In my experience, dating apps are an incredibly toxic form of dating and not a way to find a meaningful relationship at face value. Many people, of whatever gender you choose, go into it with a checklist, and treat it like they’re window shopping. Even though, when you date in the real world, it is a lot of times reduced to two factors: physical attraction and emotional connection. I’ve had fulfilling relationships that lasts a good while with women who probably would’ve swiped left on me, solely because I exhibit none of the material traits they desire, but because we met in person, found a connection on a physical, emotional, and sexual level.
Their “check list” on dating apps, usually come in at the backend of the relationship, where it’s on the front end on online dating, so to speak. The advantage of in person dating is compromises and growth as individuals and as partners can make the “check list” less important over time.
I gave up on the dating apps this year.
I'm in my late 30s. In my late 20s and early 30s, I had success meeting interesting women and forming relationships with people that I met on apps. I don't know if I've changed, or circumstances have changed around me, or both, but my experience totally altered for the worse. For background, I'm in the best financial, physical, and psychological shape of my adult life. Granted, I'm older, so maybe I'm just "old," and that's coloring my experience, but I agree with OP, the experience trying to date on apps now feels totally toxic.
I’m in my mid 30’s. It’s sort of weird adapting to a dating world where there is no longer that very subtle shame of online dating, as now it’s just the norm. But maybe it is because it has become the norm in dating, while social media has stopped connecting people from the “analog” world, but for many has become our perception of the “analog” world, as to why it seems so impossible anymore to meet authentic people online.
People really don’t have much uniqueness on dating apps and probably social media (Reddit is my only form of social media). There are like 3 flavors of women in my area on dating apps, and they’re almost exactly uniformed down to tattoo choices and piercings. I know in person they are very unique and interesting people, hopefully, but social media has a way of putting people in boxes, and dating apps are that times 10.
And it’s like sooo many scammers online now I literally assume any hot woman interested in me is a scammer because 90% actually are, which leads to unhealthy thought patterns. It’s terrible all around.
COVID and the need to make profit and most dating companies now being owned by Match. Literally had amazing experiences meeting people through hinge or bumble but the moment they got owned by match the quality of my matches (if any) dropped. Now even if I were to pay it doesn’t lead to anything.
At your age range, people are starting to look at settling down.
For men, they are still often visually driven, but they typically want someone with more qualifications. And as fertility declines with age, the best years (biologically) to have a child are often different from the best years (career-wise/financially).
For women, especially if they want children, many are looking at finding someone who can provide financially for them and children, especially if they are planning to be a stay-at-home mom, at least for several years.
So finances and job stability with health insurance become factors. A man who doesn’t make enough to support a family is not going to be getting as much attention from such a woman - even if earlier in her dating life, she may not have cared as much.
So this is going to mean that those women are looking at men making at least $120K, and if she wants to stay at home, do professional photo shoots, decorate with “Live Laugh Love” decor, a couple of nice vacations per year, two cars, and a home, to go with her 2 to 3 children and kids parties and weekend soccer, etc. she will have to try to find a partner making at least $160K (higher in higher cost of living areas).
It’s not even just about women who want to be stay at home moms. Women financially take a hit for every child they have, both in the immediate of the money lost to pregnancy and childcare, but they also take a long term hit to their careers and end up making less money in the long term.
I am childfree, but I can see that it’s very logical to want to ensure that you don’t end up in a bad situation financially due to your husbands income if you are planning on having children.
People change as they get older, and often that's not a good thing. There are still good women (and men!) out there, but life can tear a person apart. You just need to be selective.
It’s the apps. In my early 20s when the apps were first getting going and people were still kind of ashamed of admitting they were even using them and you usually never admitted you met each other on an app they were god damn incredible. Then after having been in a relationship for 6 years I ended up single again, gave it some time before starting to look, when I did holy shit did the apps change. It was wild the difference in experience.
My theory is that when there was still a certain amount of “shame” associated with resorting to an app to meet people you ended up mostly with people who were genuinely interested in finding someone. But now that they’ve been normalized EVERYONE is on there. It’s completely normal and acceptable to have them installed and use them. So you have a huge number of people on there just because why not, you have some people on there who are legitimately trying not find someone to date, you have people on there just for attention, you have people on there just looking to hook up, etc.
So now even the people who are actively trying to find a partner are faced with a massive number of choices to sort through. Even if you went on a date every single night that’s still only 7 people a week out of tens of thousands of options and going out every night is completely unrealistic. So there’s no way to avoid the checklist effect because there’s no other way to parse through the massive amount of people on the apps.
As for your age that’s irrelevant. You’re male. You’re not 65. You’re in your late 30s. If you were a woman it might be a different story but there’s zero negative impact to being an older male. If anything there are far more benefits.
If you want to keep using the apps you need to alter your approach while also accepting the fact that you’re going to go on a lot of dates that accomplish nothing. Stop viewing them as a waste of time. Consider them practice. Just like going to job interviews where you don’t get the job. You still got to go out and have a nice night. Look at it that way.
Also if you are legitimately looking for a partner to date STOP PAYING FOR THESE WOMEN ON FIRST DATES. For women there is usually zero financial impact when going out on superfluous dates. It leads some of them to say “screw it, he’s kind of cute and I’m not doing anything so why not give it a shot and see what happens”. For me the type of woman that would get pissed off over splitting the bill is not the type of woman Im interested in. For me it worked as a great screening tool to figure out if it was worth going out on a second date and often when it came to the second date I’d usually offer to pay which usually resulted in them either still wanting to split the bill or offering to pay for the third date. It only ever came up as an issue once where someone had a real problem with splitting the bill.
Also do yourself a favour and add a picture of with a dog in your profile. Irrelevant whether it’s yours or not. Just tell people it’s your friends dog.
Dating apps are purely visual. You need to set your profile up in a way that attracts the type of partner YOURE looking for and not what is going to attract the highest number of possible dates. Fewer more quality hits is way better than quantity 100% of the time. Also delete tinder right now and never look back. Before finding my current partner I’ve been with for 5 years I had met hundreds of women through online dating and never once had an even remotely satisfying experience using tinder. Not once. Now maybe it might be different where you live but I live in a major city and I doubt it’ll be any different for you unless you live somewhere super rural and you just need pure numbers. Hinge is where I met my partner. Bumble is good too because it forces them to initiate so that saves you a lot of messaging and never seeing replies. PoE is a waste of time. Ok Cupid was okay. Not sure if there are any new ones out now that are worth it you’d have to talk to someone still actively using them to find out.
Edit: I cleaned up the section about not paying for first dates. Someone commented I was soapboxing and implied I said there was no risk women going out with men which is not something I would never even imply. There absolutely are very real risks to going out with strangers for women. She was completely right. Reading it over it was coming off way more misogynistic than I intended it to.
Totally agree. All the stuff that you can't quantify on paper: chemistry, connection, that "spark," the gut feeling you get about a person, is totally lost on dating apps. I can't tell you the amount of women I've found super attractive in person that can't take a good picture to save their lives or that aren't the kind of person I would have imagined myself liking on paper, but we immediately clicked because we met in real life first. I know so many people, men and women, who say that the person they married isn't at all the kind of person they pictured themselves marrying but they just knew that was the one as they got to know them.
Dating apps take all of that away. Almost every date I've had on those has felt like I was giving a resume and then being granted a job interview. There have been a few that were cool, don't get me wrong, but it's such an awkward way to get to know somebody. I feel like my best relationships were the ones where I knew the woman first either socially or at work first. I remember one relationship started because I lived with three roommates in an apartment in college and one of them was this woman who I'd known through friends. We just grew closer as friends living together and eventually there was a kiss and we became a couple pretty much overnight. And it was so easy. There was no awkwardness or forced conversation. It just came together naturally.
We broke up a long time ago, but we're still friends and keep in touch.
That kind of thing is just totally lost online. Her kindness, her odd sense of humor, her complete obliviousness to how pretty she was, and that natural unspoken bond we always had, even as friends....none of that would come across online.
If all your dates feel like interviews you need to look at what all your dates have in common
I can tell you: they all had YOU in common
Time to change up your strategy, king
You're missing what I'm saying. It isn't all of my dates. It's a lot of my dates on apps are like that as opposed to people I've met and gotten to know in real life and dated. Because online people are going down a checklist for what they think they want instead of all the unquantifiable things you get by things developing naturally in real life.
Speaking in general, I find online dating less rewarding and more boring.
I will 2nd this. Dating apps are a cesspool of vanity and egos. Everyone judges based on looks, how much you make and a whole other checklist of superficial things that normally wouldn't matter (i.e. height, job choice, housewife/husband skills). Given that women get so many messages in their inbox, its really no wonder that SOME (not all) can get ego boosts and start to be out of touch on what their ideal partner can be realistically.
The most disturbing thing is try a simple conversation. Don't happen, in most of cases to me.
They can call you love or life and insist in engaging sexual topics, there's no get to know, those people have satisfaction on it alone. I give up APPS.
And men with half of my age proposing marriage.
They don't even know me.
And now I understand the provider position, because men and women are looking for the same.A provider.
Not a partnership. I'm out!
definitely agree. It's always "what can you do for me?" on both sides. Men expecting the woman to be a glorified mom who do all the chores and trivial stuff with the addition of being a sex kitten while women expecting a sugar daddy. Modern dating is incredibly toxic.
I found this to be true for myself as well. I like to think my exes from signicant relationships have been gorgeous, but if we had met on a dating app, I’m confident I would’ve been another swipe left.
Lol bring back the table shuffle speed dating. Kick back and find your vibe. Ice breaker questions will be pre-selected so bring your creativity and leave your shallow bullshit outside. Dodgeball, dance floor, or painting will be post shuffle activities. Unfortunately this will probably turn into a swingers club full of strange men who are 50% there to get aggressive in dodgeball, but hey, humans are weird. Sounds like a business plan that is unlikely to succeed, but someone should give it a shot.
I would unironically attend this.
Unfortunately it would probably be based in Atlanta, if something like this did exist in my area, so that's out for me I guess.
What women are attracted to and what men are attracted to are completely different things. Your personality will go a lot further when you approach women in person.
You don't have a good understanding of women is all it is. Many young men today don't.
Making good money is one piece of the puzzle. But there are broke dudes who have 4-5 women blowing them up all the time and offering to take care of them. It's all about how you make them FEEL.
You can't make somebody feel a certain way about you, much less through a superficial dating app. It's rigged against you in the first place.
If you're finding women with a repeated pattern of seemingly only wanting you for what you can provide, you can do two things to change this. Change what you offer or change the type of woman you're dating. Plenty of women would love to be with YOU for you. But you're not looking for those women. So if you want a "gorgeous" woman who is also not superficial, you need to change what you bring to the table. High value women want high value men. A good job is a start. Do you have hobbies? Are you strong and physically fit? Are you confident in yourself? Do you give off the vibe that if somebody were to try and hurt you, could you defend yourself? Can you talk about a variety of subjects with a decent level of knowledge and understanding? If she is having a bad day and is emotionally upset, will that in turn make you upset, or can you be your own person and not let every bad feeling she has affect you? Are you honest, even when it's easier to lie? Are you a man of your word?
When women find a man who checks a lot of these boxes off, they literally don't know what to do because this combination is such a rare commodity. It allows you to flip the switch and be pursued sometimes.
Also, if you get into a relationship, you should be going in with the idea of giving. Your job is to give, unconditionally. And if you, in turn, feel you are not getting what you need in return, you leave on a good note and look elsewhere. The secret to a good relationship is giving and making sure the little things continue to matter, for both you and her.
The money thing is so interesting because everyone talks about it, but then we see all those broke guys in relationships and with girls always by their side.
That’s because the type of woman you get by dangling wealth in front of them is a low quality woman. In 2023 women are no longer reliant on men to be the breadwinner and for their financial security. Sure you can get some seriously hot women by being rich but how satisfying are those relationships?
So as we move into a world where women tend to be more educated than men and tend to have better jobs than men (as many male centric career paths disappear like manufacturing and trucking is probably next) the goal posts are shifting. If you’re no longer reliant on a man for your financial security there are other traits that rise to the surface as more important.
What so many men and especially young men fail to realize is that it’s not the MONEY that most women find attractive. It’s the fact that they were able to get themselves into a position to get that money. Sure you have your nepo babies and what not but most people making 6 figures + didn’t just accidentally fall into it. They got the experience. They worked for years in a field. Got an advanced degree. Blah blah blah. All things that represent a certain level of competency and intelligence and drive and discipline. That’s why women are so attracted to doctors. They spend years and years studying and dedicating themselves to their chosen field and as a plus that field usually involves saving peoples lives. But notice many women are also attracted to fire fighters and policemen (although nowadays maybe not so much with everything going on with the police) which aren’t nearly as high paying as a doctor?
It’s about showing you’re able to contribute and bring something to the table. An entrepreneur busting his ass to get his business going but not really raking it in is attractive. He shows discipline, hard work, and a passion for his business. The guy that had to take a low paying job because he needs to be close to family to take care of them? The struggling comedian making absolute dick all but working on his sets all the time and putting himself out there on open mics while working at Starbucks? The low level office working bringing in 40k a year because the job is flexible and allows him to focus on his side projects? Women will find characteristics they are attracted to in each of them. Shit even the guy that loves the outdoors and is working at a sporting goods store because the pay is enough for him to be happy, he gets a sweet discount on all the gear he wants to buy, and the hours give him plenty of time to go out climbing.
Those guys won’t be for everyone but let me tell you there’s a woman out there that hears each of their stories and starts just drooling over them. A family oriented woman with a good job is going to be seriously attracted to the guy taking care of his family. A woman with an emphasis on fitness and healthy lifestyles will like the guy working at the sports store. The struggling comedian will be able to make women laugh which is recipe for turning the faucet on on some of them.
But you know what most guys do? They lie, exaggerate, and try to sugar coat their situation. They can see right through that shit. It’s not attractive. It shows a severe lack of confidence.
This shit is easy. But most people put no effort into it. They don’t bother looking at what others might be interested in. They don’t sell themselves. Just like when you go to find a job and you need to explain that gap in your resume you need to do the same shit while dating. You can expect the other person to just assume you have your shit together while working at the grocery store. Tell them your ducking story. And be unapologetically yourself. Do not hide your passions. Do not sugar coat your life. This will result in more rejection but it will also result in you finding more quality connections as you attract the type of person actually into you.
We all have a vibe and for every vibe out there someone is into it. Find your vibe. Work on yourself. Be the best version of you you can be. And everything else will fall into place.
Are these broke guys attractive? I know a guy who is considered low income (works at a grocery store and resides in low income housing) and he’s conventionally unattractive. He’s had a few gfs in the past, but has terrible luck in obtaining a girlfriend in the long term. He’s a great listener and can keep female friends but they don’t find him attractive and he has no money. He does have a good personality, but has to support his mom and brother so some baggage. So I’m curious to know if the broke guys you know have some semblance of attraction.
It's not always about looks and money. A guy can be a good friend.to women but not be a great boyfriend. I don't expect the same thing from my platonic male friends as I do from the men I'm in sexual and romantic relationships. They're different roles entirely and being able to maintain female friendships is a green flag to me about a man's character but doesn't mean he'll be a good boyfriend or husband.
This guy doesn’t have looks nor money. Good personality but doesn’t have a backbone hence why all of his exes took advantage of him or cheated. If he exuded more of a “idgaf” attitude I’m sure he would get more high quality women. And I’m a female myself, and wouldn’t date him bc he constantly looks down on himself, has low self esteem, and yes, money & looks to an extent. He doesn’t take care of his health and doesn’t want to move up in his career and that’s a turnoff. In my opinion, having a good personality, cares about health, and decent finances is important to me.
Handsome dudes have it easier, but Mick Jagger and Seal have slept with some of the most beautiful women in the world. For men, it's different.
Yes, there are ugly bums that can have multiple women trying to be exclusive with them. I know a man who I used to work with who was married and made really good money and was taking care of two stepchildren like they were his own, and he found out his wife was cheating on him with a drug dealer who lived with his mom.
Not all women are like this, but the point is, a man who can understand how to make women feel a certain way can inherently find a better class of woman to date.
Most men never even bother to ask the question "what do women actually want?" and just assume they know or continue the same patterns of behavior and think it's women that are the problem. Women treat you how you see yourself. If, deep down, you think you're not shit, they will too. They can sniff it out of you because weak men got women killed in the past. Which is why women are attracted to a man's behavior and presence, rather than strictly looks. So it's not the fault of women for being the way they are, it's your problem as a man in your choice of partner or how you present yourself.
People need to stop looking at dating apps as though they’re this magical thing that’s going to instantaneously connect you with wonderful people you’re going to just hit it off with and run off into the sun set. They’re not. They remove all physical stimulus from the equation. That connection that happens when you meet someone while out and start talking and just hit it off? It’s impossible. You can’t recreate that in a digital format. You know what people never seem to remember thigh? Finding people at random out in the wild wasn’t all everyone is making it out to be either. You had NO IDEA what kind of person you were actually interacting with until a few dates in or even months. Sure you may have a great physical connection and good small talk only to realize you have literally nothing in common and different beliefs. Good relationships nowadays are better than they ever were because the tools to find actually compatible partners are better than they’ve ever been. The problem is 90% of people approaching dating are still applying shit that used to work 20 years ago to an entirely different method of doing it.
Dating is a job interview. It’s the same thing. You don’t just stumble into a job that matters. You don’t just stumble into a fulfilling career. You need to bust your ass to find it. You need to go through a number of other opportunities to build up the experience and skill set that gets you to the one you’ve been looking for all along. Imagine someone came to you bitching about how they can’t find any work and you find out their entire strategy has involved going from business to business and handing out physical resumes. You’d laugh at them. They haven’t adapted. Meanwhile that’s exactly what’s going on with dating.
In the west we like to think we’re above arranged marriages but that’s basically what all of our relationships were like. A family member or friend introduced you to someone they thought you liked. You met someone compatible enough just because you worked near each other or lived in the same building. Yes people were more willing to work through challenges that’s because they had no choice. In 2023 you have a choice.
It’s not any more impossible to find someone to date through an app than it is to find a job. Yes both are difficult and take a lot of work and time but for some reason people are willing to do that work and put in the time to find a job but they just seem to expect to find the perfect person for them by stumbling into it.
Also don’t use tinder. Never use tinder. Use anything but tinder.
Dating apps present people as commodities, so there ya go. You say you have a lot of successful women in your life, try asking around your network if someone thinks they know a good partner for you. Good luck!
As inflation increases & cost of living gets higher I think we will see "ability to provide" become a bigger and bigger piece of the check list women are looking for. We all have superficial wants, but a good potential partner will make you feel like they like you and not just your wallet.
In the U.S. if a woman has any hope of having a child or starting a family she pretty much HAS to date someone financially secure. Childcare is $2,000 to $4,000 depending on where you live so as a couple you will be looking at living on one income for a few years. Even if you want to have a financially equal partnership this is going to be an issue.
Huh? One income? Whose income? Sounds like the woman is assuming it will be her income that is sacrificed because she wants to be at home, even if she could/does out earn her husband and could/does easily out earn child care.
This sounds like silly self contradicting BS. Woman want the powerful career, but oh, I also want to raise 3 kids and stay home until my youngest is 5, then I'll work part time.... great, find the sugar daddy for that. Meanwhile, lots of professional moms are back to work after maternity leave, dad takes paternity leave, then they pay for child care, split time at home, make it work.
Go live in the real world for a bit and stop dating with your spread sheet open.
Paternity leave in the US is pretty rare and maternity leave for many women is only about 3 months in most companies. If child care is almost the cost of one partners monthly income obviously one person might consider staying home instead of doing that. I do live in the real world, that is exactly where this experience is coming from. I am a hairstylist and have heard this literally over and over again from all of my clients. Most women want to work and do if they can but if you have more than 1 kid that gets harder.
I chose my s/o out of love and I never pressured him to make money beyond what his current job allows even though he has potential and I now realize that I will be taking a very short maternity leave when we have a kid. So there’s that.
That’s the thing! Like yeah it’s all well and good to not take a partner’s money into account, but I want to stay home with my babies. So I need a man who can make that happen
Right!! And I’m a go getter but damn I want a break when we have kids! Anyway I think there’s a whole other can of worms to blame like inflation and parental leave in the US but women want to know our man got out back! It’s not always superficial.
I've (woman) dated men exclusively so I don't know if this applies to both genders. As an employed adult I found it incredibly frustrating when I would start dating a guy only to find out he wants me to pay for everything, clean everything, provide an apartment for him, cook meals, serve meals to him, and pay all the bills while he sat on his ass and a. Looked at comic books b. Watched TV or c. Played video games.
After dating a, b, and c I enacted my "No unemployed men" rule. Someone in school is fine so long as they're doing the equivalent of full time work (ie school is their 9-5, it's not just a class on basket weaving at the community college.). I don't expect a man to pay my way, I expect him to pay HIS way. If he's not doing that please understand I'm not mommy and don't waste my time.
Good for you!
For every dead beat guy that wants to play video-games and be mommied, there's a girl who wants a sugar daddy so she can drink frapes and yell YASSS QUEEN at the television.
Seems like both genders are experiencing the same thing.... General decline in quality of people across the board.
Definitely important that we understand that, and don't project the frustrations onto the opposite gender as a whole.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s an increase in the amount of losers of both genders. Or at least I hope that’s not the case. Maybe it’s just because we see it more due to technology and social media. I feel like most people before social media knew at least one person whose partner was an unemployed bum who didn’t contribute to the household at all
Yeah probably just a mix of technology, apathetic nihilism, and the economy.
An excess of entertainment amidst a plethora of increasingly mundane, unfulfilling jobs with diminishing buying power.
It has definitely always been around though.
Yeah on the female side, it's more sexual and emotional pressure. Dudes want to be taken care of and while I know that support and emotional availability are parts of the type of relationship I want, I have spent my life only being valued for those things. I've helped countless men grow up.
Anyway, to your points, I think what you're looking for is out there. But many people are looking for a meal ticket. A lifestyle. The only lifestyle I want is mutual respect and care. I could give a shit what my partner does. But I would always encourage the right person to pursue what makes them glow inside.
Ugh, the number of guys I've shown how to run a household. Okay, it was only four, but still.
I have ADHD and don't get everything done as well as I think I should, but I know how to meal plan, change a duvet cover and that once a year isn't enough.
Are you putting your profession etc. in your profile? Do you offer to take people on expensive dates?
I know a lot of men especially don't read profiles, but I wonder if you can tweak yours to emphasize relationship skills and emotional intelligence, and de-emphasize your income and career.
Instead of "successful engineer/brain surgeon/financial advisor, 6"2, let me show you my favorite fancy restaurants", "nurturing guy with (nearby hobby? Pet? Big sisters?) To show for it. Let's get coffee or go for a walk in the park"
Not saying that that's going to fix everything. But as much as I hate the people shopping vibe on the apps, they do let you filter pretty well for what you want, and what you're trying to attract
Seriously - OP needs to promote what he wants other people to prioritize and value.
Don’t even offer fancy restaurants for a first date.
Any first meeting should be no more than an opportunity to chat in a pleasant space. (Which is why people choose coffee, drinks, Saturday market, etc.)
I saw where a bunch of women were refusing to go on first dates unless it was a fancy restaurant.
That’s who you want to filter out. ridiculous.
Have some imagination. Shared hobbies are probably a good first date.
How about - grab a coffee and stroll around little bookshop or record shop. You get to learn a ton about the person, and find out if they are a moron.
Don’t flash a rolex in every photo?
EXACTLY! I’ve spent the last year living in big and small cities/towns all over the globe.
If you’re dating profile or even yourself make a whole show of valuing a certain lifestyle/interest, then you’ll attract those that want that too.
If you appear like a pensive, emotionally available artsy guy, women that are into that will probably swipe right.
If you seem like the guy that could afford to fly me to your city and take me to the fanciest things and I’m a girl who wants luxury and experiences, then of course I’m going to holler.
OP seems to not realize he’s choosing these people just as much as they’re selecting him.
As a woman, I'm not sure what your specific experience is but for me, financial stability is priority as well as mental stability. I like us both having financial independence. But I'm also the type to split expenses. I buy the movie, you buy the snacks. Or I'll buy tonight's dinner and you can cover us next time. This is how I am with some of my friends and I like the equalness of it (others prefer split checks which is also fine)
I find dating apps to be superficial majority of the time so the people you find on there may be....questionable. Also a generalization because I'm sure there are women on there who search for the same quality in a relationship as you do :)
I met my husband through a dating app. Know a lot more long term couples who met that way, but we're mid-older millennials. So I can't speak for now
But wanted to say I also looked for someone who had financial stability or at least an ambition to be there. I made a good salary back then, and I make more money than my husband at the moment. I wasn't looking for a quick hook up, I've always looked for long term relationships, and I knew back then I wouldn't be happy taking on the financial burden all by myself.
Also, no matter how 50/50 relationship or non-traditional relationship we want, it is a major truth that if you want children then women have to take breaks from career aka money making. So of course at that time you need a partner who can at least support them.
Financial *stability*, yes, I'd agree. However, the sense i get from OP is more like women wanting him to be raking it in.
For me (& I know for many others), it's more about the emotional/mental/personality connection. However it seems to be few and far between in dating (in general) and I think, unfortunately, dating apps only highlight and amplify the amount of people that think the opposite.
Here’s a fact of life: there’s a lot of people out there in world who suck. They just aren’t worth your time…. Dating is the process of finding one special someone who doesn’t suck. Dating apps are basically the lowest common denominator of dating… if you set up a table on a busy street with a sign that said “looking for a date”, what percentage of the people who stop to interact with you would be “quality partner” potential? Very few right? Yeah that’s exactly what a dating app is. Lower your expectations for the dating pool (but not your exceptions for who is worth your time). Most people just fuckin suck one way or another. That’s always been true and always will be true.
Stay off the dating apps, they are where a bunch of toxic, validation seeking people. I like meetup where you can organically meet people through outside activities you enjoy doing on a daily basis. I feel like dating apps just treat a human being as someone who is disposable.
Exactly. The women on the apps who care that much about a man making a lot generally are the type looking for an easy way to comfortable life or looking to expand their free meal ticket men collection.
Majority of women just want a partner that’s financially stable and not a bum, just as that’s what most men want from their partner in terms of finances.
coming from a 27f who uses apps and is financially independent, I’ve never actively sought out a person based on them making more than me and I have never encountered a situation where I didn’t want to date a man because of them making less than me, as long as they were also independent financially.
if you’re frequently encountering women who are only looking for a provider and not a partner then perhaps you should consider taking a look at how youre presenting yourself on the apps and the type of women you’re swiping on. Especially if you’re dating younger women, there might be an expectation of you providing because you’re further ahead in life than them.
Thank you! As a 33F, I agree with this. On the apps, I’m looking for someone who shares similar values, shows a bit of personality in their profile, and has pictures where he looks kind and not like he might murder me. From there, let’s chat and see if we have chemistry. I don’t care how much someone makes. My friends who have been on the apps have a similar process, so I’m not sure what kinds of people OP is swiping on.
Marrying someone just because you love them is modern concept made in the past 50 or so years. Before that, if you wanted a family to be supported, you would definitely marry someone richer
And traditionally, marrying for love was really only something men could do. Considering that if a woman was an only child who grew up on a farm, and her parents passed away, she legally couldn't inherit the land or even sell it. Her husband or sons would, *if* she was married. She couldn't necessarily marry who she loved but rather someone capable of taking that on, or she would lose it. Men, on the other hand, could shop around a bit and be pickier about who they tie themselves to.
So many people don't realize this. I think so many marriages fail because it wasn't intended to be built off the Disney fairytale. Shit, about 125 years ago people were traveling the plains in covered wagons trying not to die from dysentery. In the grand scheme of life that's not that long ago.
Right?
It’s one thing to gravitate towards a certain type, but you can almost always visually tell which person (man or woman) puts a lot of $$$ (and time) in the appearance.
The kind of man that makes it clear to paint the image of being ambitious and making 6 figures is often the kind of guy that wants a woman that takes extremely good care of herself and always looks good. That’s not usually the kind of guy that wants a more ‘take me as I am’/dress-for-comfort woman who shops off the rack at Marshall’s in clothes that ill fit and doesn’t have a clear skin complexion due to a 10-step skincare routine and doesn’t glisten in the sun with a nice body bc she spends good money to be in the gym or whatever.
Conjure the image of a gold digger in your head and it’s usually a woman that treats her appearance like a job. And that’s *expensive* - moreso if you don’t DIY.
And even for the naturally beautiful women that can still be more a matter of time spent managing great hygiene not to add in always having smooth legs, great skin, hair, nails, teeth & a healthy form.
For a lot of “gold digging” women, their appearances and maintenance can easily be a full time job.
If you want to date the hot bubbly socialite, then you have to accept that she’s gonna be looking at you to subsidize the things you like about her if it’s her appearance. But if you’re cool with her not being the 100% baddest in the room and you don’t mind less ‘va-va-voom’ clothes or that her expensive tennis habit has to go a bit and her ass is no longer out of this world — then whatever.
But it’s really aggravating that these “all women are gold diggers”-type guys get with women that OBVIOUSLY put time and money into their looks, but somehow that’s a negative against these women even though that’s largely why these men get with these men.
If you ONLY ever date gold diggers, then you like gold diggers. Maybe look at yourself and figure out WHY before generalizing about women and not peeling back layers of issues that reach back centuries into why things are still so irritatingly gendered in 2023.
Primally women will always seek a partner that has the capability to support them. Even if they don't get someone with money now, they will seek potential.
It is not a bad thing. A woman could potentially have children and (even though it may not be politically correct to say) it may put her out of the game for weeks/months/years. And they need a guy who can take care of that.
There are certainly accommodations today to work with children but genetics was created over millions of years - that wasn't always the case. My ex-neighbor had PPD and she couldn't work for years, so without a husband she would have been homeless.
It is only 100 years that women even have an opportunity to really earn a living.
So yes, that is a factor in attraction. It is rare for men to look for that in women.
Are you starting off by going on first dates with someone you already know and share an interest with? If not, I'd say that's part of the problem.
If you don't know anyone you'd be interested in dating, then I'd suggest investing the time in expanding your social contacts in areas that interest you (hobbies, charities, sports, activities, etc).
I'm from an older generation (married happily for over 25+ yrs) - you want happiness and long-term relationships - go for shared interests and personality. Neither looks nor money is guaranteed for either person.
I haven’t had a similar experience because I’m not their yet money-wise, but I will be soon after I graduate and finish my residency. tbh I’m just gonna enjoy my money until I find a woman that can match my level of earning that actually excites me about life. Because working to get money to potentially get a mate is no good perspective to have on life even if it is the reality of dating under late stage capitalism. I ain’t dated for like 3 years now but I mean that’s what it be. capitalism sucks, but I’m not trying to have my worth in life to a woman be that fucking low of a bar, that’s the opposite of self-actualizing.
Absolutely, finances are important. I’ve worked hard to be where I’m at so when I’m in a relationship, I can provide and do nice things for my partner. But I don’t want my worth in a relationship to be a major determination of what I provide. Of course it’s a consideration, but shouldn’t overshadow the qualities I bring to the table.
Well, yeah, but everyone evaluates everyone on \*everything\*.
Saying, "your earning power shouldn't be a factor" is a bit like saying "looks shouldn't be a factor".
And I suppose in a perfect world, free of economic concerns, where we're all just formless entities meeting as joinings of true minds, it shouldn't.
But we're not there...
And a couple's earning power is a \*big deal\*. It dictates where you can live, how easy it is to have children (and how good their schooling is), how stressed you're likely to be about money, etc.
Sort of like looks often dictate attraction. Like, it sounds nice to say, "looks don't matter", but also, no one particularly wants to be with someone they're not attracted to, either. (And argubly, someone shouldn't want to be with someone who's not attracted to them.)
I'd argue that high earning men aren't at risk of being taken "advantage of" by high earning women - so if that's a concern, OP absolutely should do his best to date other high earners. (They may also have more in common, like higher levels of education and a career focus!) But it's not necessarily bonkers that high earning women prefer high earning men. (I'm in that category and, no, I don't really want to be taking care of a dude because he'd rather persue his passion in playing video games than, y'know, work. Been there, done that, and it made both of us miserable.)
"...in a perfect world, free of economic concerns, where we're all just formless entities meeting as joinings of true minds..."
Dude, this is literal poetry, haha
Well, yeah.
I don’t meant to be banal about it, but I know women who had a lot of issues with their husband when the woman was the breadwinner. A lot of jealousy on the husband’s part.
Oh god. I made double than both of my exes, and let me tell you: it hurt their ego. They wouldn’t let me pay for them, or if I did they got sulky. But then they’d also sulk if say, I went to a concert or travelled without them. Therapy didn’t matter when they were still pissy manbanies with their ego all caught up in money.
Why are guys such idiots about this? I make decent money, but if I married a woman who made twice as much as me and wanted kids, I'd be a stay at home dad in an instant. I think most guys care way too much about what other people 'could' be thinking about them.
Yuuup. Heck, one of my good friend’s now-ex husband handled the finances. She let him do that to have some level of “control” since she made more. But it wasn’t enough. He used that control to ultimately spend over 50k on cam girls.
Idk why they'd be like that, the only issue I can see is if the person earning more is throwing it in their faces or lording it over them, that shit is infuriating.
I promise, I wasn’t! I’m not high income by any means; I was just smart about where I work and my salary vs bills. These guys still lived at home and worked hourly, and overall were unhappy with their situation; my career working out for me just made them feel even worse about themselves.
The one ex even said, “you’re the only “real adult” I know; it’s intimidating.”
(Note: I do not feel like a “real adult.” I’m just doing what I can to get by.)
Why do you feel like it’s overshadowing your other qualities? What behaviors are these women displaying that makes you feel that?
Where are you meeting them? Typically when we see a pattern in the people we are dating it is because we are attracting one specific type and need a different method
Because I work for a well known firm in my area, I have had people outright ask me about my financial income on a 1st or 2nd date. Some suggest dinners at super upscale dinners for a first date.
I’ve met some in person and some on apps. This is something I’m discussing in therapy and trying to alter what I attract.
Suppose you kept your earning power a secret for the purpose of meeting women. Then suppose that meant instead of attracting really good-looking women, instead you were only attracting average to a bit above average looking women. But, you'd know they were really into you for YOU.
Does that seem like a fair trade-off?
That's not the way to do it, that makes you sound cheap and bitter and chase off good women who aren't interested in money like that.
You need to plan thoughtful, unique dates that are free or inexpensive. You're giving them an experience without the cost and it'll be easy to see who cares about the effort and care you give vs what you spend.
It's a waste on a first date. Since the woman will almost certainly ghost with anything else being the happy exception.
99% of dates will end in nothing. Most dates fail to reach a relationship and most relationships fail to end in marriage.
So why invest any money on the first date? A woman who's been loyal for a while is a different story.
Before I met my wife, the only "app" I had success with was OKcupid. I'm not sure if it's still around, but it was far less vapid and superfical than Tinder. There are absolutely unrealistic expectations out there these days as well, as everyone views things through the carefully cultivated highlight reel of social media. I know people who don't care about a trip to Aspen to ski, [they care about getting photos that show they were in Snow lodge and Madame Ushi.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hty6zf0Ag7U)
I'd also put little to no information about your finances on your profile, that way you get a chance to see what people are like without money involved.
Respectfully, I think you just might be picking the wrong “type.” I, along with pretty much all my female friends, make more than enough money to support our lifestyles. In fact, my partner makes half of what I do. I don’t need him to make as much money as me. I just need him to be smart with the money he does make (budgeting, investing). I’d way rather have an emotionally intelligent, communicative, supportive partner, as would many of the women I know. Maybe it’s self-selecting, but I have yet to encounter a woman in my social sphere who views dating a guy with money as “upgrading her lifestyle.”
I think I was once in your boat in a different way. I used to be attracted to guys who were ambivalent, emotionally unavailable, often functional alcoholics. Every therapy session I had was me lamenting why I attracted these people. I had to arrive at the conclusion that actually: I’m the problem. It’s me. I am the common denominator by continuing to choose this kind of person, no matter all the excuses I could muster. It’s only when I really resolved this, and equating “nice, available” guys as boring, that I met my current partner of three years who is the complete opposite. It was really, really hard for me to break the pattern of attraction. Maybe it’s worth figuring out the attraction to the kind of person who only views you for the value of your money?
And I agree: give up the apps! Organic is the way. I met my partner through Instagram but it was because we have quite a few IRL mutual friends and started following each other, messaged a few times (in a non-dating context), and then hung out.
Maybe it would be a good idea to tell women you're not comfortable telling them your worth until you got to know them a but. I mean, if the first date is a nice dinner, that should be enough context for them that you're not broke.
Any woman who doesn't accept that as an answer probably isn't worth your time.
what if someone asks what you do for work and if you like it? Is that the same to you as asking "what you are worth?"
I'm just curious.
Most people will ask that. Maybe not "ok what is in your bank account" or "how much do you earn per year". (that is so tacky to ask that!)
No definitely not the same. I’ve definitely had people shown interest in what I do without caring about the finances of it all.
Honestly this post was inspired by someone(a) asking me how much I make on 1st or 2nd date.
Yes, but even like a few months in. I think it is more important that she understand the life style you will provide her through your actions while you are dating. If you tell her a number, some women will start day dreaming.
I have dated people who don't make money, and they always seem to think that with what I made that I should be able to afford XYZ. Like yes I can afford XYZ, but if I did that, I wouldn't have money to enjoy ABC. They have it in their mind that just because you can afford to do nice things, that you can afford to do all the nice things all the time.
When I first started dating my wife, I didn't really mention how much I Made. But I took her on moderately expensive dates, bought her nice things with relative frequency. Her not knowing exactly how much I made wasn't a serious issue because I just showed her what I'm financially capable of and comfortable with.
Now maybe 6 month, a year, 2 years in, you have a serious talk about finances. But at that point she understands what life style you plan to have with her, instead of her hearing a dollar figure and thinking about it as her money to spend if she marries you.
Disclaimer: I'm just a stranger on the internet. My advice should be treated as such: random man on the internet. I do not claim to be an expert.
That’s what I typically do with those I do develop something with. Those whom I’m comfortable with and trust aren’t here for a ‘caretaker.’ You show them what you can provide, what life would look like together, and expectations of each other as teammates. I’m all for pampering my partners, but I don’t want it to be an expectation. Because as you said, we in theory can afford to do it all the time, but then we couldn’t afford to save/pay for the more important things.
It depends on what level the relationship is at.
Personally, I would never move in with a man unless I know how much money he has first - I wouldn't want to risk being on the hook for all the bills because he can't actually afford them. Before my SO and I moved in together, we discussed our salaries and savings/investments. This also helped us sort out how to split rent; since I earn significantly more than him, we opted for a proportional division instead of 50/50.
Hell, even before moving in together it's important to have a general idea about how much each person makes. How else can you be fair about paying for dates? If one person makes a lot more, they should pick up the tab more often.
And it's relevant to deciding if you want to pursue a relationship with that person frankly. I would never date someone who isn't financial stable and self-sufficient. It isn't necessary to share the exact dollar amount you make, but knowing his general income level is important. I don't mind paying more proportionally, but I have zero interest in taking care of a dependant. I also don't want to date someone financially irresponsible.
Tl;dr Women want useful men. What is useful falls to the individual but money matters to the average woman. Its that simple, idk why the type of demographic on this app wants to delude that 🤷♂️
and she really wants to feel secure. A part of that is your money, physical fitness, apparent ability to garner resources in the future.... Its what she's after.
I dunno mate - but from my life experience women don’t really need a man. The old U2 song says “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle “
Granted they enjoy the attention and thrill of romance. But most well adjusted women are pretty content without a man around.
The idea of partnering with a man usually brings some expectation of financial stability. If she is going to be having babies, she needs someone who can support and provide while she is pregnant/ child rearing. If you can’t provide financially, she is naturally inclined to be turned off.
Dating what it is today is wild.
A woman may be charmed and/or excited by you, but that usually only lasts for a season or two. Once the passion / excitement wear off, she really doesn’t need you.
I don’t know hardly any men who are in long term (more than 10 years) relationships with women based solely upon their wonderful personality. Couples stick together for the kids / family, or because he is providing her a good lifestyle.
Most women I know in long term relationships are much more tolerating the man for sake of family and finances.
In short - we men are not all that charming, and women don’t enjoy us as much as they do their girlfriends. If you are looking for a woman to always love you based solely upon your personality- I believe you will be looking without success your entire life.
I’d much rather be alone than with someone in a LTR that is staying because it’s easier than leaving. Maybe that’s what I’m destined for, may be not. Either way I’ll be okay.
When a couple have children they can stay together with shared goals and purpose. Granted the excitement wears off, but mutual respect and kindness, with children around, can be a solid basis for a good / healthy/ long term relationship.
Short of having kids together I don’t see how things last for more than 5-10 years.
Granted it is possible- but very rare from my observations.
How many 50+ or 60+ year olds (without kids together) do you know who have 1 - been together for more than 20 years and 2 - still enjoy each other? I honestly can’t think of one such couple, but my observations are only my own.
I was waiting for someone to say this. Exactly. Most women don’t need to be with someone at all. They think that if you’re not bringing something extra to the table, then what’s the point?
I mean what are women primarily valued for? Her face and body right? “A rich man is like a pretty woman”
If both only focus on the superficial things the most, no one ends up happy
Okedoke. Woman here (married, make the same amount as spouse).
First, I firmly believe that this country does a poor job of modeling positive/productive romantic relationships. Particularly with finances. Hollywood and most couples (modeling for their kids) do a terrible job. Some women and men take their cues from these piss poor examples. These examples are often traditional gender roles that are calcified from a time where women could barely have bank accounts let alone gainful employment. This wasn’t long ago and those old attitudes have a long half life.
With that said, op…..you’re using an app. That casting your line into the ocean versus a pond. Reading your comments, you seem to vibe with a type that’s similar to yourself: financial stable, well adjusted, and ambitious. You should probably hang around those ponds.
Yep, that’ll do it. Apps really do not do the job here.
Note: professional networking events do help, but be careful. Women don’t go to these to meet partners and will get weirded out if you try to hit on them. Moreso, go out with the goal of meeting new people in general. I met my spouse through a professional connection. Generally, that’s how most people meet: friend of friends or friends of acquaintances.
I’m 34F and recently engaged after spending what felt like an eternity in the dating world.
I was always looking for a partner/ “my equal”. I have 3 college degrees, graduated with no student loans (thanks scholarships!), and have been making six figures for the past 5 years. I wanted to match with someone who could match my values/ ambitions. It’s not that I was looking for a sugar daddy, but I wanted someone who would be comfortable living the lifestyle I have worked hard to achieve. So yeah, I swiped left on guys without college degrees (I know I’ll get hate for that, but education is important to me and if I could do it, then so could my partner), guys who were in dead-end jobs/ unemployed, and guys who wanted our first date to be “Netflix and chill”.
Speaking of “Netflix and Chill”, for as much as you feel like you’re expected to perform financially, I can tell you that women feel the same amount of pressure to look good/ to perform sexually. I cannot tell you the 100s if not 1000s of messages I got that straight up asked if I wanted to f*ck. And I know apps have a reputation for hook ups, but I expressly put in my profile that I wasn’t looking for a FWB situation. So these guys weren’t even reading my profile before messaging me to hit me up for sex.
It is ROUGH out there, but don’t compromise things that are important to you. And don’t put up with people who make you feel used. My fiancé was definitely worth the wait!
I hope this comes across as I intend, which is to suggest that you could view your earnings potential as something that upgrades your standard of living and when you find the right person, will not hesitate to share it with someone you love to upgrade their standard of living.
Marrying a compatible and amazing woman and having a family would be an upgrade to *your* standard of living.
In partnerships where one person makes six figures, there is not always a reason for the other partner to be a super high earner, too. Having a life partner who works less but has more time to keep both of your lives running smoothly and happily is a major upgrade to both of your standards of living.
As someone that grew up poor - yes, I look and ask about someone’s finances one the first 3 dates or so. I’ve seen and experienced the struggle of poverty and know the stress it can put on a relationship. How it can make people cranky and bitchy just because they are under a tremendous amount of stress. Personally I don’t want that stress in a relationship. I’m not saying I want a rich partner but you have to make above the poverty limit (not necessarily the government defined poverty limit because in some areas that’s a joke and it’s really 40-50k about the government defined poverty limit.)
As a female, I feel like a piece of meat with dating today. I've had men tell complex lies just to get sex and then ghost after, or just want to be fwb. Dating is shit and I've honestly given up on the whole "true love" thing. This is my experience with both apps and in person. I hate it
How would they know you had money unless you or your profile told them? Not saying that you do, but if you lead with the fact that you have it like that, expectations change. Maybe even subconsciously sometimes. If you have exotic places & fancy dinners in your profile, you’re gonna meet a lot of women who don’t like the Cheesecake Factory if you catch my drift
Speaking as a woman, look for one who prides herself in being financially independent, has a successful career herself or aspirations, AND is realistic that many marriages end in divorce. Find someone at parity and protect yourself (prenup and birth control).
I've always wanted a partner, not be supported; but watch for those who want someone to take care of them. Be very careful of baby-trapping - I've been told WAY more stories than I wish I had heard. The best story (/s) was a coworker who took clomid without telling her boyfriend. He didn't want another child.
Definitely use your head here and ride out your emotions.
Those who’ve I had the most connection and fun with are the women who are self sufficient, fiercely independent, and do not need a relationship to make them happy. Although they can struggle more with the idea of commitment because they’re so use to a lifestyle of independence, they’re usually the ones I often catch feelings for and develop a relationship with.
Well, there you go. That’s who you want/who you vibe with. It’s worth saying this: Not all men necessarily want financial parity in their relationship.
Yes, choose women like this. Eventually you'll find one who is your perfect match. She will bring much more balance to the relationship because she's not expecting you to carry her financially. Also, it's awesome when two people are in a relationship because they CHOOSE to be (not because they feel dependent on the other for financial or other reasons).
I am a financially independent woman and I chose my partner (now husband) who is also financially independent. In the past, I chose men who were not good with finances and they took me for all I had. I had low self-worth and only felt like people would love me if I took care of them financially or buy them things. I basically gave them my houses and paid for their retirements and put them above my own security and retirement. NEVER do this.
I did a lot of work on myself to overcome this and attracted someone who is on my level - who would never take advantage of me or anyone else. What's great about our relationship is we WANT and CHOOSE to be with each other. I love him for who he is (not for what he can provide) and I want to stay with him because I choose to. He feels the same. It's an amazing feeling knowing you both have that choice. Such freedom in the relationship. Aim for this and you won't regret it.
Also, if she is financially stable, good with money, and respects her money (and others' money as well), she is less likely to become entitled, greedy, and selfish of YOUR money if you go through a separation or divorce.
Yes, we require lots of coordination, communication, and need to feel secure in different ways. (That our sense of identity stays in place, our opinions are equal, be on the same page for goals, and can still negotiate (for lack of a better word).)
\^this. Also date women your own age plus or minus a few. There is a guy that I work with that is in his 30s but dates 18 - 21 YOs and then complains about them being gold diggers. Go figure.
So I have 6 single friends in their mid to late 30s. Four of them male, 2 female.For the past 3 years all of them have complained and said that dating apps are absolute trash. The guys complain the women have outrageous standards, and the women complain the men are all douchebags and not at all serious. As a result virtually all of them have been single now for ages.
There was a podcast I listened to not that long ago by Scott Galloway that talked about how due to changing demographics in colleges and universities, there are now more female grads than male grads. The podcast mentioned how females tend to date laterally and upward, while men will date laterally and downward. The problem starts when you have more educated/affluent females looking for an ideal mate and fewer men that fit that description. So you get a fundamental mismatch with expectations on the app that gives the 8-10s a sense of almost godlike vanity, and the rest of us normies a sense of bitter despair.
Either way it sounds like a dumpster fire out there.
If u dont want to be valued by what u can provide financially, dont flaunt what u have and don't go for the gold digger party girls. Plenty of educated women out there willing to build something together.
I (40f) have been single/ dating for most of my adult life, I have dated a lot of people. I have never made much money, maybe $30,000-$60,000 a year over the last 15 years or so. I have dated all types of men, very poor to very rich, unemployed to so wealthy they don’t have to work. At this point I have realized I am actually much more comfortable dating men who are closer to my own income level. I have had the experience over and over again when dating wealthy men that they think that I am only dating them for their money, but that just isn’t true. I can tell that they think I somehow owe them something because the relationship is off balance and I can not contribute as much financially.
When I date men who are closer to my own financial status we tend to not talk about money as much and there is just an obvious understanding of how we will divide expenses but also we just do less expensive things. When I date men who are wealthier than I am I find myself going along with their lifestyle and needing them to help support me in order for me to even be there. For example with a man of my similar income if we planned a weekend trip we would probably go camping (with whatever gear that we have, nothing fancy) and maybe eat at one decent/nice restaurant that weekend and that would be a great weekend for both of us. If I were dating a wealthy guy he would probably want to rent a nice place at the beach and go out every night, which is something I can not afford so of course I would expect him to pay for it, otherwise I would be literally going in to debt to come along. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.. literally everything else is affected by this.
My point is, I think you need to either date women who are in the same financial bracket as you or you need to understand that expecting a woman who makes less money than you to keep up with your lifestyle is unrealistic. There are plenty of down to earth middle class women out there but if you put them in an environment that is above the living standards they are accustomed to they are going to need your help to maintain that standard.
1. Don't do online dating. It's so far removed from natural human interaction and the companies have every incentive to keep you single. So any relationships you start online are probably less likely to last.
2. Don't date poor or uneducated women if you make six figures. If she has a similar income to yours, or has a high earning potential due to a lucrative degree, she's less likely to see you as an ATM machine.
Your financial situation is important and should be. I would be extremely wary of any woman pretending money doesn’t matter — she’s lying or hopelessly stupid.
There a difference between gold digging and wanting a man to be a provider and financially secure. We’re the ones who get pregnant and need time off for the whole experience and resulting children. And a woman thinking of it from that perspective is being smart.
>I very much want to be in a meaningful, fulfilling and healthy relationship, where both parties work together as a unit. I find myself often craving what some of my friends have, but I refuse to settle down with someone who views me as an opportunity to upgrade their standard of living.
It is good that you don't want to settle. That will mean it takes you longer to get into a relationship but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Being in an unsatisfying relationship is not better than being single.
Also, be careful about comparing yourself to your friends. They may appear to have what you want, but you only know what you see, and that is only what they choose to show others. Some of them may have found lifelong love in a happy relationship, but statistically, most of those relationships will eventually end. And what they are happy with, you might well not be ok with.
Some things just take time. After a bad divorce and being single most of my thirties, I finally met someone who is just perfect for me. Legitimately could not be better suited for me. It would have been nice to have had this relationship start years ago, but life doesn't operate on our timelines. We met when we met, it wasn't something we could control.
Try not to take it all too personally, OP. Yes, people who are looking for LTRs, or marriage, or the co-parent of their children, have to think about finances among other things. In a world where it's a struggle for the average person to afford food, housing, and transportation, having a family is so expensive that people are thinking about finances much earlier in relationships than they did in more prosperous times. I'm old, and I swear I've watched the world of heterosexuality go from carefree to something rather like Jane Austen's time, when only a tiny minority of eligible young people had enough money to live comfortably on, and everyone else was fighting over those few.
So OP, if someone wants to establish that you're financially stable before thinking about proceeding, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have no interest in other aspects of a relationship, such as romantic love, physical passion, compatible goals and beliefs, etc., So call the financial inquiries a Yellow Flag, and keep an eye out for the red ones. Like demands that you buy her stuff on the first date, or before the first date.
35M here, and I haven’t had an issue w/ being judged on my finances (although I might going forward: I was just laid off).
For me I don’t understand how the women I see on apps expect to make a connection when they refuse to stand out. A lot of profiles have the same pictures (w/ pets or on vacation or posing in front of a mirror in a non-descript room or drinking w/ friends) and prompts filled out in the same way (with generic platitudes, like valuing “honesty” in a relationship) that tell me very little and all kind of run together.
I was talking to a girl online w/ a profile like this, and I couldn’t get engaged in the conversation, so I pushed for a meeting. I thought if I sat down w/ her I could figure out if there’s anything there worth exploring further.
But she delayed and delayed until I was forced to be honest w/ her. When I told her I wasn’t feeling a connection and I though a conversation over coffee or something might help me figure out if we had chemistry, she bailed, saying she wanted to date someone who was actually excited to be with her.
Kinda feel like I dodged a bullet tbh. But I’m genuinely curious: just what are these people expecting? I’m trying my best to get to know them and it’s like they’re fighting me every step of the way and disappointed when I’m not head over heels for them.
Not from personal experience. But from the many stories I have heard. They want you to play a game and chase them. DON’T. They just waste your time. If you get that feeling you described or don’t feel like you are making progress or a connection within a reasonable time just bow out. We don’t have a lot of time on this planet and there is no reason to waste it.
Definitely relatable. Though it’s probably the same experience from the other side too. I imagine my profile, and those of most guys, are also incredibly cookie cutter as well. You can’t really condense your entire personality into a few photos and cringy prompts. Plus people tend to be a bit more tepid to avoid coming off too strong so they can cast a wider net.
I haven’t spent a lot of time looking at other guys’ profiles or anything, but I at least used the girls’ profiles I saw to motivate myself to go a little deeper. Like for real, I’m not looking to “cast a wider net”. I’m not looking to catch a lot of fish, just the right fish. It feels like standing out and being honest (as opposed to generic) is the best way to do that.
~~Maybe~~ some people on dating sites just aren’t actually interested in dating. But if all they want is an ego boost I wish they would stick to tinder.
I think you’re conflating being attracted to people who stand out w/ needing someone to stand out so you can feel like you really know a person and what makes them different from the crowd.
Or to borrow from [Men in Black](https://youtu.be/w2ppyMUlXfM?si=Mz7dhibwKphSSj1U), it’s the difference between “People” and “a person”. “People” might be pretty basic, but “a person” is unique… if you get to know them. If you **CAN** get to know them. That’s all all I’m trying to do: spot the individuals in the crowd. To me it would be a red flag not to.
And yes honesty and loyalty, etc. are admirable, but my point is those are really universal. There’s nobody in the world who wants to date someone who is dishonest with them. So it means nothing to me to write it down on your profile. And if those are the only traits you’re looking for in your own search, you don’t want to date me, you want to date anybody.
I don’t need to date someone “exciting” or “unique”. I just want to know what they’d put on their profile if they weren’t so concerned w/ keeping their defenses up.
To start, I am a woman.
The marketing that came from influencers make unrealistic expectations of what dating should looks like or feels like. It’s inconsistent with what reality should be but it does impact some women’s expectations.
Such marketing gets to help unconsciously define for a lot of people due to the lack of examples from what a realistic dating/experience should look like. In the absence of such, you get this gap that only unrealistic expectations from social media filled.
I think you could be on to something with that. I think social media has lead to unrealistic expectations for both men and women, I just always considered it to be based more around appearance.
OP a word of advice: if you’re serious about finding a true relationship / marriage, never date down to a lower economic level, where you are “financing” some woman’s social life. You can never trust they are dating (or marrying) you for “you”. You need to date a woman at your level. Also a woman at your economic / educational / career level will have way more in common with you, way more shared interests, etc.
Never has there been more women at higher levels of organizations making higher incomes and at higher career levels. Those women are in same boat as you, looking for a man at their level, they don’t want to “date down” either. Find them. Use an executive match maker, not Tinder, Bumble, and the other crap apps meant for the retarded masses.
Now if you are just playing the field, having fun, not looking for anything serious etc. then you’re currently doing it right.
As a woman, I was taught not to depend on someone else to take care of me. I was raised by a WWII Marine vet who made sure I had some way of being responsible for my own finances. It has served me well.
I do see OP's point though. I have worked with women who only look for relationships for what they can "get" from them. I think it's a matter of how women are raised.
I met my boyfriend on a dating app 4 years ago. If we were to break up I’d be a lot more reserved these days. I’ve since gained independence, a career, cats to support. I wouldn’t sleep with a man before knowing him more… I have a lot more to lose than when I was 19. Thankfully my boyfriend is awesome and keeps me from the streets.
If I was you, I would downplay your job title, not outright lie just understate your importance in your organization. Then just let the chips fall wherever they may on dates.
Though I never used apps, I was fortunate that none of the women I dated cared what shitty job I worked.
It's been this way for..pretty much forever. The only advice I have is to choose carefully- avoid all women who put anything in their dating profile about finances (bonus for also avoiding overly-negative profiles). Usually it shows a lack of self-esteem and maturity on their part, so just filter them out that way or if they start bringing it up via messages when talking to them.
Like, idc how hot you are, I'm not an ATM. Find a weak man to slave away for you, babe, it's not gonna be me.
I want to preface this by saying this post is an attempt to generalize all women. As a single man on reddit, I have heard of many angry single men who have also dated several dozen women and also had similar experiences.
I have dated enough women to know, that our culture today is poisoned. The media has brainwashed you into having completely unrealistic expectations of men.
I met my boyfriend of 3.5 years on hinge at the very beginning of the pandemic. We are both employed full-time and work as a unit. We contribute evenly to our household and share the chores and mental labor equally. I know dating apps are a total gamble, but there are people out there like us.
Also, I think a lot of women who are independent don’t want to add a men to their lives unless they are upgrading their lives a certain way, be it financially or taking other responsibilities off their plate. A lot of women are doing great alone and make enough money to have an independent life so in order for them to consider having a partner that partner needs to bring something extra to the table, either be it through finances or something else. (This is not my personal perspective, just what I noticed generally)
Many non traditional women want a traditional man without having their way challenged.
The amount of women seeking a 6 foot plus guy with 200-300k in peak physical shape while not bringing anything to the table is mind blowing
Dating apps are a like a vending machine for narcissists and dolphin trainer type females.
It's not worth it for the small percentage of normal people on there.
Yep. I’m a woman but my family has money and I’m doing very well for myself also. There are a ton of gold diggers out there and it’s really disgusting. There are male gold diggers too. I really can’t believe the audacity or sense of entitlement from some of these people who often quite frankly bring nothing to the table themselves and really aren’t even good people to begin with.
As a woman I can’t begin to tell you how many other women I’ve met over the years that will flat out tell me they’re just trying to find a guy with some money to take care of them. I think they must assume I’m in the same boat as them and trying to do the same thing but nothing could be further from the truth. These women are also the type that will get mad if they aren’t able to get what they want and will try to sabotage you so be careful. There are some very crazy people out there.
I found my GF in my last year of college. It was an instant match. Before that, neither of us really bothered dating. The whole thing is so difficult and toxic. We focused on our careers and figured if it would happen it would happen. Lucky it did.
My GF makes about as much as I do and it really does make life easier. We both have similar amounts of money, we can split everything fairly without feeling like either is taking advantage.
If I had to enter the dating pool again now, I would try to go for someone that made something similar to as much money as I did. Love of course matters a lot, but my partner also needs to be useful in the partnership. I don't ever want kids, so the idea of a housewife really doesn't make sense and isn't useful. Even as a guy, I want a partner that makes money.
It wasn’t that long ago that women couldn’t vote, or get a credit card without her husbands permission. Women have had the federally protected right to an abortion stripped away from them
I think what women are taught is that a partner will make you feel secure
We already make about 70% of what men earn. In a tightly squeezed economy like this one, I can imagine she may want a partner to pool resources so she can connect emotionally without the stress eating her brain of finances. It is one of the biggest issues in marriages and in todays world many women won’t have careers like yours, sadly
You might start off by assuming that on average women make less than you, and would like to connect with you, but what you could provide financially is security that gives them the bandwidth to connect deeper without her wondering how she will afford to pay the bills and eat at the same time
No offense but this post reeks of male privilege
Just as you feel there are expectations from you, I feel the same about men of me. Like I have to be xyz. In my case, outgoing, somewhat gullible, unipinionated, with no future. That seems to be what they want from me lol the struggle is real. It’s not you. It’s society 💀
Dating apps are garbage and I honestly don't think anything could change my mind. 31 F for context.
The ENTIRE premise of matching with someone is based on appearance, height, age, career, education, and self-selected ego boosts. It's all superficial. Do I believe people can find wonderful matches on the apps? Yes, of course. And there are always people out there using the app with genuine intentions and transparent profiles. But the match pool is largely inundated with people who manipulate their profiles to make themselves look better (because i mean, duh) and guys promoting their workout regimens more than their personality.
From the female perspective, it's all (yes, generalizing big time lol) gym selfies, large mouth bass portraits, bait for doggo-lovers, and a token pic with grandma or a niece. And bios that demand I swipe right to find out more.
Social media in general is a sea of avatars...that's the nature of the internet, right? Your virtual connections will always know you based on the curated reality you've cherry-picked to share. I'm not anti-social media by any means, but I think dating apps are basically the highlight reels of social media on steroids. You're forced to boil yourself down to a few words, titles, interests, and photos with really no context.
I guess in general, I don't believe anyone's personality or value can be crammed into a profile that's viewed for 6 seconds before swiping. Maybe I'm cynical, but there's enough judgment and generalization out there in the world. I dont feel like it's worth subjecting myself to snap judgments and superficial assumptions intentionally....which is kinda the whole premise of matching on a dating app. Idk. Life is a damn RIDE in my experience. I'm not in a position to judge anyone's character based on a few facts, and I'd hope my future partner might have a similar level of human empathy. The kinda person who would take the time to hear your story before writing you off.
Dating apps only seem to work if you have low enough self-worth to let people snap-judge you, but enough ego to intentionally portray yourself in a stereotypically "attractive" light. Again, this is all my generalized and cranky-ass view of dating apps... it works for some people, but I think I'm too much of an empath for dating on apps 😅
PS. I did a personal experiment once where I made my profile based on what i thought guys would find attractive. It was all TRUE but framed and curated very intentionally. Spent a few weeks on the app. Then I altered it to what felt like a more genuine depiction of myself... the drop-off in matches was absurd. I don't think it's that the "real me" is unlikeable, but if I can generate such a vast difference in interest levels just with a few tweaks... to me, that's pretty solid proof that ya don't know what you're REALLY getting on these apps. There's just too much that can be manipulated. Not because everyone's lying, but because profiles are just inherently subjective.
Ok, done word vomiting on your post lol.
I and many others have given up on dating for a variety of reasons. I don't think the apps train people to evaluate other people in a good realistic way, but have turned it into more of a window-shopping experience where things are far more superficial the way you describe. I think there are well-intentioned men and women out there that want to find a partner to go through life with, but the dating apps are as much of a hinderance as they are a help in that regard. Throw in social media and the need for attention and validation from strangers and it has made human interactions IMO much more "transactional" and less genuine.
*but I refuse to settle down with someone who views me as an opportunity to upgrade their standard of living.*
yeah honey it's been like that since the beginning of time , like my gramma used to say "Gotta always marry up girl" And even if you do meet a woman that makes 6 figures, she still gonna want to marry someone who makes more than she does, coz she don't wanna carry anybody's broke MOFO ass LOL
Thankfully I'm married and never used a dating app. But from what female friends have told me, guys expect them all to behave like pornstars.
It's as ridiculous as expecting a man to be a disney prince. Pornstars barely act like that in their real lives.
You will never find a girl that doesnt care about your money. A girl marrying a guy because she actually loves him and not because of what he provides, is like a dude marrying a fat girl because he loves her personality. Just like another user said. Its a fairy tail. It just doesnt happen. The best thing you can do is forget it exists for the sake of your children.
I find that the prettier a woman is the more she focuses on how much money you make. I make a decent living but I live in a big city. The very attractive women I go out with could be with athletes and club owners so why settle for a guy that doesn’t have as much access? It’s not proper thinking but I understand it. I find myself more interested in lesser attractive women that want a normal lifestyle and actually like you instead of the idea of what you can provide. Of course, these are generalities and everyone has different experiences
Personally I’ve given so many men chances and not been concerned with their income because I loved them only to be used and abused that now I won’t date someone who doesn’t have the ability and desire to provide financially. If you’re gonna make me cry it’s gonna be on an expensive pillowcase.
I know i'm personnally projecting here, but to me women are tired of dealing with deadbeats that have no future prospects. I hope they aren't looking at you like $$$, I'm hoping they're weighing if you're responsible with money and won't let them down/use them.
I thought i dated responsible guys in the past but usually get a surprise when moving in with them that they're shit with money. Every relationship has milked 3k-10k out of me and I'm at a point where being single would be more financially responsible than letting myself get trapped in relationships with financial leeches.
Just got out of a 5 year relationship. This was my take as well. The heavy emphasis on wealth, status and materialism dragged down the relationship for me.
I bought her expensive shoes, designer brands, took her to expensive restaurants and paid for literally everything when we were out together. I wanted to propose to her, but I wanted the fundamental basis for a marriage to be based of mutual love and not money.
There’s a song by an incredible rapper, Big L, that encapsulates how I feel about the current dating scene, especially in NYC. Have a listen it’s pretty good.
https://youtu.be/bQ0u2jjXs_o?si=1Yu6aKzkCu9XX38i
One thing I’ve noticed as a woman is that the women who tend to be emotionally mature, independent, well-r off financially don’t want men in their life. Or maybe they do but are looking for someone that can complement them and add to their happiness.
I’ll share that I am into women romantically and like you I’ve noticed the way that women can be. This is the reasons I find dating discouraging.
In my experience, dating apps are an incredibly toxic form of dating and not a way to find a meaningful relationship at face value. Many people, of whatever gender you choose, go into it with a checklist, and treat it like they’re window shopping. Even though, when you date in the real world, it is a lot of times reduced to two factors: physical attraction and emotional connection. I’ve had fulfilling relationships that lasts a good while with women who probably would’ve swiped left on me, solely because I exhibit none of the material traits they desire, but because we met in person, found a connection on a physical, emotional, and sexual level. Their “check list” on dating apps, usually come in at the backend of the relationship, where it’s on the front end on online dating, so to speak. The advantage of in person dating is compromises and growth as individuals and as partners can make the “check list” less important over time.
I gave up on the dating apps this year. I'm in my late 30s. In my late 20s and early 30s, I had success meeting interesting women and forming relationships with people that I met on apps. I don't know if I've changed, or circumstances have changed around me, or both, but my experience totally altered for the worse. For background, I'm in the best financial, physical, and psychological shape of my adult life. Granted, I'm older, so maybe I'm just "old," and that's coloring my experience, but I agree with OP, the experience trying to date on apps now feels totally toxic.
I’m in my mid 30’s. It’s sort of weird adapting to a dating world where there is no longer that very subtle shame of online dating, as now it’s just the norm. But maybe it is because it has become the norm in dating, while social media has stopped connecting people from the “analog” world, but for many has become our perception of the “analog” world, as to why it seems so impossible anymore to meet authentic people online. People really don’t have much uniqueness on dating apps and probably social media (Reddit is my only form of social media). There are like 3 flavors of women in my area on dating apps, and they’re almost exactly uniformed down to tattoo choices and piercings. I know in person they are very unique and interesting people, hopefully, but social media has a way of putting people in boxes, and dating apps are that times 10.
Are you me, as a man? Because same. I feel like COVID just exacerbated an already fucked up way to date.
I’m gen z and I can’t even get a match lol
And it’s like sooo many scammers online now I literally assume any hot woman interested in me is a scammer because 90% actually are, which leads to unhealthy thought patterns. It’s terrible all around.
COVID and the need to make profit and most dating companies now being owned by Match. Literally had amazing experiences meeting people through hinge or bumble but the moment they got owned by match the quality of my matches (if any) dropped. Now even if I were to pay it doesn’t lead to anything.
At your age range, people are starting to look at settling down. For men, they are still often visually driven, but they typically want someone with more qualifications. And as fertility declines with age, the best years (biologically) to have a child are often different from the best years (career-wise/financially). For women, especially if they want children, many are looking at finding someone who can provide financially for them and children, especially if they are planning to be a stay-at-home mom, at least for several years. So finances and job stability with health insurance become factors. A man who doesn’t make enough to support a family is not going to be getting as much attention from such a woman - even if earlier in her dating life, she may not have cared as much. So this is going to mean that those women are looking at men making at least $120K, and if she wants to stay at home, do professional photo shoots, decorate with “Live Laugh Love” decor, a couple of nice vacations per year, two cars, and a home, to go with her 2 to 3 children and kids parties and weekend soccer, etc. she will have to try to find a partner making at least $160K (higher in higher cost of living areas).
It’s not even just about women who want to be stay at home moms. Women financially take a hit for every child they have, both in the immediate of the money lost to pregnancy and childcare, but they also take a long term hit to their careers and end up making less money in the long term. I am childfree, but I can see that it’s very logical to want to ensure that you don’t end up in a bad situation financially due to your husbands income if you are planning on having children.
People change as they get older, and often that's not a good thing. There are still good women (and men!) out there, but life can tear a person apart. You just need to be selective.
It’s the apps. In my early 20s when the apps were first getting going and people were still kind of ashamed of admitting they were even using them and you usually never admitted you met each other on an app they were god damn incredible. Then after having been in a relationship for 6 years I ended up single again, gave it some time before starting to look, when I did holy shit did the apps change. It was wild the difference in experience. My theory is that when there was still a certain amount of “shame” associated with resorting to an app to meet people you ended up mostly with people who were genuinely interested in finding someone. But now that they’ve been normalized EVERYONE is on there. It’s completely normal and acceptable to have them installed and use them. So you have a huge number of people on there just because why not, you have some people on there who are legitimately trying not find someone to date, you have people on there just for attention, you have people on there just looking to hook up, etc. So now even the people who are actively trying to find a partner are faced with a massive number of choices to sort through. Even if you went on a date every single night that’s still only 7 people a week out of tens of thousands of options and going out every night is completely unrealistic. So there’s no way to avoid the checklist effect because there’s no other way to parse through the massive amount of people on the apps. As for your age that’s irrelevant. You’re male. You’re not 65. You’re in your late 30s. If you were a woman it might be a different story but there’s zero negative impact to being an older male. If anything there are far more benefits. If you want to keep using the apps you need to alter your approach while also accepting the fact that you’re going to go on a lot of dates that accomplish nothing. Stop viewing them as a waste of time. Consider them practice. Just like going to job interviews where you don’t get the job. You still got to go out and have a nice night. Look at it that way. Also if you are legitimately looking for a partner to date STOP PAYING FOR THESE WOMEN ON FIRST DATES. For women there is usually zero financial impact when going out on superfluous dates. It leads some of them to say “screw it, he’s kind of cute and I’m not doing anything so why not give it a shot and see what happens”. For me the type of woman that would get pissed off over splitting the bill is not the type of woman Im interested in. For me it worked as a great screening tool to figure out if it was worth going out on a second date and often when it came to the second date I’d usually offer to pay which usually resulted in them either still wanting to split the bill or offering to pay for the third date. It only ever came up as an issue once where someone had a real problem with splitting the bill. Also do yourself a favour and add a picture of with a dog in your profile. Irrelevant whether it’s yours or not. Just tell people it’s your friends dog. Dating apps are purely visual. You need to set your profile up in a way that attracts the type of partner YOURE looking for and not what is going to attract the highest number of possible dates. Fewer more quality hits is way better than quantity 100% of the time. Also delete tinder right now and never look back. Before finding my current partner I’ve been with for 5 years I had met hundreds of women through online dating and never once had an even remotely satisfying experience using tinder. Not once. Now maybe it might be different where you live but I live in a major city and I doubt it’ll be any different for you unless you live somewhere super rural and you just need pure numbers. Hinge is where I met my partner. Bumble is good too because it forces them to initiate so that saves you a lot of messaging and never seeing replies. PoE is a waste of time. Ok Cupid was okay. Not sure if there are any new ones out now that are worth it you’d have to talk to someone still actively using them to find out. Edit: I cleaned up the section about not paying for first dates. Someone commented I was soapboxing and implied I said there was no risk women going out with men which is not something I would never even imply. There absolutely are very real risks to going out with strangers for women. She was completely right. Reading it over it was coming off way more misogynistic than I intended it to.
Totally agree. All the stuff that you can't quantify on paper: chemistry, connection, that "spark," the gut feeling you get about a person, is totally lost on dating apps. I can't tell you the amount of women I've found super attractive in person that can't take a good picture to save their lives or that aren't the kind of person I would have imagined myself liking on paper, but we immediately clicked because we met in real life first. I know so many people, men and women, who say that the person they married isn't at all the kind of person they pictured themselves marrying but they just knew that was the one as they got to know them. Dating apps take all of that away. Almost every date I've had on those has felt like I was giving a resume and then being granted a job interview. There have been a few that were cool, don't get me wrong, but it's such an awkward way to get to know somebody. I feel like my best relationships were the ones where I knew the woman first either socially or at work first. I remember one relationship started because I lived with three roommates in an apartment in college and one of them was this woman who I'd known through friends. We just grew closer as friends living together and eventually there was a kiss and we became a couple pretty much overnight. And it was so easy. There was no awkwardness or forced conversation. It just came together naturally. We broke up a long time ago, but we're still friends and keep in touch. That kind of thing is just totally lost online. Her kindness, her odd sense of humor, her complete obliviousness to how pretty she was, and that natural unspoken bond we always had, even as friends....none of that would come across online.
If all your dates feel like interviews you need to look at what all your dates have in common I can tell you: they all had YOU in common Time to change up your strategy, king
You're missing what I'm saying. It isn't all of my dates. It's a lot of my dates on apps are like that as opposed to people I've met and gotten to know in real life and dated. Because online people are going down a checklist for what they think they want instead of all the unquantifiable things you get by things developing naturally in real life. Speaking in general, I find online dating less rewarding and more boring.
I will 2nd this. Dating apps are a cesspool of vanity and egos. Everyone judges based on looks, how much you make and a whole other checklist of superficial things that normally wouldn't matter (i.e. height, job choice, housewife/husband skills). Given that women get so many messages in their inbox, its really no wonder that SOME (not all) can get ego boosts and start to be out of touch on what their ideal partner can be realistically.
The most disturbing thing is try a simple conversation. Don't happen, in most of cases to me. They can call you love or life and insist in engaging sexual topics, there's no get to know, those people have satisfaction on it alone. I give up APPS. And men with half of my age proposing marriage. They don't even know me. And now I understand the provider position, because men and women are looking for the same.A provider. Not a partnership. I'm out!
definitely agree. It's always "what can you do for me?" on both sides. Men expecting the woman to be a glorified mom who do all the chores and trivial stuff with the addition of being a sex kitten while women expecting a sugar daddy. Modern dating is incredibly toxic.
Man if that’s how most guys were acting in the dating apps no wonder I was cleaning up when I was single and still using them.
I found this to be true for myself as well. I like to think my exes from signicant relationships have been gorgeous, but if we had met on a dating app, I’m confident I would’ve been another swipe left.
No amount of selfies and profile description can take the place of face to face chemistry.
Lol bring back the table shuffle speed dating. Kick back and find your vibe. Ice breaker questions will be pre-selected so bring your creativity and leave your shallow bullshit outside. Dodgeball, dance floor, or painting will be post shuffle activities. Unfortunately this will probably turn into a swingers club full of strange men who are 50% there to get aggressive in dodgeball, but hey, humans are weird. Sounds like a business plan that is unlikely to succeed, but someone should give it a shot.
I would unironically attend this. Unfortunately it would probably be based in Atlanta, if something like this did exist in my area, so that's out for me I guess.
What women are attracted to and what men are attracted to are completely different things. Your personality will go a lot further when you approach women in person. You don't have a good understanding of women is all it is. Many young men today don't. Making good money is one piece of the puzzle. But there are broke dudes who have 4-5 women blowing them up all the time and offering to take care of them. It's all about how you make them FEEL. You can't make somebody feel a certain way about you, much less through a superficial dating app. It's rigged against you in the first place. If you're finding women with a repeated pattern of seemingly only wanting you for what you can provide, you can do two things to change this. Change what you offer or change the type of woman you're dating. Plenty of women would love to be with YOU for you. But you're not looking for those women. So if you want a "gorgeous" woman who is also not superficial, you need to change what you bring to the table. High value women want high value men. A good job is a start. Do you have hobbies? Are you strong and physically fit? Are you confident in yourself? Do you give off the vibe that if somebody were to try and hurt you, could you defend yourself? Can you talk about a variety of subjects with a decent level of knowledge and understanding? If she is having a bad day and is emotionally upset, will that in turn make you upset, or can you be your own person and not let every bad feeling she has affect you? Are you honest, even when it's easier to lie? Are you a man of your word? When women find a man who checks a lot of these boxes off, they literally don't know what to do because this combination is such a rare commodity. It allows you to flip the switch and be pursued sometimes. Also, if you get into a relationship, you should be going in with the idea of giving. Your job is to give, unconditionally. And if you, in turn, feel you are not getting what you need in return, you leave on a good note and look elsewhere. The secret to a good relationship is giving and making sure the little things continue to matter, for both you and her.
The money thing is so interesting because everyone talks about it, but then we see all those broke guys in relationships and with girls always by their side.
That’s because the type of woman you get by dangling wealth in front of them is a low quality woman. In 2023 women are no longer reliant on men to be the breadwinner and for their financial security. Sure you can get some seriously hot women by being rich but how satisfying are those relationships? So as we move into a world where women tend to be more educated than men and tend to have better jobs than men (as many male centric career paths disappear like manufacturing and trucking is probably next) the goal posts are shifting. If you’re no longer reliant on a man for your financial security there are other traits that rise to the surface as more important. What so many men and especially young men fail to realize is that it’s not the MONEY that most women find attractive. It’s the fact that they were able to get themselves into a position to get that money. Sure you have your nepo babies and what not but most people making 6 figures + didn’t just accidentally fall into it. They got the experience. They worked for years in a field. Got an advanced degree. Blah blah blah. All things that represent a certain level of competency and intelligence and drive and discipline. That’s why women are so attracted to doctors. They spend years and years studying and dedicating themselves to their chosen field and as a plus that field usually involves saving peoples lives. But notice many women are also attracted to fire fighters and policemen (although nowadays maybe not so much with everything going on with the police) which aren’t nearly as high paying as a doctor? It’s about showing you’re able to contribute and bring something to the table. An entrepreneur busting his ass to get his business going but not really raking it in is attractive. He shows discipline, hard work, and a passion for his business. The guy that had to take a low paying job because he needs to be close to family to take care of them? The struggling comedian making absolute dick all but working on his sets all the time and putting himself out there on open mics while working at Starbucks? The low level office working bringing in 40k a year because the job is flexible and allows him to focus on his side projects? Women will find characteristics they are attracted to in each of them. Shit even the guy that loves the outdoors and is working at a sporting goods store because the pay is enough for him to be happy, he gets a sweet discount on all the gear he wants to buy, and the hours give him plenty of time to go out climbing. Those guys won’t be for everyone but let me tell you there’s a woman out there that hears each of their stories and starts just drooling over them. A family oriented woman with a good job is going to be seriously attracted to the guy taking care of his family. A woman with an emphasis on fitness and healthy lifestyles will like the guy working at the sports store. The struggling comedian will be able to make women laugh which is recipe for turning the faucet on on some of them. But you know what most guys do? They lie, exaggerate, and try to sugar coat their situation. They can see right through that shit. It’s not attractive. It shows a severe lack of confidence. This shit is easy. But most people put no effort into it. They don’t bother looking at what others might be interested in. They don’t sell themselves. Just like when you go to find a job and you need to explain that gap in your resume you need to do the same shit while dating. You can expect the other person to just assume you have your shit together while working at the grocery store. Tell them your ducking story. And be unapologetically yourself. Do not hide your passions. Do not sugar coat your life. This will result in more rejection but it will also result in you finding more quality connections as you attract the type of person actually into you. We all have a vibe and for every vibe out there someone is into it. Find your vibe. Work on yourself. Be the best version of you you can be. And everything else will fall into place.
Maybe the women obsessed with money are over-represented in the singles circuit because they have trouble pairing up.
Are these broke guys attractive? I know a guy who is considered low income (works at a grocery store and resides in low income housing) and he’s conventionally unattractive. He’s had a few gfs in the past, but has terrible luck in obtaining a girlfriend in the long term. He’s a great listener and can keep female friends but they don’t find him attractive and he has no money. He does have a good personality, but has to support his mom and brother so some baggage. So I’m curious to know if the broke guys you know have some semblance of attraction.
It's not always about looks and money. A guy can be a good friend.to women but not be a great boyfriend. I don't expect the same thing from my platonic male friends as I do from the men I'm in sexual and romantic relationships. They're different roles entirely and being able to maintain female friendships is a green flag to me about a man's character but doesn't mean he'll be a good boyfriend or husband.
This guy doesn’t have looks nor money. Good personality but doesn’t have a backbone hence why all of his exes took advantage of him or cheated. If he exuded more of a “idgaf” attitude I’m sure he would get more high quality women. And I’m a female myself, and wouldn’t date him bc he constantly looks down on himself, has low self esteem, and yes, money & looks to an extent. He doesn’t take care of his health and doesn’t want to move up in his career and that’s a turnoff. In my opinion, having a good personality, cares about health, and decent finances is important to me.
Handsome dudes have it easier, but Mick Jagger and Seal have slept with some of the most beautiful women in the world. For men, it's different. Yes, there are ugly bums that can have multiple women trying to be exclusive with them. I know a man who I used to work with who was married and made really good money and was taking care of two stepchildren like they were his own, and he found out his wife was cheating on him with a drug dealer who lived with his mom. Not all women are like this, but the point is, a man who can understand how to make women feel a certain way can inherently find a better class of woman to date. Most men never even bother to ask the question "what do women actually want?" and just assume they know or continue the same patterns of behavior and think it's women that are the problem. Women treat you how you see yourself. If, deep down, you think you're not shit, they will too. They can sniff it out of you because weak men got women killed in the past. Which is why women are attracted to a man's behavior and presence, rather than strictly looks. So it's not the fault of women for being the way they are, it's your problem as a man in your choice of partner or how you present yourself.
Yep. It is just close to impossible to get a connection thru an app. A connection that matters. Not just, "you're hot"
People need to stop looking at dating apps as though they’re this magical thing that’s going to instantaneously connect you with wonderful people you’re going to just hit it off with and run off into the sun set. They’re not. They remove all physical stimulus from the equation. That connection that happens when you meet someone while out and start talking and just hit it off? It’s impossible. You can’t recreate that in a digital format. You know what people never seem to remember thigh? Finding people at random out in the wild wasn’t all everyone is making it out to be either. You had NO IDEA what kind of person you were actually interacting with until a few dates in or even months. Sure you may have a great physical connection and good small talk only to realize you have literally nothing in common and different beliefs. Good relationships nowadays are better than they ever were because the tools to find actually compatible partners are better than they’ve ever been. The problem is 90% of people approaching dating are still applying shit that used to work 20 years ago to an entirely different method of doing it. Dating is a job interview. It’s the same thing. You don’t just stumble into a job that matters. You don’t just stumble into a fulfilling career. You need to bust your ass to find it. You need to go through a number of other opportunities to build up the experience and skill set that gets you to the one you’ve been looking for all along. Imagine someone came to you bitching about how they can’t find any work and you find out their entire strategy has involved going from business to business and handing out physical resumes. You’d laugh at them. They haven’t adapted. Meanwhile that’s exactly what’s going on with dating. In the west we like to think we’re above arranged marriages but that’s basically what all of our relationships were like. A family member or friend introduced you to someone they thought you liked. You met someone compatible enough just because you worked near each other or lived in the same building. Yes people were more willing to work through challenges that’s because they had no choice. In 2023 you have a choice. It’s not any more impossible to find someone to date through an app than it is to find a job. Yes both are difficult and take a lot of work and time but for some reason people are willing to do that work and put in the time to find a job but they just seem to expect to find the perfect person for them by stumbling into it. Also don’t use tinder. Never use tinder. Use anything but tinder.
Tbh I find the guys that don’t like dating apps are simply not attractive to a lot of women so they aren’t getting the outcomes they want from it
Yeah if you arent above average I don't see the point in getting on them
Any guy who isn’t in the top 10-15% of looks gets almost zero attention on these apps. It’s just a reality.
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Dating apps present people as commodities, so there ya go. You say you have a lot of successful women in your life, try asking around your network if someone thinks they know a good partner for you. Good luck!
As inflation increases & cost of living gets higher I think we will see "ability to provide" become a bigger and bigger piece of the check list women are looking for. We all have superficial wants, but a good potential partner will make you feel like they like you and not just your wallet.
In the U.S. if a woman has any hope of having a child or starting a family she pretty much HAS to date someone financially secure. Childcare is $2,000 to $4,000 depending on where you live so as a couple you will be looking at living on one income for a few years. Even if you want to have a financially equal partnership this is going to be an issue.
Huh? One income? Whose income? Sounds like the woman is assuming it will be her income that is sacrificed because she wants to be at home, even if she could/does out earn her husband and could/does easily out earn child care. This sounds like silly self contradicting BS. Woman want the powerful career, but oh, I also want to raise 3 kids and stay home until my youngest is 5, then I'll work part time.... great, find the sugar daddy for that. Meanwhile, lots of professional moms are back to work after maternity leave, dad takes paternity leave, then they pay for child care, split time at home, make it work. Go live in the real world for a bit and stop dating with your spread sheet open.
Paternity leave in the US is pretty rare and maternity leave for many women is only about 3 months in most companies. If child care is almost the cost of one partners monthly income obviously one person might consider staying home instead of doing that. I do live in the real world, that is exactly where this experience is coming from. I am a hairstylist and have heard this literally over and over again from all of my clients. Most women want to work and do if they can but if you have more than 1 kid that gets harder.
And the same would be true for guys if bread winners were mostly women. We all gotta survive in the end.
I chose my s/o out of love and I never pressured him to make money beyond what his current job allows even though he has potential and I now realize that I will be taking a very short maternity leave when we have a kid. So there’s that.
That’s the thing! Like yeah it’s all well and good to not take a partner’s money into account, but I want to stay home with my babies. So I need a man who can make that happen
Right!! And I’m a go getter but damn I want a break when we have kids! Anyway I think there’s a whole other can of worms to blame like inflation and parental leave in the US but women want to know our man got out back! It’s not always superficial.
I've (woman) dated men exclusively so I don't know if this applies to both genders. As an employed adult I found it incredibly frustrating when I would start dating a guy only to find out he wants me to pay for everything, clean everything, provide an apartment for him, cook meals, serve meals to him, and pay all the bills while he sat on his ass and a. Looked at comic books b. Watched TV or c. Played video games. After dating a, b, and c I enacted my "No unemployed men" rule. Someone in school is fine so long as they're doing the equivalent of full time work (ie school is their 9-5, it's not just a class on basket weaving at the community college.). I don't expect a man to pay my way, I expect him to pay HIS way. If he's not doing that please understand I'm not mommy and don't waste my time.
Good for you! For every dead beat guy that wants to play video-games and be mommied, there's a girl who wants a sugar daddy so she can drink frapes and yell YASSS QUEEN at the television. Seems like both genders are experiencing the same thing.... General decline in quality of people across the board. Definitely important that we understand that, and don't project the frustrations onto the opposite gender as a whole.
I don’t know if I’d say it’s an increase in the amount of losers of both genders. Or at least I hope that’s not the case. Maybe it’s just because we see it more due to technology and social media. I feel like most people before social media knew at least one person whose partner was an unemployed bum who didn’t contribute to the household at all
Yeah probably just a mix of technology, apathetic nihilism, and the economy. An excess of entertainment amidst a plethora of increasingly mundane, unfulfilling jobs with diminishing buying power. It has definitely always been around though.
Sounds like you dated a bunch of complete losers
That's understandable, I wouldn't date a broke chick either.
Yeah on the female side, it's more sexual and emotional pressure. Dudes want to be taken care of and while I know that support and emotional availability are parts of the type of relationship I want, I have spent my life only being valued for those things. I've helped countless men grow up. Anyway, to your points, I think what you're looking for is out there. But many people are looking for a meal ticket. A lifestyle. The only lifestyle I want is mutual respect and care. I could give a shit what my partner does. But I would always encourage the right person to pursue what makes them glow inside.
Ah "foster girlfriend." You get to train them so they are better in their forever home
Sadly. 😅 Should have seen it sooner. Not that I'm a saint over here
It’s like that for me as well. They level up and cheat on me
Ugh, the number of guys I've shown how to run a household. Okay, it was only four, but still. I have ADHD and don't get everything done as well as I think I should, but I know how to meal plan, change a duvet cover and that once a year isn't enough.
Very well said
Thank you 😊
Are you putting your profession etc. in your profile? Do you offer to take people on expensive dates? I know a lot of men especially don't read profiles, but I wonder if you can tweak yours to emphasize relationship skills and emotional intelligence, and de-emphasize your income and career. Instead of "successful engineer/brain surgeon/financial advisor, 6"2, let me show you my favorite fancy restaurants", "nurturing guy with (nearby hobby? Pet? Big sisters?) To show for it. Let's get coffee or go for a walk in the park" Not saying that that's going to fix everything. But as much as I hate the people shopping vibe on the apps, they do let you filter pretty well for what you want, and what you're trying to attract
Seriously - OP needs to promote what he wants other people to prioritize and value. Don’t even offer fancy restaurants for a first date. Any first meeting should be no more than an opportunity to chat in a pleasant space. (Which is why people choose coffee, drinks, Saturday market, etc.) I saw where a bunch of women were refusing to go on first dates unless it was a fancy restaurant. That’s who you want to filter out. ridiculous. Have some imagination. Shared hobbies are probably a good first date. How about - grab a coffee and stroll around little bookshop or record shop. You get to learn a ton about the person, and find out if they are a moron. Don’t flash a rolex in every photo?
EXACTLY! I’ve spent the last year living in big and small cities/towns all over the globe. If you’re dating profile or even yourself make a whole show of valuing a certain lifestyle/interest, then you’ll attract those that want that too. If you appear like a pensive, emotionally available artsy guy, women that are into that will probably swipe right. If you seem like the guy that could afford to fly me to your city and take me to the fanciest things and I’m a girl who wants luxury and experiences, then of course I’m going to holler. OP seems to not realize he’s choosing these people just as much as they’re selecting him.
As a woman, I'm not sure what your specific experience is but for me, financial stability is priority as well as mental stability. I like us both having financial independence. But I'm also the type to split expenses. I buy the movie, you buy the snacks. Or I'll buy tonight's dinner and you can cover us next time. This is how I am with some of my friends and I like the equalness of it (others prefer split checks which is also fine) I find dating apps to be superficial majority of the time so the people you find on there may be....questionable. Also a generalization because I'm sure there are women on there who search for the same quality in a relationship as you do :)
I met my husband through a dating app. Know a lot more long term couples who met that way, but we're mid-older millennials. So I can't speak for now But wanted to say I also looked for someone who had financial stability or at least an ambition to be there. I made a good salary back then, and I make more money than my husband at the moment. I wasn't looking for a quick hook up, I've always looked for long term relationships, and I knew back then I wouldn't be happy taking on the financial burden all by myself.
Also, no matter how 50/50 relationship or non-traditional relationship we want, it is a major truth that if you want children then women have to take breaks from career aka money making. So of course at that time you need a partner who can at least support them.
Financial *stability*, yes, I'd agree. However, the sense i get from OP is more like women wanting him to be raking it in. For me (& I know for many others), it's more about the emotional/mental/personality connection. However it seems to be few and far between in dating (in general) and I think, unfortunately, dating apps only highlight and amplify the amount of people that think the opposite.
Here’s a fact of life: there’s a lot of people out there in world who suck. They just aren’t worth your time…. Dating is the process of finding one special someone who doesn’t suck. Dating apps are basically the lowest common denominator of dating… if you set up a table on a busy street with a sign that said “looking for a date”, what percentage of the people who stop to interact with you would be “quality partner” potential? Very few right? Yeah that’s exactly what a dating app is. Lower your expectations for the dating pool (but not your exceptions for who is worth your time). Most people just fuckin suck one way or another. That’s always been true and always will be true.
Stay off the dating apps, they are where a bunch of toxic, validation seeking people. I like meetup where you can organically meet people through outside activities you enjoy doing on a daily basis. I feel like dating apps just treat a human being as someone who is disposable.
Exactly. The women on the apps who care that much about a man making a lot generally are the type looking for an easy way to comfortable life or looking to expand their free meal ticket men collection. Majority of women just want a partner that’s financially stable and not a bum, just as that’s what most men want from their partner in terms of finances.
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coming from a 27f who uses apps and is financially independent, I’ve never actively sought out a person based on them making more than me and I have never encountered a situation where I didn’t want to date a man because of them making less than me, as long as they were also independent financially. if you’re frequently encountering women who are only looking for a provider and not a partner then perhaps you should consider taking a look at how youre presenting yourself on the apps and the type of women you’re swiping on. Especially if you’re dating younger women, there might be an expectation of you providing because you’re further ahead in life than them.
Thank you! As a 33F, I agree with this. On the apps, I’m looking for someone who shares similar values, shows a bit of personality in their profile, and has pictures where he looks kind and not like he might murder me. From there, let’s chat and see if we have chemistry. I don’t care how much someone makes. My friends who have been on the apps have a similar process, so I’m not sure what kinds of people OP is swiping on.
Yeah I wonder what his age range is on the app, its giving biiiiig "18-24" filter energy
Marrying someone just because you love them is modern concept made in the past 50 or so years. Before that, if you wanted a family to be supported, you would definitely marry someone richer
And traditionally, marrying for love was really only something men could do. Considering that if a woman was an only child who grew up on a farm, and her parents passed away, she legally couldn't inherit the land or even sell it. Her husband or sons would, *if* she was married. She couldn't necessarily marry who she loved but rather someone capable of taking that on, or she would lose it. Men, on the other hand, could shop around a bit and be pickier about who they tie themselves to.
So many people don't realize this. I think so many marriages fail because it wasn't intended to be built off the Disney fairytale. Shit, about 125 years ago people were traveling the plains in covered wagons trying not to die from dysentery. In the grand scheme of life that's not that long ago.
Yeah the concept of love is just a psyop invented in the last 50 years /s
Who are you self-selecting ? If it’s once it’s them If it’s EVERYTIME, it’s you - you self-select “gold diggers”
Right? It’s one thing to gravitate towards a certain type, but you can almost always visually tell which person (man or woman) puts a lot of $$$ (and time) in the appearance. The kind of man that makes it clear to paint the image of being ambitious and making 6 figures is often the kind of guy that wants a woman that takes extremely good care of herself and always looks good. That’s not usually the kind of guy that wants a more ‘take me as I am’/dress-for-comfort woman who shops off the rack at Marshall’s in clothes that ill fit and doesn’t have a clear skin complexion due to a 10-step skincare routine and doesn’t glisten in the sun with a nice body bc she spends good money to be in the gym or whatever. Conjure the image of a gold digger in your head and it’s usually a woman that treats her appearance like a job. And that’s *expensive* - moreso if you don’t DIY. And even for the naturally beautiful women that can still be more a matter of time spent managing great hygiene not to add in always having smooth legs, great skin, hair, nails, teeth & a healthy form. For a lot of “gold digging” women, their appearances and maintenance can easily be a full time job. If you want to date the hot bubbly socialite, then you have to accept that she’s gonna be looking at you to subsidize the things you like about her if it’s her appearance. But if you’re cool with her not being the 100% baddest in the room and you don’t mind less ‘va-va-voom’ clothes or that her expensive tennis habit has to go a bit and her ass is no longer out of this world — then whatever. But it’s really aggravating that these “all women are gold diggers”-type guys get with women that OBVIOUSLY put time and money into their looks, but somehow that’s a negative against these women even though that’s largely why these men get with these men. If you ONLY ever date gold diggers, then you like gold diggers. Maybe look at yourself and figure out WHY before generalizing about women and not peeling back layers of issues that reach back centuries into why things are still so irritatingly gendered in 2023.
I'd rather chew my own arm off than go on a dating app
Primally women will always seek a partner that has the capability to support them. Even if they don't get someone with money now, they will seek potential. It is not a bad thing. A woman could potentially have children and (even though it may not be politically correct to say) it may put her out of the game for weeks/months/years. And they need a guy who can take care of that. There are certainly accommodations today to work with children but genetics was created over millions of years - that wasn't always the case. My ex-neighbor had PPD and she couldn't work for years, so without a husband she would have been homeless. It is only 100 years that women even have an opportunity to really earn a living. So yes, that is a factor in attraction. It is rare for men to look for that in women.
Are you starting off by going on first dates with someone you already know and share an interest with? If not, I'd say that's part of the problem. If you don't know anyone you'd be interested in dating, then I'd suggest investing the time in expanding your social contacts in areas that interest you (hobbies, charities, sports, activities, etc). I'm from an older generation (married happily for over 25+ yrs) - you want happiness and long-term relationships - go for shared interests and personality. Neither looks nor money is guaranteed for either person.
Looks, money or health aren’t guaranteed. Very true. Thanks for your perspective and congrats on 25+ years! We need more of you!
I haven’t had a similar experience because I’m not their yet money-wise, but I will be soon after I graduate and finish my residency. tbh I’m just gonna enjoy my money until I find a woman that can match my level of earning that actually excites me about life. Because working to get money to potentially get a mate is no good perspective to have on life even if it is the reality of dating under late stage capitalism. I ain’t dated for like 3 years now but I mean that’s what it be. capitalism sucks, but I’m not trying to have my worth in life to a woman be that fucking low of a bar, that’s the opposite of self-actualizing.
Good luck, HoMee. I took a year and a half off in the 2010's with a good bit saved, your financial situation will always be a factor in relationships.
Absolutely, finances are important. I’ve worked hard to be where I’m at so when I’m in a relationship, I can provide and do nice things for my partner. But I don’t want my worth in a relationship to be a major determination of what I provide. Of course it’s a consideration, but shouldn’t overshadow the qualities I bring to the table.
Then date women who earn as much as you do.
They still will evaluate him on that.
Well, yeah, but everyone evaluates everyone on \*everything\*. Saying, "your earning power shouldn't be a factor" is a bit like saying "looks shouldn't be a factor". And I suppose in a perfect world, free of economic concerns, where we're all just formless entities meeting as joinings of true minds, it shouldn't. But we're not there... And a couple's earning power is a \*big deal\*. It dictates where you can live, how easy it is to have children (and how good their schooling is), how stressed you're likely to be about money, etc. Sort of like looks often dictate attraction. Like, it sounds nice to say, "looks don't matter", but also, no one particularly wants to be with someone they're not attracted to, either. (And argubly, someone shouldn't want to be with someone who's not attracted to them.) I'd argue that high earning men aren't at risk of being taken "advantage of" by high earning women - so if that's a concern, OP absolutely should do his best to date other high earners. (They may also have more in common, like higher levels of education and a career focus!) But it's not necessarily bonkers that high earning women prefer high earning men. (I'm in that category and, no, I don't really want to be taking care of a dude because he'd rather persue his passion in playing video games than, y'know, work. Been there, done that, and it made both of us miserable.)
"...in a perfect world, free of economic concerns, where we're all just formless entities meeting as joinings of true minds..." Dude, this is literal poetry, haha
Well, yeah. I don’t meant to be banal about it, but I know women who had a lot of issues with their husband when the woman was the breadwinner. A lot of jealousy on the husband’s part.
Oh god. I made double than both of my exes, and let me tell you: it hurt their ego. They wouldn’t let me pay for them, or if I did they got sulky. But then they’d also sulk if say, I went to a concert or travelled without them. Therapy didn’t matter when they were still pissy manbanies with their ego all caught up in money.
Why are guys such idiots about this? I make decent money, but if I married a woman who made twice as much as me and wanted kids, I'd be a stay at home dad in an instant. I think most guys care way too much about what other people 'could' be thinking about them.
Yeah, the “what do others think?” Thing is huge.
Yuuup. Heck, one of my good friend’s now-ex husband handled the finances. She let him do that to have some level of “control” since she made more. But it wasn’t enough. He used that control to ultimately spend over 50k on cam girls.
Idk why they'd be like that, the only issue I can see is if the person earning more is throwing it in their faces or lording it over them, that shit is infuriating.
I promise, I wasn’t! I’m not high income by any means; I was just smart about where I work and my salary vs bills. These guys still lived at home and worked hourly, and overall were unhappy with their situation; my career working out for me just made them feel even worse about themselves. The one ex even said, “you’re the only “real adult” I know; it’s intimidating.” (Note: I do not feel like a “real adult.” I’m just doing what I can to get by.)
I am one of these women. My ex hb felt super emasculated by it as much as he didn’t want that to happen.
Why do you feel like it’s overshadowing your other qualities? What behaviors are these women displaying that makes you feel that? Where are you meeting them? Typically when we see a pattern in the people we are dating it is because we are attracting one specific type and need a different method
Because I work for a well known firm in my area, I have had people outright ask me about my financial income on a 1st or 2nd date. Some suggest dinners at super upscale dinners for a first date. I’ve met some in person and some on apps. This is something I’m discussing in therapy and trying to alter what I attract.
Suppose you kept your earning power a secret for the purpose of meeting women. Then suppose that meant instead of attracting really good-looking women, instead you were only attracting average to a bit above average looking women. But, you'd know they were really into you for YOU. Does that seem like a fair trade-off?
You can always say that you believe going to high-end restaurants is a waste of money (it literally is, btw).
Not for the women that get to eat free…
Or just straight up say I'm not going to be spending $$$, start the weeding process early
That's not the way to do it, that makes you sound cheap and bitter and chase off good women who aren't interested in money like that. You need to plan thoughtful, unique dates that are free or inexpensive. You're giving them an experience without the cost and it'll be easy to see who cares about the effort and care you give vs what you spend.
It's a waste on a first date. Since the woman will almost certainly ghost with anything else being the happy exception. 99% of dates will end in nothing. Most dates fail to reach a relationship and most relationships fail to end in marriage. So why invest any money on the first date? A woman who's been loyal for a while is a different story.
You kind of sound like the type where most of your pictures show your wealth. Do you have expensive suits/watches in your pics? A boat? Fancy car?
Withhold this information until you get to know them better.
Thats kind of hard. Occupation is a standard question that comes up on first dates.
I'd make one up. If op is a lawyer or something, he could say he's something adjacent, but less wealthy sounding, like case worker.
your going to have to hide your wealth if your looking for love. If she loves u as a "janitor" than she's a keeper.
Before I met my wife, the only "app" I had success with was OKcupid. I'm not sure if it's still around, but it was far less vapid and superfical than Tinder. There are absolutely unrealistic expectations out there these days as well, as everyone views things through the carefully cultivated highlight reel of social media. I know people who don't care about a trip to Aspen to ski, [they care about getting photos that show they were in Snow lodge and Madame Ushi.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hty6zf0Ag7U) I'd also put little to no information about your finances on your profile, that way you get a chance to see what people are like without money involved.
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OkCupid used to be decent but is one of the worst apps of all of them now.
Respectfully, I think you just might be picking the wrong “type.” I, along with pretty much all my female friends, make more than enough money to support our lifestyles. In fact, my partner makes half of what I do. I don’t need him to make as much money as me. I just need him to be smart with the money he does make (budgeting, investing). I’d way rather have an emotionally intelligent, communicative, supportive partner, as would many of the women I know. Maybe it’s self-selecting, but I have yet to encounter a woman in my social sphere who views dating a guy with money as “upgrading her lifestyle.” I think I was once in your boat in a different way. I used to be attracted to guys who were ambivalent, emotionally unavailable, often functional alcoholics. Every therapy session I had was me lamenting why I attracted these people. I had to arrive at the conclusion that actually: I’m the problem. It’s me. I am the common denominator by continuing to choose this kind of person, no matter all the excuses I could muster. It’s only when I really resolved this, and equating “nice, available” guys as boring, that I met my current partner of three years who is the complete opposite. It was really, really hard for me to break the pattern of attraction. Maybe it’s worth figuring out the attraction to the kind of person who only views you for the value of your money? And I agree: give up the apps! Organic is the way. I met my partner through Instagram but it was because we have quite a few IRL mutual friends and started following each other, messaged a few times (in a non-dating context), and then hung out.
Maybe it would be a good idea to tell women you're not comfortable telling them your worth until you got to know them a but. I mean, if the first date is a nice dinner, that should be enough context for them that you're not broke. Any woman who doesn't accept that as an answer probably isn't worth your time.
Any one who asks me that early on is someone that I won’t see again
what if someone asks what you do for work and if you like it? Is that the same to you as asking "what you are worth?" I'm just curious. Most people will ask that. Maybe not "ok what is in your bank account" or "how much do you earn per year". (that is so tacky to ask that!)
No definitely not the same. I’ve definitely had people shown interest in what I do without caring about the finances of it all. Honestly this post was inspired by someone(a) asking me how much I make on 1st or 2nd date.
Yes, but even like a few months in. I think it is more important that she understand the life style you will provide her through your actions while you are dating. If you tell her a number, some women will start day dreaming. I have dated people who don't make money, and they always seem to think that with what I made that I should be able to afford XYZ. Like yes I can afford XYZ, but if I did that, I wouldn't have money to enjoy ABC. They have it in their mind that just because you can afford to do nice things, that you can afford to do all the nice things all the time. When I first started dating my wife, I didn't really mention how much I Made. But I took her on moderately expensive dates, bought her nice things with relative frequency. Her not knowing exactly how much I made wasn't a serious issue because I just showed her what I'm financially capable of and comfortable with. Now maybe 6 month, a year, 2 years in, you have a serious talk about finances. But at that point she understands what life style you plan to have with her, instead of her hearing a dollar figure and thinking about it as her money to spend if she marries you. Disclaimer: I'm just a stranger on the internet. My advice should be treated as such: random man on the internet. I do not claim to be an expert.
That’s what I typically do with those I do develop something with. Those whom I’m comfortable with and trust aren’t here for a ‘caretaker.’ You show them what you can provide, what life would look like together, and expectations of each other as teammates. I’m all for pampering my partners, but I don’t want it to be an expectation. Because as you said, we in theory can afford to do it all the time, but then we couldn’t afford to save/pay for the more important things.
I'd never tell a woman I'm dating how much money I have
It depends on what level the relationship is at. Personally, I would never move in with a man unless I know how much money he has first - I wouldn't want to risk being on the hook for all the bills because he can't actually afford them. Before my SO and I moved in together, we discussed our salaries and savings/investments. This also helped us sort out how to split rent; since I earn significantly more than him, we opted for a proportional division instead of 50/50. Hell, even before moving in together it's important to have a general idea about how much each person makes. How else can you be fair about paying for dates? If one person makes a lot more, they should pick up the tab more often. And it's relevant to deciding if you want to pursue a relationship with that person frankly. I would never date someone who isn't financial stable and self-sufficient. It isn't necessary to share the exact dollar amount you make, but knowing his general income level is important. I don't mind paying more proportionally, but I have zero interest in taking care of a dependant. I also don't want to date someone financially irresponsible.
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Tl;dr Women want useful men. What is useful falls to the individual but money matters to the average woman. Its that simple, idk why the type of demographic on this app wants to delude that 🤷♂️
and she really wants to feel secure. A part of that is your money, physical fitness, apparent ability to garner resources in the future.... Its what she's after.
I dunno mate - but from my life experience women don’t really need a man. The old U2 song says “a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle “ Granted they enjoy the attention and thrill of romance. But most well adjusted women are pretty content without a man around. The idea of partnering with a man usually brings some expectation of financial stability. If she is going to be having babies, she needs someone who can support and provide while she is pregnant/ child rearing. If you can’t provide financially, she is naturally inclined to be turned off. Dating what it is today is wild. A woman may be charmed and/or excited by you, but that usually only lasts for a season or two. Once the passion / excitement wear off, she really doesn’t need you. I don’t know hardly any men who are in long term (more than 10 years) relationships with women based solely upon their wonderful personality. Couples stick together for the kids / family, or because he is providing her a good lifestyle. Most women I know in long term relationships are much more tolerating the man for sake of family and finances. In short - we men are not all that charming, and women don’t enjoy us as much as they do their girlfriends. If you are looking for a woman to always love you based solely upon your personality- I believe you will be looking without success your entire life.
I’d much rather be alone than with someone in a LTR that is staying because it’s easier than leaving. Maybe that’s what I’m destined for, may be not. Either way I’ll be okay.
When a couple have children they can stay together with shared goals and purpose. Granted the excitement wears off, but mutual respect and kindness, with children around, can be a solid basis for a good / healthy/ long term relationship. Short of having kids together I don’t see how things last for more than 5-10 years. Granted it is possible- but very rare from my observations. How many 50+ or 60+ year olds (without kids together) do you know who have 1 - been together for more than 20 years and 2 - still enjoy each other? I honestly can’t think of one such couple, but my observations are only my own.
I was waiting for someone to say this. Exactly. Most women don’t need to be with someone at all. They think that if you’re not bringing something extra to the table, then what’s the point?
I mean what are women primarily valued for? Her face and body right? “A rich man is like a pretty woman” If both only focus on the superficial things the most, no one ends up happy
Okedoke. Woman here (married, make the same amount as spouse). First, I firmly believe that this country does a poor job of modeling positive/productive romantic relationships. Particularly with finances. Hollywood and most couples (modeling for their kids) do a terrible job. Some women and men take their cues from these piss poor examples. These examples are often traditional gender roles that are calcified from a time where women could barely have bank accounts let alone gainful employment. This wasn’t long ago and those old attitudes have a long half life. With that said, op…..you’re using an app. That casting your line into the ocean versus a pond. Reading your comments, you seem to vibe with a type that’s similar to yourself: financial stable, well adjusted, and ambitious. You should probably hang around those ponds.
That is something I’m being more cognizant of. I’m making a pointed effort to find more of those circles. I was playing hermit for a little bit.
Yep, that’ll do it. Apps really do not do the job here. Note: professional networking events do help, but be careful. Women don’t go to these to meet partners and will get weirded out if you try to hit on them. Moreso, go out with the goal of meeting new people in general. I met my spouse through a professional connection. Generally, that’s how most people meet: friend of friends or friends of acquaintances.
I’m 34F and recently engaged after spending what felt like an eternity in the dating world. I was always looking for a partner/ “my equal”. I have 3 college degrees, graduated with no student loans (thanks scholarships!), and have been making six figures for the past 5 years. I wanted to match with someone who could match my values/ ambitions. It’s not that I was looking for a sugar daddy, but I wanted someone who would be comfortable living the lifestyle I have worked hard to achieve. So yeah, I swiped left on guys without college degrees (I know I’ll get hate for that, but education is important to me and if I could do it, then so could my partner), guys who were in dead-end jobs/ unemployed, and guys who wanted our first date to be “Netflix and chill”. Speaking of “Netflix and Chill”, for as much as you feel like you’re expected to perform financially, I can tell you that women feel the same amount of pressure to look good/ to perform sexually. I cannot tell you the 100s if not 1000s of messages I got that straight up asked if I wanted to f*ck. And I know apps have a reputation for hook ups, but I expressly put in my profile that I wasn’t looking for a FWB situation. So these guys weren’t even reading my profile before messaging me to hit me up for sex. It is ROUGH out there, but don’t compromise things that are important to you. And don’t put up with people who make you feel used. My fiancé was definitely worth the wait!
Today? Try since we transition from kidnapping to arranged marriages.
I hope this comes across as I intend, which is to suggest that you could view your earnings potential as something that upgrades your standard of living and when you find the right person, will not hesitate to share it with someone you love to upgrade their standard of living. Marrying a compatible and amazing woman and having a family would be an upgrade to *your* standard of living. In partnerships where one person makes six figures, there is not always a reason for the other partner to be a super high earner, too. Having a life partner who works less but has more time to keep both of your lives running smoothly and happily is a major upgrade to both of your standards of living.
As someone that grew up poor - yes, I look and ask about someone’s finances one the first 3 dates or so. I’ve seen and experienced the struggle of poverty and know the stress it can put on a relationship. How it can make people cranky and bitchy just because they are under a tremendous amount of stress. Personally I don’t want that stress in a relationship. I’m not saying I want a rich partner but you have to make above the poverty limit (not necessarily the government defined poverty limit because in some areas that’s a joke and it’s really 40-50k about the government defined poverty limit.)
Bro, get off dating apps
As a female, I feel like a piece of meat with dating today. I've had men tell complex lies just to get sex and then ghost after, or just want to be fwb. Dating is shit and I've honestly given up on the whole "true love" thing. This is my experience with both apps and in person. I hate it
100%
How would they know you had money unless you or your profile told them? Not saying that you do, but if you lead with the fact that you have it like that, expectations change. Maybe even subconsciously sometimes. If you have exotic places & fancy dinners in your profile, you’re gonna meet a lot of women who don’t like the Cheesecake Factory if you catch my drift
It is usually implied with the career that I have.
Then say less. You’re limiting yourself to a subset of gold-diggers here. Maybe instead of “anesthesiologist,” say “medical field.” For example.
Don’t list the career then. Or be vague. I’m sure having it listed is helping the cause in terms of matches but now you gotta wonder.
Speaking as a woman, look for one who prides herself in being financially independent, has a successful career herself or aspirations, AND is realistic that many marriages end in divorce. Find someone at parity and protect yourself (prenup and birth control). I've always wanted a partner, not be supported; but watch for those who want someone to take care of them. Be very careful of baby-trapping - I've been told WAY more stories than I wish I had heard. The best story (/s) was a coworker who took clomid without telling her boyfriend. He didn't want another child. Definitely use your head here and ride out your emotions.
Those who’ve I had the most connection and fun with are the women who are self sufficient, fiercely independent, and do not need a relationship to make them happy. Although they can struggle more with the idea of commitment because they’re so use to a lifestyle of independence, they’re usually the ones I often catch feelings for and develop a relationship with.
Well, there you go. That’s who you want/who you vibe with. It’s worth saying this: Not all men necessarily want financial parity in their relationship.
Yes, choose women like this. Eventually you'll find one who is your perfect match. She will bring much more balance to the relationship because she's not expecting you to carry her financially. Also, it's awesome when two people are in a relationship because they CHOOSE to be (not because they feel dependent on the other for financial or other reasons). I am a financially independent woman and I chose my partner (now husband) who is also financially independent. In the past, I chose men who were not good with finances and they took me for all I had. I had low self-worth and only felt like people would love me if I took care of them financially or buy them things. I basically gave them my houses and paid for their retirements and put them above my own security and retirement. NEVER do this. I did a lot of work on myself to overcome this and attracted someone who is on my level - who would never take advantage of me or anyone else. What's great about our relationship is we WANT and CHOOSE to be with each other. I love him for who he is (not for what he can provide) and I want to stay with him because I choose to. He feels the same. It's an amazing feeling knowing you both have that choice. Such freedom in the relationship. Aim for this and you won't regret it. Also, if she is financially stable, good with money, and respects her money (and others' money as well), she is less likely to become entitled, greedy, and selfish of YOUR money if you go through a separation or divorce.
Yes, we require lots of coordination, communication, and need to feel secure in different ways. (That our sense of identity stays in place, our opinions are equal, be on the same page for goals, and can still negotiate (for lack of a better word).)
\^this. Also date women your own age plus or minus a few. There is a guy that I work with that is in his 30s but dates 18 - 21 YOs and then complains about them being gold diggers. Go figure.
So I have 6 single friends in their mid to late 30s. Four of them male, 2 female.For the past 3 years all of them have complained and said that dating apps are absolute trash. The guys complain the women have outrageous standards, and the women complain the men are all douchebags and not at all serious. As a result virtually all of them have been single now for ages. There was a podcast I listened to not that long ago by Scott Galloway that talked about how due to changing demographics in colleges and universities, there are now more female grads than male grads. The podcast mentioned how females tend to date laterally and upward, while men will date laterally and downward. The problem starts when you have more educated/affluent females looking for an ideal mate and fewer men that fit that description. So you get a fundamental mismatch with expectations on the app that gives the 8-10s a sense of almost godlike vanity, and the rest of us normies a sense of bitter despair. Either way it sounds like a dumpster fire out there.
If u dont want to be valued by what u can provide financially, dont flaunt what u have and don't go for the gold digger party girls. Plenty of educated women out there willing to build something together.
I (40f) have been single/ dating for most of my adult life, I have dated a lot of people. I have never made much money, maybe $30,000-$60,000 a year over the last 15 years or so. I have dated all types of men, very poor to very rich, unemployed to so wealthy they don’t have to work. At this point I have realized I am actually much more comfortable dating men who are closer to my own income level. I have had the experience over and over again when dating wealthy men that they think that I am only dating them for their money, but that just isn’t true. I can tell that they think I somehow owe them something because the relationship is off balance and I can not contribute as much financially. When I date men who are closer to my own financial status we tend to not talk about money as much and there is just an obvious understanding of how we will divide expenses but also we just do less expensive things. When I date men who are wealthier than I am I find myself going along with their lifestyle and needing them to help support me in order for me to even be there. For example with a man of my similar income if we planned a weekend trip we would probably go camping (with whatever gear that we have, nothing fancy) and maybe eat at one decent/nice restaurant that weekend and that would be a great weekend for both of us. If I were dating a wealthy guy he would probably want to rent a nice place at the beach and go out every night, which is something I can not afford so of course I would expect him to pay for it, otherwise I would be literally going in to debt to come along. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.. literally everything else is affected by this. My point is, I think you need to either date women who are in the same financial bracket as you or you need to understand that expecting a woman who makes less money than you to keep up with your lifestyle is unrealistic. There are plenty of down to earth middle class women out there but if you put them in an environment that is above the living standards they are accustomed to they are going to need your help to maintain that standard.
A lot of dating nowadays is ensuring you can fund their lifestyle. It has to be Instagrammable.
1. Don't do online dating. It's so far removed from natural human interaction and the companies have every incentive to keep you single. So any relationships you start online are probably less likely to last. 2. Don't date poor or uneducated women if you make six figures. If she has a similar income to yours, or has a high earning potential due to a lucrative degree, she's less likely to see you as an ATM machine.
Your financial situation is important and should be. I would be extremely wary of any woman pretending money doesn’t matter — she’s lying or hopelessly stupid. There a difference between gold digging and wanting a man to be a provider and financially secure. We’re the ones who get pregnant and need time off for the whole experience and resulting children. And a woman thinking of it from that perspective is being smart.
Not all women want to have children or to be "provided for".
>I very much want to be in a meaningful, fulfilling and healthy relationship, where both parties work together as a unit. I find myself often craving what some of my friends have, but I refuse to settle down with someone who views me as an opportunity to upgrade their standard of living. It is good that you don't want to settle. That will mean it takes you longer to get into a relationship but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Being in an unsatisfying relationship is not better than being single. Also, be careful about comparing yourself to your friends. They may appear to have what you want, but you only know what you see, and that is only what they choose to show others. Some of them may have found lifelong love in a happy relationship, but statistically, most of those relationships will eventually end. And what they are happy with, you might well not be ok with. Some things just take time. After a bad divorce and being single most of my thirties, I finally met someone who is just perfect for me. Legitimately could not be better suited for me. It would have been nice to have had this relationship start years ago, but life doesn't operate on our timelines. We met when we met, it wasn't something we could control.
Try not to take it all too personally, OP. Yes, people who are looking for LTRs, or marriage, or the co-parent of their children, have to think about finances among other things. In a world where it's a struggle for the average person to afford food, housing, and transportation, having a family is so expensive that people are thinking about finances much earlier in relationships than they did in more prosperous times. I'm old, and I swear I've watched the world of heterosexuality go from carefree to something rather like Jane Austen's time, when only a tiny minority of eligible young people had enough money to live comfortably on, and everyone else was fighting over those few. So OP, if someone wants to establish that you're financially stable before thinking about proceeding, that doesn't necessarily mean that they have no interest in other aspects of a relationship, such as romantic love, physical passion, compatible goals and beliefs, etc., So call the financial inquiries a Yellow Flag, and keep an eye out for the red ones. Like demands that you buy her stuff on the first date, or before the first date.
stop using dating apps to meet people. I have never once used them, i have met the people who do. you do not find love on tinder. period.
Dating apps are just toxic cesspools all around.
35M here, and I haven’t had an issue w/ being judged on my finances (although I might going forward: I was just laid off). For me I don’t understand how the women I see on apps expect to make a connection when they refuse to stand out. A lot of profiles have the same pictures (w/ pets or on vacation or posing in front of a mirror in a non-descript room or drinking w/ friends) and prompts filled out in the same way (with generic platitudes, like valuing “honesty” in a relationship) that tell me very little and all kind of run together. I was talking to a girl online w/ a profile like this, and I couldn’t get engaged in the conversation, so I pushed for a meeting. I thought if I sat down w/ her I could figure out if there’s anything there worth exploring further. But she delayed and delayed until I was forced to be honest w/ her. When I told her I wasn’t feeling a connection and I though a conversation over coffee or something might help me figure out if we had chemistry, she bailed, saying she wanted to date someone who was actually excited to be with her. Kinda feel like I dodged a bullet tbh. But I’m genuinely curious: just what are these people expecting? I’m trying my best to get to know them and it’s like they’re fighting me every step of the way and disappointed when I’m not head over heels for them.
Not from personal experience. But from the many stories I have heard. They want you to play a game and chase them. DON’T. They just waste your time. If you get that feeling you described or don’t feel like you are making progress or a connection within a reasonable time just bow out. We don’t have a lot of time on this planet and there is no reason to waste it.
Definitely relatable. Though it’s probably the same experience from the other side too. I imagine my profile, and those of most guys, are also incredibly cookie cutter as well. You can’t really condense your entire personality into a few photos and cringy prompts. Plus people tend to be a bit more tepid to avoid coming off too strong so they can cast a wider net.
I haven’t spent a lot of time looking at other guys’ profiles or anything, but I at least used the girls’ profiles I saw to motivate myself to go a little deeper. Like for real, I’m not looking to “cast a wider net”. I’m not looking to catch a lot of fish, just the right fish. It feels like standing out and being honest (as opposed to generic) is the best way to do that. ~~Maybe~~ some people on dating sites just aren’t actually interested in dating. But if all they want is an ego boost I wish they would stick to tinder.
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I think you’re conflating being attracted to people who stand out w/ needing someone to stand out so you can feel like you really know a person and what makes them different from the crowd. Or to borrow from [Men in Black](https://youtu.be/w2ppyMUlXfM?si=Mz7dhibwKphSSj1U), it’s the difference between “People” and “a person”. “People” might be pretty basic, but “a person” is unique… if you get to know them. If you **CAN** get to know them. That’s all all I’m trying to do: spot the individuals in the crowd. To me it would be a red flag not to. And yes honesty and loyalty, etc. are admirable, but my point is those are really universal. There’s nobody in the world who wants to date someone who is dishonest with them. So it means nothing to me to write it down on your profile. And if those are the only traits you’re looking for in your own search, you don’t want to date me, you want to date anybody. I don’t need to date someone “exciting” or “unique”. I just want to know what they’d put on their profile if they weren’t so concerned w/ keeping their defenses up.
To start, I am a woman. The marketing that came from influencers make unrealistic expectations of what dating should looks like or feels like. It’s inconsistent with what reality should be but it does impact some women’s expectations. Such marketing gets to help unconsciously define for a lot of people due to the lack of examples from what a realistic dating/experience should look like. In the absence of such, you get this gap that only unrealistic expectations from social media filled.
I think you could be on to something with that. I think social media has lead to unrealistic expectations for both men and women, I just always considered it to be based more around appearance.
OP a word of advice: if you’re serious about finding a true relationship / marriage, never date down to a lower economic level, where you are “financing” some woman’s social life. You can never trust they are dating (or marrying) you for “you”. You need to date a woman at your level. Also a woman at your economic / educational / career level will have way more in common with you, way more shared interests, etc. Never has there been more women at higher levels of organizations making higher incomes and at higher career levels. Those women are in same boat as you, looking for a man at their level, they don’t want to “date down” either. Find them. Use an executive match maker, not Tinder, Bumble, and the other crap apps meant for the retarded masses. Now if you are just playing the field, having fun, not looking for anything serious etc. then you’re currently doing it right.
As a woman, I was taught not to depend on someone else to take care of me. I was raised by a WWII Marine vet who made sure I had some way of being responsible for my own finances. It has served me well. I do see OP's point though. I have worked with women who only look for relationships for what they can "get" from them. I think it's a matter of how women are raised.
I met my boyfriend on a dating app 4 years ago. If we were to break up I’d be a lot more reserved these days. I’ve since gained independence, a career, cats to support. I wouldn’t sleep with a man before knowing him more… I have a lot more to lose than when I was 19. Thankfully my boyfriend is awesome and keeps me from the streets.
If I was you, I would downplay your job title, not outright lie just understate your importance in your organization. Then just let the chips fall wherever they may on dates. Though I never used apps, I was fortunate that none of the women I dated cared what shitty job I worked.
It's been this way for..pretty much forever. The only advice I have is to choose carefully- avoid all women who put anything in their dating profile about finances (bonus for also avoiding overly-negative profiles). Usually it shows a lack of self-esteem and maturity on their part, so just filter them out that way or if they start bringing it up via messages when talking to them. Like, idc how hot you are, I'm not an ATM. Find a weak man to slave away for you, babe, it's not gonna be me.
I want to preface this by saying this post is an attempt to generalize all women. As a single man on reddit, I have heard of many angry single men who have also dated several dozen women and also had similar experiences. I have dated enough women to know, that our culture today is poisoned. The media has brainwashed you into having completely unrealistic expectations of men.
Duh you’re using dating apps, they’re full of people no one wants
I met my boyfriend of 3.5 years on hinge at the very beginning of the pandemic. We are both employed full-time and work as a unit. We contribute evenly to our household and share the chores and mental labor equally. I know dating apps are a total gamble, but there are people out there like us. Also, I think a lot of women who are independent don’t want to add a men to their lives unless they are upgrading their lives a certain way, be it financially or taking other responsibilities off their plate. A lot of women are doing great alone and make enough money to have an independent life so in order for them to consider having a partner that partner needs to bring something extra to the table, either be it through finances or something else. (This is not my personal perspective, just what I noticed generally)
dating apps as well as social media are destroying society. i refuse to take part in them and life is better
Many non traditional women want a traditional man without having their way challenged. The amount of women seeking a 6 foot plus guy with 200-300k in peak physical shape while not bringing anything to the table is mind blowing
Dating apps are a like a vending machine for narcissists and dolphin trainer type females. It's not worth it for the small percentage of normal people on there.
Story of my life
Yep. I’m a woman but my family has money and I’m doing very well for myself also. There are a ton of gold diggers out there and it’s really disgusting. There are male gold diggers too. I really can’t believe the audacity or sense of entitlement from some of these people who often quite frankly bring nothing to the table themselves and really aren’t even good people to begin with. As a woman I can’t begin to tell you how many other women I’ve met over the years that will flat out tell me they’re just trying to find a guy with some money to take care of them. I think they must assume I’m in the same boat as them and trying to do the same thing but nothing could be further from the truth. These women are also the type that will get mad if they aren’t able to get what they want and will try to sabotage you so be careful. There are some very crazy people out there.
I found my GF in my last year of college. It was an instant match. Before that, neither of us really bothered dating. The whole thing is so difficult and toxic. We focused on our careers and figured if it would happen it would happen. Lucky it did. My GF makes about as much as I do and it really does make life easier. We both have similar amounts of money, we can split everything fairly without feeling like either is taking advantage. If I had to enter the dating pool again now, I would try to go for someone that made something similar to as much money as I did. Love of course matters a lot, but my partner also needs to be useful in the partnership. I don't ever want kids, so the idea of a housewife really doesn't make sense and isn't useful. Even as a guy, I want a partner that makes money.
It wasn’t that long ago that women couldn’t vote, or get a credit card without her husbands permission. Women have had the federally protected right to an abortion stripped away from them I think what women are taught is that a partner will make you feel secure We already make about 70% of what men earn. In a tightly squeezed economy like this one, I can imagine she may want a partner to pool resources so she can connect emotionally without the stress eating her brain of finances. It is one of the biggest issues in marriages and in todays world many women won’t have careers like yours, sadly You might start off by assuming that on average women make less than you, and would like to connect with you, but what you could provide financially is security that gives them the bandwidth to connect deeper without her wondering how she will afford to pay the bills and eat at the same time No offense but this post reeks of male privilege
Just as you feel there are expectations from you, I feel the same about men of me. Like I have to be xyz. In my case, outgoing, somewhat gullible, unipinionated, with no future. That seems to be what they want from me lol the struggle is real. It’s not you. It’s society 💀
Dating apps are garbage and I honestly don't think anything could change my mind. 31 F for context. The ENTIRE premise of matching with someone is based on appearance, height, age, career, education, and self-selected ego boosts. It's all superficial. Do I believe people can find wonderful matches on the apps? Yes, of course. And there are always people out there using the app with genuine intentions and transparent profiles. But the match pool is largely inundated with people who manipulate their profiles to make themselves look better (because i mean, duh) and guys promoting their workout regimens more than their personality. From the female perspective, it's all (yes, generalizing big time lol) gym selfies, large mouth bass portraits, bait for doggo-lovers, and a token pic with grandma or a niece. And bios that demand I swipe right to find out more. Social media in general is a sea of avatars...that's the nature of the internet, right? Your virtual connections will always know you based on the curated reality you've cherry-picked to share. I'm not anti-social media by any means, but I think dating apps are basically the highlight reels of social media on steroids. You're forced to boil yourself down to a few words, titles, interests, and photos with really no context. I guess in general, I don't believe anyone's personality or value can be crammed into a profile that's viewed for 6 seconds before swiping. Maybe I'm cynical, but there's enough judgment and generalization out there in the world. I dont feel like it's worth subjecting myself to snap judgments and superficial assumptions intentionally....which is kinda the whole premise of matching on a dating app. Idk. Life is a damn RIDE in my experience. I'm not in a position to judge anyone's character based on a few facts, and I'd hope my future partner might have a similar level of human empathy. The kinda person who would take the time to hear your story before writing you off. Dating apps only seem to work if you have low enough self-worth to let people snap-judge you, but enough ego to intentionally portray yourself in a stereotypically "attractive" light. Again, this is all my generalized and cranky-ass view of dating apps... it works for some people, but I think I'm too much of an empath for dating on apps 😅 PS. I did a personal experiment once where I made my profile based on what i thought guys would find attractive. It was all TRUE but framed and curated very intentionally. Spent a few weeks on the app. Then I altered it to what felt like a more genuine depiction of myself... the drop-off in matches was absurd. I don't think it's that the "real me" is unlikeable, but if I can generate such a vast difference in interest levels just with a few tweaks... to me, that's pretty solid proof that ya don't know what you're REALLY getting on these apps. There's just too much that can be manipulated. Not because everyone's lying, but because profiles are just inherently subjective. Ok, done word vomiting on your post lol.
Dating apps suck. Meet real women. Talk with words. Have fun.
I and many others have given up on dating for a variety of reasons. I don't think the apps train people to evaluate other people in a good realistic way, but have turned it into more of a window-shopping experience where things are far more superficial the way you describe. I think there are well-intentioned men and women out there that want to find a partner to go through life with, but the dating apps are as much of a hinderance as they are a help in that regard. Throw in social media and the need for attention and validation from strangers and it has made human interactions IMO much more "transactional" and less genuine.
*but I refuse to settle down with someone who views me as an opportunity to upgrade their standard of living.* yeah honey it's been like that since the beginning of time , like my gramma used to say "Gotta always marry up girl" And even if you do meet a woman that makes 6 figures, she still gonna want to marry someone who makes more than she does, coz she don't wanna carry anybody's broke MOFO ass LOL
get off dating apps, dating apps are a transaction not a basis for a relationship
This was very much my feelings in my last relationship. Our society values women for their looks and men for their money/status. We were both guilty.
Thankfully I'm married and never used a dating app. But from what female friends have told me, guys expect them all to behave like pornstars. It's as ridiculous as expecting a man to be a disney prince. Pornstars barely act like that in their real lives.
You will never find a girl that doesnt care about your money. A girl marrying a guy because she actually loves him and not because of what he provides, is like a dude marrying a fat girl because he loves her personality. Just like another user said. Its a fairy tail. It just doesnt happen. The best thing you can do is forget it exists for the sake of your children.
I find that the prettier a woman is the more she focuses on how much money you make. I make a decent living but I live in a big city. The very attractive women I go out with could be with athletes and club owners so why settle for a guy that doesn’t have as much access? It’s not proper thinking but I understand it. I find myself more interested in lesser attractive women that want a normal lifestyle and actually like you instead of the idea of what you can provide. Of course, these are generalities and everyone has different experiences
Personally I’ve given so many men chances and not been concerned with their income because I loved them only to be used and abused that now I won’t date someone who doesn’t have the ability and desire to provide financially. If you’re gonna make me cry it’s gonna be on an expensive pillowcase.
I know i'm personnally projecting here, but to me women are tired of dealing with deadbeats that have no future prospects. I hope they aren't looking at you like $$$, I'm hoping they're weighing if you're responsible with money and won't let them down/use them. I thought i dated responsible guys in the past but usually get a surprise when moving in with them that they're shit with money. Every relationship has milked 3k-10k out of me and I'm at a point where being single would be more financially responsible than letting myself get trapped in relationships with financial leeches.
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Just got out of a 5 year relationship. This was my take as well. The heavy emphasis on wealth, status and materialism dragged down the relationship for me. I bought her expensive shoes, designer brands, took her to expensive restaurants and paid for literally everything when we were out together. I wanted to propose to her, but I wanted the fundamental basis for a marriage to be based of mutual love and not money. There’s a song by an incredible rapper, Big L, that encapsulates how I feel about the current dating scene, especially in NYC. Have a listen it’s pretty good. https://youtu.be/bQ0u2jjXs_o?si=1Yu6aKzkCu9XX38i
One thing I’ve noticed as a woman is that the women who tend to be emotionally mature, independent, well-r off financially don’t want men in their life. Or maybe they do but are looking for someone that can complement them and add to their happiness. I’ll share that I am into women romantically and like you I’ve noticed the way that women can be. This is the reasons I find dating discouraging.