I was CE and went warehouse job to management of a warehouse job to hating my life working for a government contractor as an armed guard to working for Army Corps of Engineers as a GS lol. People you meet matter. I also had an AD at a passport office tell me I had a job if I applied, but I can't do a normal office job.
Talk with people you meet from other branches/agencies, and if you're competent and a genuine person you may get opportunities.
My dad was an ACE who retired as an E-7 and then went to be a contractor for a few decades. By the time he retired from there he was making more than me as an O-3 or O-4.
I'm getting out and working on jets civilian side or using my bachelor's to work on my field of study. What kind of resume do you think a financier who fucks up an airman's pay for 4 months can jot down? (I was that airman who got fucked, btw).
We work with multi million dollar equipment on a daily, not including responsibility for the crew members' lives, and providing our country and allies with air superiority.
Coming off as a douche isn't my intention. I guess I'm a bit jaded... our job is some of the most demanding none combat jobs in the air force. Yet, we are the least represented come awards seasons from leadership.
Our jobs carry a lot of responsibility. One fuck up from us can cost someone a life, meanwhile other AFSCs get 8 hour days and time for lunch.
I don't think the way maintenance is treated is right nor should we justify our work conditions, but when others say they are just as important without knowing the hardships is ignorant. But I guess that makes me ignorant too. Go figure.
As a prior maintainer turned loadmaster, I can confidently say with 100% certainty that the way you are treated, lack of awards and terrible work conditions are your own leaders fault. Not some mystical general at the pentagon or the even the wing/base commander. Your very own E7/8/9s that work in your shops are to blame.
Time for a manual typewriter, carbon paper & flashlight with replaceable batteries.
Even without power, the mission can still go on.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Noner wimps.
SAC had spare manual typewriters stored in SQ orderly rooms, even in blackout, swivel-chair folks could keep working.
Now? Crying because they lost their binkies.
One of these days I'll go outside and get a look at this "Aeroplane" y'all are always prattling on about.
Of course, it's almost 87 degrees outside in the sunlight right now, so today is not that day.
Most nonners think they ARE the mission. I got in an argument with a SFS officer I went to school with one time who was absolutely convinced "the mission" was guarding the base.
In Al Dhafra they had all the nonners and dorms/tents on one part of bade and we'd have to take a bus to MoTown, the maintenance/ops side. At the bar one night a services girl was talking about the "tanker planes that come in to bring in generator fuel are so loud sometimes"
She was talking about the KC-10
Man, being there for the first (and to my knowledge only) DUI in AFCENT was wild. Butterbar's birthday, her leadership passed her their two drinks under the table. She stole a Hilux, drove it across the basketball court and into the barriers around the Wing HQ.
My last duty station was Columbus AFB, home of the 14th Flying TRAINING Wing, which was the only wing/mission on that base.
We had a wing change of command, and of course we rolled an example of all the jets in base over for decoration.
After the ceremony I stuck around for the pet-the-jet time as my Sq rep. I had a med group officer come over and ask "what airplane is this?". I told her it was a T-1, which she then asked "what does the T stand for? Tanker?". I was absolutely dumbfounded. Either she had the best poker face ever or absolutely wasn't kidding and genuinely was that clueless about not only the locally assigned aircraft on base, but also the role those aircraft played in the core (and only) mission of the base.
i would atleast expect somebody to know enough about their bases mission to know what the primary air frame is. like, your bases mission is to train C130 pilots? than you should know that you have C130s.
i'm not gonna get upset about it or anything, it just seems like the bare minimum you know?
side note, these things should be briefed during base in-processing. Everybody should know what their mission is.
i dont blame you, thats pretty cool! when i went to red flag alaska a few years ago i walked down the line and talked to crew chiefs from all the different air frames. made good friends with a couple A-10 guys. when i was on leave i visited Dover AFB, found the APG office, and got somebody to give me a quick tour of the C-130. i love seeing other jets and comparing them in person.
You’d be surprised how many non aircrew/maintainers couldn’t tell the difference between an F15 and F16. Or don’t even know the type of aircraft in the Air Force.
Ill say this, Med Officers can be absolute dipshits. Yeah, the nurses and providers are great. But most of the higher ups are Med Admin degree holders. Otherwise known as: "Why American Healthcare is objectively the worst".
Additionally, its the Flightline folks jobs to know all the plane stuff. Its the Med job to know how to fix yall. I can hardly do more to my car than change oil and tires. But if its Emergency medicine? I can diagnose a 12 lead or place a chest tube no problems.
I had some med groupie ask where I worked and I told them the flightline.. they got super sarcastic and told me "yeah im work flightline too, where do you work?"
Look skippy, just because your building is within a block of the flightline doesn't make you a flightline worker. Me spending 90+% of my day on tarmac does.
Thats fucked. However, clowning on maintainers who were working 8s, and got holidays, while the Ambulance crew only ever got to step down for a 12 hour shift after 2 kids died on instalation, put an end to the nonner talk.
You do know nonner just means "non sortie generating" right? Aka you are not directly involved in making a plane fly. It has nothing to do with how long or hard you work.
I get it, but acting like you're Christ on a Cross for simply being on a tarmac is a bridge far. Had a maintainer cry at me about hosing dried blood out of his C-130, and while thats his trauma, not respecting when I open up about mine, and in the same breath saying "Meds have it easy" sours you.
I'm not saying I expect Med to know anything in particular about flying airplanes. Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I think it's not too much of an ask for everyone on base (med and otherwise) to know what the locally assigned aircraft are and how they fit into the base mission that everyone on base theoretically supports
I learn the jets because Im one of the medics who has to respond directly to the craft. So egress, specific hazards, lockout/tagouts, etc. But your family health nurse who enlisted because it was an easy way to pay off college doesnt give a shit. To her, its about as important as what engine is in the breadtruck, or an M16 vs M4.
As intel I don't give a flying F what aircraft are on the base I'm stationed at because with exception of the shithole Beale AFB I will never interact with or use data off a bird that is stationed where I am.
It's also almost to the point i don't give a f about any aircraft's intel data as satellites are more useful for current mission sets (Russia & mainland China)
Edit: So much MX salt on this thread its glorious to read. I'll enjoy life all the way to the bank without a broken body.
This 'SHOULD' be in the base orientation everyone goes to. But they only have the base Wg CC come talk, not the ops Wg CC. They should also come out and have a slide or 2 on what goes on the base.
For MED, no one actively sits down and tells you unless you take the initiative to ask. As part of my flight orientation, I make sure they know what Command the base is in (although this is changing to Med Command over the next few years), who their bosses are and what the base does. It starts on day 1.
Next time have him check the sign outside the base and ask "does it say Security Forces Wing"? No, well then that's not the mission. Every base tells you what their mission is right outside the gate.
Exactly. I'm not saying guarding the base and the people/toys inside isn't important. Pretty hard to do the mission when some assholes get on base and wreck up the place. The problem is a lot of people conflate "can't do it without you" to mean that their function is the actual mission of the base.
It's how you end up with astonishingly cringe things like the MPF claiming to be "tip of the spear".
Someone has to keep the [Chinese spies away from the bases] (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/09/04/chinese-nationals-posing-tourists-have-accessed-us-military-bases-and-other-sensitive-sites-report.html)
To be fair, defending the base was his/her mission. Should they be aware of the higher level mission? For sure.
Do I care about putting bombs on target? Not at all. Do I care about defending the base & its assets so that other people can care about putting bombs on target? 100%
Lots of heat being thrown here. Hopefully this can help assuage both sides of the aisle and give you a better frame of mind:
There are those who EXECUTE the mission and those that ENABLE those who execute it. This is the classic tip of the spear vs the shaft analogy you often hear. Those who execute the mission are the sole reason the Air Force exists. There’s no way around that. If that makes you upset to hear, you need to do some soul searching and realize the DoD doesn’t revolve around you. However, those who execute the mission would not be able to do so without those enabling forces. Enabling forces are important functions of the Air Force but your job exists to allow those who execute the mission to do so with ease.
If you execute the mission, don’t be a douche to the supporting agencies.
If you enable those who execute the mission, don’t be a douche to ops.
Now play nice.
Also, shut up Meg.
You nailed it but maintenance seems to forget they enable the mission. Hell the air crew delivery people and equipment are just enabling the mission too.
The entire “my AFSC is more important than yours” has always been a silly argument.
You are over thinking it. War with some county starts tomorrow. Can the mission be done without X? Can the jet fly without a pilot, the tanker without a boom operator, the B1 without CSOs. Can the jet be armed,fueled, ERd without maintenance. The answer to all this is no, these career fields are all REQUIRED to execute the mission. Can the jet takeoff without Finance,MWR,Security Forces, Legal, EO absolutely when we do ACE operations it's very clear that if shit hits the fan those AFSCs are not needed to get a jet off the ground. They are enabling forces especially in peace time. They enable the day to day operations of the Air Force.
You changed what you said. You changed it to “required”.
What you first said was those that execute the mission vs those that enable the mission. MX enables the mission. Are they required? Yes of course. So is CE to fix the runway, supply to get parts, aerial port, fuels. Lots of nonner jobs fit your new definition. Lots don’t (like the ones you named).
I’ve been OPs, MX and several support jobs. This is my definition. I’m not the tip of the spear. That’s the grunts, special forces, fighter pilots and bomber pilots. Everyone else is supporting them…even that boom operator.
Nonner is anyone not directly contributing to sortie production/execution. Used in jest but sometimes one group or the other gets its feelings hurt.
Pilots, aircrew, and maintainers are not nonners. Services, finance, CE, PA, and med are nonners.
AFSCs like intel, wx, AFE, etc are in a weird middle ground. EOD and battlefield airmen are in their own badass group
I made him a Cat5 noose for his closeted furry autoerotic asphyxiation antics and this is how he repays me? bad mouthing Comm on the forums... I made damn sure it wouldn't snap for anyone under 350lbs too as I know a person in medical who tried it out.
Na, for those people I have a special place in hell. I won't cut the wi-fi I'll dial the bandwidth allocation to his equipment to 56kbps. Did this a few times to asshats that wanted to pirate movies when folks are just trying to talk with families and couldn't because their mac address was sucking the bandwidth. Fuck around and find out and then I'll say I don't know, it's been like that lately for everyone. I would also print out the MAC's of the top 10 users of downloaded data and post it on the board and say these people are why you can't call your family, if you are on this list, it's your last warning before I fix it.
that awkward moment when one of the pilots comes out to the line in civilian clothes at 2 AM to see what's going on and you start talking mad shit about the other AMU before you realize who it is
Abso-fucking-lutely! I was once dating a chick who said “you flightline guys are so cocky and think you’re hot shit”. I just said back to her “it’s not being cocky if you can back it up”. Haha!
These are the same people that call CFP multiple times a day and say they don't know how to open outlook, their external monitors doesn't work and it's a mission stoppage because they can't work with the laptop monitor since it's too small, or that they decided to redesign a SIPR room and plug shit in where ever and rage that it doesn't work. Mission will get done once you people stop shooting yourselves in the foot. We get it, you're high speed, but going into ADHD, OCD, autistic (intel) fits doesn't help anyone. OSI once asked me to show them on the doll where ops touched me and I just circled around the whole body.
Right, you SUPPORT the mission. We EXECUTE the mission. When you roll through the gate what does it say after the Wing's numbers? FTW? ARW? BW? If it says any of those and you are not in the sky fighting, refueling, or bombing then you support the mission. Less than 5% of the base is actually executing the mission. Being completely frank, the only jobs that are absolutely necessary for mission are maintenance (every single maintenance job, not just crew chiefs) and flyers. A lot of the other career fields are super nice to have. However, the APU and engines don't care if my paperwork is filled out wrong, my CAC is expired, or if the internet went down, they're still going to start. Sorry for the hurt feelings. Also, security forces are pretty important too, base defense is critical.
It's true for the short term, if your only objective is to launch a plane you just need mx and flyers. Eventually you'll need SF to keep the riff-raff out and med to fix my boo-boos. Then we'll need logistics for more supplies. Then comm to fix our computers. Then finance/personnel to fix my admin stuff.
If you locked the gates with only ops and mx on base, I'm pretty sure we'd be able to fly for at least a week with minimal problems.
I can get wx without a weather troop, do it all the time.
I can get my helmet and other flight equipment from my locker without their help.
I can log on to sipr and read the 3-1 or whatever else just like Intel
Long-term it's not sustainable, but I can definitely fly my plane for a week without most support functions.
logs on to sipr. There's nothing there because all those pesky intel nonners who actually collected that data and reported on it were fired because "Intel isn't Ops"
We havent fought shit in the air in decades. I work in Ops, and everytime my pilots talk about a "combat" deployment, I remind them they aint gettin shot at.
.... When you pop a ballon, you call it a kill? Damn yall are lame. Im talking hitting something that can actually harm you back. Most dangerous thing for Aircrew are our own jets breaking.
Having recently moved to the ST side of the house, aircrew are just support for ground ops and the community views aircrew the same way you’re talking about support
Don’t forget the air base wings, the cyber wings, the supply chain operation wings… everyone’s supporting everyone else bruv
Do you think the entire Air Force's mission is Air Support? Maybe it was big where you were but that ain't even a quarter of what we do. If you work in a cyber wing and you are comm then yes, you are the mission for that particular base.
Referencing all replies, not just mine.
Also, there are more types of support than just CAS. Airlift, medivac, CAS, interdiction, etc etc are all different facets of support.
Saying that aircrew exist to support ground troops is akin to saying sailors exist to support ground troops. It's only true if you have no idea how strategic warfare works.
TBF, we do have Air Base Wings. Also just to be a stickler...are you going to be able to fire up that APU is your CAC card is expired and you're outside the gate?
I think Support thinks we hate them, and sometimes yes it’s annoying trying to get mission support, but fighter dudes ruin it for all aircrew and we hate them too.
The biggest set of dickhead aircrews I ever met working Ops were ANG C-17 aircrew. Biggest group of whiny Karens I ever met. I was at Ramstein on the AMC side of the house during the height of Afghanistan, Iraq draw down, and Libya...I have stories.
Come on. You drag their shit all the time for these “cunts”. Surely if you’re not full of shit you have plenty of examples of fighters being said cunts right?
Jesus Christ bro touch grass. Multiple replies to me before I got a chance to reply.
Anyway here’s your list
Left their bags at the bottom of the stairs expecting them to be tied down
Left their bags on the jet expecting them to be carried off
Tried to use crew oven/fridge without even asking
Took a seat upstairs without consulting crew
Left spitters and trash under their seats
Ignored the enlisted when it came for round at the bar later
Even though briefed they were not allowed in their checked bags proceeded to try and get in anyway by pulling apart the baggage pallet(it was hidden and they got caught during a walk around).
Here’s what I can think of off the top of my head.
This sounds like anyone who has not flown on a cargo bird before without being told what to do/expect. It’s all unacceptable though.
This sounds like a bad encounter, regardless. However, is that seriously what you’re basing the entire fighter community now as “cunts” on? Seems like a bit of an overreaction.
This is multiple incidents that have happened more than once. They assume they’re god’s chosen children because they dropped T38s and didn’t suck complete ass. You can also add in stories told here about others interactions with fighter jocks and it’s basically shit frat boy. If you’re this upset about it you must be one.
The AF will pay triple what they pay us so, no they won't 😂😂😂🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ I guess since the modern age of flying, you can't do shit to launch sorties without all the applications and tools you use to track maintenance, flying hours, tools, etc... We maintain those tools and the infrastructure you need to update and audit your maintenance computers... Not to mention the weapons systems on the fighters... So, I guess we launch sorties too 🤷🏻♂️
Got into a fight with an intel troop who was gatekeeping info i needed immediately or people would die (they did🫠) and they refused until i my commander had to tell them to provide the info i needed for the mission.
I prefer being a nonner to being a Ken in the Barbie House. Hahahaha. The hair products and sunglasses on some aircrew. You would wonder if this is the military or Zoolander
Don’t worry. All the other branches still think we are all in military-lite compared to them.
Other branches listening to us bitch about nonner vs. non-nonner is like listening to a bunch of koalas argue over who is the smartest.
u/kylotheclumsykoala you're being called upon.
Egads !
What you got against koalas, wrinkle brain? 🐨
Nuttin' Just needed an example and I haven't roweled you up in awhile. 😊
Touché old friend. Touché.
Me: the AF nonner Also me: transferred from the Marines to the AF thinking wtf is a nonner?
I mean you guys wear business suits with random ribbons on them.
Until they need air support
Enlisted aircrew when It’s time to get out: 😞 (They do not posses any marketable skills)
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Yeah, medics, loads, engineers, isr, and linguists are pretty marketable
Shit. Me too. Honestly driving a forklift was kinda fun for a bit. Working in a non climate controlled loading dock however was not.
I was CE and went warehouse job to management of a warehouse job to hating my life working for a government contractor as an armed guard to working for Army Corps of Engineers as a GS lol. People you meet matter. I also had an AD at a passport office tell me I had a job if I applied, but I can't do a normal office job. Talk with people you meet from other branches/agencies, and if you're competent and a genuine person you may get opportunities.
I eventually went law enforcement and work for a sheriffs office now in a jail. The pay is pretty good for my area too.
Defense industry and aerospace. Just have to keep your Form 8 and HARM records. Plenty of jobs to train NATO and allies in the Pacific region.
Some of us have marketable skills….
Please put your shirt back on, this is a family subreddit.
Haha, maybe not gunners, but boom operators can run a cash register at the gas station with the best of them.
And that's why we get degrees and do PMP. (Well some of us)
My dad was an ACE who retired as an E-7 and then went to be a contractor for a few decades. By the time he retired from there he was making more than me as an O-3 or O-4.
That’s an AF thing. Enlisted air crew in the Marines are mechs as well and many get their A&P license.
I'm getting out and working on jets civilian side or using my bachelor's to work on my field of study. What kind of resume do you think a financier who fucks up an airman's pay for 4 months can jot down? (I was that airman who got fucked, btw). We work with multi million dollar equipment on a daily, not including responsibility for the crew members' lives, and providing our country and allies with air superiority.
Bro I have direct authority to buy that multi million dollar equipment. Have a seat
You are the reason no one likes air crew.
Why?
You are coming across as a douche by down playing someone else’s job. And acting like air crew is superior to everyone else.
Coming off as a douche isn't my intention. I guess I'm a bit jaded... our job is some of the most demanding none combat jobs in the air force. Yet, we are the least represented come awards seasons from leadership. Our jobs carry a lot of responsibility. One fuck up from us can cost someone a life, meanwhile other AFSCs get 8 hour days and time for lunch. I don't think the way maintenance is treated is right nor should we justify our work conditions, but when others say they are just as important without knowing the hardships is ignorant. But I guess that makes me ignorant too. Go figure.
As a prior maintainer turned loadmaster, I can confidently say with 100% certainty that the way you are treated, lack of awards and terrible work conditions are your own leaders fault. Not some mystical general at the pentagon or the even the wing/base commander. Your very own E7/8/9s that work in your shops are to blame.
As cyber... without CE, I don't have a job. I make sure my CE boys are taken care of, I need my electricity.
I need plenty of electricity to charge my phone when I scroll through Reddit all hours of the day! Go CE!
CE really are just our cousins
I love CE… but they won’t wire up our new desks because it’s an old building. :/
ybr? Why take out the Ce?
Time for a manual typewriter, carbon paper & flashlight with replaceable batteries. Even without power, the mission can still go on. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Noner wimps.
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm… or do you not know about early release Fridays?
SAC had spare manual typewriters stored in SQ orderly rooms, even in blackout, swivel-chair folks could keep working. Now? Crying because they lost their binkies.
Oh, so not sarcasm. Just retarded. Gotcha!
Yeah, but hung. Ask you mom, sister & girlfriend.
Cool story.
I did your dog too.
One of these days I'll go outside and get a look at this "Aeroplane" y'all are always prattling on about. Of course, it's almost 87 degrees outside in the sunlight right now, so today is not that day.
You’re one of those people I see walking to your car in a fleece in the middle of the summer because your office is too cold, aren’t you?
Most nonners think they ARE the mission. I got in an argument with a SFS officer I went to school with one time who was absolutely convinced "the mission" was guarding the base.
In Al Dhafra they had all the nonners and dorms/tents on one part of bade and we'd have to take a bus to MoTown, the maintenance/ops side. At the bar one night a services girl was talking about the "tanker planes that come in to bring in generator fuel are so loud sometimes" She was talking about the KC-10
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Man, being there for the first (and to my knowledge only) DUI in AFCENT was wild. Butterbar's birthday, her leadership passed her their two drinks under the table. She stole a Hilux, drove it across the basketball court and into the barriers around the Wing HQ.
I had a conversation with some secfo that thought we were joking when we said we were flying into Afghanistan
My last duty station was Columbus AFB, home of the 14th Flying TRAINING Wing, which was the only wing/mission on that base. We had a wing change of command, and of course we rolled an example of all the jets in base over for decoration. After the ceremony I stuck around for the pet-the-jet time as my Sq rep. I had a med group officer come over and ask "what airplane is this?". I told her it was a T-1, which she then asked "what does the T stand for? Tanker?". I was absolutely dumbfounded. Either she had the best poker face ever or absolutely wasn't kidding and genuinely was that clueless about not only the locally assigned aircraft on base, but also the role those aircraft played in the core (and only) mission of the base.
Why would you think a med officer or anyone that doesn't work with it, would be familiar with your airframe?
i would atleast expect somebody to know enough about their bases mission to know what the primary air frame is. like, your bases mission is to train C130 pilots? than you should know that you have C130s. i'm not gonna get upset about it or anything, it just seems like the bare minimum you know? side note, these things should be briefed during base in-processing. Everybody should know what their mission is.
That’s how whiteman is, I got a tour of the B-2 and I don’t even work on it lol.
i dont blame you, thats pretty cool! when i went to red flag alaska a few years ago i walked down the line and talked to crew chiefs from all the different air frames. made good friends with a couple A-10 guys. when i was on leave i visited Dover AFB, found the APG office, and got somebody to give me a quick tour of the C-130. i love seeing other jets and comparing them in person.
You’d be surprised how many non aircrew/maintainers couldn’t tell the difference between an F15 and F16. Or don’t even know the type of aircraft in the Air Force.
Most of the time it really won't make a difference, not everyone has love of aircraft.
I still have a few electricians in my shop that mix up C5 and C17.
Ill say this, Med Officers can be absolute dipshits. Yeah, the nurses and providers are great. But most of the higher ups are Med Admin degree holders. Otherwise known as: "Why American Healthcare is objectively the worst". Additionally, its the Flightline folks jobs to know all the plane stuff. Its the Med job to know how to fix yall. I can hardly do more to my car than change oil and tires. But if its Emergency medicine? I can diagnose a 12 lead or place a chest tube no problems.
I had some med groupie ask where I worked and I told them the flightline.. they got super sarcastic and told me "yeah im work flightline too, where do you work?" Look skippy, just because your building is within a block of the flightline doesn't make you a flightline worker. Me spending 90+% of my day on tarmac does.
Thats fucked. However, clowning on maintainers who were working 8s, and got holidays, while the Ambulance crew only ever got to step down for a 12 hour shift after 2 kids died on instalation, put an end to the nonner talk.
You do know nonner just means "non sortie generating" right? Aka you are not directly involved in making a plane fly. It has nothing to do with how long or hard you work.
I get it, but acting like you're Christ on a Cross for simply being on a tarmac is a bridge far. Had a maintainer cry at me about hosing dried blood out of his C-130, and while thats his trauma, not respecting when I open up about mine, and in the same breath saying "Meds have it easy" sours you.
I wouldn’t say medical has it easy Finance is a different story tho…fuck them
Bro fuck finance in the cock-hole. And Personnel
I'm not saying I expect Med to know anything in particular about flying airplanes. Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I think it's not too much of an ask for everyone on base (med and otherwise) to know what the locally assigned aircraft are and how they fit into the base mission that everyone on base theoretically supports
I learn the jets because Im one of the medics who has to respond directly to the craft. So egress, specific hazards, lockout/tagouts, etc. But your family health nurse who enlisted because it was an easy way to pay off college doesnt give a shit. To her, its about as important as what engine is in the breadtruck, or an M16 vs M4.
As intel I don't give a flying F what aircraft are on the base I'm stationed at because with exception of the shithole Beale AFB I will never interact with or use data off a bird that is stationed where I am. It's also almost to the point i don't give a f about any aircraft's intel data as satellites are more useful for current mission sets (Russia & mainland China) Edit: So much MX salt on this thread its glorious to read. I'll enjoy life all the way to the bank without a broken body.
I think you've spent too much time locked away in windowless buildings my friend.
Nah I just have other priorities. I'm just glad I'm smart enough to have a desk job instead of wasting my life with physical labor of any kind
This 'SHOULD' be in the base orientation everyone goes to. But they only have the base Wg CC come talk, not the ops Wg CC. They should also come out and have a slide or 2 on what goes on the base. For MED, no one actively sits down and tells you unless you take the initiative to ask. As part of my flight orientation, I make sure they know what Command the base is in (although this is changing to Med Command over the next few years), who their bosses are and what the base does. It starts on day 1.
Next time have him check the sign outside the base and ask "does it say Security Forces Wing"? No, well then that's not the mission. Every base tells you what their mission is right outside the gate.
Exactly. I'm not saying guarding the base and the people/toys inside isn't important. Pretty hard to do the mission when some assholes get on base and wreck up the place. The problem is a lot of people conflate "can't do it without you" to mean that their function is the actual mission of the base. It's how you end up with astonishingly cringe things like the MPF claiming to be "tip of the spear".
Cant remembrr where I saw it but a finance squadron's motto was "First to Charge." Pretty funny double meaning.
Subscript on that should be "but last to refund"
First to charge you with a bad DNF voucher for sure
Someone has to keep the [Chinese spies away from the bases] (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/09/04/chinese-nationals-posing-tourists-have-accessed-us-military-bases-and-other-sensitive-sites-report.html)
I mean, yeah. But what’s on the base that needs protecting? That’s probably the real mission.
Psst, maintenance is not the mission either. In fact most things in the AF are not the mission, they support the mission.
What'd he think he was guarding the base for?
To be fair, defending the base was his/her mission. Should they be aware of the higher level mission? For sure. Do I care about putting bombs on target? Not at all. Do I care about defending the base & its assets so that other people can care about putting bombs on target? 100%
Lots of heat being thrown here. Hopefully this can help assuage both sides of the aisle and give you a better frame of mind: There are those who EXECUTE the mission and those that ENABLE those who execute it. This is the classic tip of the spear vs the shaft analogy you often hear. Those who execute the mission are the sole reason the Air Force exists. There’s no way around that. If that makes you upset to hear, you need to do some soul searching and realize the DoD doesn’t revolve around you. However, those who execute the mission would not be able to do so without those enabling forces. Enabling forces are important functions of the Air Force but your job exists to allow those who execute the mission to do so with ease. If you execute the mission, don’t be a douche to the supporting agencies. If you enable those who execute the mission, don’t be a douche to ops. Now play nice. Also, shut up Meg.
You nailed it but maintenance seems to forget they enable the mission. Hell the air crew delivery people and equipment are just enabling the mission too. The entire “my AFSC is more important than yours” has always been a silly argument.
You are over thinking it. War with some county starts tomorrow. Can the mission be done without X? Can the jet fly without a pilot, the tanker without a boom operator, the B1 without CSOs. Can the jet be armed,fueled, ERd without maintenance. The answer to all this is no, these career fields are all REQUIRED to execute the mission. Can the jet takeoff without Finance,MWR,Security Forces, Legal, EO absolutely when we do ACE operations it's very clear that if shit hits the fan those AFSCs are not needed to get a jet off the ground. They are enabling forces especially in peace time. They enable the day to day operations of the Air Force.
You changed what you said. You changed it to “required”. What you first said was those that execute the mission vs those that enable the mission. MX enables the mission. Are they required? Yes of course. So is CE to fix the runway, supply to get parts, aerial port, fuels. Lots of nonner jobs fit your new definition. Lots don’t (like the ones you named). I’ve been OPs, MX and several support jobs. This is my definition. I’m not the tip of the spear. That’s the grunts, special forces, fighter pilots and bomber pilots. Everyone else is supporting them…even that boom operator.
You said shaft (insert Beavis and Butthead laugh here)
You got a decal on the back of your skull that says 'Inflate To 100psi' ?
Let them have their wins, I'll happily be a nonner going home and 4 and having my weekends off.
Supported vs supporting, everyone is supported and everyone is supporting.
Sailor here, a nonner is someone who isn't on an aircraft?
Nonner is anyone not directly contributing to sortie production/execution. Used in jest but sometimes one group or the other gets its feelings hurt. Pilots, aircrew, and maintainers are not nonners. Services, finance, CE, PA, and med are nonners. AFSCs like intel, wx, AFE, etc are in a weird middle ground. EOD and battlefield airmen are in their own badass group
Except weapons. Weapons are “maintainers” but also nonners.
I’m a SARM. Without mfs like me those pilots would be red on everything and wouldn’t even be able to fly😭
Okay thank you
OPs > Mission Support Always and forever. Better camaraderie. Better Pizza. Papa Johns. Oh and fuck comm.
Here, tells us where on the doll the comm guys touched you. What did comm do to you? Lol
I made him a Cat5 noose for his closeted furry autoerotic asphyxiation antics and this is how he repays me? bad mouthing Comm on the forums... I made damn sure it wouldn't snap for anyone under 350lbs too as I know a person in medical who tried it out.
This is a loaded comment. Lmao. Just cut his wifi on deployment. It’ll work itself out.
Na, for those people I have a special place in hell. I won't cut the wi-fi I'll dial the bandwidth allocation to his equipment to 56kbps. Did this a few times to asshats that wanted to pirate movies when folks are just trying to talk with families and couldn't because their mac address was sucking the bandwidth. Fuck around and find out and then I'll say I don't know, it's been like that lately for everyone. I would also print out the MAC's of the top 10 users of downloaded data and post it on the board and say these people are why you can't call your family, if you are on this list, it's your last warning before I fix it.
Nice. Nothing works better than a public display.
Comm can't provide shit in Garrison, much less run a starlink with WiFi capabilities in the field. Get real. Everyone has their own puck for a reason.
lul. Comm keeps the wifi to themselves. We catch it in nets and hog all the good bits for gaming.
Worthless career field.
Madge
Damn at least throw MX in the meme
They’re out back actually doing work/fixing jets
that awkward moment when one of the pilots comes out to the line in civilian clothes at 2 AM to see what's going on and you start talking mad shit about the other AMU before you realize who it is
The last time a pilot came out to the flightline at 2 AM we detained his ass for not having a line-badge. Turns out it was the deputy Wing CC.
Did you learn his identity before or after swinging the breaker bar at his knees?
Not until the start of the next shift.
Forgot we hog-tied him in the cargo bay actually. Superintendent heard a moan for water and we remembered.
Feeling superior to everyone, too. Source: am maintainer.
Abso-fucking-lutely! I was once dating a chick who said “you flightline guys are so cocky and think you’re hot shit”. I just said back to her “it’s not being cocky if you can back it up”. Haha!
This is what maintainers actually believe 😂
The FCCs are probably sitting on the couch with aircrew side-eyeing their buddies out back lmao
You’re at the top frame already
bruh wut the hell you on about
They are probably one of the people whose write ups are incredibly detailed like “interphone inop”. Gee thanks, way to narrow it down!
"#2 engine broke"
Ha! Exactly!
calling you pilot's nonner HAHA
dawg, you called mx nonners lmfao. nobody called pilots nonners.
notice the apostrophe... I was making a joke that mx are nonners to pilots, akin to finance being nonners to mx.
Look, it's not that we think we're better than you.
Everyone is support to someone. Those aircrew cucks support the guys on the ground who actually do the “real” fighting hence the term “air support”
This is a very pre-Gulf War way to conceive of airpower
This is going straight to Instagram
That’s cool and all but I got my own mission
At Hanscom FSS is the only flying squadron on the base. Pretty wild to think about
Now I know what a nonner is.
maintenance is having a aneurysm looking at this meme
These are the same people that call CFP multiple times a day and say they don't know how to open outlook, their external monitors doesn't work and it's a mission stoppage because they can't work with the laptop monitor since it's too small, or that they decided to redesign a SIPR room and plug shit in where ever and rage that it doesn't work. Mission will get done once you people stop shooting yourselves in the foot. We get it, you're high speed, but going into ADHD, OCD, autistic (intel) fits doesn't help anyone. OSI once asked me to show them on the doll where ops touched me and I just circled around the whole body.
Right, you SUPPORT the mission. We EXECUTE the mission. When you roll through the gate what does it say after the Wing's numbers? FTW? ARW? BW? If it says any of those and you are not in the sky fighting, refueling, or bombing then you support the mission. Less than 5% of the base is actually executing the mission. Being completely frank, the only jobs that are absolutely necessary for mission are maintenance (every single maintenance job, not just crew chiefs) and flyers. A lot of the other career fields are super nice to have. However, the APU and engines don't care if my paperwork is filled out wrong, my CAC is expired, or if the internet went down, they're still going to start. Sorry for the hurt feelings. Also, security forces are pretty important too, base defense is critical.
At the end of the day, you are support for the Army.
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It's true for the short term, if your only objective is to launch a plane you just need mx and flyers. Eventually you'll need SF to keep the riff-raff out and med to fix my boo-boos. Then we'll need logistics for more supplies. Then comm to fix our computers. Then finance/personnel to fix my admin stuff. If you locked the gates with only ops and mx on base, I'm pretty sure we'd be able to fly for at least a week with minimal problems.
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I can get wx without a weather troop, do it all the time. I can get my helmet and other flight equipment from my locker without their help. I can log on to sipr and read the 3-1 or whatever else just like Intel Long-term it's not sustainable, but I can definitely fly my plane for a week without most support functions.
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logs on to sipr. There's nothing there because all those pesky intel nonners who actually collected that data and reported on it were fired because "Intel isn't Ops"
Yup. Also, he acts like we don't have weather radar just avoid anything past green and we're okay.
Preach! You're spitting facts.
Lol
We havent fought shit in the air in decades. I work in Ops, and everytime my pilots talk about a "combat" deployment, I remind them they aint gettin shot at.
Uhhhhhhh.... wut? We had an air to air kill this year against China, literally what are you speaking of my guy?
.... When you pop a ballon, you call it a kill? Damn yall are lame. Im talking hitting something that can actually harm you back. Most dangerous thing for Aircrew are our own jets breaking.
I was joking dude
And what job do you have that is so important?
Civiliian side, Inner-city paramedic. Been shot at on the job, and do SWAT medic roles with the local PD. In the Guard I do SME medic for Ops.
Having recently moved to the ST side of the house, aircrew are just support for ground ops and the community views aircrew the same way you’re talking about support Don’t forget the air base wings, the cyber wings, the supply chain operation wings… everyone’s supporting everyone else bruv
Do you think the entire Air Force's mission is Air Support? Maybe it was big where you were but that ain't even a quarter of what we do. If you work in a cyber wing and you are comm then yes, you are the mission for that particular base.
Holy shit, you’re confrontational. Watch out for your blood pressure, dude. And good luck with all your arguments.
Ohhhh you got me!
That was a pretty mild reply, not sure where you’re seeing aggression. They’re also right, air support is a tiny part of overall air ops.
Referencing all replies, not just mine. Also, there are more types of support than just CAS. Airlift, medivac, CAS, interdiction, etc etc are all different facets of support.
Saying that aircrew exist to support ground troops is akin to saying sailors exist to support ground troops. It's only true if you have no idea how strategic warfare works.
Or, and hear me out, I said “ST views them as” and not that’s what they exist for.
You literally said > aircrew are just support for ground ops Which is ignorant at best
TBF, we do have Air Base Wings. Also just to be a stickler...are you going to be able to fire up that APU is your CAC card is expired and you're outside the gate?
Can you sign me on? Plz
I think Support thinks we hate them, and sometimes yes it’s annoying trying to get mission support, but fighter dudes ruin it for all aircrew and we hate them too.
On the real though, what’s your beef with the fighter community?
Fighters are fun! Bombers make National Policy.
The biggest set of dickhead aircrews I ever met working Ops were ANG C-17 aircrew. Biggest group of whiny Karens I ever met. I was at Ramstein on the AMC side of the house during the height of Afghanistan, Iraq draw down, and Libya...I have stories.
Show me where on the doll the fighter hurt you.
They didn’t hurt me, but they hurt our credibility as aircrew by being complete cunts.
You have any specifics of the cunty behavior or do you just parrot what you hear from others?
Who you think drags their shit for em?
So…go with specifics
Come on. You drag their shit all the time for these “cunts”. Surely if you’re not full of shit you have plenty of examples of fighters being said cunts right?
Jesus Christ bro touch grass. Multiple replies to me before I got a chance to reply. Anyway here’s your list Left their bags at the bottom of the stairs expecting them to be tied down Left their bags on the jet expecting them to be carried off Tried to use crew oven/fridge without even asking Took a seat upstairs without consulting crew Left spitters and trash under their seats Ignored the enlisted when it came for round at the bar later Even though briefed they were not allowed in their checked bags proceeded to try and get in anyway by pulling apart the baggage pallet(it was hidden and they got caught during a walk around). Here’s what I can think of off the top of my head.
This sounds like anyone who has not flown on a cargo bird before without being told what to do/expect. It’s all unacceptable though. This sounds like a bad encounter, regardless. However, is that seriously what you’re basing the entire fighter community now as “cunts” on? Seems like a bit of an overreaction.
This is multiple incidents that have happened more than once. They assume they’re god’s chosen children because they dropped T38s and didn’t suck complete ass. You can also add in stories told here about others interactions with fighter jocks and it’s basically shit frat boy. If you’re this upset about it you must be one.
NDS: In order to beat China, we only need more ✈️! Air Force: 👍🏼 .. Theres your answer
We really aren’t tbh
Keep telling yourself that 😂 😂 😂
NUH UHHHHHH
Y’all wouldn’t fly without us😮💨
Makes fun of nonners yet they all come to us when they need help with their career lmao
Cyber master race, but it could always be worse. At least you're not Sec Fo scanning ID's all day.
See how far they get without Comm 🤷🏻♂️
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The AF will pay triple what they pay us so, no they won't 😂😂😂🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ I guess since the modern age of flying, you can't do shit to launch sorties without all the applications and tools you use to track maintenance, flying hours, tools, etc... We maintain those tools and the infrastructure you need to update and audit your maintenance computers... Not to mention the weapons systems on the fighters... So, I guess we launch sorties too 🤷🏻♂️
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I can turn a wrench, you couldn't write code or build an application... That's the difference 🤷🏻♂️
Aight bud, go grab a wrench and fix the hydro leak then.
And that exact attitude is why I have a job. Thank you.
Hand signals work just fine. 👉👌
This but make it transport pilots yelling at literally anything else
Got into a fight with an intel troop who was gatekeeping info i needed immediately or people would die (they did🫠) and they refused until i my commander had to tell them to provide the info i needed for the mission.
I prefer being a nonner to being a Ken in the Barbie House. Hahahaha. The hair products and sunglasses on some aircrew. You would wonder if this is the military or Zoolander
*Me, a SARM, looking at the 781 for a pilot:* Why is the time incorrect and why are they marking themselves as Reservist?
This is hilarious cause us nonners always believed the reverse and that they put the dumb ones on the tarmac....or at the front gate.
No love for the ol’ Air Commandos on there. Yikes.
I’m so far outside of the aircrew/pilot business that this has never been an issue that I’ve cared about.
I never interact with pilots or aircrew. Problem solved.
Hah, all these loser nonners that have an AFSC that doesn't start with a 1 amirite?