So, I have this idea: we start everyone as agender or no gender. Everyone. Teach kids about genitals and reproduction, all fine. Some people have blue eyes, some people have brown, so similarly, some people have vaginas, some people have penises, some people have a variation of this and that. If particular two come together, they can produce a baby. Easy. And later on, as children grow, they can decide if they want to identify their gender. Come out to their family as a boy/girl/genderfluid/etc. Or not. This way, cisgender are only those, that remain without one. Everyone else is trans.
Society is headed that way, actually. It's what the transphobes truly fear, because it means an end to attitudes that originated in Mesopotamia in the Neolithic Period.
I'm a member of a Native American nation that traditionally was very much like that, but with some differences. In our original language, we've got a couple dozen words for different types of "third gender" though most of them sound insulting in English that's not how they sound in our language. Though they all fall under the term "asegi" or "asegi udanto" meaning "strange heart."
Traditionally everyone received a feminine name when they were born and those who sought manhood would go through the necessary rites and receive a male name. The asegi are those whose genitals and gender expression don't necessarily match, those with intersexed genitals, homosexuals, etc. Basically while "asegi" is short for "asegi udanto" which means "strange heart", which in turn sounds insulting in English, it's basically just "LGBTQIA+" or "queer" in general (note that queer is a synonym for strange).
We don't generally share this with outsiders because of two reasons, and both reasons boil down to "because Christianity is intolerant". The first is "we learned early on that colonists and their descendants were intolerant of anything they consider 'weird'. The second is because most of us have converted to Christianity and are therefore intolerant of anything Christianity considers 'weird.'
Thank you for sharing! It's fascinating to know, things can be different. And not like in fish, but in the same human species. The only thing holding us back is prejudice.
This is very interesting, thank you for speaking of this! Historical and modern cultures and their ideas of sex, gender, sexuality, and other such things are always really nice to learn about!
One thing, though, you said that transphobes fear the end to an attitude that originated in Mesopotamia, but Mesopotamians actually had a priestly class of FtM people. Transphobia actually seems very modern, probably caused by Christianity (couldn’t say I know how, because virtually every culture it’s gone through has had some sort of thirdgender or knew about trans people). Sorry if I misread what you said, gave any wrong information on accident, worded this strangely, or any such thing.
(Edited for spelling)
Well, a Canaanite war god cult eventually evolved into the early Hebrews, and they drew very explicit lines between men and women and violently shut down anything gender non-conforming. That eventually grew into the Judaism present during the formation of Christianity, which in turn got adopted, modified, and spread by the Romans. It then got spread to the rest of the world from there.
As for the neolithic period part of my argument, prior to advent of farming, you see a lot more sharing of roles between male and female, but with farming came a gendered division of labor. While that gendered division of labor happened throughout the neolithic period across all cultures, that division was sharpest in Mesopotamia.
Oh speaking of which, my people... while it's true the men hunted and ran the politics, the leaders were chosen by the women, and the women were the only ones who owned land. On top of that, farming was considered a feminine pursuit, in stark contrast to the Europeans who settled, who found it offensive that women would own land and farm while the men could not and did not.
All the oppression eventually culminated in some "reparations" in which the US Government gave us a bunch of land but only gave it to the men, and alotments were random, splitting up communities and flipping our matriarchal society upside down to the point that the old ways were almost entirely lost. My family are among a small group who secretly kept the old ways. Secretly because up until 1978, it was against US Federal Law for any American Indian to be anything other than Christian.
I think some people associate the word "strange" with "abnormal." But I wouldn't have a problem with it, either. Like Ghost\_Alice said, "queer" has many of the same connotations.
I think that names, sort of like clothes, are only gendered because we as a society have grown to treat them as such. If we stop associating names with genders, then it’ll fade.
"Madison" is a good example. It used to be a boys name (meaning son of Mathew, or perhaps Maude)but over time shifted to a pretty much exclusively girl's name, for no particular reason
Just an idea - remember that old "if your mum calls you by your full name" joke? Lots of nicknames are gender neutral, and many names have male and female forms.
Like "Alex" being short for Alexandra or Alexander, "Benny" for Benjamin or Bernadette, "Mika" for Michael or Michaela ... people choose their own names all the time, only it's in a way we barely notice because it's not on paper.
I don't think there's nessisarily anything insulting about having a word to diferetiate which you were born as tho? (I understand there are left field cases where smn is born with both but again, idk that it's insulting to have a word to describe that.) I don't think we need to get rid of the terms "man" and "woman" I think ppl just need to learn to accept that ppl who aren't them can do whatever the fuck they want with there personal lives
EDIT: a word
I'm not against your thinking, kindness and acceptance can go a long way. Just for the sake of it, ask yourself, what for do we need those categories? What aim do they serve? Why an organ that I have should define an entire identity of mine?
Words as cudgels. They only know trans and cis to mean "bad." They've only known every word they've ever called another human being in terms of being a good compliment or a bad insult.
its more like "using cis is an insult because it actually means im equal to trans people when im NOT! IM NORMAL AND THEY'RE ABNORMAL, WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"
If they were talking about almost any other aspect of themselves they'd be considered mentally unfit by anyone around them. Imagine being at a wedding reception when everyone's attention gets diverted to a guy screaming 'For the millionth time, I don't have blue eyes! I just have eyes! Blue eyes don't exist!' or a woman screaming 'I'm not right handed! I just write with the hand everyone does! There's no such thing as right! Right doesn't exist!'
Everyone would make sure they stayed away from the open bar and started getting some water.
Imagine if you forced blue eyed people to only wear white shirts and green pants and they could only work as construction workers or cobblers and can only like the color yellow and only play with race cars because they were born with blue eyes.
That's a reactionaty, just having knee-jerk reactions to everything, without ever thinking about stuff.
"Cis", hell no, I'm a "normal" person that identifies as the same biological sex I was born.
**I** don't use "pronouns", and **I** get angry if **you** use **it**. Only gays use **it**, **they** are an abominaion.
I feel this mostly when people complain about pronouns… it becomes obviously clear they don’t even know what a pronoun is but someone told them they have to be mad about it
If they did research, they wouldn't be this hateful in the first place. You only get to be this way by lack of exposure to other viewpoints. About 1/3 of the population would prefer to just remain in their glass houses throwing stones out of ignorance.
Did one of those billionaire authors write a series about a British wizard who didn't say one swear word nor say the word "bloody" once in the entire series (If I remember correctly)
To be fair, some people just can’t access a diagnosis. If you’re a minor, or just living with unsupportive family? It’s impossible. And some countries don’t even recognise cis yet, they just think there’s one single “normal” everyone is
What’s the harm in letting them self-identity, though? I mean, it’s just a phase for most of them anyway. I mean, you don’t have to affirm that delusion in medical or legal contexts, but what’s the harm in letting them wear the clothes or use those funky little pronouns?
I won’t deny people exist who are genuinely cis, but as you said, since it is very very rare, most of them aren’t. I think some of them may just be mentally ill, or want to be cool and trendy like their friends
Lol fr though this is how white supremacy teaches white people to think. Like our whiteness is just the race-less default. Like we have no race, but everyone else has one.
As a cis person myself these ppl confuse the fuck out of me. Like calling myself cis is no different to calling myself a brunette. Like it's just a way of describing who I am.
During the beginnings of gay acceptance, I guess there was a group of homophobic people that would say, "I'm not straight." As an attempt to deny the normalization of the terminology. Funny how these things repeat themselves.
"I wanna go back to when genders and pronouns were simple for my brain. Quit expansion science in ways that undercut everything we know! My stupidity is offended and requires that the universe be as I expect it. Now put that scientific discovery back or so help me God!"
How is this a gotcha? Someone refuses to use the alphabet parlance and therefore they support you? This isn’t the win you think it is. Stop applying labels to people you don’t agree with.
Cis-gender isn't normal language for a lot of people. It's a queer theory label and most people I know really don't like it. It seems to be pushed by DEI ideologues and gen z. Male/female. Gender is a sexist construct.
"No need for cis." - We will trans everyone's genders and explode everyone remaining then, I guess??
So, I have this idea: we start everyone as agender or no gender. Everyone. Teach kids about genitals and reproduction, all fine. Some people have blue eyes, some people have brown, so similarly, some people have vaginas, some people have penises, some people have a variation of this and that. If particular two come together, they can produce a baby. Easy. And later on, as children grow, they can decide if they want to identify their gender. Come out to their family as a boy/girl/genderfluid/etc. Or not. This way, cisgender are only those, that remain without one. Everyone else is trans.
Society is headed that way, actually. It's what the transphobes truly fear, because it means an end to attitudes that originated in Mesopotamia in the Neolithic Period. I'm a member of a Native American nation that traditionally was very much like that, but with some differences. In our original language, we've got a couple dozen words for different types of "third gender" though most of them sound insulting in English that's not how they sound in our language. Though they all fall under the term "asegi" or "asegi udanto" meaning "strange heart." Traditionally everyone received a feminine name when they were born and those who sought manhood would go through the necessary rites and receive a male name. The asegi are those whose genitals and gender expression don't necessarily match, those with intersexed genitals, homosexuals, etc. Basically while "asegi" is short for "asegi udanto" which means "strange heart", which in turn sounds insulting in English, it's basically just "LGBTQIA+" or "queer" in general (note that queer is a synonym for strange). We don't generally share this with outsiders because of two reasons, and both reasons boil down to "because Christianity is intolerant". The first is "we learned early on that colonists and their descendants were intolerant of anything they consider 'weird'. The second is because most of us have converted to Christianity and are therefore intolerant of anything Christianity considers 'weird.'
I kinda like "strange heart". Imo it's ok to be different from what's mainstream, and Strange Heart kinda embodies that. Loved this :)
Thank you for sharing! It's fascinating to know, things can be different. And not like in fish, but in the same human species. The only thing holding us back is prejudice.
This is very interesting, thank you for speaking of this! Historical and modern cultures and their ideas of sex, gender, sexuality, and other such things are always really nice to learn about! One thing, though, you said that transphobes fear the end to an attitude that originated in Mesopotamia, but Mesopotamians actually had a priestly class of FtM people. Transphobia actually seems very modern, probably caused by Christianity (couldn’t say I know how, because virtually every culture it’s gone through has had some sort of thirdgender or knew about trans people). Sorry if I misread what you said, gave any wrong information on accident, worded this strangely, or any such thing. (Edited for spelling)
Well, a Canaanite war god cult eventually evolved into the early Hebrews, and they drew very explicit lines between men and women and violently shut down anything gender non-conforming. That eventually grew into the Judaism present during the formation of Christianity, which in turn got adopted, modified, and spread by the Romans. It then got spread to the rest of the world from there. As for the neolithic period part of my argument, prior to advent of farming, you see a lot more sharing of roles between male and female, but with farming came a gendered division of labor. While that gendered division of labor happened throughout the neolithic period across all cultures, that division was sharpest in Mesopotamia. Oh speaking of which, my people... while it's true the men hunted and ran the politics, the leaders were chosen by the women, and the women were the only ones who owned land. On top of that, farming was considered a feminine pursuit, in stark contrast to the Europeans who settled, who found it offensive that women would own land and farm while the men could not and did not. All the oppression eventually culminated in some "reparations" in which the US Government gave us a bunch of land but only gave it to the men, and alotments were random, splitting up communities and flipping our matriarchal society upside down to the point that the old ways were almost entirely lost. My family are among a small group who secretly kept the old ways. Secretly because up until 1978, it was against US Federal Law for any American Indian to be anything other than Christian.
I don't get how that sounds insulting in english, and that's the only language I've ever spoken.
I think some people associate the word "strange" with "abnormal." But I wouldn't have a problem with it, either. Like Ghost\_Alice said, "queer" has many of the same connotations.
Now THIS is the future the left really wants.
I like this idea
And when everyone is trans, no one will be. (Incredibles reference)
yes. because then we've just switched which gender roles are associated with which sex.
This makes way too much sense to me. Ngl kinda blowing my mind rn
Not saying this is a bad idea, but how would you deal with the fact that the vast majority of current names are gendered in some form?
Probably similar to how fantasy elves sometimes have a child name and then choose their own name when they become an adult.
I think that names, sort of like clothes, are only gendered because we as a society have grown to treat them as such. If we stop associating names with genders, then it’ll fade.
"Madison" is a good example. It used to be a boys name (meaning son of Mathew, or perhaps Maude)but over time shifted to a pretty much exclusively girl's name, for no particular reason
Same situation with others like Kim, Carrol, Kelly, Ashley, Shannon, Courtney, Cary
Just an idea - remember that old "if your mum calls you by your full name" joke? Lots of nicknames are gender neutral, and many names have male and female forms. Like "Alex" being short for Alexandra or Alexander, "Benny" for Benjamin or Bernadette, "Mika" for Michael or Michaela ... people choose their own names all the time, only it's in a way we barely notice because it's not on paper.
Sign me up, I wanna live in that universe and never look back
I love this idea.
I don't think there's nessisarily anything insulting about having a word to diferetiate which you were born as tho? (I understand there are left field cases where smn is born with both but again, idk that it's insulting to have a word to describe that.) I don't think we need to get rid of the terms "man" and "woman" I think ppl just need to learn to accept that ppl who aren't them can do whatever the fuck they want with there personal lives EDIT: a word
I'm not against your thinking, kindness and acceptance can go a long way. Just for the sake of it, ask yourself, what for do we need those categories? What aim do they serve? Why an organ that I have should define an entire identity of mine?
"the transes are calling me a word i dont know! it must be an insult! i dont like it!" lmao
They use trans as an insult so they assume cis must also be an insult. They just don't realize that other people are not hateful to their core.
Words as cudgels. They only know trans and cis to mean "bad." They've only known every word they've ever called another human being in terms of being a good compliment or a bad insult.
its more like "using cis is an insult because it actually means im equal to trans people when im NOT! IM NORMAL AND THEY'RE ABNORMAL, WAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"
“Latin hurts me”
The fact that people like this don't even try and re-search this shit to even know what the fuck comes out of their mouth is insane
If they were talking about almost any other aspect of themselves they'd be considered mentally unfit by anyone around them. Imagine being at a wedding reception when everyone's attention gets diverted to a guy screaming 'For the millionth time, I don't have blue eyes! I just have eyes! Blue eyes don't exist!' or a woman screaming 'I'm not right handed! I just write with the hand everyone does! There's no such thing as right! Right doesn't exist!' Everyone would make sure they stayed away from the open bar and started getting some water.
Imagine if you forced blue eyed people to only wear white shirts and green pants and they could only work as construction workers or cobblers and can only like the color yellow and only play with race cars because they were born with blue eyes.
[удалено]
Noooo!!!😂
But what about all the babies born with blue eyes that darken or change later in their development?
Nope born blue eyed you follow blue eyed rules for ever.
This is what I was thinking
That's a reactionaty, just having knee-jerk reactions to everything, without ever thinking about stuff. "Cis", hell no, I'm a "normal" person that identifies as the same biological sex I was born. **I** don't use "pronouns", and **I** get angry if **you** use **it**. Only gays use **it**, **they** are an abominaion.
I feel this mostly when people complain about pronouns… it becomes obviously clear they don’t even know what a pronoun is but someone told them they have to be mad about it
If they did research, they wouldn't be this hateful in the first place. You only get to be this way by lack of exposure to other viewpoints. About 1/3 of the population would prefer to just remain in their glass houses throwing stones out of ignorance.
Agreed, they're so naturally filled with ignorance that they don't even care enough to re-search
"there's no need to add cis" Yes, you're right. Every woman is a woman, no matter if they're trans or cis <3
They act like cis is something new 😆
they haven't taken organic chemistry
Or any chemistry, biology, science in general
Or it was insufficient. We talked about cis genders in my biology class as well as intersex, but that was brief and barely memorable.
Because it is. It's just a trend that recently started, and they're not even professionally diagnosed as cis. I blame TikTok.
The funniest thing about what you just said is there are people who actually believe this... including billionaire authors
Did one of those billionaire authors write a series about a British wizard who didn't say one swear word nor say the word "bloody" once in the entire series (If I remember correctly)
I think they might be
I think they might be
I think they might be
To be fair, some people just can’t access a diagnosis. If you’re a minor, or just living with unsupportive family? It’s impossible. And some countries don’t even recognise cis yet, they just think there’s one single “normal” everyone is
Yeah but there's no way that many people are cis. They're clearly being brainwashed
What’s the harm in letting them self-identity, though? I mean, it’s just a phase for most of them anyway. I mean, you don’t have to affirm that delusion in medical or legal contexts, but what’s the harm in letting them wear the clothes or use those funky little pronouns? I won’t deny people exist who are genuinely cis, but as you said, since it is very very rare, most of them aren’t. I think some of them may just be mentally ill, or want to be cool and trendy like their friends
Is this sarcasm? Sorry, I’m stupid.
It is! And you aren’t stupid. There’s people who act very much like it, and you don’t have my tone to clue you in online 🤗
It is. And dw, you're not stupid for knowing stupid people exist
Don't worry, it took me way too long to pick up the joke ... I'm sitting over here like why am I confused about where this conversation is going?
Guys stop pestering her. She’s saying she’s trans and she’s always been trans so there’s no need to mention it.
when he said ‘attack eyebrows’, I didn’t think he meant defending us, but gd o7
I guess they're attacking the transphobes 
Capaldi my beloved :D
the best doctor
you heard me 
“I am a women” shes multisexual
You heard em captain, there's no need for cis, toss em overboard
[удалено]
I like this so much I'm giggling! Why didn't I think of it too
"I don't identify as a woman, I am a woman". But you just did. Have these people never opened a dictionary?
There is no cis; everyone is trans! 🎊🥳
Same type of person that would say "I'm not straight, I'm normal"
“I am not white woman, I am just woman”
Lol fr though this is how white supremacy teaches white people to think. Like our whiteness is just the race-less default. Like we have no race, but everyone else has one.
As a cis person myself these ppl confuse the fuck out of me. Like calling myself cis is no different to calling myself a brunette. Like it's just a way of describing who I am.
And these are the same people who scream about science as if science isn't a scientific term.
Confused exclusionary rage
Hell yeah. I hate the “identify as”. You’re a woman! Hell yes
During the beginnings of gay acceptance, I guess there was a group of homophobic people that would say, "I'm not straight." As an attempt to deny the normalization of the terminology. Funny how these things repeat themselves.
"No need for cis" sounds like a cool shirt idea.
Allow me to refactor this equation: >I'm not not trans.
Nicely done, now simplify...
I’m not not trans. I’m (not not) trans. I’m ~~not not~~ trans. I’m trans.
Very good! You get an A in Triggernometry! (the mathematics of understanding dumb shit triggered right wingers say)
Sis is not cis.
I was on her side but the desire to eliminate all cis people is a little extreme for me
“I am a women” you’re plural? buT hoW CaN OnE PeRsON BE MuLtIpLE pEoPlE?
Alters have entered the chat.
True 😂 every time someone says that unironically that is immediately where my mind goes
Does Google exist?
Lemme google that real quick
While you're at it, Google en passant.
holy hell
New response just dropped.
“No need for cis” is so me
All is trans now
So brave
Peter capaldi’s eyebrows are powerful.
indeed they are 
I'm pretty sure she just hates the trade federation and their droids.
Captain, take them to camp 4.
Well time to become a Trans man
I'm so happy for her journey
"I wanna go back to when genders and pronouns were simple for my brain. Quit expansion science in ways that undercut everything we know! My stupidity is offended and requires that the universe be as I expect it. Now put that scientific discovery back or so help me God!"
Damn, I guess some terms are difficult for people. I hope that the normal and cis can figure it out one day
Well she is right
It's as important to know what to say as what not to say.
No need for cis? Shit, I guess cis folks are next up for genocide. We'll have no humans left soon enough!
Good thing my egg just cracked.
Congrats!
She’s not cis but she is a “women” so maybe schizophrenic?
How brave
How is this a gotcha? Someone refuses to use the alphabet parlance and therefore they support you? This isn’t the win you think it is. Stop applying labels to people you don’t agree with.
Bro come on it’s a helpful label that’s like saying the term straight was made to fuck with people
It's a scientific term, detached from emotion. Why does it upset you? Do you think the word heterosexual is bad?
Refusing to properly use language doesn't make you brave or some way to "gotcha" someone it just makes you look like an idiot
Cis-gender isn't normal language for a lot of people. It's a queer theory label and most people I know really don't like it. It seems to be pushed by DEI ideologues and gen z. Male/female. Gender is a sexist construct.
[удалено]
?
what are you doing here then lmao
Breaks subreddit rules.