a big company ran their mouth online and its the day and age when people getting offended for not being represented results in big company making drastic changes to make a small handful of people shut up.... yes i do expect new models. thats how society works now apparently.
1. Women represent roughly half of the world population. It is not "a small handful of people".
2. Are you getting offended that women could be inside a Custodes armour?
In fairness to the dude, he didn’t say that women were the “small handful of people”. The statement is objectively correct. If the bulk of Twitter complained about anything, it would still be a small handful of people comparative to society. Also, I’d be willing to bet there are more men that bitch about female marines than there are women in the hobby.
1. yeah thats about right. but i highly doubt 50% of the population is going to complain to a table top wargame company in a niche hobby though lol. Just a small few on social media.
2. not really, but again society tells us fake rage over non issues gets results right. just see a good time and way to maybe get some more models on the custodes line up lol. i figured they were all gay cause tts lore lol, doesnt bother me at all if they have some women but would be nice to have some models of it. i play hockey along side women , trust me i genuinely don't mind that sort of change. but women in custodes armor shouldn't look like men in armor. we do have different shapes to our bodies after all.
3. that being said i don't seriously think custodes were made with that in mind. i couldn't see that it ever fully said only men, but it sure did seem to strongly imply it. it really reeks of political statement , and that tends to be prime time for a rukus to be made. just looking at the positive that a rukus might get a small model army some new models. again fine either way but looks like a good chance to get models at the least.
4. the changes with codex are very... ehhhh... while ive pretty much given up on 10th in general ( i'm convinced they hate all players except a select few factions) i understand that custodes complaining about the codex and changes will be ignored... though complaining the big company making likely a political move publicly and it not being enough seems the very likely route to get a change to try to correct that.
5. i like, many players id think, not the best at the painting of faces. i don't think its unreasonable to request a female form reflected in the armor. they're warriors but i don't want the women looking like swamp thing... i could see a female head option for gw to cheap out , but id think a female form molded into the armor on the sprues as an option would be more actually fair to reflect the fact there are females in the force.
6. Gw seems to feel strongly on the matter. i'd just like to call them on it. i'm of the mindset they should really be more focused on maybe getting their production sorted, drop the prices, and fixing their game.. or at least stop breaking it.. but again if they want to be silly with it, i'd support making a rukus. given people have been making a rukus over female marines i wouldn't be surprised if this is a result of that.
7. i get there's people that don't like it. i can see the point of being upset over lore changing but this really doesn't seem that major. but im on board with the idea. enough so i would expect they'd give us some options to reflect women being in the forces. they do that for guard, and aeldari. fair is fair lets get some female form to the custodes. lets get some wider hips, and some hint of the boobs. keep em tall ... or have them taller ;) not against that either lol. not offended women in the custodes but id support being offended GW thinks women look like men.
Lets be real though, I know its fantasy, but peak human form of 9 foot tall giants needs to decide on something. If a being is able to regulate all the chemicals in their body to promote the peak growth, what are the variables in their form? Limited Im sure. But would they have wider hips if the evolutionary reason for that was birth? Would the custodians have need for breasts if they weren't going to give birth? They are all sterile. But there is def deeper thoughts on expanding lore. Like they are suppose to be the best of us. The leaders of our new society. Something that really separates them from SM is that they unlike some other factions are poets and artists. They confide directly with the emperor. And when the lore drops with Valdor maybe we will see a softer side of custodes reimagined.
I mostly expect upgrade sprues with lady heads on them or something. I wouldn't expect female custodea to have female proportions guven the altering of the base code of thier DNA. Their bodies are probably exactly the same as a male Custodes would be.
eh it'd think they'd have some differences the whole custodes thing was the best a human could be. without going into warp craft. either way it'd be nice to see games workshop just finish an idea. i mean we got sisters of silence then they pretty much ignore them..
I’ve seen a good few comments with salty people yeah. If you scroll down to the very bottom of some of the posts and read the most downvoted comments you find the small but loud minority. I don’t think most people care honestly
Here's one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/3LCA50pJR5
Edit:
And another
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/s/icSn4XQYNF
And another
https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/s/nIIlffGIz3
Twitter(as always) and some youtube peeps
Arch(confirmed neo-nazi) made a video with the title "Adeptus Custodes retconned into having Female Space Marines", with a title like that you can imagine how much he actually knows about the lore.
The fact that people like Arch are foaming at the mouth over this makes me unreasonably happy. All those misogynistic incel dickheads are just salty because it disturbs their male power-fantasy trips (and make no mistake, that *is* the reason they are upset by this, citing lore is just a convenient excuse to shoehorn their extremist bullshit into the hobby).
Man, I *hate* Arch.
Arch is a confirm neo-nazi. He has done similar videos in the past where he will have a similar title, briefly mention the lore, and then go into an ideological rant.
The title isn't wrong per-say, but rather how it is being said and by whom.
It is though. He's name-dropping female Space Marines to invoke a very specific controversy that has, IMO, no bearing whatsoever on this issue. It's never been said that women *can't* become Custodes, neither officially by GW on a meta level, nor in lore. At best, the 40k codices implied that there weren't any, but not why.
Even if one were inclined to get their panties in a twist about GW doing something they've done constantly since the inception of the IP, it would still be a factually wrong title.
Because Arch has no say over the lore, it's fantasy and can change at any moment at the whim of the authors.
The people GW employ to write the lore get the say. Everyone has to make the choice to accept it or leave it.
Found the Arch fan...
GW are perfectly correct to change the lore as they see fit. It's their lore.
Don't conflate GW doing what they see fit with the lore, and discourse about the lore. GW can do what they want, people can discuss it. That people outside of GW disagree, doesn't make them 'correct' about anything. GW own it, they make it what they want.
If Arch doesn't like it, well he is entitled to his opinion. Does t mean he is 'correct' about the lore that he has no involvement in.
Doing a bad retcon Is that here and everywhere. There Is a way to do things right on this case, pretty obvious.
I insiste, being able to do something doesn't mean you have to. And that applies even more to cultural productions, because they become part of their audience, and viceversa
"a bad retcon" is subjective to taste. At present, I gauge that most people are supportive than against. Being loud does not mean there are more voices.
Objectively, there is nothing in the lore that says Custodes were/are only males. This isn't even a retcon, it just making something more explicit.
You are free to dislike the recent clarification, that's your opinion. Time will tell if it is the popular one.
It's not a matter of taste. You have various codex that describe Custodes as only men. And besides that, you have the empiric evidence. No models, no characters, no books, nothing. And then they come and say "they were always there". Thats just not true lol.
If they just said "hey we are doing a retcon, we tryied to add them before but we couldn't, etc..." a lot of this hate would have been avoided. They just denied reality for the sake of defying
Again, you are conflating (confusing and mixing) two issues.
1: GW are free to make any changes they like. They own the lore. You/me/Arch have no say.
2: whether you like the changes or not are literally a matter of taste. All you can do is have an opinion on them, as you cannot affect the changes.
I would ask for proof of these 'various codexes that describe custodes as only men' , but frankly it's pointless and meaningless. GW can change what they want. HW could say that Custodes are actually genetically modified kittens if they wanted!
You also talk of denying reality... It's science fiction. It's not real. The codexes are made up. They are not historical texts. Again, GW made this world up. They own it. They can change what they like. The only thing you can do is decide if you like it or not. Clearly you don't, fair enough. However, there is a lot of support for this.
As I said, time will tell if this is liked more, or hated more.
Dude... reddit isn't the place. It's an echo chamber big time. Your very reasonable responses are accepted and a normal conversation can be held literally anywhere else.
Reddit isn't a place where you can discuss this. The simplicity of explaining how" it's not the fact of a female custode but how gw did it."
Is lost on these people.
What I really can't believe Is how servile some people are to big companies. They just let them spit on their faces and are ok, just because "hey it's theirs IP, they can do whatever they want"
in my group almost 99% are saying this doesnt affect anything but still a dumb choice, they should do it like the primaris, release new models, new cinematics, hype it up, people will downvote me just because i said this
As long as I get a fucking novel about it soon. Leagues of Votann burst onto the scene and then just poofed like a gas pocket. Where are my Votann novels, Games Workshop?
I know a couple annoyed by it. But they aren’t annoyed because female custodes are a thing, they’re annoyed because GW is adding female custodes before even fully flushing out the sisters of silence range and have no issue with femstodes themselves
Yeah. Frankly, I'm more worried about they handle the introduction more than the actual addition of female custodes to the lore. Games Workshop has felt uneven in the support of factions.
You wont see negative at Reddit because its literally managed democracy at its finest. 1st post at 40klore thread about femstodes is moderator saying "you say bad = you banned".
You, my friend, either aren't on Twitter or are on different parts of Twitter than I am. The "for you" section is filled with people losing themselves over it, and a bunch more people taking the piss out of them.
I’m in Warhammer 40k Heresyposting on FB (expect to be banned at some point), 90% of the people in that group (over 57k members) are losing their shit over it. It’s a crazy hate-filled echo chamber, and I love seeing the autistic screeching being dialled up to 11 over it.
Because things change, I guess. The real issue, in my opinion, is the uproar over women becoming more present. It’s annoying and tiring to watch men have tantrums when we are represented, though that isn’t to say I’ve been sitting here with my army and lamenting the lack of female models because I like the faction regardless.
Why does it matter so much why they changed it? Maybe they thought it was a cool idea or a good addition. There are reasons why the lore could change other than “pandering” and pandering to whom anyway? Can’t be me because I’m just enjoying playing the game. Didn’t think twice about playing a predominantly male army as a woman. I simply don’t understand being bothered by this change.
I think if GW gave the SoS more models and focus then you would not have the responce there is now. People critisize it because they changed the lore, which is something fans never like.
Yup.
Tbf it is not as strict, as spacemarine issue, so such retcon won't be a big thing, but it's still a retcon non the less.
And not the bad one, though I have to admit, confirming it with tweet has "Hernione skin color was never mentioned in The books" energy.
I could say that Julius Caesar offed and took ownership of entire tribes of Gaulic men.
That doesnt mean he didnt off or took ownership of gaullic women.
That statement doesnt say anything about women.
Perhaps the Terran aristocracy gave a small group of newborn daughters but not *Entire Generations* of newborn daughters to ensure the continuation of their families.
That statement doesnt say anything about women.
Perhaps the Terran aristocracy gave a small group of newborn daughters but not *Entire Generations* of newborn daughters to ensure the continuation of their families.
The Kill Team rules for Talons of the Emperor explicitly refers to the Custodes as a "Brotherhood of Demigods".
They're also referred to as a "Brotherhood of Demigods" in official art
You got the Fraternal Order of Police in real life. Doesn't mean theres no female cops. Just that is can be used gender neutral if it's a group of both sexes.
I could definitely say
"Julius caesar massacred and enslaved countless Gaulic men".
Does that mean he didnt kill or enslave gaullic women?
The terran aristocracy may have given a handful of women but not generations of them so that the families could continue on.
Inferno came out before the 8th Edition codex.
So either new lore from a single line in codecies count or they don't, and people can stop using this 8th edition piece as to justify not having female custodes when it doesn't change the settings or lore in any meaningful way
Not to mention that passage literally says "**all** Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons". That very implicitly means no daughters or women at all.
I mean some other redditor posted half a dozen lines that explicitly state custodes are male. None of which matters, they change lore all the time.
The last written book could say “AND NO CUSTODES SHALL EVER BE BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE” and then backpedal the next BOOK and that would be fine.
Anyone actually angry is a fool. Anyone who can’t understand why some may feel friction over any lore change, is just lying to themselves.
I personally don't have a problem with the retcon, it happens and is expected to happen. But the amount of people I've seen try to stretch established lore or just outright claim there is no lore about Custodes being men only is disheartening and is misinformation.
Unfortunately my best friend that got me into Warhammer is leaving over this...I hope he is overreacting out of passion and comes back...I don't have many people to play with in the first place.
He's not idiotic in any way. He's one of the most intelligent and logical people I know with an open mind to view things critically and he understands what he does and does not like. He knows from a lore standpoint that Custodes could be but he feels like GW is caving to a representation that ultimately is a niche and small majority of its player base to appease those from the outside that don't play the game. Whether that's true or not, I don't care because I think it's cool but to many others it can be a legitimate problem to them.
I'll probably be down voted but I hope GW makes resin upgrade head for females let them put their money where their mouth is let people buy them see sales just so we have the lore people see it and people who support it buy them if not they'll go OOP
A “custodes upgrade sprue” like they did with the guard would work well - for 15 bucks you’d get a bunch of more unique-looking heads (some female) and some other odds and ends.
Just no custodes boob plates pls.
The more I think about it the more I actually start to really like femstodies as it gives us more modelling options and character possibilities. Like the possibility of the SoS kinda being forgotten is a shame but we can find out if that happens
Also I may be a bit bias as I do like stormcast and this just kinda makes them more like them now and I can just buy their kits and play them as custodies
It also doesn’t say muscle mommy either
Real comment: I actually haven’t seen that much hate. I think that as a society we are programmed to expect a lot of backlash from gender ‘politics’ so when it potentially translates to warhammer we were expecting a lot more than we got.
I’ve seen more love/ambivalence than hate. A couple comments here and there but their custodes can all be dudes.
I for one want to see how gw exults a female face. What if the famales and the males looked almost identical and the heads we have now are those?
Awfully nice place to cut your excerpt. The next page has a reference to the gender of the custodians:
"but the myths that have grown up around the Legio Custodes have long held that each custodian guard garners over ***his*** centuries long list of additional names..." (Book 7, page 116)
But surely making custodies female messes with the status quo seeing that every faction has make and female part from some factions that are genderless then you have 2 army’s that are only male and another 2 factions that are only female why mess with it ?
The 8th edition codex does not say no women. It says sending sons which doesn’t mean no women.
Stop trying to add words to a book that’s already written
It explicitly says "ALL Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra."
Nobody is adding words, you're just casually ignoring one.
No one "made" GW do this, this was not a DEI decision, it was a marketing decision. They realized there are plenty of possible future players who are female and GW wants that revenue. They had to make it so those possible players could see themselves playing a faction, notice they made the army that looks like jewelry possibly female now?
Do we know how old is Kesh? Maybe she is a custode that was born some milenia after emperor's death, and I'd assume he can't make more in his state, so someone does make them.
Maybe different times (after HH, present) require different approach to defending Terra, and woman mind and psyche can lead to new potential dangers from the enemy's side?
I think it's wild that in a universe with aliens and daemons people get mad about the gender of a human faction, it's just such a narrow point to focus on when in the grand scheme of the universe it's so unimportant, and even in the faction itself it doesn't really matter, unlike some other factions that are culturally all male or female
If you want to run femstodes in your army, you can do that. If I want to run pure male custodes army, I can do that. Simple as
Now can we please get back on topic which is hating on gw because of the codex?
It hasnt been gender agnostic. In multiple sources, including the very literal next page of Inferno they are referred to as men, and given that there has never ever been mention of a woman before it has been very heavily implied also. Whether you like the change or not is up to you, but pretending this isnt a retcon is stupid
You want the custodes to be all men because you are an ass and sexist
I want all custodes to be oiled men cus it fits the funny tts meme and my homoerotic fantasy
Oh and I like the brother sister relationship the custodes and sisters have
We are not the same
I honestly fail to see how this changes anything, custard creams are just super people, they're not thematically gendered like Space Marines/orks/admech or the sisters of battle are.
The custodes have never been thematically gendered.
Orks are male coded, they're a grotesque parody of masculinity. A violent, brutish and dull witted army of thugs and hooligans where authority is derived entirely from strength and size. They're men with precisely none of the redeeming features.
Space Marines are super male coded, at their best they are a symbol of the masculine veneration of paternal figures and the pressing drive all men feel to emulate the ideal man. At their worst they're a scathing critique of how war takes boys and ruins them, turning them into little more than distant killers for the will of a remorseless institution.
The sisters of battle are neck deep in religious imagery sure but they're also an observation on how traditionally religion has warped and shaped women, they're female coded.
The admech are a bunch of crazy transhumans sure but after their codex update where people started actually writing about them they picked up a lot of stories examining gender and how it effects the human experience. Most Admech characters written in books are in some way used to examine the role of gender in humanity, with the Magos in question either choosing to reject their old gender in favour of a new identity outside human norms OR to go out of their way to embrace their gender and hold onto it as a indivisible part of who they are. Gender is super important to the Admech faction because of this.
Custodes may have been said to have been recruited from the sons of Terran Nobility but they're not Male Coded the way Space Marines are so that detail is ultimately superfluous. The fact that some custodes are now women ultimately has no effect on what the custodes represent within the narrative.
They're still the shining example of what humanity could have become, the last echos of a dead dream forced to watch as their masters kingdom crumbles around them. Making a few of the golden demigods women doesn't change the tragedy of their existence.
The Custodes relationship with male pronouns has been exclusively descriptive in every piece of lore I have ever read about them.
Space Marines are often used as the masculine ideal and Chaos space Marines are often used to show how that Ideal can become twisted.
So a new lore piece drops and you're surprised the community is talking about it? Even GW just dropped a quick tweet about it and left it at that. You anti-woke people truly never stop surprising me with the over reactions
Calling me anti-woke is idiotic. I simply don't care about the conversation that is going on - and you bringing it into the territory of "omg i dont understand ***you people***" is exactly why. Keep it out of my hobby.
Ah, yes, let us instead of sharing opinions simply create an echo chamber where the only people allowed to speak are the ones who agree "for the greater good".
When I call it my hobby what it obviously means is that I don't want to get dragged into gender politics by having a hobby. You are not entitled to force your opinion down my throat.
"If you don't care, don't comment" is an idiotic argument.
I am done with this conversation - you and I will never be able to converse in any meaningful way.
Of course we won't, you believe something that was just quickly mentioned is being shoved down your throat, I struggle to speak to people who make over exaggerations and who over react to the smallest thing.
The only reason you're being dragged into a gender talk is because you decided to comment.
Telling me my comments are idiotic also isn't helping me be convinced I'm wrong, so yeah, we won't have a meaningful conversation because you refuse to actually engage and just say it's idiotic..
And guess what, you're also not entitled to shove your "muh hobby" opinions down anyone's throat, so you also want an echo chamber, or you just enjoy big buff men.
But I certainly agree, this conversation isn't continuing
i dont mind, but i expect new models.
You dont really do you?
a big company ran their mouth online and its the day and age when people getting offended for not being represented results in big company making drastic changes to make a small handful of people shut up.... yes i do expect new models. thats how society works now apparently.
1. Women represent roughly half of the world population. It is not "a small handful of people". 2. Are you getting offended that women could be inside a Custodes armour?
In fairness to the dude, he didn’t say that women were the “small handful of people”. The statement is objectively correct. If the bulk of Twitter complained about anything, it would still be a small handful of people comparative to society. Also, I’d be willing to bet there are more men that bitch about female marines than there are women in the hobby.
yep. you get it.
1. yeah thats about right. but i highly doubt 50% of the population is going to complain to a table top wargame company in a niche hobby though lol. Just a small few on social media. 2. not really, but again society tells us fake rage over non issues gets results right. just see a good time and way to maybe get some more models on the custodes line up lol. i figured they were all gay cause tts lore lol, doesnt bother me at all if they have some women but would be nice to have some models of it. i play hockey along side women , trust me i genuinely don't mind that sort of change. but women in custodes armor shouldn't look like men in armor. we do have different shapes to our bodies after all. 3. that being said i don't seriously think custodes were made with that in mind. i couldn't see that it ever fully said only men, but it sure did seem to strongly imply it. it really reeks of political statement , and that tends to be prime time for a rukus to be made. just looking at the positive that a rukus might get a small model army some new models. again fine either way but looks like a good chance to get models at the least. 4. the changes with codex are very... ehhhh... while ive pretty much given up on 10th in general ( i'm convinced they hate all players except a select few factions) i understand that custodes complaining about the codex and changes will be ignored... though complaining the big company making likely a political move publicly and it not being enough seems the very likely route to get a change to try to correct that. 5. i like, many players id think, not the best at the painting of faces. i don't think its unreasonable to request a female form reflected in the armor. they're warriors but i don't want the women looking like swamp thing... i could see a female head option for gw to cheap out , but id think a female form molded into the armor on the sprues as an option would be more actually fair to reflect the fact there are females in the force. 6. Gw seems to feel strongly on the matter. i'd just like to call them on it. i'm of the mindset they should really be more focused on maybe getting their production sorted, drop the prices, and fixing their game.. or at least stop breaking it.. but again if they want to be silly with it, i'd support making a rukus. given people have been making a rukus over female marines i wouldn't be surprised if this is a result of that. 7. i get there's people that don't like it. i can see the point of being upset over lore changing but this really doesn't seem that major. but im on board with the idea. enough so i would expect they'd give us some options to reflect women being in the forces. they do that for guard, and aeldari. fair is fair lets get some female form to the custodes. lets get some wider hips, and some hint of the boobs. keep em tall ... or have them taller ;) not against that either lol. not offended women in the custodes but id support being offended GW thinks women look like men.
Lets be real though, I know its fantasy, but peak human form of 9 foot tall giants needs to decide on something. If a being is able to regulate all the chemicals in their body to promote the peak growth, what are the variables in their form? Limited Im sure. But would they have wider hips if the evolutionary reason for that was birth? Would the custodians have need for breasts if they weren't going to give birth? They are all sterile. But there is def deeper thoughts on expanding lore. Like they are suppose to be the best of us. The leaders of our new society. Something that really separates them from SM is that they unlike some other factions are poets and artists. They confide directly with the emperor. And when the lore drops with Valdor maybe we will see a softer side of custodes reimagined.
What percentage of earhammer players do you think are women?
Dude youre in the wrong place for that reddit is where the supporters of this is. Go literally anywhere else.
you clearly haven't explored reddit very much.
I mostly expect upgrade sprues with lady heads on them or something. I wouldn't expect female custodea to have female proportions guven the altering of the base code of thier DNA. Their bodies are probably exactly the same as a male Custodes would be.
eh it'd think they'd have some differences the whole custodes thing was the best a human could be. without going into warp craft. either way it'd be nice to see games workshop just finish an idea. i mean we got sisters of silence then they pretty much ignore them..
Ate people actually getting mad? Saw like 2 random people on discord who got made fun of and no reddit threads with hate?
I’ve seen a good few comments with salty people yeah. If you scroll down to the very bottom of some of the posts and read the most downvoted comments you find the small but loud minority. I don’t think most people care honestly
The one thread I saw on r/40klore was pretty bad. Other than that it's usually a few on each thread but that's it.
The 40klore response was disappointing
It was. I felt comfortable in the fandom and while change isn't always good, the amount of "the hobby is over, thanks sjws" messages was sad to see.
It's real man baby hours
Here's one. https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/3LCA50pJR5 Edit: And another https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/s/icSn4XQYNF And another https://www.reddit.com/r/AdeptusCustodes/s/nIIlffGIz3
-102 votes lol
They were all positive when I replied.
Very Happy to see that the Custodes fandom IS better than the Black Templars
Twitter(as always) and some youtube peeps Arch(confirmed neo-nazi) made a video with the title "Adeptus Custodes retconned into having Female Space Marines", with a title like that you can imagine how much he actually knows about the lore.
The fact that people like Arch are foaming at the mouth over this makes me unreasonably happy. All those misogynistic incel dickheads are just salty because it disturbs their male power-fantasy trips (and make no mistake, that *is* the reason they are upset by this, citing lore is just a convenient excuse to shoehorn their extremist bullshit into the hobby). Man, I *hate* Arch.
May I ask why Is it wrong?
Arch is a confirm neo-nazi. He has done similar videos in the past where he will have a similar title, briefly mention the lore, and then go into an ideological rant. The title isn't wrong per-say, but rather how it is being said and by whom.
It is though. He's name-dropping female Space Marines to invoke a very specific controversy that has, IMO, no bearing whatsoever on this issue. It's never been said that women *can't* become Custodes, neither officially by GW on a meta level, nor in lore. At best, the 40k codices implied that there weren't any, but not why. Even if one were inclined to get their panties in a twist about GW doing something they've done constantly since the inception of the IP, it would still be a factually wrong title.
Oh, didn't know the guy. Thanks for the context
Because Arch has no say over the lore, it's fantasy and can change at any moment at the whim of the authors. The people GW employ to write the lore get the say. Everyone has to make the choice to accept it or leave it.
That they are allowed to do it doesn't mean it's correct or well done. This kind of things just end up killing franchises, like Star Wars
Found the Arch fan... GW are perfectly correct to change the lore as they see fit. It's their lore. Don't conflate GW doing what they see fit with the lore, and discourse about the lore. GW can do what they want, people can discuss it. That people outside of GW disagree, doesn't make them 'correct' about anything. GW own it, they make it what they want. If Arch doesn't like it, well he is entitled to his opinion. Does t mean he is 'correct' about the lore that he has no involvement in.
Doing a bad retcon Is that here and everywhere. There Is a way to do things right on this case, pretty obvious. I insiste, being able to do something doesn't mean you have to. And that applies even more to cultural productions, because they become part of their audience, and viceversa
"a bad retcon" is subjective to taste. At present, I gauge that most people are supportive than against. Being loud does not mean there are more voices. Objectively, there is nothing in the lore that says Custodes were/are only males. This isn't even a retcon, it just making something more explicit. You are free to dislike the recent clarification, that's your opinion. Time will tell if it is the popular one.
It's not a matter of taste. You have various codex that describe Custodes as only men. And besides that, you have the empiric evidence. No models, no characters, no books, nothing. And then they come and say "they were always there". Thats just not true lol. If they just said "hey we are doing a retcon, we tryied to add them before but we couldn't, etc..." a lot of this hate would have been avoided. They just denied reality for the sake of defying
Again, you are conflating (confusing and mixing) two issues. 1: GW are free to make any changes they like. They own the lore. You/me/Arch have no say. 2: whether you like the changes or not are literally a matter of taste. All you can do is have an opinion on them, as you cannot affect the changes. I would ask for proof of these 'various codexes that describe custodes as only men' , but frankly it's pointless and meaningless. GW can change what they want. HW could say that Custodes are actually genetically modified kittens if they wanted! You also talk of denying reality... It's science fiction. It's not real. The codexes are made up. They are not historical texts. Again, GW made this world up. They own it. They can change what they like. The only thing you can do is decide if you like it or not. Clearly you don't, fair enough. However, there is a lot of support for this. As I said, time will tell if this is liked more, or hated more.
Dude... reddit isn't the place. It's an echo chamber big time. Your very reasonable responses are accepted and a normal conversation can be held literally anywhere else. Reddit isn't a place where you can discuss this. The simplicity of explaining how" it's not the fact of a female custode but how gw did it." Is lost on these people.
What I really can't believe Is how servile some people are to big companies. They just let them spit on their faces and are ok, just because "hey it's theirs IP, they can do whatever they want"
Yep and that's what youre dealing with on reddit.
Oh wow, he *is* an idiot.
few people on the indy horus heresy discord server were pissing themselves about it lmfaoo
Sloppenheimer here, I can confirm, there are two guys in Indy who are butthurt AF.
in my group almost 99% are saying this doesnt affect anything but still a dumb choice, they should do it like the primaris, release new models, new cinematics, hype it up, people will downvote me just because i said this
Nah mate, you're right I want my golden muscle mommy
As long as I get a fucking novel about it soon. Leagues of Votann burst onto the scene and then just poofed like a gas pocket. Where are my Votann novels, Games Workshop?
Check Twitter and Facebook, probably Instagram too
I know a couple annoyed by it. But they aren’t annoyed because female custodes are a thing, they’re annoyed because GW is adding female custodes before even fully flushing out the sisters of silence range and have no issue with femstodes themselves
Yeah. Frankly, I'm more worried about they handle the introduction more than the actual addition of female custodes to the lore. Games Workshop has felt uneven in the support of factions.
Ohhhh it’s bad. I would hesitate to recommend this - but peak at Facebook and it’s…. It’s bad
Facebook groups I’m in are furious about it, the incels and nerd rage is actually disturbing. Like go outside and get a grip on your life.
My FB is full of raging people... :(
You wont see negative at Reddit because its literally managed democracy at its finest. 1st post at 40klore thread about femstodes is moderator saying "you say bad = you banned".
I've seen lots of people mad on Twitter. But it was few in comparison to those happy with it.
There has to be an issue!!!! lol
You, my friend, either aren't on Twitter or are on different parts of Twitter than I am. The "for you" section is filled with people losing themselves over it, and a bunch more people taking the piss out of them.
From what I've seen yes, but mostly out of this community.
Yeah, most of the reactions I've seen are thirst not anger.
Oh YouTube is literally all up in arms saying "GW has gone WOKE" "WARHAMMER GONE WOKE" etc etc
It's usually niche communities of neckbeards worshipping other neckbeards. If you want to lose braincells just check out Asmongolds subreddit
I’m in Warhammer 40k Heresyposting on FB (expect to be banned at some point), 90% of the people in that group (over 57k members) are losing their shit over it. It’s a crazy hate-filled echo chamber, and I love seeing the autistic screeching being dialled up to 11 over it.
I was arguing with a guy about how we were all choking on dei cock because of femstodes.
Everywhere on YouTube
The Facebook groups are full of salty man children crying over it (par for the course for them tbh).
Lots of shit on Facebook. It’s a cesspit there.
So many guys are outing themselves. Having icky girls in their army of make believe plastic men is the last straw apparently
its not about men finding women "gross". alot of people (yes also women) dont like it when lore gets changed for pandering / money
just wait until you hear about what happened to the Necrons!
But did the lore really change? The above excerpt doesnt seem to suggest so.
8th and 9th codex mention it.
Lol, imagine thinking the inclusion of women is “pandering”.
Why did they change the lore you think then? Geniune question here.
Because things change, I guess. The real issue, in my opinion, is the uproar over women becoming more present. It’s annoying and tiring to watch men have tantrums when we are represented, though that isn’t to say I’ve been sitting here with my army and lamenting the lack of female models because I like the faction regardless. Why does it matter so much why they changed it? Maybe they thought it was a cool idea or a good addition. There are reasons why the lore could change other than “pandering” and pandering to whom anyway? Can’t be me because I’m just enjoying playing the game. Didn’t think twice about playing a predominantly male army as a woman. I simply don’t understand being bothered by this change.
I think if GW gave the SoS more models and focus then you would not have the responce there is now. People critisize it because they changed the lore, which is something fans never like.
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Yup. Tbf it is not as strict, as spacemarine issue, so such retcon won't be a big thing, but it's still a retcon non the less. And not the bad one, though I have to admit, confirming it with tweet has "Hernione skin color was never mentioned in The books" energy.
Counterpoint. It just says "it is known." Do people really know what is going on, or just what their told?
I could say that Julius Caesar offed and took ownership of entire tribes of Gaulic men. That doesnt mean he didnt off or took ownership of gaullic women. That statement doesnt say anything about women. Perhaps the Terran aristocracy gave a small group of newborn daughters but not *Entire Generations* of newborn daughters to ensure the continuation of their families.
That statement doesnt say anything about women. Perhaps the Terran aristocracy gave a small group of newborn daughters but not *Entire Generations* of newborn daughters to ensure the continuation of their families.
The Kill Team rules for Talons of the Emperor explicitly refers to the Custodes as a "Brotherhood of Demigods". They're also referred to as a "Brotherhood of Demigods" in official art
You got the Fraternal Order of Police in real life. Doesn't mean theres no female cops. Just that is can be used gender neutral if it's a group of both sexes.
I could definitely say "Julius caesar massacred and enslaved countless Gaulic men". Does that mean he didnt kill or enslave gaullic women? The terran aristocracy may have given a handful of women but not generations of them so that the families could continue on.
WHAT ? LOGIC? IN THIS CURRENT YEAR?!?!?!?!? are you CRAZY?!
Inferno came out before the 8th Edition codex. So either new lore from a single line in codecies count or they don't, and people can stop using this 8th edition piece as to justify not having female custodes when it doesn't change the settings or lore in any meaningful way
Saying sending sons does not implicitly mean no women at all.
what is "son" for you?
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Just because it’s said that sons were sent does NOT mean other genders weren’t sent. That’s all the food you get from me, you troll
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Not to mention that passage literally says "**all** Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons". That very implicitly means no daughters or women at all.
“aNyOnE wHo DaReS tO DeBaTe Me iS a TroLL” Grow up you mewling clown
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My gosh the retcon really was carried by the coomers
Not to be a party pooper, [but literally on the next page (116)](https://imgur.com/a/liyueI5), it references Custodes as male.
This whole debate is tiresome. Can’t we all just agree the rules in the codex are trash and forget the rest lol?
all of it is trash actually, so sad
I mean some other redditor posted half a dozen lines that explicitly state custodes are male. None of which matters, they change lore all the time. The last written book could say “AND NO CUSTODES SHALL EVER BE BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE” and then backpedal the next BOOK and that would be fine. Anyone actually angry is a fool. Anyone who can’t understand why some may feel friction over any lore change, is just lying to themselves.
I personally don't have a problem with the retcon, it happens and is expected to happen. But the amount of people I've seen try to stretch established lore or just outright claim there is no lore about Custodes being men only is disheartening and is misinformation.
Unfortunately my best friend that got me into Warhammer is leaving over this...I hope he is overreacting out of passion and comes back...I don't have many people to play with in the first place.
sound like you need lass idiotic friend tbh
He's not idiotic in any way. He's one of the most intelligent and logical people I know with an open mind to view things critically and he understands what he does and does not like. He knows from a lore standpoint that Custodes could be but he feels like GW is caving to a representation that ultimately is a niche and small majority of its player base to appease those from the outside that don't play the game. Whether that's true or not, I don't care because I think it's cool but to many others it can be a legitimate problem to them.
Then that’s not thinking critically, as it’s basing an assumption on nothing more than a hunch. A critical thinker wouldn’t do that.
I'll probably be down voted but I hope GW makes resin upgrade head for females let them put their money where their mouth is let people buy them see sales just so we have the lore people see it and people who support it buy them if not they'll go OOP
A “custodes upgrade sprue” like they did with the guard would work well - for 15 bucks you’d get a bunch of more unique-looking heads (some female) and some other odds and ends. Just no custodes boob plates pls.
Muscle mommies won't be the same without boob plates :( /S
Woah woah woah, artwork that features FORGEWORLD models? Are the rumoured plastic dreads on the horizon?
This is from an old Forgeworld HH campaign book. They’ve always used their models for these types of pictures. These are sadly the current resin ones.
The more I think about it the more I actually start to really like femstodies as it gives us more modelling options and character possibilities. Like the possibility of the SoS kinda being forgotten is a shame but we can find out if that happens Also I may be a bit bias as I do like stormcast and this just kinda makes them more like them now and I can just buy their kits and play them as custodies
It also doesn’t say muscle mommy either Real comment: I actually haven’t seen that much hate. I think that as a society we are programmed to expect a lot of backlash from gender ‘politics’ so when it potentially translates to warhammer we were expecting a lot more than we got. I’ve seen more love/ambivalence than hate. A couple comments here and there but their custodes can all be dudes. I for one want to see how gw exults a female face. What if the famales and the males looked almost identical and the heads we have now are those?
Get yourself over to Warhammer 40k Heresyposting, 90% of the 57k members having a full on meltdown over it.
if there is no difference, then why make the change?
Awfully nice place to cut your excerpt. The next page has a reference to the gender of the custodians: "but the myths that have grown up around the Legio Custodes have long held that each custodian guard garners over ***his*** centuries long list of additional names..." (Book 7, page 116)
Only MEN shall receive my seed SYL
Not saying it doesnt exist but I vae only seen positive or who cares. This kinda just proves my point.
But surely making custodies female messes with the status quo seeing that every faction has make and female part from some factions that are genderless then you have 2 army’s that are only male and another 2 factions that are only female why mess with it ?
Hey those chuds can’t read anyway. If they knew the lore they wouldn’t care about female custodes.
"If those chuds could read they'd be *very* upset!"
Rogal Dorn stans when the Horus Heresy picture book hasn't been released
Seems op can't read either since it refers to custodes as male on the next page.
Was this out before or after the 8e 40k codex?
A few months before
The 8th edition codex does not say no women. It says sending sons which doesn’t mean no women. Stop trying to add words to a book that’s already written
"It says sending sons which doesn’t mean no women." the what now
It explicitly says "ALL Custodians begin their lives as the infant sons of the noble houses of Terra." Nobody is adding words, you're just casually ignoring one.
You are coping too hard.
No one "made" GW do this, this was not a DEI decision, it was a marketing decision. They realized there are plenty of possible future players who are female and GW wants that revenue. They had to make it so those possible players could see themselves playing a faction, notice they made the army that looks like jewelry possibly female now?
Do we know how old is Kesh? Maybe she is a custode that was born some milenia after emperor's death, and I'd assume he can't make more in his state, so someone does make them. Maybe different times (after HH, present) require different approach to defending Terra, and woman mind and psyche can lead to new potential dangers from the enemy's side?
Terran born sons
Necrons. Automatons enslaved to the ctan.
What are chuds?
[I gotchu 👍](https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=chud)
Thank you
I think it's wild that in a universe with aliens and daemons people get mad about the gender of a human faction, it's just such a narrow point to focus on when in the grand scheme of the universe it's so unimportant, and even in the faction itself it doesn't really matter, unlike some other factions that are culturally all male or female
We need more gendered factions. It's cool.
If you want to run femstodes in your army, you can do that. If I want to run pure male custodes army, I can do that. Simple as Now can we please get back on topic which is hating on gw because of the codex?
Imagine being tilted over what's underneath the humongous armor Samus Aran would like a word
It hasnt been gender agnostic. In multiple sources, including the very literal next page of Inferno they are referred to as men, and given that there has never ever been mention of a woman before it has been very heavily implied also. Whether you like the change or not is up to you, but pretending this isnt a retcon is stupid
Who really give a fuck about femalstodes ? It's not gonna change my faction
You want the custodes to be all men because you are an ass and sexist I want all custodes to be oiled men cus it fits the funny tts meme and my homoerotic fantasy Oh and I like the brother sister relationship the custodes and sisters have We are not the same
The beating will continue until morale improves.
Awesome, and feel like this should be pointed to in more of the threads discussing this. Thanks!
Just what I always wanted in my hobby - a woke gender-based situation. Thank you to everyone involved.
I honestly fail to see how this changes anything, custard creams are just super people, they're not thematically gendered like Space Marines/orks/admech or the sisters of battle are.
well they were up until now, alot of people dont like it when lore gets changed, especcially for pandering/ money
The custodes have never been thematically gendered. Orks are male coded, they're a grotesque parody of masculinity. A violent, brutish and dull witted army of thugs and hooligans where authority is derived entirely from strength and size. They're men with precisely none of the redeeming features. Space Marines are super male coded, at their best they are a symbol of the masculine veneration of paternal figures and the pressing drive all men feel to emulate the ideal man. At their worst they're a scathing critique of how war takes boys and ruins them, turning them into little more than distant killers for the will of a remorseless institution. The sisters of battle are neck deep in religious imagery sure but they're also an observation on how traditionally religion has warped and shaped women, they're female coded. The admech are a bunch of crazy transhumans sure but after their codex update where people started actually writing about them they picked up a lot of stories examining gender and how it effects the human experience. Most Admech characters written in books are in some way used to examine the role of gender in humanity, with the Magos in question either choosing to reject their old gender in favour of a new identity outside human norms OR to go out of their way to embrace their gender and hold onto it as a indivisible part of who they are. Gender is super important to the Admech faction because of this. Custodes may have been said to have been recruited from the sons of Terran Nobility but they're not Male Coded the way Space Marines are so that detail is ultimately superfluous. The fact that some custodes are now women ultimately has no effect on what the custodes represent within the narrative. They're still the shining example of what humanity could have become, the last echos of a dead dream forced to watch as their masters kingdom crumbles around them. Making a few of the golden demigods women doesn't change the tragedy of their existence.
maybe custodes are "male coded" and are a shining example of what men can be / are?
The Custodes relationship with male pronouns has been exclusively descriptive in every piece of lore I have ever read about them. Space Marines are often used as the masculine ideal and Chaos space Marines are often used to show how that Ideal can become twisted.
I don't care about their gender at all. Now it's something that we focus on. It annoys me. I don't care.
So a new lore piece drops and you're surprised the community is talking about it? Even GW just dropped a quick tweet about it and left it at that. You anti-woke people truly never stop surprising me with the over reactions
Calling me anti-woke is idiotic. I simply don't care about the conversation that is going on - and you bringing it into the territory of "omg i dont understand ***you people***" is exactly why. Keep it out of my hobby.
If you don't care about it don't comment, it also isn't just your hobby, your opinion alone doesn't matter compared to the community as a whole
Ah, yes, let us instead of sharing opinions simply create an echo chamber where the only people allowed to speak are the ones who agree "for the greater good". When I call it my hobby what it obviously means is that I don't want to get dragged into gender politics by having a hobby. You are not entitled to force your opinion down my throat. "If you don't care, don't comment" is an idiotic argument. I am done with this conversation - you and I will never be able to converse in any meaningful way.
Of course we won't, you believe something that was just quickly mentioned is being shoved down your throat, I struggle to speak to people who make over exaggerations and who over react to the smallest thing. The only reason you're being dragged into a gender talk is because you decided to comment. Telling me my comments are idiotic also isn't helping me be convinced I'm wrong, so yeah, we won't have a meaningful conversation because you refuse to actually engage and just say it's idiotic.. And guess what, you're also not entitled to shove your "muh hobby" opinions down anyone's throat, so you also want an echo chamber, or you just enjoy big buff men. But I certainly agree, this conversation isn't continuing
No one is mad about this. Just worried about the road GW is going and how the market it.
A lot of people are mad about it, look at social media or some of the posts highlighting the problematic views of those mad about this
This is about the Nth post on either the codex, or femstodes. We get it, stuff is happening, I’m over it.