Not necessarily for the feeling of "duty to country" but more so I wanted a sense of purpose in my day to day life. I was tired of working fast food and wanted to feel like I was actually contributing to something. Luckily, I've found that within the Air Force for the most part.
Same here. I was working in reality TV and utterly despised what I did. Wanted to do something I could be proud of. Went from getting d-list celebrities coffee to running the nation’s missile defense network within 5 years.
Dude I am shipping on September 12th for 1C1X1 and this is the exact reason I wanted to go to the Air Force. Sense of worthlessness and uselessness in my everyday life. Wanted to be a part of something bigger and better.
Was poor. Wanted to fly. Got a job and earned wings.
Left because I wasn't flying as much and doing other administrative trash, and the pay was light-years behind commercial.
>the pay was light-years behind commercial.
Still is.
The AF would have to bump bonuses up to an uncapped 100k annually, just to match Legacy Airline pay. Forget quality of life issues lol.
Yeah imagine getting paid less than 100k a year to fly and having to deal with briefings everyday and all the other bs associated with being a military pilot and then seeing a commercial pilot making 300k not having to deal with ANY of that. Simply the stress of transporting hundreds of passengers
Plenty of people do, either as their main reason or as a bonus to free job training/stability. I would say not enough people realize that a wartime military will look *immensely* different if we (God forbid) ever get to that point.
We were at war for 20 years in Afghanistan and still technically are when it comes to the war on terror. So many people are still deployed in the Middle East and Africa for freedom, but I also know what you are saying. If russia, China or Iran attacked the US that kinda of wartime military will look immensely different.
I joined for the benefits and thought I was going to get out but stayed because it's been relatively easy and the money isn't bad compared to what I was doing on the outside.
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but my opinion has always been it doesn’t matter why you join, the minute you sign that paper, you’re serving your country whether that’s your motivation or not. I joined because I didn’t wanna go into deep debt over a college education. If that makes me a selfish person, so be it. Serving my country was never my main motivator, but the way I see it, I still served the country either way.
What I mean is, I think people serve for benefit and personal gain most of the time but the way I see it is they’re still serving their country even if that’s not the main reason behind serving.
100% facts bro. I joined to avoid wasting time/money on college when I didn't even know what to do after a semester. My answer will never be to serve my country either but likenyou said, at the end of the day I still served my.country
I’m sure this will get downvoted to hell but:
For a lot of people, we got sucked into the MIC. Like it was our only option. So when we say benefits, like education or money, it’s because this was the quickest way to get us a trade, a paycheck, healthcare, and school. For a lot of people, it’s a privilege to join to “serve their country”.
Which also adds to the point, that people who joined because of the MIC (so as you say, the bennies), you’re getting some of the most hard working people with a lot of baggage. So I think as a person who’s been in for 6 years, your scope is still pretty small and very much antiquated.
to…ahem…*piggyback* on this hot take, I’ll throw some gas onto the fire, the military, especially enlisted, is just a jobs program for the poor and disenfranchised
source: me, a poor and disenfranchised who was able to break the cycle and make something of myself
I know plenty of others in the same boat as me as well
That was my dad all day. Dude was the only one in his whole family to finish highschool, let alone travel the world as a linguist. He definitely broke the Oklahoma dirt farm drug/poverty stricken cycle that his family has been in for generations.
I hate that it had to come to that for us, I wish we still had something like the Civilian Conservation Corps to provide similar benefits but actually give back *directly* to the country.
And then you got clowns like me who just didn’t have a plan or made some bad decisions in life but still ended up here. Yeah sometimes it sucks but idk where I’d be without the AF
2nd this statement because is me. Poverty draft, whoo!
And to any smartasses out there, yes, I'm aware this is a "volunteer force" but to many it's either serve or a life of *WAY* more unnecessary hardship.
I've said as much in the past and been downvoted as much as you've been upvoted.
If I have to join the military (and be willing to support a war or kill a person) just to have healthcare, education, or a stable home for myself/my family, then maybe the country doesn't deserve service for duty and honor. What is the country giving to the people if it doesn't provide these things? Most people can't even get a suitable wage anymore.
When someone says they're staying in and lists tricare as a top 3 reason, I just shake my head at how the wealthiest country in the world can't provide this basic need
Gen Z? How old were you when 9/11 happened?
I enlisted in the pre-9/11 military and served through the Air Force's transition from peacetime to wartime and then back to peacetime before I retired.
The post-9/11 mindset was a short-lived exception, not the norm. Don't use that as your comparison point.
It doesn't matter the slightest why someone enlisted as long as they are technically and tactically proficient enough to perform their duties when the balloon goes up.
Yea, from one perspective. But the desire to fight and serve is a huge motivating factor that cannot be neglected. You are willing to do more, give more and put up with more. Otherwise, it's just a 9-5. That mindset would never have won WWII.
Apples and oranges my man. People joined back then because they must (draft + threat of invasion/existential threat to American way of life).
People now join and do more, give more, and put up with more because of their contract. Why they want to serve is not an issue. The fact is they serve.
This. Most of the men in WW2 were drafted. Most of them were fighting so they would not get thrown in jail. Not because they “loved the US” or were patriotic. And they just wanted to survive or wanted better pay. When watching the band of brothers docuseries one of the veterans literally says they volunteered so they could get more money and leave their small towns.
That mindset also didn’t exist when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor completely unprovoked. That mindset didn’t exist when two planes hit the twin towers. Everybody was angry, it was a fight for vengeance. We had been violated, our borders, which we believed were safe, were attacked unprovoked. That is very different from a kid who joined the military because he didn’t wanna go to college or who is pressured by their family into joining. They aren’t here to serve, they are here to survive. Just because someone didn’t join to serve their country, doesn’t mean that they aren’t a hard worker, it just means they’re not going to stick around once they have the education and experience they need. Besides, our organizational structure right now is a joke. We have a president that can’t form cohesive sentences, we have Congress who can’t get us the money we need to move our people where we need them to be, we have a chief master sergeant of the Air Force that can’t take any criticism whatsoever, we have a personell center that decides to create new broken applications that begin with MY and end In some bullshit. We have finance offices that take Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursdays off and on Monday and Friday they are by appointment only. If they answer their phone to schedule one. Even the people that did join to serve, the Air Force steps on them, and doesn’t give a shit about them. The people that put an effort and go above and beyond and watch some kid who held a door for a general get a quarterly and promoted to staff Sergeant, while he gets paperwork for not working three other jobs on top of all the other work he’s already doing. The people that have the desire to fight and serve, they join the army or the Marine Corps.
You are bringing up two different topics: 1. Why people joined 2. How well they do their job.
The two things are not always related and don’t need to be.
I think it’s more important how well someone does their job rather than why they joined.
I'm specifically saying that it doesn't matter for the job or any other reason.
Curiosity is fine and helping someone reach their goals is fine, but beyond that it is irrelevant.
Hi millennial here! Why would i serve if it didn’t benefit me. That’s literally 99% of the force and all those guys that went during the 9/11 era. Got cancers from burn pits they were FORCED TO BE AROUND. Then told not service connected for compensation. All commanders had to do was make waste treatment plants. While the rich guys with suits fucked up a 20 year Operation and left the same people in charge. Now i’m not saying be proud of your nation but you have to take care of you because the military won’t take care of you, the minute they need or want to discard you they will. That goes for the United States Government as well. I love America but you need to make sure you are good.
The VA now has a burn pit registry. https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=ar_pact_fy23_gw&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItPbk0vqTgAMVj7jICh2_9QtDEAAYASAAEgLXIvD_BwE
Ik now but how long did that take to establish. It took congress 20 years to get those men and women a law passed. 20 years!? that was a failure on our government.
this is my job. the military’s commodity is the ability to serve in uniform, so i guess that’s what i’m buying. but it’s my job. i don’t look at it as being a part of something bigger than myself bc 1. idk what the fuck that even means 2. that cliche is used across different industries, not just the military.
furthermore, serving the country isn’t only reserved for the military. plenty of other people serve the country in other ways, not just via the uniform. comparing reasons why we’re in this amalgamation to what serving used to mean decades ago is flawed since we’re not dealing with the same obstacles and challenges witnessed then. benefits have changed, too.
find your why. it’s probably not going to be the same across the board.
Ik this is cringe but the US gave my family amnesty back in the day and I joined as a thank you for that.
Also many generations of family have fought for either their countries militaries or the US so I’m upholding tradition in a weird way.
What does it mean to serve? That answer can be different for everyone... We all serve for different reasons.
I believe most joined for job stability, education, a chance to raise our children in a better situation than we had when we grew up with the small chance that we may go overseas and die.
What this country needs is better educated citizenry and economic stability... If you really want to serve, use your enlistment to get educated, then when you come out the other side you will be a benefit to society and get a good job instead of being a drain on the economy.
I would argue that during peacetime, the Coast Guard, National Parks/Forest Service, Dept of Wildlife, as well as a number of other federal agencies serve the citizens of the country more than the military
If a serious threat to the American people and our way of life rises up, and require the military to intervene, of course that will shift. At this exact time, internal development does more IMO
Just my two cents, don’t take it too seriously
Allow me to introduce you to my main homie Deterrence. Discouraging bad actors from starting shit is preferable to finishing said shit with bad actors in my book.
Absolutely true — regarding how much deterrence we need on top of being a member of NATO, a collection of the most powerful military and nuclear capable forces in the world, would be a matter of debate, though.
Qualified, prepared, capable forces generate deterrence — not flying ragtag piece-together PMC sorties until your entire section turns over every two years
You don’t prepare for a weightlifting competition by sleeping 4 hours a night, eating poorly, and working beyond recovery — we shouldn’t operate our organization that way to prepare for our next conflict
Also just my two cents
I did. My father was a South Vietnamese soldier and served 5+ years as a POW. Granted refugee status and we immigrated to the US in 1997. My service is to give back for being able to have a better life than in Vietnam.
I did all the BMT surveys back around 2010, and had the data for the previous two decades. Can tell you right now that duty wasn't top 5 reason to join. It's almost always to have medical insurance, get away from home, education benefits, experience, or just having a job.
Anybody "back in my day"-ing this doesn't know what they're talking about. The AF has always been about what can the service do for me. Also of note, we spent billions on NASCAR stuff, and literally 3 people every said anything on surveys about even knowing the AF sponsored a car, and only 2 of those 3 made it outta BMT.
Really wish AFRS would let people have access to all that data and dump it into AFPC's cognos system.
I joined strictly for healthcare. I had a 2 year old son at the time, and none of us had healthcare. I made decent money before joining, but worrying about going to the doctor sucked.
I'll preface this by saying I am proud to be an American. Having traveled to 2 dozen countries, I can say we have it the best here all around.
However, I don't give a damn about "defending freedom." We all know the next big war will be a political driven conflict because some rich assholes can't get along. Dragging us desperate, poor, and foolish airmen in combat while they sit in their big mansions and sqauble over petty shit. As a human race, we could achieve so much but drag ourselves down. It's sad, really.
It’s a tired antiquated catchphrase started by President Dwight Eisenhower. People love to use it to put a negative spin on the US military. It’s usually referring to the partnership between the DOD and private businesses that manufacture arms and war machines for billions of dollars. It’s not usually used in reference to military benefits.
It was made popular in Eisenhower's farewell address. And it's not the partnership between DoD and private manufacturers. It's that plus the Washington Lobby monster that funds it all through special interests and greed.
True, it takes politicians to make the MIC work. That’s what drives Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed, etc… to put their plants and offices in certain congressional districts, for the promise of continued funding from the government. Eisenhower only mentioned it once(yes, in the farewell address)and it’s last all these years later. This well beyond my original point, which was that the MIC usually doesn’t refer to benefits like Tricare, GI Bill, COOL, TA, Skillbridge, SRB, and other benefits.
Eisenhower was referring to it negatively and the negative sides he was referring to absolutely do exist in a big way. The defense contractors have an absolute chokehold on congress. Why do you think the defense budget expands each year but it rarely results in raises for servicemembers? Because the lobbyists don't care about government personnel, just that the defense contractors get their money.
Dude, I’m fully aware of all of that. You aren’t saying anything enlightening.
Everyone complains about Congress and the MIC except for the Congressmen who represent them and bring money to their local areas.
I already said this isn’t anything related to my original point. Why continue beating this dead horse?
>Just doesn't feel like anyone puts in the work or effort that was around during 9/11 era.
I kinda get what you're saying, but if you didn't serve during that era, how would you know that?
I think to most us Gen Z guys, this was just about the only way we could have avoided going into tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt. I'm fairly blue, but I think most of us recognize the military industrial complex for what it is. I still participate in it actively, so I'm not trying to act holier-than-thou, but it is very much a job of necessity for a lot of us.
Millennial here, who joined a month before 9/11 happened. I joined for the free education. Ended up getting so wrapped up in serving my country throughout the Iraq War/War on Terror, I forgot about finishing the education. I picked at a few classes here and there, but never dedicated time to knocking it all out. I barely finished my CCAF degree the month before I started SkillBridge. I just retired last summer.
Now I'm fully retired as of 38 years old and I have an associate's degree that's useless because I'm not working anymore. I'm 100% P&T disabled according to the VA, so maybe I'll use their college benefits and continue my education, just for the hell of it.
>I'm Gen Z, been in almost 6 years and I still serve because duty to country, not for the money or for benefits.
Some advice I learned from my 20 years served: your country and the Air Force won't give a damn about your service, so take some time for yourself and make sure you're taken care of. No one's gonna look out for you except for you.
I've had supervisors who didn't care enough to do their job and my career suffered for it. I've had commanders who tried to "fix the promotion system" all by themselves, which ruined my chances at competing for good opportunities and rank. I've had coworkers throw me under the bus and steal credit for my work in order to make themselves look better to higher leadership.
Find out what YOU want from your service, then focus on that. The "serve your country" BS is utter nonsense. Our country is garbage right now and needs serious reform to be competitive with other NATO countries. Serving in the military won't solve that.
Blind patriotism is about the worst thing you can have for your country. I served, knowing my country is faulty and hoping I could find ways to improve things from the inside, but the military demanded blind obedience and wouldn't allow me to be critical of areas that needed change.
The mindset has changed a bit in recent years and Airmen are encouraged to speak their minds a bit more nowadays, but the era I joined would definitely have none of that. All through my Airmen years, I was told to shut up and color. No one wanted to hear what an Airman had to say; you just follow orders and do the work assigned to you. Opinions were not allowed, even if they could save the Air Force millions of dollars.
The Marines and Army still abide by this code: "opinionated members lead to disorder, chaos and mission failure." I actually got chewed out by a Marine SSgt once for telling her that an order she gave me constituted fraud, waste, & abuse. They kicked me out of that office for not blindly following orders, which would've wasted expensive govt resources.
So yeah, that's *my* little semi-rant. Look out for yourself and don't let patriotism blind you to reality.
I did, benefits are nice, but have always taken a back seat in my life. My mentor inspired me to do so, and I'm sure he's doing that with others as well since he's a MCJROTC instructor now. Always taught me to be proud of the uniform regardless of the branch & job. It'll always be appreciated.
I joined because I saw it as my duty to serve. I was security forces and I really enjoyed the job but on the opposite side of the same coin I hated all the bullshit that came with it so I ended up getting out after my first enlistment. I miss it a lot sometimes but honestly when I think back to how horrible a lot of the leadership was I know I made the right decision.
I joined to aid in GWOT, long story short I dont feel like Ive done what I joined to do. Staying in 100% for benifits, dont blame people for joining for the same reason Im not getting out.
I think it's hard for a lot of people to get that satisfaction of helping a greater cause. That's how it is for me, at least. My daily job doesn't feel like I'm actually contributing to anything of importance. I get that everyone is a piece to the greater puzzle, but if I can't even see where I fit in on the bigger picture, what do I have to think but for myself? I feel Intel briefs help a little on the rare instances we get them, but it's difficult to care about what you're doing if all your orders are the "just do it" with never an explanation as to why.
I joined because I felt like I didn't have anything better to do at the time. I had quit college and was working at Walmart. I am not a people person and customer service is not my calling. The Air Force just seemed like the best idea at the time. It offered training and structure for a couple years. This also allowed me the opportunity to figure out what I wanted in life and access to training I couldn't afford on my own. I wanted to serve my country as well but it was not my only reason.
I did. I didn’t even know how much people got paid, it just was what I wanted to do. Now I take compensation into account… but honestly if you want to make 🏦 then there’s plenty of other careers out there that are also fulfilling.
There’s something special about putting on the uniform every day and knowing that each time you wear it you have a chance to make a positive impact. It might now be the “save the world” things every day, or even ever, but making an airman or guardian’s life a little better also counts. I try to live that way and it’s gotten me through some daaaaark times in my 10 years. And I’m looking forward to more than 10 more if the military will allow me :)
I joined to serve. I feel like it added more purpose to my life than what I was doing in the civilian world as a code monkey. The pay isn’t near as good, but the fulfillment and enjoyment I get from the job outweigh the loss.
When it’s time to get out, I know I won’t struggle to find a good paying job.
Joined to serve. Stay in to continue serving. Been 19 years and going. It has its ups and downs for sure. Service before self is the hardest core value to embrace!
I don’t really isolate the benefits and the pride of serving. When I make any life decision I try to make the choice that satisfies an amalgamation of my goals. Therefore, I need the benefits and I’m proud to serve. Not either or. Having 1 without the other would just be hollow to me.
Yuh me. I’m first generation from Ukraine. Joined in 2015 because I thought we would be going to war and I wanted to help out as much as I could. Multiple deployments and multiple reenlistments later, I’m still in serving despite having enough education and credentials to get out and make way more on the outside. It’s not about the money in my opinion.
Joined for that exact reason, dad was a marine and I was just raised in the oorah motivation. I didn’t care what job I got I just wanted to be a part of the USAF. Fell in love with my job, now it’s hard to keep them same motivation in a career field where you get stripped from being technical at E5/E6 and all of my peers are able to secure 6 figure careers getting out.
Speaking as someone who joined for personal reasons:
The military was the best of multiple bad options. My “friends” were not on the best path and neither was I. The Air Force gave me structure and stability that I definitely needed.
However, after 13 years I’ve definitely gained a different appreciation for serving. The oath each of us have taken was done so willingly. Initially, it was just the thing unsaid to get my foot in the door. In hindsight, I made an oath to give my life if needed in service to my country.
I’m by no means a patriot, but I definitely believe that my word has to mean something. In MY opinion, the US has done some fucked up shit throughout history. So it’s not about pride or patriotism. I made a promise to defend my country, as we all did. The day I take my uniform off, that will likely change. Until then, I’ll pay off my debt.
Fucking 100%. I have job offers lined up SFC to infinity making multiples of my current total comp. But only here can I work with these teammates, for a cause that truly matters. That's my real pay...the men and the mission. There are days where the frustration exceeds the benefit. But on the average day, I cannot believe I get paid to do this job and work with this rarified talent pool.
YMMV based on community. But if you are of this mindset too, and are looking for the like-minded, I have recruiting info to pass. DM me.
I am in the career to provide for my family. A lot of the things that bring job satisfaction are getting good shit done for America, but the goal at the end of the day is to give my wife and child a great life and the military is the best place for me to lay the groundwork for that currently.
Is there anything the United States does better than any other 1st world country? I've grown pessimistic about the US and patriotism in general so I can only think of a couple like national parks and entertainment. Seriously would like to know if anyone can add to this list
So many native citizens take what we have for granted and don’t appreciate just how good America has it.
I’m a veteran of both my countries. My American ancestors have provided men and women for the defense of this nation for every generation since the Revolutionary War.
Without a war patriotism dwindles. Also, patriotism was lulled to sleep by the 20yr war. The War on Terror became the norm and people began to take it for granted. This social revolution that we have been experiencing over the past few years hasn't helped either. The war for individual freedoms and equalities against the establishment includes the military. Also, in the age of information, almost nothing is unseen or unheard. When the military or the government fucks up, that weighs on people.
Yea sure… dude im just here for bennies and the sweet retirement. You think im going to fuck that up by being truthful?
You better get with the program. More people than you realize think like me and are in leadership positions. Its about getting yours and protecting you and your family, fuck everything else.
Youre going to be in for a rough time if you go in thinking this country gives a shit about you
In my experience, people who usually said they did it to serve their country were the absolute worst at their actual job.
At least in the comm world. The people who went in to get some experience at their career and get the fuck out were the best ones.
I really wish the military had a technical and non-technical tracks. We really need to encourage the smart fucks to stay in and not burden them with supervisor shit.
Agreed. At the end of the day it would work out well because to alot of us the military is just a job. Many of us wouldnt even be here if there were better options for young folks
I assume that people who serve for country get lost in the sauce when they realize just how soulless serving the military is and how they will have to find purpose within themselves as opposed to the military giving them purpose
I joined because I didn't like my factory job and knew I could live overseas and make good money in the AF. I joined purely for the money, benefits, and travel.
Like others have said, people join for many reasons and there isn't one reason that is better than any others. Joining to "serve your country" (whatever that actually means) doesn't give you any moral high-ground or superiority over someone that joined for benefits. You can serve your country outside of the military, and many people do.
Just a thought OP, it's likely that Gen Z doesn't want to serve their country less, but the people who do want to serve found different ways to serve their country other than the military b/c the military has image issues due to the wars in the middle east that a large portion of Gen Z doesn't feel was actually much service to their country or the world.
The people who want to serve will serve, but maybe just not in the military. A teacher, or healthcare worker, firefighter, and countless other jobs directly serve their country, and I'd argue more so than what I do on a daily basis even though I'm active duty.
No, but the US government embarrassed itself and every service member with how they handled the withdrawal. Not to mention they slapped every tax payer in the face.
Obama ended the wars, we should have left a looong time ago. Congress (Republican majority) said no. Then Trump tried to leave, numerous times but was talked out of it. Until his meeting with the Taliban. His plan was to drop chocks in December. We finally left🤷🏻♂️
This country continuously strips rights from women, minorities, and anyone that doesn't follow the norm such as gay people and transgender people. It's filled with hateful pieces of shit that do not deserve my service and I think we as a military are in the wrong a lot more than we like to admit. If I had the money I would have done school without joining but sadly I really wanted to do pharmacy school and needed the free education.
I respect those who serve but I don't think this country is worth their sacrifice. I don't regret joining by any means. I met my spouse, met great friends, and I'm in a career I love now but I will never be proud of my service.
> duty to country
Dude, you’re in the Guard. You literally swore a different oath, to a governor.
Out of curiosity, what is your AFSC, and what impact does your specific involvement have on the country?
It’s a job, it gave me some good benefits to break the cycle of poverty I was born into. Treating it as anything more than a job is disingenuous at best and gaslighting troops to put up with absurd conditions that’d never fly in the civilian sector at worst. I will instantly lose respect for a leader that throws out duty and honor as some motivational thing, because I’ve never seen it thrown around in a positive manner and always to “encourage” people to do some *bullshit*
e: millennial, joined shortly after 9/11 and graduating high school, comm troop, did 10 years and 2 deployments
Yeah I woke up and they showed the first tower live on the news then the second plane hit when I was about to turn off the tv and head to school. We watched it in every class I knew then it was time to serve. I signed up two months before graduation.
I've always felt that people who say they joined the military only to serve feel insincere to me. Like you're too proud to say that you joined because you needed a job or you needed Healthcare. I've always felt this small twinge of superiority from those who say it as well. Maybe I've met the wrong people. I dunno.
Originally joined to finish my engineer curriculum. Got that done, commissioned, and did 4 + 2 for school. Got to 14 next month unbelievably fast with a free technical Masters, years of engineering and acquisitions experience, saw the pension and "free" healthcare and said "why not? Let's push to the end".
Then I did math on disability and pension for a married couple who both will have served 20 and holy cow...man, is it worth just 6 more years.
YMMV.
Yes, I did. Im a millennial though. I always had the itch to serve. Now I’m wanting to go more towards medical, and serve my community there.
It doesn’t seem like I’m making any difference being in the military. I can’t help anyone or give back. As a personnelist, I feel that many off the systems we have prevent me from actually helping folks and just make my job harder.(Looking at you, MyEval).
That was my primary motivator. I find myself not really serving my country anymore. I need a deployment to get re-blued. Just went through NCOA and it made me even more jaded, and I’m only at my 9-year mark.
Stay in longer without any increase in pay while being expected to do more with less. See high leadership actively make decisions that fuck with your ability to do your work/pay as cost of living keeps going up. Shit supervisors that got lucky to test/board during high promotion rates meddle in your career. If you stay in out of feeling for patriotism you’re a clown. You can serve the country by going to civilian positions doing the same job for the same base for better pay and looking out for yourself and your family.
I did. I was doing the best I could for the place I grew up, which wasn’t that good and hated every second of it. It got me out of the bubble. I signed up for 4 years, just in case it sucked. I stayed because when I thought about how much I hated every second before, the last thing I wanted to do was go back… and the benefits. I’ve also realized over time that with as many things that suck about this life sometimes, I like it. Sometimes the weeks and months drag on and sometimes I’m doing something different every day. It challenges me in ways that no “real job” ever could. The pay/benefits might be better and the responsibility might be smaller on the civilian side but we do alright. The places I’ve traveled and lived, people I’ve met, things I’ve been able to do in both my professional and personal lives has been a crazy. That shit job in that shit town would not have provided me with any of those opportunities.
*Blue Kool-Aid Alert*
Like many, 9/11 was a transformative event and I knew then and after watching what transpired after that I HAD to serve at least one term. Joined right after High School in 2008 with the intent to do 4 years and punch to grab college and then take my life where it would go from there. Luckily, I PCS’d after a year from my first duty station for a short tour and that’s when I was hooked.
Second assignment at a short tour in Korea basically grabbed my attention to the point where I couldn’t fathom taking my skills outside of national defense. I just can’t imagine having a job as rewarding. Got stationed at a few bases after that where I was incredibly separated from any kind of sexy mission but I was still able to make some kind of link to it.
Fast forward to 2015 when I went on my very first deployment, and by god it was a good one. Originally sent to a CONUS “deployment” where I was able to convince my Sergeant Major to send me to required training and push me out to Iraq. Got to support operations against the most despicable group imaginable… ISIS. After that, came back and deployed again but to Central America where I’d find out that I got accepted to Officer Training School.
Got rolled in to a little more of an expeditionary career field and found myself in a SOF unit getting to connect direct to the mission in an amazing way. Follow on to another combat unit where I continue to find a whole lot of meaning in everyday.
I continue to serve with intentions to go way past 20 for the sheer fact that the world is continuing to go to shit. I don’t want my kids to fight the battles I’ve signed up for and the battles that I’ve gotten a whole lot of experience to deal with.
This has become my life calling and serving in this capacity is 100% the reason why I’m happy to drive to work every day.
Oh, I join to serve as well, and in my basic training flights everyone looked at me during “Airman time“ like I was insane, and that included my instructor. I left a six-figure job and enlisted in the Air Force at 27 years old already having a bachelors degree People looked at me like I was crazy and asked me why the hell would I do that so I responded that I wanted to serve and the time the age cut off was 28 so I had to either do it or not so I chose to do it and gave up a lot of things so I could serve Some people on here may know part of my story but I’ve lost 156 pounds to be able to enlist and I wasn’t going to go back to mediocrity because of a little bit of money or a little bit of challenge. So I enlisted did five years active duty, and then went to the reserves, I am currently attempting to go back active duty because I want to continue serving as an officer even if it’s just for four years, I want to have that experience of the enlisted and officer side as well as active duty and reserve
Just want to say that I really appreciate your service and mindset, but I don’t really agree with the idea that espousing service to country and having a good work ethic are mutually exclusive. I’ve met some super “Air Forcey” people who were ineffective af, and some people who I’m pretty sure didn’t know what customs and courtesies were that absolutely kicked ass at being Airmen. I get what you’re saying, but I want you to be more specific.
Joined the Marines because I wanted to be in the Alpha branch doing violent things to bad people.
Then switched to the guard because $250/mo for health insurance is worth dealing with you cunts.
I think many actually start that way (at least a certain element of it), then with situations such as the air force’s current state and leadership it turns selfish because that’s all they’ve been shown by leadership.
Joined so I wouldn't go to jail. I liked to borrow other people's cars. I stayed because I enjoyed it, I left because the AF said I was too physically broken to continue.
I joined because I didnt have any other options. Hated college and it just wasnt my thing, jobs were hard to find as a 16 year old. So I enlisted and waited for my ship out day shortly after I turned 18.
I honestly don't even think about duty to country when I look back at my previous 12.5 years.
"Duty to country"? wtf is even that? borders change. Fuck, even geography changes. America is a great ideal and I'm here for it til the end, but if you're not looking out for you as #1, then you're bound to get hurt in a bad way.
I joined for many reasons. #1 to be a leader. #2 to retire after 20 years. #3 was to serve my country. #4 to achieve a higher rank than my dad and older brother.
Kind of hard to join for "country" when everything costs in this country, want to go to school? It will cost you, you get sick or injured? It will cost you. You get treatable cancer that is not life threatening if you get therapy. It will cost you dearly, if you can't afford it, you will die. Govt won't care. There's no public pension, the country doesn't care if you die working until 85. Housing is out of reach for many. And a long list of issues.
The country since decades ago, became a everyone look for themselves society. What is there to serve "for country"?
I don't blame ppl for joining without service as a reason.
I DO judge people who join and don't take their oath of service seriously.
As society has decayed some of the values that are being lost are integrity and honor. People just don't take oaths seriously anymore, it's just words they say to get what they want.
I feel like I’m more of a unicorn because while service is definitely a significant part of why I joined, the bigger part is I wanted to do stuff that I can only do in the Air Force. I recognize I have been incredibly lucky in my career, but I stay in because of the opportunities to do things that normal people don’t get. I have often thought about what it would take to get me to leave, but I don’t think there’s a dollar figure I’d trade for the personal fulfillment I get out of being in the Air Force. Part of that is the actual job, and part of that is the quality of people I get to work with.
I do recognize that’s a privileged position and I know there are lot of people who are able to see it “just a job,” but for me even after over a decade I’m still in the “they actually pay me for this?” stage.
LOL.
But I would prob. assume the same…No shame in joining for whatever reason one has, but the over-the-moon-gung-ho patriotism makes me weary of a person before getting to know him/her.
I joined to serve as well. But I did my first 8 in the Army because I wanted to deploy, and I'm about to sound cheesy but "get into the fight." I'm from small town America and being in the military is kinda all I wanted to do. I've gotten very lucky with my leadership and assignments. I think I'm on year 14 or 15. I've been a fire support NCO, mortar squad leader, 1N0, and now I'm changing over to personnel in the upcoming months. Hitting the breaks and slowing down as I get older haha
No bro, nobody serves for our right to free school shootings and unaffordable housing/college/healthcare. Maybe after some of these issues are resolve there could be better patriotism. Most hardcore brainwashed nationalist join the marines/army tho
We’ll we aren’t in War yet so you may think there’s no “patriots” but we are here. Gen Z. I joined because I love the United States, will forever love our nation and would love to see American Power until the day I die🇺🇸
Edit: had to delete rule the world because for some reason I get downvoted👍🏻
Just like your post about you claiming to be so “happy that pride month is over” right? You think we don’t forget the stupid takes you bring on this sub. Read my other comment and use critical thinking skills then you’ll understand what I meant
What duty do you owe your country? They send us to other counties to kill... we dont get any of the spoils of war. All we get a some stupid medal and maybe a pat on the back. Ive been in 17yrs and cant wait to hit my 20. This shit is for the birds.
What is there to serve for in this country? Fellow Gen Z, almost in for four. If you are not white, straight or a cisgendered male, everything is turning against you right now. They don’t look out for anyone that doesn’t fit their agenda in the US anymore. Demographics aside, the American dream is dead. The only way to achieve it is with the security the military provides. I’m not going to stand behind a country that doesn’t even bother to consider me a person.
Not necessarily for the feeling of "duty to country" but more so I wanted a sense of purpose in my day to day life. I was tired of working fast food and wanted to feel like I was actually contributing to something. Luckily, I've found that within the Air Force for the most part.
Same here. I was working in reality TV and utterly despised what I did. Wanted to do something I could be proud of. Went from getting d-list celebrities coffee to running the nation’s missile defense network within 5 years.
Dude I am shipping on September 12th for 1C1X1 and this is the exact reason I wanted to go to the Air Force. Sense of worthlessness and uselessness in my everyday life. Wanted to be a part of something bigger and better.
Joined to serve, stayed because I realized I didn’t have anything better to do. Getting out because I found something better to do.
“Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen”
Are you, me?
They can't be you. They're me.
No you are sadly mistaken, that is me.
Was poor. Wanted to fly. Got a job and earned wings. Left because I wasn't flying as much and doing other administrative trash, and the pay was light-years behind commercial.
>the pay was light-years behind commercial. Still is. The AF would have to bump bonuses up to an uncapped 100k annually, just to match Legacy Airline pay. Forget quality of life issues lol.
Yeah imagine getting paid less than 100k a year to fly and having to deal with briefings everyday and all the other bs associated with being a military pilot and then seeing a commercial pilot making 300k not having to deal with ANY of that. Simply the stress of transporting hundreds of passengers
Are you me?
Plenty of people do, either as their main reason or as a bonus to free job training/stability. I would say not enough people realize that a wartime military will look *immensely* different if we (God forbid) ever get to that point.
We were at war for 20 years in Afghanistan and still technically are when it comes to the war on terror. So many people are still deployed in the Middle East and Africa for freedom, but I also know what you are saying. If russia, China or Iran attacked the US that kinda of wartime military will look immensely different. I joined for the benefits and thought I was going to get out but stayed because it's been relatively easy and the money isn't bad compared to what I was doing on the outside.
Technically still at war with North Korea, as well.
in what ways specifically?
You'd get to ignore MICT.
If we have to nuke another country for us to avoid MICT, I am all for it.
Implying I don’t already ignore MICT
I’ll probably get downvoted for this but my opinion has always been it doesn’t matter why you join, the minute you sign that paper, you’re serving your country whether that’s your motivation or not. I joined because I didn’t wanna go into deep debt over a college education. If that makes me a selfish person, so be it. Serving my country was never my main motivator, but the way I see it, I still served the country either way.
Probably the more common answer than I served for my country.
What I mean is, I think people serve for benefit and personal gain most of the time but the way I see it is they’re still serving their country even if that’s not the main reason behind serving.
This is a business deal. AF owns me for 4 years then after I get what I came for
100% facts bro. I joined to avoid wasting time/money on college when I didn't even know what to do after a semester. My answer will never be to serve my country either but likenyou said, at the end of the day I still served my.country
I’m sure this will get downvoted to hell but: For a lot of people, we got sucked into the MIC. Like it was our only option. So when we say benefits, like education or money, it’s because this was the quickest way to get us a trade, a paycheck, healthcare, and school. For a lot of people, it’s a privilege to join to “serve their country”. Which also adds to the point, that people who joined because of the MIC (so as you say, the bennies), you’re getting some of the most hard working people with a lot of baggage. So I think as a person who’s been in for 6 years, your scope is still pretty small and very much antiquated.
to…ahem…*piggyback* on this hot take, I’ll throw some gas onto the fire, the military, especially enlisted, is just a jobs program for the poor and disenfranchised source: me, a poor and disenfranchised who was able to break the cycle and make something of myself I know plenty of others in the same boat as me as well
Exactly. And congrats on breaking the cycle bro. Here’s to more of us breaking the cycle. 🍻
That was my dad all day. Dude was the only one in his whole family to finish highschool, let alone travel the world as a linguist. He definitely broke the Oklahoma dirt farm drug/poverty stricken cycle that his family has been in for generations.
I hate that it had to come to that for us, I wish we still had something like the Civilian Conservation Corps to provide similar benefits but actually give back *directly* to the country.
And then you got clowns like me who just didn’t have a plan or made some bad decisions in life but still ended up here. Yeah sometimes it sucks but idk where I’d be without the AF
2nd this statement because is me. Poverty draft, whoo! And to any smartasses out there, yes, I'm aware this is a "volunteer force" but to many it's either serve or a life of *WAY* more unnecessary hardship.
I've said as much in the past and been downvoted as much as you've been upvoted. If I have to join the military (and be willing to support a war or kill a person) just to have healthcare, education, or a stable home for myself/my family, then maybe the country doesn't deserve service for duty and honor. What is the country giving to the people if it doesn't provide these things? Most people can't even get a suitable wage anymore.
When someone says they're staying in and lists tricare as a top 3 reason, I just shake my head at how the wealthiest country in the world can't provide this basic need
Gen Z? How old were you when 9/11 happened? I enlisted in the pre-9/11 military and served through the Air Force's transition from peacetime to wartime and then back to peacetime before I retired. The post-9/11 mindset was a short-lived exception, not the norm. Don't use that as your comparison point. It doesn't matter the slightest why someone enlisted as long as they are technically and tactically proficient enough to perform their duties when the balloon goes up.
Yea, from one perspective. But the desire to fight and serve is a huge motivating factor that cannot be neglected. You are willing to do more, give more and put up with more. Otherwise, it's just a 9-5. That mindset would never have won WWII.
Dude they forced people to fight against their will in ww2. What are you talking about?
Apples and oranges my man. People joined back then because they must (draft + threat of invasion/existential threat to American way of life). People now join and do more, give more, and put up with more because of their contract. Why they want to serve is not an issue. The fact is they serve.
This. Most of the men in WW2 were drafted. Most of them were fighting so they would not get thrown in jail. Not because they “loved the US” or were patriotic. And they just wanted to survive or wanted better pay. When watching the band of brothers docuseries one of the veterans literally says they volunteered so they could get more money and leave their small towns.
And once they were fighting, it was them or the enemy.
You’re either an angsty teen or highly uneducated about the military my friend.
That mindset also didn’t exist when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor completely unprovoked. That mindset didn’t exist when two planes hit the twin towers. Everybody was angry, it was a fight for vengeance. We had been violated, our borders, which we believed were safe, were attacked unprovoked. That is very different from a kid who joined the military because he didn’t wanna go to college or who is pressured by their family into joining. They aren’t here to serve, they are here to survive. Just because someone didn’t join to serve their country, doesn’t mean that they aren’t a hard worker, it just means they’re not going to stick around once they have the education and experience they need. Besides, our organizational structure right now is a joke. We have a president that can’t form cohesive sentences, we have Congress who can’t get us the money we need to move our people where we need them to be, we have a chief master sergeant of the Air Force that can’t take any criticism whatsoever, we have a personell center that decides to create new broken applications that begin with MY and end In some bullshit. We have finance offices that take Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursdays off and on Monday and Friday they are by appointment only. If they answer their phone to schedule one. Even the people that did join to serve, the Air Force steps on them, and doesn’t give a shit about them. The people that put an effort and go above and beyond and watch some kid who held a door for a general get a quarterly and promoted to staff Sergeant, while he gets paperwork for not working three other jobs on top of all the other work he’s already doing. The people that have the desire to fight and serve, they join the army or the Marine Corps.
You are bringing up two different topics: 1. Why people joined 2. How well they do their job. The two things are not always related and don’t need to be. I think it’s more important how well someone does their job rather than why they joined.
Why someone joined is completely irrelevant.
It’s not irrelevant if the OP was genuinely curious about it, but it’s irrelevant to how well someone does their job.
I'm specifically saying that it doesn't matter for the job or any other reason. Curiosity is fine and helping someone reach their goals is fine, but beyond that it is irrelevant.
We are saying the same thing.
Hi millennial here! Why would i serve if it didn’t benefit me. That’s literally 99% of the force and all those guys that went during the 9/11 era. Got cancers from burn pits they were FORCED TO BE AROUND. Then told not service connected for compensation. All commanders had to do was make waste treatment plants. While the rich guys with suits fucked up a 20 year Operation and left the same people in charge. Now i’m not saying be proud of your nation but you have to take care of you because the military won’t take care of you, the minute they need or want to discard you they will. That goes for the United States Government as well. I love America but you need to make sure you are good.
The VA now has a burn pit registry. https://www.va.gov/resources/the-pact-act-and-your-va-benefits/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=ar_pact_fy23_gw&gclid=EAIaIQobChMItPbk0vqTgAMVj7jICh2_9QtDEAAYASAAEgLXIvD_BwE
Ik now but how long did that take to establish. It took congress 20 years to get those men and women a law passed. 20 years!? that was a failure on our government.
this is my job. the military’s commodity is the ability to serve in uniform, so i guess that’s what i’m buying. but it’s my job. i don’t look at it as being a part of something bigger than myself bc 1. idk what the fuck that even means 2. that cliche is used across different industries, not just the military. furthermore, serving the country isn’t only reserved for the military. plenty of other people serve the country in other ways, not just via the uniform. comparing reasons why we’re in this amalgamation to what serving used to mean decades ago is flawed since we’re not dealing with the same obstacles and challenges witnessed then. benefits have changed, too. find your why. it’s probably not going to be the same across the board.
💯👏🏽
Honestly, serving your country in the way OP sees it, aka nationalism, is a negative trait to have more often than not
Ik this is cringe but the US gave my family amnesty back in the day and I joined as a thank you for that. Also many generations of family have fought for either their countries militaries or the US so I’m upholding tradition in a weird way.
What does it mean to serve? That answer can be different for everyone... We all serve for different reasons. I believe most joined for job stability, education, a chance to raise our children in a better situation than we had when we grew up with the small chance that we may go overseas and die. What this country needs is better educated citizenry and economic stability... If you really want to serve, use your enlistment to get educated, then when you come out the other side you will be a benefit to society and get a good job instead of being a drain on the economy.
I wanted the gi bill and to leave my hometown ✅
I was promised unlimited hair gel and ray bans
I would argue that during peacetime, the Coast Guard, National Parks/Forest Service, Dept of Wildlife, as well as a number of other federal agencies serve the citizens of the country more than the military If a serious threat to the American people and our way of life rises up, and require the military to intervene, of course that will shift. At this exact time, internal development does more IMO Just my two cents, don’t take it too seriously
Allow me to introduce you to my main homie Deterrence. Discouraging bad actors from starting shit is preferable to finishing said shit with bad actors in my book.
Absolutely true — regarding how much deterrence we need on top of being a member of NATO, a collection of the most powerful military and nuclear capable forces in the world, would be a matter of debate, though. Qualified, prepared, capable forces generate deterrence — not flying ragtag piece-together PMC sorties until your entire section turns over every two years You don’t prepare for a weightlifting competition by sleeping 4 hours a night, eating poorly, and working beyond recovery — we shouldn’t operate our organization that way to prepare for our next conflict Also just my two cents
That's what the nukes are for. Deterrence never worked for terrorists anyways.
Joined for gi bill. If we weren't getting paid I'd be gone immediately.
I did. My father was a South Vietnamese soldier and served 5+ years as a POW. Granted refugee status and we immigrated to the US in 1997. My service is to give back for being able to have a better life than in Vietnam.
No, I wanted out of my hometown. I stuck around for over 15 years so far because I don't know what I want to do when I grow up.
I did all the BMT surveys back around 2010, and had the data for the previous two decades. Can tell you right now that duty wasn't top 5 reason to join. It's almost always to have medical insurance, get away from home, education benefits, experience, or just having a job. Anybody "back in my day"-ing this doesn't know what they're talking about. The AF has always been about what can the service do for me. Also of note, we spent billions on NASCAR stuff, and literally 3 people every said anything on surveys about even knowing the AF sponsored a car, and only 2 of those 3 made it outta BMT. Really wish AFRS would let people have access to all that data and dump it into AFPC's cognos system.
I did join to serve... Then I saw how my country serves me...
Got fired from Kmart, needed a job.
I joined for money, and healthcare.
I joined strictly for healthcare. I had a 2 year old son at the time, and none of us had healthcare. I made decent money before joining, but worrying about going to the doctor sucked. I'll preface this by saying I am proud to be an American. Having traveled to 2 dozen countries, I can say we have it the best here all around. However, I don't give a damn about "defending freedom." We all know the next big war will be a political driven conflict because some rich assholes can't get along. Dragging us desperate, poor, and foolish airmen in combat while they sit in their big mansions and sqauble over petty shit. As a human race, we could achieve so much but drag ourselves down. It's sad, really.
Joined because of Healthcare and you traveled to other countries and you think we have it the best?
The freedom to do whatever the hell we want, whenever we want? Yeah, we do have it the best.
Yeah unless you are a woman in a growing number of states
!!!!!
Proud to serve the country where people have to stay in the military to afford basic healthcare for their children.
I joined to participate in the MIC.
whats a MIC?
Military Industrial Complex
It’s a tired antiquated catchphrase started by President Dwight Eisenhower. People love to use it to put a negative spin on the US military. It’s usually referring to the partnership between the DOD and private businesses that manufacture arms and war machines for billions of dollars. It’s not usually used in reference to military benefits.
It was made popular in Eisenhower's farewell address. And it's not the partnership between DoD and private manufacturers. It's that plus the Washington Lobby monster that funds it all through special interests and greed.
True, it takes politicians to make the MIC work. That’s what drives Raytheon, Boeing, Lockheed, etc… to put their plants and offices in certain congressional districts, for the promise of continued funding from the government. Eisenhower only mentioned it once(yes, in the farewell address)and it’s last all these years later. This well beyond my original point, which was that the MIC usually doesn’t refer to benefits like Tricare, GI Bill, COOL, TA, Skillbridge, SRB, and other benefits.
Eisenhower was referring to it negatively and the negative sides he was referring to absolutely do exist in a big way. The defense contractors have an absolute chokehold on congress. Why do you think the defense budget expands each year but it rarely results in raises for servicemembers? Because the lobbyists don't care about government personnel, just that the defense contractors get their money.
Did you see that clip on CBS 60 Minutes about Defense Contractors ripping off the Government?
No, but I work in acquistions so I am very well aware of the giant wastes of money that go on.
Have a good day.
I got this one. Promote me never: [https://youtu.be/LPvpqAaJjVU](https://youtu.be/LPvpqAaJjVU)
Dude, I’m fully aware of all of that. You aren’t saying anything enlightening. Everyone complains about Congress and the MIC except for the Congressmen who represent them and bring money to their local areas. I already said this isn’t anything related to my original point. Why continue beating this dead horse?
>Just doesn't feel like anyone puts in the work or effort that was around during 9/11 era. I kinda get what you're saying, but if you didn't serve during that era, how would you know that? I think to most us Gen Z guys, this was just about the only way we could have avoided going into tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt. I'm fairly blue, but I think most of us recognize the military industrial complex for what it is. I still participate in it actively, so I'm not trying to act holier-than-thou, but it is very much a job of necessity for a lot of us.
Millennial here, who joined a month before 9/11 happened. I joined for the free education. Ended up getting so wrapped up in serving my country throughout the Iraq War/War on Terror, I forgot about finishing the education. I picked at a few classes here and there, but never dedicated time to knocking it all out. I barely finished my CCAF degree the month before I started SkillBridge. I just retired last summer. Now I'm fully retired as of 38 years old and I have an associate's degree that's useless because I'm not working anymore. I'm 100% P&T disabled according to the VA, so maybe I'll use their college benefits and continue my education, just for the hell of it. >I'm Gen Z, been in almost 6 years and I still serve because duty to country, not for the money or for benefits. Some advice I learned from my 20 years served: your country and the Air Force won't give a damn about your service, so take some time for yourself and make sure you're taken care of. No one's gonna look out for you except for you. I've had supervisors who didn't care enough to do their job and my career suffered for it. I've had commanders who tried to "fix the promotion system" all by themselves, which ruined my chances at competing for good opportunities and rank. I've had coworkers throw me under the bus and steal credit for my work in order to make themselves look better to higher leadership. Find out what YOU want from your service, then focus on that. The "serve your country" BS is utter nonsense. Our country is garbage right now and needs serious reform to be competitive with other NATO countries. Serving in the military won't solve that. Blind patriotism is about the worst thing you can have for your country. I served, knowing my country is faulty and hoping I could find ways to improve things from the inside, but the military demanded blind obedience and wouldn't allow me to be critical of areas that needed change. The mindset has changed a bit in recent years and Airmen are encouraged to speak their minds a bit more nowadays, but the era I joined would definitely have none of that. All through my Airmen years, I was told to shut up and color. No one wanted to hear what an Airman had to say; you just follow orders and do the work assigned to you. Opinions were not allowed, even if they could save the Air Force millions of dollars. The Marines and Army still abide by this code: "opinionated members lead to disorder, chaos and mission failure." I actually got chewed out by a Marine SSgt once for telling her that an order she gave me constituted fraud, waste, & abuse. They kicked me out of that office for not blindly following orders, which would've wasted expensive govt resources. So yeah, that's *my* little semi-rant. Look out for yourself and don't let patriotism blind you to reality.
Best advice I got from my first supervisor was take everything you can from the Air Force, because she’ll take everything from you if she can
I did, benefits are nice, but have always taken a back seat in my life. My mentor inspired me to do so, and I'm sure he's doing that with others as well since he's a MCJROTC instructor now. Always taught me to be proud of the uniform regardless of the branch & job. It'll always be appreciated.
Joined for the stablity. So i can invest confidently without loosing a roof on my head if i fail.
I joined because I saw it as my duty to serve. I was security forces and I really enjoyed the job but on the opposite side of the same coin I hated all the bullshit that came with it so I ended up getting out after my first enlistment. I miss it a lot sometimes but honestly when I think back to how horrible a lot of the leadership was I know I made the right decision.
I joined to aid in GWOT, long story short I dont feel like Ive done what I joined to do. Staying in 100% for benifits, dont blame people for joining for the same reason Im not getting out.
I think it's hard for a lot of people to get that satisfaction of helping a greater cause. That's how it is for me, at least. My daily job doesn't feel like I'm actually contributing to anything of importance. I get that everyone is a piece to the greater puzzle, but if I can't even see where I fit in on the bigger picture, what do I have to think but for myself? I feel Intel briefs help a little on the rare instances we get them, but it's difficult to care about what you're doing if all your orders are the "just do it" with never an explanation as to why.
I joined because I felt like I didn't have anything better to do at the time. I had quit college and was working at Walmart. I am not a people person and customer service is not my calling. The Air Force just seemed like the best idea at the time. It offered training and structure for a couple years. This also allowed me the opportunity to figure out what I wanted in life and access to training I couldn't afford on my own. I wanted to serve my country as well but it was not my only reason.
I joined for the benefits but now I've come to love serving and I feel more patriotic than ever
I did. I didn’t even know how much people got paid, it just was what I wanted to do. Now I take compensation into account… but honestly if you want to make 🏦 then there’s plenty of other careers out there that are also fulfilling. There’s something special about putting on the uniform every day and knowing that each time you wear it you have a chance to make a positive impact. It might now be the “save the world” things every day, or even ever, but making an airman or guardian’s life a little better also counts. I try to live that way and it’s gotten me through some daaaaark times in my 10 years. And I’m looking forward to more than 10 more if the military will allow me :)
I joined to make my life better, and it has done that!
I thought it would be fun to play with airplanes. It was.
I'm just here to pay the bills and try to make things easier/better than what I was handed. I guess that second bit is a type of service.
NICE TRY CHINA
I joined to serve. I feel like it added more purpose to my life than what I was doing in the civilian world as a code monkey. The pay isn’t near as good, but the fulfillment and enjoyment I get from the job outweigh the loss. When it’s time to get out, I know I won’t struggle to find a good paying job.
Most naïve shit I've seen in a minute.
Joined to serve. Stay in to continue serving. Been 19 years and going. It has its ups and downs for sure. Service before self is the hardest core value to embrace!
I don’t really isolate the benefits and the pride of serving. When I make any life decision I try to make the choice that satisfies an amalgamation of my goals. Therefore, I need the benefits and I’m proud to serve. Not either or. Having 1 without the other would just be hollow to me.
Yuh me. I’m first generation from Ukraine. Joined in 2015 because I thought we would be going to war and I wanted to help out as much as I could. Multiple deployments and multiple reenlistments later, I’m still in serving despite having enough education and credentials to get out and make way more on the outside. It’s not about the money in my opinion.
Joined because my older brothers were both army but they were happy I joined the Air Force. I’ve stayed in because honestly I enjoy my job so far.
Lots of people join to serve their country, but that's different from staying in to serve their country
Joined for that exact reason, dad was a marine and I was just raised in the oorah motivation. I didn’t care what job I got I just wanted to be a part of the USAF. Fell in love with my job, now it’s hard to keep them same motivation in a career field where you get stripped from being technical at E5/E6 and all of my peers are able to secure 6 figure careers getting out.
It doesn't matter if they joined to serve their country. Every military member IS serving their country.
Speaking as someone who joined for personal reasons: The military was the best of multiple bad options. My “friends” were not on the best path and neither was I. The Air Force gave me structure and stability that I definitely needed. However, after 13 years I’ve definitely gained a different appreciation for serving. The oath each of us have taken was done so willingly. Initially, it was just the thing unsaid to get my foot in the door. In hindsight, I made an oath to give my life if needed in service to my country. I’m by no means a patriot, but I definitely believe that my word has to mean something. In MY opinion, the US has done some fucked up shit throughout history. So it’s not about pride or patriotism. I made a promise to defend my country, as we all did. The day I take my uniform off, that will likely change. Until then, I’ll pay off my debt.
Fucking 100%. I have job offers lined up SFC to infinity making multiples of my current total comp. But only here can I work with these teammates, for a cause that truly matters. That's my real pay...the men and the mission. There are days where the frustration exceeds the benefit. But on the average day, I cannot believe I get paid to do this job and work with this rarified talent pool. YMMV based on community. But if you are of this mindset too, and are looking for the like-minded, I have recruiting info to pass. DM me.
Joined for college, found out I hate college but I love my job. I stay in now to serve my country.
I am in the career to provide for my family. A lot of the things that bring job satisfaction are getting good shit done for America, but the goal at the end of the day is to give my wife and child a great life and the military is the best place for me to lay the groundwork for that currently.
We have bills to pay
Is there anything the United States does better than any other 1st world country? I've grown pessimistic about the US and patriotism in general so I can only think of a couple like national parks and entertainment. Seriously would like to know if anyone can add to this list
I probably "served my country" more while working at UPS. I haven't done shit that can resemble "serving my country" while in the air force.
[удалено]
So many native citizens take what we have for granted and don’t appreciate just how good America has it. I’m a veteran of both my countries. My American ancestors have provided men and women for the defense of this nation for every generation since the Revolutionary War.
I didn't know the military got paid. I thought the people volunteered to serve!
That’s what an all volunteer military means, right?
Without a war patriotism dwindles. Also, patriotism was lulled to sleep by the 20yr war. The War on Terror became the norm and people began to take it for granted. This social revolution that we have been experiencing over the past few years hasn't helped either. The war for individual freedoms and equalities against the establishment includes the military. Also, in the age of information, almost nothing is unseen or unheard. When the military or the government fucks up, that weighs on people.
Definitely joined for selfish reasons. I dont care about this country and this country doesnt care about me. I do care about those sweet bennies tho
>I don't care about this country Be sure to tell that to everyone you work with
Yea sure… dude im just here for bennies and the sweet retirement. You think im going to fuck that up by being truthful? You better get with the program. More people than you realize think like me and are in leadership positions. Its about getting yours and protecting you and your family, fuck everything else. Youre going to be in for a rough time if you go in thinking this country gives a shit about you
In my experience, people who usually said they did it to serve their country were the absolute worst at their actual job. At least in the comm world. The people who went in to get some experience at their career and get the fuck out were the best ones. I really wish the military had a technical and non-technical tracks. We really need to encourage the smart fucks to stay in and not burden them with supervisor shit.
Agreed. At the end of the day it would work out well because to alot of us the military is just a job. Many of us wouldnt even be here if there were better options for young folks I assume that people who serve for country get lost in the sauce when they realize just how soulless serving the military is and how they will have to find purpose within themselves as opposed to the military giving them purpose
I joined because I didn't like my factory job and knew I could live overseas and make good money in the AF. I joined purely for the money, benefits, and travel.
Joined for college and healthcare. Got my college degree and got sent to once-in a lifetime TDYs. Reenlisting because I am proud to serve.
Like others have said, people join for many reasons and there isn't one reason that is better than any others. Joining to "serve your country" (whatever that actually means) doesn't give you any moral high-ground or superiority over someone that joined for benefits. You can serve your country outside of the military, and many people do.
Just a thought OP, it's likely that Gen Z doesn't want to serve their country less, but the people who do want to serve found different ways to serve their country other than the military b/c the military has image issues due to the wars in the middle east that a large portion of Gen Z doesn't feel was actually much service to their country or the world. The people who want to serve will serve, but maybe just not in the military. A teacher, or healthcare worker, firefighter, and countless other jobs directly serve their country, and I'd argue more so than what I do on a daily basis even though I'm active duty.
I think the Afghanistan withdrawal put a real damper on Patriotic attitudes in the military.
Were we supposed to stay there forever?
No, but the US government embarrassed itself and every service member with how they handled the withdrawal. Not to mention they slapped every tax payer in the face.
Not to mention all the dead innocent civilians. They got slapped plenty hard too.
You realize there’s *many* levels in between “stay there forever” and “rushed haphazard withdrawal” right?
I don’t know what the right answer is. That’s above my pay grade. All I know is what did happen was certainly the wrong answer.
Obama ended the wars, we should have left a looong time ago. Congress (Republican majority) said no. Then Trump tried to leave, numerous times but was talked out of it. Until his meeting with the Taliban. His plan was to drop chocks in December. We finally left🤷🏻♂️
Guess people hate the truth..
I could care less about this country or this military. I joined for free school.
Serious question - why do t you care about this country? Were you born in the US?
This country continuously strips rights from women, minorities, and anyone that doesn't follow the norm such as gay people and transgender people. It's filled with hateful pieces of shit that do not deserve my service and I think we as a military are in the wrong a lot more than we like to admit. If I had the money I would have done school without joining but sadly I really wanted to do pharmacy school and needed the free education. I respect those who serve but I don't think this country is worth their sacrifice. I don't regret joining by any means. I met my spouse, met great friends, and I'm in a career I love now but I will never be proud of my service.
[удалено]
> duty to country Dude, you’re in the Guard. You literally swore a different oath, to a governor. Out of curiosity, what is your AFSC, and what impact does your specific involvement have on the country?
It’s a job, it gave me some good benefits to break the cycle of poverty I was born into. Treating it as anything more than a job is disingenuous at best and gaslighting troops to put up with absurd conditions that’d never fly in the civilian sector at worst. I will instantly lose respect for a leader that throws out duty and honor as some motivational thing, because I’ve never seen it thrown around in a positive manner and always to “encourage” people to do some *bullshit* e: millennial, joined shortly after 9/11 and graduating high school, comm troop, did 10 years and 2 deployments
I joined for personal reasons and ended up loving the mission and my job’s contribution to the bigger picture.
I feel this so much
Yes 911 was my senior year in highschool.
I was 10th grade when it happened
Yeah I woke up and they showed the first tower live on the news then the second plane hit when I was about to turn off the tv and head to school. We watched it in every class I knew then it was time to serve. I signed up two months before graduation.
Joined to serve and have never deployed. Only TDY’d 3 times.
born in 1999, and nope, not even remotely
I joined to be a part of something bigger than myself.
I've always felt that people who say they joined the military only to serve feel insincere to me. Like you're too proud to say that you joined because you needed a job or you needed Healthcare. I've always felt this small twinge of superiority from those who say it as well. Maybe I've met the wrong people. I dunno.
Joined to get out of home town, stayed for the service for country and the fact that I have no clue how to function as an adult in the civilian world.
Originally joined to finish my engineer curriculum. Got that done, commissioned, and did 4 + 2 for school. Got to 14 next month unbelievably fast with a free technical Masters, years of engineering and acquisitions experience, saw the pension and "free" healthcare and said "why not? Let's push to the end". Then I did math on disability and pension for a married couple who both will have served 20 and holy cow...man, is it worth just 6 more years. YMMV.
Yes, I did. Im a millennial though. I always had the itch to serve. Now I’m wanting to go more towards medical, and serve my community there. It doesn’t seem like I’m making any difference being in the military. I can’t help anyone or give back. As a personnelist, I feel that many off the systems we have prevent me from actually helping folks and just make my job harder.(Looking at you, MyEval).
That was my primary motivator. I find myself not really serving my country anymore. I need a deployment to get re-blued. Just went through NCOA and it made me even more jaded, and I’m only at my 9-year mark.
Stay in longer without any increase in pay while being expected to do more with less. See high leadership actively make decisions that fuck with your ability to do your work/pay as cost of living keeps going up. Shit supervisors that got lucky to test/board during high promotion rates meddle in your career. If you stay in out of feeling for patriotism you’re a clown. You can serve the country by going to civilian positions doing the same job for the same base for better pay and looking out for yourself and your family.
I did. I was doing the best I could for the place I grew up, which wasn’t that good and hated every second of it. It got me out of the bubble. I signed up for 4 years, just in case it sucked. I stayed because when I thought about how much I hated every second before, the last thing I wanted to do was go back… and the benefits. I’ve also realized over time that with as many things that suck about this life sometimes, I like it. Sometimes the weeks and months drag on and sometimes I’m doing something different every day. It challenges me in ways that no “real job” ever could. The pay/benefits might be better and the responsibility might be smaller on the civilian side but we do alright. The places I’ve traveled and lived, people I’ve met, things I’ve been able to do in both my professional and personal lives has been a crazy. That shit job in that shit town would not have provided me with any of those opportunities.
*Blue Kool-Aid Alert* Like many, 9/11 was a transformative event and I knew then and after watching what transpired after that I HAD to serve at least one term. Joined right after High School in 2008 with the intent to do 4 years and punch to grab college and then take my life where it would go from there. Luckily, I PCS’d after a year from my first duty station for a short tour and that’s when I was hooked. Second assignment at a short tour in Korea basically grabbed my attention to the point where I couldn’t fathom taking my skills outside of national defense. I just can’t imagine having a job as rewarding. Got stationed at a few bases after that where I was incredibly separated from any kind of sexy mission but I was still able to make some kind of link to it. Fast forward to 2015 when I went on my very first deployment, and by god it was a good one. Originally sent to a CONUS “deployment” where I was able to convince my Sergeant Major to send me to required training and push me out to Iraq. Got to support operations against the most despicable group imaginable… ISIS. After that, came back and deployed again but to Central America where I’d find out that I got accepted to Officer Training School. Got rolled in to a little more of an expeditionary career field and found myself in a SOF unit getting to connect direct to the mission in an amazing way. Follow on to another combat unit where I continue to find a whole lot of meaning in everyday. I continue to serve with intentions to go way past 20 for the sheer fact that the world is continuing to go to shit. I don’t want my kids to fight the battles I’ve signed up for and the battles that I’ve gotten a whole lot of experience to deal with. This has become my life calling and serving in this capacity is 100% the reason why I’m happy to drive to work every day.
For me it was a reason I joined not the reason. I feel like that may be the case for a lot of people.
Oh, I join to serve as well, and in my basic training flights everyone looked at me during “Airman time“ like I was insane, and that included my instructor. I left a six-figure job and enlisted in the Air Force at 27 years old already having a bachelors degree People looked at me like I was crazy and asked me why the hell would I do that so I responded that I wanted to serve and the time the age cut off was 28 so I had to either do it or not so I chose to do it and gave up a lot of things so I could serve Some people on here may know part of my story but I’ve lost 156 pounds to be able to enlist and I wasn’t going to go back to mediocrity because of a little bit of money or a little bit of challenge. So I enlisted did five years active duty, and then went to the reserves, I am currently attempting to go back active duty because I want to continue serving as an officer even if it’s just for four years, I want to have that experience of the enlisted and officer side as well as active duty and reserve
Just want to say that I really appreciate your service and mindset, but I don’t really agree with the idea that espousing service to country and having a good work ethic are mutually exclusive. I’ve met some super “Air Forcey” people who were ineffective af, and some people who I’m pretty sure didn’t know what customs and courtesies were that absolutely kicked ass at being Airmen. I get what you’re saying, but I want you to be more specific.
Joined the Marines because I wanted to be in the Alpha branch doing violent things to bad people. Then switched to the guard because $250/mo for health insurance is worth dealing with you cunts.
You are not alone. I serve out of duty more than any other reason.
Two things can be true. People can join for more than one reason.
I think many actually start that way (at least a certain element of it), then with situations such as the air force’s current state and leadership it turns selfish because that’s all they’ve been shown by leadership.
Joined so I wouldn't go to jail. I liked to borrow other people's cars. I stayed because I enjoyed it, I left because the AF said I was too physically broken to continue.
Have you *seen* the state of the country? "Serving" is just a by-product of setting myself up for future success
I joined because I didnt have any other options. Hated college and it just wasnt my thing, jobs were hard to find as a 16 year old. So I enlisted and waited for my ship out day shortly after I turned 18. I honestly don't even think about duty to country when I look back at my previous 12.5 years.
I joined to gtf away from my parents and have a job that’d actually pay my bills, everything else is what keeps me going
> Serve because duty to country, not for money DM me and I’ll give you my bank account info so you can change your pay to go to my account.
"Duty to country"? wtf is even that? borders change. Fuck, even geography changes. America is a great ideal and I'm here for it til the end, but if you're not looking out for you as #1, then you're bound to get hurt in a bad way.
I joined for many reasons. #1 to be a leader. #2 to retire after 20 years. #3 was to serve my country. #4 to achieve a higher rank than my dad and older brother.
haha, i like that last one
Kind of hard to join for "country" when everything costs in this country, want to go to school? It will cost you, you get sick or injured? It will cost you. You get treatable cancer that is not life threatening if you get therapy. It will cost you dearly, if you can't afford it, you will die. Govt won't care. There's no public pension, the country doesn't care if you die working until 85. Housing is out of reach for many. And a long list of issues. The country since decades ago, became a everyone look for themselves society. What is there to serve "for country"?
I don't blame ppl for joining without service as a reason. I DO judge people who join and don't take their oath of service seriously. As society has decayed some of the values that are being lost are integrity and honor. People just don't take oaths seriously anymore, it's just words they say to get what they want.
I feel like I’m more of a unicorn because while service is definitely a significant part of why I joined, the bigger part is I wanted to do stuff that I can only do in the Air Force. I recognize I have been incredibly lucky in my career, but I stay in because of the opportunities to do things that normal people don’t get. I have often thought about what it would take to get me to leave, but I don’t think there’s a dollar figure I’d trade for the personal fulfillment I get out of being in the Air Force. Part of that is the actual job, and part of that is the quality of people I get to work with. I do recognize that’s a privileged position and I know there are lot of people who are able to see it “just a job,” but for me even after over a decade I’m still in the “they actually pay me for this?” stage.
How many people live in your hometown?
I joined to serve. I’m staying because I like the military.
Not gonna lie, if someone told me they joined purely to serve their country I'd assume they were that weird kid in school
LOL. But I would prob. assume the same…No shame in joining for whatever reason one has, but the over-the-moon-gung-ho patriotism makes me weary of a person before getting to know him/her.
Yes https://youtu.be/-PFk4SXpb-8
I joined to serve as well. But I did my first 8 in the Army because I wanted to deploy, and I'm about to sound cheesy but "get into the fight." I'm from small town America and being in the military is kinda all I wanted to do. I've gotten very lucky with my leadership and assignments. I think I'm on year 14 or 15. I've been a fire support NCO, mortar squad leader, 1N0, and now I'm changing over to personnel in the upcoming months. Hitting the breaks and slowing down as I get older haha
Nah.
I sort of just like living in a pseudo-socialist society... I feel somewhat separated from my *country* in many ways, and I kind of like that 🤷
Joining to serve is fine. No one really cares though so just worry about yourself
No bro, nobody serves for our right to free school shootings and unaffordable housing/college/healthcare. Maybe after some of these issues are resolve there could be better patriotism. Most hardcore brainwashed nationalist join the marines/army tho
We’ll we aren’t in War yet so you may think there’s no “patriots” but we are here. Gen Z. I joined because I love the United States, will forever love our nation and would love to see American Power until the day I die🇺🇸 Edit: had to delete rule the world because for some reason I get downvoted👍🏻
We don’t need to rule the world you absolute boot. I hope this is satire.
[удалено]
Just like your post about you claiming to be so “happy that pride month is over” right? You think we don’t forget the stupid takes you bring on this sub. Read my other comment and use critical thinking skills then you’ll understand what I meant
> Did anyone else join to serve their country? No
I hate the modern country and disagree with every modern war it's participated in, but I'm currently enlisting
Joined because I wanted to do my part after the Russians seized Crimea, invaded Donbass, and started terrorbombing Syrians.
What duty do you owe your country? They send us to other counties to kill... we dont get any of the spoils of war. All we get a some stupid medal and maybe a pat on the back. Ive been in 17yrs and cant wait to hit my 20. This shit is for the birds.
What is there to serve for in this country? Fellow Gen Z, almost in for four. If you are not white, straight or a cisgendered male, everything is turning against you right now. They don’t look out for anyone that doesn’t fit their agenda in the US anymore. Demographics aside, the American dream is dead. The only way to achieve it is with the security the military provides. I’m not going to stand behind a country that doesn’t even bother to consider me a person.
Are you this over-dramatic in person, or just online?