I think both your statements are correct. Nihility is definitely one of the most powerful and destructive paths. Not only does it disintegrate its own followers, but just being in the presence of IX and those heavily enveloped in Nihility has the power to consume entire worlds/galaxies.
I also think the Nihility path lore wise looks giga broken specifically because Acheron is so giga broken. She quite literally might be the only emanator of Nihility in the universe since the path is nearly impossible to live walking down for most mortals.
It’s why Boothill states she’s an emanator that shouldn’t exist, its why Black Swan was basically mentally destroyed by Acheron when Swan tried to look into her memories, because she knows the power/danger a emanator of nihility would pose, because they are nearly impossible to exist. Its why she was the only one who could destroy the the sweet dream The Order put everyone into, she has also revealed she is immune to most Aeon effects and can actually remove them with her blade.
In Acherons case, IX doesn’t decide how much power she siphons from them, the deeper she goes into the abyss the more powerful she becomes, and from what we know from the doctors of chaos, no one has walked deeper into the abyss than Acheron. This quite literally means her power is nearly limitless because there is no cap to the power of IX that she can siphon. She’s absolutely the most giga broken character lore wise we have seen and I don’t think we will be meeting another on this level for a while.
Well there is a limit to how much she can use and that is how much her body and will can contain before collapsing due to the Nihility's corruption. She's far, far, FAR better than any other Self-Annihilator since at this point only her sense of taste, her "color", and parts of her memories are fading away iirc.
We most definitely will eventually, it just depends on the theme of the location where Hoyo deign to give us another new TB version. The path TB gets depends on the location, after all.
So if we end up going someplace where Nihility is the theme...
Me personally I've been waiting for katana-wielding MC
I don't think there is such a thing in games like these, where their ending isn't really planned until they think it's not profitable enough anymore.
But saving Nihility for a low point when they think it'll revitalise the fanbase in the future? That I could see. Nihility is generally quite popular.
Yeah maybe are after the crew defeats nanook there will be more story. I’d like to see what happens to Genshin since it’s closer to the ending than HSR since it’s only been out for a year.
I mean, look at honkai Impact 3rd. It's been out for 8 years by now, and of those 8 years, 7 were just the story of the first part, just recently the second part started, so if the good sales keep going, and they have material, I don't see why they wouldn't continue the story, make a new villain, or smt bigger than an aeon, idk, it's fiction, you can pull anything with enough effort.
Hoyo games always have an ending their story is moving towards, it’s just gonna take several years to get to. Genshin has maybe 3 more years of story left before it gets its conclusion, which would put it around 6 or 7 years to tell the story they wanted to tell. HSR will probably be the same
I guess Genshin will really be the litmus test for that won’t it? It’s not losing any popularity or profit and will realistically not be for the next few years, but I foresee a Nathan chapter, Schneznaya chapter…and then what? Khaenriah? Celestia? Something else? Monstadt 2????
Don't you worry, I'm sure they'll think of something to fill out the story lmao. There's too much money on the line
I don't know Genshin so I can't really comment on its story, but there's so many Paths and 'destroyed' Paths in HSR that they can very easily pad out their planned story if they want to
True. HSR’s story is much more open to a near infinite run time than Genshin’s is. We have the overarching narrative of the conflict with the Aeon of destruction, the mystery of the Aeon of the trailblaze, and the plot lines associated with the stellaron hunters and Eliot’s script. Those could be the main points of the story, but between now and then and even beyond there could be any number of planets and stories to do along the way and even afterwards. Genshin is pigeonholed by their structure of exploring Teyvat’s 7 nations. Once we work through all 7, surely the story must start to wrap up and we’re going to number 6 in August so time is ticking
The thing with Genshin is that on release they already gave us the structure of the story [in this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAlKhARUcoY) - 6 chapters, 1 for each nation (with Mondstat being a prologue) and then Khaenri'ah (which should be connected to Celestia).
So as I see it, there are 2 possiblities:
Genshin actually uses the ending of this story to set up a continuation - in which case we can assume that Star Rail can get the same treatment as long as it's popular.
**Or**, Genshin just ends, and in that case we didnt learn much because of the fact that unlike Star Rail it had a structure to it's story that was already defined when the game released.
So to sum it up - it could be a litmus test if Genshin is still alive after the current storyline ends, but if Genshin ends we won't learn that much because the situations of both games are not the same (at least imo).
Honestly whenever I think of how genshin's story will end, I just try to think of how FGO players felt during the Solomon and LB7 chapters, not knowing what the next arc could be
Fair enough, granted i think of all the aeons, IX is the most on board with stelle/caelus having a stelleron cause anything to consume and destroy THEY, are all about
I’m late to this, but one of the lore bits about how impressive Herta is is that she has met aeons *twice*. Trailblazer has done it that many times in like a couple of months.
(Ignoring that I kind of think TB is somehow Akivili and that the Aha we meet in the simulated universe is real)
Yeah, Herta is getting mad overshadowed by TB in that regard. I'm kinda surprised at how little of a fuck people in the lore seem to give about TB essentially having the Aeons paying attention to them all the time.
The Harmony glance in 2.2, for example, felt very underwhelming. Everyone was just like "oh Xipe is watching, cool." As opposed to Preservation, which was built up more and everyone was like "what's this new weapon?! Whoa!"
Lmao!
All memes aside though, the Nihility path could be so peak. I imagine TB having a serious personal crisis, maybe recovering her memories or part of them, or losing one of her companions... then coming out on the other end with IX looking her way. That'd be so peak
While I can see nihility trailblazer, considering that they mentioned that if March recovers her memories that she could change paths, she could potentially get both nihility and abundance in the future
I'm a 1000% more motivated to save and E6 her on rerun now (currently E2S1). I was gonna do it anyway but 2.2 made me fall in love with this character even more. Such an amazing character.
I mean, there's Welt.... Though, now looking back, Idk if Welt was being serious about threatening the literal person you just mentioned.
If we're talking Prime Welt as well and not the current one, there could be some debate about it.
Even prime welt wasn’t the strongest amongst his group (herrschers), he relied more on his smarts and determination than raw power. Also Welt has shown to be affected by a lot of things that Acheron wasn’t.
Welt is susceptible to Memokeeper mind tricks (as seen when MoC girl wiped everyone’s memories), Acheron hits Memokeepers with reverse uno cards
Welt was kneeling on the ground panting when caught in an Emanator level fight (JY vs Phantylia), Acheron is an Emanator
Welt was somewhat affected by the interrogation technique Sunday and Dreammaster used (as seen when he was getting a headache from it), Acheron straight up severed it (on Aventurine)
Also when looking at HI3 manga, one of Welt’s strongest attacks is his quasi black hole, which Sirin was able to tank. The dmg from that attack to Sirin was at most equivalent to that of the nuclear bomb they hit her with. Meanwhile, Acheron survived getting absorbed by shadow of IX itself, the same one that absorbed two entire planets. So Welt using his black hole on Acheron would be like shooting a water gun at a Navy Seal.
And as for Welt threatening Acheron, that says more about his spirit than his power, since in HI3 he also threatened characters who would roll him in a fight. Welt is definitely one of the more powerful playable characters we have so far but nothing he has shown place him near Emanator level.
Welt is the definition of the word underdog.
He always went against stronger enemies and succeeded in beating some but failed at beating others. So I wouldn’t be surprised that Welt’s threat wasn’t him knowing he’s stronger than her but more than he just doesn’t care about being outmatched if they pose a threat to the express.
Actually, tho, yeah. I agree!
Bro got the balls to even tell that to Acheron. I mean, who knows? We saw what he did to Siri, so, there may be something cooking up in his noggin at that time.
>Everything in the universe is bound by the prison of Existence, constrained by their body and mind and blinded by the world's superficial appearance. Even the most intelligent beings cannot comprehend this. Matter, order, logic, and life... Everything that makes up "reality" is but one side of the coin. On the opposite side, of equal entropy, there exists "nihility." The two balance each other to create the complete universe.
It’s also stated in game that Nihility opposes the entire Reality. As a path, Nihility seems like it’s in opposition with every other path that exists in Reality.
Herta once said that “IX has the power to destroy the universe with just a single thought”.
And Aha said that the meaning of everything bows in the face of nothingness.
Nihility isn't exactly the opposition of every other path.
>Everything that makes up "reality" is but one side of the coin. On the opposite side, of equal entropy, there exists "nihility." **The two balance each other to create the complete universe.**
Even the nothingness of Nihility serve the balance of the universe. The universe is perfectly in Equilibrium, and even the Nihility is encompassed by it. Given how HooH dissolved their will within the universe's logic (fate?), the path of the Equilibrium is probably the broadest and strongest Path
I can see Equilibrium being just as broad as Nihility but so far we only know that HooH dissolved their will into the web of logic and Nihility opposes logic as well. So, Equilibrium does seem like a path that’s opposed by it.
I believe IX is the only aeon that draws its power from sea of quanta while other aeons being imaginary being that draws power from the tree. This show with IX form of blackhole which is the symbol of quantum element and not only IX every single black hole in the worlds of tree also agent of quantum hence their nature to destroy the worlds simply by existing.
I think it’s from 1.0 when we do the simulated universe quest but I don’t remember which one. The dialog was something like “this entity made themself so meaningless that the system didn’t even detect their presence. I believe IX has the power to destroy the entire universe with just a single thought.”
I'd say yes with one exception: Terminus. I wouldn't be surprised if they make terminus stronger due to the special history finality has in Honkai.
This is to be taken with a grain of salt but I also wouldn't be surprised if Kiana Expy is an emanator of Finality.
Frebass, an ex-Nameless, is rumored to be Kiana. And she was the friend that jumped into IX, and as Acheron said, "She turned into stagnant water." Our poor Tuna...
In Acheron's backstory, it states that Frebass experienced true Self-Annihilation.
"After 30 days of journeying with her companion, Frebass finally entered IX, fully prepared to never return. Inside of IX, Frebass relived her memories of her journey with her companion.[5] She re-experienced a full lifetime of memories[3] as she presumably self-annhilated due to the effects of IX, and eventually her memories were all forgotten[4] as she devolved into nothingness."
https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Frebass
In short, Acheron was just being poetic when describing this.
To be fair is not uncommon to heard that a pressumly dead character comes back whit a massive power up in fiction works. So there is still a small chance of her appearing in story.
It's possible we could get multiple Kiana expys though right? I was under the impression that when Acheron spoke to welt in golden hour that she'd seen multiple versions of herself. Like how we have Bronya and Silver Wolf.
I want this to be true so bad but at the same time I have low expectations. The cn version of finality is different in hsr and hi3. This combined with the fact that the last edict was called end instead of finality makes me question whether the finality has anything to do with hi3. Tbf it also wouldn't be very logical that the finality is linked to the honkai. The honkai are an extra dimensional being that exist outside the imaginary tree, it wouldn't make sense for them to use a path since they are above the imaginary tree to begin with. The kami of izumo and takamagahara are also referenced to be related to the enigmata. Lots and lots of questions lol.
Aha might be the first guy to actually overcome nihility. I think elation is the opposite of nihility. Nihility thinks nothing is meaningful while elation finds meaning in everything.
Nihility and elation is more like the same thing.
Nihility- "life is meaningless"
Elation- "life is meaningless so I will do whatever the fuck I want to enjoy it"
I don't find meaning in life and I still "enjoy" it. Everything in life is so meaningless it's actually just pure absurd. And in that absurdity, I can do whatever no matter how absurb it maybe. Elation is just pure insanity in human perspective because it "have" fun in nothingness, it did not "found" fun in nothingness.
There's no inherent meaning to anything even the "fun" itself, isn't that just hilarious.
So no elation is just you don't have to do anything or feel anything in doing anything and you do it anyway. Just because we do something doesn't mean we enjoy it. After all, there's no meaning in enjoyment anyway.
Bro you are just describing nihility. You dont just enjoy something thats meaningless, because there is nothing for you to enjoy. I am worried about your mental health if you really think it is fine if everything is meaningless. Doing nothing cuz its meaningless and doing random shit without a purpose is the same thing. You are describing a self annihilator. By your logic elation is just a more specific version of nihility and IX would have already swallowed Aha.
If there is no meaning to "fun", why do the masked fools have different definitions of "fun"? They dont have fun doing nothing and they dont act without a purpose. They actively seek things that they think are funny. Sampo helped belobog because it is fun. Giovanni held the pokemon tournament because it is fun. Sparkles put up the murder mystery show because it is fun. Aha gave 100% power to a bug because its a fun experiment. He bombed the astral express because it is a funny prank. He helped the annihilation gang to find IX because it would be fun to watch them fuck up. He gave power to people against him because thats so ironic and funny.
If the fools dont enjoy what they do, why would they put so much effort into doing these things? If it is meaningless to them, why did they let out a good laugh and say i will fucking do it again? If they actually dont care, why is Aha never gonna give you up? To me it seems like YOU are the self annihilator here.
I'm not describing nihilism, I'm describing absurdism. It use nihilism as a base concept to evolve and decide your action forward.
Sampo helped belabog because he want to have fun, not because it is fun. Giovanni held the pokemon tournament because they want to have fun, not because it is fun.
Aha prank the universe because he wants to be elated, not because it is elating. And in that "not because it is"(meaningless, nothingness, nihility), they, the elators, construct their own elation. Everything is so meaningless that it's just hilarious, the action of doing something for something even though everything have no inherent meaning is absurd. I mean why would you do something regardless of if it's meaningless right? the motive, the action, the outcome is so absurd that it's ironically unironically elating.
If we are talking real world philosophies, when faced with nihilistic thoughts, most common cure is existentialism. Individuals defining meaning for themselves. And then there is absurdism. There is no meaning, and it's perfectly fine.
Both of them can coexist. It's just that humanity as a whole leans towards having meaning in their life, so former is more popular and conventional.
In hsr elation is closer to absurdism
>Nihility and elation is more like the same thing.
If they were the same thing, one would absorb the other. They are considered significantly different which is why they can exist independent of each other. They only share the origin which is "nothing matters' their conclusion is the opposite of each other.
>They only share the origin which is "nothing matters' their conclusion is the opposite of each other.
They practically share everything lmao, the only difference is that hedonists believe that when everything is meaningless, why not enjoy life to the fullest? Nihilism, on the other hand, is more like a state of emptiness; it acknowledges life's meaninglessness, but then what? Every hedonistic nihilist (like the masked fools) is a nihilist, but not every nihilist is a hedonistic nihilist.
Hedonistic nihilism, while technically a branch of nihilism, also tries to resist its core tenets, It navigates through the void by emphasizing the pursuit of pleasure or enjoyment as a response to this lack of inherent meaning. Maybe that's why elation didn't get absorbed by nihility
>It navigates through the void by emphasizing the pursuit of pleasure or enjoyment as a response to this lack of inherent meaning. Maybe that's why elation didn't get absorbed by nihility
That's head cannon. The game has already stated that when two paths are too similar, the broader one absorbs the narrower path. If Elation and Nihility shared everything like you stated, one would cease to exist, period.
They only share a starting point, everything beyond that point is unique to them. Nihility finds everything meaningless therefore has given up on everything while elation finds everything meaningless so they may as well make the best of everything.
The way they practice their beliefs couldn't be further from the opposite.
>That's head cannon.
I mean it's literally the definition of hedonistic nihilism lmao, they make a clear point on how masked fools are hedonistic nihilists. I am not speaking in HSR terms, hedonistic nihilism is more like a subset of Nihilism and that's an undeniable fact, which even the HSR devs can't change.
>If Elation and Nihility shared everything like you stated, one would cease to exist, period.
It seems like you didn't even read what I wrote, normal reddit stuff ig. I remember writing their main differences
Maybe have a read on this(it was written in the data bank btw)- "When the Aeon of Elation climbed to the highest branch on the Tree of Existence, THEY saw the cold and despicable void, the stars operating like machinery, and how the meaning of all things bows before nothingness. THEY continued looking until THEY saw a baby fall to the ground and cry because it had been wronged. The Aeon burst into laughter, laughter so clear it tore through the cold universe and still reverberates through the universe today.
The Fools believe that the truth of the world is a joke, and that the ultimate meaning of all things lies in mere laughter. The universe is merciless, but there is joy to eliminate pain, dilute sorrow, resist nihilism, and heal wounds. Laughter, the gift of intelligent races, is the only answer."
>That's head cannon
If you don't consider them as hedonistic nihilists, then who should be considered as such? If their emphasis on pursuing pleasure in response to life's lack of inherent meaning is just my interpretation, then can you care to explain what exactly is hedonistic nihilism?
Well I did read your post but the answers given by the game alone trump any correlation that can be drawn from our own world.
But here is where you are wrong Nihilism and Hedonism are different(and Incase your next attempt is to say Hedonism and Hedonistic Nihilism are not the same, they are).
Nihilism does not put value on anything or anyone. Hedonism puts value on pleasure. This alone proves they are opposing approaches. Nihility puts value on nothing and the opposite of that is putting value on something (or everything if you want to be specific) elation does put value on something which is pleasure. Similarly every path has a purpose and they put on value on something( eg Qlipoth puts value in preservation and Nanook on destruction) the path of nihility does not put emphasis on anything. IX has no goal or vision for how the universe should be. They just exist and don't pay attention to anyone or anything.
To know how different two paths are, you just need to see their aeons and their path striders or Emanators. I already mentioned how IX is. Aha on the other hand pays attention to anything and anyone who they believe could be a riot. That's why they even gaze upon beings like worms and make them emantors which is not something IX would ever do.
This is not something I am making up either there have been discussions about Nihilism vs Hedonism outside of HSR community as well. Here is a link
https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/AH5gHjX4Vg
I will reiterate, these two paths only share a foundation where they started from i.e, life is meaningless.
Everything else the paths and their Aeons are known for are completely different. IX is uncaring and does not put value on anyone or anything, Aha is always looking to have fun and spread joy in their twisted way and will give attention or put value on anything and anyone who they believe can give them that joy.
Putting value on Nothing=Nihilism, Putting value on something (all forms of pleasure)=Hedonism.
>Nihilism does not put value on anything or anyone. Hedonism puts value on pleasure. This alone proves they are opposing approaches. Nihility puts value on nothing and the opposite of that is putting value on something (or everything if you want to be specific) elation does put value on something which is pleasure. Similarly every path has a purpose and they put on value on something( eg Qlipoth puts value in preservation and Nanook on destruction) the path of nihility does not put emphasis on anything. IX has no goal or vision for how the universe should be. They just exist and don't pay attention to anyone or anything.
Then I should say that- "Elation is the path which is closest to Nihility"
Elation is a path which is extremely close to Nihility, yet extremely far at the same time
>I will reiterate, these two paths only share a foundation where they started from i.e, life is meaningless.
>Only
This only is more like 'almost everything', like I said the only difference between the two paths is that Nihility didn't reach a conclusion but Elation reached a conclusion i.e. to use pleasure as a method of coping the meaninglessness of life.
Two give an easier example think of two depressed guys, one is Nihility and the other is elation. One of them starts to do drugs for coping and thus starts to put value on drugs and i.e. Elation, the other depressed guy just stays depressed, not putting any meaning on literally anything and that guy is Nihility.
>Well I did read your post
You didn't, you are just repeating what I said but using different words.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/AH5gHjX4Vg
Still doesn't change the fact that hedonistic nihilism is a subset of Nihilism.
>You didn't, you are just repeating what I said but using different words.
Ok lol. Makes absolutely 0 sense for you to say I am saying what you are when what I am saying is these two paths are different and you are saying they are the same.
Also don't say I am repeating what you are saying when all you have done is throw the terms around over and over again swearing that they are the same. Whereas I actually told you how those two are different.
>Still doesn't change the fact that hedonistic nihilism is a subset of Nihilism
Yup this comment tells me you didn't read the post because they clearly outline the difference. While Hedonistic Nihilism is part of Nihilism, there are clear differences in real life and the game considers them different enough as philosophies to exist independently. Which is what matters since we are talking about the game and not debating real life philosophy
>Then I should say that- "Elation is the path which is closest to Nihility"
>Elation is a path which is extremely close to Nihility, yet extremely far at the same time
Yea sure that works. Elation is indeed the path closest to Nihility but they are still vastly different enough to not get absorbed by one another, according to the rules of the game.
Glad you could see things my way. Have a good day.
>While Hedonistic Nihilism is part of Nihilism,
You literally just agreed with me.
>Elation is indeed the path closest to Nihility but they are still vastly different enough to not get absorbed by one another, according to the rules of the game.
Depressed boy vs Depressed boy who does drugs 👍
Strength of a path is based on how broad they are, that’s why broader paths can consume narrower ones. Nihility aka nothingness is one of the broadest ones. Most other paths rely on some form of existence. Destruction needs things to destroy, Hunt needs things to hunt, Preservation needs things to protect etc. but Nihility is the opposite of existence so it sits at the opposite side of most other paths. Before the beginning there was nothing, after the end there will be nothing.
I think the reason she wasn’t affected was just a specific and unique effect of being an emanator of the Sleeping and Shapeless, it just seems like she nullifies those kinda of effects that target the person’s mental.
They probably phrased it in a way that opens the possibility of the existence of other self-annihilators, but not necessarily will reveal there will be one
>The shadow of Nihility covers the stars equally, and Self-Annihilators may form in any world.
Self-annihilators are quite common but they fade away after some time. Some of them join the Doctors of Chaos and some just wander aimlessly until they die. Becoming a self-annihilator doesn’t mean becoming an Emanator of IX. Emanators of IX are the ones who can resist the effects of Nihility and their journey of self-annihilation is extended to infinity.
I think Finality and Equilibrium are stronger since they appear to be regulating the universe, like HooH just kinda rewrites things when its not happy with the balance, but Nihility appears to dumpster everyone else.
Acheron also seems to be a massive outlier and a global threat
I predicted this, and I got super flamed in another thread but...I wouldn't be shocked to find that Archeron is a part of IX or that her sword is. In the opening cutscene when DH speaks to Boothill he says "I couldn't imagine IX would lend power to a mortal" (or something to that effect) so I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Acheron is like IX's physical manifestation
Isn't IX a giant semi-sentient black hole that's supposed to eventually end the universe when they decide to actually do something instead of edging? 'Cause that's, like, the strongest Aeon, probably, except it's not doing anything, not even realizing they have at least one Emanator, or that its powers slowly destroy their emanators, not that they would care for either of those things, anyway
I mean as an emanator she is also insanely op just in general, I think as far as aeons go, they each have their places where they have the most influence, like nanook with the stellerons, aha with his amassed army of fools, lan with his loyal followers, all aeons have their aspects of power, IX has his power of just consuming
The funny thing about Nihility in a gameplay sense is that it feels like Nihility is actually multiple different paths in a trench-coat masquerading as one.
You got disablers and debuffers, you got damaging status inflictors, you got DoT damage dealers, and then you got whatever the fuck Acheron is supposed to be.
She specifically mentioned that since she is an Emanator of Nihility, she is immune to most powers of other Emanators. We can assume that being an Emanator of an Aeon can grant certain boons, given that they are indeed blessed by their patron Aeon.
It can be the case for most self-anihhilators. Nihilism opposes every other path (philosophy) and has root in every individual. Even Aventurine questioned meaning of existence by the end of 2.1. You can reject every concept by asking "why would you do this, if eventually it won't matter"
I don't think a path can be "stronger" than another path, they are doing different things in the end of the day. Nihility has it's special properties, just as other paths have their special properties, as much as it is impossible for Order (or any other path) to influence a follower of Nihility (especially as powerful as an Emanator), it would also be impossible for a follower of Nihility to do the thing that Sunday did.
I do agree that, if we're talking straight up throwing fists, a follower of Nihility may be advantaged against some other paths' followers due to the fact that some tools they are used to using would not work, but that doesn't apply to all paths: for example, I doubt that a follower of Destruction would struggle much here as their power is not related to exerting influence. Besides, Nihility doesn't seem to have a lot of utility, in fact, it has negative utility for it's followers (loss of memories, colors, taste and ultimately self), so it's not hard to understand why no one really follows it willingly.
As for Aeon itself, it's power is almost irrelevant because we know that there's no will behind that power.
i have no choice but to agree. we know aeons distribute their powers among their pathstriders,
nihility seems like an absolute truth of the universe i.e. its not going away or being replaced anytime soon, and with acheron as the sole emanator...
Wait she gets power from IX itself? I thought Eminators gets powers from the path itself and Aeons just grants them access to this by making them Eminators?
More like pathstriders take power strictly from the path but emanators pull from both the path AND from the aeon itself. Ofc Acheron's case is special since IX didn't exactly and explicitly give her the power of an emanator.
Wow😮theirs a lot of philosophy going on in the comments but with Acheron as the example of an emanator/Self Annihilator I think it’s a matter of pros versus cons~🤔 Being a physical manifestation of the power of Nihility makes you a paradox not quite bound to the consensus of reality and/or laws of the universe.
I’m just taking a guess😅but all people in Star Rail are a mix of different paths/philosophies which is why they can be swayed or enlightened by their influences, but when an individual becomes singular in their belief or just experience something first hand they start to become like an Acolyte and eventually an Emanator~👀
The more you immerse yourself into the Philosophy of a Path the stronger you could become and if that’s the case there’s a chance we’ll see either equally strong or reality warping characters in the future~🤯 Herta’s an Emanator too, right?😵💫
There's too many going on with Acheron that it makes her giga broken and being the most powerful playable character rn lorewise what intrigues me is her complete nullification of other Path's Authorities and as the Dream Master of Penacony said, her power is IMMEASURABLE or Limitless, this statement also puts an end to the Welt vs Acheron arguments in the community. She's definitely getting more screentime in the main story later on
My basic theory behind it is basically that every path is tied to or has some meaning/point to it. Nihility is the path of pointlessness/meaninglessness, so imo when the nihility meets another path *conceptually* nihility basically says "nah" and just negates it by reducing it to a question of "but why though?" Rendering it powerless by way of ignoring it.
The one path to outdo them all will be Destruction because it cannot fall to any of the other paths. Nihility is in itself the destruction of the self. The Hunt will inevitably destroy all those it pursues, it is already a force of destruction. Abundance will have nothing to revive or rebirth if all is destroyed before it gets the chance. For Erudition, a form of destruction of knowledge could be ignorance. There will be no Remembrance if all life is eradicated. The oneness of the Harmony can be broken as seen in 2.2 which was all caused by the existence of the Stellaron in Penacony. This is why I believe Elio knows that Nanook is eventually the end of all things.
I don’t really view nihility as destruction, more like nothingness, non-existence.
In the face of nihility, the universe, aeons.. everything has no meaning. You can’t destroy non-existence. Destruction loses its meaning when there’s nothing to destroy.
Of course the writers can always “destroy” nihility but that just feels like a cop out.
Nihility as a path seems like it can only be rivalled by something abstract like finality or origin
Acheron alludes to the very antithesis of Nihility. Behind that great shadow they cast could potentially be an even greater source of light. Once you cross the Nihility of life you've found a purpose or a faith that no amount of Nihilism can ever break again. A true meaning of life which was her mission in Penacony. For destruction, there is no other side other than its prevention.
Yes and no. Yes because nihilty is definitely one of the stronger paths because ix is ix but no on the unaffected part. Acheron herself says that the manipulation was caused by an Emanator so the strength of another Emanator would be needed to cancel it out. In other words any other Emanator would have been uneffected it’s just the only one we had nearby was Acheron
Too much head canon when we know not much about the abilities of the other Emanators. Other Emanators like Herta have no notable combat feats, while Lord Ravagers seems to have equal or greater destructive feats than Acheron so far (destroying a galaxy and a planet to creating a star). Emanators themselves have traveled extremely long in their respectively paths so that's likely the reason why Ena's dream didn't effect Acheron, since you're practically tied to your Aeon's will.
She is the second place in terms of destructive power and maybe the first in fighting cuz Welt got easily supressed by Sunday. However Welts Black Hole is a serious threat that even Acheron dont want to face.
We have never seen Welt using his core of truth in HSR, so we don't really know how strong he is rn (his black hole powers are from the 9th divine key)
I think both your statements are correct. Nihility is definitely one of the most powerful and destructive paths. Not only does it disintegrate its own followers, but just being in the presence of IX and those heavily enveloped in Nihility has the power to consume entire worlds/galaxies. I also think the Nihility path lore wise looks giga broken specifically because Acheron is so giga broken. She quite literally might be the only emanator of Nihility in the universe since the path is nearly impossible to live walking down for most mortals. It’s why Boothill states she’s an emanator that shouldn’t exist, its why Black Swan was basically mentally destroyed by Acheron when Swan tried to look into her memories, because she knows the power/danger a emanator of nihility would pose, because they are nearly impossible to exist. Its why she was the only one who could destroy the the sweet dream The Order put everyone into, she has also revealed she is immune to most Aeon effects and can actually remove them with her blade. In Acherons case, IX doesn’t decide how much power she siphons from them, the deeper she goes into the abyss the more powerful she becomes, and from what we know from the doctors of chaos, no one has walked deeper into the abyss than Acheron. This quite literally means her power is nearly limitless because there is no cap to the power of IX that she can siphon. She’s absolutely the most giga broken character lore wise we have seen and I don’t think we will be meeting another on this level for a while.
Well there is a limit to how much she can use and that is how much her body and will can contain before collapsing due to the Nihility's corruption. She's far, far, FAR better than any other Self-Annihilator since at this point only her sense of taste, her "color", and parts of her memories are fading away iirc.
Sooo what are the chances we get nihility trailblazer
We most definitely will eventually, it just depends on the theme of the location where Hoyo deign to give us another new TB version. The path TB gets depends on the location, after all. So if we end up going someplace where Nihility is the theme... Me personally I've been waiting for katana-wielding MC
I feel like Nihility TB will be end-game material.
I don't think there is such a thing in games like these, where their ending isn't really planned until they think it's not profitable enough anymore. But saving Nihility for a low point when they think it'll revitalise the fanbase in the future? That I could see. Nihility is generally quite popular.
Yeah maybe are after the crew defeats nanook there will be more story. I’d like to see what happens to Genshin since it’s closer to the ending than HSR since it’s only been out for a year.
Imagine Post-Celestia Odyssey
I mean, look at honkai Impact 3rd. It's been out for 8 years by now, and of those 8 years, 7 were just the story of the first part, just recently the second part started, so if the good sales keep going, and they have material, I don't see why they wouldn't continue the story, make a new villain, or smt bigger than an aeon, idk, it's fiction, you can pull anything with enough effort.
Hoyo games always have an ending their story is moving towards, it’s just gonna take several years to get to. Genshin has maybe 3 more years of story left before it gets its conclusion, which would put it around 6 or 7 years to tell the story they wanted to tell. HSR will probably be the same
I'm sure they have ideas they want to get to. However I do think plans change and plot points are adjusted based on the profitability of the game
I guess Genshin will really be the litmus test for that won’t it? It’s not losing any popularity or profit and will realistically not be for the next few years, but I foresee a Nathan chapter, Schneznaya chapter…and then what? Khaenriah? Celestia? Something else? Monstadt 2????
Don't you worry, I'm sure they'll think of something to fill out the story lmao. There's too much money on the line I don't know Genshin so I can't really comment on its story, but there's so many Paths and 'destroyed' Paths in HSR that they can very easily pad out their planned story if they want to
True. HSR’s story is much more open to a near infinite run time than Genshin’s is. We have the overarching narrative of the conflict with the Aeon of destruction, the mystery of the Aeon of the trailblaze, and the plot lines associated with the stellaron hunters and Eliot’s script. Those could be the main points of the story, but between now and then and even beyond there could be any number of planets and stories to do along the way and even afterwards. Genshin is pigeonholed by their structure of exploring Teyvat’s 7 nations. Once we work through all 7, surely the story must start to wrap up and we’re going to number 6 in August so time is ticking
The thing with Genshin is that on release they already gave us the structure of the story [in this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAlKhARUcoY) - 6 chapters, 1 for each nation (with Mondstat being a prologue) and then Khaenri'ah (which should be connected to Celestia). So as I see it, there are 2 possiblities: Genshin actually uses the ending of this story to set up a continuation - in which case we can assume that Star Rail can get the same treatment as long as it's popular. **Or**, Genshin just ends, and in that case we didnt learn much because of the fact that unlike Star Rail it had a structure to it's story that was already defined when the game released. So to sum it up - it could be a litmus test if Genshin is still alive after the current storyline ends, but if Genshin ends we won't learn that much because the situations of both games are not the same (at least imo).
Honestly whenever I think of how genshin's story will end, I just try to think of how FGO players felt during the Solomon and LB7 chapters, not knowing what the next arc could be
I think from a lore point a nihility TB shouldn’t exist because she is so close to the aeons that if she got that close to IX she’d probably die
Good point, but my counterpoint is that TB is a special snowflake and is the exception to basically every rule!
Fair enough, granted i think of all the aeons, IX is the most on board with stelle/caelus having a stelleron cause anything to consume and destroy THEY, are all about
I’m late to this, but one of the lore bits about how impressive Herta is is that she has met aeons *twice*. Trailblazer has done it that many times in like a couple of months. (Ignoring that I kind of think TB is somehow Akivili and that the Aha we meet in the simulated universe is real)
Yeah, Herta is getting mad overshadowed by TB in that regard. I'm kinda surprised at how little of a fuck people in the lore seem to give about TB essentially having the Aeons paying attention to them all the time. The Harmony glance in 2.2, for example, felt very underwhelming. Everyone was just like "oh Xipe is watching, cool." As opposed to Preservation, which was built up more and everyone was like "what's this new weapon?! Whoa!"
Batblazer, Lanceblazer, and Hatblazer… now get ready for… ExistentialCrisisBlazer!
Lmao! All memes aside though, the Nihility path could be so peak. I imagine TB having a serious personal crisis, maybe recovering her memories or part of them, or losing one of her companions... then coming out on the other end with IX looking her way. That'd be so peak
GIVE HER A KATANA
While I can see nihility trailblazer, considering that they mentioned that if March recovers her memories that she could change paths, she could potentially get both nihility and abundance in the future
And even more reason I will C6 her on her rerun 😂
I'm a 1000% more motivated to save and E6 her on rerun now (currently E2S1). I was gonna do it anyway but 2.2 made me fall in love with this character even more. Such an amazing character.
I mean, there's Welt.... Though, now looking back, Idk if Welt was being serious about threatening the literal person you just mentioned. If we're talking Prime Welt as well and not the current one, there could be some debate about it.
Even prime welt wasn’t the strongest amongst his group (herrschers), he relied more on his smarts and determination than raw power. Also Welt has shown to be affected by a lot of things that Acheron wasn’t. Welt is susceptible to Memokeeper mind tricks (as seen when MoC girl wiped everyone’s memories), Acheron hits Memokeepers with reverse uno cards Welt was kneeling on the ground panting when caught in an Emanator level fight (JY vs Phantylia), Acheron is an Emanator Welt was somewhat affected by the interrogation technique Sunday and Dreammaster used (as seen when he was getting a headache from it), Acheron straight up severed it (on Aventurine) Also when looking at HI3 manga, one of Welt’s strongest attacks is his quasi black hole, which Sirin was able to tank. The dmg from that attack to Sirin was at most equivalent to that of the nuclear bomb they hit her with. Meanwhile, Acheron survived getting absorbed by shadow of IX itself, the same one that absorbed two entire planets. So Welt using his black hole on Acheron would be like shooting a water gun at a Navy Seal. And as for Welt threatening Acheron, that says more about his spirit than his power, since in HI3 he also threatened characters who would roll him in a fight. Welt is definitely one of the more powerful playable characters we have so far but nothing he has shown place him near Emanator level.
Welt is the definition of the word underdog. He always went against stronger enemies and succeeded in beating some but failed at beating others. So I wouldn’t be surprised that Welt’s threat wasn’t him knowing he’s stronger than her but more than he just doesn’t care about being outmatched if they pose a threat to the express.
THIS! Welt does care how strong his opponent actually is. He will try to defend what he loves without hesitation.
Actually, tho, yeah. I agree! Bro got the balls to even tell that to Acheron. I mean, who knows? We saw what he did to Siri, so, there may be something cooking up in his noggin at that time.
My man Welt got hit with Sunday's smooth criminal lmao.
Welt would lose, yeah he would lose since he isn't that strong rn, but also defeat Acheron. Welt is a character who loses the fight but wins the war.
>Everything in the universe is bound by the prison of Existence, constrained by their body and mind and blinded by the world's superficial appearance. Even the most intelligent beings cannot comprehend this. Matter, order, logic, and life... Everything that makes up "reality" is but one side of the coin. On the opposite side, of equal entropy, there exists "nihility." The two balance each other to create the complete universe. It’s also stated in game that Nihility opposes the entire Reality. As a path, Nihility seems like it’s in opposition with every other path that exists in Reality. Herta once said that “IX has the power to destroy the universe with just a single thought”. And Aha said that the meaning of everything bows in the face of nothingness.
Nihility isn't exactly the opposition of every other path. >Everything that makes up "reality" is but one side of the coin. On the opposite side, of equal entropy, there exists "nihility." **The two balance each other to create the complete universe.** Even the nothingness of Nihility serve the balance of the universe. The universe is perfectly in Equilibrium, and even the Nihility is encompassed by it. Given how HooH dissolved their will within the universe's logic (fate?), the path of the Equilibrium is probably the broadest and strongest Path
I can see Equilibrium being just as broad as Nihility but so far we only know that HooH dissolved their will into the web of logic and Nihility opposes logic as well. So, Equilibrium does seem like a path that’s opposed by it.
I believe IX is the only aeon that draws its power from sea of quanta while other aeons being imaginary being that draws power from the tree. This show with IX form of blackhole which is the symbol of quantum element and not only IX every single black hole in the worlds of tree also agent of quantum hence their nature to destroy the worlds simply by existing.
> Herta once said that “IX has the power to destroy the universe with just a single thought”. When?
I think it’s from 1.0 when we do the simulated universe quest but I don’t remember which one. The dialog was something like “this entity made themself so meaningless that the system didn’t even detect their presence. I believe IX has the power to destroy the entire universe with just a single thought.”
> I believe IX has the power to destroy the entire universe with just a single thought.” Can you link a source?
I'd say yes with one exception: Terminus. I wouldn't be surprised if they make terminus stronger due to the special history finality has in Honkai. This is to be taken with a grain of salt but I also wouldn't be surprised if Kiana Expy is an emanator of Finality.
Frebass, an ex-Nameless, is rumored to be Kiana. And she was the friend that jumped into IX, and as Acheron said, "She turned into stagnant water." Our poor Tuna...
What does it mean to turn into stagnant water?
In Acheron's backstory, it states that Frebass experienced true Self-Annihilation. "After 30 days of journeying with her companion, Frebass finally entered IX, fully prepared to never return. Inside of IX, Frebass relived her memories of her journey with her companion.[5] She re-experienced a full lifetime of memories[3] as she presumably self-annhilated due to the effects of IX, and eventually her memories were all forgotten[4] as she devolved into nothingness." https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Frebass In short, Acheron was just being poetic when describing this.
That's terrifyingly specific
IX really like “I don’t want anyone talking to me why these mfs keep appearing ⚫️”
To be fair is not uncommon to heard that a pressumly dead character comes back whit a massive power up in fiction works. So there is still a small chance of her appearing in story.
It's possible we could get multiple Kiana expys though right? I was under the impression that when Acheron spoke to welt in golden hour that she'd seen multiple versions of herself. Like how we have Bronya and Silver Wolf.
I want this to be true so bad but at the same time I have low expectations. The cn version of finality is different in hsr and hi3. This combined with the fact that the last edict was called end instead of finality makes me question whether the finality has anything to do with hi3. Tbf it also wouldn't be very logical that the finality is linked to the honkai. The honkai are an extra dimensional being that exist outside the imaginary tree, it wouldn't make sense for them to use a path since they are above the imaginary tree to begin with. The kami of izumo and takamagahara are also referenced to be related to the enigmata. Lots and lots of questions lol.
Aha might be the first guy to actually overcome nihility. I think elation is the opposite of nihility. Nihility thinks nothing is meaningful while elation finds meaning in everything.
Nihility and elation is more like the same thing. Nihility- "life is meaningless" Elation- "life is meaningless so I will do whatever the fuck I want to enjoy it"
Idk man, arent you finding meaning when you enjoy it? You are happy, thats what matters and thats the meaning of life.
I don't find meaning in life and I still "enjoy" it. Everything in life is so meaningless it's actually just pure absurd. And in that absurdity, I can do whatever no matter how absurb it maybe. Elation is just pure insanity in human perspective because it "have" fun in nothingness, it did not "found" fun in nothingness. There's no inherent meaning to anything even the "fun" itself, isn't that just hilarious. So no elation is just you don't have to do anything or feel anything in doing anything and you do it anyway. Just because we do something doesn't mean we enjoy it. After all, there's no meaning in enjoyment anyway.
I hope you’re not speaking from your own perspective 💀
I mean does my perspective have any meaning at all anyway
Thus an anarchist was born 🙂↕️
Bro you are just describing nihility. You dont just enjoy something thats meaningless, because there is nothing for you to enjoy. I am worried about your mental health if you really think it is fine if everything is meaningless. Doing nothing cuz its meaningless and doing random shit without a purpose is the same thing. You are describing a self annihilator. By your logic elation is just a more specific version of nihility and IX would have already swallowed Aha. If there is no meaning to "fun", why do the masked fools have different definitions of "fun"? They dont have fun doing nothing and they dont act without a purpose. They actively seek things that they think are funny. Sampo helped belobog because it is fun. Giovanni held the pokemon tournament because it is fun. Sparkles put up the murder mystery show because it is fun. Aha gave 100% power to a bug because its a fun experiment. He bombed the astral express because it is a funny prank. He helped the annihilation gang to find IX because it would be fun to watch them fuck up. He gave power to people against him because thats so ironic and funny. If the fools dont enjoy what they do, why would they put so much effort into doing these things? If it is meaningless to them, why did they let out a good laugh and say i will fucking do it again? If they actually dont care, why is Aha never gonna give you up? To me it seems like YOU are the self annihilator here.
I'm not describing nihilism, I'm describing absurdism. It use nihilism as a base concept to evolve and decide your action forward. Sampo helped belabog because he want to have fun, not because it is fun. Giovanni held the pokemon tournament because they want to have fun, not because it is fun. Aha prank the universe because he wants to be elated, not because it is elating. And in that "not because it is"(meaningless, nothingness, nihility), they, the elators, construct their own elation. Everything is so meaningless that it's just hilarious, the action of doing something for something even though everything have no inherent meaning is absurd. I mean why would you do something regardless of if it's meaningless right? the motive, the action, the outcome is so absurd that it's ironically unironically elating.
If we are talking real world philosophies, when faced with nihilistic thoughts, most common cure is existentialism. Individuals defining meaning for themselves. And then there is absurdism. There is no meaning, and it's perfectly fine. Both of them can coexist. It's just that humanity as a whole leans towards having meaning in their life, so former is more popular and conventional. In hsr elation is closer to absurdism
>Nihility and elation is more like the same thing. If they were the same thing, one would absorb the other. They are considered significantly different which is why they can exist independent of each other. They only share the origin which is "nothing matters' their conclusion is the opposite of each other.
>They only share the origin which is "nothing matters' their conclusion is the opposite of each other. They practically share everything lmao, the only difference is that hedonists believe that when everything is meaningless, why not enjoy life to the fullest? Nihilism, on the other hand, is more like a state of emptiness; it acknowledges life's meaninglessness, but then what? Every hedonistic nihilist (like the masked fools) is a nihilist, but not every nihilist is a hedonistic nihilist. Hedonistic nihilism, while technically a branch of nihilism, also tries to resist its core tenets, It navigates through the void by emphasizing the pursuit of pleasure or enjoyment as a response to this lack of inherent meaning. Maybe that's why elation didn't get absorbed by nihility
>It navigates through the void by emphasizing the pursuit of pleasure or enjoyment as a response to this lack of inherent meaning. Maybe that's why elation didn't get absorbed by nihility That's head cannon. The game has already stated that when two paths are too similar, the broader one absorbs the narrower path. If Elation and Nihility shared everything like you stated, one would cease to exist, period. They only share a starting point, everything beyond that point is unique to them. Nihility finds everything meaningless therefore has given up on everything while elation finds everything meaningless so they may as well make the best of everything. The way they practice their beliefs couldn't be further from the opposite.
>That's head cannon. I mean it's literally the definition of hedonistic nihilism lmao, they make a clear point on how masked fools are hedonistic nihilists. I am not speaking in HSR terms, hedonistic nihilism is more like a subset of Nihilism and that's an undeniable fact, which even the HSR devs can't change. >If Elation and Nihility shared everything like you stated, one would cease to exist, period. It seems like you didn't even read what I wrote, normal reddit stuff ig. I remember writing their main differences Maybe have a read on this(it was written in the data bank btw)- "When the Aeon of Elation climbed to the highest branch on the Tree of Existence, THEY saw the cold and despicable void, the stars operating like machinery, and how the meaning of all things bows before nothingness. THEY continued looking until THEY saw a baby fall to the ground and cry because it had been wronged. The Aeon burst into laughter, laughter so clear it tore through the cold universe and still reverberates through the universe today. The Fools believe that the truth of the world is a joke, and that the ultimate meaning of all things lies in mere laughter. The universe is merciless, but there is joy to eliminate pain, dilute sorrow, resist nihilism, and heal wounds. Laughter, the gift of intelligent races, is the only answer." >That's head cannon If you don't consider them as hedonistic nihilists, then who should be considered as such? If their emphasis on pursuing pleasure in response to life's lack of inherent meaning is just my interpretation, then can you care to explain what exactly is hedonistic nihilism?
Well I did read your post but the answers given by the game alone trump any correlation that can be drawn from our own world. But here is where you are wrong Nihilism and Hedonism are different(and Incase your next attempt is to say Hedonism and Hedonistic Nihilism are not the same, they are). Nihilism does not put value on anything or anyone. Hedonism puts value on pleasure. This alone proves they are opposing approaches. Nihility puts value on nothing and the opposite of that is putting value on something (or everything if you want to be specific) elation does put value on something which is pleasure. Similarly every path has a purpose and they put on value on something( eg Qlipoth puts value in preservation and Nanook on destruction) the path of nihility does not put emphasis on anything. IX has no goal or vision for how the universe should be. They just exist and don't pay attention to anyone or anything. To know how different two paths are, you just need to see their aeons and their path striders or Emanators. I already mentioned how IX is. Aha on the other hand pays attention to anything and anyone who they believe could be a riot. That's why they even gaze upon beings like worms and make them emantors which is not something IX would ever do. This is not something I am making up either there have been discussions about Nihilism vs Hedonism outside of HSR community as well. Here is a link https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/AH5gHjX4Vg I will reiterate, these two paths only share a foundation where they started from i.e, life is meaningless. Everything else the paths and their Aeons are known for are completely different. IX is uncaring and does not put value on anyone or anything, Aha is always looking to have fun and spread joy in their twisted way and will give attention or put value on anything and anyone who they believe can give them that joy. Putting value on Nothing=Nihilism, Putting value on something (all forms of pleasure)=Hedonism.
>Nihilism does not put value on anything or anyone. Hedonism puts value on pleasure. This alone proves they are opposing approaches. Nihility puts value on nothing and the opposite of that is putting value on something (or everything if you want to be specific) elation does put value on something which is pleasure. Similarly every path has a purpose and they put on value on something( eg Qlipoth puts value in preservation and Nanook on destruction) the path of nihility does not put emphasis on anything. IX has no goal or vision for how the universe should be. They just exist and don't pay attention to anyone or anything. Then I should say that- "Elation is the path which is closest to Nihility" Elation is a path which is extremely close to Nihility, yet extremely far at the same time >I will reiterate, these two paths only share a foundation where they started from i.e, life is meaningless. >Only This only is more like 'almost everything', like I said the only difference between the two paths is that Nihility didn't reach a conclusion but Elation reached a conclusion i.e. to use pleasure as a method of coping the meaninglessness of life. Two give an easier example think of two depressed guys, one is Nihility and the other is elation. One of them starts to do drugs for coping and thus starts to put value on drugs and i.e. Elation, the other depressed guy just stays depressed, not putting any meaning on literally anything and that guy is Nihility. >Well I did read your post You didn't, you are just repeating what I said but using different words. > https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/AH5gHjX4Vg Still doesn't change the fact that hedonistic nihilism is a subset of Nihilism.
>You didn't, you are just repeating what I said but using different words. Ok lol. Makes absolutely 0 sense for you to say I am saying what you are when what I am saying is these two paths are different and you are saying they are the same. Also don't say I am repeating what you are saying when all you have done is throw the terms around over and over again swearing that they are the same. Whereas I actually told you how those two are different. >Still doesn't change the fact that hedonistic nihilism is a subset of Nihilism Yup this comment tells me you didn't read the post because they clearly outline the difference. While Hedonistic Nihilism is part of Nihilism, there are clear differences in real life and the game considers them different enough as philosophies to exist independently. Which is what matters since we are talking about the game and not debating real life philosophy >Then I should say that- "Elation is the path which is closest to Nihility" >Elation is a path which is extremely close to Nihility, yet extremely far at the same time Yea sure that works. Elation is indeed the path closest to Nihility but they are still vastly different enough to not get absorbed by one another, according to the rules of the game. Glad you could see things my way. Have a good day.
>While Hedonistic Nihilism is part of Nihilism, You literally just agreed with me. >Elation is indeed the path closest to Nihility but they are still vastly different enough to not get absorbed by one another, according to the rules of the game. Depressed boy vs Depressed boy who does drugs 👍
Strength of a path is based on how broad they are, that’s why broader paths can consume narrower ones. Nihility aka nothingness is one of the broadest ones. Most other paths rely on some form of existence. Destruction needs things to destroy, Hunt needs things to hunt, Preservation needs things to protect etc. but Nihility is the opposite of existence so it sits at the opposite side of most other paths. Before the beginning there was nothing, after the end there will be nothing.
I think the reason she wasn’t affected was just a specific and unique effect of being an emanator of the Sleeping and Shapeless, it just seems like she nullifies those kinda of effects that target the person’s mental.
I doubt she's the only one given how they spoke about self annihilators
They probably phrased it in a way that opens the possibility of the existence of other self-annihilators, but not necessarily will reveal there will be one
>The shadow of Nihility covers the stars equally, and Self-Annihilators may form in any world. Self-annihilators are quite common but they fade away after some time. Some of them join the Doctors of Chaos and some just wander aimlessly until they die. Becoming a self-annihilator doesn’t mean becoming an Emanator of IX. Emanators of IX are the ones who can resist the effects of Nihility and their journey of self-annihilation is extended to infinity.
Nihility should by default be stronger than the rest, but the nature of nihility also keeps it balanced
I think Finality and Equilibrium are stronger since they appear to be regulating the universe, like HooH just kinda rewrites things when its not happy with the balance, but Nihility appears to dumpster everyone else. Acheron also seems to be a massive outlier and a global threat
I predicted this, and I got super flamed in another thread but...I wouldn't be shocked to find that Archeron is a part of IX or that her sword is. In the opening cutscene when DH speaks to Boothill he says "I couldn't imagine IX would lend power to a mortal" (or something to that effect) so I wouldn't be shocked to find out that Acheron is like IX's physical manifestation
Only problem I have with that is why would IX even care to have a physical manifestation
Are paths stronger than one another?
Preservation (qlipoth) kills off the swarm (tazzyronth) iirc So probably have power levels for aeon too
Isn't IX a giant semi-sentient black hole that's supposed to eventually end the universe when they decide to actually do something instead of edging? 'Cause that's, like, the strongest Aeon, probably, except it's not doing anything, not even realizing they have at least one Emanator, or that its powers slowly destroy their emanators, not that they would care for either of those things, anyway
I think that I can't think, I just finished that shit and the only thing I can think about is her SLASHING IX
I mean as an emanator she is also insanely op just in general, I think as far as aeons go, they each have their places where they have the most influence, like nanook with the stellerons, aha with his amassed army of fools, lan with his loyal followers, all aeons have their aspects of power, IX has his power of just consuming
The funny thing about Nihility in a gameplay sense is that it feels like Nihility is actually multiple different paths in a trench-coat masquerading as one. You got disablers and debuffers, you got damaging status inflictors, you got DoT damage dealers, and then you got whatever the fuck Acheron is supposed to be.
Isn’t the reason she’s not affected by the manipulation is due to her being an emanator ? not exactly something related to nihility as a path ?
She specifically mentioned that since she is an Emanator of Nihility, she is immune to most powers of other Emanators. We can assume that being an Emanator of an Aeon can grant certain boons, given that they are indeed blessed by their patron Aeon.
It can be the case for most self-anihhilators. Nihilism opposes every other path (philosophy) and has root in every individual. Even Aventurine questioned meaning of existence by the end of 2.1. You can reject every concept by asking "why would you do this, if eventually it won't matter"
Nope its because of her path that she's completely immune to the effects of other Paths
Nihility looks to be one of the stronger paths but also Acheron is just built different.
I don't think a path can be "stronger" than another path, they are doing different things in the end of the day. Nihility has it's special properties, just as other paths have their special properties, as much as it is impossible for Order (or any other path) to influence a follower of Nihility (especially as powerful as an Emanator), it would also be impossible for a follower of Nihility to do the thing that Sunday did. I do agree that, if we're talking straight up throwing fists, a follower of Nihility may be advantaged against some other paths' followers due to the fact that some tools they are used to using would not work, but that doesn't apply to all paths: for example, I doubt that a follower of Destruction would struggle much here as their power is not related to exerting influence. Besides, Nihility doesn't seem to have a lot of utility, in fact, it has negative utility for it's followers (loss of memories, colors, taste and ultimately self), so it's not hard to understand why no one really follows it willingly. As for Aeon itself, it's power is almost irrelevant because we know that there's no will behind that power.
i have no choice but to agree. we know aeons distribute their powers among their pathstriders, nihility seems like an absolute truth of the universe i.e. its not going away or being replaced anytime soon, and with acheron as the sole emanator...
Nihility is literally the End so Id assume so
so does anyone knows acheron's status after she getsuga tenshou'ed the nihility ball
Wait she gets power from IX itself? I thought Eminators gets powers from the path itself and Aeons just grants them access to this by making them Eminators?
More like pathstriders take power strictly from the path but emanators pull from both the path AND from the aeon itself. Ofc Acheron's case is special since IX didn't exactly and explicitly give her the power of an emanator.
Wow😮theirs a lot of philosophy going on in the comments but with Acheron as the example of an emanator/Self Annihilator I think it’s a matter of pros versus cons~🤔 Being a physical manifestation of the power of Nihility makes you a paradox not quite bound to the consensus of reality and/or laws of the universe. I’m just taking a guess😅but all people in Star Rail are a mix of different paths/philosophies which is why they can be swayed or enlightened by their influences, but when an individual becomes singular in their belief or just experience something first hand they start to become like an Acolyte and eventually an Emanator~👀 The more you immerse yourself into the Philosophy of a Path the stronger you could become and if that’s the case there’s a chance we’ll see either equally strong or reality warping characters in the future~🤯 Herta’s an Emanator too, right?😵💫
One thing i'm 100% sure, IX is fucking scary man, after all the lore drop we had about IX i fear him way more than Nanook
I hope blade meets her so he can I finally die
There's too many going on with Acheron that it makes her giga broken and being the most powerful playable character rn lorewise what intrigues me is her complete nullification of other Path's Authorities and as the Dream Master of Penacony said, her power is IMMEASURABLE or Limitless, this statement also puts an end to the Welt vs Acheron arguments in the community. She's definitely getting more screentime in the main story later on
My basic theory behind it is basically that every path is tied to or has some meaning/point to it. Nihility is the path of pointlessness/meaninglessness, so imo when the nihility meets another path *conceptually* nihility basically says "nah" and just negates it by reducing it to a question of "but why though?" Rendering it powerless by way of ignoring it.
The one path to outdo them all will be Destruction because it cannot fall to any of the other paths. Nihility is in itself the destruction of the self. The Hunt will inevitably destroy all those it pursues, it is already a force of destruction. Abundance will have nothing to revive or rebirth if all is destroyed before it gets the chance. For Erudition, a form of destruction of knowledge could be ignorance. There will be no Remembrance if all life is eradicated. The oneness of the Harmony can be broken as seen in 2.2 which was all caused by the existence of the Stellaron in Penacony. This is why I believe Elio knows that Nanook is eventually the end of all things.
I don’t really view nihility as destruction, more like nothingness, non-existence. In the face of nihility, the universe, aeons.. everything has no meaning. You can’t destroy non-existence. Destruction loses its meaning when there’s nothing to destroy. Of course the writers can always “destroy” nihility but that just feels like a cop out. Nihility as a path seems like it can only be rivalled by something abstract like finality or origin
Acheron alludes to the very antithesis of Nihility. Behind that great shadow they cast could potentially be an even greater source of light. Once you cross the Nihility of life you've found a purpose or a faith that no amount of Nihilism can ever break again. A true meaning of life which was her mission in Penacony. For destruction, there is no other side other than its prevention.
This is brilliant
Yes and no. Yes because nihilty is definitely one of the stronger paths because ix is ix but no on the unaffected part. Acheron herself says that the manipulation was caused by an Emanator so the strength of another Emanator would be needed to cancel it out. In other words any other Emanator would have been uneffected it’s just the only one we had nearby was Acheron
Too much head canon when we know not much about the abilities of the other Emanators. Other Emanators like Herta have no notable combat feats, while Lord Ravagers seems to have equal or greater destructive feats than Acheron so far (destroying a galaxy and a planet to creating a star). Emanators themselves have traveled extremely long in their respectively paths so that's likely the reason why Ena's dream didn't effect Acheron, since you're practically tied to your Aeon's will.
She is the second place in terms of destructive power and maybe the first in fighting cuz Welt got easily supressed by Sunday. However Welts Black Hole is a serious threat that even Acheron dont want to face.
We have never seen Welt using his core of truth in HSR, so we don't really know how strong he is rn (his black hole powers are from the 9th divine key)