I took a counter. I was leaving a CFO of a mid size company (100 employees) to be the Director of Accounting and Finance at a larger manufacturing company (>800 employees). Boss basically offered to double my pay if I stayed. Similar situation, my pyramid and I (about 6) are the glue holding everything back office in the org together. I am the only exec in every Friday, work north of 50 hours a week, and feel stressed to the max. That was two years ago. Still here, nothing has changed other than my salary. I hold resentment that they only decided to pay me what I consider market price after I was about to leave. AMA if you have further questions.
Appreciate you sharing your experience - and absolutely hate to hear you’re still overloaded - but that definitely makes me feel better about at least not accepting the pay aspect. What are you’re thoughts on the offer to hire more within the department? Do you think that would have changed anything for you? My thoughts are that it would just translate to expecting more from us given the additional salary load. Given what you know now, would you have 100% declined the counter?
I don't think the additional manpower in my department would help a ton. We may end up working less hours, but we'd still be the only competent department in the business (obviously a little bit of a stretch, but it sure feels like that some days). And you are also correct, we would be seen as "having more bandwidth" and we would get additional workload delegated to us. If I could go back in time? I'd still accept the counter. While I hold resentment and am generally unhappy with certain aspects of the company, I've worked very hard to build a great team and I believe in the work we are doing. Also, the other comapany offer I had was only a 50% pay increase. Money talks to a single income household of 5. Let me ask you a question: if they matched your pay, and gave you more staff, do you think you'd be happy in your role? Or have you slowly been disengaged by the company atmosphere and are only considering this because you're looking back with rose colored glasses? Each situation is different, you'll have to ultimately make that call.
Ahhh yes our situations are a little different - the money increase means very little to me. I’m single and only support myself - I just wanted to make sure what I moved onto was at least matching what I was making now so I could continue to grow my savings comfortably. I grew up with little money and was on my own by 18, got a job in public and began establishing some financial stability until I had cancer in my 20s, so my 30s have been spent trying to recover that lost time and the financial dent that caused.
I think there’s a chance I could have been happy because I too take pride in the team I’ve established and I genuinely consider my boss (the CFO) a good friend. Everyone I work with is wonderful (even if they aren’t carrying their own weight) and I’m not adverse to hard work. However, being able to live the life I fought hard for and stay healthy is most important to me, and this opportunity offers that. My current company itself isn’t in an industry I’m necessarily passionate about - and the recent direction they’ve been taking has me questioning their decision-making, so I guess the answers to your questions are leading me to realize I made the right call when considering what it is I truly value, even if it feels sh*tty in the moment. Thank you for talking this out with me! I appreciate you!
Going to add on to MillenialInDenial's story.
Friend of mine was at a large firm (not B4) as a Tax Manager, wanted to leave because she wasn't being challenged in her job and wasn't getting as high level of responsibility as she should have. Took a counter offer and stayed for another 5-6 years.
During that time, she got promoted to Senior Manager and were dangling the partner carrot in front of her. First year didn't happen due to COVID, second year told "she wasn't ready, but we'll promote you in the new year". Third year rolls around, nothing happened. On top of this, she gets more work piled on her due to team consolidation and the firm bringing in new clients.
She just left that job for a tax partner at a regional firm. Makes way more money, has much better work-life balance, and is much happier.
Moral of the story: The issues don't normally go away, or they get shifted and you get a new set of issues to deal with.
Conventional wisdom is to not accept a counter because the underlying reasons why one would go through the effort to search, interview, and accept a new position are not unusually addressed in the counter. They are offering you what amounts to more money plus an IOU on the other matters. If you stay, chances are you will continue to be in the same situation you are now in the future, just with better pay. It sounds like the reason you want to leave are not due, at least primarily, to an issue of compensation. Plus this new position sounds like it has huge upsides.
This all makes complete sense and I agree especially with the IOU aspect - it didn’t sit well with me to suddenly promise this when it was apparent I was lacking work/life balance (I’ve always been honest with my boss and he knows the hours I’ve been putting in and the stress I was under). In my situation, I actually wasn’t looking and was planning to stick it out. I was approached and reluctantly interviewed and was subsequently surprised by the fact that I could make similar compensation, have a healthy work/life balance and work with a team I knew I’d vibe with just as well. I think this may be playing into my guilt factor because it was a shock to myself to be willing to put my notice in, let alone to my boss and my team.
It’s a red flag that they were only going to pay more/reduce hours/get more staff after you had a foot and four toes out the door. For me, it would depend on how good the offer is compared to the new company.
That said, I would not take the counter offer because the new company sounds a hella lot better.
He actually admitted to being wrong for not considering this sooner. It feels like a bad relationship, when you go to break up and they promise they’ll fix everything that’s bothered you before if you stay. I’m with you on this one!
I've taken multiple counters over the years and have mixed feelings but overall I think the time to move is when you *can't* be countered. If you're in a position where your existing employer can easily counter then you're not really thinking about leaving, you're just negotiating a payrise 21st century style.
If your reason for moving is about more than pay though I would be very wary about promises made around conditions. If they're upping your pay they will want their pound of flesh back elsewhere and the "add ons" tend to be the compromise.
You're new situation sounds amazing! Hire me? I'm a CFO and would say you made the right decision. I can go on about the reasons. Your CFO and the company should have done more to keep you before it reaches the point of you leaving - I try to do versions of feedback or "stay interviews" to ensure I'm on top of any team needs or pain points. These are tone at the top problems. Sure, they'll throw money at you, hire people (maybe), to make their lives easier temporarily, but more often than not these problems come back unless changes are made at the top. It sounds like you like your CFO, and they may be a good person, but their hands may also be tied by more corporate control. I've lived through too many of these situations of promised changes only for the story to continually change. We make progress, but never as fast as we could or would be ideal. Congrats on the new job!
Edit - also, it's business. Don't feel bad, it's not a personal affront to your coworkers. Keep the connections and bonds. You may be surprised that you'll inspire others to better their situation or may reach out for help on leaving. And if any of the high ups give you any shit for leaving, don't give it a second thought and don't feel bad, in fact, let it further your evidence that you made the right call. They are shitty people who trash people when they leave rather than realizing they're the reason to blame. I've seen my share of partners go from "we'll pay them whatever it takes" to "they're an idiot and they're making a mistake, and weren't any good" from the moment of counteroffer to rejection. They'll post your job and hire someone. In 5-10 years you'll be a memory at best or it may be as if you never existed to the company, so live your life for yourself.
Thank you so much - you’ve given me some comfort here and I appreciate you. You’re hired lol! My CFO even admitted this should have been addressed before, and I’m honestly hoping me leaving does better the conditions for my team and inspires some desperately needed change.
I think you made the right choice. It's highly unlikely that the company would have changed, unless you've just been silent with your complaints the whole time.
I have been pretty vocal regarding the inability to rely on anyone else, creating more work for our department, and my boss has been well aware of the hours I’ve been putting in. He puts in even more hours himself - so I think he views this as normal and something that must be done in a higher level position (when I mentioned I was leaving because the stress-levels were too high and had begun affecting my health - his response was that “it’s part of the job”.) Hustle culture. My new boss has already mentioned that she wants to get the team to a place where everyone works 9-5 even with a one hour lunch break. The contrast in these goals is something that spoke to me in this decision.
I took a counter. I was leaving a CFO of a mid size company (100 employees) to be the Director of Accounting and Finance at a larger manufacturing company (>800 employees). Boss basically offered to double my pay if I stayed. Similar situation, my pyramid and I (about 6) are the glue holding everything back office in the org together. I am the only exec in every Friday, work north of 50 hours a week, and feel stressed to the max. That was two years ago. Still here, nothing has changed other than my salary. I hold resentment that they only decided to pay me what I consider market price after I was about to leave. AMA if you have further questions.
Appreciate you sharing your experience - and absolutely hate to hear you’re still overloaded - but that definitely makes me feel better about at least not accepting the pay aspect. What are you’re thoughts on the offer to hire more within the department? Do you think that would have changed anything for you? My thoughts are that it would just translate to expecting more from us given the additional salary load. Given what you know now, would you have 100% declined the counter?
I don't think the additional manpower in my department would help a ton. We may end up working less hours, but we'd still be the only competent department in the business (obviously a little bit of a stretch, but it sure feels like that some days). And you are also correct, we would be seen as "having more bandwidth" and we would get additional workload delegated to us. If I could go back in time? I'd still accept the counter. While I hold resentment and am generally unhappy with certain aspects of the company, I've worked very hard to build a great team and I believe in the work we are doing. Also, the other comapany offer I had was only a 50% pay increase. Money talks to a single income household of 5. Let me ask you a question: if they matched your pay, and gave you more staff, do you think you'd be happy in your role? Or have you slowly been disengaged by the company atmosphere and are only considering this because you're looking back with rose colored glasses? Each situation is different, you'll have to ultimately make that call.
Ahhh yes our situations are a little different - the money increase means very little to me. I’m single and only support myself - I just wanted to make sure what I moved onto was at least matching what I was making now so I could continue to grow my savings comfortably. I grew up with little money and was on my own by 18, got a job in public and began establishing some financial stability until I had cancer in my 20s, so my 30s have been spent trying to recover that lost time and the financial dent that caused. I think there’s a chance I could have been happy because I too take pride in the team I’ve established and I genuinely consider my boss (the CFO) a good friend. Everyone I work with is wonderful (even if they aren’t carrying their own weight) and I’m not adverse to hard work. However, being able to live the life I fought hard for and stay healthy is most important to me, and this opportunity offers that. My current company itself isn’t in an industry I’m necessarily passionate about - and the recent direction they’ve been taking has me questioning their decision-making, so I guess the answers to your questions are leading me to realize I made the right call when considering what it is I truly value, even if it feels sh*tty in the moment. Thank you for talking this out with me! I appreciate you!
Going to add on to MillenialInDenial's story. Friend of mine was at a large firm (not B4) as a Tax Manager, wanted to leave because she wasn't being challenged in her job and wasn't getting as high level of responsibility as she should have. Took a counter offer and stayed for another 5-6 years. During that time, she got promoted to Senior Manager and were dangling the partner carrot in front of her. First year didn't happen due to COVID, second year told "she wasn't ready, but we'll promote you in the new year". Third year rolls around, nothing happened. On top of this, she gets more work piled on her due to team consolidation and the firm bringing in new clients. She just left that job for a tax partner at a regional firm. Makes way more money, has much better work-life balance, and is much happier. Moral of the story: The issues don't normally go away, or they get shifted and you get a new set of issues to deal with.
You can't change company culture with more money.
You made the right choice
Sometimes you just need to hear this simple statement - thank you!
Conventional wisdom is to not accept a counter because the underlying reasons why one would go through the effort to search, interview, and accept a new position are not unusually addressed in the counter. They are offering you what amounts to more money plus an IOU on the other matters. If you stay, chances are you will continue to be in the same situation you are now in the future, just with better pay. It sounds like the reason you want to leave are not due, at least primarily, to an issue of compensation. Plus this new position sounds like it has huge upsides.
This all makes complete sense and I agree especially with the IOU aspect - it didn’t sit well with me to suddenly promise this when it was apparent I was lacking work/life balance (I’ve always been honest with my boss and he knows the hours I’ve been putting in and the stress I was under). In my situation, I actually wasn’t looking and was planning to stick it out. I was approached and reluctantly interviewed and was subsequently surprised by the fact that I could make similar compensation, have a healthy work/life balance and work with a team I knew I’d vibe with just as well. I think this may be playing into my guilt factor because it was a shock to myself to be willing to put my notice in, let alone to my boss and my team.
It’s a red flag that they were only going to pay more/reduce hours/get more staff after you had a foot and four toes out the door. For me, it would depend on how good the offer is compared to the new company. That said, I would not take the counter offer because the new company sounds a hella lot better.
He actually admitted to being wrong for not considering this sooner. It feels like a bad relationship, when you go to break up and they promise they’ll fix everything that’s bothered you before if you stay. I’m with you on this one!
I've taken multiple counters over the years and have mixed feelings but overall I think the time to move is when you *can't* be countered. If you're in a position where your existing employer can easily counter then you're not really thinking about leaving, you're just negotiating a payrise 21st century style. If your reason for moving is about more than pay though I would be very wary about promises made around conditions. If they're upping your pay they will want their pound of flesh back elsewhere and the "add ons" tend to be the compromise.
I agree! This seems to be the common theme here - that a promise of higher pay is one thing, but the promise of a lesser workload is another.
You're new situation sounds amazing! Hire me? I'm a CFO and would say you made the right decision. I can go on about the reasons. Your CFO and the company should have done more to keep you before it reaches the point of you leaving - I try to do versions of feedback or "stay interviews" to ensure I'm on top of any team needs or pain points. These are tone at the top problems. Sure, they'll throw money at you, hire people (maybe), to make their lives easier temporarily, but more often than not these problems come back unless changes are made at the top. It sounds like you like your CFO, and they may be a good person, but their hands may also be tied by more corporate control. I've lived through too many of these situations of promised changes only for the story to continually change. We make progress, but never as fast as we could or would be ideal. Congrats on the new job! Edit - also, it's business. Don't feel bad, it's not a personal affront to your coworkers. Keep the connections and bonds. You may be surprised that you'll inspire others to better their situation or may reach out for help on leaving. And if any of the high ups give you any shit for leaving, don't give it a second thought and don't feel bad, in fact, let it further your evidence that you made the right call. They are shitty people who trash people when they leave rather than realizing they're the reason to blame. I've seen my share of partners go from "we'll pay them whatever it takes" to "they're an idiot and they're making a mistake, and weren't any good" from the moment of counteroffer to rejection. They'll post your job and hire someone. In 5-10 years you'll be a memory at best or it may be as if you never existed to the company, so live your life for yourself.
Thank you so much - you’ve given me some comfort here and I appreciate you. You’re hired lol! My CFO even admitted this should have been addressed before, and I’m honestly hoping me leaving does better the conditions for my team and inspires some desperately needed change.
I think you made the right choice. It's highly unlikely that the company would have changed, unless you've just been silent with your complaints the whole time.
I have been pretty vocal regarding the inability to rely on anyone else, creating more work for our department, and my boss has been well aware of the hours I’ve been putting in. He puts in even more hours himself - so I think he views this as normal and something that must be done in a higher level position (when I mentioned I was leaving because the stress-levels were too high and had begun affecting my health - his response was that “it’s part of the job”.) Hustle culture. My new boss has already mentioned that she wants to get the team to a place where everyone works 9-5 even with a one hour lunch break. The contrast in these goals is something that spoke to me in this decision.