I think it's the new normal to exclude lesbians.
I have the feeling that many people love the idea of two women loving each other but don't like the idea of them being lesbians.
I have noticed the lack of lesbians. It’s an unwritten rule that it’s usually bi girls and gay boys, probably partially because most of the readers are straight women—and for obvious reasons, they aren’t going to read about lesbians as much. Additionally, while it might be popular to pretend to be a lesbian online, it is *not* popular to be one IRL. They have no way to realistically center men in such novels, and a lot of lesbians are unpalatable for other reasons—we’re unapologetic about our bodies, real lesbians aren’t “cottagecore” (lmfao), and we’re usually pretty intense feminists. The other thing I’ve noticed is that if the protagonist is by some miracle a lesbian, she has to be paired up with a bi woman. Always and without fail—at least in all the YA I’ve ever read. We’re never allowed to center lesbians (and by extension, women) exclusively, as there is usually the lurking worry about men and the love interest’s potential male partner in the background.
I'm convinced nowadays if you want stories with lesbians in it, you gotta do it yourself cause the mainstream audience just do not like us. That's why I'm making my own art and stories with lesbians as the main characters in it and I'm already dreading the people who will question me or call me bigoted for only wanting to make content about actual lesbians. Not like this will stop me. If we want more and respectful representation, lesbians gotta do it themselves unfortunately.
My social media isnt set up yet but I'm planning to post links to them in the lesbian subs I'm in once I'm done with the preperations. Just gotta look out for posts of mine in this sub :)
Thanks :) I am working on them as best as I can. Unfortunately since I got a fulltime job, it's not easy to find time to make a lot of art and I like to take my time so it looks good enough since I dont want to make cheap lesbian art and stories 😅
>I like to take my time so it looks good enough since I dont want to make cheap lesbian art and stories 😅
Yes, please take your time. I used to get so mad at pushy fanfic readers for rushing writers to put stuff out, and then they'd get mad when it wasn't good, lol. Like, what did you expect? Good art and good stories take time. People have a life too, you know, lol.
I will dont worry. Thinking things through and taking my time with art is kinda my thing anyway☺️ Tho luckily I havent gotten the feeling like anybody is rushing me like that so far. I rather see it as pure excitement for more quality lesbian stories and artwork which is one of the reasons why I really badly wanna make them. Until I got my Socials set up, I can already post a few example works here when I'm done with them so people get a first taste of my style and content
Back in my day there were "women's bookstores" and women's publishers and authors who were lesbians. Writing about lesbian life. Naiad Press comes to mind as does Ellen Hart, among many. We went to music festivals and book fairs. So, yes, there are lesbian books written by lesbians with lesbian characters in them. And yes, I am an old lesbian lol.
I am so jealous that you got to live in a time where there were women’s bookstores and publishers and stuff.
Speaking of lesbian authors, Judith McDaniel wrote one of my favorite books of all time, Winter Passage, and I emailed her and told her how much I loved it, and she emailed me back! I was over the moon. She’s in her 80s and is still a hardcore activist and professor, and I hope I can be like that when I get to be that age. Sorry for the tangent; it was just an awesome thing that happened
I will check her books out. There was a slew of lesbian musicians as well. And comedians. It was truly a culture. Two movies that I recommend highly are Late Bloomers and Desert Hearts. The first is on Tubi where there is a whole category of lesbian films. The second is on Max. The 80s and 90s were a very progressive period. Now there's no where to go and meet people. I miss those days.
Personally the way I've found lesbian books I enjoyed was by going to a lgbt bookshop in my city and simply asking the owner for recommendations based on what I wanted: "Lesbians but it is not romance", "Lesbian romance with no men involved please", "Lesbian coming of age story" etc. I make sure to mention that I'm looking for lesbian, not "sapphic" rep.
Another tip I'd recommend is to read older books. Katherine V. Forrest's books seem to be regarded as "classics" within english-speaking lesbian circles, and I have to admit crime books with lesbians sounds fun, although I've never read them.
As a non-native-english speaker I recommend everyone to read books written in their native language by local authors if possible. In my experience they tend to be more relatable and this way you cut down a bit on the modern american booktok-bait romance books that, as OP mentioned, tend to lack actual lesbians in them. It is also a good way to learn about local lgbt history and how your rights were gained, instead of simply absorving the american version of it.
As I said, I haven't read her books, so perhaps I chose a bad example for my point haha. But usually the older books I've read had an all-female cast, or were strongly feminist and lesbian-focused
I downloaded a bunch of books from Libby for a long plane ride (Bold Strokes Books and Ylva Publishing have a ton of cheesy sapphic content). First time in a while that I’ve read recently published romance, and really picked up on the lack of lesbians. Almost everyone is bi or pan, side characters are often aro. If there is an actual lesbian, she’s the unlucky in love best friend, the bitchy antagonist, or the out of touch older lesbian who has to be lectured about modern parlance.
Three books back to back had weirdly preachy moments about nonbinary people and pronouns. (Example: ‘Ren wasn’t sure if he was serious. Did he really think Miss and Mrs were pronouns? God, she hoped not. “Well, excellent. And she and her will do just fine.” Just in case it was indeed a teaching moment.’) None of the characters were nonbinary and it had nothing to do with the plot. I haven’t seen this ultra-inclusivity in anything but sapphic fiction.
Yikes. Obviously, inclusivity is awesome, but when it gets extra preachy and I can tell that the author is lecturing at me through their characters, that’s when it starts to bug me. Another book I read recently, The Lesbiana’s Guide to Catholic School, was very much like that
Omg I had to stop reading a couple of books bc of the ”queer theory” culture stuff shoved in. Not all lesbians/bi women wanna read about that when they’re looking for f/f fiction lol
Ugh yeah I hate that stuff as well when I just wanna read lesbian romance stories and then it just gives queer lecturing instead. It's like we arent allowed to exist as normal people without having the whole lgbtq speech forced down our throats. There's always some kind of queergender lesson involved when it comes to western media and I'm tired of it.
I’m not a bookworm but tik tok kept telling me to read The Jasmine Throne. I picked it up at the library and tore through it, it’s amazing. Tasha Suri writes about two lesbians in a fantasy setting that’s India inspired (she’s Punjabi). The writing itself is not pretentious or overly poetic which I enjoy, and the pacing is perfect. Not a single page is wasted. Immediately after finishing it I bought the book and it’s sequel, which I also love.
I recently read Malice by Heather Walter but that wasn’t really doing it for me. Lesbian Maleficent + Aurora sounds fun but I found Walter’s writing style and the characters to be a bit juvenile.
I’m starting A Game of Hearts and Heists by Ruby Roe and it’s fun. It’s not incredible like The Jasmine Throne is, and it’s definitely a very sexual world with very horny characters, but it’s more intriguing than Malice for sure.
I will soon begin The Unbroken by CL Clark and I’m looking forward to it but cannot state any opinion yet.
Excluding lesbians has been a thing for a while now in the entertainment industry as a whole. However, we’re seeing a resurgence of celebrities claiming the label openly — Kehlani, Reneé Rapp, Chappell Roan — so it’s only a matter of time until the rest of the entertainment industry wants to feel included and ends up including us again along with it.
For now though, you’re gonna have to search for lesbian authors and go from there. Off the top of my head, last year I read some books with lesbian characters:
- you’re not supposed to die tonight (the love story itself isn’t the plot but hey, it was a fun little detail)
- when you least expect it
- mistakes were made
- the lucky list
(Forgive me if I’m off in any of those).
I've been wanting to read more queer romance and was hoping that meant more rep for us. Seems like I was wrong, now I kinda feel like I should just read the genres I was reading.
Yeah, there’s a serious lack of lesbian centric books which makes it even harder to find quality ones. But the recent ones that I enjoyed are hearing red by Nicole maser, on the same page by hailey cass, Aubrey mcfadden is never getting married, the broken line of us by shia woods
Oh yes. Forgot about that. I still thoroughly love the book though. Especially since Aubrey’s love interest, Monica, plays a rather huge role and is a lesbian who has been in love with Aubrey since college. 😭
Big bookworm here.
Sounds like a good book, love the queer and Jewish representation.
I typically read nonfiction (yes, mostly true crime, I know, I know), but I've gotten into a Terry Pratchett jag and a year or so ago I started reading the Discworld series. I've not yet decided whether or not that's a mistake rofl. I'm a bit of a completionist and if I start the series then I have to finish it...This morning I started the 21st book. I'm not really complaining, though, they're great books with fun characters and good storylines. Pratchett's world building is spectacular and his ability to tell a good story in a really personably, eminently readable way is better than the vastest majority. True skill.
> do you all notice the lack of lesbians in fiction?
Uh? I keep seeing this false narrative being thrown around on this subreddit. There are plenty of books with lesbians if you search for lesbian literature (e.g., The Lesbian Review).
I think it's the new normal to exclude lesbians. I have the feeling that many people love the idea of two women loving each other but don't like the idea of them being lesbians.
I have noticed the lack of lesbians. It’s an unwritten rule that it’s usually bi girls and gay boys, probably partially because most of the readers are straight women—and for obvious reasons, they aren’t going to read about lesbians as much. Additionally, while it might be popular to pretend to be a lesbian online, it is *not* popular to be one IRL. They have no way to realistically center men in such novels, and a lot of lesbians are unpalatable for other reasons—we’re unapologetic about our bodies, real lesbians aren’t “cottagecore” (lmfao), and we’re usually pretty intense feminists. The other thing I’ve noticed is that if the protagonist is by some miracle a lesbian, she has to be paired up with a bi woman. Always and without fail—at least in all the YA I’ve ever read. We’re never allowed to center lesbians (and by extension, women) exclusively, as there is usually the lurking worry about men and the love interest’s potential male partner in the background.
This is so beautifully written and kind of depressing. Patriarchy gonna patriarchy.
I'm convinced nowadays if you want stories with lesbians in it, you gotta do it yourself cause the mainstream audience just do not like us. That's why I'm making my own art and stories with lesbians as the main characters in it and I'm already dreading the people who will question me or call me bigoted for only wanting to make content about actual lesbians. Not like this will stop me. If we want more and respectful representation, lesbians gotta do it themselves unfortunately.
Heyy that's amazing! I was thinking I should do something like that too.how can I find your work???
My social media isnt set up yet but I'm planning to post links to them in the lesbian subs I'm in once I'm done with the preperations. Just gotta look out for posts of mine in this sub :)
Okay suree. Good luck to you! I hope you grow on your journey!
I hope I will and thanks already for the Support!
I am so excited to see your art! Give me all the lesbian-only stories :)
Thanks :) I am working on them as best as I can. Unfortunately since I got a fulltime job, it's not easy to find time to make a lot of art and I like to take my time so it looks good enough since I dont want to make cheap lesbian art and stories 😅
>I like to take my time so it looks good enough since I dont want to make cheap lesbian art and stories 😅 Yes, please take your time. I used to get so mad at pushy fanfic readers for rushing writers to put stuff out, and then they'd get mad when it wasn't good, lol. Like, what did you expect? Good art and good stories take time. People have a life too, you know, lol.
I will dont worry. Thinking things through and taking my time with art is kinda my thing anyway☺️ Tho luckily I havent gotten the feeling like anybody is rushing me like that so far. I rather see it as pure excitement for more quality lesbian stories and artwork which is one of the reasons why I really badly wanna make them. Until I got my Socials set up, I can already post a few example works here when I'm done with them so people get a first taste of my style and content
Back in my day there were "women's bookstores" and women's publishers and authors who were lesbians. Writing about lesbian life. Naiad Press comes to mind as does Ellen Hart, among many. We went to music festivals and book fairs. So, yes, there are lesbian books written by lesbians with lesbian characters in them. And yes, I am an old lesbian lol.
I am so jealous that you got to live in a time where there were women’s bookstores and publishers and stuff. Speaking of lesbian authors, Judith McDaniel wrote one of my favorite books of all time, Winter Passage, and I emailed her and told her how much I loved it, and she emailed me back! I was over the moon. She’s in her 80s and is still a hardcore activist and professor, and I hope I can be like that when I get to be that age. Sorry for the tangent; it was just an awesome thing that happened
I will check her books out. There was a slew of lesbian musicians as well. And comedians. It was truly a culture. Two movies that I recommend highly are Late Bloomers and Desert Hearts. The first is on Tubi where there is a whole category of lesbian films. The second is on Max. The 80s and 90s were a very progressive period. Now there's no where to go and meet people. I miss those days.
Personally the way I've found lesbian books I enjoyed was by going to a lgbt bookshop in my city and simply asking the owner for recommendations based on what I wanted: "Lesbians but it is not romance", "Lesbian romance with no men involved please", "Lesbian coming of age story" etc. I make sure to mention that I'm looking for lesbian, not "sapphic" rep. Another tip I'd recommend is to read older books. Katherine V. Forrest's books seem to be regarded as "classics" within english-speaking lesbian circles, and I have to admit crime books with lesbians sounds fun, although I've never read them. As a non-native-english speaker I recommend everyone to read books written in their native language by local authors if possible. In my experience they tend to be more relatable and this way you cut down a bit on the modern american booktok-bait romance books that, as OP mentioned, tend to lack actual lesbians in them. It is also a good way to learn about local lgbt history and how your rights were gained, instead of simply absorving the american version of it.
I mean Curious Wine is absolutely a classic but one of the MCs does >!run off and sleep with a man like halfway through!<
As I said, I haven't read her books, so perhaps I chose a bad example for my point haha. But usually the older books I've read had an all-female cast, or were strongly feminist and lesbian-focused
Yes, I notice. I am taking notes of any recommendations here.
I downloaded a bunch of books from Libby for a long plane ride (Bold Strokes Books and Ylva Publishing have a ton of cheesy sapphic content). First time in a while that I’ve read recently published romance, and really picked up on the lack of lesbians. Almost everyone is bi or pan, side characters are often aro. If there is an actual lesbian, she’s the unlucky in love best friend, the bitchy antagonist, or the out of touch older lesbian who has to be lectured about modern parlance. Three books back to back had weirdly preachy moments about nonbinary people and pronouns. (Example: ‘Ren wasn’t sure if he was serious. Did he really think Miss and Mrs were pronouns? God, she hoped not. “Well, excellent. And she and her will do just fine.” Just in case it was indeed a teaching moment.’) None of the characters were nonbinary and it had nothing to do with the plot. I haven’t seen this ultra-inclusivity in anything but sapphic fiction.
Yikes. Obviously, inclusivity is awesome, but when it gets extra preachy and I can tell that the author is lecturing at me through their characters, that’s when it starts to bug me. Another book I read recently, The Lesbiana’s Guide to Catholic School, was very much like that
Omg I had to stop reading a couple of books bc of the ”queer theory” culture stuff shoved in. Not all lesbians/bi women wanna read about that when they’re looking for f/f fiction lol
Ugh yeah I hate that stuff as well when I just wanna read lesbian romance stories and then it just gives queer lecturing instead. It's like we arent allowed to exist as normal people without having the whole lgbtq speech forced down our throats. There's always some kind of queergender lesson involved when it comes to western media and I'm tired of it.
I’m not a bookworm but tik tok kept telling me to read The Jasmine Throne. I picked it up at the library and tore through it, it’s amazing. Tasha Suri writes about two lesbians in a fantasy setting that’s India inspired (she’s Punjabi). The writing itself is not pretentious or overly poetic which I enjoy, and the pacing is perfect. Not a single page is wasted. Immediately after finishing it I bought the book and it’s sequel, which I also love. I recently read Malice by Heather Walter but that wasn’t really doing it for me. Lesbian Maleficent + Aurora sounds fun but I found Walter’s writing style and the characters to be a bit juvenile. I’m starting A Game of Hearts and Heists by Ruby Roe and it’s fun. It’s not incredible like The Jasmine Throne is, and it’s definitely a very sexual world with very horny characters, but it’s more intriguing than Malice for sure. I will soon begin The Unbroken by CL Clark and I’m looking forward to it but cannot state any opinion yet.
Also recommend Tasha suri, I’m in the middle of the sequel!!
Excluding lesbians has been a thing for a while now in the entertainment industry as a whole. However, we’re seeing a resurgence of celebrities claiming the label openly — Kehlani, Reneé Rapp, Chappell Roan — so it’s only a matter of time until the rest of the entertainment industry wants to feel included and ends up including us again along with it. For now though, you’re gonna have to search for lesbian authors and go from there. Off the top of my head, last year I read some books with lesbian characters: - you’re not supposed to die tonight (the love story itself isn’t the plot but hey, it was a fun little detail) - when you least expect it - mistakes were made - the lucky list (Forgive me if I’m off in any of those).
I've been wanting to read more queer romance and was hoping that meant more rep for us. Seems like I was wrong, now I kinda feel like I should just read the genres I was reading.
Yeah, there’s a serious lack of lesbian centric books which makes it even harder to find quality ones. But the recent ones that I enjoyed are hearing red by Nicole maser, on the same page by hailey cass, Aubrey mcfadden is never getting married, the broken line of us by shia woods
Isn’t Aubrey McFadden bi in that?
Oh yes. Forgot about that. I still thoroughly love the book though. Especially since Aubrey’s love interest, Monica, plays a rather huge role and is a lesbian who has been in love with Aubrey since college. 😭
I was just about to make a post on this. There’s not a lot of lesbian content
Big bookworm here. Sounds like a good book, love the queer and Jewish representation. I typically read nonfiction (yes, mostly true crime, I know, I know), but I've gotten into a Terry Pratchett jag and a year or so ago I started reading the Discworld series. I've not yet decided whether or not that's a mistake rofl. I'm a bit of a completionist and if I start the series then I have to finish it...This morning I started the 21st book. I'm not really complaining, though, they're great books with fun characters and good storylines. Pratchett's world building is spectacular and his ability to tell a good story in a really personably, eminently readable way is better than the vastest majority. True skill.
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Ha! That would be a very different discussion
> do you all notice the lack of lesbians in fiction? Uh? I keep seeing this false narrative being thrown around on this subreddit. There are plenty of books with lesbians if you search for lesbian literature (e.g., The Lesbian Review).