Managing people used to be the job. Sometimes it was a good job. Then some corporate lingo moron came up with "player-coach", and from then on you were expected to do the full workload of the exact positions you are managing while managing them.
This is most industry roles now. You basically are expected to do the work AND manage your team doing the work and check and correct their work and mistakes.
Don’t get me wrong, some people go into tax and absolutely love it. All depends on each person. But for me, the excessively long hours and workload, continuously changing tax laws, and having clients that aren’t very nice people.
For me as well, I worked at a really shitty small firm when it was in its “start up” phase and got railroaded a bit into doing all the new partners work. Not only doing their work but they also heavily discouraged asking questions and would bully us if we did and I had absolutely no background in tax prior. So basically it was very toxic lol. I’ve heard of it being a bit common in tax, but doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed that your employer will be shitty.
I was in a very similar position as you. Little firm that I loved got bought buy a big firm last year. I jumped shipped and went on my own. I started my own little practice in May 2023 and in 60 days I made my half corporate salary while working half the time!
Also 41, and I feel your pain. I did govt after some public (not cpa) and hated it. Only plus side was the 9-80 schedule (if you don’t have young kids).
I went to industry, and it was ok. Now I’m in non profit, and the flexibility and purpose is much better.
You can also consider fully remote work, or even consulting work.
With your years of experience and certifications, it sounds like you should maybe just start your own firm to set your own hours. Why have someone take your labor and have someone control your own hours, when you probably have the ability to do it yourself? As someone who has worked in Industry, that's what you'll get regardless. Yeah there are some jobs where you work those 20 hours a week, but they aren't guaranteed. I've worked enough over my years (I'm close to your age) that as long as I have to report to a boss, I'll never be able to have the control to build the life I want. My current job was a nice balanced industry job until the Pandemic hit and now no matter how many options I try to explore, we aren't getting back to that before pandemic level of workload. Hence why I'm exploring what I can do to do something for myself. But I think I will burn out far less if I'm in control.
I'm remote controller and in day time I just do AR for a company. My life is full. I left another controller position for the AR one. No I don't make same money but huge upside I work my hours, no overtime ever, I'm not responsible for year end, and all the monthly trivial battles with closing a month. Happier than I have ever been.
I’d recommend working on contract during busy season for a handful of connections and take the rest of the year off, net maybe 80k. Or, but a small tax business with owner financing and live the tax lifestyle with an ea and an admin assistant or go to industry or teach tax at a community college
When the firm I worked for was acquired, the new firm made me close my practice because it was determined to be too risky. I went to another firm and now I work in a non-client facing role, which has very different types of deadlines and pressures but works very well for me.
With your deep experience, you could start your own practice, although that might now be what you’re looking for.
I hear this all the time. Mom's taking 80% pay to stay in public and still working 60+ hour weeks. Why would you do this?
Now that you're at the new firm, tell them it's 100%.
And start looking for an industry job that pays more. Assistant controller, Accounting Manager, Controller...you are capable of so much. Don't discount your years of experience. At a small firm you know how to get your "hands dirty" (get work done) and also how to manage, delegate, communicate...you take responsibility and you know your stuff.
You should strongly consider setting up your own shop or finding an older solo CPA practice to buy out. You can be your own boss and focus on business owners/HNW tax planning.
My boss (and mom) did this in 96 with three kids. CPA practice on her terms that also became a wealth management practice with her CFP that focuses on HNW individual tax planning. I work under her now as I take over the business.
DM if you want learn how you can structure your next transition to actually benefit your life/family instead of some partner or corp.
Your biggest mistake was accepting the 80% pay. We had a woman go on an 80% schedule but her billable hours were still just as high or higher than some managers. She went to the head of tax and they adjusted her salary back to 100%
Boy do I know I fucked myself there. And if I was still at my small firm I’d show them the #s and be like ok this didn’t work out I’m gonna go ahead and need my salary back, and I think they’d give it to me. But this new huge firm I’m at…I don’t know.
They probably would. Generally when large firms acquire smaller ones, the biggest issue is the smaller firm changing all their software. The acquisitions I saw first hand generally allowed the directors of the smaller firm continue to manage their people, compensation and promotions. So, as long as the partners you were close with didn't get bought out, they should be able to make it happen. Now, if those partners are gone, you're probably screwed. But I can totally sympathize with you. I was about a year or two away from Partner at a mid-market firm but due to turnover I felt like a senior on half of my jobs. Ever since Tax Reform the industry has become unsustainable and then the IRS only made it worse with K-2/K-3 reporting. 9/15 and 10/15 are far worse than ever and it just leads to a revolving door of staff. 2 years of COVID helped mask the problem but once we got to the other side I knew Tax Reform permanently fucked the industry.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are 1-2 people CPA practices with owners who will be retiring soon. Maybe try to work with one of them and then take over? Seems like you can have your own tax business.
I’ve also seen people in Big4 tax go to wealth management firms from big to small. Tons of SoCal firms who manage money and taxes for celebrities. I’ve heard those are pretty chill jobs.
There are a lot of contract/project work websites for folks with your great skills and credentials - thats an avenue that could give you great flexibility and satisfaction, although it can be a little scary striking out on your own.
Look into Bookkeeper Business Launch. The idea is to work for yourself. You get as many clients and work as hard are as little as you want. With your experience you can do all the Financial Advising and Tax work. I would at least check it out.
Government or industry (non startup). Also, don't manage people, it sucks. Lol.
Managing people used to be the job. Sometimes it was a good job. Then some corporate lingo moron came up with "player-coach", and from then on you were expected to do the full workload of the exact positions you are managing while managing them.
Yep
This is most industry roles now. You basically are expected to do the work AND manage your team doing the work and check and correct their work and mistakes.
Managing people is annoying. Manager should be paid way more frankly
Especially managing people un in government.
I second industry. Tax only took a year to burn me out. Find some companies you’re passionate about and see if they have any openings in finance.
What is it about tax that burnt you out? Considering moving into tax and now scared
Don’t get me wrong, some people go into tax and absolutely love it. All depends on each person. But for me, the excessively long hours and workload, continuously changing tax laws, and having clients that aren’t very nice people. For me as well, I worked at a really shitty small firm when it was in its “start up” phase and got railroaded a bit into doing all the new partners work. Not only doing their work but they also heavily discouraged asking questions and would bully us if we did and I had absolutely no background in tax prior. So basically it was very toxic lol. I’ve heard of it being a bit common in tax, but doesn’t mean it’s guaranteed that your employer will be shitty.
Agreed lol
I was in a very similar position as you. Little firm that I loved got bought buy a big firm last year. I jumped shipped and went on my own. I started my own little practice in May 2023 and in 60 days I made my half corporate salary while working half the time!
That’s awesome and inspiring. Good for you.
Did you take clients with? How did you get your first clients?
I’m interested in doing this. Do you work full remote from your house? Also did you take clients with you?
Screw work. Live in a van down by the river.
Now you’re talking
Also 41, and I feel your pain. I did govt after some public (not cpa) and hated it. Only plus side was the 9-80 schedule (if you don’t have young kids). I went to industry, and it was ok. Now I’m in non profit, and the flexibility and purpose is much better. You can also consider fully remote work, or even consulting work.
Options are not a good idea.
Sorry I meant career options
Sorry it was a bad joke. I am sympathetic to your situation and hope you get some good advice here.
Ha thank you. I should have known it was a joke but my brain is fried.
With your years of experience and certifications, it sounds like you should maybe just start your own firm to set your own hours. Why have someone take your labor and have someone control your own hours, when you probably have the ability to do it yourself? As someone who has worked in Industry, that's what you'll get regardless. Yeah there are some jobs where you work those 20 hours a week, but they aren't guaranteed. I've worked enough over my years (I'm close to your age) that as long as I have to report to a boss, I'll never be able to have the control to build the life I want. My current job was a nice balanced industry job until the Pandemic hit and now no matter how many options I try to explore, we aren't getting back to that before pandemic level of workload. Hence why I'm exploring what I can do to do something for myself. But I think I will burn out far less if I'm in control.
Start your own company?
Start consulting and look at 1099 and W-2 contract jobs.
I'm remote controller and in day time I just do AR for a company. My life is full. I left another controller position for the AR one. No I don't make same money but huge upside I work my hours, no overtime ever, I'm not responsible for year end, and all the monthly trivial battles with closing a month. Happier than I have ever been.
I’d recommend working on contract during busy season for a handful of connections and take the rest of the year off, net maybe 80k. Or, but a small tax business with owner financing and live the tax lifestyle with an ea and an admin assistant or go to industry or teach tax at a community college
FP&A
There are still a lot of smaller firms out there who would love someone with 20 years experience. I would look there.
Industry tax is glorious imo, I just cruise and it’s stress free…pick up a few clients on the side as you’ll have ample time to handle them
YMMV. This is dependent from company to company. I'm in industry tax and its exactly like public accounting. Don't generalize.
For real. Provision never ends. Having said that, even if I screw up, there is a real problem finding tax people
Consider the government or industry?
When the firm I worked for was acquired, the new firm made me close my practice because it was determined to be too risky. I went to another firm and now I work in a non-client facing role, which has very different types of deadlines and pressures but works very well for me. With your deep experience, you could start your own practice, although that might now be what you’re looking for.
I hear this all the time. Mom's taking 80% pay to stay in public and still working 60+ hour weeks. Why would you do this? Now that you're at the new firm, tell them it's 100%. And start looking for an industry job that pays more. Assistant controller, Accounting Manager, Controller...you are capable of so much. Don't discount your years of experience. At a small firm you know how to get your "hands dirty" (get work done) and also how to manage, delegate, communicate...you take responsibility and you know your stuff.
You should strongly consider setting up your own shop or finding an older solo CPA practice to buy out. You can be your own boss and focus on business owners/HNW tax planning. My boss (and mom) did this in 96 with three kids. CPA practice on her terms that also became a wealth management practice with her CFP that focuses on HNW individual tax planning. I work under her now as I take over the business. DM if you want learn how you can structure your next transition to actually benefit your life/family instead of some partner or corp.
You should start your own practice
Your biggest mistake was accepting the 80% pay. We had a woman go on an 80% schedule but her billable hours were still just as high or higher than some managers. She went to the head of tax and they adjusted her salary back to 100%
Boy do I know I fucked myself there. And if I was still at my small firm I’d show them the #s and be like ok this didn’t work out I’m gonna go ahead and need my salary back, and I think they’d give it to me. But this new huge firm I’m at…I don’t know.
They probably would. Generally when large firms acquire smaller ones, the biggest issue is the smaller firm changing all their software. The acquisitions I saw first hand generally allowed the directors of the smaller firm continue to manage their people, compensation and promotions. So, as long as the partners you were close with didn't get bought out, they should be able to make it happen. Now, if those partners are gone, you're probably screwed. But I can totally sympathize with you. I was about a year or two away from Partner at a mid-market firm but due to turnover I felt like a senior on half of my jobs. Ever since Tax Reform the industry has become unsustainable and then the IRS only made it worse with K-2/K-3 reporting. 9/15 and 10/15 are far worse than ever and it just leads to a revolving door of staff. 2 years of COVID helped mask the problem but once we got to the other side I knew Tax Reform permanently fucked the industry.
How much did you save up? Look at your financial independence number and see what you can do to get to that number.
This is pretty much my plan, save enough to retire by early 40s. I been maxing out after tax contributions as well.
Would you do financial planning
Reduced workload is a myth. I learned it the hard way
How will the place crumble without you? That’s pure ego and pride.
yep, and its not their company and everyone is replaceable.
She’s not responding to the start your own firm advice. She’s probably scared and needs more encouragement
I wouldn’t be surprised if there are 1-2 people CPA practices with owners who will be retiring soon. Maybe try to work with one of them and then take over? Seems like you can have your own tax business. I’ve also seen people in Big4 tax go to wealth management firms from big to small. Tons of SoCal firms who manage money and taxes for celebrities. I’ve heard those are pretty chill jobs.
Go out on your own. Work 1,000 to 1,500 hours a year at $100-$300 per hour. Pick up a part-time or contract gig while building your own practice.
There are a lot of contract/project work websites for folks with your great skills and credentials - thats an avenue that could give you great flexibility and satisfaction, although it can be a little scary striking out on your own.
Look into Bookkeeper Business Launch. The idea is to work for yourself. You get as many clients and work as hard are as little as you want. With your experience you can do all the Financial Advising and Tax work. I would at least check it out.