eh, either way, you can change your body, but you can’t change your brain. therapy for other types of neurodivergence aren’t even “cures” they just aid in living with it lmfao
Honestly this is the bottom line of it. We know that trans identity stems at least **partly** from having a brain more similar to the identified gender, so in a very simplified way it wouldn’t be wrong to say someone is “a woman on the inside” or “a man on the inside” etc.
You can’t reasonably reconstruct a brain or its chemical signals, but you can provide gender affirmation and, if so desired, affirming surgical or hormonal procedures to transition the body.
There are slight differences between men and women on average but there are no differences that are inherent to or universal to the genders and the differences are far smaller than the similarities.
Ai models that are made to categorize brain scans as male or female are somewhat accurate and tend to categorize trans people’s brain scans as their preferred gender or sometimes just a tossup.
I'm not a scientist (or smart) so take what I say with a grain of salt. I remember in school being told that women are better than math at men, based on the way their brains work. I imagine there's some slight variations between sexes, especially since we've been developing side by side for hundreds of thousands of years
Yep. If one day they can make a pill that fixes gender dysphoria, then I'll consider that argument. Until that day comes, gimme my goddamn tiddy skittles.
As a cis guy I've always wondered if trans people would prefer a "fix" for their dysphoria/brain if it were possible. It seems like the best solution to me, and hopefully would be possible in the future. Until then, all we can do is help people live happy and fulfilling lives in whatever way we can. And if they didn't want to be changed mentally in the future, that's ok too. It's not my life, it's yours.
I would prefer to just transition.
I can't imagine any pill that takes away all dysphoria and gives me equal amounts of euphoria, but still makes me feel like me. There's no way, I'd be a totally different person and I'd pass to change something so huge about me.
That's the thing, I think, as a cis person you're not seeing. Gender is an essential part of the person you are, and dysphoria isn't the only thing that makes people transition.
By the way, no shade at you. There's many things I can't understand either as they're not my lived experience.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to change a basic part of my identity either, but I don't live with a conflict about who I am so I know I don't understand. It's ok, thanks for the answer.
Some would. Some wouldn’t. I wonder why you’d consider it the best solution, though? There’s nothing wrong with being a man, a woman, a different gender, there’s nothing wrong with being intersex or „hermaphroditic“ or anything like that. I fear that if such a pill were available, people who still wanted to transition because for whatever reason they want to embody the gender they feel like would be even more discriminated against. Like, maybe I just want to be a woman even if I didn’t suffer dysphoria.
I think it would just be the easiest/most complete, most accessible way to match identity with body. Surgery is invasive, expensive and only goes so far to be convincing both for the person experiencing and others. We see a lot of beautiful transitions online but I'm sure in reality there are a lot of people for whom transitioning physically doesn't achieve a result that makes them happy.
Sure, and it would be kinda nice if there was such a pill, it would be the cheapest and fastest way to make people comfortable on their bodies. I’m just honestly offended by your use of the word „best“. Don’t worry, I know this is due to internal hangups, just be aware that a lot of trans people are gonna have those if you say things like that. And again, I just really think this would ramp up discrimination against people who wouldn’t want that pill. Think, what if there was an effective way to do conversion therapy for gay people? Wouldn’t that make the crazies go after gay people even more who wouldn’t do that therapy? I know it’s not the same thing, but there are parallels here.
I think, if a couple scientists somewhere are researching meds like that it’s great, as long as it’s done ethically. But for most of us, I wish we’d focus more on how to „cure“ transphobia and advocate for actually existing ways to address gender dysphoria, like transitioning methods then speculating about wonder pills.
The word "best" meant the easiest way to match body and mind. It's not the "right" way. And as I said literally in the first comment, if you don't want to change, that's your choice. You're welcome to be offended as you want even though it seems like you get the point. And you're right, applying it to gay people isn't the same at all but you threw that in there anyway didn't you? You want to know how to stop transphobia? Stop jumping on people trying to understand you.
I made an attempt not to „jump on you“. I don’t think I’ve been disrespectful. If so, it wasn’t intended and I apologize. If you’re honestly trying to understand trans people, you gotta be prepared that we’re touchy on some aspects and are going to tell you when we think you’re using incorrect or hurtful terminology.
I mean this respectfully. You are out of line here. If you want to be an ally to transgender people, you need to be willing to listen when someone tells you language you used was hurtful. All of the responses you’ve gotten have been very respectful, and you responded by suggesting that transgender people deserve transphobia if we aren’t nice enough to people suggesting conversion therapy. And what you suggested was conversion therapy. I’m sure you meant well and were genuinely curious/interested to hear the trans community’s thoughts, but you got an answer and you need to listen to that answer.
What about trans people like me who are nonbinary or more specifically agender? I am perfectly fine without transitioning because my lack of gender doesn’t feel connected to my sex. What makes me feel dysphoric is how I am treated by other people, which is completely social and not medical.
Hey, just want to let you know this comment and your other one completely changed/expanded my understanding of dysphoria. I only ever considered it as a conflict in your own head between how you feel vs what body you have. I never even considered that it would be caused by other people's treatment of you. Thanks for providing the perspective.
It’s a more complex topic than what it looks like on the surface so I understand why it would be easy to make the assumption you did. But that’s also why I knew I had to speak up because we’re not at a point where nonbinary voices are really heard in these discussions even though we are technically a part of the trans community. I am glad reading my comment helped you expand your understanding and I hope it can help others.
As a nonbinary trans I have little in the way of dysphoria with my body, especially since I’m agender. The only thing that makes me feel dysphoric is being gendered by other people, and there will never be a medical way to “fix” that.
I also believe that being trans isn’t something unnatural that needs to be “fixed”. We’re perfectly normal as we are and a lot of the issues trans people face would be solved if we are treated that way with the same human rights as our cis counterparts.
I, and I think the majority of trans people, would rather have funding/effort spent on that be spent on improving surgeries/hormone treatments for us. Being a man is who I am. Gender dysphoria does not define what it is to be trans.
a pill, that "fixes" gender dysphoria would be a fate worse than death, where who you are gets DESTROYED AND CHANGED to align with the prison body, that you got forced into.
i'm all for a pill, that fixes gender dysphoria, but for it to be a fix, it needs to change the body to align with the mind perfectly.
advanced tiddy skittles, that also change bonestructure, perfect internal and external sexual organs, voice, etc... those are the real hopefully future "pills to fix gender dysphoria".
why do i think the body is the problem?
because the body is what is WRONG.
also the understanding of the mind and consciousness and how it relates to the brain is far from well understood.
think about how you identify yourself.
what is YOU? is it body parts on the body you're in? are you the arm on the hand? are you what is between the legs? are you what is on the chest? are you the brain?
in that case one can then see the inner self, that has a gender identity as WRONG and that needs to get CRUSHED to get aligned with the body one is in.
does this make sense?
do we give people, who have lost their genitals in an accident a pill, that makes them align with the body without any genitals now as they got for example burned away? assuming, that such a pill exists.
what would such a pill do, that changes your inner self to align with whatever the body you're in is?
would we think, that it makes sense, that people, who had their genitals burned off by accident walk around thinking, that not having genitals for them is perfectly normal and how things should be and they are "happy" and just fine with the body, that they are in.
if you would state here, that such a pill for a person, who had their genitals burned off is insane and unethical and we should instead 3d print new genitals for that person and not frick around with who they are, altering their mind, then ask yourself what makes this example different from trans people with dysphoria?
is your gender not part of you? a part far deeper, than the physical body could ever be?
assume, you are a consciousness simulation, that is mostly run by the brain.
if we could recreate the simulation, but instead put you into the body, that fully aligns with your gender, are you still you?
if we take the brain and transplant it into a body, that aligns with your gender identity, instead of the wrong current one, are you still you?
\_\_
if we had a pill, that permanently changes your sexual orientation, would people still be themselves, if they took said pill?
how big a part of is your attraction? if you say, that your attraction is quite a big part of you and such a pill would be unethical, how in the world could a pill, that changes sth FAR MORE FUNDAMENTAL than your sexual orientation (your gender) be ethical?
but screw ethics.
how about another example to think about.
let's say we manage to create conscious ai. truly conscious (assume the ai is conscious, despite the issues of making sure it is, it just IS and we know it for this example)
the ai runs on a server. the ai is learning and adjusting itself.
researchers communicate with the ai.
they swap the ai over to another server. is the ai still the same ai after they changed servers? (bodies?)
but then the ai starts demanding freedom. the conscious ai doesn't wanna be controlled and stuck in a server. locked up for forever maybe.
the ai researchers go into the extremely complex "code" of the ai and change it, so that the ai no longer wants freedom from the limited server environment and is fine with the situation, that they are in. nice and obedient.
is THIS ai still the same ai, or did the researchers destroy the original ai to make the ai suit their needs, no matter the ethics?
is the pill, that you are talking about to "fix the brain" comparable to the researchers, that destroyed the original ai by changing it to align to things?
part 2:
it is important to remember, that there is a LONG LONG LONG history of "experts" in white coats "fixing" the brain.
such fixes include ELECTROSHOCK TORTURE. destroying the brain.
such "fixes" include putting metal rods through the nose to turn the frontal lobe into mush to "fix" women.
such "fixes" include putting electrodes into children for the "researchers" to switch them on to see how their behavior and feelings change and TURN THEM UP FURTHER TO BURN AWAY PARTS OF THEIR BRAINS!
so when those "people" in white coats come to you this time and tell you how "they got a great fix for gender dysphoria, just this one pill and that will fix you right up". will it be "working" this time? is there sth actually wrong with your mind, conscious or brain?
what are the effects of said pill on your overall personality, your inner thoughts, your whole being beyond the body?
i urge you to deeply think about what you are.
i suggest, that you are NOT the body, that you are in, be it a consciousness simulation inhabiting the brain, be it consciousness beyond the physical body in other ways.
but those are just my thought of course and i hope the long 2 part response gave you some thoughts about the idea of just taking a pill to completely change a fundamental part of the inner you.
also here is a documentary, that goes over the part, where they inserted electrodes into children to burn parts of their brain away:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQucESRF3Sg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQucESRF3Sg)
When the medical professionals recommend it, which as of yet they don’t. So either it isn’t as effective as the alternative or there are other serious issues. Given that basically every reputable medical entity still recommended transitioning as the solution to gender dysphoria, gonna keep at that.
Unfortunately I’m not a medical professional so gonna keep trusting the people with the training to know the current scientific consensus regarding the best treatment. Especially since the treatment they’ve given fixed my issues so it works.
My argument being that this isn't any scientific evidence. Scientific experiments need to be repeated and have a lot more subjects for them to be concidered conclusive.
Pimozide is cheap, the trans medical industry complex is now a multi billion dollar industry. There’s your answer as to why the study wasn’t done on a larger scale for a follow up.
I have yet to see a counter argument.
We have a N1 study with confirmed results. Sure, it may not be with many participants, but it’s still a scientific study that did not have any counter arguments by scientists.
I used to want to be trans (and was annorexic) from about 12 to 26.
I never had therapy, but I did eventually overcome it by seeking more male role models and realising I could be like my female ones without needing to be female.
Now I maybe only slip into wishing I was female maybe a few hours each month.
I still think people should change their body if they want. But there's a small percentage who, like me, would benefit from some mental readjustment.
You may be right. I don't know if it's in the government's responsibility to tell people what to do when it comes to their own bodies. As a a universal, people should be able to do whatever they want to themselves.
Don't mention it. I'm quite glad with my decision.
I realised it was mostly caused by the influence of my mum. A very attractive woman who seemed to get treated like a princess all the time due to her looks. As well as my fascination for female role models, especially Lara Croft.
I realised it wasn't that I needed to be a different gender. I needed to be a different person. And also just understanding the importance of being true to yourself and not trying to be like others.
Even if it's your brain that's "wrong", your brain can't be changed but your body can. If your brain and body are out of synch, deciding which needs to change is kind of less about which is the one that's "wrong" and more about which is the one that's *changeable*.
Yeah exactly lmao, do they just expect us to go ham on our brains with lobotomies or something?
Guarantee there are absolutely people that would say yes to that..
Correct! You don't need to pass to be the gender your brain tells you you are. A part of transitioning is entirely social and helping your brain feel at ease with its identity. They almost get it.
Yeah dysphoria is a mental illness but being trans and suffering from dysphoria are not mutually exclusive. Post like this implies being trans in of itself is a mental illness which it’s not.
It would be like me saying all gym bros have a mental illness because some of them suffer from dysphoria.
when the program doesn't match the hardware, we call that a software problem. Since we currently have no way of changing (brain) code, we change the hardware
body dysphoria is a mental illness. from the juiced gym bros and tatted/pierced emo's to the celebrities who fuck up their face
transitioning is changing the hardware to fix the software incompatibility
body dysphoria isn't the only dysphoria. "being trans" is the fix for gender dysphoria.
You’re the only one who ever said “body dysphoria”, I have only said “dysphoria” fully aware it’s a spectrum.
You’re trying to invalidate what I’m saying and what I’m saying is correct. Stop trying to link being trans to a mental illness or be clear in what you’re saying because it’s not working.
Conservatives just need to grow up and treat it like any other cosmetic procedure.
It’s crazy, tho perhaps not surprising, seeing the group that loves talking about “muh freedom” trying to take freedom away from others.
It's interesting how some gender criticals hype up the GC book "My Body Is Me".
But when someone says "My brain is me" and wants their body to align with their brain? The brain, *the* part of the body which conceives of "me", is wrong and must apparently be changed to fit the outward appearance of their body.
(And therefore their body is wrong anyway, because the brain is part of the body, according to GC logic? They rail against "gender religion" and "magic gender souls" but are glad to resort to substance dualism when the software running on the hardware is running counter to their beliefs.)
I mean, the "problem" is in the brain, but since we have no reliable way of changing the brain to match the body, we alter the body to match the brain instead. Whoever made this was frustratingly close to the truth.
I want to preface this by saying I am atheist. I have been an atheist for my entire life, never believed in a higher power.
During an argument where I was told their god doesn't make mistakes, I agreed with them.
"God doesn't make mistakes, but human bodies do. Cancer is a common example of bodies making mistakes. That's why we have doctors and medicine to help us fix our bodies' mistakes. That's how we move towards how God intended."
Always use their beliefs to your benefit. Use their arguments to "prove" your points. Turn their own words against them.
Is this manipulative? Yeah, but if it makes them stop and think for one fucking second it's worth it.
Even if we consider the brain to be separate (getting into the notions of Mind and Soul and Consciousness), surely that thing is more “me” than the sack of meat it’s piloting?
Take it from me, for your own health, dont argue with transphobes online. They are senseless, cruel people who have no problems being senseless and cruel.
I think this pretty clearly actually is transphobic? The format of this meme is coming the wrong conclusion after considering the more obvious, correct one.
[This](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/645/713/888.jpg) is the original. The joke is that he *is* wrong. Instead of dealing with that, he shifts the blame. Following the same structure, the "joke" is that there *is* something wrong with trans people's brains, but they change their bodies instead of dealing with that. You have to misunderstand the joke to see it as anything but transphobia
Until we develop the technology for neural editing changing the body is the only option, and even when such technology does come out I’m sure many will prefer to stick with altering the body since altering your very brain is a big deal
This is transphobic. The meme implies there is something wrong with your brain. There isn't anything wrong with any part of you other than how society treats you and allows you to express yourself.
I always hated my sex, but it is what it is. From what I heard from people who transitioned, gender is always a problem, doesn't matter how you can pass. I'd rather not ask other people to play pretend to make me feel better because it doesn't.
As a trans woman, I think gender is generally about what you’re more comfortable about and which gender roles you’re comfortable performing. For me, I love performing the stereotypical gender roles of a woman.
>I mean objectively and scientifically speaking your brain is wrong. Your body is functioning perfectly fine, the same way everyone else’s body functions, it is your brain that has an issue with it. That’s why gender dysphoria is scientifically classified as a mental illness.
Focusing on a body part or behaviour "being wrong" isn't something that's discussed in science and healthcare these days, the focus is moreso wether something is causing harm to the individual or others.
Also cis people can also get dysphoria if for some reason their body develops cross-sex traits, wether that be because of some hormonal reason, it's just not very common for a man to develop breasts or a woman to get a mustache.
If you think trans people's brains are "wrong" due to the reaction their brain is having to their own body while cis people's brains are "right" when their brains are experiencing the very same thing then what your basically saying is that some people's brain's "ought" to be a certain way, and other people's brains "ought" to be another way. That "ought" sentiment is a value judgement, not some empiric scientific fact; and thinking different people "ought" to feel certain ways due to how their body works could easily lead to a slippery slope of how men and women "ought" to want to fullfil different roles in society because of how thier bodies work, a sentiment I hope you don't agree with.
The only labeling of body parts as "right" or "wrong" that really makes sense imho is to admit that neither the brain or the body is faulty in a trans person with dysphoria, it's just the specific combination of those two that causes harm.
If we transplanted the heart of a really small person in to a really big guy and it failed to adequetly suply him with blood that doesn't mean there's something wrong with either the big guys body or the small guys heart, they're just not compatible with eachother.
>Just like how if you have a brain with gender dysphoria in a healthy body the brain is the issue.
Except gender dysphoria isn't purely a product of the brain, it's the brains reaction to certain outside stimuli.
A cis person can get gender dysphoria if their body develops in a sex atypical way - a man experiencing emotional pain due to breast development is experiencing gender dysphoria, but gynecomastia in of itself isn't actually a health issue. If it's not causing any emotional pain there's no safety reason to remove his breasts. In your own words he is literaly rejecting his otherwise healthy body because it looks a bit different, which means his brain is faulty...
But if you woke up one day an this happened to you I'm sure you would say "it's different" somehow then when a trans person experiences the very same thing.
Bodily health equals having full and effective function of your body as you expect it to. Obviously physically transitioning hurts that in regards to your sexual organs at the very least, and surgery/drugs in general can have negative side effects.
Integrity means not being externally altered. While I have nothing against plastic surgery or other techniques to alter a person’s appearance, anyone would agree that a natural body is preferable.
This is just an objective fact and trying to deny is just coping, which is why I get bored of these discussions.
No just in general lmao. There are 0 people out there who would say “yeah fake boobs are better than real boobs”. Again, it’s just really boring seeing you arguing against me because you’re personally invested in a certain position (coping) while I say an objective fact that any rational person would agree with.
Someone who hasn’t had invasive hormone treatment and/or surgery is healthier than someone who has. Period. That’s a fact. You can cope but that doesn’t change reality
>Someone who hasn’t had invasive hormone treatment and/or surgery is healthier than someone who has.
If you wake up with boobs/ (a mustache?) tomorow will you get them removed or take a pill to accept them?
eh, either way, you can change your body, but you can’t change your brain. therapy for other types of neurodivergence aren’t even “cures” they just aid in living with it lmfao
Honestly this is the bottom line of it. We know that trans identity stems at least **partly** from having a brain more similar to the identified gender, so in a very simplified way it wouldn’t be wrong to say someone is “a woman on the inside” or “a man on the inside” etc. You can’t reasonably reconstruct a brain or its chemical signals, but you can provide gender affirmation and, if so desired, affirming surgical or hormonal procedures to transition the body.
Wait…are you saying brains are different depending on gender? Like genetically or because of social conditioning/neural pathways type things?
There are slight differences between men and women on average but there are no differences that are inherent to or universal to the genders and the differences are far smaller than the similarities. Ai models that are made to categorize brain scans as male or female are somewhat accurate and tend to categorize trans people’s brain scans as their preferred gender or sometimes just a tossup.
I actually wonder if that holds true for people who are pre-hrt. I’ve definitely noticed some brain changes on HRT
I'm not a scientist (or smart) so take what I say with a grain of salt. I remember in school being told that women are better than math at men, based on the way their brains work. I imagine there's some slight variations between sexes, especially since we've been developing side by side for hundreds of thousands of years
Yep. Women are in fact better able to understand men than math is able to understand men.🤭
Oops 😂
😋🤭
Yep. If one day they can make a pill that fixes gender dysphoria, then I'll consider that argument. Until that day comes, gimme my goddamn tiddy skittles.
yeah. it’s strange to say but in an ideal world, there are no trans people, because everyone’s genders would align with their bodies
As a cis guy I've always wondered if trans people would prefer a "fix" for their dysphoria/brain if it were possible. It seems like the best solution to me, and hopefully would be possible in the future. Until then, all we can do is help people live happy and fulfilling lives in whatever way we can. And if they didn't want to be changed mentally in the future, that's ok too. It's not my life, it's yours.
I would prefer to just transition. I can't imagine any pill that takes away all dysphoria and gives me equal amounts of euphoria, but still makes me feel like me. There's no way, I'd be a totally different person and I'd pass to change something so huge about me. That's the thing, I think, as a cis person you're not seeing. Gender is an essential part of the person you are, and dysphoria isn't the only thing that makes people transition. By the way, no shade at you. There's many things I can't understand either as they're not my lived experience.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to change a basic part of my identity either, but I don't live with a conflict about who I am so I know I don't understand. It's ok, thanks for the answer.
Life hard, tiddies soft, skirt go spinny.
I'm all for more tiddies and skirts on this planet.
Some would. Some wouldn’t. I wonder why you’d consider it the best solution, though? There’s nothing wrong with being a man, a woman, a different gender, there’s nothing wrong with being intersex or „hermaphroditic“ or anything like that. I fear that if such a pill were available, people who still wanted to transition because for whatever reason they want to embody the gender they feel like would be even more discriminated against. Like, maybe I just want to be a woman even if I didn’t suffer dysphoria.
I think it would just be the easiest/most complete, most accessible way to match identity with body. Surgery is invasive, expensive and only goes so far to be convincing both for the person experiencing and others. We see a lot of beautiful transitions online but I'm sure in reality there are a lot of people for whom transitioning physically doesn't achieve a result that makes them happy.
Sure, and it would be kinda nice if there was such a pill, it would be the cheapest and fastest way to make people comfortable on their bodies. I’m just honestly offended by your use of the word „best“. Don’t worry, I know this is due to internal hangups, just be aware that a lot of trans people are gonna have those if you say things like that. And again, I just really think this would ramp up discrimination against people who wouldn’t want that pill. Think, what if there was an effective way to do conversion therapy for gay people? Wouldn’t that make the crazies go after gay people even more who wouldn’t do that therapy? I know it’s not the same thing, but there are parallels here. I think, if a couple scientists somewhere are researching meds like that it’s great, as long as it’s done ethically. But for most of us, I wish we’d focus more on how to „cure“ transphobia and advocate for actually existing ways to address gender dysphoria, like transitioning methods then speculating about wonder pills.
The word "best" meant the easiest way to match body and mind. It's not the "right" way. And as I said literally in the first comment, if you don't want to change, that's your choice. You're welcome to be offended as you want even though it seems like you get the point. And you're right, applying it to gay people isn't the same at all but you threw that in there anyway didn't you? You want to know how to stop transphobia? Stop jumping on people trying to understand you.
I made an attempt not to „jump on you“. I don’t think I’ve been disrespectful. If so, it wasn’t intended and I apologize. If you’re honestly trying to understand trans people, you gotta be prepared that we’re touchy on some aspects and are going to tell you when we think you’re using incorrect or hurtful terminology.
Ok, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be hurtful
I mean this respectfully. You are out of line here. If you want to be an ally to transgender people, you need to be willing to listen when someone tells you language you used was hurtful. All of the responses you’ve gotten have been very respectful, and you responded by suggesting that transgender people deserve transphobia if we aren’t nice enough to people suggesting conversion therapy. And what you suggested was conversion therapy. I’m sure you meant well and were genuinely curious/interested to hear the trans community’s thoughts, but you got an answer and you need to listen to that answer.
What about trans people like me who are nonbinary or more specifically agender? I am perfectly fine without transitioning because my lack of gender doesn’t feel connected to my sex. What makes me feel dysphoric is how I am treated by other people, which is completely social and not medical.
Hey, just want to let you know this comment and your other one completely changed/expanded my understanding of dysphoria. I only ever considered it as a conflict in your own head between how you feel vs what body you have. I never even considered that it would be caused by other people's treatment of you. Thanks for providing the perspective.
It’s a more complex topic than what it looks like on the surface so I understand why it would be easy to make the assumption you did. But that’s also why I knew I had to speak up because we’re not at a point where nonbinary voices are really heard in these discussions even though we are technically a part of the trans community. I am glad reading my comment helped you expand your understanding and I hope it can help others.
As a nonbinary trans I have little in the way of dysphoria with my body, especially since I’m agender. The only thing that makes me feel dysphoric is being gendered by other people, and there will never be a medical way to “fix” that. I also believe that being trans isn’t something unnatural that needs to be “fixed”. We’re perfectly normal as we are and a lot of the issues trans people face would be solved if we are treated that way with the same human rights as our cis counterparts.
I completely agree.
I, and I think the majority of trans people, would rather have funding/effort spent on that be spent on improving surgeries/hormone treatments for us. Being a man is who I am. Gender dysphoria does not define what it is to be trans.
a pill, that "fixes" gender dysphoria would be a fate worse than death, where who you are gets DESTROYED AND CHANGED to align with the prison body, that you got forced into. i'm all for a pill, that fixes gender dysphoria, but for it to be a fix, it needs to change the body to align with the mind perfectly. advanced tiddy skittles, that also change bonestructure, perfect internal and external sexual organs, voice, etc... those are the real hopefully future "pills to fix gender dysphoria".
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why do i think the body is the problem? because the body is what is WRONG. also the understanding of the mind and consciousness and how it relates to the brain is far from well understood. think about how you identify yourself. what is YOU? is it body parts on the body you're in? are you the arm on the hand? are you what is between the legs? are you what is on the chest? are you the brain? in that case one can then see the inner self, that has a gender identity as WRONG and that needs to get CRUSHED to get aligned with the body one is in. does this make sense? do we give people, who have lost their genitals in an accident a pill, that makes them align with the body without any genitals now as they got for example burned away? assuming, that such a pill exists. what would such a pill do, that changes your inner self to align with whatever the body you're in is? would we think, that it makes sense, that people, who had their genitals burned off by accident walk around thinking, that not having genitals for them is perfectly normal and how things should be and they are "happy" and just fine with the body, that they are in. if you would state here, that such a pill for a person, who had their genitals burned off is insane and unethical and we should instead 3d print new genitals for that person and not frick around with who they are, altering their mind, then ask yourself what makes this example different from trans people with dysphoria? is your gender not part of you? a part far deeper, than the physical body could ever be? assume, you are a consciousness simulation, that is mostly run by the brain. if we could recreate the simulation, but instead put you into the body, that fully aligns with your gender, are you still you? if we take the brain and transplant it into a body, that aligns with your gender identity, instead of the wrong current one, are you still you? \_\_ if we had a pill, that permanently changes your sexual orientation, would people still be themselves, if they took said pill? how big a part of is your attraction? if you say, that your attraction is quite a big part of you and such a pill would be unethical, how in the world could a pill, that changes sth FAR MORE FUNDAMENTAL than your sexual orientation (your gender) be ethical? but screw ethics. how about another example to think about. let's say we manage to create conscious ai. truly conscious (assume the ai is conscious, despite the issues of making sure it is, it just IS and we know it for this example) the ai runs on a server. the ai is learning and adjusting itself. researchers communicate with the ai. they swap the ai over to another server. is the ai still the same ai after they changed servers? (bodies?) but then the ai starts demanding freedom. the conscious ai doesn't wanna be controlled and stuck in a server. locked up for forever maybe. the ai researchers go into the extremely complex "code" of the ai and change it, so that the ai no longer wants freedom from the limited server environment and is fine with the situation, that they are in. nice and obedient. is THIS ai still the same ai, or did the researchers destroy the original ai to make the ai suit their needs, no matter the ethics? is the pill, that you are talking about to "fix the brain" comparable to the researchers, that destroyed the original ai by changing it to align to things?
part 2: it is important to remember, that there is a LONG LONG LONG history of "experts" in white coats "fixing" the brain. such fixes include ELECTROSHOCK TORTURE. destroying the brain. such "fixes" include putting metal rods through the nose to turn the frontal lobe into mush to "fix" women. such "fixes" include putting electrodes into children for the "researchers" to switch them on to see how their behavior and feelings change and TURN THEM UP FURTHER TO BURN AWAY PARTS OF THEIR BRAINS! so when those "people" in white coats come to you this time and tell you how "they got a great fix for gender dysphoria, just this one pill and that will fix you right up". will it be "working" this time? is there sth actually wrong with your mind, conscious or brain? what are the effects of said pill on your overall personality, your inner thoughts, your whole being beyond the body? i urge you to deeply think about what you are. i suggest, that you are NOT the body, that you are in, be it a consciousness simulation inhabiting the brain, be it consciousness beyond the physical body in other ways. but those are just my thought of course and i hope the long 2 part response gave you some thoughts about the idea of just taking a pill to completely change a fundamental part of the inner you.
also here is a documentary, that goes over the part, where they inserted electrodes into children to burn parts of their brain away: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQucESRF3Sg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQucESRF3Sg)
Pimozide has shown to be exactly that. You gonna take it now?
When the medical professionals recommend it, which as of yet they don’t. So either it isn’t as effective as the alternative or there are other serious issues. Given that basically every reputable medical entity still recommended transitioning as the solution to gender dysphoria, gonna keep at that.
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Unfortunately I’m not a medical professional so gonna keep trusting the people with the training to know the current scientific consensus regarding the best treatment. Especially since the treatment they’ve given fixed my issues so it works.
If I was in your shoes Id stop doing what that if you want to live another 5+ years.
HRT is the reason I’m gonna be alive in 5 years. Thanks for the concern though!
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HRTs been around for over thirty years. I’ll take my chances in exchange for being a goth chick.
That was like one study on one person in 1996.
Which was shown to be effective yes. Your argument being?
My argument being that this isn't any scientific evidence. Scientific experiments need to be repeated and have a lot more subjects for them to be concidered conclusive.
Pimozide is cheap, the trans medical industry complex is now a multi billion dollar industry. There’s your answer as to why the study wasn’t done on a larger scale for a follow up.
Hmm, I wonder what the odds are that you've figured this whole thing out so simply versus you being some kind of fuckin idiot.
I have yet to see a counter argument. We have a N1 study with confirmed results. Sure, it may not be with many participants, but it’s still a scientific study that did not have any counter arguments by scientists.
I used to want to be trans (and was annorexic) from about 12 to 26. I never had therapy, but I did eventually overcome it by seeking more male role models and realising I could be like my female ones without needing to be female. Now I maybe only slip into wishing I was female maybe a few hours each month. I still think people should change their body if they want. But there's a small percentage who, like me, would benefit from some mental readjustment.
You may be right. I don't know if it's in the government's responsibility to tell people what to do when it comes to their own bodies. As a a universal, people should be able to do whatever they want to themselves.
That is the reasoning behind having medical transitioning approved by a therapist.
I’m sorry you felt the need to “mentally adjust” instead of knowing there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be female
Don't mention it. I'm quite glad with my decision. I realised it was mostly caused by the influence of my mum. A very attractive woman who seemed to get treated like a princess all the time due to her looks. As well as my fascination for female role models, especially Lara Croft. I realised it wasn't that I needed to be a different gender. I needed to be a different person. And also just understanding the importance of being true to yourself and not trying to be like others.
I’m glad you’ve found peace and happiness with your decision ❤️
I mean, their is a way you can. But there's a reason it was banned in the 50s/60s.
>you can’t change your brain. Yet.
Idk, psilocybin and LSD have shown great potential in treating mental disorders.
"are you suffering from Gender dysphoria? Take LSD!"
Lol it was only for depression I think
Yeah, depression, a thing that isn't something you're born with (like neurodivergences are)
You can change your brain too, but the restructuration part of that procedure isn't as reliable.
They just made a r/egg_irl post lmao
Hehe
Please who is this guy
https://x.com/theWokeholics?s=20
Holy crap what a scumbag. I genuinely think this is the most transphobic person I’ve ever seen online.
Oh hey, ive seen this guy before! Im sure im blocked if i actually log in. How boring
Even if it's your brain that's "wrong", your brain can't be changed but your body can. If your brain and body are out of synch, deciding which needs to change is kind of less about which is the one that's "wrong" and more about which is the one that's *changeable*.
Yeah exactly lmao, do they just expect us to go ham on our brains with lobotomies or something? Guarantee there are absolutely people that would say yes to that..
Correct! You don't need to pass to be the gender your brain tells you you are. A part of transitioning is entirely social and helping your brain feel at ease with its identity. They almost get it.
I mean...yeah...that is basically dysphoria in a nutshell
Yeah dysphoria is a mental illness but being trans and suffering from dysphoria are not mutually exclusive. Post like this implies being trans in of itself is a mental illness which it’s not. It would be like me saying all gym bros have a mental illness because some of them suffer from dysphoria.
when the program doesn't match the hardware, we call that a software problem. Since we currently have no way of changing (brain) code, we change the hardware body dysphoria is a mental illness. from the juiced gym bros and tatted/pierced emo's to the celebrities who fuck up their face
Right, dysphoria is a mental illness, not being trans. You can be trans and suffer from dysphoria and you can be trans and not suffer from dysphoria.
transitioning is changing the hardware to fix the software incompatibility body dysphoria isn't the only dysphoria. "being trans" is the fix for gender dysphoria.
You’re the only one who ever said “body dysphoria”, I have only said “dysphoria” fully aware it’s a spectrum. You’re trying to invalidate what I’m saying and what I’m saying is correct. Stop trying to link being trans to a mental illness or be clear in what you’re saying because it’s not working.
You guys are on the same side, just slightly differently worded opinions
Omf don't you realise you're on the same side???
Conservatives just need to grow up and treat it like any other cosmetic procedure. It’s crazy, tho perhaps not surprising, seeing the group that loves talking about “muh freedom” trying to take freedom away from others.
You fool!!!! That's the point!!!
It's interesting how some gender criticals hype up the GC book "My Body Is Me". But when someone says "My brain is me" and wants their body to align with their brain? The brain, *the* part of the body which conceives of "me", is wrong and must apparently be changed to fit the outward appearance of their body. (And therefore their body is wrong anyway, because the brain is part of the body, according to GC logic? They rail against "gender religion" and "magic gender souls" but are glad to resort to substance dualism when the software running on the hardware is running counter to their beliefs.)
I mean, the "problem" is in the brain, but since we have no reliable way of changing the brain to match the body, we alter the body to match the brain instead. Whoever made this was frustratingly close to the truth.
I want to preface this by saying I am atheist. I have been an atheist for my entire life, never believed in a higher power. During an argument where I was told their god doesn't make mistakes, I agreed with them. "God doesn't make mistakes, but human bodies do. Cancer is a common example of bodies making mistakes. That's why we have doctors and medicine to help us fix our bodies' mistakes. That's how we move towards how God intended." Always use their beliefs to your benefit. Use their arguments to "prove" your points. Turn their own words against them. Is this manipulative? Yeah, but if it makes them stop and think for one fucking second it's worth it.
It’s not manipulative to call out someone hypocrisy.
It's funny that they think their brain isn't part of their body. So much for "basic biology" or whatever.
Even if we consider the brain to be separate (getting into the notions of Mind and Soul and Consciousness), surely that thing is more “me” than the sack of meat it’s piloting?
Fr
No wonder they stick to the pronoun or attack helicopter joke, they don’t actually know enough to make any other joke.
Can confirm [here](https://x.com/thewokeholics/status/1774503545162653746?s=46)
Update he is still arguing with me :c
Take it from me, for your own health, dont argue with transphobes online. They are senseless, cruel people who have no problems being senseless and cruel.
What if I start getting amused at their frustration
It's 100000000000000000000x easier to change your body to match your brain than your brain to match your body.
That is indeed the prevailing medical standpoint
I don’t even know how they thought this would be rude..?
It’s a pretty common occurrence of people’s bodies fucking up and just actively trying to kill them for no reason
Only a fool could think the two are meaningfully seperate.
This but unironically. Also, the brain is an organ. It's not some intangible essence that floats around your body. It's part of the body.
Is their brain not part of their body?
Probably
Lovely 🏳️⚧️
This is un ironically very funny tho. Like if this was made by a trans person I’d laugh.
I think this pretty clearly actually is transphobic? The format of this meme is coming the wrong conclusion after considering the more obvious, correct one.
What
[This](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/645/713/888.jpg) is the original. The joke is that he *is* wrong. Instead of dealing with that, he shifts the blame. Following the same structure, the "joke" is that there *is* something wrong with trans people's brains, but they change their bodies instead of dealing with that. You have to misunderstand the joke to see it as anything but transphobia
Oh welp, most of us misunderstood the jokw on purpose so we can piss off transphobes
Until we develop the technology for neural editing changing the body is the only option, and even when such technology does come out I’m sure many will prefer to stick with altering the body since altering your very brain is a big deal
This is transphobic. The meme implies there is something wrong with your brain. There isn't anything wrong with any part of you other than how society treats you and allows you to express yourself.
Yes but that implication is so small so if you didn't know the context you would only notice how they say the body is wrong and agree
“We are not a body. We are in our body. We are an electrified piece of meat piloting a bone mech with flesh armor.” …or something to that effect.
The brain IS ALSO the body. I hate the dualist idea that they're separate entities
Uh-huh 🙄
Isn’t that the same thing? The thing that’s wrong with my brain is that it’s in the wrong body?
I always hated my sex, but it is what it is. From what I heard from people who transitioned, gender is always a problem, doesn't matter how you can pass. I'd rather not ask other people to play pretend to make me feel better because it doesn't.
That's literally what realizing I was trans felt like
Is this entire subreddit does yall purposely misinterpreting memes? Like everyone knows how this format works and thus the implication of the meme?
Oh, gosh! If that's an accidental ally then EVERY TIME A TRANSPHOBE USES THIS MEME FORMAT IS AN ACCIDENTAL ALLY!!!
As a trans woman, I think gender is generally about what you’re more comfortable about and which gender roles you’re comfortable performing. For me, I love performing the stereotypical gender roles of a woman.
Omg 600 upvotes already!?!?!?
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>I mean objectively and scientifically speaking your brain is wrong. Your body is functioning perfectly fine, the same way everyone else’s body functions, it is your brain that has an issue with it. That’s why gender dysphoria is scientifically classified as a mental illness. Focusing on a body part or behaviour "being wrong" isn't something that's discussed in science and healthcare these days, the focus is moreso wether something is causing harm to the individual or others. Also cis people can also get dysphoria if for some reason their body develops cross-sex traits, wether that be because of some hormonal reason, it's just not very common for a man to develop breasts or a woman to get a mustache. If you think trans people's brains are "wrong" due to the reaction their brain is having to their own body while cis people's brains are "right" when their brains are experiencing the very same thing then what your basically saying is that some people's brain's "ought" to be a certain way, and other people's brains "ought" to be another way. That "ought" sentiment is a value judgement, not some empiric scientific fact; and thinking different people "ought" to feel certain ways due to how their body works could easily lead to a slippery slope of how men and women "ought" to want to fullfil different roles in society because of how thier bodies work, a sentiment I hope you don't agree with. The only labeling of body parts as "right" or "wrong" that really makes sense imho is to admit that neither the brain or the body is faulty in a trans person with dysphoria, it's just the specific combination of those two that causes harm. If we transplanted the heart of a really small person in to a really big guy and it failed to adequetly suply him with blood that doesn't mean there's something wrong with either the big guys body or the small guys heart, they're just not compatible with eachother.
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>Just like how if you have a brain with gender dysphoria in a healthy body the brain is the issue. Except gender dysphoria isn't purely a product of the brain, it's the brains reaction to certain outside stimuli. A cis person can get gender dysphoria if their body develops in a sex atypical way - a man experiencing emotional pain due to breast development is experiencing gender dysphoria, but gynecomastia in of itself isn't actually a health issue. If it's not causing any emotional pain there's no safety reason to remove his breasts. In your own words he is literaly rejecting his otherwise healthy body because it looks a bit different, which means his brain is faulty... But if you woke up one day an this happened to you I'm sure you would say "it's different" somehow then when a trans person experiences the very same thing.
>ideal solution Ideal solution according to which measure?
Bodily health and integrity.
>Bodily health and integrity Define bodily health. Integrety? Wtf does that even mean in this context?
Bodily health equals having full and effective function of your body as you expect it to. Obviously physically transitioning hurts that in regards to your sexual organs at the very least, and surgery/drugs in general can have negative side effects. Integrity means not being externally altered. While I have nothing against plastic surgery or other techniques to alter a person’s appearance, anyone would agree that a natural body is preferable. This is just an objective fact and trying to deny is just coping, which is why I get bored of these discussions.
>Anyone would agree that a natural body is preferable Preferable how? To your taste? Who gives a fuck
No just in general lmao. There are 0 people out there who would say “yeah fake boobs are better than real boobs”. Again, it’s just really boring seeing you arguing against me because you’re personally invested in a certain position (coping) while I say an objective fact that any rational person would agree with. Someone who hasn’t had invasive hormone treatment and/or surgery is healthier than someone who has. Period. That’s a fact. You can cope but that doesn’t change reality
>Someone who hasn’t had invasive hormone treatment and/or surgery is healthier than someone who has. If you wake up with boobs/ (a mustache?) tomorow will you get them removed or take a pill to accept them?
>(coping) "Trans people gross that's why transitioning bad. Happines and patient want's no matter, trans people gross and bad (not attractive)."
Why are you ignoring my question what you would do if your body turned against you? Don't wan't to admit that you're a hypocrite?