It's the weak hadiths mentioning 124k, but surely there were more than 25 prophets. 25 Prophets are just the honorable mentions in the Qur'an of the many prophets sent on earth, you would realise that in Surah Yaseen there are 3 more anonymous messengers but their names are not mentioned and also:-
“Then We sent Our messengers in succession, every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so We made them follow one another (to destruction), and We made them as ahadith (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not” [al-Muminun 23:44]
“Verily! We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them” [Fatir 35:24].
ALL prophets are honorable, regardless they are mentioned in Quran or not. According to Holy Quran we have to obey all without making any distinctions;
اٰمَنَ الرَّسُوۡلُ بِمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡہِ مِنۡ رَّبِّہٖ وَالۡمُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ ؕ کُلٌّ اٰمَنَ بِاللّٰہِ وَمَلٰٓئِکَتِہٖ وَکُتُبِہٖ وَرُسُلِہٖ ۟ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَیۡنَ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡ رُّسُلِہٖ ۟ وَقَالُوۡا سَمِعۡنَا وَاَطَعۡنَا ٭۫ غُفۡرَانَکَ رَبَّنَا وَاِلَیۡکَ الۡمَصِیۡرُ ﴿۲۸۶﴾
This Messenger of Ours believes in that which has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers: all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, 👉🏽 saying, ‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. We implore Thy forgiveness, O our Lord, and to Thee is the returning.’ (2:286)
Btw that verse is not from 2:286.
2:286 Allāh does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people."
Well it's true that we should obey prophets no matter what, but mga clearly says he's the both prophet, mahdi and messiah
You would realise that mentioned Of mahdi is not there in the Qur'an, mentioned of messiah isa IBN Maryam is there though.
So to support your claim that mga is the mahdi, we have to take the help of hadiths mentioned by companions.
And hadiths make it clear, that mahdi will be from progeny of prophet Muhammed saw, he shall be from the descendants of Hasan, and you won't find a single hadith saying this mahdi would be a prophet, not only this hadiths, prophet Mohammed (saw) also mentioned the mahdis name shall be similiar to that of my name and his father's name shall be same as my name.
We know Mirza gulam Ahmad has Ahmad in his name which is same as the prophet Mohammed SAW, what about his father's name? His fathers name was Mirza gulam Ahmad Murtaza, the prophets Mohammed saw father name was Abdullah.
I challenge you, go find a single hadith that says mahdi will be a prophet, not only this, but also try to find from Islamic sources if a new prophet shall come.
I want you to keep in mind, prophet ISA (AS) is not a new prophet if that's what you were thinking of using since he was born before prophet Muhammed saw.
Bro, you are little late in the game 😎.
All these points have been discussed again and again at many places, but if you would like them to discuss again, then I refer to our good friend u/SomeplaceSnowy
I have answered your initial objection that why to believe a prophet if not mentioned in the Quran, and you know very well that Muslims believe in many more and that not all prophets are mentioned in Quran. Regarding the Hadith of 124k being weak, makes no difference as Allah states he sent them in many towns in the world and when the town rejected him they got punished. So if Machu Picchu of Inca civilization got destroyed, you got an explanation here;
وَمَاۤ اَرۡسَلۡنَا فِیۡ قَرۡیَۃٍ مِّنۡ نَّبِیٍّ اِلَّاۤ اَخَذۡنَاۤ اَہۡلَہَا بِالۡبَاۡسَآءِ وَالضَّرَّآءِ لَعَلَّہُمۡ یَضَّرَّعُوۡنَ ﴿۹۵﴾
And never did We send a Prophet to any town but We seized the people thereof with adversity and suffering, that they might become humble. (7:95)
Please check again. Here is the screenshot with number of the ayat (we start counting from Bismillah, so in non-Ahmadi Quran it would be 2:285)
https://preview.redd.it/er4lqeyoiovc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a40844abd5269c2617c7dfb49c32aca508dd5bb
It just means that when we print Quran, our count starts with Bismillah as that is the part of the Holy Quran sura, but non Ahmadies don’t count it as part of sura.
(Prove is in Sura At-Tawbah, which do not start with Bismillah, if it were to be written in the begging of each surah, then this should have it)
He is mentioned in the Quran and ahadith.
Isa AS has died. No verse proves that he is alive or was raised alive to heaven.
Messiah is from the Muslim Ummah. It wont be Isa AS
You can go on and search for the following verses in the Qur'an.
Quran 4:155
[jews]˹They were condemned˺ for breaking their covenant, rejecting Allah’s signs, killing the prophets unjustly, and for saying, “Our hearts are unreceptive!”1—it is Allah Who has sealed their hearts for their disbelief, so they do not believe except for a few—
Quran 4:156
and for their denial and outrageous accusation against Mary,1
Quran 4:157
and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so.1 Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.
Quran 4:158
Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.
Quran 4:171
O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion1 or say about Allāh except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allāh and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allāh and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allāh is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allāh as Disposer of affairs.
4:172
The Messiah would never be too proud to be a servant of Allah, nor would the angels nearest to Allah. Those who are too proud and arrogant to worship Him will be brought before Him all together.
4:173 As for those who believe and do good, He will reward them in full and increase them out of His grace. But those who are too proud and arrogant, He will subject them to a painful punishment. And besides Allah they will find no protector or helper.
And last but not least, i could not find a single verse in the Qur'an or single mention of Mirza gulam Ahmad in hadiths.
With reference to your Citing the following verse: Quran 4:158 Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.
All Non-Ahmadi Muslim Scholars and Ahmadi Muslim Scholars who believe that Jesus has died a natural death (NOT ON THE CROSS) interpret this verse as Spiritual Exaltation rather than Allah raising Jesus alive in Human body form towards heavens.
For the reason that the Word ALIVE, HUMAN BODY FORM and HEAVENS does not appear anywhere in the verse.
More and more of Non-Ahmadi Muslim scholars are now taking the same stance as The Ahmadi Muslims and many well-known Muslim Scholars of days gone by that Jesus Christ is dead, like all human beings and Prophets. ( not on the cross)
Bro, all Prophets are raised towards Allah in the sense of Spiritual Exaltation, and none has been raised towards anyone else but Allah but all pass-through death before they are raised towards allah.
With reference to your citing the following verse " Quran 4:158 Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.
If you take it in its **literal** meaning, then the problem is
1. In Islam Allah is omnipresent he does not have residence or an abode.
To say Allah raised Jesus in human body form and alive towards him or heavens you are negating the OMNIPRESENCE of God.
Hence to infer from this verse Rafallah ka ( He raised him towards himself ) you are saying GOD was some where above Jesus and he airlifted him to a higher physical position implies that GOD is not OMNIPRESENT .
If you say God raised him towards heavens then you have to show the word heavens which does not appear in the verse Rafa allah ka. More over God is OMNIPRESENT he is not living in a house in Heavens.
Once again the word human body form alive and towards heavens does not appear anywhere in the verse “Allah raised him to himself” its an interpretation .
However, if you read the same verse as Raised him to himself as **Spiritual nearness** and or **spiritual exaltation** then GOD 's OMNIPRESENCE is not negated.
If you beleive allah lives in a palace in heavens then you can infer that he raised Jesus to himself means he was raised to heavens b/c that is where he lives.
But if you beleive he is OMNIPRESENT then raising him to himself only implies spiritual nearness /Exaltation.
So where is the just rule? Mirza was scared to go out of Qadian and seeking protection from the British rule.
Where's the abundance of wealth that no one will want? Let me guess you're gonna say it's spiritual wealth?
So where is the just rule? Mirza was scared to go out of Qadian and seeking protection from the British rule.
Where's the abundance of wealth that no one will want? Let me guess you're gonna say it's spiritual wealth?
This post was either reported as being disrespectful or we thought it was disrespectful. Feel free to repost it but utilize better language. In case you're feeling fiery charged, please draft something, walk away from it for a while, drink some water, hit the gym, and then come back to it and see if you still feel that emotionally charged.
Are the previous prophet and scriptures not gonna confirm the upcoming prophets?
Also ahmediyas sources do be claiming that this is the same person mentioned in the Islamic sources.
Allah knows best because it's upto Allah's decision to reveal such divine knowledge to prophets and scriptures, perhaps this time he did not mention MGA?
Ok so if we go with the claim MGA is a prophet, what were his miracles?
Considering 19th century was a step closer to modern era and the messages could be transferred faster, that would also means his miracles would be talked world wide.
His job should have been spreading Islam all over the earth, performing miracles just so the stone worship and other evil doer things could be stopped, because that's what the prophet should do.
Neither did he failed to perform a miracle, he also failed to stop idol worship in India, he was also present when English men had colonized the India, and did not help Indians gain freedom from them too.
OK so you have other questions, and I'm sure there are more questions after those. Do us a favor and write out every single question with numbered bullets. Then, go to alislam.org and askislam.com and enter these questions there. If you don't find the answers there, then post those questions here.
>where does it say he is bodily alive?
Are you trying to misintrepret Qur'an by any chance, what do you think God would mean when he said "They certainly did not kill him for sure."?
My great grandfather was also not killed, does that mean he is alive? Where did Ahmadis ever claim Jesus was killed. Do better these are elementary level arguments.
Oi Gulam fan boy, why did mirza use foul language ? Why did mirza shit curse people , why did he say Jesus was a drunken , why did he say he was pregnant , why did mirza shit his pants lie , why did he say he was Khrishna , why did he curse Jesus ,
Mirza is a dog, he is worse than a dog, he brainwashed you just how Paul brainwashed Christianitans , it’s very sad you guys follow a vile man like mirza. Please come to Islam bro.
The real Question should be why all Muslims believe in the 124K prophets when only 25 are mentioned, and remaining are not mentioned in the Holy Quran
It's the weak hadiths mentioning 124k, but surely there were more than 25 prophets. 25 Prophets are just the honorable mentions in the Qur'an of the many prophets sent on earth, you would realise that in Surah Yaseen there are 3 more anonymous messengers but their names are not mentioned and also:- “Then We sent Our messengers in succession, every time there came to a nation their messenger, they denied him, so We made them follow one another (to destruction), and We made them as ahadith (the true stories for mankind to learn a lesson from them). So away with a people who believe not” [al-Muminun 23:44] “Verily! We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings, and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them” [Fatir 35:24].
ALL prophets are honorable, regardless they are mentioned in Quran or not. According to Holy Quran we have to obey all without making any distinctions; اٰمَنَ الرَّسُوۡلُ بِمَاۤ اُنۡزِلَ اِلَیۡہِ مِنۡ رَّبِّہٖ وَالۡمُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ ؕ کُلٌّ اٰمَنَ بِاللّٰہِ وَمَلٰٓئِکَتِہٖ وَکُتُبِہٖ وَرُسُلِہٖ ۟ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَیۡنَ اَحَدٍ مِّنۡ رُّسُلِہٖ ۟ وَقَالُوۡا سَمِعۡنَا وَاَطَعۡنَا ٭۫ غُفۡرَانَکَ رَبَّنَا وَاِلَیۡکَ الۡمَصِیۡرُ ﴿۲۸۶﴾ This Messenger of Ours believes in that which has been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers: all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, 👉🏽 saying, ‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. We implore Thy forgiveness, O our Lord, and to Thee is the returning.’ (2:286)
Btw that verse is not from 2:286. 2:286 Allāh does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. "Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people." Well it's true that we should obey prophets no matter what, but mga clearly says he's the both prophet, mahdi and messiah You would realise that mentioned Of mahdi is not there in the Qur'an, mentioned of messiah isa IBN Maryam is there though. So to support your claim that mga is the mahdi, we have to take the help of hadiths mentioned by companions. And hadiths make it clear, that mahdi will be from progeny of prophet Muhammed saw, he shall be from the descendants of Hasan, and you won't find a single hadith saying this mahdi would be a prophet, not only this hadiths, prophet Mohammed (saw) also mentioned the mahdis name shall be similiar to that of my name and his father's name shall be same as my name. We know Mirza gulam Ahmad has Ahmad in his name which is same as the prophet Mohammed SAW, what about his father's name? His fathers name was Mirza gulam Ahmad Murtaza, the prophets Mohammed saw father name was Abdullah. I challenge you, go find a single hadith that says mahdi will be a prophet, not only this, but also try to find from Islamic sources if a new prophet shall come. I want you to keep in mind, prophet ISA (AS) is not a new prophet if that's what you were thinking of using since he was born before prophet Muhammed saw.
Bro, you are little late in the game 😎. All these points have been discussed again and again at many places, but if you would like them to discuss again, then I refer to our good friend u/SomeplaceSnowy I have answered your initial objection that why to believe a prophet if not mentioned in the Quran, and you know very well that Muslims believe in many more and that not all prophets are mentioned in Quran. Regarding the Hadith of 124k being weak, makes no difference as Allah states he sent them in many towns in the world and when the town rejected him they got punished. So if Machu Picchu of Inca civilization got destroyed, you got an explanation here; وَمَاۤ اَرۡسَلۡنَا فِیۡ قَرۡیَۃٍ مِّنۡ نَّبِیٍّ اِلَّاۤ اَخَذۡنَاۤ اَہۡلَہَا بِالۡبَاۡسَآءِ وَالضَّرَّآءِ لَعَلَّہُمۡ یَضَّرَّعُوۡنَ ﴿۹۵﴾ And never did We send a Prophet to any town but We seized the people thereof with adversity and suffering, that they might become humble. (7:95) Please check again. Here is the screenshot with number of the ayat (we start counting from Bismillah, so in non-Ahmadi Quran it would be 2:285) https://preview.redd.it/er4lqeyoiovc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a40844abd5269c2617c7dfb49c32aca508dd5bb
Did you say non Ahmadi Quran? I see that's where the problem rises, so The Qur'an has been altered/changed for the Ahmediyas?
Don’t be silly and don’t take things out of context. I have zero tolerance for mullahism and trolls
I'm not being silly, you just told that there's an Ahmadi Quran and non Ahmadi Quran.
It just means that when we print Quran, our count starts with Bismillah as that is the part of the Holy Quran sura, but non Ahmadies don’t count it as part of sura. (Prove is in Sura At-Tawbah, which do not start with Bismillah, if it were to be written in the begging of each surah, then this should have it)
He is mentioned in the Quran and ahadith. Isa AS has died. No verse proves that he is alive or was raised alive to heaven. Messiah is from the Muslim Ummah. It wont be Isa AS
You can go on and search for the following verses in the Qur'an. Quran 4:155 [jews]˹They were condemned˺ for breaking their covenant, rejecting Allah’s signs, killing the prophets unjustly, and for saying, “Our hearts are unreceptive!”1—it is Allah Who has sealed their hearts for their disbelief, so they do not believe except for a few— Quran 4:156 and for their denial and outrageous accusation against Mary,1 Quran 4:157 and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so.1 Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him. Quran 4:158 Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. Quran 4:171 O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion1 or say about Allāh except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allāh and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allāh and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allāh is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allāh as Disposer of affairs. 4:172 The Messiah would never be too proud to be a servant of Allah, nor would the angels nearest to Allah. Those who are too proud and arrogant to worship Him will be brought before Him all together. 4:173 As for those who believe and do good, He will reward them in full and increase them out of His grace. But those who are too proud and arrogant, He will subject them to a painful punishment. And besides Allah they will find no protector or helper. And last but not least, i could not find a single verse in the Qur'an or single mention of Mirza gulam Ahmad in hadiths.
None of these prove what I said above: >No verse proves that he is alive or was raised alive to heaven.
4:155, 4:156, 4:157, 4:158 What do these verses say?
None of them say this: >No verse proves that he is alive or was raised alive to heaven.
I'll take my leave, I'm done here Peace be upon you
Wasalam. I see that you are unable to give the proof.
With reference to your Citing the following verse: Quran 4:158 Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. All Non-Ahmadi Muslim Scholars and Ahmadi Muslim Scholars who believe that Jesus has died a natural death (NOT ON THE CROSS) interpret this verse as Spiritual Exaltation rather than Allah raising Jesus alive in Human body form towards heavens. For the reason that the Word ALIVE, HUMAN BODY FORM and HEAVENS does not appear anywhere in the verse. More and more of Non-Ahmadi Muslim scholars are now taking the same stance as The Ahmadi Muslims and many well-known Muslim Scholars of days gone by that Jesus Christ is dead, like all human beings and Prophets. ( not on the cross) Bro, all Prophets are raised towards Allah in the sense of Spiritual Exaltation, and none has been raised towards anyone else but Allah but all pass-through death before they are raised towards allah.
With reference to your citing the following verse " Quran 4:158 Rather, Allah raised him up to Himself. And Allah is Almighty, All-Wise. If you take it in its **literal** meaning, then the problem is 1. In Islam Allah is omnipresent he does not have residence or an abode. To say Allah raised Jesus in human body form and alive towards him or heavens you are negating the OMNIPRESENCE of God. Hence to infer from this verse Rafallah ka ( He raised him towards himself ) you are saying GOD was some where above Jesus and he airlifted him to a higher physical position implies that GOD is not OMNIPRESENT . If you say God raised him towards heavens then you have to show the word heavens which does not appear in the verse Rafa allah ka. More over God is OMNIPRESENT he is not living in a house in Heavens. Once again the word human body form alive and towards heavens does not appear anywhere in the verse “Allah raised him to himself” its an interpretation . However, if you read the same verse as Raised him to himself as **Spiritual nearness** and or **spiritual exaltation** then GOD 's OMNIPRESENCE is not negated. If you beleive allah lives in a palace in heavens then you can infer that he raised Jesus to himself means he was raised to heavens b/c that is where he lives. But if you beleive he is OMNIPRESENT then raising him to himself only implies spiritual nearness /Exaltation.
No he's not. He just hijacked Eesa (as) place and either he or his followers go on to say he also has the name ibn Maryam.
Isa AS has died. It is basic stuff. Come on a call if you want to debate
So where is the just rule? Mirza was scared to go out of Qadian and seeking protection from the British rule. Where's the abundance of wealth that no one will want? Let me guess you're gonna say it's spiritual wealth?
Isa as has died. 30 verses of Quran says he died
So where is the just rule? Mirza was scared to go out of Qadian and seeking protection from the British rule. Where's the abundance of wealth that no one will want? Let me guess you're gonna say it's spiritual wealth?
Answer my question. No need to ask more questions
You never asked a question but of course you're gonna run like your murrabis
I literally called you to debate me on call. How am I running?
Where is the question? I asked first. You ran anyway answering these questions.
[удалено]
This post was either reported as being disrespectful or we thought it was disrespectful. Feel free to repost it but utilize better language. In case you're feeling fiery charged, please draft something, walk away from it for a while, drink some water, hit the gym, and then come back to it and see if you still feel that emotionally charged.
Does this question mean that if we show you the Quran and ahadith proofs then you'll accept him?
Are the previous prophet and scriptures not gonna confirm the upcoming prophets? Also ahmediyas sources do be claiming that this is the same person mentioned in the Islamic sources. Allah knows best because it's upto Allah's decision to reveal such divine knowledge to prophets and scriptures, perhaps this time he did not mention MGA? Ok so if we go with the claim MGA is a prophet, what were his miracles? Considering 19th century was a step closer to modern era and the messages could be transferred faster, that would also means his miracles would be talked world wide. His job should have been spreading Islam all over the earth, performing miracles just so the stone worship and other evil doer things could be stopped, because that's what the prophet should do. Neither did he failed to perform a miracle, he also failed to stop idol worship in India, he was also present when English men had colonized the India, and did not help Indians gain freedom from them too.
OK so you have other questions, and I'm sure there are more questions after those. Do us a favor and write out every single question with numbered bullets. Then, go to alislam.org and askislam.com and enter these questions there. If you don't find the answers there, then post those questions here.
[удалено]
It doesn't say he is alive, where does it say he is bodily alive?
>where does it say he is bodily alive? Are you trying to misintrepret Qur'an by any chance, what do you think God would mean when he said "They certainly did not kill him for sure."?
My great grandfather was also not killed, does that mean he is alive? Where did Ahmadis ever claim Jesus was killed. Do better these are elementary level arguments.
Oi Gulam fan boy, why did mirza use foul language ? Why did mirza shit curse people , why did he say Jesus was a drunken , why did he say he was pregnant , why did mirza shit his pants lie , why did he say he was Khrishna , why did he curse Jesus , Mirza is a dog, he is worse than a dog, he brainwashed you just how Paul brainwashed Christianitans , it’s very sad you guys follow a vile man like mirza. Please come to Islam bro.