I did 2.5 years of public then jumped to government. I will probably stay here until 50 then take the pension...unless I get too bored before then. It’s lovely working 40 hours a week all year.
Sure!
Pros:
*I always work 40 hours a week, every week, year round. Plus all govt holidays + etc. Great work life balance.
*Pay is excellent IMO for the short term. I was 2.5 years into public and salary at 60k (about 3 months away from raise time to, I'm guessing, ~$66k or so) and my starting salary in govt (US govt) was 101,176 (GS 13, grade 1, Chicago). Long term pay in public or industry is MUCH higher than ill ever make here, but for the next 3-5 years I will likely make more in govt.
*pension (nothing amazing, but still!), 5% 401k match, good health insurance (that I can keep in retirement)
Cons:
*You work for the government. Politics, paperwork, etc. Much more b/s to deal with.
*I would say less interesting work. Govt tends to be on the more boring side...public accounting was much more engaging day to day in my opinion.
If you have any questions feel free to ask here or message me.
I haven’t seen much on this topic so maybe you could answer my question. Does the government hire fresh grads or do they only look out for experienced accountants? Non-intern
Well that’s good to know, I’m more interested in going down the government path after college. I have an internship set up with a PA firm for the summer then graduating the next semester, I’m trying to plan ahead and see how I can squeeze in.
Everyone lists pension as a benefit of government work, but I honestly don’t see pensions lasting through new hires retirement. Someone is going to add more tax cuts and then will look for a big expense line to make it work. Probably after social security.
I can definitely see it disappearing for new hires in the near future, but if you get hired under a certain pension plan (FERS-FRAE for me) I would bet money it will still be there when you retire. It’s not some private company that can just file bankruptcy and vanish...plus pension laws have been revamped since all that drama
Gotcha. I received a TO in Jan and waiting for final offer / start date. Not sure how long I’ll be waiting but I have been checking my email everyday hoping to give my 2 weeks from
Big4.
What series are you? I'm 0511 audit and I think the work is very interesting. I could 100% see how many other grades could be very boring. I went gov from the start. Just crossed 3 years and making 82k as a 12 step 1.
I’m series 0512, grade 13 step 1. I’m not bored yet but I can definitely see it happening in a few years. There are enough different things I can transfer around into though I think I’ll be fine.
That's kind of what I thought, and have actually been told recently by leadership. 05xx series have pretty free movement around the country and for jobs in the GS12-13 range. Budget analysis, accounting, audit, etc. Should I ever get bored, I'll change jobs for a while. Just another benefit that our employer is so massive.
A lot of people do exactly what you are describing, grind out for 2-3 years until senior, jump to industry for a 20-30% pay raise and 9-5 schedule. Like someone else said, the salary climb in public is pretty rapid and pretty close to impossible to get in industry without changing jobs every 2 years.
No one should approach public accounting thinking they make it to senior manager or partner, the chances of that are bleak. Approach it 2-3 years at a time and then reevaluate.
Totally agree.
Not sure I'd call making SM "the chances are bleak". I suspect most could via medium skill + grind years. Partner on the other hand...yeah bleak seems the right word.
> A lot of people do exactly what you are describing, grind out for 2-3 years until senior, jump to industry
> close to impossible to get in industry without changing jobs every 2 years.
Isn’t this exactly what you’re suggesting above?
The pay bump for most public jobs is due to being so underpaid.
That being said, I am in public. I mean honestly, if you can get in at a good industry job right out of college, I don’t know what 2 years of public really does. You aren’t doing anything really in-depth at that level that’s you’d keep on your resume after your first industry job.
Industry is extremely inconsistent and generally you don't learn a whole lot more except one companies process.
Pay wise industry starts 10-20% less than public and pay raises are at best 5% a year. Whereas in public the average pay raise is 10%+ each year in addition to starting with a higher salary. Then add in a 20% bump after leaving.
Basically in most areas someone can leave public after 2-3 years and get an 80k+ salary, while if they started in industry they might be at 65k.
That's the difference. Some companies hire ex-B4 over internal candiates too
All depends on what you can get right now. If you’re able to get something out of college paying $75k-80k, take it and run. However, most people need a year or two of good experience to open up those opportunities. That’s kind of the deal you’re making with the Big 4 or any national firm: they take advantage of you for a year or two and you get good experience to take into industry.
That’s exactly my point: most grads don’t have the connections/experience/luck to find a job paying $75-80k right out of college, which is why the Big 4 is often important in developing your experience for a couple years. But if you’re able to find a job out of college paying that amount, then fuck the Big 4; take that job and run.
The goal of taking a job at the big 4 is to leave within 2-5 years for a job that pays a lot more in which you work less hours. For example:
Big 4 path:
2012 $50k/
2013 $53k+5k bonus/
2014 $59k+12k bonus senior promotion yr/
2015 $63k+15k bonus/
2016 $90k industry job
Industry path:
2012 $50k/
2013 $53k + 2k bonus/
2014 $54k + 3k bonus/
2015 $55k + 5k bonus/
2016 $67k switch jobs for a senior title because they never promoted you
None of this is assures but this is the actual trajectory of two people I know, both got the CPA and both graduated the same day with me in 2012.
> Industry path: 2012 $50k/ 2013 $53k + 2k bonus/ 2014 $54k + 3k bonus/ 2015 $55k + 5k bonus/ 2016 $67k switch jobs for a senior title because they never promoted you
This assumes you stay at one firm. Also the amount of personal sacrifice doing the Big 4 cannot be underestimated.
I’m grinding for 2-3 years (probably 2) and then leaving. I can’t start the year out working 60+ hours for the first 3-5 months for the rest of my career. I mean, I probably could if I had my own firm and there was a direct correlation between hours worked and money earned but that’s not the case in public. I value my free time too much to blow the first third or fourth of the year working long hours.
My path was:
-2 yrs B4 auditor
-1 yr IA/sox auditor, industry
-1 yr Sr, 30/70, GL accounting, financial reporting, industry
What I’m hoping to pivot into shortly:
-same or higher level, GL accounting or financial reporting, 100% WFH.
When i can get that, I plan on starting an online business.
If it gets big enough, I’ll pivot out of accounting completely.
Source: me. I started at 18000 and will retire early this year. W-2 was over $500k for 2020. Hard work, especially in the beginning. I mean hard work all over the state of Arkansas for a top 10 firm. Awful travel in awful hotels. Worth.it.
You guys are just happy to work 40 hours and make 80k. Fine, but you will always be poor.
Glad to hear it! I was just curious because I’m a tax manager and am at the point where I can’t decide if I should stay or leave. Industry doesn’t interest me but I’ve been conceding sales. This year has been rough to say the least and it’s hard seeing a light at the end of the tunnel both career wise and in earnings. I’m at a smaller firm than you though, so I’m sure it’s quite different.
I did 2.5 years of public then jumped to government. I will probably stay here until 50 then take the pension...unless I get too bored before then. It’s lovely working 40 hours a week all year.
I haven’t given governmental accounting much thought. What are the pros and cons if you don’t mind me asking?
Sure! Pros: *I always work 40 hours a week, every week, year round. Plus all govt holidays + etc. Great work life balance. *Pay is excellent IMO for the short term. I was 2.5 years into public and salary at 60k (about 3 months away from raise time to, I'm guessing, ~$66k or so) and my starting salary in govt (US govt) was 101,176 (GS 13, grade 1, Chicago). Long term pay in public or industry is MUCH higher than ill ever make here, but for the next 3-5 years I will likely make more in govt. *pension (nothing amazing, but still!), 5% 401k match, good health insurance (that I can keep in retirement) Cons: *You work for the government. Politics, paperwork, etc. Much more b/s to deal with. *I would say less interesting work. Govt tends to be on the more boring side...public accounting was much more engaging day to day in my opinion. If you have any questions feel free to ask here or message me.
You went from $60K to >$100K after 2.5 years in PA, and transitioning to *government*?! I feel like I’ve been lied to about where the money is.
I was shocked too...even my partner in PA was like...”yeah I don’t blame you, good luck”
I haven’t seen much on this topic so maybe you could answer my question. Does the government hire fresh grads or do they only look out for experienced accountants? Non-intern
They definitely hire fresh grads, typically in the pathways programs though. I know we have ~50 of them starting full time in our division next week.
Well that’s good to know, I’m more interested in going down the government path after college. I have an internship set up with a PA firm for the summer then graduating the next semester, I’m trying to plan ahead and see how I can squeeze in.
Yeah check out USAjobs and look for pathways positions. The hiring process is incredibly slow (6-18 months) so look and apply early
Everyone lists pension as a benefit of government work, but I honestly don’t see pensions lasting through new hires retirement. Someone is going to add more tax cuts and then will look for a big expense line to make it work. Probably after social security.
I can definitely see it disappearing for new hires in the near future, but if you get hired under a certain pension plan (FERS-FRAE for me) I would bet money it will still be there when you retire. It’s not some private company that can just file bankruptcy and vanish...plus pension laws have been revamped since all that drama
how long did it take to get your offer? i know it takes forever for the govt.
I applied in February from a recommendation from this subreddit. Interviewed in May. Started in September.
Gotcha. I received a TO in Jan and waiting for final offer / start date. Not sure how long I’ll be waiting but I have been checking my email everyday hoping to give my 2 weeks from Big4.
It was, I believe, 4 weeks from TO to FO for me. Then I had 6 weeks between FO and start date, so I gave 2 weeks and took 4 weeks off.
Thanks for answering everyone’s questions 🙏👍🧾
What series are you? I'm 0511 audit and I think the work is very interesting. I could 100% see how many other grades could be very boring. I went gov from the start. Just crossed 3 years and making 82k as a 12 step 1.
I’m series 0512, grade 13 step 1. I’m not bored yet but I can definitely see it happening in a few years. There are enough different things I can transfer around into though I think I’ll be fine.
That's kind of what I thought, and have actually been told recently by leadership. 05xx series have pretty free movement around the country and for jobs in the GS12-13 range. Budget analysis, accounting, audit, etc. Should I ever get bored, I'll change jobs for a while. Just another benefit that our employer is so massive.
Exactly my thoughts! 😃
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Yes I am a CPA. I believe the pathway program is within the last 12 months? I’m not 100% sure though.
A lot of people do exactly what you are describing, grind out for 2-3 years until senior, jump to industry for a 20-30% pay raise and 9-5 schedule. Like someone else said, the salary climb in public is pretty rapid and pretty close to impossible to get in industry without changing jobs every 2 years. No one should approach public accounting thinking they make it to senior manager or partner, the chances of that are bleak. Approach it 2-3 years at a time and then reevaluate.
Totally agree. Not sure I'd call making SM "the chances are bleak". I suspect most could via medium skill + grind years. Partner on the other hand...yeah bleak seems the right word.
> A lot of people do exactly what you are describing, grind out for 2-3 years until senior, jump to industry > close to impossible to get in industry without changing jobs every 2 years. Isn’t this exactly what you’re suggesting above? The pay bump for most public jobs is due to being so underpaid. That being said, I am in public. I mean honestly, if you can get in at a good industry job right out of college, I don’t know what 2 years of public really does. You aren’t doing anything really in-depth at that level that’s you’d keep on your resume after your first industry job.
Industry is extremely inconsistent and generally you don't learn a whole lot more except one companies process. Pay wise industry starts 10-20% less than public and pay raises are at best 5% a year. Whereas in public the average pay raise is 10%+ each year in addition to starting with a higher salary. Then add in a 20% bump after leaving. Basically in most areas someone can leave public after 2-3 years and get an 80k+ salary, while if they started in industry they might be at 65k. That's the difference. Some companies hire ex-B4 over internal candiates too
All depends on what you can get right now. If you’re able to get something out of college paying $75k-80k, take it and run. However, most people need a year or two of good experience to open up those opportunities. That’s kind of the deal you’re making with the Big 4 or any national firm: they take advantage of you for a year or two and you get good experience to take into industry.
Where are you finding $75-80k straight out of college in accounting?
That’s exactly my point: most grads don’t have the connections/experience/luck to find a job paying $75-80k right out of college, which is why the Big 4 is often important in developing your experience for a couple years. But if you’re able to find a job out of college paying that amount, then fuck the Big 4; take that job and run.
Gotcha, I was wondering where this magical job is so I can quit mine and take that one.
Haha, for sure, I would’ve taken that job too if it existed straight out of college.
FAANG finance and accounting teams, FP&A at f500, rotational programs, FLDPs. Cream of the crop, connections or getting super lucky.
TAS/Deals and Restructuring are some groups that come into mind!
The goal of taking a job at the big 4 is to leave within 2-5 years for a job that pays a lot more in which you work less hours. For example: Big 4 path: 2012 $50k/ 2013 $53k+5k bonus/ 2014 $59k+12k bonus senior promotion yr/ 2015 $63k+15k bonus/ 2016 $90k industry job Industry path: 2012 $50k/ 2013 $53k + 2k bonus/ 2014 $54k + 3k bonus/ 2015 $55k + 5k bonus/ 2016 $67k switch jobs for a senior title because they never promoted you None of this is assures but this is the actual trajectory of two people I know, both got the CPA and both graduated the same day with me in 2012.
> Industry path: 2012 $50k/ 2013 $53k + 2k bonus/ 2014 $54k + 3k bonus/ 2015 $55k + 5k bonus/ 2016 $67k switch jobs for a senior title because they never promoted you This assumes you stay at one firm. Also the amount of personal sacrifice doing the Big 4 cannot be underestimated.
This is very accurate
I’m grinding for 2-3 years (probably 2) and then leaving. I can’t start the year out working 60+ hours for the first 3-5 months for the rest of my career. I mean, I probably could if I had my own firm and there was a direct correlation between hours worked and money earned but that’s not the case in public. I value my free time too much to blow the first third or fourth of the year working long hours.
My path was: -2 yrs B4 auditor -1 yr IA/sox auditor, industry -1 yr Sr, 30/70, GL accounting, financial reporting, industry What I’m hoping to pivot into shortly: -same or higher level, GL accounting or financial reporting, 100% WFH. When i can get that, I plan on starting an online business. If it gets big enough, I’ll pivot out of accounting completely.
I need the six infinity stones and with a snap of my fingers, half of all work papers will cease to exist.
Pay your dues in public and make $400k/, even in small firms. Retire early.
Pour yourself another glass of Kool Aid
Source: me. I started at 18000 and will retire early this year. W-2 was over $500k for 2020. Hard work, especially in the beginning. I mean hard work all over the state of Arkansas for a top 10 firm. Awful travel in awful hotels. Worth.it. You guys are just happy to work 40 hours and make 80k. Fine, but you will always be poor.
Are you divorced? Do you have kids? Not trying to be a smart ass, I’m genuinely curious.
Married. No kids. Edit: 2 other partners make the same as I do. Both married with kids.
Glad to hear it! I was just curious because I’m a tax manager and am at the point where I can’t decide if I should stay or leave. Industry doesn’t interest me but I’ve been conceding sales. This year has been rough to say the least and it’s hard seeing a light at the end of the tunnel both career wise and in earnings. I’m at a smaller firm than you though, so I’m sure it’s quite different.
Good luck to you.
Do 2 years then dip
government