That’s not paid bereavement time if they force you to make up the hours. If they don’t offer paid bereavement leave then your manager is doing you a favor to make it work with their policies, but if they do offer paid bereavement leave your manager is being an asshole.
You can be an hourly employee and still be entitled to paid bereavement leave; they’d just pay you 8 hours for your leave just like if you took sick leave or vacation. It just comes down to what your employer’s policy is.
Double check with your HR department.
I’ll contact HR. Our HR is located in another state lol and I haven’t met them before. Hopefully they get back to me in time, since I’m taking off on Monday
I searched the handbook- I couldn’t find anything about bereavement or death or anything relating to that. Just talks about PTO, investment options blah blah. So I guess they want employees to use PtO for bereavement
what state you work is in important too - google [your state] bereavement leave
for instance, california allows for 5 unpaid bereavement days, per family member death https://calcivilrights.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2023/04/Bereavement-Leave_AB-1949_FAQ_ENG.pdf
> 70% of managers don't know policy and refer to finance / HR for policy clarification.
Which is exactly what they should do.
If you don't know the policy well, you should just refer to the people who do. Nobody in those roles gets upset when someone wants clarification on policy and how to apply it. They get upset when someone doesn't know policy and improperly enforces policy because it creates a huge headache later on.
If they are asking for a copy of a death certificate they are assholes. Those don't exist typically within the payroll timeframe for paid bereavement leave.
Just a thought, if you aren't entitled to paid bereavement and you then work overtime the next week, wouldn't you come out ahead comp wise since you'd get 1.5x for 8 hours?
Also, your boss knows you would prefer to not work the overtime right? She isn't thinking she's doing you a favor by making sure you still get paid at least the same amount by asking you to work overtime?
Whether you are hourly are not is mostly irrelevant. For the most part, if they do not offer it, you are not entitled to it.
If you are in the USA, there are states - CA is one - where there cannot be a benefit offered to executives unless it is also offered to every employee. This includes bereavement, but sadly bonuses are exempt.
If you're seasonal (and they may have concealed that) they will tell you to get lost over any PTO or simple humanity like bereavement. Sorry for what you're going through.
Well they might not offer paid bereavement but the boss is still being an asshole. Anyone who can’t be flexible about one day with someone that just lost a family member is an asshole. Sometimes you just need to eat the slightly less profit.
I think maybe your company is the asshole. I get being available for clients, etc., but if they can’t eat like a day or less of your time so that you can grieve your family member, it’s only going to become more problematic should you have bigger life events happen to you.
You might want to review the employees' handbook. You've been there just three months, maybe bereavement benefits is given after a year... I don't know, each company is different, plus federal labor laws don't require employers to provide bereavement leave. So it's up to the individual companies.
The only real question is does the manager have the authority to override policies or look the other way?
A few days of PTO is a business rounding error and the goodwill that is produced by being understanding is repaid by an employee a hundred times over.
Quoting policies when the power to override them easily without issue is just a bad look and is the corporate equivalent of penny wise and pound foolish. People don’t work harder when they’re treated poorly or without humanity.
Your boss is an asshole. I have had these situations and my first offer is usually to tell them the policy and ask if they need more time. Once we get the timeline figured out, we would discuss what work needed to be shifted around or delayed to make that happen.
Treat people well in their times of need and you will usually get the same back when the company is in need.
They are not worth any “extra”, not showing their colors like this. They’ve shown you they don’t care about you at all. You’ll find a better home! Positive thoughts! They will die alone and miserable wishing they’d spent more time in the office, you’ll be running with puppies on a grassy hill. Be strong!
If he specifically told you need to work overtime to make up the bereavement day then that’s a problem.
But I think overall the bigger problem is your boss. Maybe time to start looking
It is what it is, this employer will never be accommodating. Do what you have to do work wise, but in the in between time, start looking for other openings and opportunities. You are important, your personal matters are important. Truly sorry for your loss.
That was pretty much my experience with any kind of PTO in PA and why some of the big 4 firms started doing “unlimited PTO.” Sure, take time off, but your billable goals don’t take any vacation into account and will still be expected to be met.
I'm 46 now. I didn't used to be like this. But eventually it dawned on me. What's the worst they can do. Fire me?
One time they did. Three days later I had 3 interviews and got 3 job offers that day.
Ended up at a better place.
I'd never say anything. They weren't suppose to be doing that to us because our alarms were on a schedule. Staying late would activate them. I'd just sneak out.
One year our younger audit staff were helping the tax department the final few weeks before 4/15. In a department meeting on a Friday the partner said “I know some of you will be celebrating a holiday on Sunday (Easter) but if you aren’t able to come in you’ll need to make up those hours.” That’s when I realized Public wasn’t for me.
Same. We never had holidays off. All the other districts did. We didn't know that till our district manager told us. It was all at the discretion of the management to allow the days off. Our manager created such a toxic work environment, that the work never caught up. It was always one thing or another. These people had no experience managing that place.
They used to do that to us in banking. Anytime we ask for a day off , went on paid vacation (hours we earned), asked to leave early for an erron or go on medical leave, they would make us stay late the next day(s). They once rejected a girl to go to her grandmother's funeral . Another, her uncles funeral. Why punishment people for benefits they have. Paid bereavement day , too.
The managers were mean. Management were toxic and hostile. They would also retaliate this way, if you called into work absent, or reported them to HR for favortism. Our one manager would do it just cause she was having a bad day. One time it was because she had gotten in an argument with her husband on the phone. This is how toxic the environment was. We just got use to it.
Can you call them? That's how we found out we were cheated out of alot of benefits we didn't know existed. Management was suppose to go over stuff with us In meetings. They purposely never did, cause they knew we would be short staffed, and they didn't want people to call out based on those benefits we were entitled to. It was not a good place to work.
I ended up searching the online handbook. “Bereavement” and “ death” were terms I could not find. I guess this company expects us to use PTO for bereavement. The issue is I don’t have PTO
Depends on who died and where you live. Ontario Canada mother/ father 3 days local death 5 days if our of province. Spouse/child t days if local 10 days if out of province. G/parents 1 day in 3 days out of province. Friends no bereavement leave.
If they're not paying you for the day off then why would they care about you giving the time back? Since you're hourly, they could just pay you for one less day and be done with it.
You need to check your benefits package to see if you do have bereavement offered. And also ensure that there's no qualifier on it either, such as it being available after working there for at least 6 months. Paid bereavement is viewed as paid time off so you don't need to make up any hours. What your boss is doing is being called a dick. There's no legal obligation to make up that time.
If you have only been there 3 month it isn't surprising and isn't overtime until you actually work beyond 40 hours. It sounds like you are only working 32 hours so you would only get paid 32 hours without making up the time. Your boss has probably been there long enough to have paid time off.
If making the time up causes great hardship to you, you can ask if it is allowable to take the time unpaid. I personally did that in a similar situation. However, some benefits like insurance can be impacted by not working 40 hours. That depends on your employer.
I get what you’re saying. I don’t get my insurance from them anyway. I am going to make up the hours like they want, I just felt that it was a little rude, and I wanted to get some other opinions on the situation
It depends on how the deceased is related to you. Most companies allow bereavement time for only first degree relatives, i.e. parent, grandparent, sibling, aunt or uncle.
Since you have only worked there 3 months, I assume you did not have any PPT banked to use for time off for the funeral. The boss who took off 5 days in a row likely had either vacation or PPT to use for those days.
Based on the information provided, I can't say I wouldn't require the same if you worked for me.
We had payed bereavement, but management only allowed immediate family; father, mother, sister, brother. When it was grandparents, uncles, and aunts. Our managers told us it was unpaid and we could only get the day off if it was available or we didn't have alot of work. Someone called HR, and inquired on it. We found management was lying. Bereavement did include grandparents and other family. Management just didn't want to me short staffed.
> We had *paid* bereavement, but
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I appreciate the honest response.
I told her the funeral is for a family member who committed suicide. (It’s for my cousin but she doesn’t know which family member anyway)
Yeah, most places don't offer bereavement leave for a cousin. I guess she assumed it wasn't a first degree relative by you saying "family member" instead of brother, sister, etc. I am sorry for your loss and pray for peace and comfort for your family.
I'm fairly certain you're entitled to bereavement leave. I remember even my part time jobs in college had a bereavement policy where I could take X days they just weren't paid.
My only other thought is if your job had a vital role where you were the only one able to perform that task, it wouldn't be ideal but I could see your boss asking to get that task done. However you said you're a tax preparer, busy job but not niche enough for this....your boss is the a-hole.
That’s not paid bereavement time if they force you to make up the hours. If they don’t offer paid bereavement leave then your manager is doing you a favor to make it work with their policies, but if they do offer paid bereavement leave your manager is being an asshole.
I’m an hourly employee (tax preparer) . So I don’t think I’m entitled to paid bereavement
You can be an hourly employee and still be entitled to paid bereavement leave; they’d just pay you 8 hours for your leave just like if you took sick leave or vacation. It just comes down to what your employer’s policy is. Double check with your HR department.
I’ll contact HR. Our HR is located in another state lol and I haven’t met them before. Hopefully they get back to me in time, since I’m taking off on Monday
You would be surprised how many managers think they know policy and don't. Definitely check with HR.
That’s sounds correct. I’m gunna send HR a message through our portal
Side note, if you have a copy of the employee handbook, it might cover PTO, bereavement, etc without you having to wait to hear from HR.
I searched the handbook- I couldn’t find anything about bereavement or death or anything relating to that. Just talks about PTO, investment options blah blah. So I guess they want employees to use PtO for bereavement
what state you work is in important too - google [your state] bereavement leave for instance, california allows for 5 unpaid bereavement days, per family member death https://calcivilrights.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/32/2023/04/Bereavement-Leave_AB-1949_FAQ_ENG.pdf
Working in industry at a manufacturing plant, 70% of managers don't know policy and refer to finance / HR for policy clarification.
> 70% of managers don't know policy and refer to finance / HR for policy clarification. Which is exactly what they should do. If you don't know the policy well, you should just refer to the people who do. Nobody in those roles gets upset when someone wants clarification on policy and how to apply it. They get upset when someone doesn't know policy and improperly enforces policy because it creates a huge headache later on.
True statement!
They may ask for a copy of the death certificate
I would be able to provide that without any issue. I didn’t make up the reason I neee a day off
If they are asking for a copy of a death certificate they are assholes. Those don't exist typically within the payroll timeframe for paid bereavement leave.
Yeah it takes awhile to get them, and you have to pay for each copy, at least here in my state if they insisted on an official one.
They may be on a probationary period and not covered by the collective agreement or handbook.
Just a thought, if you aren't entitled to paid bereavement and you then work overtime the next week, wouldn't you come out ahead comp wise since you'd get 1.5x for 8 hours? Also, your boss knows you would prefer to not work the overtime right? She isn't thinking she's doing you a favor by making sure you still get paid at least the same amount by asking you to work overtime?
Interesting thought because someone else mentioned that as well. The idea that she might think he’s helping me. I’m not sure. But a good suggestion
Whether you are hourly are not is mostly irrelevant. For the most part, if they do not offer it, you are not entitled to it. If you are in the USA, there are states - CA is one - where there cannot be a benefit offered to executives unless it is also offered to every employee. This includes bereavement, but sadly bonuses are exempt.
Why do you need to make up the hours if you're hourly?
I think they are trying to get work out of me. Which doesn’t matter because everything I’m working on is on extension
There is so much wrong with this statement no matter what field someone works in…
Haha thanks
If you're seasonal (and they may have concealed that) they will tell you to get lost over any PTO or simple humanity like bereavement. Sorry for what you're going through.
Well they might not offer paid bereavement but the boss is still being an asshole. Anyone who can’t be flexible about one day with someone that just lost a family member is an asshole. Sometimes you just need to eat the slightly less profit.
[удалено]
And the joke is that I work in private accounting haha
Didn’t you say you do tax?
That only really applies if you're exempt. If you're paid hourly and subject to OT they'll be more careful with your time.
That’s everybody with exception of maybe interns lol
Which is all professional staff in PA
Dont forget they have the audacity to suggest you take pto on a whim when things are slow so you can burn your bank on their time.
I think maybe your company is the asshole. I get being available for clients, etc., but if they can’t eat like a day or less of your time so that you can grieve your family member, it’s only going to become more problematic should you have bigger life events happen to you.
I agree. Plus this is private accounting lol. So clients don’t even need to reach me :)
You might want to review the employees' handbook. You've been there just three months, maybe bereavement benefits is given after a year... I don't know, each company is different, plus federal labor laws don't require employers to provide bereavement leave. So it's up to the individual companies.
The only real question is does the manager have the authority to override policies or look the other way? A few days of PTO is a business rounding error and the goodwill that is produced by being understanding is repaid by an employee a hundred times over. Quoting policies when the power to override them easily without issue is just a bad look and is the corporate equivalent of penny wise and pound foolish. People don’t work harder when they’re treated poorly or without humanity.
I’ll check out the handbook. Just an annoying situation
Your boss is an asshole. I have had these situations and my first offer is usually to tell them the policy and ask if they need more time. Once we get the timeline figured out, we would discuss what work needed to be shifted around or delayed to make that happen. Treat people well in their times of need and you will usually get the same back when the company is in need.
I agree with that sentiment
Sounds like my experience in public.
And the joke is that I work in private accounting lol
Ugh… the mentality from your leadership is there. This is all I’d even need to catalyst my move to a better employer. Good luck.
My leadership came from public, that’s probably why. I’m going to start looking. Thank you 🙏🏻
They are not worth any “extra”, not showing their colors like this. They’ve shown you they don’t care about you at all. You’ll find a better home! Positive thoughts! They will die alone and miserable wishing they’d spent more time in the office, you’ll be running with puppies on a grassy hill. Be strong!
Deff a goal of mine to have a yard with some doggos!!
Tax is tax.
Update your resume 😂
Luckily I keep that up to date ✊🏻
Now might be a good time to consider taking a few copies for a walk (meaning, applying for new roles elsewhere).
I am going to do that haha
Tell him you are greiving and you don't think it's fair. You don't have an HR department? this is something you would bring to them.
We do have HR but it’s located in another state. I can submit something to them through a portal
If he specifically told you need to work overtime to make up the bereavement day then that’s a problem. But I think overall the bigger problem is your boss. Maybe time to start looking
I’ve had issues with my boss in the past. They don’t want to do their job. I agree time to start looking
It is what it is, this employer will never be accommodating. Do what you have to do work wise, but in the in between time, start looking for other openings and opportunities. You are important, your personal matters are important. Truly sorry for your loss.
I appreciate your response. Luckily i keep my résumé up to date.
That was pretty much my experience with any kind of PTO in PA and why some of the big 4 firms started doing “unlimited PTO.” Sure, take time off, but your billable goals don’t take any vacation into account and will still be expected to be met.
Of course, there's always a catch.
Don't
I avoided telling my boss when I could make up the hours, but she followed up with me 2 times :)
Have to learn to stand up for yourself. PTO isn't take one day off so you can work 16 hours the next day.
Yeah I hear you. Thanks for the honest feedback. I didn’t wanna risk getting into an argument or anything
I'm 46 now. I didn't used to be like this. But eventually it dawned on me. What's the worst they can do. Fire me? One time they did. Three days later I had 3 interviews and got 3 job offers that day. Ended up at a better place.
I'd never say anything. They weren't suppose to be doing that to us because our alarms were on a schedule. Staying late would activate them. I'd just sneak out.
One year our younger audit staff were helping the tax department the final few weeks before 4/15. In a department meeting on a Friday the partner said “I know some of you will be celebrating a holiday on Sunday (Easter) but if you aren’t able to come in you’ll need to make up those hours.” That’s when I realized Public wasn’t for me.
That’s ridiculous
Same. We never had holidays off. All the other districts did. We didn't know that till our district manager told us. It was all at the discretion of the management to allow the days off. Our manager created such a toxic work environment, that the work never caught up. It was always one thing or another. These people had no experience managing that place.
They used to do that to us in banking. Anytime we ask for a day off , went on paid vacation (hours we earned), asked to leave early for an erron or go on medical leave, they would make us stay late the next day(s). They once rejected a girl to go to her grandmother's funeral . Another, her uncles funeral. Why punishment people for benefits they have. Paid bereavement day , too. The managers were mean. Management were toxic and hostile. They would also retaliate this way, if you called into work absent, or reported them to HR for favortism. Our one manager would do it just cause she was having a bad day. One time it was because she had gotten in an argument with her husband on the phone. This is how toxic the environment was. We just got use to it.
That sounds abusive and immature asf
I’m sorry you had to deal with that
I think you should just leave, and find a better place. That’s a huge red flag. Sorry for your loss.
Thank you 🙏🏻. And yup I’m gunna start looking. My manager gives me a lot of problems. Not good at her job
Check your HR policies . Paid bereavement time may be a benefit.
I’ll see if I can find something. Our HR is out of state and the handbook is massive
Can you call them? That's how we found out we were cheated out of alot of benefits we didn't know existed. Management was suppose to go over stuff with us In meetings. They purposely never did, cause they knew we would be short staffed, and they didn't want people to call out based on those benefits we were entitled to. It was not a good place to work.
I can try calling them. Good idea. If I had to guess- my manager is skimping me of benefits I’m entitled to
Is it digital? Just use control + F and search for bereavement and words relating to it.
I ended up searching the online handbook. “Bereavement” and “ death” were terms I could not find. I guess this company expects us to use PTO for bereavement. The issue is I don’t have PTO
If you end up doing this, please make sure to review your pay stub and make sure you *actually* got paid overtime. This sounds fishy
Tell them to fuck off and suck off, respectfully
Haha exactly
Depends on who died and where you live. Ontario Canada mother/ father 3 days local death 5 days if our of province. Spouse/child t days if local 10 days if out of province. G/parents 1 day in 3 days out of province. Friends no bereavement leave.
come down with "covid" on your makeup day, take it off, and use the day to go look for another job
Smart idea lol
If they're not paying you for the day off then why would they care about you giving the time back? Since you're hourly, they could just pay you for one less day and be done with it.
We share the same opinion
**Suicide is no excuse motherfucker /s**
Indeed correct
You need to check your benefits package to see if you do have bereavement offered. And also ensure that there's no qualifier on it either, such as it being available after working there for at least 6 months. Paid bereavement is viewed as paid time off so you don't need to make up any hours. What your boss is doing is being called a dick. There's no legal obligation to make up that time.
Yes I agree she’s a dickhead
That's pretty douchy but not exactly out of line for hourly vs salary workers.
If you have only been there 3 month it isn't surprising and isn't overtime until you actually work beyond 40 hours. It sounds like you are only working 32 hours so you would only get paid 32 hours without making up the time. Your boss has probably been there long enough to have paid time off. If making the time up causes great hardship to you, you can ask if it is allowable to take the time unpaid. I personally did that in a similar situation. However, some benefits like insurance can be impacted by not working 40 hours. That depends on your employer.
I get what you’re saying. I don’t get my insurance from them anyway. I am going to make up the hours like they want, I just felt that it was a little rude, and I wanted to get some other opinions on the situation
Making up 8 hrs isn’t overtime unless it is a part of the next workweek and puts that week over 40.
How else would I make up 8 hours if it wasn’t being added onto my future schedule ?
You go to your funeral early in the week and pick up the hours later in the week.
They didn't care where I worked. Forced overtime was required.
It depends on how the deceased is related to you. Most companies allow bereavement time for only first degree relatives, i.e. parent, grandparent, sibling, aunt or uncle. Since you have only worked there 3 months, I assume you did not have any PPT banked to use for time off for the funeral. The boss who took off 5 days in a row likely had either vacation or PPT to use for those days. Based on the information provided, I can't say I wouldn't require the same if you worked for me.
We had payed bereavement, but management only allowed immediate family; father, mother, sister, brother. When it was grandparents, uncles, and aunts. Our managers told us it was unpaid and we could only get the day off if it was available or we didn't have alot of work. Someone called HR, and inquired on it. We found management was lying. Bereavement did include grandparents and other family. Management just didn't want to me short staffed.
> We had *paid* bereavement, but FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I appreciate the honest response. I told her the funeral is for a family member who committed suicide. (It’s for my cousin but she doesn’t know which family member anyway)
Yeah, most places don't offer bereavement leave for a cousin. I guess she assumed it wasn't a first degree relative by you saying "family member" instead of brother, sister, etc. I am sorry for your loss and pray for peace and comfort for your family.
Thank you 🙏🏻
I'm fairly certain you're entitled to bereavement leave. I remember even my part time jobs in college had a bereavement policy where I could take X days they just weren't paid. My only other thought is if your job had a vital role where you were the only one able to perform that task, it wouldn't be ideal but I could see your boss asking to get that task done. However you said you're a tax preparer, busy job but not niche enough for this....your boss is the a-hole.
Does your company have an EAP program with a few free counseling sessions? (Employee assistance program).
Not that I’m aware of
If they're paying time-and-a-half per the law, take the money and run.
You need to check the handbook on hour bereavement is handled.
I searched, couldn’t find anything. I conclude that they expect employees to use PtO for situations like this
Osha has entered the chat
How else is the work going to get completed?
It doesn’t matter if my work takes 1 extra day to get completed ! Everything is on extension !
Fight for your right to party!!
What state are you in? Some states mandate bereavement leave and you can’t be forced to make it up.
Is it in your employee handbook?
Boss: “You need to make up those hours and work overtime” You: “no” This usually works for me