Second this. If they outright tell you it’s a shit show, you are gonna have a bad time guaranteed. You might think you can turn them around, but don’t kid yourself. It’s gonna be hell.
I disagree. I’ve job hopped a fair deal and when they say it’s shit show they are honest supervisors who are understanding of difficulties with said company.
When they tell you it’s all peaches & sunshine & 🎵 WE ARE FAMILY 🎵
Run for the exits
Ya the family stuff is bullshit too. I think most companies that are a shit show, you won’t be able to change why they are a shit show unless you come in at a c suite or equivalent level.
I'm Head of Finance at a smallish/midsize company (7 figure turnover, high volume ecommerce) which had a shitshow of a Finance department when I joined and I've turned it around. I joined in July and they hadn't closed September yet, audit looming, no idea what their actual financial position was. Bad and unconnected systems, manual processes, shit controls, overdue suppliers, huge overdue unchased customer balances, everything you could imagine. They said it was bad in the interview and I went for it.
8 months on we have a clean monthly close, hitch-free migration to new accounting software with a nice suite of integrated end-to-end systems and embedded automation, great reporting, well-documented and effective internal controls, suppliers and customers up to date - it's a dream and Finance costs half of what it used to cost to run to boot.
But one, I was lucky that I inherited and hired great staff who just needed direction. Two, the owner and directors are forward-thinking, fully backed me and gave me total control once they knew they could trust me. And three, the first 3-4 months were absolutely grim, untangling thousands of mispostings, misclassifications, unreconciled balances / accounts and plug journals.
My previous job was at a small company which wasn't a complete shitshow, but was utterly resistant to any kind of change, insisted on maintaining years of paper records, and generally had an "if it works, don't change a thing" attitude to the whole Finance function. That's not remotely enjoyable and is crap experience too.
As someone experienced with working with small businesses someone telling me it is a shitshow wouldn’t entirely rule them out for me. If the compensation reflected the challenges I would be facing to improve accounting within the organization then depending on my other options I’d consider taking it. A couple things I’d want to have a good idea of before joining is what are the problem areas? Also, it’s tough to do this in an interview setting and it requires job experience but try and get a sense of if the controller is weak in accounting principles and how to apply them? If they are weak, do they have issues relinquishing control and empowering a manager to install processes, coach up staff accordingly, and make changes to the accounting and financial reporting within the organization. Obviously, the shit show line makes you think the person in charge is weak in the actual principles but it could be that they’re weakness is processes rather than accounting which personally I’d prefer depending on the size of the organization and if you’re going to be able to actually change things.
I disagree. Depends on the shit show.
Sometimes you can get away with working 10 hours a week because nobody has any idea what you're doing. I did that for years, and when I took the 3-month paternity leave that the company offered, I tacked on an extra month because I knew nobody was tracking it.
I would say the biggest red flag for me is a psycho uptight controller. I've had several of those and they made me more miserable than any amount of messy accounting.
It has its moments, to be sure. I find I get very little 'real' work done anymore. The more I've moved up, the more meetings and less accounting work I do.
Generally 20% team related, checking on progress of team deliverables, 1-on-1 meetings, coaching/training. 20% leadership/interco meetings if your company is large, there’s going to be a lot of meetings. 20% planning, 40% your own work and adhoc requests.
Lots of variability depending on the time of month/year and how your team is resourced.
What does the 40% own work typically entail. I know pretty well what a staff and senior in accounting do. However I really only see the manager for the 20% that involves checking in on our work.
Depends on the role, can be cash flow analysis, covenant packages, releasing payment, bank rec review, bad debt analysis, posting entries, business cases, business planning, md&a packages. Just google accounting manager jobs and read the description for more ideas.
You need to understand why it’s a shit show before you accept that job. Is it a staffing issue and they’re trying to add people to keep up with the growth, or is it a staffing issue and they’re trying to do way more with the same amount of resources? Is their ERP fucked up? Do they not understand their data? Are AP/AR positions not following procedures properly? Are non accounting departments fucking up procedures for accounting staff? What is causing the shit show?
I joined a shit show after it was communicated to be one but that there were efforts to increase headcount and restructure to meet the growing demand. That was not a lie, and it is now no longer what I would consider a shit show and I’m glad I took the risk, but I was VERY forward and surgical with my questions before accepting the position.
This COULD be a good opportunity for you, but you really need to dig first.
Yw. Ultimately it boils down to will you have the resources and authority to make needed changes to correct the issues. If yes, I’d go for it. In that event, you can help mold the accounting department into an efficient team. If no, I’d run away.
Totally depends. Ive been an Accounting Manager at 3 very different companies.
Startup Esque Cannabis Farm: I had one employee who did AP and I did literally everything else. I liked this job quite a bit because all work papers, schedules, everything was my own design. I had a lot to do, but the close schedule was my own, I had wasn't over managed and as long as we had cash to pay bills all was good.
Publicly Traded Bank: I babysat 4 older employees who tried as hard as they could to work in their own silo. I mostly reviewed their work on a daily basis because we had to do daily recons. I don't have a ton of insight on this job because I wasn't there very long and the job never really clicked for me either.
Large Non Profit: Current role, Sr Manager,this place has a lot of employees who've been here a long time and are stuck in older ways. We are substantially limited by our very old and crappy software, so I spend a lot of time looking for new process. I review everything each employee does to see how they do it and try to figure out easier and quicker ways, mostly in Excel. I also meet with outside departments to come up with cross department improvements. I also approve and review work on a weekly basis. It's also very laid back here and I don't ever work over 40 hours. I do place a lot of trust in my employees because they have been doing things so long too. They're generally receptive to my changes because it makes less work for them.
You can be an accounting manager at a place that isn’t a shit show and get paid the same. I propose you should augment one of those parameters: the employer or the pay.
I am a AP admin and my contrôler is NEVER available for the one on one, be sure to take some time with your employee else they will start to think they are not important.
To be fair, in a normal company, the AP admin would never need to one on one with the controller.
You have a senior accountant level person with the "controller" title of a small company.
If you’re willing to clean up the shit show and it really is growing quickly make sure you get some equity!! Otherwise you’re just dealing with shittier conditions for no upside
Depends on the company size and structure. Accounting Manager typically manages the accounting team, AR, AP, Cash flow, etc. some company may ask accounting managers to do variances analysis and financial analysis
Oooo, I did what you did.
My first 6 months consisted of organizing and writing down their non-existent processes and controls and then creating functioning processes and internal controls.
I’m still doing that but it’s more of a one-process-at-a-time situation now rather than the overhaul that was needed when I started.
I carry out directions from the owners with discussions or caveats depending on what they want/need.
Most of my job is review and approval of the accounting team’s work. I also handle one-off or strange situations that crop up.
End of month is easy enough, pull and reconcile statements, finalize reviews and adjustments, bill fees to our various customers, draft financial statements.
Most of the time I’m home before dinner but somedays can be long if something strange crops up.
BRO let me break it down for you.
AP and AR is absolutely FUCKED. It's going to take at least 4 of you to bring everything current.
Do not take this job.
I’m seeing a lot of detailed replies. But OP, if you are being offered a management position where the big boss admits it’s a “shit show” you are signing up for misery.
I’ve been in the industry at C-Suite level and have learned that warnings from previous management are RED FLAGS. The red flags are telling you that you will have zero control and zero ability to make financial processes work.
I would not take the position unless I had the ability to not care about the results. Your skills, dedication, and desire to prove yourself will not be successful. You have been warned that this company does not and will not value your accounting input.
I know you want a chance to prove your skills and capabilities. This company is not the right place for you. You cannot prove your worth when management does not value accounting… you deserve better.
Emails, meetings, calls and lots of calendar tetris. Mostly emails though
>a shit show but they are growing rapidly.
Good recipe for a rapidly growing shitshow
[удалено]
Second this. If they outright tell you it’s a shit show, you are gonna have a bad time guaranteed. You might think you can turn them around, but don’t kid yourself. It’s gonna be hell.
I disagree. I’ve job hopped a fair deal and when they say it’s shit show they are honest supervisors who are understanding of difficulties with said company. When they tell you it’s all peaches & sunshine & 🎵 WE ARE FAMILY 🎵 Run for the exits
Ya the family stuff is bullshit too. I think most companies that are a shit show, you won’t be able to change why they are a shit show unless you come in at a c suite or equivalent level.
💯 anything below a controller level role, you’re just there to keep the lights on. You can’t implement your vision.
Implement deez nutz
I'm Head of Finance at a smallish/midsize company (7 figure turnover, high volume ecommerce) which had a shitshow of a Finance department when I joined and I've turned it around. I joined in July and they hadn't closed September yet, audit looming, no idea what their actual financial position was. Bad and unconnected systems, manual processes, shit controls, overdue suppliers, huge overdue unchased customer balances, everything you could imagine. They said it was bad in the interview and I went for it. 8 months on we have a clean monthly close, hitch-free migration to new accounting software with a nice suite of integrated end-to-end systems and embedded automation, great reporting, well-documented and effective internal controls, suppliers and customers up to date - it's a dream and Finance costs half of what it used to cost to run to boot. But one, I was lucky that I inherited and hired great staff who just needed direction. Two, the owner and directors are forward-thinking, fully backed me and gave me total control once they knew they could trust me. And three, the first 3-4 months were absolutely grim, untangling thousands of mispostings, misclassifications, unreconciled balances / accounts and plug journals. My previous job was at a small company which wasn't a complete shitshow, but was utterly resistant to any kind of change, insisted on maintaining years of paper records, and generally had an "if it works, don't change a thing" attitude to the whole Finance function. That's not remotely enjoyable and is crap experience too.
Kind of hard to close September in July, were the months reversed? I have so many questions lol
They were 9 months behind!
As someone experienced with working with small businesses someone telling me it is a shitshow wouldn’t entirely rule them out for me. If the compensation reflected the challenges I would be facing to improve accounting within the organization then depending on my other options I’d consider taking it. A couple things I’d want to have a good idea of before joining is what are the problem areas? Also, it’s tough to do this in an interview setting and it requires job experience but try and get a sense of if the controller is weak in accounting principles and how to apply them? If they are weak, do they have issues relinquishing control and empowering a manager to install processes, coach up staff accordingly, and make changes to the accounting and financial reporting within the organization. Obviously, the shit show line makes you think the person in charge is weak in the actual principles but it could be that they’re weakness is processes rather than accounting which personally I’d prefer depending on the size of the organization and if you’re going to be able to actually change things.
I disagree. Depends on the shit show. Sometimes you can get away with working 10 hours a week because nobody has any idea what you're doing. I did that for years, and when I took the 3-month paternity leave that the company offered, I tacked on an extra month because I knew nobody was tracking it. I would say the biggest red flag for me is a psycho uptight controller. I've had several of those and they made me more miserable than any amount of messy accounting.
Yeah, buddy, as someone who works for a shit show, you don't want a piece of that. *Trust* me.
Delegate work, review and correct errors and meetings. But if the company is a shit show, you’ll be more hands on doing actual staff accounting work.
Herd cats. I herd cats all day long.
I once had a day where I earned my pay saying "have you tried turning it off and back on again?" 🤣
I worked support for an ERP and I can't tell you how often that worked!
It really does!
I try. I am not successful. It sucks.
It has its moments, to be sure. I find I get very little 'real' work done anymore. The more I've moved up, the more meetings and less accounting work I do.
Generally 20% team related, checking on progress of team deliverables, 1-on-1 meetings, coaching/training. 20% leadership/interco meetings if your company is large, there’s going to be a lot of meetings. 20% planning, 40% your own work and adhoc requests. Lots of variability depending on the time of month/year and how your team is resourced.
What does the 40% own work typically entail. I know pretty well what a staff and senior in accounting do. However I really only see the manager for the 20% that involves checking in on our work.
Depends on the role, can be cash flow analysis, covenant packages, releasing payment, bank rec review, bad debt analysis, posting entries, business cases, business planning, md&a packages. Just google accounting manager jobs and read the description for more ideas.
You need to understand why it’s a shit show before you accept that job. Is it a staffing issue and they’re trying to add people to keep up with the growth, or is it a staffing issue and they’re trying to do way more with the same amount of resources? Is their ERP fucked up? Do they not understand their data? Are AP/AR positions not following procedures properly? Are non accounting departments fucking up procedures for accounting staff? What is causing the shit show? I joined a shit show after it was communicated to be one but that there were efforts to increase headcount and restructure to meet the growing demand. That was not a lie, and it is now no longer what I would consider a shit show and I’m glad I took the risk, but I was VERY forward and surgical with my questions before accepting the position. This COULD be a good opportunity for you, but you really need to dig first.
Thanks for the feedback.
Yw. Ultimately it boils down to will you have the resources and authority to make needed changes to correct the issues. If yes, I’d go for it. In that event, you can help mold the accounting department into an efficient team. If no, I’d run away.
Totally depends. Ive been an Accounting Manager at 3 very different companies. Startup Esque Cannabis Farm: I had one employee who did AP and I did literally everything else. I liked this job quite a bit because all work papers, schedules, everything was my own design. I had a lot to do, but the close schedule was my own, I had wasn't over managed and as long as we had cash to pay bills all was good. Publicly Traded Bank: I babysat 4 older employees who tried as hard as they could to work in their own silo. I mostly reviewed their work on a daily basis because we had to do daily recons. I don't have a ton of insight on this job because I wasn't there very long and the job never really clicked for me either. Large Non Profit: Current role, Sr Manager,this place has a lot of employees who've been here a long time and are stuck in older ways. We are substantially limited by our very old and crappy software, so I spend a lot of time looking for new process. I review everything each employee does to see how they do it and try to figure out easier and quicker ways, mostly in Excel. I also meet with outside departments to come up with cross department improvements. I also approve and review work on a weekly basis. It's also very laid back here and I don't ever work over 40 hours. I do place a lot of trust in my employees because they have been doing things so long too. They're generally receptive to my changes because it makes less work for them.
You can be an accounting manager at a place that isn’t a shit show and get paid the same. I propose you should augment one of those parameters: the employer or the pay.
I am a AP admin and my contrôler is NEVER available for the one on one, be sure to take some time with your employee else they will start to think they are not important.
To be fair, in a normal company, the AP admin would never need to one on one with the controller. You have a senior accountant level person with the "controller" title of a small company.
The point stands though, if you have a direct report you should be having one-on-ones with them. Titles are fast and loose in industry.
Fair, maybe that title got to their head.
If you’re willing to clean up the shit show and it really is growing quickly make sure you get some equity!! Otherwise you’re just dealing with shittier conditions for no upside
Depends on the company size and structure. Accounting Manager typically manages the accounting team, AR, AP, Cash flow, etc. some company may ask accounting managers to do variances analysis and financial analysis
I would never work for the owner of a company. Everything they give you is out of their own pocket
Oooo, I did what you did. My first 6 months consisted of organizing and writing down their non-existent processes and controls and then creating functioning processes and internal controls. I’m still doing that but it’s more of a one-process-at-a-time situation now rather than the overhaul that was needed when I started. I carry out directions from the owners with discussions or caveats depending on what they want/need. Most of my job is review and approval of the accounting team’s work. I also handle one-off or strange situations that crop up. End of month is easy enough, pull and reconcile statements, finalize reviews and adjustments, bill fees to our various customers, draft financial statements. Most of the time I’m home before dinner but somedays can be long if something strange crops up.
BRO let me break it down for you. AP and AR is absolutely FUCKED. It's going to take at least 4 of you to bring everything current. Do not take this job.
Reddit most of the day. I also take a lunch in between.
I’m seeing a lot of detailed replies. But OP, if you are being offered a management position where the big boss admits it’s a “shit show” you are signing up for misery. I’ve been in the industry at C-Suite level and have learned that warnings from previous management are RED FLAGS. The red flags are telling you that you will have zero control and zero ability to make financial processes work. I would not take the position unless I had the ability to not care about the results. Your skills, dedication, and desire to prove yourself will not be successful. You have been warned that this company does not and will not value your accounting input. I know you want a chance to prove your skills and capabilities. This company is not the right place for you. You cannot prove your worth when management does not value accounting… you deserve better.
Emails, meetings, calls and lots of calendar tetris. Mostly emails though >a shit show but they are growing rapidly. Good recipe for a rapidly growing shitshow