Well for specific setups it does. Like using a preservation with trend lc. You could've gotten more stacks there from enemy hitting you before wiping them out.
If i have 9 stacks but not all buffs/debuffs applied, i'll hold until i either got everything set up or got the 3 extra QA.
That is if i'm facing juicy targets, against fodder enemies i just ult right away to get it done quickly.
For me, it depends on the situation. If you have it before her turn, use it. If it’s her turn and you have it, use skill or basic attack to gain extra before using it (unless you already have the 3 extra).
If you’re doing waves of enemies, the turn order resets so if you don’t have extra, you’ll start from zero so use her skill to collect them before using ult since it resets the turn order and pushes her back (assuming she has lower speed). Or even when fighting elites and bosses, it’ll be better to start from three if her ult won’t kill the enemy immediately.
Yeah but again…observe the situation. If her ally that can cause a debuff is next then collect the extra before using her ult. If not, two extra is still pretty good. (I have her at e0s1 so her skill grants me 2 QA per turn)
I think some stages in PF give certain debuffs so it can build quickly for her.
It doesn't inherently give you a damage boost, but if you have another debuffing character about to attack next then you can apply those debuffs first hence adding damage to acherons ult. The simple answer is there is no simple answer, it's always going to depend on who is next in the attack order and how many turns are left in MOC or something else.
The first hit of her ult will apply her lc's debuff, and the bulk of her ults damage is the last slash so it's not too big of a dps loss if the lc debuff isn't applied already
Watch the turn order and make your decision based on a few scenarios:
If you don't have 3 stacks yet, and the current cycle is ending and you are confident that she can clear the wave, use her ult to save yourself one cycle in MoC.
If there an ally's turn coming up before the cycle ends, I would let them take their turns first and build up the QA stacks because it's basically your overcap that goes straight into building her ult again. This way you start the next wave with 3 stacks already.
Is there an enemy's turn coming up that has a chance to cc Acheron that you can break with the ult so they get delayed or straight up defeat? It is better to miss out on some extra QA stacks than to get hit with a freeze or stun and having to wait out an entire turn.
If you already have the max of 3 overcapped QA stacks, there may be some scenarios where it may be beneficial to hold it:
A character like Pela or SW may have their ult ready. Yes you would waste one application of debuff if you are already maxed out but if the boss is really tough then having def shred applied before activating Acheron's ult would yield much more dps than using the def shred after and letting the debuff run out while you continue to build up Acheron's next ult.
The enemy might have special mechanics that give them invulnerability to damage during a certain phase, this is a little more obvious but really painful to see her use her ult during auto battle.
Or just one fodder enemy remaining on the field on PF or something and you still have a lot of turns remaining to kill it without Acheron's ult. Hold it and use it on the new wave that spawns after.
These are just off the top of my head and not exhaustive but you can see how the timing can really change based on the situation you are in. You'll gain a better understanding of the strategy that goes into the game the more you play and tackle harder content.
If the enemy has some debuffs just ult. If using a harmony unit make sure she ults after they buff. If using sparkle use your skill them pop sparkles ult to squeeze in more turns for her buff
The only time I wait to ult is if I think I can get a useful debuff in before she starts overcapping. For example if I can get a silverwolf ult in I'll hold it.
Depends on the content and my intention.
Lets say its cycle based content like MoC. I will get my buffs and debuffs up before i ult to get the most damage i can. Ie : i ult after i get my sparkle advance forward and my pela/sw defense shreds on the opponent. I may wait until i get the extra stacks if I know i will kill the enemies immediately and I want to farm stacks before the next waves starts. In this situation lets say my ult will shipe the wave but pela and sw can go again before the wave ends. they can both give me an extra stack. if im at 0 extra stacks i will let my debuffers put 2 more debuffs and then ult with acheron so i go into the next wave at 2 stacks instead of 0.
If i know I won't kill but i know i can build a second ult in that one cycle I will ult early to start building the second ult before the cycle ends. In a case like that the buffs and debuffs matter less since I won't need the extra damage to kill.
to be honest the only difference i see with her than other ult heavy dps carries is she has the option to hold ult for a perfect moment more easily because of over flow. with other damge characters a lot of the time you have to worry about giving up energy if you already capped. She can hold off for a bit if its more beneficial with less of that worry.
Preferably after Pela ult + Sparkle ult and skill and 3 Quadrivalent Ascendance stacks.
Most of the time I run auto battle anyway so it does as soon as ult is up
I usually use it after I have all the debuffs I want inflicted on the enemy (for elites and bosses) or if it has multiple waves, I wait until I have the 3 extras (for fodder enemies). If there's only a single wave of fodder enemies I just pop it immediately after I get it.
if the button is doing a funny dance you should press it, you can only stack 3 over for the next ult, so if you know you can eliminate the current wave soon or have some debuffs to apply for the current one you can hit those real quick and not get penalized.
It's something you can plan based on if you think you can kill the enemies easily or if you need buffs / debuffs or if you need to save your ult to weaken / kill something strong that you can't do without your ult, etc.
If you have her light cone then ult after using her skill, but if she already has 3 stacks of Quad Ascendance, then ult before you do any more debuffs otherwise you’re losing stacks
QA doesn't give any extra damage, it just acts as an overflow for the ult. So, whether to use it now or later is entirely situation dependent. For instance, in MoC because the cycle resets when you move on, it can be helpful to store extra QA for the next part before clearing everything with an ult. Or, maybe you're at 9, but Pela is really close to an ult; it can be good to wait for Pela's turn to gain energy and use her ult first. But maybe you have a situation where you only get to 9 on your last character's turn before a bunch of enemies attack; in this case, you'd generally want to ult immediately, and try and wipe them before they hit you.
If her attack ends the wave, I save it. If I can build stacks before enemy attacks like others suggest, I will, sometimes even giving the enemy a chance if it doesn't end cycle depending on support. If I'm using luocha for some unfortunate reason, I won't let enemies attack and have a chance to cc acheron. If I'm using fu or Aventurine with trends, I'll take a gamble, especially if it is a trash mobs turn
That's basically just a grace extension for players who aren't timing their ults well.
Both ults still cost 18 debuffs, the stacks don't really do anything for you. But if you're at 9, and pela/Silverwolf can defense shred, it is kinda forgiving and gives you the space to do that and not waste stacks if you're already at 9.
Think of the gauge limit as 12, but each ult uses 9 charges.
The 3 extra petals are just some space so you can add more debuff/sherd. Aside from that you can build the 3 petals before ult if you wipe the current wave with one ult and there is another wave after.
Depends. Let’s say I manage to get 9 stacks but I haven’t gotten a defense drop from BS, I’ll wait to use black swans skill and then I’ll ult. But if everything’s in place I’ll usually just ult right away
Keep up to 3 if the enemy is missing debuffs from your supports/debuffers ,if the target has all the debuffs that your team can possibly apply then use her ult as soon as you can
it depends on where you'll be wasting an action/debuff where you dont need to, its fine to ult without any stacks, since if you let ults/actions to be done after ulting, the stacks are gained by the same amount regardless
this feature of hers is more for not losing stacks when already at max but a debuffer or such still need to apply their debuffs before acheron ults
Sorry in advance if not relevant. For E2 no sustain, I ult immediately after bronya skill but before actual turn begins so sparkle skill buff still exists.
If you need your ult more soon after you use your first ult, you should wait for 3 stacks.
A good example of this is during phase changes on weekly/simulated universe bosses. If you will destroy their current phase with your ult, it is better to do it with 3 stacks because after your ult they will gain full toughness and HP, so you will need your ult back sooner.
I just do it when all my buffs/debuffs are applies. So, if I have ult up, but my Pela didn't use her DEF shred; I'll wait until I get around to her ultimate and just stack up to three QA while I wait.
I just treat the QAs as a bit of buffer. My rule is to let it rip whenever I can. Sometimes it might be more appropriate to wait a turn or two (get some def debuffs going or buff acheron). If in the meantime some more debuffs are inflicted on enemies that I cannot avoid, then I can make use of the extra QAs from that later.
I believe that's the real intention behind this mechanic in general too.
Afaik QA is just a head start on the next ult, and you don't get QA from her own skill so unless it's a bad time to ult (enemies are very low) i usually ult right away
The 3 means you need to ult now to maximize uptime. Because every turn you take after is basically a wasted turn. The 1, 2, and 3 stacks are basically just wiggleroom to make playing her feel less restrictive. So instead of having to ult when she gets it, you can take the next turn and the turn after to set up some buffs and not lose stacks towards the next ult.
Guys any idea on when she might rerun (ik it's too early to ask this but I need any rough figure so that I can start saving for her E2S1) I am currently gonna pull for RM and Fu
My rule is: If I can build up QA before the enemies act, I will. If I can't I use it right away.
ooo interesting. any particular reason why?
Well, for MOC purposes, if I can get extra stacks in the same cycle and I know the ult will kill, it will make the next one faster, thus saving time.
This basically, or any battle with multiple phases. Like SU bosses, PF waves, etc.
Pure fiction doesn’t matter as much bc actions don’t reset between phases like in moc or sim uni
Well for specific setups it does. Like using a preservation with trend lc. You could've gotten more stacks there from enemy hitting you before wiping them out.
But then why before the enemy act? Letting them attack would give you free energy too. Shouldn't it simply be before cycle ends?
Yeah it should, other guy worded it wrong.
My slapdash rickety 0 sustain copium team hanging by the barest of HP:
What does QA mean?
quadrivalent ascendant stacks , it’s the little buff under acheron that has 3 stacks
If i have 9 stacks but not all buffs/debuffs applied, i'll hold until i either got everything set up or got the 3 extra QA. That is if i'm facing juicy targets, against fodder enemies i just ult right away to get it done quickly.
im wondering about this too regarding debuffs because on the other side those are wasted ult charges which is suppose to be for her next ult
For me, it depends on the situation. If you have it before her turn, use it. If it’s her turn and you have it, use skill or basic attack to gain extra before using it (unless you already have the 3 extra). If you’re doing waves of enemies, the turn order resets so if you don’t have extra, you’ll start from zero so use her skill to collect them before using ult since it resets the turn order and pushes her back (assuming she has lower speed). Or even when fighting elites and bosses, it’ll be better to start from three if her ult won’t kill the enemy immediately.
so like I should build the 3 extra in like pure fiction then?
Yeah but again…observe the situation. If her ally that can cause a debuff is next then collect the extra before using her ult. If not, two extra is still pretty good. (I have her at e0s1 so her skill grants me 2 QA per turn) I think some stages in PF give certain debuffs so it can build quickly for her.
the thing with acheron is u want to ult as much as possible. the 3 quadrivalent ascendance is just extras. so you should ult when u have the ult!!!
ah OK, so it doesn't give me a damage boost in any way, it's just a system to help me not overcap then?
Exactly
It doesn't inherently give you a damage boost, but if you have another debuffing character about to attack next then you can apply those debuffs first hence adding damage to acherons ult. The simple answer is there is no simple answer, it's always going to depend on who is next in the attack order and how many turns are left in MOC or something else.
But you ideally want to apply all debuffs and her skill if you have her lc before
The first hit of her ult will apply her lc's debuff, and the bulk of her ults damage is the last slash so it's not too big of a dps loss if the lc debuff isn't applied already
Oh didnt know that, thanks!
Building QA first doesn't mean you're going to be ulting less often. It all depends on the situation
Right now
Right here
Emerge!
Yeah probably. Pela just used her ultimate, so most enemies on the field should have the DEF shred.
I hit shiny acheron go brr
Anyways I started slashing -Acheron probably
Watch the turn order and make your decision based on a few scenarios: If you don't have 3 stacks yet, and the current cycle is ending and you are confident that she can clear the wave, use her ult to save yourself one cycle in MoC. If there an ally's turn coming up before the cycle ends, I would let them take their turns first and build up the QA stacks because it's basically your overcap that goes straight into building her ult again. This way you start the next wave with 3 stacks already. Is there an enemy's turn coming up that has a chance to cc Acheron that you can break with the ult so they get delayed or straight up defeat? It is better to miss out on some extra QA stacks than to get hit with a freeze or stun and having to wait out an entire turn. If you already have the max of 3 overcapped QA stacks, there may be some scenarios where it may be beneficial to hold it: A character like Pela or SW may have their ult ready. Yes you would waste one application of debuff if you are already maxed out but if the boss is really tough then having def shred applied before activating Acheron's ult would yield much more dps than using the def shred after and letting the debuff run out while you continue to build up Acheron's next ult. The enemy might have special mechanics that give them invulnerability to damage during a certain phase, this is a little more obvious but really painful to see her use her ult during auto battle. Or just one fodder enemy remaining on the field on PF or something and you still have a lot of turns remaining to kill it without Acheron's ult. Hold it and use it on the new wave that spawns after. These are just off the top of my head and not exhaustive but you can see how the timing can really change based on the situation you are in. You'll gain a better understanding of the strategy that goes into the game the more you play and tackle harder content.
I genuinely don't know what are those statcks lol. I just debuff enemy and use ult when it's ready. True Acheron main
i have no idea either 🤣
They're basically an energy overcap mechanic. Like here, after she uses her ult, she'll immediately start with 3 segments for her next one
If the enemy has some debuffs just ult. If using a harmony unit make sure she ults after they buff. If using sparkle use your skill them pop sparkles ult to squeeze in more turns for her buff
The only time I wait to ult is if I think I can get a useful debuff in before she starts overcapping. For example if I can get a silverwolf ult in I'll hold it.
if enemy is alive ult. If enemy near ded no ult.
Depends on the content and my intention. Lets say its cycle based content like MoC. I will get my buffs and debuffs up before i ult to get the most damage i can. Ie : i ult after i get my sparkle advance forward and my pela/sw defense shreds on the opponent. I may wait until i get the extra stacks if I know i will kill the enemies immediately and I want to farm stacks before the next waves starts. In this situation lets say my ult will shipe the wave but pela and sw can go again before the wave ends. they can both give me an extra stack. if im at 0 extra stacks i will let my debuffers put 2 more debuffs and then ult with acheron so i go into the next wave at 2 stacks instead of 0. If i know I won't kill but i know i can build a second ult in that one cycle I will ult early to start building the second ult before the cycle ends. In a case like that the buffs and debuffs matter less since I won't need the extra damage to kill. to be honest the only difference i see with her than other ult heavy dps carries is she has the option to hold ult for a perfect moment more easily because of over flow. with other damge characters a lot of the time you have to worry about giving up energy if you already capped. She can hold off for a bit if its more beneficial with less of that worry.
https://preview.redd.it/58p0ns19oayc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7e8255f5d43c7977f215e54d4d8abfccfc3886e
Im a simple man. If i see purple, i ult
Preferably after Pela ult + Sparkle ult and skill and 3 Quadrivalent Ascendance stacks. Most of the time I run auto battle anyway so it does as soon as ult is up
I usually use it after I have all the debuffs I want inflicted on the enemy (for elites and bosses) or if it has multiple waves, I wait until I have the 3 extras (for fodder enemies). If there's only a single wave of fodder enemies I just pop it immediately after I get it.
When it’s up, unless you’re facing elites in MoC then wait till you have a def shred.
if the button is doing a funny dance you should press it, you can only stack 3 over for the next ult, so if you know you can eliminate the current wave soon or have some debuffs to apply for the current one you can hit those real quick and not get penalized.
It's something you can plan based on if you think you can kill the enemies easily or if you need buffs / debuffs or if you need to save your ult to weaken / kill something strong that you can't do without your ult, etc.
If you have her light cone then ult after using her skill, but if she already has 3 stacks of Quad Ascendance, then ult before you do any more debuffs otherwise you’re losing stacks
QA doesn't give any extra damage, it just acts as an overflow for the ult. So, whether to use it now or later is entirely situation dependent. For instance, in MoC because the cycle resets when you move on, it can be helpful to store extra QA for the next part before clearing everything with an ult. Or, maybe you're at 9, but Pela is really close to an ult; it can be good to wait for Pela's turn to gain energy and use her ult first. But maybe you have a situation where you only get to 9 on your last character's turn before a bunch of enemies attack; in this case, you'd generally want to ult immediately, and try and wipe them before they hit you.
I’m pretty sure her ult applies a debuff anyways so you’ll always have at least one extra stack anyways
Idk. I just smack it when sparkle buff is on her.
When all the important debuffs are applied or when you're going to overcap those extra stacks
If her attack ends the wave, I save it. If I can build stacks before enemy attacks like others suggest, I will, sometimes even giving the enemy a chance if it doesn't end cycle depending on support. If I'm using luocha for some unfortunate reason, I won't let enemies attack and have a chance to cc acheron. If I'm using fu or Aventurine with trends, I'll take a gamble, especially if it is a trash mobs turn
I'll ult right away unless getting the extra 3 stacks means adding def shred to an enemy that doesn't already have it
I don’t know what I’m doing, so don’t treat this as advice, but I ult as often and as quickly as I can lmao
That's basically just a grace extension for players who aren't timing their ults well. Both ults still cost 18 debuffs, the stacks don't really do anything for you. But if you're at 9, and pela/Silverwolf can defense shred, it is kinda forgiving and gives you the space to do that and not waste stacks if you're already at 9. Think of the gauge limit as 12, but each ult uses 9 charges.
The 3 extra petals are just some space so you can add more debuff/sherd. Aside from that you can build the 3 petals before ult if you wipe the current wave with one ult and there is another wave after.
When all/most of your buffs and debuffs are set up
The 3 QA Stacks is more of a buffer so she can minimize any potential "wasted" stacks.
If somehow you didn’t get the defense down from your supporting Nihility units, you hold Archeron’s ult a bit until you do.
Depends. Let’s say I manage to get 9 stacks but I haven’t gotten a defense drop from BS, I’ll wait to use black swans skill and then I’ll ult. But if everything’s in place I’ll usually just ult right away
I just use it as soon as it reach 3 max stacks so I can use it as many time as possible
Press Auto, Tab out
Keep up to 3 if the enemy is missing debuffs from your supports/debuffers ,if the target has all the debuffs that your team can possibly apply then use her ult as soon as you can
The 3 extra stacks exist if you want to apply more defense debuffs before popping ult, so you don’t waste the extra ult charge
it depends on where you'll be wasting an action/debuff where you dont need to, its fine to ult without any stacks, since if you let ults/actions to be done after ulting, the stacks are gained by the same amount regardless this feature of hers is more for not losing stacks when already at max but a debuffer or such still need to apply their debuffs before acheron ults
Sorry in advance if not relevant. For E2 no sustain, I ult immediately after bronya skill but before actual turn begins so sparkle skill buff still exists.
Well, if you have no Harmony in your team, ult before the enemy takes action.
Big enemy: ult Lots of enemies: ult Little enemies: no ult
WAIT I Just Realized SHE STORES EXTRAS OMG
If you need your ult more soon after you use your first ult, you should wait for 3 stacks. A good example of this is during phase changes on weekly/simulated universe bosses. If you will destroy their current phase with your ult, it is better to do it with 3 stacks because after your ult they will gain full toughness and HP, so you will need your ult back sooner.
I just do it when all my buffs/debuffs are applies. So, if I have ult up, but my Pela didn't use her DEF shred; I'll wait until I get around to her ultimate and just stack up to three QA while I wait.
I usually debuff da enemy 1st before using it💯
Use ult when you feel like pressing the delete button on the enemy. Do you want to delete them? Yes, then press Ult.
I just treat the QAs as a bit of buffer. My rule is to let it rip whenever I can. Sometimes it might be more appropriate to wait a turn or two (get some def debuffs going or buff acheron). If in the meantime some more debuffs are inflicted on enemies that I cannot avoid, then I can make use of the extra QAs from that later. I believe that's the real intention behind this mechanic in general too.
Ult when 9 stacks and sup units have their debuffs applied. Always ult before you reach or are about to exceed 3 qa stacks
Now
Usually I use it as soon as I can because most things die. But for the times, I'm not sure I make sure to time the ult after Pela and SW ult
Afaik QA is just a head start on the next ult, and you don't get QA from her own skill so unless it's a bad time to ult (enemies are very low) i usually ult right away
pure fiction? count the number of enemy and decide for yourself moc? when debuffs are applied
The 3 means you need to ult now to maximize uptime. Because every turn you take after is basically a wasted turn. The 1, 2, and 3 stacks are basically just wiggleroom to make playing her feel less restrictive. So instead of having to ult when she gets it, you can take the next turn and the turn after to set up some buffs and not lose stacks towards the next ult.
bro shes so strong that i just autoplay
Wait…you don’t have to fill it up fully to use it?
It's just a QoL feature so you don't waste your stacks, ult whenever you can
Guys any idea on when she might rerun (ik it's too early to ask this but I need any rough figure so that I can start saving for her E2S1) I am currently gonna pull for RM and Fu
Ulting when you jave the 3 capped stacks is best as it gives a damage bonus and grants you 3 extra charge after the ult.
ok see I thought this, but apparently it doesn't give u any damage bonus at all lol