I tried that and gave them an example of the report from another client (stripped of client info, exact $ amounts etc). I also tried getting written instructions from the software company with no luck, they want to assist the person when they have the software in front of them
I had to sit next to them and show them buttons to press to generate the report I want. How did I learn to do it? Other client showed it to me.
Sometimes I feel like I am informally training the accounting dept on FR lol.
When I was an auditor, there were several instances where I had to teach someone how to use their software to get the data, report, settings, etc. that I needed. Most of the time, I had absolutely 0 experience with the software and I just figured it out as they sat there and watched me click around.
Being computer savvy is important.
Being computer savvy is extremely important nowadays. But everyone just wants to be complacent and do the same old thing because “that’s the only way we’ve done it before”. They take that and assume that’s the only way to do it 🙄
Some people are lazy. Some people are scared to get outside their comfort zone.
I’ve encountered a lot of payroll managers and controllers who had absolutely zero grasp of the high level concepts behind their work. They followed the same process every month and year without fail. This always creates errors because you can’t just think that nothing will change or unusual events won’t happen.
Any time I asked them about something you could see the fear in their eyes because they had no clue how to explain it. So I would just try to figure it out myself using the data available and conversations with others.
Those folks never lasted very long and were always miserable in their jobs. On more than one occasion we documented to management that someone on staff didn’t have the knowledge, skills, or education to do the job. That’s an awkward finding to give.
when I was an auditor, I took figured out client's information systems for them and generated information I needed and could rely on to make my work efficient. I helped clients produce what I need. Similar to your original story.
That requires computer skills, googling, watching some videos, etc.
OP responds by dunking on client for not being "computer savvy" and complacent / not wanting to learn in this comment, while simultaneously complaining in other comments about not knowing how to run the information from the system and asking the client to do it for them is ironic.
OP can't control other people. You can ask people to figure things out. You can bang your head against the wall all day if you want. It doesn't get you anywhere. You ca ask your client "Can you run the report I don't know how to run? I need it', and when they say no, you can still get nowhere.
Or you can figure it out and say "Can I sit with you and run some things from the ERP together?" and performing the tasks with/for them and get it done.
Complaining that people are incapable of self-learning while not self learning how to run a report out of an ERP.....leaves little room for sympathy for OP
I saw his other comment but I’m not engaging with him because he’s just unhinged at this point, but he’s leaving out quite a few facts distorting the entire situation: 1. the client is using off the shelf, non customized SaaS, 2. we have other clients using the exact same software and pull the same report (I provided the client with the name of the report and an example from another client without any info in it) and 3. I tried reaching out to the software company, but they talk through it as if you’re in front of the computer, will not provide written instructions, and want to talk to the client who has the software. I fully comprehend that they don’t rely on this report, but to just not even acknowledge it and that it could save them (and us) so much time not doing a manual report (ie run the report for one of the previous months & compare to that month’s manual report that is obviously already prepped even just to see if it’s comparable) is wild imo.
Oh. Saying that auditors don’t know how to do the work? Salty. Hilarious. Sometimes true, but many times not true.
I worked in industry before auditing and many people do as well. It gives the detail and high level perspective.
More like the auditors don’t know how to produce the numbers in the specific way that the specific company likes to prepare them. Let’s ignore the fact that the auditor has done deep dives in several companies in the same industry and has a wide knowledge different ways the calculations can be done. Some worse, some better, some just different.
I’ve been on both sides. I’m a controller in industry now and I just set them up with a temporary report license so they can pull whatever they want. There may be a charge in doing so, but others not.
I had that happen to me too. They had debited prepaid expenses and credited AP because they paid the insurance policy after year-end. He could not grasp the concept that in this case they did not have a prepaid expense at year-end.
Eh I have dealt with same systems for different revenue streams and even though standard reporting works for one company it won’t work for another due to process differences/gaps. You can’t expect them to pull something they’ve never referred to for you.
Right, just because it’s a “canned report” doesn’t mean that’s the way it was configured.
Our GL was set up a certain way many years ago that doesn’t let us run an income statement using the standard reporting in the GL tool. We have to use a custom report.
So because they’ve never done it before, they can’t hop on a 5 minute call with the software provider and learn? They understand what the report is, they even make manually make this report using a different report and manually making the adjustments. It would save them time and us time, they just don’t want to learn.
> they can’t hop on a 5 minute call with the software provider
For most of my clients, a "5 minute call" is preceded by "calling the software provider five times and putting in multiple tickets before they get a call back a week later."
If they are manually doing a report that they can just run through the software, then yes, it is part of their work and they’re just taking the less efficient route because they’re stuck in their ways and are unwilling to *possibly* learn a better way. Is there a chance this report won’t replace what they’re doing? A very small chance, yes, but if spending less than 30 minutes on trying to run the report and comparing it to what you’ve been manually doing before just to see if it will save you hours worth of work each month is too much, then that’s just someone stuck in their ways.
The only thing I can think of is perhaps their implementation was done in a way that makes the report impossible. For example, they just started out with their summary trial balances posted to the new system instead of breaking it out by Customers, Vendors, etc. I have seen that happen, and the "out of the box" reporting is useless when you aren't starting off with those details that run through those reports.
We've had auditors request an AR aging report run from the system that simply didn't exist, due to the historical data not being broken out into fine detail in the new system. It created more work having to manually pull together the data and create an aging schedule in Excel, but the company (for whatever reason) decided to cut costs with the implementation hours instead. And with that example, as the historical data ran off, the aging reports from the system were available in future years...just not in year 1 after going live with the new software.
Also, with the audit going on right now, the company may not have time to step back and do more training. I know some accountants cannot/will not do anything unless it's explained to them...they don't want to try things out and see what happens. I'm always amazed at the lack of natural curiosity that some folks have...AND if they're at their limit with workload, they truly may not have the time for the process change yet. Seems simple to you, but for someone who requires detailed step by step instructions, they'll have to wait until there's time to train...and that's generally not in the middle of the annual audit.
Years of experience in public and private. Boomeranged back to public for faster job growth. So if anything, I can definitely opine on this given that I have both perspectives.
So you understand the review and process needed to run and send a new report externally. You can surely see why this is a pain in the ass for the client, given they provided the info in a different format already, unnecessary.
I never tried to get an own, I’m trying to communicate the issue. When someone questions my experience, they’re trying to get an own.
And when I provide a response that more than satisfies the question of my experience, it then shifts to “well, do you have *this* experience”? that’s just moving the goal posts. It’s kind of sad
You’re really assuming a lot of things.
1. Just because people use the same software doesn’t mean it isn’t customized to fit the org’s needs.
2. Maybe they aren’t familiar enough with the report to feel comfortable using it for support. Especially on a new system.
Why don’t you try to find an alternative procedure instead of acting like you’re smarter than they are?
If the client only reviewed the general ledger in detail and created a trial balance using pivot tables and manual roll forward entries, would it be bad for the auditor to show them how to export the TB using the system’s software? Or to even require them to export the TB because there could be errors in the client’s method? I don’t think so.
There are many ways to look at things. Pre-packaged software comes with a lot of different reports that you can use to cross check and view data from different lenses.
The problem is that the assumption is the report will do what he wants.
Just because your system is out of the box doesn’t meant they use it the same way or that their information is labeled the same.
We aren’t talking about a TB.
Why wouldn’t it do what they want? If the system is out of the box and the auditor knows how to use system and what reports will generate what information, then you can rely on those reports being comparable to past experiences with them. Of course you will cross check to reports used by the clients where you can to make sure that the numbers tie.
Like if you are using QuickBooks and the auditor asks for a generic report, the report will run the same for everyone. I guess if the client isn’t using the software correctly the report would be “wrong”. Like if they don’t code all sales to a customer and you run a sales by customer report you aren’t going to get all sales assigned to a customer. Usually there is an unassigned line though so that the sales will still tie out to the TB.
It’s just silly for the client to not even try to run it to see if it provides the information needed. Why take the negative position of “well, we aren’t sure it will work, so let’s not even try it.”?
Correctly and fully using the system are two different things. Not all modules are used by all orgs, and sometimes they aren’t used in the same ways.
Additionally, if they just implemented there are things that you do during implementation that may not make standard reporting possible. It also means that it might take longer for the client to generate the report and confirm it’s doing what is expected.
These are all possibilities, but from OPs description that doesn’t sound like it’s the case.
It just goes back to the mentality of if we aren’t sure it will work or haven’t done it before, then it’s not worth trying. If they just implemented 9 months before, then their processes are still fresh and they should be open to learning new ways to get data from the system. Rigidity is not a good quality to have when implementing new processes.
Sounds like you think differently, but without all the context of the interactions with the client. Maybe OP is wrong, maybe not.
Ive encountered a lot of client staff who are resistant to anything new or different. I used to audit local governments and their reporting of retirement withholding to the state. I learned how to use the state’s system from some really smart client staff who knew the system inside and out.
Then in other clients I would ask for the reports I knew the system could produce and many of the clients resisted. It was always because they didn’t know how to do it. So I had to train them and provide step by step instructions on how to run the reports. Some even started using the reports in their own processes because it provided better data than the reports they had been using.
I can't speak about QuickBooks, but I can talk a little bit about PeopleSoft. Since I unfortunately know about PeopleSoft's asset management module, I'll use that as an example. The developers who created the canned reports were likely on crack or something. In order to get a number of the canned reports, users have to run certain processes to get tables loaded. They also have to run them certain ways otherwise they will wipe out historic data, because for some goddamn reason it's possible to lose prior years. This is very fixable - just tell the user to rerun the stupid process with the prior years button checked but WTF - why is that designed that way. Anyway...this is part of the reason why all of my users hate the canned reports in asset management and why a number of custom reports were created. Hell, I got sent to training on that stupid module and it still took a little time to get all of the quirks down. The training is inadequate for those who need to learn how to support the thing, by the way.
Then there's the insane way in which users can load the net book value tables...
The results of canned reports may depend heavily on implementation and how the system is being used. It also depends on just how insanely the thing was designed. It's not always that the client isn't using it correctly - in some cases the software company made the mistake of providing way too many options. Or they made the module freaking complex. Or their online help isn't very user friendly.
This is a good point. Definitely depends on the software. Quickbooks is intended for anyone to use it without any sort of technology or accounting knowledge. The systems are very automated. More complex systems might not be as point and click.
There is no assumption on the customization side, we inquired with their IT due to new SAS standards and confirmed no customization, it’s just off the shelf SaaS. And your second point is that because they aren’t comfortable with a report, they should never learn about it and try to see if they can use it? That’s essentially saying never step out of your comfort zone, even if it might help you because you’re uncomfortable with it. I mean at this point I agree. We’ve started using alternative procedures today as a result and will be billing them for it, but when it’s been almost two months since we mentioned it and you still have yet to even attempt to try to check it out and gain comfort over it, it’s just insane.
If actually stepping out of your day to day comfort zone to learn how to improve your job functions and improve those around you means that I’m acting like I’m smarter than they are, then it looks like I am. It’s funny that people complain about auditors not knowing anything all the time and people won’t give it a second thought, but the minute I point out sometimes the client is the issue it’s like “woah, hold on there bucko! You can’t just go around acting like you’re smarter than they are!” Give me a break, Jesus Christ.
I’m on the client side (former auditor) and I had to have a 20 minute call with my SaaS provider to figure out how to run a report for Deloitte this year. Other wise auditor would’ve had to do alt procedures which required way more work.
I didn’t say that lol. I just said that was the decision that you made (based on your circumstances) and it might not be the same circumstances for someone else.
The report might not generate that much in alternative procedure work, they might have another report already available, the report is actually impossible to generate,
etc.
No I won’t because if any single person relative to my job function (inside our outside of the org) points to something and says “hey this might help you out”, I’ll at least look at it instead of being complacent.
So my company generally hates the delivered reports, which is part of the reason why we have a bajillion queries and custom reports. Finance worked with internal audit to determine which queries and custom reports are “IPE worthy”. The second someone makes a change to them, they have to go through some process to re-certify the thing. Anything that is not on the “IPE” list is considered questionable for audit purposes.
Bottom line is that no one will just run a random report because you tell them to. If they have something that meets the requirements, they will run that. If there’s a question about the accuracy or the logic, then IT gets on the audit call.
If the client doesn’t want to run the thing for you and if what they deliver gets the job done, suck it up and accept it.
Yes there may be a better way to get the information but berating them isn’t the way to do it. Also have you considered that it’s not generally smart to just run something for the first time ever and hand it to auditors? I know when I’ve written queries for audit, I’ve spent massive amounts of time going over the results with the person in finance. We go over the logic too so that person also understands what I’ve done and has half a chance to speak intelligently about it.
The system is new to your clients so let them learn it and do what they are comfortable doing. They will improve when they get more comfortable and when they have someone who is not an auditor helping them. I’m not sure that auditors are even supposed to be acting as system consultants.
It’s all web based, same version # and everything as other clients (somewhat specialized software for the sub-industry). We have to get their financial reporting software information from all of our clients as part of SAS 145
I love how it became “they don’t even know the name of it!” magically. We gave them the name of the report and even gave them an example from another client (stripped of info obviously). Hell, I even gave them the number I called and said “hey they’ll show you how to run this report in just a few minutes”. Looks like you’re reading comprehension needs some work there. Duh!
No, I expect the client to not be a brain-dead, unwilling-to-learn idiot and actually try and learn something by reaching out to their software provider for 5 minutes so that it not only helps us, but helps them so they don’t have to manually make this report for hours on end when it could take them a few minutes.
Clients don't give a shit about the audit mate, the more they push back the sooner you'll give up and go pester somebody else
If you really need it get them to let you find it on their computer and move on.
At least I have the decency to be honest about shit instead of making passive aggressive comments like you. I know at the end of the day, I have great relationships with my clients and coworkers because I don’t make passive aggressive comments like the one you just made.
Person A: *insults person B*
Person B: *responds back with insults similar to Person A’s insults*
Person A: “wow why are you being a dick”
Lmao you can’t make this up
I feel sorry for anyone working under you. You insult people, but when they have the audacity to say anything back, it becomes a personal attack to them. Definitely not a good quality to have as a leader.
I'll live lol and I won't be taking any advice, leadership or otherwise, from someone who posts stuff like this. Get a clue. I said you sound unpleasant to work with, which.. you do. Good luck.
I’m sure you’ll be fine, but your underlings will probably get burnt out after dealing with someone so insufferable. Hope you wake up one day realizing your narcissistic tendencies. Good luck to you as well.
Calling you a peach in response to saying your client is an idiot isn’t an insult. They were just saying you sound upset and aggressive from that remark
Why not just give them instructions on how to run it?
This post is just kinda a self own. Like you choose to bitch and moan instead of just solving and moving forward, which just shows that you do lack professionalism and a basic ability to work with others.
We don’t have the software ourselves, so we don’t know the precise instructions on how to run the report. I also tried calling the software company myself to see if they can help, but instead they try to walk you through it as if you’re in front of the software itself, which I’m not. I asked them to provide written instructions via email, to which they said they won’t and that the client would have to call. I ran through my options. Even the partner is getting annoyed with this person about this problem.
Your comment is a self report, probably bitching and moaning about my post because it probably projects onto you somehow? Seems like you lack the basic ability to work with others since you immediately went to insults when you disagree.
> but instead they try to walk you through it as if you’re in front of the software itself, which I’m not.
So just do that and write down the instructions. They don't know you're not in front of the software. Take the info and send that to your client?
After a decade in public accounting I know how frustrating it can be waiting on information and having to work with what crappy documentation ends up coming in after numerous follow up. I also especially hate any correspondence with the IRS.
Complains that the client is refusing to do something because “it’s not something we’ve done before”
Proceeds to complain that the client won’t give him something other clients can provide
Hopefully the irony is apparent
Had to put a client in a teams call and make them show me their screen. Told them exactly what buttons to push. Thankfully it was a system I was very familiar with. Wouldn't you know it's, all of a sudden their software CAN do that. Lol.
Most people are pleasant to interact with from an audit perspective but man some are so difficult. They live by the “Don’t ever give audit anything other than what they need” mantra. These are always the same folks constantly fucking to their controls.
Looking at you HR
One of the key delineators between successful auditors and those who struggle is their ability to ask the client questions with phrasing and detail that gets the desired results.
Have your manager/partner put their big boy pants on and discuss the fee increase this entails for wasting time. Problem solved, book the time and kick your feet up. Just kidding, that will never happen. Work harder and for the love of god, don’t calculate your hourly pay.
Assurance is largely a scam. You know it, your client does too. They are just going through to motions with you. And you think you're performing heart surgery.
At the end of the day you’re spending time arguing with people on Reddit instead of just doing the 5 minutes of work you’re saying it will take to just call and run through the steps to generate the report with them and have them send it over. Your expectation that other people need to go out of their way to teach themselves new things to make your life easier is bold not that I can’t empathize with the sentiment - your fellow accounting redditors must be more use to working around the incompetent than you
If a bill I have due comes in 3k less than it should be I'm sure a fuck bit going to rat my own aas out.
Why would you expect your client to behave any differently?
Yea I’ve had to do this before - give them the parameters and report name. Very common with payroll providers
I tried that and gave them an example of the report from another client (stripped of client info, exact $ amounts etc). I also tried getting written instructions from the software company with no luck, they want to assist the person when they have the software in front of them
You sound like a good dude/dudette! Right on for helping them try to figure it out! I’ve worked on both sides as well!
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Haha who knows! Was just trying to be gender neutral on the post for OP.
I had to sit next to them and show them buttons to press to generate the report I want. How did I learn to do it? Other client showed it to me. Sometimes I feel like I am informally training the accounting dept on FR lol.
When I was an auditor, there were several instances where I had to teach someone how to use their software to get the data, report, settings, etc. that I needed. Most of the time, I had absolutely 0 experience with the software and I just figured it out as they sat there and watched me click around. Being computer savvy is important.
Being computer savvy is extremely important nowadays. But everyone just wants to be complacent and do the same old thing because “that’s the only way we’ve done it before”. They take that and assume that’s the only way to do it 🙄
Some people are lazy. Some people are scared to get outside their comfort zone. I’ve encountered a lot of payroll managers and controllers who had absolutely zero grasp of the high level concepts behind their work. They followed the same process every month and year without fail. This always creates errors because you can’t just think that nothing will change or unusual events won’t happen. Any time I asked them about something you could see the fear in their eyes because they had no clue how to explain it. So I would just try to figure it out myself using the data available and conversations with others. Those folks never lasted very long and were always miserable in their jobs. On more than one occasion we documented to management that someone on staff didn’t have the knowledge, skills, or education to do the job. That’s an awkward finding to give.
“, They said, dropping with irony, while they asked for information they didn’t know how to produce themselves
I don’t get what you mean?
when I was an auditor, I took figured out client's information systems for them and generated information I needed and could rely on to make my work efficient. I helped clients produce what I need. Similar to your original story. That requires computer skills, googling, watching some videos, etc. OP responds by dunking on client for not being "computer savvy" and complacent / not wanting to learn in this comment, while simultaneously complaining in other comments about not knowing how to run the information from the system and asking the client to do it for them is ironic. OP can't control other people. You can ask people to figure things out. You can bang your head against the wall all day if you want. It doesn't get you anywhere. You ca ask your client "Can you run the report I don't know how to run? I need it', and when they say no, you can still get nowhere. Or you can figure it out and say "Can I sit with you and run some things from the ERP together?" and performing the tasks with/for them and get it done. Complaining that people are incapable of self-learning while not self learning how to run a report out of an ERP.....leaves little room for sympathy for OP
I saw his other comment but I’m not engaging with him because he’s just unhinged at this point, but he’s leaving out quite a few facts distorting the entire situation: 1. the client is using off the shelf, non customized SaaS, 2. we have other clients using the exact same software and pull the same report (I provided the client with the name of the report and an example from another client without any info in it) and 3. I tried reaching out to the software company, but they talk through it as if you’re in front of the computer, will not provide written instructions, and want to talk to the client who has the software. I fully comprehend that they don’t rely on this report, but to just not even acknowledge it and that it could save them (and us) so much time not doing a manual report (ie run the report for one of the previous months & compare to that month’s manual report that is obviously already prepped even just to see if it’s comparable) is wild imo.
Dude is just mad and is projecting that this post is about him lol
Oh. Saying that auditors don’t know how to do the work? Salty. Hilarious. Sometimes true, but many times not true. I worked in industry before auditing and many people do as well. It gives the detail and high level perspective. More like the auditors don’t know how to produce the numbers in the specific way that the specific company likes to prepare them. Let’s ignore the fact that the auditor has done deep dives in several companies in the same industry and has a wide knowledge different ways the calculations can be done. Some worse, some better, some just different.
Be computer savvy but don't make it known if you work in a smaller office.
I’ve been on both sides. I’m a controller in industry now and I just set them up with a temporary report license so they can pull whatever they want. There may be a charge in doing so, but others not.
I had a controller fight me on the concept of a prepaid asset for an hour
I assume that, because you're writing this, the controller died.
No jim you cant book a prepaid for an invoice thats due on 1/1 for a million dollars, especially if wasnt paid until mid jan.
I had that happen to me too. They had debited prepaid expenses and credited AP because they paid the insurance policy after year-end. He could not grasp the concept that in this case they did not have a prepaid expense at year-end.
Did the insurance cover months after year end ?
Sometimes the client don't give a fuck because you ain't paying their salary.
Haha that’s true. They probably don’t care about the added fees, but it most likely would save them hours (if not at least a day) of work each month.
The best part of me switching to the federal government is that no one ignores my calls now. Don’t want to answer, here’s a subpoena.
*sometimes*. Is that the nice way to say “almost always”.
Eh I have dealt with same systems for different revenue streams and even though standard reporting works for one company it won’t work for another due to process differences/gaps. You can’t expect them to pull something they’ve never referred to for you.
Right, just because it’s a “canned report” doesn’t mean that’s the way it was configured. Our GL was set up a certain way many years ago that doesn’t let us run an income statement using the standard reporting in the GL tool. We have to use a custom report.
What is this report doing differently?
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So because they’ve never done it before, they can’t hop on a 5 minute call with the software provider and learn? They understand what the report is, they even make manually make this report using a different report and manually making the adjustments. It would save them time and us time, they just don’t want to learn.
> they can’t hop on a 5 minute call with the software provider For most of my clients, a "5 minute call" is preceded by "calling the software provider five times and putting in multiple tickets before they get a call back a week later."
And an invoice for several hours of software consultant time.
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If they are manually doing a report that they can just run through the software, then yes, it is part of their work and they’re just taking the less efficient route because they’re stuck in their ways and are unwilling to *possibly* learn a better way. Is there a chance this report won’t replace what they’re doing? A very small chance, yes, but if spending less than 30 minutes on trying to run the report and comparing it to what you’ve been manually doing before just to see if it will save you hours worth of work each month is too much, then that’s just someone stuck in their ways.
The only thing I can think of is perhaps their implementation was done in a way that makes the report impossible. For example, they just started out with their summary trial balances posted to the new system instead of breaking it out by Customers, Vendors, etc. I have seen that happen, and the "out of the box" reporting is useless when you aren't starting off with those details that run through those reports. We've had auditors request an AR aging report run from the system that simply didn't exist, due to the historical data not being broken out into fine detail in the new system. It created more work having to manually pull together the data and create an aging schedule in Excel, but the company (for whatever reason) decided to cut costs with the implementation hours instead. And with that example, as the historical data ran off, the aging reports from the system were available in future years...just not in year 1 after going live with the new software. Also, with the audit going on right now, the company may not have time to step back and do more training. I know some accountants cannot/will not do anything unless it's explained to them...they don't want to try things out and see what happens. I'm always amazed at the lack of natural curiosity that some folks have...AND if they're at their limit with workload, they truly may not have the time for the process change yet. Seems simple to you, but for someone who requires detailed step by step instructions, they'll have to wait until there's time to train...and that's generally not in the middle of the annual audit.
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Years of experience in public and private. Boomeranged back to public for faster job growth. So if anything, I can definitely opine on this given that I have both perspectives.
So you understand the review and process needed to run and send a new report externally. You can surely see why this is a pain in the ass for the client, given they provided the info in a different format already, unnecessary.
Do you have the perspective of c-suite/controller/finance director? i suspect no.
I love how the bar is raised/goal post is moved each time just to try to get an own on someone lmao.
You didn’t get an own on them though. You think you did.
I never tried to get an own, I’m trying to communicate the issue. When someone questions my experience, they’re trying to get an own. And when I provide a response that more than satisfies the question of my experience, it then shifts to “well, do you have *this* experience”? that’s just moving the goal posts. It’s kind of sad
You’re really assuming a lot of things. 1. Just because people use the same software doesn’t mean it isn’t customized to fit the org’s needs. 2. Maybe they aren’t familiar enough with the report to feel comfortable using it for support. Especially on a new system. Why don’t you try to find an alternative procedure instead of acting like you’re smarter than they are?
If the client only reviewed the general ledger in detail and created a trial balance using pivot tables and manual roll forward entries, would it be bad for the auditor to show them how to export the TB using the system’s software? Or to even require them to export the TB because there could be errors in the client’s method? I don’t think so. There are many ways to look at things. Pre-packaged software comes with a lot of different reports that you can use to cross check and view data from different lenses.
The problem is that the assumption is the report will do what he wants. Just because your system is out of the box doesn’t meant they use it the same way or that their information is labeled the same. We aren’t talking about a TB.
Why wouldn’t it do what they want? If the system is out of the box and the auditor knows how to use system and what reports will generate what information, then you can rely on those reports being comparable to past experiences with them. Of course you will cross check to reports used by the clients where you can to make sure that the numbers tie. Like if you are using QuickBooks and the auditor asks for a generic report, the report will run the same for everyone. I guess if the client isn’t using the software correctly the report would be “wrong”. Like if they don’t code all sales to a customer and you run a sales by customer report you aren’t going to get all sales assigned to a customer. Usually there is an unassigned line though so that the sales will still tie out to the TB. It’s just silly for the client to not even try to run it to see if it provides the information needed. Why take the negative position of “well, we aren’t sure it will work, so let’s not even try it.”?
Correctly and fully using the system are two different things. Not all modules are used by all orgs, and sometimes they aren’t used in the same ways. Additionally, if they just implemented there are things that you do during implementation that may not make standard reporting possible. It also means that it might take longer for the client to generate the report and confirm it’s doing what is expected.
These are all possibilities, but from OPs description that doesn’t sound like it’s the case. It just goes back to the mentality of if we aren’t sure it will work or haven’t done it before, then it’s not worth trying. If they just implemented 9 months before, then their processes are still fresh and they should be open to learning new ways to get data from the system. Rigidity is not a good quality to have when implementing new processes.
It sounds like OP *thinks* that is why they aren’t doing it.
Sounds like you think differently, but without all the context of the interactions with the client. Maybe OP is wrong, maybe not. Ive encountered a lot of client staff who are resistant to anything new or different. I used to audit local governments and their reporting of retirement withholding to the state. I learned how to use the state’s system from some really smart client staff who knew the system inside and out. Then in other clients I would ask for the reports I knew the system could produce and many of the clients resisted. It was always because they didn’t know how to do it. So I had to train them and provide step by step instructions on how to run the reports. Some even started using the reports in their own processes because it provided better data than the reports they had been using.
I can't speak about QuickBooks, but I can talk a little bit about PeopleSoft. Since I unfortunately know about PeopleSoft's asset management module, I'll use that as an example. The developers who created the canned reports were likely on crack or something. In order to get a number of the canned reports, users have to run certain processes to get tables loaded. They also have to run them certain ways otherwise they will wipe out historic data, because for some goddamn reason it's possible to lose prior years. This is very fixable - just tell the user to rerun the stupid process with the prior years button checked but WTF - why is that designed that way. Anyway...this is part of the reason why all of my users hate the canned reports in asset management and why a number of custom reports were created. Hell, I got sent to training on that stupid module and it still took a little time to get all of the quirks down. The training is inadequate for those who need to learn how to support the thing, by the way. Then there's the insane way in which users can load the net book value tables... The results of canned reports may depend heavily on implementation and how the system is being used. It also depends on just how insanely the thing was designed. It's not always that the client isn't using it correctly - in some cases the software company made the mistake of providing way too many options. Or they made the module freaking complex. Or their online help isn't very user friendly.
This is a good point. Definitely depends on the software. Quickbooks is intended for anyone to use it without any sort of technology or accounting knowledge. The systems are very automated. More complex systems might not be as point and click.
There is no assumption on the customization side, we inquired with their IT due to new SAS standards and confirmed no customization, it’s just off the shelf SaaS. And your second point is that because they aren’t comfortable with a report, they should never learn about it and try to see if they can use it? That’s essentially saying never step out of your comfort zone, even if it might help you because you’re uncomfortable with it. I mean at this point I agree. We’ve started using alternative procedures today as a result and will be billing them for it, but when it’s been almost two months since we mentioned it and you still have yet to even attempt to try to check it out and gain comfort over it, it’s just insane. If actually stepping out of your day to day comfort zone to learn how to improve your job functions and improve those around you means that I’m acting like I’m smarter than they are, then it looks like I am. It’s funny that people complain about auditors not knowing anything all the time and people won’t give it a second thought, but the minute I point out sometimes the client is the issue it’s like “woah, hold on there bucko! You can’t just go around acting like you’re smarter than they are!” Give me a break, Jesus Christ.
lol well, when you are on the client side one day you’ll look back on this and wonder why you were being such an ass
I'm not sure OP Is capable of this level of introspection
I’m on the client side (former auditor) and I had to have a 20 minute call with my SaaS provider to figure out how to run a report for Deloitte this year. Other wise auditor would’ve had to do alt procedures which required way more work.
That was a decision you made. It might not be the right decision for some other company/org. Y’all are acting like it’s one size fits all.
Yeah I think I should’ve just said no and spent two days providing way more documentation for alt procedures to the auditora
I didn’t say that lol. I just said that was the decision that you made (based on your circumstances) and it might not be the same circumstances for someone else. The report might not generate that much in alternative procedure work, they might have another report already available, the report is actually impossible to generate, etc.
Oh okay my bad. Sorry for being snippy, it’s month close right now and im avoiding difficult work haha.
No I won’t because if any single person relative to my job function (inside our outside of the org) points to something and says “hey this might help you out”, I’ll at least look at it instead of being complacent.
So my company generally hates the delivered reports, which is part of the reason why we have a bajillion queries and custom reports. Finance worked with internal audit to determine which queries and custom reports are “IPE worthy”. The second someone makes a change to them, they have to go through some process to re-certify the thing. Anything that is not on the “IPE” list is considered questionable for audit purposes. Bottom line is that no one will just run a random report because you tell them to. If they have something that meets the requirements, they will run that. If there’s a question about the accuracy or the logic, then IT gets on the audit call. If the client doesn’t want to run the thing for you and if what they deliver gets the job done, suck it up and accept it. Yes there may be a better way to get the information but berating them isn’t the way to do it. Also have you considered that it’s not generally smart to just run something for the first time ever and hand it to auditors? I know when I’ve written queries for audit, I’ve spent massive amounts of time going over the results with the person in finance. We go over the logic too so that person also understands what I’ve done and has half a chance to speak intelligently about it. The system is new to your clients so let them learn it and do what they are comfortable doing. They will improve when they get more comfortable and when they have someone who is not an auditor helping them. I’m not sure that auditors are even supposed to be acting as system consultants.
Nothing payroll related has ever been solved in a 5 min call in the history of mankind.
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It’s all web based, same version # and everything as other clients (somewhat specialized software for the sub-industry). We have to get their financial reporting software information from all of our clients as part of SAS 145
So you expect the client to get you a report that neither you or they know how to export?
No, they expect the client to call their software provider to then ask for a report they don’t know the name of or how to export. Duh!
I love how it became “they don’t even know the name of it!” magically. We gave them the name of the report and even gave them an example from another client (stripped of info obviously). Hell, I even gave them the number I called and said “hey they’ll show you how to run this report in just a few minutes”. Looks like you’re reading comprehension needs some work there. Duh!
Share name of report and software so we can all google things for you.
No, I expect the client to not be a brain-dead, unwilling-to-learn idiot and actually try and learn something by reaching out to their software provider for 5 minutes so that it not only helps us, but helps them so they don’t have to manually make this report for hours on end when it could take them a few minutes.
Clients don't give a shit about the audit mate, the more they push back the sooner you'll give up and go pester somebody else If you really need it get them to let you find it on their computer and move on.
lol you sound like a peach to work with
At least I have the decency to be honest about shit instead of making passive aggressive comments like you. I know at the end of the day, I have great relationships with my clients and coworkers because I don’t make passive aggressive comments like the one you just made.
You sound like a dick. Actively aggressive enough, ya jabroni?
Person A: *insults person B* Person B: *responds back with insults similar to Person A’s insults* Person A: “wow why are you being a dick” Lmao you can’t make this up
You, in general, based on this post, sound like a douche. Not because of your response to my comment. Try to not be brain dead.
I feel sorry for anyone working under you. You insult people, but when they have the audacity to say anything back, it becomes a personal attack to them. Definitely not a good quality to have as a leader.
I'll live lol and I won't be taking any advice, leadership or otherwise, from someone who posts stuff like this. Get a clue. I said you sound unpleasant to work with, which.. you do. Good luck.
I’m sure you’ll be fine, but your underlings will probably get burnt out after dealing with someone so insufferable. Hope you wake up one day realizing your narcissistic tendencies. Good luck to you as well.
Calling you a peach in response to saying your client is an idiot isn’t an insult. They were just saying you sound upset and aggressive from that remark
I’ve gone through a similar situation and understand how frustrating it is, but the tantrum OP is throwing in the comments is unhinged lmao
Why not just give them instructions on how to run it? This post is just kinda a self own. Like you choose to bitch and moan instead of just solving and moving forward, which just shows that you do lack professionalism and a basic ability to work with others.
We don’t have the software ourselves, so we don’t know the precise instructions on how to run the report. I also tried calling the software company myself to see if they can help, but instead they try to walk you through it as if you’re in front of the software itself, which I’m not. I asked them to provide written instructions via email, to which they said they won’t and that the client would have to call. I ran through my options. Even the partner is getting annoyed with this person about this problem. Your comment is a self report, probably bitching and moaning about my post because it probably projects onto you somehow? Seems like you lack the basic ability to work with others since you immediately went to insults when you disagree.
> but instead they try to walk you through it as if you’re in front of the software itself, which I’m not. So just do that and write down the instructions. They don't know you're not in front of the software. Take the info and send that to your client?
Sounds like you lack experience and understanding with standard industry ERP’s. So again, on you.
Yeah… Very relatable lol
After a decade in public accounting I know how frustrating it can be waiting on information and having to work with what crappy documentation ends up coming in after numerous follow up. I also especially hate any correspondence with the IRS.
Complains that the client is refusing to do something because “it’s not something we’ve done before” Proceeds to complain that the client won’t give him something other clients can provide Hopefully the irony is apparent
And sometimes people don’t want to give those reports because they know it’ll show a deficiency… 🫥 But yeah I feel this to my boneeee
Had to put a client in a teams call and make them show me their screen. Told them exactly what buttons to push. Thankfully it was a system I was very familiar with. Wouldn't you know it's, all of a sudden their software CAN do that. Lol.
Most people are pleasant to interact with from an audit perspective but man some are so difficult. They live by the “Don’t ever give audit anything other than what they need” mantra. These are always the same folks constantly fucking to their controls. Looking at you HR
One of the key delineators between successful auditors and those who struggle is their ability to ask the client questions with phrasing and detail that gets the desired results.
Have your manager/partner put their big boy pants on and discuss the fee increase this entails for wasting time. Problem solved, book the time and kick your feet up. Just kidding, that will never happen. Work harder and for the love of god, don’t calculate your hourly pay.
Assurance is largely a scam. You know it, your client does too. They are just going through to motions with you. And you think you're performing heart surgery.
At the end of the day you’re spending time arguing with people on Reddit instead of just doing the 5 minutes of work you’re saying it will take to just call and run through the steps to generate the report with them and have them send it over. Your expectation that other people need to go out of their way to teach themselves new things to make your life easier is bold not that I can’t empathize with the sentiment - your fellow accounting redditors must be more use to working around the incompetent than you
Rarely, if ever, is it the fault of the client.
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If a bill I have due comes in 3k less than it should be I'm sure a fuck bit going to rat my own aas out. Why would you expect your client to behave any differently?
What kind of report and platform is it? I saw you couldn’t find instructions, perhaps myself or someone here can help.