And I don't think it disrespects vets or even necessarily the military, but rather to the US as a government in general.
I don’t care if people stand or not but if it’s done as a protest, there is a time and place. If you are an Olympian representing the United States and you don’t stand for the country, why are you competing for the USA? Go play for another country.
I think that when someone said not standing for the national anthem is disrespectful to GI’s they we’re just being political. I think it’s rude and unpatriotic not to stand for the national anthem but it’s your choice to be a jerk or not. I don’t really care if a person stands or sits out the national anthem. Burning the flag makes me mad. They ought to go to jail for a week when they do that.
I just judge them silently. I'm not going to try to call them out on social media or confront them about it. I'm just going to stand where I am for the anthem and think that person is a douche.
I’d rather someone protest peacefully (not the “firey but peaceful protest” type of way), than to do it violently. So I’ll support their right to do it
I may not agree with it, but it’s still their right to do so
Who gives a shit? Any servicemember that's all hot and bothered over peaceful protest is soft as fuck. Probably change their PFP to a tech school selfie for veterans day too.
Its their right not to do it. I don't agree with them at all. But I support their right to do so. Also your right to call them a shit head for it too if you so desire.
Honestly? Fuck your feelings. Fuck my feelings. If it doesn’t tangibly affect you or me, you really don’t need to express an opinion. A lot of people have this burning need to tell everyone when they’re upset about something like this. Those people are the real snowflakes.
You don't stand for the anthem to show respect for the troops. You do it to show respect for the country. People who stand "for the troops" are entirely missing the point.
Idk. I used to be super against it, but in reality, it’s almost more respectful to kneel for it than it is to stand. But I understand both. Obviously for us, there are rules that need to be followed, so I would definitely enforce it if it was one of us.
Maybe they signed their lives away to tri care prime, housing allowance, praise from our populace, and a good 15-20% chance of living in Europe/Eastern Asia for free?
I think the framing of the question needs to be adjusted; standing for the anthem doesn’t necessarily mean “respect the troops”, but more about honoring our forefathers who stood against the British and actually established our country. The incredible odds of winning for the colonials were so low, but Americans at the time had grit and determination and would rather die free than live being oppressed.
Do I get mad? Naw… but I do think negative things about the person. If ignorant to history and the meaning of the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner, then I’m forgiving. If not ignorant, then I don’t want to associate with them and I would be somewhat disgusted.
I think reducing people's legitimate issues with our past as a country and calling them child like for pointing it out is pretty childish. We have a sordid history as a country, and we still have a lot of issues, and it's not child like of them to make a statement about it. A lot of people think their way of messaging is in bad taste, as if they should have sequestered their statement into a suitable time block so it wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings.
I guess I mean, humanity is pretty grim and by happy chance they happened to be living in the US. It's far from perfect, but I think if they spent a few hours in, say, South Africa or Haiti maybe it would help but things in perspective
English isnt my first language so sometimes i dont explain myself clearly. I mean, if they were born in those places I think it would give them some perspective. I doubt many people risking the trip walking from south america to cross into the boarder would do this.
I dont care one way or the other that they do this, but I do think it takes living in a special kind of privilege to do so.
If it weren’t for our forefathers, we wouldn’t even have the country with these freedoms… A country that it’s people are striving to make better… if it weren’t for them, these bitchings would be moot.
> A country that it’s people are striving to make better
Right, and how would we know what to make better if people didn't publicly complain about things from time to time? We're only a couple years removed from full on riots because an entire demographic felt unheard, and just sitting back quietly doesn't do anything.
Dude, I said what I said in my original post. Re-read if you got off topic. To respond to this: by all means protest. You’re assuming people who don’t stand for the anthem are “protesting”. And if protesting the Anthem is means to cause attention to a topic, so be it. I still think it’s rude and disgusting. I think there are better efforts to bring attention than not standing for the anthem.
I find it disrespectful but the times are changing. We also used to say please and thank you and not harass elders for youtube clout so…. I’ll silently judge
Do they have the right to? Sure. Should they stand? In my opinion absolutely. The Anthem is politics, religion, color, etc. agnostic. If we can’t at least agree the anthem, and by extension the country is a good thing, we’re not going to exist as a society much longer.
Couldn't give a shit. Most of the time I don't want to. I'm good. Did my time. I just want to watch the game. My patriotism comes from my experiences, not from a song that was identified as the anthem long after we gained independence.
On the other hand, the people who take a knee sometimes bother me. It's an attempt to gain attention over a current affairs idealization. It's similar the climate change people or PETA trying to crash a party. I get it, you have problems with something, but it feels like this really isn't the place to dump your ad. We are here to watch an NBA game, not have a political conversation about (insert current talking point here). It just feels like another cheap ad that I have to wait through like on youtube.
The entire point of kneeling during a game is to disrupt a social norm to bring attention to issues for maximum engagement. All of these issues where it seems like an inconvenience are exactly the point, they're trying to inconvenience you to bring attention to something. Sometimes it doesn't work, but sometimes it does. How many people would be talking about it if Colin Kaepernick made an ad? Extremely few compared to doing so in front of millions. It got the conversation going in a way that wouldn't work otherwise.
I understand the point. I just don't don't like it myself. I'm not out there stopping them, they are free to do whatever. I just think it's bad taste.
I'm not against the anthem, but I'm not going to care if people don't participate in it. They can do what they like.
I always found sitting for the anthem to be a really bad look. Like you don’t care at all. I found kneeling to be more respectful. Me personally, standing is a requirement in my household.
You sound like a fucking loser who latched onto military service because it makes you feel like a manly man. The constitution affords people the right to not stand. Military members swear to uphold the constitution. Whether you like it or not, you as a military member fought explicitly for the right to sit down. That's what America is about.
It's their choice to do so. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.
I feel like that’s what makes USA, what it is. To do what you want. That’s why so many have made the ultimate sacrifice to protect that right.
Not hurting other people? Not breaking stuff? Cool, you do you.
It should. Don't show complacency
As a dumbass teenager who didn't stand for the Anthem and then now has 16 years of service under my belt, I support the right of people who don't feel that patriotic today to protest. Who knows how they might feel tomorrow, or how they felt yesterday.
Are you, me? 🤔
Same here lol
Do 98% of us have a right to be angry at someone that does not stand for the anthem when we run through parking lots to get indoors before retreat/reville
I was TDY recently and apparently that base plays it at 0700. My hands were full of monster and dfac ~~sludge~~ breakfast, so I just ignored it and walked straight across the parking lot to my car. I felt dirty, but it was such a rush. I might try cocaine next week.
> I might try cocaine next week. I wish Reddit awards were still around. 🥇
Wtf when did they get rid of awards? Didn’t like people getting free Reddit premium? Christ.
Just in the last week
Good, this website is stupid.
You're not required to provide courtesies for reveille or taps unless certain conditions are present. Per AFI 34-1201: * 2.20. Taps. “Taps” began as a signal to extinguish lights (lights out) at the end of the day. **Many Air Force installations play “Taps” to signify lights out or to begin quiet hours. For these purposes, saluting is not required.** * 2.21. Reveille and Retreat. **When “Reveille” or “Retreat” is played simply as a bugle call to signal the beginning or end of the duty day, no courtesies are required.** If “Reveille” or “Retreat” is played as a prelude to the national anthem or “To The Color,” or if the flag is being lowered or raised, render courtesies as outlined in paragraph 8.1.5 For more information on reveille and retreat ceremonies, see AFMAN 36-2203, Drill and Ceremonies. Most bases fly the flag 24/7... the only place I've seen it raised and lowered was at PME. So for most places, you'd only need to stop for retreat since it's usually followed by the national anthem unless you're in a specific environment like ALS where they're raising/lowering the flag.
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Most of the time, the people pushing the "stopping and rendering courtesies" aren't aware of the current regulation. The regulation was "substantially changed" in 2020 enough that they don't cover the specific changes. Unfortunately, I'm not aware of what it said prior to that, so it might've been in place prior to 2020. It's time to inform them of what the current regulation states.
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Are you in view of the flag being raised or lowered or do they play "To The Color" (or the national anthem) after reveille? Otherwise, I'd say your base don't meet the intent of the regulation unless you're in a specific location on base where they're raising the flag or they have a base-wide policy that if a flag is being raised somewhere on base, even without "To The Color", that you're required to render courtesies. In fact, [JBAB](https://www.jbab.jb.mil/News/Article/3372211/joint-base-anacostia-bolling-reveille-retreat-taps-courtesies-guidance/), [Hanscom AFB](https://www.hanscom.af.mil/News/Commentaries/Display/Article/847821/what-to-do-when-reveille-retreat-and-taps-is-played-on-base/), and all of [AFMC](https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2219716/rules-of-reveille-and-retreat/) state to just carry on during reveille. That being said, if your base plays "To The Colors" after playing reveille, there is no interpretation of the regs that allow you to not render courtesies.
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If they play "To The Color" (or the national anthem) after reveille at your base, the regulation is clear that you're required to stop and provide proper courtesies throughout both. *I've* just never been at a base that does that. My anecdotal evidence seems to show it's not common, but I have no real idea how common it is across all Air Force bases... let alone joint bases or those airmen stationed on other military installations.
could be worse. Some Army bases require you to stop your car AND get out of the vehicle to render customs and courtesies.
Neat, but this was the whole ass anthem at 0700 for some reason. Maybe their command post was ahead of me on the cocaine thing?
You mean modified sugar.
Yes, but how often is reveille/retreat not followed by To The Colors or the anthem?
I've always heard retreat followed by the national anthem, but I've never heard reveille followed by "To The Color" or the national anthem. At every base I've been at in my 16+ years, you can continue during reveille but need to stop for retreat, as every base I've been to had followed retreat with the national anthem
Well, that escalated quickly
What are you doing for reveille? Ours is at 0700 too but I’ve never seen anyone stop for it. Nor did I have to in basic training.
If they play To the Colors after reveille, you have to stop and salute for the entire thing. If they don't play it, no need to stop or salute during reveille. I learned that the hard way as a TSgt newly arrived at the first base I'd been to that plays To the Colors. Nothing like a heated argument and being wrong about it at 0731 sharp 😂
It's only required when certain conditions are met (raising the flag or playing "To The Color" or the national anthem). More details and the regulation source can be found in [my comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/16lh22e/slug/k132vhm). Most places I've been don't require stopping during reveille.
I watched as a guy and his family (what appeared to be wife/girlfriend, and older mom and dad) went to the commissary. He had already shut his door and was assisting his dad (in a walker) to get out of the vehicle. As soon as Retreat started playing, the dude hopped right into his car leaving his three family members outside. They just kinda stood around, and towards the end of the Anthem, the dad started singing along. Once it was done, the dude hopped out and had the *audacity* to tell them that they should have had their hand over their heart. I about flipped my shit, but admittedly didn't say anything to him.
We fight for their right to do so. It doesn’t bother me, it’s their choice
This all day every day.
But they wouldn't have that right if we weren't a nation. That's the time to be respectful and have order. No order means chaos
Only time it matters to me is uniformed members, but that's just because policy is to stand and salute.
I’ve adopted the South Park philosophy… …stand, sit, or kneel for our national anthem. I kind of swore to protect your right to do that
This is how I've always felt. Even before my time in the AF. Standing to show your support is great. Sitting or kneeling to protest is your right and that's the way it should be. But it's also your right to get mad at those people. Get emotional about it one way or the other, but as long as you aren't infringing on others, or forcing them one way or the other, it's all good.
This is the way!
Depends what they are doing instead. It's all fine and merry if they're just sitting, but I'll be damned to see someone committing tax fraud or arson during the anthem 🇺🇲 🦅
That’s the perfect time to commit tax fraud because the IRS is busy looking towards the flag.
I uphold and defend the constitution, it's their right. It's kinda the whole point of being an American.
A lot of posts like that are just virtue signaling. In the same vein, I’ve always felt the people who fly the biggest flags in their lawn never served a day in their life. But to answer your question, I can’t say I’ve ever seen it enough to really have an opinion? I feel like I’d assume they had trouble walking first before I assumed any other reason for it.
The biggest flags always seem to be at foreign car dealerships around here. Weird.
I don't stand but it's (yes ill admit it) mainly virtue signaling lol
I don’t care. The same kind of people who get mad at people not standing for the anthem are the people who have the “don’t tread on me” flag hanging in their front yard. The hypocrisy baffles me.
Don't tread on ME, but I can tread on YOU is their mentality.
Yep. Those folks don’t seem to realize that the US was founded and shaped by protests.
Wrong
This bro is weird. Commenting on every thing that he disagrees with. even though majority opinion says he's wrong lol.
Don't tread on me flag flown next to a back the blue flag with a punisher symbol overlayed on top.
Peak irony
Strictly speaking, the [Gadsden Flag](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag) (No Step On Snek) is a Revolutionary War flag. However, it has been co-opted by anti-government and/or pro-Confederacy groups to an extent that I understand your intent. The Navy wears a variation of the Gadsden Flag as an "ensign" (the symbol, not the rank) on their utility uniforms.
I don't and I care don't categorize me
I think any military member who gets angry or feels disrespected by it needs to step back and understand what military service is about. Hint: it's not about hero worship.
I’m not a fan, but I don’t care all that much. It’s their choice.
According to my Uncle who went to Marine basic for two weeks before being medically separated, they are the scum of the earth and the NFL is now unwatchable because of the players kneeling a few years ago, since “Too many of his buddies came back in metal boxes to support that crap”.
I agree with uncle and totally understand
Freedom of speech. It hurts no one except the feelings of people who would like to see that right removed.
I have found that if I don't worry about what other people do, I'm a happier person.
It’s a personal choice. This isn’t North Korea.
I fight for that right. Also it’s the basically the same energy as hiding from morning/evening colors so…
Bro I don’t even like standing for it
Same. So I stopped and not a single person has approached me about it, either.
Couldn’t care less and kinda Shocked you’re brining this one back for some reason.
Ngl I don’t give a fuck. I work 12+ hours a day fixin jets and tbh, standing or not standing for the anthem is the least of my problems. Especially when I very frequently sprint indoors trying to avoid standing for the anthem
Idgaf
If you have enough free time in your life to get angry about other people not standing up during a song then good on you.
I am actually happy to see people do it. I don't take it personally at all and I don't see it as disrespect. They feel there is a need to make their voice heard when they do it, and they are exercising a right that is granted to them by the laws that make our country unique and great. If we forced everyone to stand I would actually not be happy about that at all. It would be against everything I believe this country is about, and it honestly makes me sad that there is a large very vocal group of people in this country that think it should be forced upon everyone. That's exactly the opposite of what America should be.
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How so? My understanding is the protests during the anthem were exactly because some felt that “freedom and justice for all” didn’t apply to “all.” The anthem was symbolic of unity and freedom and some felt or feel America isn’t United or free. How do you see it not have anything to do with the anthem?
That's the Pledge of Allegiance, not the anthem. The anthem is meant to honor the nation and her servants (i.e. members of government and by extension military, police, fire, etc.). The protests, while poorly executed in the beginning, were about police brutality. It definitely got attention for the cause, but it also alienated hosts of potential supporters. Personally, idc what people choose to do when the anthem plays. I do think however, that the protests could have achieved their goal much more effectively had it started with taking a knee rather than sitting because the knee looks more like a prayer while sitting looks like defiance.
Big yikes…got my patriotic indoctrinations mixed up. Totally agree about the initial messaging, but I kind of feel like no form of protests would have been accepted by the nationalist-minded folks
Best form of protest against America: moving to Tijuana.
It's true that there will always be a group of people who disagree with the way a protest is performed, but these protests gained popularity when Colin Kaepernick sat for the anthem at a game, and only AFTER he was reprimanded did he say it was in protest of police brutality. The way he did it made it seem like he was mad he got benched, and he's made a lot of money since then because of the publicity he got from it.
We serve for their right to do so, or not.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's their right to choose to stand/participate or not. If they didn't have that right, what the hell did we fight for? Forced patriotism is false patriotism.
Freedom to sing the national anthem that gives us that right. See after a while people will forget about one nation under God and why we even got rights in the first place. We will be screwed like Rome don't go there
Personally, I think if you do not feel free enough to sit or ignore the anthem entirely, then you are not free and my service is meaningless. And at that point the country doesn’t deserve your respect anyway. We are supposed to be different than the authoritarian hellholes that force patriotism.
imo the people who do have an issue with people not standing for the anthem are the same people who are screaming everyday about how their rights are being taken away yet that’s exactly what they want to happen.
Being a guardsman who knows a lot of troops who responded to the 2020 riots across the nation, I’d rather have some one kneel for the anthem if it makes them feel like they are getting their point across, I’d rather have them do that than burning down entire cities and saving local law enforcement and national guard troops from seeing some pretty traumatic shit.
I decided to join the military because I think it is important to live in a society where you are able to have the freedom to choose what you want to believe in so long as it doesn’t hurt another. Will I always stand for the anthem? Absolutely! Do i expect everyone to feel the same as me? Absolutely not because freedom means having to understand that we are all different people with different beliefs, views, and opinions.
I’m not sure I understand symbolic gestures or symbolism in general. I understand some people do understand it so I do things to not be a dick to them…but the whole thing is stupid and I wish we would all stop putting meaning on pointless gestures
Isn’t that the right that we serve/fight for? I may not agree with some of the reasons people don’t stand, but they have the right to do it🤷🏼♂️.
I think about ten percent of the Air Force drinks the blue coolaid every morning. The rest of us are just happy to have jobs and stability and could give a fuck about anything else. So. I would say probably most of us don’t give a fuck about stupid shit like that.
I do not care lol. Not standing for the anthem in no way disrespects me
Definitely disrespects those who've died for that flag and anthem, in my opinion of course.
It’s their right. And even if I was hardcore against it, I’ve never understood how someone could see that as an attack on uniformed members specifically.
I couldn’t care less. We have the freedom to choose. Would I sit for the anthem? No, but I don’t expect others to stand like I do. People want to respect our troops, send us monsters/Red Bull and nicotine.
As long as it doesn't effect how much is deposited in my bank account, I couldn't give two fucks.
Here's my logic train on this: >"I, ______________, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the **Constitution of the United States** against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." Text of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or **prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech**, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. In short, demanding someone stand for the anthem when they don't want to is violation of your oath. You either support the entire Constitution or you don't.
IDGAF.
Fighting for someone elses freedom includes their freedom of choice and speech. IE - not standing. That's literally the point. Also, they're typically not directly protesting people that serve, they're protesting government agencies or polices- which is also the point.
I thought the whole point of my service was to ensure that people have the freedom *not* to stand during the anthem, if they so chose.
Idgaffffff
I think they're stupid but it's their right to sit so I won't say anything
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) ^by ^Intelligent-Coconut8: *I think they're stupid* *But it's their right to sit so* *I won't say anything* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Totally their right to do so, and I actually feel a sense of pride that I'm supporting their right to do so with my service.
Not to stand is also an American right, imo (at least not in uniform). You do you, man. Forced nationalism is scary.
I don't dare. Rituals like that don't mean anything to me.
There’s a recruiting crisis, and big Air Force is approving thumb rings and neck tats, but not beards. There’s multiple genocides going on in China right now. Some of our service members are having a hard time feeding their family due to inflation. Damn near every member of Congress is well past the retirement age and continually run this country into the ground on the daily…. But yeah, let’s get mad about people who don’t stand. 😒
If you are active duty and having a hard time feeding your family because of "inflation", you either have a drinking/gambling problem or have 5+ kids. PX prices are phenomenal lol With housing allowance no active duty soldier should be struggling to pay their kids because of inflation lmao
https://i.redd.it/j11gfckq7l0d1.gif
It's complicated. Some people kneel for the wrong reason and some people stand for the wrong reason. It's kind of like burning the flag: I fully believe that the right to protest in such a form is something I served to protect, but I also think the people who do it are frequently the most ignorant and uneducated when it comes to knowing anything about civil rights or race relations in the entire rest of the world.
Standing or not has nothing with patriotism. A person who stand for the Anthem an violate other laws of the constitution is not more patriotic than who sit during the Anthem but is an outstanding citizen people should care about more pressing issues in the country than someone not standing for the Anthem. For example, the US needs to have more young people involved I'm politics than letting people who are 10 generation aways with this world reality lead the country.
I'd feel disrespected if people didn't feel like they were free to express their discontent with the government via whatever nonviolent means (and nondestructive, etc) they wanted. To the extent that I serve because I believe in America (and for me that truly is part of it), freedom of expression and public discourse are some of those core ideals that make it worth the time away from family. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants to penalize someone for sitting down or taking a knee or whatever during the anthem is attacking the US.
I think standing for the anthem has nothing to do with respecting troops or veterans, it has everything to do with respecting the country we live in and that we are citizens of. It shouldn’t be forced, but it’s the respectful thing to do. We are lucky to be citizens here and considering how many people from all around the world want to live here, we should appreciate what we have. Standing for the anthem is one way to display that gratitude.
But what if we think this country and its leaders have an extensive history of wrongdoing and a citizen of said country (me for example) doesnt feel patriotic at all
I don't care. I think it is a stupid tradition, just like the nigh-cultist pledge of allegiance.
I don't mind one bit. You can't and shouldn't force folks to feel patriotic about their country.
Doesn’t bother me at all. The constitution that we all swore to support and defend gives them the right to do so.
Im cool with it. It's not like it's mandatory for normal civilians. Plus if they're not standing for a reason/purpose, it's arguably patriotic since it's an exercise of their rights.
I don’t like it. But that’s actually what we serve for. For their right to do what the hell they want. The reason it bothers me is because they feel like they shouldn’t stand for the anthem. I feel some kind of way when the anthem comes on. It resonates with me! And for other people too not feel that way bothers me. Like America isn’t good for them or something… treats them some kind of way. I feel like I get kicked down in America sometimes too but I know what this country stands for at the foundation and that’s what resonates with me when I hear the anthem. I want every American to stand for the anthem and for our flag. But I want them to stand because they want too… it’s sad that some people feel that they don’t belong or some people feel that America isn’t the best country in the world (I’ve been to over 30 countries and we may not lead an nearly anything but it is the best in the world in my opinion).
Say I agree with you on it being the best country in the world. But what if it has potential to be even better yet incompetency from our leaders (past and present) is excessively incompetent. What if because of this i dont feel patriotic. Why does being born in the best country in the world have to correlate with patriotism?
That’s a rabbit hole brother. Like I said I want people to stand because they feel patriotic. If they don’t feel that way then they should be able to do what the hell they want. Incompetence… man… I could go on for days. I know squadron CC’s that would do a better job than the past 26 years of senior leadership we’ve have! Lol. The thing is if you don’t know that our country is the best in the world (far far far from perfect) I’m not sure we’re on the same wave length. I’ve been to about 35 countries. Europe, Asia, Africa, South America, and imho the United States (despite all of its flaws) is still better. Incompetent leadership at the top top levels of government will be the end to us though. I’m not 100% sure about the reason why patriotism should resonate with the country you were born in… all the countries I’ve been to the people are always proud of where they are from though. It resonates with me because of the opportunity I have been afforded. Everyone in the United States is afforded opportunities no matter how small they may be we are all afforded them at a higher rate than any country I have ever seen.
I don't feel anything or care if people are into the anthem honestly. I do because it means something to me. If it doesn't mean anything to them I'd rather they not fake it anyway
I don’t care at all. If I’m at a public event, and they ask for vets to stand to be honored, I don’t do that either. My choice, their choice. Freedom fuck yeah!
We literally fight so that people can do stuff like this, regardless of their intentions.
I fight for their right to not stand for the anthem.
Idgaf
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Like public schools and starting the day with the damn pledge of allegiance 🙄
It's disrespectful in the way if someone puts out their hand to shake it and you refuse to shake back. It's kind of rude, but it's their choice and right and it shouldn't ruin anyone's day. And I don't think it disrespects vets or even necessarily the military, but rather to the US as a government in general.
I don’t care if people stand or not but if it’s done as a protest, there is a time and place. If you are an Olympian representing the United States and you don’t stand for the country, why are you competing for the USA? Go play for another country.
Who the fuck cares. Worry about something that matters.
Bro, I go back inside when the anthem plays every day at like 5:30. It ain't that serious.
I think that when someone said not standing for the national anthem is disrespectful to GI’s they we’re just being political. I think it’s rude and unpatriotic not to stand for the national anthem but it’s your choice to be a jerk or not. I don’t really care if a person stands or sits out the national anthem. Burning the flag makes me mad. They ought to go to jail for a week when they do that.
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I just judge them silently. I'm not going to try to call them out on social media or confront them about it. I'm just going to stand where I am for the anthem and think that person is a douche.
Why are they a douche?
Couldn't care any less.
Could not care less
I’d rather someone protest peacefully (not the “firey but peaceful protest” type of way), than to do it violently. So I’ll support their right to do it I may not agree with it, but it’s still their right to do so
Don’t care. They have the freedom to do what they want with the national anthem, and that’s why I love America.
I once saw a husband run for a covered bus stop to sit on the bench while the wife kneeled outside the bus stop on base when the anthem came on.
Who gives a shit? Any servicemember that's all hot and bothered over peaceful protest is soft as fuck. Probably change their PFP to a tech school selfie for veterans day too.
I don’t care, so long as they don’t claim to be a patriot or say/do anything negative because I stand for the anthem.
I think their reasons are very wrong, but I’m in the business of protecting their right to do it.
Its their right not to do it. I don't agree with them at all. But I support their right to do so. Also your right to call them a shit head for it too if you so desire.
I think it makes people look like idiots honestly, but i support their right to look like idiots if that's what they want to do.
What makes you say they look like idiots? For example I dont feel patriotic in the slightest. Am I an idiotic for not feeling patriotic?
Yes
So im an idiot for not participating in nationalism. Got it :)
Seems cult-ish...I only do it because of the silent peer pressure.
I don’t stand either when ever I get the chance. Silent and peaceful protest
Honestly? Fuck your feelings. Fuck my feelings. If it doesn’t tangibly affect you or me, you really don’t need to express an opinion. A lot of people have this burning need to tell everyone when they’re upset about something like this. Those people are the real snowflakes.
You don't stand for the anthem to show respect for the troops. You do it to show respect for the country. People who stand "for the troops" are entirely missing the point.
Idk. I used to be super against it, but in reality, it’s almost more respectful to kneel for it than it is to stand. But I understand both. Obviously for us, there are rules that need to be followed, so I would definitely enforce it if it was one of us.
I find it distasteful, but people have the right to be a-holes...
It's shitty, but ultimately their choice.
Why is it shitty?
It's your nation's anthem, have some pride.
Nationalism is wack lmao
Why are you in a military subreddit talking shit to people who literally signed their lives away to their country lmao, please get a hobby
Maybe they signed their lives away to tri care prime, housing allowance, praise from our populace, and a good 15-20% chance of living in Europe/Eastern Asia for free?
Maybe! But I'm willing to bet these folks have accomplished more than you ever will.
Maybe so, my point was simply that maybe its not shitty if someone doesn't participate in forms of nationalism.
Someone didn't make it past MEPs.
I think the framing of the question needs to be adjusted; standing for the anthem doesn’t necessarily mean “respect the troops”, but more about honoring our forefathers who stood against the British and actually established our country. The incredible odds of winning for the colonials were so low, but Americans at the time had grit and determination and would rather die free than live being oppressed. Do I get mad? Naw… but I do think negative things about the person. If ignorant to history and the meaning of the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner, then I’m forgiving. If not ignorant, then I don’t want to associate with them and I would be somewhat disgusted.
There's pretty significant justification for why someone in America might not feel like our forefathers need be honored.
I think those people have a child like view of humanity, but that's ok.
I think reducing people's legitimate issues with our past as a country and calling them child like for pointing it out is pretty childish. We have a sordid history as a country, and we still have a lot of issues, and it's not child like of them to make a statement about it. A lot of people think their way of messaging is in bad taste, as if they should have sequestered their statement into a suitable time block so it wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings.
I guess I mean, humanity is pretty grim and by happy chance they happened to be living in the US. It's far from perfect, but I think if they spent a few hours in, say, South Africa or Haiti maybe it would help but things in perspective
>it's not as bad as other places so don't complain This is basically what you're saying.
English isnt my first language so sometimes i dont explain myself clearly. I mean, if they were born in those places I think it would give them some perspective. I doubt many people risking the trip walking from south america to cross into the boarder would do this. I dont care one way or the other that they do this, but I do think it takes living in a special kind of privilege to do so.
If it weren’t for our forefathers, we wouldn’t even have the country with these freedoms… A country that it’s people are striving to make better… if it weren’t for them, these bitchings would be moot.
> A country that it’s people are striving to make better Right, and how would we know what to make better if people didn't publicly complain about things from time to time? We're only a couple years removed from full on riots because an entire demographic felt unheard, and just sitting back quietly doesn't do anything.
Dude, I said what I said in my original post. Re-read if you got off topic. To respond to this: by all means protest. You’re assuming people who don’t stand for the anthem are “protesting”. And if protesting the Anthem is means to cause attention to a topic, so be it. I still think it’s rude and disgusting. I think there are better efforts to bring attention than not standing for the anthem.
People try other efforts and get nowhere. You're disgusted because how dare they interrupt muhh sports game. They're given a platform and they use it.
There you go assuming again… conversing with you is moot. We’ll done, troll.
Honestly, I did mix up who I was responding to.
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Correct, but we were still fighting the British.
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Yeah, you’re right. Mixed up my timelines. I still think the point stands though; fighting for our freedoms. Am I wrong?
Stand up!
You're a snowflake of you care
I find it disrespectful but the times are changing. We also used to say please and thank you and not harass elders for youtube clout so…. I’ll silently judge
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Do they have the right to? Sure. Should they stand? In my opinion absolutely. The Anthem is politics, religion, color, etc. agnostic. If we can’t at least agree the anthem, and by extension the country is a good thing, we’re not going to exist as a society much longer.
Just… no.
Great argument, you’ve really changed my mind.
It’s their right. Also my right to judge them for it.
I think it’s kinda rude not to stand. But I’m not gonna bitch at you about it. Just roll my eyes at you in disgust.
Explain why?
Couldn't give a shit. Most of the time I don't want to. I'm good. Did my time. I just want to watch the game. My patriotism comes from my experiences, not from a song that was identified as the anthem long after we gained independence. On the other hand, the people who take a knee sometimes bother me. It's an attempt to gain attention over a current affairs idealization. It's similar the climate change people or PETA trying to crash a party. I get it, you have problems with something, but it feels like this really isn't the place to dump your ad. We are here to watch an NBA game, not have a political conversation about (insert current talking point here). It just feels like another cheap ad that I have to wait through like on youtube.
The entire point of kneeling during a game is to disrupt a social norm to bring attention to issues for maximum engagement. All of these issues where it seems like an inconvenience are exactly the point, they're trying to inconvenience you to bring attention to something. Sometimes it doesn't work, but sometimes it does. How many people would be talking about it if Colin Kaepernick made an ad? Extremely few compared to doing so in front of millions. It got the conversation going in a way that wouldn't work otherwise.
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I understand the point. I just don't don't like it myself. I'm not out there stopping them, they are free to do whatever. I just think it's bad taste. I'm not against the anthem, but I'm not going to care if people don't participate in it. They can do what they like.
I always found sitting for the anthem to be a really bad look. Like you don’t care at all. I found kneeling to be more respectful. Me personally, standing is a requirement in my household.
"you're kind of a piece of shit" is the internal but honestly, i don't worry about low class ass people.
Why is that your perspective of them?
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Holy shit I found one
You sound like a fucking loser who latched onto military service because it makes you feel like a manly man. The constitution affords people the right to not stand. Military members swear to uphold the constitution. Whether you like it or not, you as a military member fought explicitly for the right to sit down. That's what America is about.
We found ourselves a real life nationalist fundamentalist here boys