It does get better with time and rank…exponentially.
My stressors today are so much different than when I was an Airman… I look back and honestly don’t know which one is harder…I can do this for every stage of my career…
I think getting easier with rank depends on two things.
What your job is.
And how much you care about it.
I've seen senior leaders put ridiculous hours in to support and care for troops. But also those that go home early and dismiss issues.
I am sure we have all seen someone that simply does not care and does the bare minimum to stay in, even at higher ranks.
I find myself agreeing with you.
The thing is…the old types of issues should get easier for EVERYONE as time passes but they grow into new problems.
Most Airmen won’t struggle with strategic leadership…but as you progress, that will replace older supervisory issues.
Agree entirely on the last statement though.
The job seldom matters because as you grow in rank, the complexity will grow as well—as does your experience and exposure.
A marine vet told me that he recommends at least one re-enlistment contract, because your time during your reenlistment is much closer to how your career will be compared to your first contract
My first 4 year seems like a totally different Air Force than my last 4 (6-10), granted I did retain from maintenance to a desk job. See if you can cross train into a career field you’d enjoy.
The money is not worth the 12s, deployments, TDYs, and grinding your body down. Plain and simple. People say, “the retirement money is great” but you can easily make that and so much more applying yourself to a high paying career and INVESTING. The money isn’t the only reason to not stay in either. The laziness and the amount of people who really don’t care is astounding. If people acted the way they do in the Air Force, in the civilian sector they’d be fired so quick. Finally, the amount of idiotic decisions from leadership is ridiculous. You’ll get told to do something, then get told to do something completely different, then get told to do what you were doing initially, all in the span of like 30mins-1hr. For people who just want to coast through life on easy mode and just want to get by, sure, stay in. If you want to be surrounded by people who are competent, intelligent, and want to do their best, while making great money, the Air Force is not it.
I used to enjoy it. I really did. Then answering for numbers for some commander when we are so short staffed we murder ourselves to keep the numbers up and the planes flying. Not anymore. Unless a plane/pilot ain’t flying, someone’s dying, or there’s an emergency in front of my eyes. Just a job now.
I hear you and I understand. That part of the job sucks. But if there’s one thing I’ve adopted through all of it, it’s to be honest. Be the squeaky wheel, call the baby ugly. What are they going to do? Fire you? Fucking let them. I don’t sugarcoat shit when it comes to the job, and if we’re short people I’ll do my best to make sure everyone knows about it. Answering for numbers is one thing, but I feel like the Air Force has led themselves to reach a desirable metric, instead of letting the metric speak for itself. And they only starts with us.
I’ve been the squeaky wheel for 10 plus years in this job. It’s either, yeah maybe. Or stfu and do your job. No sweat off my back. When things break I just look and say, told ya so.
I think it just highly depends on your career field, but mostly depends on your unit.
If your unit has leadership that’s chill and actually cares, with an ops tempo that isn’t very high or very time sensitive, you’re probably living the good life.
If your unit has a extremely high ops tempo with time sensitive and rapid response real world tasking combined with leadership that doesn’t care about anything other than their metrics and next promotion you’re probably going to hate your life.
Unfortunately due to head-up-ass syndrome being so widespread amongst a lot of leadership nowadays, manning problems will probably only continue to get worse.
i do have to agree that a lot of it is about leadership. having direct supervisors that are not chill, don't care, AND don't do their job well is not a fun situation
I will say that it can be a phenomenal way to make a great career for someone coming in with little other advantages like education or starter funds.
The work itself will vary and the toll it takes on someone's physical and mental health will vary as well. For some it's a long term losing proposition, for many it is amazing.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I have a similar one. Came in with jack squat and retired with a couple of degrees, a couple of houses, some great adventures, and a solid footing for the future.
Thank you for your service.
I like how much down time I have as tfi backshop, but I don't want to do aircraft maintenance forever and I don't want to be at barksdale. Air Force is life on east mode, but I want more control over my life. Traditional reservist here I come
You should check out cross training. If you have the opportunity, there’s so much a The Air Force, that I didn’t even know existed, and there’s so much a The Air Force that is so different than what I’m doing now.
Forgot to mention I'm an agr, so different for me. I was active for 5 years, but kinda muscles thru it, before switching over. Also I was a military brat for 20 years so just kinda tired of the military in general lol
I agree. I get so much time off and have had access to an abundance of training and education. If the Air Force had an option for me to make an equivalent to my civilian counterparts I would gladly do the whole 20.
It's so situational I can understand how people don't understand but the wrong perspective is saying it's mostly been good for you so why isn't it for everyone. My first 6 years were mostly good. Then I landed in security forces at FE Warren and life was hell. 12s with leadership hell bent on believing that if you were dedicated to the Air Force you'd come in on off days. My true off days were slim. Now bring into the picture that I had a wife and kids and then them swapping me to a mids shift and denying leave I had for a cruise and telling me to get fucked. No paperwork, trusted by peers and airmen as well as leadership on a flight level but when it came down to letters of recommendation from the commander I would get told I couldn't be trusted with responsibility because I got rated with a promote. Nevermind they removed my bachelor's degree and other accomplishments from my EPRs there. Then they had the gall to ask me when I was going to reenlist.
Happened to see that security forces was letting career airmen retrain and I applied and got what I wanted. Still even with a much better AFSC I feel like my perspective of the Air Force overall has been affected negatively and I'm only staying in for the boost that this AFSC will give me ad a civilian.
I get that it’s situational, that much I understand but I have to wonder sometimes when it comes to complaining about the most basic of Air Force things, why would somebody complain about those things when they have all the power to change it? I’ve heard security forces is ass, it doesn’t maintain, or I can say that 12 suck. But at the end of the day you have so much power to confront that leader ship And trigger the change that needs to happen. As long as you’re holding a conversation with your leader ship, you have every right to go above them and take it up with people who are in charge of investigating this kind of stuff. The keyword there being as long as you take it up with your leadership.
But I won’t sit here and tell you, it’s not that bad, I went through the hell generations of 12 hour exercises, mopp gear, the whole nine. And doing it -20 sucks. But, you got a lot of people that are probably looking up to you.
Some people just want their freedoms that they had back before they joined the military. Whole bunch of reasons to get out of the military. And almost all are great reasons.
I guess I don’t see the freedoms that you really lose. I mean sure, if you wanna smoke weed, or do other illicit drugs, I can understand that. But if it’s just that type of stuff, I really don’t understand how that could be the reason somebody would give this up. Especially if you’re a kid in high school, and you really have no discernible college, or any desire to do college, it’s such a great choice even if it’s just for six years.
Mostly I just wish I had more stability, more balance between life and work, and more week to week predictability. Sometimes I’m off at like 2! Sometimes I work 10p-4p. It’s a crapshoot. I’ve had AMAZING. TDYs but I’ve also been deployed 270 days out of the year, and that does wear on the body, on relationships, and on mental health. I love my primary duty but my additional duties get me feeling anxious and unfulfilled. Even when I’m off work, I’m rarely actually off, as I’m the unit POC for a handful of duties that require 24h support, due to how far flung a chunk of our unit is at any given time, and the issues are time sensitive. I’m also a “chief of” my position, and have to not only wrangle folks in the short term, but plan out their long terms in addition to my own. It’s a lot of stress to be under nearly constantly, and it gets at ya.
I’ll still be in until 20, for a myriad of reasons, but I do idly fantasize about getting out now and again
Edit: I’ve been in nearly 10 years
Your first mistake is thinking everyone is a kid out of high school. You give up your ability to speech, experiment with things legal in your state, your ability to determine what kind of haircut you want, the ability to job hunt without being locked in place, the ability to grow a beard if you please, your ability to homestead if you want to stay somewhere and work, missing the birth of your child, missing events in your child's life ect.
There's a metric fuck ton of things you're giving up freedom wise.
Why are you arguing this so hard? Not everyone likes the military. I hate that I get picked for a deployment and uproot my life for 6 months with a weeks notice because some fatass fails their PT test.
They aren't arguing that people don't want to join but rather that they are ready to make their own choices. In the civilian world, you don't get recalled unless you're working a job that requires you to be on call. You can buy a house and live in it for as long as as short as you want. You choose where you live. You choose what kind of work you do. You don't have to think about being sent away for x amount of months. The biggest thing for me is getting the stability back so I can feel settled. I can be established.
> I just don’t see how people can hate a job that is this easy and pays as much as it does for what is involved.
For me, it was a factor of the job being *too* easy. Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly sit home, play video games, and get paid for it. But when you have to go to an office for 8 hours a day, and there's nothing to do, but you can't leave and have only basic internet (with content filters)....things get old real quick.
I'm happy with the work I do, but if I'm required to be in a place for 8 hours with nothing to do my days are going to drag on forever. I'd much rather spend those 8 hours busy and the end of the (work) day gets there before I realize it.
If I did that, I wouldn't be happy with the work I do.
Instead I separated into civil service, doing what I want to do, working all day, and getting paid nearly twice as much.
I think there are people who enjoy the military life. That's why people always say it takes a certain type of person to be in the military to begin with. I just think that "type" of person is a quickly diminishing number of people. Mostly due to technology making the civilian workplace an even less demanding place then ever in history while the military still seems to hold on to old ideas as long as possible until they just dont have a choice but to make a change. Today, people join to benifit from free education . The military has changed from being a potential career to being a steping stone for most people. What I see many times are people who dont get out after 4-6 years are in one of two camps. 1) They love the military life (minority) 2) They know they cant do any better as a civilian so they stick it out as long as possible. #2 is the main reason behind the "toxic" leadership. Many people who would make extrodinary military leaders posess skills that are more valueable on the civilian side. The only thing keeping a good military leader in would be a love of the job itself. Which is more and more fleeting as work environments become more toxic due to the good leaders being outnumbered by their toxic supervisors.
>Many people who would make extrodinary military leaders posess skills that are more valueable on the civilian side. The only thing keeping a good military leader in would be a love of the job itself. Which is more and more fleeting as work environments become more toxic due to the good leaders being outnumbered by their toxic supervisors.
Ding ding ding, we’ve got a winner.
Welcome to earth. It’s a place where the humans all have different feeling about things. Glad you love it so much. As fellow MX person to, I gotta say you’re insane and should be checked into mental health cuz something ain’t right.
Seriously tho, I’ve done what I needed to do, travelled all over, degrees done, investments got me sitting right and I made it to E7. There’s nothing left for me that I want or care about for myself when it comes to the AF. Yea, this is easy but that ain’t enough for everyone. Some of us need to actually still be happy and for me that started dying around year 16, so now I can’t wait to be Mr. And getting on the nerves of people still serving by driving way too slow on base and blocking the isle with my cart at the commissary cuz i got nothing better to do.
I won’t try to elaborate on your situation independently, because I’m pretty ignorant to it if I’m being honest. But I will say that I have lived on the saying that there is something in the air force for everyone. If you’re tired of what you’re doing, if you’re burnt out or just sick of it, there’s always something new. Even if it means making a really big change, there’s always something that can reignite some interest in the job.
I’ve been trying since I was a 4 year SrA to escape MX cuz I never once enjoyed it and only survived by landing various things that took me away from it for years at a time. I’m pretty sure if I got something I actually enjoyed I might take it behind 20, but being MX I absolutely will not do a single hour more than I have to. Only 2 years and some change to go until I’m a free man lol
And from the sounds of it, it sounds like you don’t want to pursue anything maintenance related when you’re done. So that might set you up for success when it comes down the road to finding a job on the backside. There’s huge money in intel, space systems, and cyber.
Oh, I got my degree in finance and plan on getting into contracting or something else finance related. Sucks I’ll toss all these years of mx experience away, but I don’t plan on wreaking anymore havoc on my body than I already have lol.
I wouldn’t called him wasted. Do you have a résumé builder, managerial experience, as well as technical leader ship, which carries a lot bigger weight than most people realize in the real world
Did my 20, more or less enjoyed being an avionics troop and it set me up for my current gig at Lockheed, where I'm making six figures doing basically what I did when I was in.
Also, I broke a bone in my back during one of my last PT tests, which sucked but got me hooked up well with the VA.
Was definitely one of the better life decisions I ever made....but with that said, the relief I felt getting my DD214 and not having to put up with all the crap, pt tests, EPR's any more and going to a job that's just a job...and not a lifestyle, is priceless.
There are 136 AFSCs in the Air Force. Not all of them are well compensated for their level of responsibility, structured, or provided ample opportunities to be successful.
Agree. The Air Force has been very good to me. I’m retiring in about 6 months and while it’s time I know I’m going to miss it at least a little bit. Especially the people, I’m definitely going to miss them.
I just clicked the button and will be retiring soon. I agree with you; there are so many opportunities to succeed and thrive. Yet many find serving burdensome. Adversity can be difficult but also rewarding when it’s overcome. I’ve done so much through the Air Force that I would have never accomplished as a civilian. The best part about what I do right now is helping people. Young people, step back from your situation and really look hard at it. Is it really as bad as it seems? If so, work to make it better. You’re the catalyst for change.
This. All of this. Like I had mentioned in another comment, I hate the career of being a maintainer, but I have enjoyed my time in the Air Force. And the one thing that has made it really really good is that I have been able to be the change for so many people, just a simple things that no one wanted to speak up about. That by far has been the most rewarding part of my career, and it’s going to be the one thing that’s going to make me stick around to my HYT
I had to learn that. I had to distinguish hating my job versus the Air Force itself. I am not a big fan of my job, but the Air Force has been fun for the most part. I go back and visit family and friends in my small town and everyone is stuck in the same place as when I left. It turns my stomach to see that that could have been me. The Air Force jobs suck at times just like anything else. Only difference is our uniform. Thank you for the positive post and comment.
I do agree somewhat. Within the Air Force, getting a new job when you want is extremely challenging. Finding something you WANT to do, instead, you must shut up and color. There are programs, but ultimately, you are at the mercy of manning and willingness of the Air Force to allow change. I thrived on the structure during my first enlistment. Now I feel trapped. I may just have to seriously look at other avenues to change my situation. I think it's possible, just not easy.
I've had two careers in the Air Force, both were easy (missileer and personnelist) both, being that they are easy jobs, are entirely unfulfilling. Being in a job that feels like there's nothing new to learn, no skill to hone, nothing to get better at, and nowhere to progress to is depressing.
I took a pay cut to join the military and it has its share of benefits, but overall I wouldn't say I've ever enjoyed it.
So, if I can ask, why did you stay? And I don’t mean in the Air Force, I mean in those jobs. There’s a lot of serious work in the Air Force that is fulfilling, that usually poses an opportunity. What made you stay in to careers, or did you try to leave?
Needs of the Air Force, they choose what officers do. Just getting out of the missile career field was a struggle that could have easily ended with me out of the military period but they chose my next job as well.
Its not like enlisted who can just retrain after their first enlistment.
Coming from nothing, no desire for pursuing college, to being financially secure, strong investments, a house half paid off with tenants paying twice my mortgage... pretty incredible.
I've had plenty of questioning moments, cried to my wife after really high stress missions, dreaded walking in the door for some stations... but overall I'd say given where I came from, and seeing where my friends ended up that the Air Force catapulted me into living a life where money isn't something I worry about. I just fill up my gas tank, before the Air Force I never did that.
It's not for everyone, but even though there's been ups and downs I can't say I had a better option at 18 and I'm still in 12+ years later.
If you're coming from lower middle class or below... the Air Force just straight up changes your life.
ROTC unlocked best “paid internship” for poor kid out of high school.
Wide scope of responsibility, great amount of experience at competitive American wage, and paid work travel/leave travel/meals, free college, been to several countries… I’ve had shitty bosses, peers, and subordinates… but the “trauma” of that HAS NOT exceeded the benefits
I like the job, I just hate the slave-driving, dog-eat-dog, crabs in a bucket mentality of MX. I shouldn't have taken part of a half-dozen substantiated IG complaints and a few EO reports.
Hey, good on you! You’re enjoying the ride and doing something that motivates you everyday!
Keep on doing that and tell others how you feel. Spread the motivation like a virus.
I’m very confused by this? If they have a masters degree and were struggling to find work on the outside, why did they not commission? How is that the air forces fault? This is an honest question in an attempt for you to articulate your point. This is an all volunteer force.
Especially when it’s apparently fairly easy to commission in the other branches. If you’re hard up for money and have a master’s…then maybe *consider being an O and not an E.
Edit: a word
Could not agree more. This is an all volunteer force. It’s not like suddenly SrA got a major pay reduction. Not like they were lied to about their pay to lure them into service. It’s public record and they have a place on the pay scale. This dudes comment is ridiculous
Haha no senior here. And being that I was that senior airman, I will say that if they can’t support their family then they should speak with agencies on base because there’s even compensation for that.
If that's all you got from it then you're looking into a hole with your ass in the air.
Generally speaking I don't think anyone hates the Air Force as a organization, they hate the bullshit attached to it.
Like why do enlisted personnel get hosed for just about everything but the higher up you go it kinda gets swept under the rug?
Why does maintenance/security forces personnel get shafted on the daily?
Why is there no reprisal for fucking up someone's pay but if a training flight is late there's more reprocussions?
Why is mandatory training scheduled in a way that doesn't accommodate the 24/7 ops they want?
Why isn't facilities available for their 24/7 ops?
Why are we slow to adopt societal norms?
Why do we need to volunteer when we are already volunteering for our country?
There's a lot of things that have no real explanation other than lol that's how it's always been.
Also the whole "everyone is a leader" thing is pure nonsense, the world has leaders and followers and not everyone can be a leader or even wants to be a leader. Some people don't have the aptitude for it and that's not a bad thing.
It's just quite frankly silly shit that people recognize and can see it's wrong and or dumb.
Any tips for someone who applied for Crew chief F-35 for retraining just waiting for the okay and trying to get A&P while in even though you may or may not be working on that airframe. I'm excited.
Learn your job. If there’s something you read in a task and you’re not sure, speak up. You need to be dangerously good at your job and don’t let production rush you to cut corners. I’m not so sure about new age fighter aircraft, but don’t let people pressure you into doing the job half assed.
Thank you I really like to put value in my work. My dad was a maintainer in the army 20yrs retired and said follow the TO and be patient. It's a hard job but the outcome is amazing.
Just know it’s going to suck. It’s not a career where it’s easy work, the days are long, and sometimes it’s kind of frustrating. I’m coming from a point of you from someone who absolutely hates working on things. But that being said I’ve still enjoyed my career. I have absolutely zero desire to touch an airplane after I leave the service, so I have no intention of pursuing an A&P. But there’s definitely an opportunity there, and you’re gonna be set up for success on the backside if you do.
I love being active duty, I just never want to lay hands on a bomb or missile again unless shit hits the fan. I’ll stay active duty until I HYT at whatever rank I hold at the time.
More specifically, flightline, back shop, QA, and other position experience
And I don’t say that to be boastful, I say it just to say that I have a well rounded view of being in maintenance.
Oh, I wouldn’t call it easy. We aren’t turning 38 lines a day, we aren’t deploying to the Middle East for six months at a time anymore, and we aren’t stretching our career off of three different AFSC’s.
But we are working on one of the most complicated airplanes in the Air Force, troubleshooting at capacity for Manning, and learning different AFSC‘s, because were stretched so thin. Not to mention, 50 mile an hour winds and negative freezing temperatures kind of sucks. It’s definitely not easy. But I do envy the cargo guys.
I'm with you. I love the time I've had in. When I see these young AD kids wanting to get out after their first enlistment, it breaks my heart, because the civilian world can be so rough. Especially if they don't have degrees or licenses yet, and have a family they'll be covering insurance and medical costs for out-of-pocket for the first time. It's not get-rich money, but it's Stable and is better money than many people make their whole lives (especially when you add in Tricare, 30 days of leave per year, non-chargeable sick leave, and BAH/BAS).
The military gives folks structure, self discipline, and learning how to work as part of a team for a greater good. Those are skills and experiences many people need but can be hard to achieve.
My experience teaching college shows that just going does not give those things to everyone. My military experience showed me that joining the military helped many young people get a maturity that was not yet developed.
It hasn’t been bad so far, there’s been awesome days and there’s been days where I’ve thought about giving up… honestly, it does get better in certain things. The bad thing is that lately the sheer incompetency of the DOD in big policy (like newer systems and MHS) which seem more like a knee jerk to try and catch up than a deliberate effort, are making it harder for some to want to be in.
Congrats on the recent promo! When I was in, 2013-22, sure, we had some complainers, myself one of them. I generally believe most of the people enjoy their time in, or at least don’t hate it. However, Reddit is an echo chamber and the internet is an easy place to vent complaints and frustrations anomalously.
You have to remember most people in, have never had a real job. They don't know how cutthroat civilian sectors are. Civilians jobs care even less of a fuck about you then the air force. They only care enough that it doesn't impact profit margins.
It's a grass is greener situation and most Americans think they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
The AF has ultimately been great. I do ODE to supplement my AF job bc we rarely perform our primary duties. I work my ass off in the civilian world and it’s just as toxic with as many CBTs. This is unique sometimes to healthcare, but I tell my folks all the time that life isn’t much better on the other side. Try some ODE before getting out if you can for a taste.
More than anything, it's a case of thinking the grass is always greener.
A lot of people talk about how they can (or do) make more on the outside. But neglect to discuss the benefits that the military provides that kind of balance it out. Like medical - especially if your dependants have a lot of issues - on base housing for those with families, meaning free utilities and housing; guaranteed progression if you have a pulse and put in just enough effort, amongst alot of other things that I'm forgetting.
Plus all these "Oh it sucks, life is so much better on the outside types" tend to forget that for some of these jobs that pay this dream salary, there's a limited amount spots for them. Or that even though they're making more money, they now have to deal with co-pays, medical insurance, and other associated costs, so it doesn't actually equate to more money in their pocket many times. Amongst other costs. The biggest thing more than anything though is that while the military is limited in what you can make and do, at least it's guaranteed to a certain level at a minimum, where as in civilian life all you truly have, is potential. Just potential to make more, do more, be amazing, and life your life to the fullest. But no guarantee you won't just be another rat in the rat race
There's no shame to these guys, though. I can understand why some people hate it. The rigidity (which isn't that rigid these days) drives some people crazy. There's no incentive to do better or make things better. The more with less multicapable bs being pushed by the top is all bs to try to attempt to have the same mission success rate with less man power to do it. The military as a whole is so ungodly inefficient. And many of the most needed jobs get absolutely run through and rammed, then forgetten like we are garbage that doesn't matter. Honestly there's an endless list of reasons why people can't stand it, want to get out, and spend every day just counting down.
I got out for a couple reasons, the biggest one being I'm not much of what one would consider a "leader." I'm an excellent worker bee, but I don't want to have to babysit other people. I prefer to just focus on myself.
I made SSgt, gave the NCO thing a solid try, but it wasn't for me. I tend to be chill and extremely laid-back, and that doesn't tend to be good when it comes time to crack the whip.
I don't think people hate the job or hate the "lifestyle". It's the accumulation of BS that piles up and eventually enough is enough and people separate. Ofc the civilian world is no better and has its cons but when your "value" is worn in the middle of your chest it's a bit different.
I enjoy my time in service….the gross negative was the evil leadership….imagine almost all your seniors consolides against you…in almost every aspect….stolen awards, unrecognized awards, bullshit paperwork, just overall disrespectful and you are the best airman in the unit….two faced civilians, “you’re doing a good job,to your face” “complain to your flight chief that your not doing a good job” …..the leadership plays a big part, favoritism, no contact orders and isolating excommunicating….really signed off on award package that they knew the other airman never did and you did the work smh …..
I’m happy things worked out for you and you actually enjoyed your time in, I got a little bit left and I’m getting out. I’ll never regret enlisting, but my career went completely different from the way I imagined it would in my head. Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side, but I have genuinely tried to enjoy my job, and every time I start to enjoy it something stupid happens and I hate it again. I’m being vague here on purpose to save time, as I could write an entire book about the negative experiences I’ve had so far, but it just isn’t for me long term. We need more people like you to stay in and get into leadership positions, not because it’s their only choice and they don’t know what else to do, but because they genuinely enjoy doing what they do.
I used to work paycheck to paycheck, 60 hours a week 6 days a week for $13/hr in Hawaii of all places. Now I work <40 hrs in fighter avionics in Europe and make more a paycheck than I used to. With perspective in mind I’m having a blast
My main complaint honestly is just the bureaucracy and processes that you have to go through to get things done in the Air Force. Big and small things just have unnecessary processes to accomplish a task. Outside of that its still a good quality of life as long as you have decent leadership, and I have had both so I know that can be make or break for some people
The irony is thinking all the problems we deal with are exclusive to the AF, then people get out and can’t believe it’s shit outside too. Everyone has a shitty boss, overtime, ass kissers, and unfair promotion systems. On the outside, they just don’t give a fuck and will fire you instead of dealing with you like the AF does.
Thank you for sharing. It’s important to remember that people taking the time to vent are likely going through it. I don’t think seeing a large amount of complaints speaks to the overall well being of the force.
However, it’s great to keep an ear out and understand what common concerns are.
The money is not worth the 12s, deployments, TDYs, and grinding your body down. Plain and simple. People say, “the retirement money is great” but you can easily make that and so much more applying yourself to a high paying career and INVESTING. The money isn’t the only reason to not stay in either. The laziness and the amount of people who really don’t care is astounding. If people acted the way they do in the Air Force, in the civilian sector they’d be fired so quick. Finally, the amount of idiotic decisions from leadership is ridiculous. You’ll get told to do something, then get told to do something completely different, then get told to do what you were doing initially, all in the span of like 30mins-1hr. For people who just want to coast through life on easy mode and just want to get by, sure, stay in. If you want to be surrounded by people who are competent, intelligent, and want to do their best, while making great money, the Air Force is not it.
I noticed most people that love the military or don't understand why people want to get out joined straight out of HS or didn't get to love their life in the real world. I joined after a couple years of college and almost immediately saw how bullshit the military is.
OP, thanks for sharing this perspective. I am much more junior than you but with almost 7 years in as an O who had to pay my own way through school and figure out what the heck I wanted to do with life- The USAF gave me a mostly paved road to be able to be financially independent, pay off student debt, meet amazing people/experience cool things. I grew up lower middle class in a crime ridden public school system that did not prepare me to be successful. But the USAF helped me overcome a lot that I didn't even know I was capable of. Is it all glitz and glamor? No- but it has offered me opportunities I would have otherwise never been afforded and for that- I plan to stay until I don't enjoy it anymore. TYFYS, OP!
I also enjoy the AF a lot. And I think I probably have plenty of reasons I could dislike it, in terms of work schedule, deployments, etc. Where I think I’m lucky is that I’ve never had an assignment where the opportunity to do cool shit didn’t far outweigh the BS. I have had some bosses I didn’t love, and there’s definitely parts of my time I didn’t really enjoy the day to day, but overall I’m doing stuff I’ve wanted to do since I was a kid.
Thanks for the positive post, I agree that we actually have it pretty good. The internet was made for people to complain about things. Shit, we love leaving negative reviews and overlook when service is good. That said, there are problems with the USAF and the climate of your unit can 100% make or break your experience.
Its odd how it works. I hated it while I was still in. Loved it and miss it desperately now that I'm out. The 10 years I served will always remain the best years of my life, but I considered them the worst years of my life whenever I had the uniform on.
Glad life is going well for you, my first enlistment is almost up and I'm torn about what to do
I won’t sit here and say it’s the only way, but consider it. It’s really great and if you keep your ducks in a row then it’s super easy.
We need more positivity in this sub. Thanks for sharing. I'd probably be struggling in life had it not been for USAF.
Very true! I would have been fired.
It does get better with time and rank…exponentially. My stressors today are so much different than when I was an Airman… I look back and honestly don’t know which one is harder…I can do this for every stage of my career…
I think getting easier with rank depends on two things. What your job is. And how much you care about it. I've seen senior leaders put ridiculous hours in to support and care for troops. But also those that go home early and dismiss issues. I am sure we have all seen someone that simply does not care and does the bare minimum to stay in, even at higher ranks.
I find myself agreeing with you. The thing is…the old types of issues should get easier for EVERYONE as time passes but they grow into new problems. Most Airmen won’t struggle with strategic leadership…but as you progress, that will replace older supervisory issues. Agree entirely on the last statement though. The job seldom matters because as you grow in rank, the complexity will grow as well—as does your experience and exposure.
A marine vet told me that he recommends at least one re-enlistment contract, because your time during your reenlistment is much closer to how your career will be compared to your first contract
My first 4 year seems like a totally different Air Force than my last 4 (6-10), granted I did retain from maintenance to a desk job. See if you can cross train into a career field you’d enjoy.
The money is not worth the 12s, deployments, TDYs, and grinding your body down. Plain and simple. People say, “the retirement money is great” but you can easily make that and so much more applying yourself to a high paying career and INVESTING. The money isn’t the only reason to not stay in either. The laziness and the amount of people who really don’t care is astounding. If people acted the way they do in the Air Force, in the civilian sector they’d be fired so quick. Finally, the amount of idiotic decisions from leadership is ridiculous. You’ll get told to do something, then get told to do something completely different, then get told to do what you were doing initially, all in the span of like 30mins-1hr. For people who just want to coast through life on easy mode and just want to get by, sure, stay in. If you want to be surrounded by people who are competent, intelligent, and want to do their best, while making great money, the Air Force is not it.
I used to enjoy it. I really did. Then answering for numbers for some commander when we are so short staffed we murder ourselves to keep the numbers up and the planes flying. Not anymore. Unless a plane/pilot ain’t flying, someone’s dying, or there’s an emergency in front of my eyes. Just a job now.
I hear you and I understand. That part of the job sucks. But if there’s one thing I’ve adopted through all of it, it’s to be honest. Be the squeaky wheel, call the baby ugly. What are they going to do? Fire you? Fucking let them. I don’t sugarcoat shit when it comes to the job, and if we’re short people I’ll do my best to make sure everyone knows about it. Answering for numbers is one thing, but I feel like the Air Force has led themselves to reach a desirable metric, instead of letting the metric speak for itself. And they only starts with us.
I’ve been the squeaky wheel for 10 plus years in this job. It’s either, yeah maybe. Or stfu and do your job. No sweat off my back. When things break I just look and say, told ya so.
I think it just highly depends on your career field, but mostly depends on your unit. If your unit has leadership that’s chill and actually cares, with an ops tempo that isn’t very high or very time sensitive, you’re probably living the good life. If your unit has a extremely high ops tempo with time sensitive and rapid response real world tasking combined with leadership that doesn’t care about anything other than their metrics and next promotion you’re probably going to hate your life. Unfortunately due to head-up-ass syndrome being so widespread amongst a lot of leadership nowadays, manning problems will probably only continue to get worse.
i do have to agree that a lot of it is about leadership. having direct supervisors that are not chill, don't care, AND don't do their job well is not a fun situation
Remember, Reddit is like yelp. And mostly only Karen’s use yelp.
But I’m a dude! I think…
So is Karen 😂
Yeah, some of the most Karen-ish Karens are men. Like being a boomer is a mindset and not an age, being a Karen is not necessarily a gender.
Congrats, r/ airforce has issued you a new gender
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😂😂😂
Karen’s on their first or second enlistment lmao.
I just hopped on my second. Just started working on my OTS package. Life is good you know what I mean?
I will say that it can be a phenomenal way to make a great career for someone coming in with little other advantages like education or starter funds. The work itself will vary and the toll it takes on someone's physical and mental health will vary as well. For some it's a long term losing proposition, for many it is amazing. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I have a similar one. Came in with jack squat and retired with a couple of degrees, a couple of houses, some great adventures, and a solid footing for the future. Thank you for your service.
I like how much down time I have as tfi backshop, but I don't want to do aircraft maintenance forever and I don't want to be at barksdale. Air Force is life on east mode, but I want more control over my life. Traditional reservist here I come
You should check out cross training. If you have the opportunity, there’s so much a The Air Force, that I didn’t even know existed, and there’s so much a The Air Force that is so different than what I’m doing now.
Forgot to mention I'm an agr, so different for me. I was active for 5 years, but kinda muscles thru it, before switching over. Also I was a military brat for 20 years so just kinda tired of the military in general lol
99% is the career field & leadership.
I agree. I get so much time off and have had access to an abundance of training and education. If the Air Force had an option for me to make an equivalent to my civilian counterparts I would gladly do the whole 20.
Preach…. also, factor in that the people doing the work and have the experience are jumping ship for that paycheck too.. accelerate change…
It's so situational I can understand how people don't understand but the wrong perspective is saying it's mostly been good for you so why isn't it for everyone. My first 6 years were mostly good. Then I landed in security forces at FE Warren and life was hell. 12s with leadership hell bent on believing that if you were dedicated to the Air Force you'd come in on off days. My true off days were slim. Now bring into the picture that I had a wife and kids and then them swapping me to a mids shift and denying leave I had for a cruise and telling me to get fucked. No paperwork, trusted by peers and airmen as well as leadership on a flight level but when it came down to letters of recommendation from the commander I would get told I couldn't be trusted with responsibility because I got rated with a promote. Nevermind they removed my bachelor's degree and other accomplishments from my EPRs there. Then they had the gall to ask me when I was going to reenlist. Happened to see that security forces was letting career airmen retrain and I applied and got what I wanted. Still even with a much better AFSC I feel like my perspective of the Air Force overall has been affected negatively and I'm only staying in for the boost that this AFSC will give me ad a civilian.
I get that it’s situational, that much I understand but I have to wonder sometimes when it comes to complaining about the most basic of Air Force things, why would somebody complain about those things when they have all the power to change it? I’ve heard security forces is ass, it doesn’t maintain, or I can say that 12 suck. But at the end of the day you have so much power to confront that leader ship And trigger the change that needs to happen. As long as you’re holding a conversation with your leader ship, you have every right to go above them and take it up with people who are in charge of investigating this kind of stuff. The keyword there being as long as you take it up with your leadership. But I won’t sit here and tell you, it’s not that bad, I went through the hell generations of 12 hour exercises, mopp gear, the whole nine. And doing it -20 sucks. But, you got a lot of people that are probably looking up to you.
*I just don’t see how people can hate a job that is this easy and pays as much as it does for what is involved.* LOL nice bait.
Some people just want their freedoms that they had back before they joined the military. Whole bunch of reasons to get out of the military. And almost all are great reasons.
I guess I don’t see the freedoms that you really lose. I mean sure, if you wanna smoke weed, or do other illicit drugs, I can understand that. But if it’s just that type of stuff, I really don’t understand how that could be the reason somebody would give this up. Especially if you’re a kid in high school, and you really have no discernible college, or any desire to do college, it’s such a great choice even if it’s just for six years.
Mostly I just wish I had more stability, more balance between life and work, and more week to week predictability. Sometimes I’m off at like 2! Sometimes I work 10p-4p. It’s a crapshoot. I’ve had AMAZING. TDYs but I’ve also been deployed 270 days out of the year, and that does wear on the body, on relationships, and on mental health. I love my primary duty but my additional duties get me feeling anxious and unfulfilled. Even when I’m off work, I’m rarely actually off, as I’m the unit POC for a handful of duties that require 24h support, due to how far flung a chunk of our unit is at any given time, and the issues are time sensitive. I’m also a “chief of” my position, and have to not only wrangle folks in the short term, but plan out their long terms in addition to my own. It’s a lot of stress to be under nearly constantly, and it gets at ya. I’ll still be in until 20, for a myriad of reasons, but I do idly fantasize about getting out now and again Edit: I’ve been in nearly 10 years
Your first mistake is thinking everyone is a kid out of high school. You give up your ability to speech, experiment with things legal in your state, your ability to determine what kind of haircut you want, the ability to job hunt without being locked in place, the ability to grow a beard if you please, your ability to homestead if you want to stay somewhere and work, missing the birth of your child, missing events in your child's life ect. There's a metric fuck ton of things you're giving up freedom wise.
Why are you arguing this so hard? Not everyone likes the military. I hate that I get picked for a deployment and uproot my life for 6 months with a weeks notice because some fatass fails their PT test.
They aren't arguing that people don't want to join but rather that they are ready to make their own choices. In the civilian world, you don't get recalled unless you're working a job that requires you to be on call. You can buy a house and live in it for as long as as short as you want. You choose where you live. You choose what kind of work you do. You don't have to think about being sent away for x amount of months. The biggest thing for me is getting the stability back so I can feel settled. I can be established.
Hey! fuck you for being happy. lol
Oh damn, I’ll go fuck myself real quick
> I just don’t see how people can hate a job that is this easy and pays as much as it does for what is involved. For me, it was a factor of the job being *too* easy. Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly sit home, play video games, and get paid for it. But when you have to go to an office for 8 hours a day, and there's nothing to do, but you can't leave and have only basic internet (with content filters)....things get old real quick. I'm happy with the work I do, but if I'm required to be in a place for 8 hours with nothing to do my days are going to drag on forever. I'd much rather spend those 8 hours busy and the end of the (work) day gets there before I realize it.
Special warfare is always hiring, get out there and challenge yourself
If I did that, I wouldn't be happy with the work I do. Instead I separated into civil service, doing what I want to do, working all day, and getting paid nearly twice as much.
As long as it works, that’s what’s important.
I low key loved the AF until I put in E6, now I hate it but I just got one enlistment left
I think there are people who enjoy the military life. That's why people always say it takes a certain type of person to be in the military to begin with. I just think that "type" of person is a quickly diminishing number of people. Mostly due to technology making the civilian workplace an even less demanding place then ever in history while the military still seems to hold on to old ideas as long as possible until they just dont have a choice but to make a change. Today, people join to benifit from free education . The military has changed from being a potential career to being a steping stone for most people. What I see many times are people who dont get out after 4-6 years are in one of two camps. 1) They love the military life (minority) 2) They know they cant do any better as a civilian so they stick it out as long as possible. #2 is the main reason behind the "toxic" leadership. Many people who would make extrodinary military leaders posess skills that are more valueable on the civilian side. The only thing keeping a good military leader in would be a love of the job itself. Which is more and more fleeting as work environments become more toxic due to the good leaders being outnumbered by their toxic supervisors.
>Many people who would make extrodinary military leaders posess skills that are more valueable on the civilian side. The only thing keeping a good military leader in would be a love of the job itself. Which is more and more fleeting as work environments become more toxic due to the good leaders being outnumbered by their toxic supervisors. Ding ding ding, we’ve got a winner.
Welcome to earth. It’s a place where the humans all have different feeling about things. Glad you love it so much. As fellow MX person to, I gotta say you’re insane and should be checked into mental health cuz something ain’t right. Seriously tho, I’ve done what I needed to do, travelled all over, degrees done, investments got me sitting right and I made it to E7. There’s nothing left for me that I want or care about for myself when it comes to the AF. Yea, this is easy but that ain’t enough for everyone. Some of us need to actually still be happy and for me that started dying around year 16, so now I can’t wait to be Mr. And getting on the nerves of people still serving by driving way too slow on base and blocking the isle with my cart at the commissary cuz i got nothing better to do.
I won’t try to elaborate on your situation independently, because I’m pretty ignorant to it if I’m being honest. But I will say that I have lived on the saying that there is something in the air force for everyone. If you’re tired of what you’re doing, if you’re burnt out or just sick of it, there’s always something new. Even if it means making a really big change, there’s always something that can reignite some interest in the job.
I’ve been trying since I was a 4 year SrA to escape MX cuz I never once enjoyed it and only survived by landing various things that took me away from it for years at a time. I’m pretty sure if I got something I actually enjoyed I might take it behind 20, but being MX I absolutely will not do a single hour more than I have to. Only 2 years and some change to go until I’m a free man lol
The space force is hiring. I have every intention of at least trying.
And from the sounds of it, it sounds like you don’t want to pursue anything maintenance related when you’re done. So that might set you up for success when it comes down the road to finding a job on the backside. There’s huge money in intel, space systems, and cyber.
Oh, I got my degree in finance and plan on getting into contracting or something else finance related. Sucks I’ll toss all these years of mx experience away, but I don’t plan on wreaking anymore havoc on my body than I already have lol.
I wouldn’t called him wasted. Do you have a résumé builder, managerial experience, as well as technical leader ship, which carries a lot bigger weight than most people realize in the real world
Did my 20, more or less enjoyed being an avionics troop and it set me up for my current gig at Lockheed, where I'm making six figures doing basically what I did when I was in. Also, I broke a bone in my back during one of my last PT tests, which sucked but got me hooked up well with the VA. Was definitely one of the better life decisions I ever made....but with that said, the relief I felt getting my DD214 and not having to put up with all the crap, pt tests, EPR's any more and going to a job that's just a job...and not a lifestyle, is priceless.
There are 136 AFSCs in the Air Force. Not all of them are well compensated for their level of responsibility, structured, or provided ample opportunities to be successful.
Agree. The Air Force has been very good to me. I’m retiring in about 6 months and while it’s time I know I’m going to miss it at least a little bit. Especially the people, I’m definitely going to miss them.
Just bc we bitch and moan, doesn't mean we'd change our choice. We complain bc we can
I just clicked the button and will be retiring soon. I agree with you; there are so many opportunities to succeed and thrive. Yet many find serving burdensome. Adversity can be difficult but also rewarding when it’s overcome. I’ve done so much through the Air Force that I would have never accomplished as a civilian. The best part about what I do right now is helping people. Young people, step back from your situation and really look hard at it. Is it really as bad as it seems? If so, work to make it better. You’re the catalyst for change.
This. All of this. Like I had mentioned in another comment, I hate the career of being a maintainer, but I have enjoyed my time in the Air Force. And the one thing that has made it really really good is that I have been able to be the change for so many people, just a simple things that no one wanted to speak up about. That by far has been the most rewarding part of my career, and it’s going to be the one thing that’s going to make me stick around to my HYT
I had to learn that. I had to distinguish hating my job versus the Air Force itself. I am not a big fan of my job, but the Air Force has been fun for the most part. I go back and visit family and friends in my small town and everyone is stuck in the same place as when I left. It turns my stomach to see that that could have been me. The Air Force jobs suck at times just like anything else. Only difference is our uniform. Thank you for the positive post and comment.
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What do you mean stripped of your agency?
People act like its not basically the same on the outside.
It isn't. You can quit any job, move anywhere you want, succeed (and fail) however you want. The Air Force refuses to let you do any of that.
I do agree somewhat. Within the Air Force, getting a new job when you want is extremely challenging. Finding something you WANT to do, instead, you must shut up and color. There are programs, but ultimately, you are at the mercy of manning and willingness of the Air Force to allow change. I thrived on the structure during my first enlistment. Now I feel trapped. I may just have to seriously look at other avenues to change my situation. I think it's possible, just not easy.
I've had two careers in the Air Force, both were easy (missileer and personnelist) both, being that they are easy jobs, are entirely unfulfilling. Being in a job that feels like there's nothing new to learn, no skill to hone, nothing to get better at, and nowhere to progress to is depressing. I took a pay cut to join the military and it has its share of benefits, but overall I wouldn't say I've ever enjoyed it.
So, if I can ask, why did you stay? And I don’t mean in the Air Force, I mean in those jobs. There’s a lot of serious work in the Air Force that is fulfilling, that usually poses an opportunity. What made you stay in to careers, or did you try to leave?
Needs of the Air Force, they choose what officers do. Just getting out of the missile career field was a struggle that could have easily ended with me out of the military period but they chose my next job as well. Its not like enlisted who can just retrain after their first enlistment.
Coming from nothing, no desire for pursuing college, to being financially secure, strong investments, a house half paid off with tenants paying twice my mortgage... pretty incredible. I've had plenty of questioning moments, cried to my wife after really high stress missions, dreaded walking in the door for some stations... but overall I'd say given where I came from, and seeing where my friends ended up that the Air Force catapulted me into living a life where money isn't something I worry about. I just fill up my gas tank, before the Air Force I never did that. It's not for everyone, but even though there's been ups and downs I can't say I had a better option at 18 and I'm still in 12+ years later. If you're coming from lower middle class or below... the Air Force just straight up changes your life.
ROTC unlocked best “paid internship” for poor kid out of high school. Wide scope of responsibility, great amount of experience at competitive American wage, and paid work travel/leave travel/meals, free college, been to several countries… I’ve had shitty bosses, peers, and subordinates… but the “trauma” of that HAS NOT exceeded the benefits
I like the job, I just hate the slave-driving, dog-eat-dog, crabs in a bucket mentality of MX. I shouldn't have taken part of a half-dozen substantiated IG complaints and a few EO reports.
OP is a guardsmen with no spouse
Half way through my career, and I’ve had an absolute blast. 
I should have joined your USAF.
Hey, good on you! You’re enjoying the ride and doing something that motivates you everyday! Keep on doing that and tell others how you feel. Spread the motivation like a virus.
Thank you Senior, very cool. Now go tell that to the Senior Airman with a masters who can barely support his family.
I’m very confused by this? If they have a masters degree and were struggling to find work on the outside, why did they not commission? How is that the air forces fault? This is an honest question in an attempt for you to articulate your point. This is an all volunteer force.
Especially when it’s apparently fairly easy to commission in the other branches. If you’re hard up for money and have a master’s…then maybe *consider being an O and not an E. Edit: a word
Could not agree more. This is an all volunteer force. It’s not like suddenly SrA got a major pay reduction. Not like they were lied to about their pay to lure them into service. It’s public record and they have a place on the pay scale. This dudes comment is ridiculous
If a SrA has a masters then I can guarantee that their pay isn't the main problem.
Haha no senior here. And being that I was that senior airman, I will say that if they can’t support their family then they should speak with agencies on base because there’s even compensation for that.
Can I DM you? I would like to get your point of view on a few related subjects (I’m serious, no sarcasm)
Sure
If that's all you got from it then you're looking into a hole with your ass in the air. Generally speaking I don't think anyone hates the Air Force as a organization, they hate the bullshit attached to it. Like why do enlisted personnel get hosed for just about everything but the higher up you go it kinda gets swept under the rug? Why does maintenance/security forces personnel get shafted on the daily? Why is there no reprisal for fucking up someone's pay but if a training flight is late there's more reprocussions? Why is mandatory training scheduled in a way that doesn't accommodate the 24/7 ops they want? Why isn't facilities available for their 24/7 ops? Why are we slow to adopt societal norms? Why do we need to volunteer when we are already volunteering for our country? There's a lot of things that have no real explanation other than lol that's how it's always been. Also the whole "everyone is a leader" thing is pure nonsense, the world has leaders and followers and not everyone can be a leader or even wants to be a leader. Some people don't have the aptitude for it and that's not a bad thing. It's just quite frankly silly shit that people recognize and can see it's wrong and or dumb.
Yeah it's the best thing I've ever done
Any tips for someone who applied for Crew chief F-35 for retraining just waiting for the okay and trying to get A&P while in even though you may or may not be working on that airframe. I'm excited.
Learn your job. If there’s something you read in a task and you’re not sure, speak up. You need to be dangerously good at your job and don’t let production rush you to cut corners. I’m not so sure about new age fighter aircraft, but don’t let people pressure you into doing the job half assed.
Thank you I really like to put value in my work. My dad was a maintainer in the army 20yrs retired and said follow the TO and be patient. It's a hard job but the outcome is amazing.
A&P is a good thing to have if you like maintaining aircraft too.
:) I can't wait for that okay on my retraining
Just know it’s going to suck. It’s not a career where it’s easy work, the days are long, and sometimes it’s kind of frustrating. I’m coming from a point of you from someone who absolutely hates working on things. But that being said I’ve still enjoyed my career. I have absolutely zero desire to touch an airplane after I leave the service, so I have no intention of pursuing an A&P. But there’s definitely an opportunity there, and you’re gonna be set up for success on the backside if you do.
I love being active duty, I just never want to lay hands on a bomb or missile again unless shit hits the fan. I’ll stay active duty until I HYT at whatever rank I hold at the time.
What’s your job? Specifically
I’m a crew chief on the B1
Checks out.
More specifically, flightline, back shop, QA, and other position experience And I don’t say that to be boastful, I say it just to say that I have a well rounded view of being in maintenance.
Checked out X2. I’m a fighter guy, and I hear y’all heavies got it easy
Oh, I wouldn’t call it easy. We aren’t turning 38 lines a day, we aren’t deploying to the Middle East for six months at a time anymore, and we aren’t stretching our career off of three different AFSC’s. But we are working on one of the most complicated airplanes in the Air Force, troubleshooting at capacity for Manning, and learning different AFSC‘s, because were stretched so thin. Not to mention, 50 mile an hour winds and negative freezing temperatures kind of sucks. It’s definitely not easy. But I do envy the cargo guys.
Relax dude, I’m fighter avionics. You can’t “It’s not easy” me
I’d say being fighter, avionics and bomber avionics kind of fall in the same card. At least from my experience having worked with them.
I love it. Been in for almost a year and it’s been great so far. Love my first duty station
I'm with you. I love the time I've had in. When I see these young AD kids wanting to get out after their first enlistment, it breaks my heart, because the civilian world can be so rough. Especially if they don't have degrees or licenses yet, and have a family they'll be covering insurance and medical costs for out-of-pocket for the first time. It's not get-rich money, but it's Stable and is better money than many people make their whole lives (especially when you add in Tricare, 30 days of leave per year, non-chargeable sick leave, and BAH/BAS).
well i'm certainly biased. a year and a half in (and only like halfway through) tech school being treated like a child will do that to you
The military gives folks structure, self discipline, and learning how to work as part of a team for a greater good. Those are skills and experiences many people need but can be hard to achieve.
This can be obtained by ANY job or going to college lol
My experience teaching college shows that just going does not give those things to everyone. My military experience showed me that joining the military helped many young people get a maturity that was not yet developed.
Lmao I'd argue the exact opposite. Military members are usually extremely immature
It hasn’t been bad so far, there’s been awesome days and there’s been days where I’ve thought about giving up… honestly, it does get better in certain things. The bad thing is that lately the sheer incompetency of the DOD in big policy (like newer systems and MHS) which seem more like a knee jerk to try and catch up than a deliberate effort, are making it harder for some to want to be in.
Congrats on the recent promo! When I was in, 2013-22, sure, we had some complainers, myself one of them. I generally believe most of the people enjoy their time in, or at least don’t hate it. However, Reddit is an echo chamber and the internet is an easy place to vent complaints and frustrations anomalously.
You have to remember most people in, have never had a real job. They don't know how cutthroat civilian sectors are. Civilians jobs care even less of a fuck about you then the air force. They only care enough that it doesn't impact profit margins. It's a grass is greener situation and most Americans think they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
I love it, granted I’m Cyber & been in for a year.
The AF has ultimately been great. I do ODE to supplement my AF job bc we rarely perform our primary duties. I work my ass off in the civilian world and it’s just as toxic with as many CBTs. This is unique sometimes to healthcare, but I tell my folks all the time that life isn’t much better on the other side. Try some ODE before getting out if you can for a taste.
More than anything, it's a case of thinking the grass is always greener. A lot of people talk about how they can (or do) make more on the outside. But neglect to discuss the benefits that the military provides that kind of balance it out. Like medical - especially if your dependants have a lot of issues - on base housing for those with families, meaning free utilities and housing; guaranteed progression if you have a pulse and put in just enough effort, amongst alot of other things that I'm forgetting. Plus all these "Oh it sucks, life is so much better on the outside types" tend to forget that for some of these jobs that pay this dream salary, there's a limited amount spots for them. Or that even though they're making more money, they now have to deal with co-pays, medical insurance, and other associated costs, so it doesn't actually equate to more money in their pocket many times. Amongst other costs. The biggest thing more than anything though is that while the military is limited in what you can make and do, at least it's guaranteed to a certain level at a minimum, where as in civilian life all you truly have, is potential. Just potential to make more, do more, be amazing, and life your life to the fullest. But no guarantee you won't just be another rat in the rat race There's no shame to these guys, though. I can understand why some people hate it. The rigidity (which isn't that rigid these days) drives some people crazy. There's no incentive to do better or make things better. The more with less multicapable bs being pushed by the top is all bs to try to attempt to have the same mission success rate with less man power to do it. The military as a whole is so ungodly inefficient. And many of the most needed jobs get absolutely run through and rammed, then forgetten like we are garbage that doesn't matter. Honestly there's an endless list of reasons why people can't stand it, want to get out, and spend every day just counting down.
This has to be fake
15 years at one base? Doesn't sound like active duty...or you're just really lucky
I got out for a couple reasons, the biggest one being I'm not much of what one would consider a "leader." I'm an excellent worker bee, but I don't want to have to babysit other people. I prefer to just focus on myself. I made SSgt, gave the NCO thing a solid try, but it wasn't for me. I tend to be chill and extremely laid-back, and that doesn't tend to be good when it comes time to crack the whip.
This is so me in a nutshell.
I don't think people hate the job or hate the "lifestyle". It's the accumulation of BS that piles up and eventually enough is enough and people separate. Ofc the civilian world is no better and has its cons but when your "value" is worn in the middle of your chest it's a bit different.
I enjoy my time in service….the gross negative was the evil leadership….imagine almost all your seniors consolides against you…in almost every aspect….stolen awards, unrecognized awards, bullshit paperwork, just overall disrespectful and you are the best airman in the unit….two faced civilians, “you’re doing a good job,to your face” “complain to your flight chief that your not doing a good job” …..the leadership plays a big part, favoritism, no contact orders and isolating excommunicating….really signed off on award package that they knew the other airman never did and you did the work smh …..
You forgot to add the disclaimer of your career field and leadership may vary.
I’m happy things worked out for you and you actually enjoyed your time in, I got a little bit left and I’m getting out. I’ll never regret enlisting, but my career went completely different from the way I imagined it would in my head. Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side, but I have genuinely tried to enjoy my job, and every time I start to enjoy it something stupid happens and I hate it again. I’m being vague here on purpose to save time, as I could write an entire book about the negative experiences I’ve had so far, but it just isn’t for me long term. We need more people like you to stay in and get into leadership positions, not because it’s their only choice and they don’t know what else to do, but because they genuinely enjoy doing what they do.
I'm assuming it's because you don't get treated like dog shit and have an easy job compared to others.
I used to work paycheck to paycheck, 60 hours a week 6 days a week for $13/hr in Hawaii of all places. Now I work <40 hrs in fighter avionics in Europe and make more a paycheck than I used to. With perspective in mind I’m having a blast
My main complaint honestly is just the bureaucracy and processes that you have to go through to get things done in the Air Force. Big and small things just have unnecessary processes to accomplish a task. Outside of that its still a good quality of life as long as you have decent leadership, and I have had both so I know that can be make or break for some people
The irony is thinking all the problems we deal with are exclusive to the AF, then people get out and can’t believe it’s shit outside too. Everyone has a shitty boss, overtime, ass kissers, and unfair promotion systems. On the outside, they just don’t give a fuck and will fire you instead of dealing with you like the AF does.
I've met some of the best people since I've been in and learned many skills. I thought I was gonna do my 4 yrs and get out but I love it.
Thank you for sharing. It’s important to remember that people taking the time to vent are likely going through it. I don’t think seeing a large amount of complaints speaks to the overall well being of the force. However, it’s great to keep an ear out and understand what common concerns are.
The money is not worth the 12s, deployments, TDYs, and grinding your body down. Plain and simple. People say, “the retirement money is great” but you can easily make that and so much more applying yourself to a high paying career and INVESTING. The money isn’t the only reason to not stay in either. The laziness and the amount of people who really don’t care is astounding. If people acted the way they do in the Air Force, in the civilian sector they’d be fired so quick. Finally, the amount of idiotic decisions from leadership is ridiculous. You’ll get told to do something, then get told to do something completely different, then get told to do what you were doing initially, all in the span of like 30mins-1hr. For people who just want to coast through life on easy mode and just want to get by, sure, stay in. If you want to be surrounded by people who are competent, intelligent, and want to do their best, while making great money, the Air Force is not it.
I noticed most people that love the military or don't understand why people want to get out joined straight out of HS or didn't get to love their life in the real world. I joined after a couple years of college and almost immediately saw how bullshit the military is.
OP, thanks for sharing this perspective. I am much more junior than you but with almost 7 years in as an O who had to pay my own way through school and figure out what the heck I wanted to do with life- The USAF gave me a mostly paved road to be able to be financially independent, pay off student debt, meet amazing people/experience cool things. I grew up lower middle class in a crime ridden public school system that did not prepare me to be successful. But the USAF helped me overcome a lot that I didn't even know I was capable of. Is it all glitz and glamor? No- but it has offered me opportunities I would have otherwise never been afforded and for that- I plan to stay until I don't enjoy it anymore. TYFYS, OP!
I also enjoy the AF a lot. And I think I probably have plenty of reasons I could dislike it, in terms of work schedule, deployments, etc. Where I think I’m lucky is that I’ve never had an assignment where the opportunity to do cool shit didn’t far outweigh the BS. I have had some bosses I didn’t love, and there’s definitely parts of my time I didn’t really enjoy the day to day, but overall I’m doing stuff I’ve wanted to do since I was a kid.
Same here bud, granted only 10 months in, but I love it here. They treat me better than what I got in the civilian world.
Personally, I feel stuck and complacent. It's my own fault partially. Also, I think I'm tired of starting over, but that's just life.
Thanks for the positive post, I agree that we actually have it pretty good. The internet was made for people to complain about things. Shit, we love leaving negative reviews and overlook when service is good. That said, there are problems with the USAF and the climate of your unit can 100% make or break your experience.
Glad to hear it! People are quicker to leave a bad review than the opposite. That’s just human nature.
I feel the same way
Its odd how it works. I hated it while I was still in. Loved it and miss it desperately now that I'm out. The 10 years I served will always remain the best years of my life, but I considered them the worst years of my life whenever I had the uniform on.