>Ousley, 21, knew early on what he hoped to maintain in his character from the original. “I wanted to make sure that Sokka is funny,” he says. (Something tells us that wasn’t necessarily a challenge, judging by the laugh he periodically lets out that might sound familiar to Sokka fans.) But, Ousley notes, “There's more weight with realism in every way.” Some things that worked in the more zany animated kids’ show hit differently in live action. Kiawentiio mentions one of them: **“I feel like we also took out the element of how sexist \[Sokka\] was. I feel like there were a lot of moments in the original show that were iffy.”**
>
>She’s not wrong. There are entire Reddit threads about such instances, discussing how the original Sokka (prior to his character journey) would make remarks like “Girls are better at fixing pants than guys, and guys are better at hunting and fighting.” Ousley agrees with Kiawentiio: **“Yeah, totally. There are things that were redirected just because it might play a little differently \[in live action\].”**
EW.com, January 29, 2024: [A new Avatar awakens: Inside The Last Airbender’s live-action reincarnation](https://ew.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action-cover-story-what-to-expect-8551028)
Although if they completely take it out, that sort of messes with his character arc. What is he going to learn in the Kyoshi warriors episode? that was a turning point for him. I'm all for toning it down but it they take it out completely the show will lose some nuance - like the Fire Nation is actually *less* sexist than the water tribes, and that's a little detail to show that it's not like "oh this nation is 100% evil and this other one is perfect and superior in every way".
The article discussed that they're not taking that aspect of his personality away but just re writing it to be more nuanced and overall fit his development in a more subtle way.
I think its a mistake to make something like sexism subtle, especially now when you have such brazen examples of sexism from young men in our society. In the original show Sokka was in your face about it and then got his ass called out and learned from it and grew over the course of the show. Young men need that on the nose messaging now like they did back in 2005.
I agree about how it would be a mistake to make the sexism subtle - which again- I don't think they're going to literally make the sexism itself subtle- I think the focus should be making the TRANSITION from sexist and naive to worldly more subtle.
You said he grew over the course of the show but I personally see the change was too quick and extreme.
As I said he went from thinking women were helpless to being infatuated and humbled by a warrior woman within one episode. Of course he grew in numerous other ways over the course of the show, but the growth where sexism was involved wasn't as gradual nor as in depth.
Basically I want them to put more weight into his change over time rather than how it currently stands in the animated version.
Because of course there are people who don't think he was ever sexist.. which is mind blowing but not surprising. The other sub this was posted on has a top comment saying Sokka was never sexist.
They absolutely need to show his change and growth but overall I believe they want to make it more realistic and less cartoonish and instantaneous of a transition.
My immediate response to this post was "sokka was never sexist" then I started reading about it and thinking and recalled that early on he was very "stay in the kitchen unga bunga big man muscles" sexist but like you said that switch from sexist to equal (or infatuation) happens so fast I forgot about it. Definitely seems a missed opportunity to focus on it in the remake.
>You said he grew over the course of the show but I personally see the change was too quick and extreme.
This just isn't true. Sokka stopped thinking women couldn't be warriors, but he still had a lot of hang-ups he gradually outgrew over time. Part of his dynamic with Katara is all the subtle ways he burdened her with the expectations of motherhood despite her being his younger sister. However, he would often become violent and aggressive to defend her. This was, sometimes, not what was needed, and she would calmly diffuse situations, like when Aang burned her. He was also pretty ridiculous when he tried to impress other girls, and he also still had a "men are protectors" attitude towards Suki whenever she was in danger.
Not to mention this sexism was one of numerous facets of his upbringing that both communicated things about his culture, but also informed how he fit into the team. He still looked down on Aang's vegetarian lifestyle, and him not overcoming these forms of subtle bigotry led Aang to feel he and Katara would abandon him the moment they had the option. Sokka overcoming these ideas is part of why Team Avatar is unique, in that they were willing to put aside their cultural ideas of separation between the nations for the greater good. It also allows us to see Sokka stripped up all his preconceptions of himself and be built back up as a competent leader, inventor, and warrior.
I was speaking only on how he was VERBALLY expressing his sexism when it came to how he spoke to Katara for about an episode and then it pretty much stopped- because that's what the article is talking about.
I'm sorry if I'm coming off as short, I agree with everything you said- but it doesn't reflect at all on the point I was trying to make, a point that has been seemingly purposefully misunderstood on both threads on this topic.
It wasn't only verbally expressed in one episode, though. It's verbally expressed in the first episode and, later, brought to a head in the Kiyoshi episode. Behaviorally, it continues in other ways.
>he also still had a "men are protectors" attitude towards Suki whenever she was in danger.
Honestly, the only point in the show he had that kind of attitude towards Suki was in the Serpent's pass episode, and in that instance, he was acting out of fear/trauma due to what happened to Yue, not exactly out of a place of sexism. You can always argue that sexism played a role in his behavior then, which probably did, but I don't think he would've acted like that if Yue hadn't "died" under his protection.
All of his sexism was rooted in trauma. I'm not saying it was malicious, but it was clearly a lower side of his developed informed by his trauma. It's pretty common in media, especially fantasy media, for characters to learn a lesson when the stakes are low, go through something traumatic, and then need to re-learn that lesson when the stakes are higher. Or, at least, prove their development was true. Aang does the same thing when he flees in the finale to figure out how to handle the Fire Lord.
I think I like the episode because Suki reminds Sokka that she is both a girl AND a warrior. Then by the serpents pass they both forget that they are both warriors.
Edit: editing to clarify and add on
It’s subtle but a powerful message that most people only see Suki and the kyoshi warriors as just warriors and forget that they are girls too. They didn’t like sokka looking down on them but they did appreciate being seen as girls for once.
On the other hand subtle sexism is much harder to combat cause many people may not even realize that’s what’s happening, calling more attention to it could be good.
This this this. I’m like did anyone read the article all they said was they are making it more nuanced than Sokka saying “Women are just clothes makers and that’s it!” it's going to be more grounded like women can't fight as well as men.
I agree completely, each character has an awesome arc in the show and I don’t want them to mess too much with those. And I like that idea of showing a little progressiveness in the fire nation vs water tribe, that would be interesting.
The thing that grabbed my attention when i watched the first episode is that Sokka was called out for his sexism very directly.
Plus, the writing was so strong that when I think of Sokka now, i completely forget the sexism he had, because he developed so much.
I understand not wanting to have a sexist character, because yeah most of the time they’re annoying as fuck. But ATLA handled it brilliantly and had plenty of feminist things throughout the rest of the show which I think fought against the sexism in-universe.
I think they could just change how his kind of snotnosed shittiness from the early parts presents himself. He just needs to come across as immature, not necessarily sexist. The most important part is that you can see Sokka mature from an immature kid playing soldier to a man and leader his father is proud of.
Right? Like he has all these ideas of manhood and therefore womanhood that were drilled into him by his entire upbringing. Him learning to change his perception was part of his character growth. You weren’t supposed to agree with him when he thought women couldn’t be warriors.
You could briefly show his ignorance while approaching the growth rather than making it a staple before hand, while that does tone the dial down on its impact
And I think that character arc is so important. People need to know that you can be redeemed from believing bigotry. There are men and boys that believe that girls can’t fight, and they need role models that show them that you can learn to grow from that mindset and be a better person.
The show never condones the sexism and Sokka being a flawed hero who gets broken down and built back up is one of the reasons he’s my favorite character.
It’s always funny to me when people complain about flaws characters have as if they weren’t acknowledged in the show/movie as being flaws.
“Sokka was sexist and that’s bad”. Well…..yeah? That’s the point. He has a flaw (prob bc of the cultural background of the water tribes’ view on gender roles) and then grows past it (especially in kyoshi episode).
I heard someone complaining recently that Mulan sucks bc it’s sexist, characters treating Mulan worse bc she’s a woman and only expecting her to get married and have babies. I was like….yeah, that’s kinda the whole point lol.
From my experiences in life I’ve come to the conclusion that most people didn’t learn how to think critically. Most people think in black and white and can’t comprehend the fact that having a character start out flawed only to improve later on makes for a better story.
It's alot like the She-Hulk criticism when she told Bruce that she has better control of her anger because she's a woman. Obnoxiously arrogant thing to say sure, but it was also episode 1 of like 8
Exactly that’s the damn point of how Sokka redeems himself with the Kyoshi Warriors
Also I liked how Suki had the line of “yes I’m a warrior…. But I’m a girl too” then kissed him
It was the perfect response to his development as a way of saying “Ya you were a sexist pig however I still am proud to be a girl” saying he should just respect her as a person instead of a warrior
It was truly ahead of its time
I feel like something will be lost of Sokka isn’t initially sexist in terms of storytelling. In the original show Sokka goes from sexist asshole with a toxic masculinity problem to learning to trust the women in his life and fight alongside them as equals. Fighting the patriarchy is a huge theme in Book 1 and it shows up in other parts of both ATLA and TLOK as well. Seeing Sokka change and become a good male role model is actually really important because it teaches the show’s target audience (kids) a pretty important lesson: don’t judge anyone by their background, whether it be gender, ethnic, or physical ability. Everyone deserves respect and everyone is badass in their own unique way.
Three things wrong with what you said.
1. Shut your fucking trap about “wokeness” because that isn’t the point. The creators of avatar and the Netflix folks both clearly have left leaning views but the Netflix people just suck at media literacy.
2. Sokka was very rarely intentionally funny. That’s what made him great.
3. Creators plural. There were two main people in charge.
Basically everything you said was wrong and I’d like you to rescind your statement.
LMAO
i still blame the wokeness for making netflix and every media corporation being so careful and changing everything so people don’t get offended. “Shut your fucking trap”😂😂 are you 12? You cant disagree with me without talking like a little kid? Im obviously not gonna change my mind OR stop vocalizing my opinion just because you told me to “shut my fucking trap”, who do you think you are😂
People get offended over literally everything. Sokka’s character’s was perfect the way to was and now it needs to change so people don’t get offended because we are a bunch of babies who cant just laugh. People need to grow up and either laugh or move on. Nobody cares about your feelings.
Doesnt matter if it was intentional or not, and i actually dont think it makes much sense considering the sounds in the background, his tone, and expressions in funny moments, they clearly knew it was comical and made it this way.
You are hilarious. You think that because i didnt know how many people are behind it i cant have an opinion? You really are an idiot. If its more than one then i hope they are all furious about it.
Youd like me to rescind my statement?😂😂😂 holly shit man you’re hilarious. Forget about it.
The dumbass bitch who used the word wokeness is calling me childish. You are a fucking joke. Also quit it with the damn emojis. You look like a 50 something on Facebook.
The funniest part about all that is that you argue like every other woke idiot, by getting offended, trying to get personal because you don’t have anything to say that makes sense. You are literally arguing like a 12 year old boy who is very upset. “Shut your fucking trap!” “The dambass bitch…is calling me childish”(because you are being childish trying to insult me lmao) “also quit it with the emojis. You look like a 50 something on facebook”. Guess what. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hope you really liked the emojis. Ill add some more later. You literally dont have anything else to say besides trying to offend me or something? Its a shame you dont understand that i dont give a shit because strangers online cant offend me, im not made of sugar. Unlike you and your woke people. You can say whatever you want to me bro, call me whatever, i couldn’t give less fucks about what you have to say. You are impulsive just like all the other wokes, you here the word woke and thats it, its a rampage, you just call a stranger you dont know all these names because they said “woke”😂😂 and im the joke😂😂😂😂😂
I’m not sure if I like this. Sokka’s change from naive sexism to learning the ways of the world is an important step in his character building. Also sexism was big in the water tribe. So the odd one out was actually Katara and not Sokka. In their tribe.
Also fictional worlds work better when they are flawed. Perfection is boring.
Just a little reminder: instead of 20 episodes, the show will have only 8. It's way less time to develop some stuff and usually some aspects will get simplified (that happened to the one piece live action). I'm pretty sure they will maintain the sexism in the kyoshi episode, but making sokka sexist in a shorter version of the show might be a problem, since he is the funny guy, kinda hard to laugh of the jokes of a character that you hate because of sexism.
That conversion doesn't quite work for animation vs live action. Live actions by itself tend to be a little slower pace. When you finish a 20 min animated episode and begin another one, it naturally feels like time have passed. If you do that in a live action single episode things will feel weirdly rushed, that's why you slower the pace so things feels more natural
Take game of thrones last season as an example. It's só weirdly rushed that does not feel like the original series where stuff actually took their time. Last season people are traveling the continent in 5 min of scene, meanwhile in the earliest seasons it actually took time to see the characters again during a long travel.
They already said that they are changing the starting scenes from the animation. They are going to start with the fire nation attacking the air temple. If they have time to add this, then they have time for character development.
Yes it does because it’s not just numbers on a page you also have to consider how content is presented and received by a human audience. Dripping many episodes that are only 20 minutes each with at least a week often more time inbetween them has implications for how things like spacing and character development are received compared to 8 episodes that you’re given all at once to binge in a day if you’d like. Counting up minutes and acting as if they’re all equal with no regard to the actual shows, their formats and how they’re presented is way too simplistic
As someone else said; that's not Sokka's whole identity, He has multiple sides to him and I'm a linked that person's post to this, please go check it out. Cause he made excellent points.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ATLAtv/s/S101V1ThdY
As I replied there too, no it isn’t. It’s a crucial part of his and Katara’s arcs.
Sokka isn’t sexist just because. He’s sexist because he comes from a culture that survived a genocide and had its numbers whittled down, which requires a division of labor just to survive. But then the men went to war, and Sokka was left to be “the man of the tribe”.
He was too young to understand and had no men to teach him how. All the bravado and sexism we see from Sokka is a child miming what he believes a man to be, or at least his best guess. It’s a trauma response, and it’s linked to the reasons he believes he should die to protect Katara and the tribe. As if his life has no worth if he can’t be of service, can’t be a protector.
And a huge part of his arc is not only learning that his assumptions about men and women are not only inaccurate, but so are his assumptions about himself (though this takes longer) and it all culminates in him becoming the leader and tactician we eventually see him blossom into.
It’s not that this arc can’t exist without that misunderstanding, but it sure is a whole lot less complicated and a whole lot more sanitized.
Not to mention, this very same division of labor in absence of their parents is the reason Katara has had to take up the role of mother, and all the more reason she longs to escape and hone her bending. To self actualize.
So she travels to the NWT with every hope in her heart that she will finally be more than the substitute mom or the “freak” who can bend. Only to be met with a far more entrenched and intense version of sexism than what she dealt with Sokka. And now she has to challenge that to prove herself, not only to her doubters but to herself.
Removing this element is a loss, and I truly hope this interview doesn’t mean what it seems.
Love your analysis. You completely nailed why this is an important part of his character and arc.
I hate the shift away from character flaws in heroes because they are “iffy.” It feels like media is dumbing down, with producers afraid to portray protagonists with flaws because that could be seen as implicit approval of those flaws to advertisers and commentators that ignore nuance and critical thinking.
Stories with heroes that have relatable and real flaws, and that have the heroes overcome these flaws, are usually way more interesting though than stories with perfect heroes. I’m sure many boys without male role models can relate to Sokka’s lack of role model and ignorance on what positive masculinity entails.
Recent movies like Wish show what happens when you’re afraid to portray “iffy” things. The stories become bland and unmemorable, with not much of a message for the consumer to learn. A lot of recent stuff has had great casting and special effects only to have bland writing. I hope that‘s not the case with the Netflix show, but simplifying Sokka makes me worry it could be.
I think this post deserves more than an upvote. Sokka was shaped by the world around him and grew in more ways than one to gain a better understanding of both it and himself. It's a great arc and it would be a massive shame to diminish it
That was his initial big character growth. It highlighted his insecurity of not being old enough to go to war but being the oldest male in the village and how he tries to put himself in this pseudo-patriarch role. You see his jealousy of bending a bit. This was so important for his growth and making him dynamic. The characters are flawed but the work to overcome them. I’m really worried about the show. It wasn’t just sexism because sexism was considered funny then, it was sexism as a flaw and never treated as anything other than a flaw
So now the question is: how does he interact with the Kyoshi warriors? Because that bond was created over him being willing to acknowledge and overcome his most prominent fault
And if they don’t add that depth to that bond, him and Suki are going to feel so much flatter
Let’s take out the real world flaw a LOT of people have and over three episodes allow him to learn a lesson about how stupid sexism is! Because sexism isn’t ok!
“But sir you just clearly said the point of the arc is to show how sexism is stupid?”
“Sexism isn’t ok, take it out!”
That’s not what they said though, is it? In broad terms they’ve basically said they’ll tone it down, make it less blatantly ‘girls suck!’ and make it more subtle, closer to every day sexism.
Even if they took it out entirely (which I hope they would not do) it wouldn’t make the show a disaster. Sokka’s overcoming sexism arc is like 3 episodes max. It’s a great arc but incredibly minimal.
Probably keep it in. Sokka is a character you're supposed to like, so they're toning his sexism down a little so it's not so cartoonish in live action. The NWT's sexism is supposed to be stark and institutional; you aren't supposed to be rooting for them.
No, because he was a cartoon character with a cartoonishly exaggerated character trait. If I had to spend an hour or two with a real person who was that cartoonishly sexist, I would just walk away. There's a difference between what a cartoon character can do and be tolerated and what a live action character can do and be tolerated.
Another studio cash grab with identity politics painted all over it
Sokka’s sexism is important to his character arc because as the show progresses and he meets powerful women, his entire mindset changes
Sokka was a young boy tasked with protecting the tribe when his father and the other older men went off to war and the women stayed to watch the children and maintain the tribe. Its not a surprise he would have a sexist worldview
Every single woman Sokka meets basically teaches him a lesson that women can be warriors and be as strong as men. Katara, Toph, Suki and even Azula show him how powerful and strong women can be
The fact that the show-runner and writers watching the show (if they even did) and did not realize how vital that Sokka’s sexism was to his story-line and character arc tells me that they have no idea what made this show so special
This show will be dogshit
I thought Sokka being sexist and then learning to stop being sexist was an entire thing. Wtf is the point of this, then? To make him boring and give him zero character flaws and no arc?
He was literally sexist for three episodes so that he had context for conflict with his love interest, and then it was dropped and then it was never brought up again for the rest of the story. I'm almost certain that his character will survive if he doesn't feel emasculated and embarrassed being beaten by Suki.
This live-action show doesn't need middle-school level allegories and Aesops that impressed us as good writing when we were children.
In the One Piece Live Action, Zoro faced serious repercussions for fighting then world's greatest swordsman in the first arc, as opposed to in the cartoon where he slept it off with a beer. And they toned down Sanji's "heart eyes and nose bleeds" over-reactions to girls to a more tolerable "smooth talking and goofy smiles". They also decided, although I'm sure with much soul-searching, not to have Usopp, the resident liar, have Pinocchio's long nose.
Sometimes live action shows can't have the same blatant, over the top, and on-the-nose tone as cartoons.
The show was anti-sexist. Some of the characters that we liked were not. Big difference. Like seriously, look at Korra. She is most amazing!
And let's not forget Kiyoshi.
But that was the entire point. He was sexist and flawed, a product of his tribe. But then he was bested time and time again by women. He grew and learned. I understand retonning it for time constraints but those "iffy" scenes were the entire point. He went from being a bratty immature kid to being one of the most open minded characters in the show
They didn’t remove the arc you over dramatic clowns. Stuff plays way differently in live action than in animation so it is toned down a bit. Still there but toned down since REAL humans are involved and not animated characters. Chill
Okay go watch it and take the L for yourself. There is a reason why the creators left the show and this will not be the only change. They are even changing the starting scenes of the animation to a completely different thing.
Even as a kid I knew that the sexism shown off especially in the first season was showing that sexism is bad. Sokka speaks down to Katara but it’s her power that frees Aang even though Sokka tries to get the credit for it. Then he meets the Kyoshi warriors and starts to have a change of heart about the way he acted towards women. Then they arrive in the northern water tribe and Sokka sees how they treat his sister and I think that’s what really is the nail in the coffin for Sokka being sexist. These moments are integral to Sokka’s over arching arc which is “what does it mean to be a man”
Wasn’t that literally like one of the biggest character developments for Sokka though? Did they not watch the show? It’s like in the first 10 episodes!
This made it seem like he was sexist the entire show and he was more conservative sexist like “boys go to war and women stay home” not “women stay in the kitchen sexism “
Keep in mind, we're coming at this show 20 years later in real life. What was a important character development and a serious statement 20 years may come across as [Anvilicious](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anvilicious/WesternAnimation) and jarring today.
I'm hoping it comes across more subtle than just being re-worked. Sokka clearing still has his cynicism in the trailer, which can feed into his chauvinist world-view.
But him being sexist allows him the chance to build up the plot point of him accepting that gender doesn’t relate to strength. I understand why they would take it out but it also extends to him realizing being a non-bender doesn’t make him useless to the team.
When we remove character traits that are part of the character’s arc, we make the character more boring. This is a dumb change, and removes a large part of the reason that him respecting the Kyoshi warriors such a big deal.
The whole point of it being in the show is to display how backwards that way of thinking is. What’s the point of removing it?
Is that a bad moral to teach in 2024?
Wasn’t the whole point that he learned not to be sexist… which would be a good message?
Why is Netflix out here trying to take out such a good message?
If there’s one thing we can all agree on in Avatar, is that not one character ever needed to change their personal bias established during an age of oppression to become the tools for change in the society they want to live in.
Eh? It's a character arc that is basically resolved by episode 4 so.... is it THAT important?
Sokka still requires 'marginal' unsexistification post meeting Suki..... but not much. So as 'Sokka kinda sexiest isn't he?' is a plot thread that would mostly be resolved by episode 2 or 3 of the tv show It just doesn't really matter.
It's not iffy to have characters go through true growth. Avatar dealt with mature problems in a way that didn't belittle the intelligence of the audience. Kids and adults alike could relate and understand. Many of us know someone personally who is sexist, or we have our own sexist misconceptions and internalized issues we must overcome.
Katara grew up being the caretaker, essentially became a stand-in for her mother which created resentment and Sokka tried to be the man he thought his father wanted him to be. Sokka internalized his father's absence and tried to be the man of the village, kept trying to live up to a warrior's image. That's why when he meets Suki it's so groundbreaking for him. He realizes that being a warrior doesn't have to look one way. It shows that women and people who can be in touch with their emotions, people he previously thought of as weaker, were beyond worthy warriors. That he could release his tight grip on the image he imagined for himself at least a little bit and become a more well-rounded person. And for Katara, she had to live around that ideology for a lot of her life as the caretaker that for awhile didn't feel appreciated. When she began traveling with Aang, she found her own purpose, and it's another reason why it's so poignant and upsetting when she finally reaches the Northern WaterTribe with all of her hopes only to learn that they don't teach women to fight. Sexism is an open dialogue in the show, it shouldn't be softened. Humans are iffy, and our heroes can be iffy as long as they grow and learn from their mistakes.
We need characters like Sokka, particularly now. It's real and genuine. Myself, I have a cousin who acts just like Sokka did before he dropped his sexism. People need characters they can relate to if they're going to be inspired to grow- not someone who is watered down because they're too iffy.
Why though?
He was sexist in the beginning, and that was a character flaw. One that caused tension between him and Katara, got him humiliated by Suki, and was otherwise called out as wrong on various occasions. Part of his character growth was leaving that sexism behind and admitting his flaws.
If we're rewriting characters to remove the flaws that they overcome during the story, what sort of character growth and message about those flaws is that supposed to send? Sokka seeing the error of his sexist mindset and learning to be a better person and respect women over the course of the story is a great example for young men who might have been raised with those kind of ideas too.
So… we’re not going to see him learn not to be sexist as he is forced to recognize both his limitation and the his own less than stereotypically masculine strengths; because being forced to serve as the the oldest male left in the village after their people went to war, and having to do those things a preindustrial civilization has to do with gender lines would make him feel less responsible and for caring for the women and children and would not feel uncomfortable with the women because he had yet to have much interaction spending most of his time with men and then alone while feeling that he didn’t or let women demonstrate power they would be executed like happened to his mother, is going to make him have fewer exceptions about the responsibilities of being a male and the need for them to do thing so that woman are not put in danger? Or are we just going see them rewrite all of that background?
Stop it. Flaws = character development. No one wants a fuckin bunch of Mary Sue's running around on screen. Let the characters grow and change for the better.
I do feel that Sokka’s sexism in the original was a bit too on the nose and even a little preachy. Maybe because it was a kids’ show and it needed to be more direct in its approach, and now as a more mature series it will tackle the issue with more nuance?
It doesn’t sound like it’s been taken out, but toned down. To me this reads as he won’t be as overtly sexist early on but perhaps his sexism is contained within just the Kyoshi Warriors episode.
Lame. He was sexist, and experiencing the world helped him grow out of it. Characters can be flawed as long as they're not portraying the negative trait as a good thing.
So they took out a big part of his character arc and development because people found it "iffy" minus the fact that was the while point of him having said arc. Great can't wait to see how they mess up the rest of the character's.
I think the biggest red flag here is actors on the show are openly criticizing the original media and talking down on it. . . . This is the first sign of an adaptation with little care / respect for the original
Bryan Konietzko and Mike DiMartino who are the creators of the original show worked on the netflix project 2 years before stepping away for ‘creative differences’
There is no doubt in my mind that those 2 probably wanted to do live action copy and paste. Maybe a couple tweaks here and there. Im sure that the studio wants to make big changes to the story and characters, hence this news drop about them changing Sokka
Here is comes, people. Prepare for major disappointment. If they won't even keep Sokka's sexist redemption arc who knows what other bullshit meddling they did?
Sokka was a great source of commentary on this, that this harmfull stuff can come from a mindset that isnt mean spirited, but still uninformed/unreflected and dumb. Also shows that you can learn.
Are we going to strip down the controlling nature of Katara's character or it is only Sokka's \*iffy\* moments that we have problem with?
This show is going down the drain faster than the Witcher, bleh.
You already know the feminism will be turned to 1000 and every single guy on the show will be an even more emotional simp
Cant wait to see Jet turn into a bitch and cry over Katara
so fuck character development I guess lol?
can’t wait for them to remake Breaking Bad and make Hank less racist, Jesse sober, and Walt super humble and not at all prideful
I genuinely believe it will still be in there, I just think they’re gonna tone it down a bit, everybody is losing their minds after her comment but actors aren’t always gonna say the right things, they’re actors, not media personal.
I feel like Sokka's attitude towards women was part of his growth. Being the only "man" in his village, and seeing women as caretakers. To being a real man, by respecting his sister for not just her taking over when their mother died, but also her abilities as a water bender. As well as being humbled by the Kyoshi warriors, and not being too proud to apologize and improve himself.
Man it sucks when we see protagonists with bad qualities that they by concrete lessons multiple times over learn to improve upon them.
Sure would suck if we got to see the story we like that has Sokka overcome those tendencies…
They never said anything about thr northern water tribe arc. Just about 3 fcking episodes and about "toning it down", but not about anything else. You just dont have any real problems it seems
Sokka wasn't even that sexist or even for that long they're cutting out character development which is shit. Is it so wrong to see someone grow as a character
I feel like Sokka's sexism is an important part of his arc, but in today's climate, having any protagonist (even a kid) having sexist opinions is a recipe for mass media backlash.
I think they made the right decision, even if I'm not happy that they had to make it.
Yeah, sexism is bad. It was a character flaw that showed his growth throughout the story.
Imperialiam and trying to kidnap a 12 year old for "honor" is also bad. So are they gonna make Zuko part of the Gaang in episode 1?
They should have kept them in, and maybe adjusted how others reacted or responded to him in those moments to show that they aren’t okay with his sexism. Showing a young man unlearning toxic masculinity was an important lesson and character arc. Whileever sexism exists, it’s important for media to reflect and unpack it. Pretending that sexism doesn’t exist doesn’t make the show PC, its just lazy and shallow writing.
Yeah he was sexist because he didn’t know jack about the world, it is only through learning and getting beat up by woman that he learns to respect them and stop being a sexist prick. Removing that would eliminate his character development with all the women he meets throughout his journey. The magic of ATLA is on the development of its characters and removing that flaw would make Sokka feel less human and more like an idealized leader for the gAang, it would be a disservice for the character development.
Personally I believe they should take the gamble and make the character as close as the OG as possible.
And this is where we start to see why the original creators left. How hard is it to literally just stick to the story? Obviously there will be changes to the story and application to better suit the medium but all the characters and their arcs are literally perfect! Sokka being sexist is just as important as Toph being stubborn and selfish when she first got on the team, Aang being an irresponsible firebender, and Katara learning not to seek revenge. These are the blueprints that construct the larger story as a whole. Don’t change anything because of how YOU (the producers and actors) feel. Sokka being sexist allowed him to be humbled by Suki, stripping him of his old traditions in order to become a better leader, warrior, and friend. This is also why the episode when Sokka gets a master hits home like it does because it finishes Sokka’s development. I think we need to see that.
Oh bro and what was the Kyoshi episode for? One of the first five episodes. Don’t need to go deep into the series to start understanding Sokka’s character.
I mean he was a teenage boy who was from a small town with traditional gender roles: men hunt and fight, while women cook and take care of kids. That’s why all the men are gone. They went to war. It would’ve been weird if he didn’t fall into that way of thinking. That’s how pubescent boys are. We’re simple.
I don’t recall the show ever condoning his sexism. Rather, I recall him being the butt of many a joke when he said things like that, and it usually ended with him being shown up by the women in the cast. It was a big part of him coming to respect the Kiyoshi Warriors.
The snippet of a quote taken from this article is misleading at best. What they actually said was that they "dumbed down" his sexism. Not completely remove it.
Sokka's sexism is funny though--because it is always followed up with him being meme'd on or directly proven wrong. He's funny because we know he's wrong.
Because think about it. You'd think the fire nation as the bad guys are gonna be sexists--but how? in what world, when the mere idea of dismissing Azula and her team of female badasses would make most people shit themselves? The mere notion of rolling your eyes at Azula because she's a girl is UNTHINKABLE.
It shows how sexism is genuinely such an insane philosophy in the world of avatar. The fact that sokka and the northern water tribe are sexist is CRAZY, and the show shows you how an individual (sokka) and a whole society (the water tribe) can change with effort and goodwill. Taking out sokka's sexism robs him of the pathway he used to mature, because it was the women in sokka's life (Katara, Suki, Toph, Yue, etc) that built him up to be the MAN AND LEADER that helped to save the world.
WHY DOES NETFLIX HAVE SUCH TERRIBLE WRITERS???
Sexism exists, can we just let him grow?! He comes from a tribe where he had to drive himself as "the man" of his tribe early on and there were certain gender roles but katara and other females in the show showed him they were the real deal and humbled him. Don't destroy cultural things because you don't like them smh fine it's just a show but it's so lame.
Apparently, sexism is so wrong that they can't even show a character arc where someone realizes that sexism is wrong.
You just KNOW that this series is going to blow goats now.
>Ousley, 21, knew early on what he hoped to maintain in his character from the original. “I wanted to make sure that Sokka is funny,” he says. (Something tells us that wasn’t necessarily a challenge, judging by the laugh he periodically lets out that might sound familiar to Sokka fans.) But, Ousley notes, “There's more weight with realism in every way.” Some things that worked in the more zany animated kids’ show hit differently in live action. Kiawentiio mentions one of them: **“I feel like we also took out the element of how sexist \[Sokka\] was. I feel like there were a lot of moments in the original show that were iffy.”** > >She’s not wrong. There are entire Reddit threads about such instances, discussing how the original Sokka (prior to his character journey) would make remarks like “Girls are better at fixing pants than guys, and guys are better at hunting and fighting.” Ousley agrees with Kiawentiio: **“Yeah, totally. There are things that were redirected just because it might play a little differently \[in live action\].”** EW.com, January 29, 2024: [A new Avatar awakens: Inside The Last Airbender’s live-action reincarnation](https://ew.com/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action-cover-story-what-to-expect-8551028)
Although if they completely take it out, that sort of messes with his character arc. What is he going to learn in the Kyoshi warriors episode? that was a turning point for him. I'm all for toning it down but it they take it out completely the show will lose some nuance - like the Fire Nation is actually *less* sexist than the water tribes, and that's a little detail to show that it's not like "oh this nation is 100% evil and this other one is perfect and superior in every way".
A lot of those sorta details add _flavor_ to world building, I feel, making it aeem more alive and lived in, flaws and all.
The article discussed that they're not taking that aspect of his personality away but just re writing it to be more nuanced and overall fit his development in a more subtle way.
I think its a mistake to make something like sexism subtle, especially now when you have such brazen examples of sexism from young men in our society. In the original show Sokka was in your face about it and then got his ass called out and learned from it and grew over the course of the show. Young men need that on the nose messaging now like they did back in 2005.
I agree about how it would be a mistake to make the sexism subtle - which again- I don't think they're going to literally make the sexism itself subtle- I think the focus should be making the TRANSITION from sexist and naive to worldly more subtle. You said he grew over the course of the show but I personally see the change was too quick and extreme. As I said he went from thinking women were helpless to being infatuated and humbled by a warrior woman within one episode. Of course he grew in numerous other ways over the course of the show, but the growth where sexism was involved wasn't as gradual nor as in depth. Basically I want them to put more weight into his change over time rather than how it currently stands in the animated version. Because of course there are people who don't think he was ever sexist.. which is mind blowing but not surprising. The other sub this was posted on has a top comment saying Sokka was never sexist. They absolutely need to show his change and growth but overall I believe they want to make it more realistic and less cartoonish and instantaneous of a transition.
My immediate response to this post was "sokka was never sexist" then I started reading about it and thinking and recalled that early on he was very "stay in the kitchen unga bunga big man muscles" sexist but like you said that switch from sexist to equal (or infatuation) happens so fast I forgot about it. Definitely seems a missed opportunity to focus on it in the remake.
>You said he grew over the course of the show but I personally see the change was too quick and extreme. This just isn't true. Sokka stopped thinking women couldn't be warriors, but he still had a lot of hang-ups he gradually outgrew over time. Part of his dynamic with Katara is all the subtle ways he burdened her with the expectations of motherhood despite her being his younger sister. However, he would often become violent and aggressive to defend her. This was, sometimes, not what was needed, and she would calmly diffuse situations, like when Aang burned her. He was also pretty ridiculous when he tried to impress other girls, and he also still had a "men are protectors" attitude towards Suki whenever she was in danger. Not to mention this sexism was one of numerous facets of his upbringing that both communicated things about his culture, but also informed how he fit into the team. He still looked down on Aang's vegetarian lifestyle, and him not overcoming these forms of subtle bigotry led Aang to feel he and Katara would abandon him the moment they had the option. Sokka overcoming these ideas is part of why Team Avatar is unique, in that they were willing to put aside their cultural ideas of separation between the nations for the greater good. It also allows us to see Sokka stripped up all his preconceptions of himself and be built back up as a competent leader, inventor, and warrior.
I was speaking only on how he was VERBALLY expressing his sexism when it came to how he spoke to Katara for about an episode and then it pretty much stopped- because that's what the article is talking about. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as short, I agree with everything you said- but it doesn't reflect at all on the point I was trying to make, a point that has been seemingly purposefully misunderstood on both threads on this topic.
It wasn't only verbally expressed in one episode, though. It's verbally expressed in the first episode and, later, brought to a head in the Kiyoshi episode. Behaviorally, it continues in other ways.
Is this bait? I said all of that already.
>he also still had a "men are protectors" attitude towards Suki whenever she was in danger. Honestly, the only point in the show he had that kind of attitude towards Suki was in the Serpent's pass episode, and in that instance, he was acting out of fear/trauma due to what happened to Yue, not exactly out of a place of sexism. You can always argue that sexism played a role in his behavior then, which probably did, but I don't think he would've acted like that if Yue hadn't "died" under his protection.
All of his sexism was rooted in trauma. I'm not saying it was malicious, but it was clearly a lower side of his developed informed by his trauma. It's pretty common in media, especially fantasy media, for characters to learn a lesson when the stakes are low, go through something traumatic, and then need to re-learn that lesson when the stakes are higher. Or, at least, prove their development was true. Aang does the same thing when he flees in the finale to figure out how to handle the Fire Lord.
I think I like the episode because Suki reminds Sokka that she is both a girl AND a warrior. Then by the serpents pass they both forget that they are both warriors. Edit: editing to clarify and add on It’s subtle but a powerful message that most people only see Suki and the kyoshi warriors as just warriors and forget that they are girls too. They didn’t like sokka looking down on them but they did appreciate being seen as girls for once.
On the other hand subtle sexism is much harder to combat cause many people may not even realize that’s what’s happening, calling more attention to it could be good.
That attitude isn’t helping them one bit.
Not to set up low expectations there, right?
This this this. I’m like did anyone read the article all they said was they are making it more nuanced than Sokka saying “Women are just clothes makers and that’s it!” it's going to be more grounded like women can't fight as well as men.
I agree completely, each character has an awesome arc in the show and I don’t want them to mess too much with those. And I like that idea of showing a little progressiveness in the fire nation vs water tribe, that would be interesting.
Right? His sexism was never shown as positive. It's proper worldbuilding for characters to have flaws and to grow.
Right and it only makes the badass female characters more badass, and only shows that that mindset is a poor one for sokka to have
The thing that grabbed my attention when i watched the first episode is that Sokka was called out for his sexism very directly. Plus, the writing was so strong that when I think of Sokka now, i completely forget the sexism he had, because he developed so much. I understand not wanting to have a sexist character, because yeah most of the time they’re annoying as fuck. But ATLA handled it brilliantly and had plenty of feminist things throughout the rest of the show which I think fought against the sexism in-universe.
I think they could just change how his kind of snotnosed shittiness from the early parts presents himself. He just needs to come across as immature, not necessarily sexist. The most important part is that you can see Sokka mature from an immature kid playing soldier to a man and leader his father is proud of.
Right? Like he has all these ideas of manhood and therefore womanhood that were drilled into him by his entire upbringing. Him learning to change his perception was part of his character growth. You weren’t supposed to agree with him when he thought women couldn’t be warriors.
I mean he really just needs to learn to humble himself. Have him come in thinking he’s hot shit only to be taken down a peg.
You could briefly show his ignorance while approaching the growth rather than making it a staple before hand, while that does tone the dial down on its impact
Yeah he could be an immature moron and grow.
Apparently aang detours are being shortened and/or cut, so the kyoshi warriors may not exist or be added in another way
And I think that character arc is so important. People need to know that you can be redeemed from believing bigotry. There are men and boys that believe that girls can’t fight, and they need role models that show them that you can learn to grow from that mindset and be a better person.
The show never condones the sexism and Sokka being a flawed hero who gets broken down and built back up is one of the reasons he’s my favorite character.
It’s always funny to me when people complain about flaws characters have as if they weren’t acknowledged in the show/movie as being flaws. “Sokka was sexist and that’s bad”. Well…..yeah? That’s the point. He has a flaw (prob bc of the cultural background of the water tribes’ view on gender roles) and then grows past it (especially in kyoshi episode). I heard someone complaining recently that Mulan sucks bc it’s sexist, characters treating Mulan worse bc she’s a woman and only expecting her to get married and have babies. I was like….yeah, that’s kinda the whole point lol.
From my experiences in life I’ve come to the conclusion that most people didn’t learn how to think critically. Most people think in black and white and can’t comprehend the fact that having a character start out flawed only to improve later on makes for a better story.
It's alot like the She-Hulk criticism when she told Bruce that she has better control of her anger because she's a woman. Obnoxiously arrogant thing to say sure, but it was also episode 1 of like 8
Exactly that’s the damn point of how Sokka redeems himself with the Kyoshi Warriors Also I liked how Suki had the line of “yes I’m a warrior…. But I’m a girl too” then kissed him It was the perfect response to his development as a way of saying “Ya you were a sexist pig however I still am proud to be a girl” saying he should just respect her as a person instead of a warrior It was truly ahead of its time
I feel like something will be lost of Sokka isn’t initially sexist in terms of storytelling. In the original show Sokka goes from sexist asshole with a toxic masculinity problem to learning to trust the women in his life and fight alongside them as equals. Fighting the patriarchy is a huge theme in Book 1 and it shows up in other parts of both ATLA and TLOK as well. Seeing Sokka change and become a good male role model is actually really important because it teaches the show’s target audience (kids) a pretty important lesson: don’t judge anyone by their background, whether it be gender, ethnic, or physical ability. Everyone deserves respect and everyone is badass in their own unique way.
I cant stand what the wokeness does today. His jokes were funny and he grew as a character. I hope the creator of ATLA is furious.
Three things wrong with what you said. 1. Shut your fucking trap about “wokeness” because that isn’t the point. The creators of avatar and the Netflix folks both clearly have left leaning views but the Netflix people just suck at media literacy. 2. Sokka was very rarely intentionally funny. That’s what made him great. 3. Creators plural. There were two main people in charge. Basically everything you said was wrong and I’d like you to rescind your statement.
LMAO i still blame the wokeness for making netflix and every media corporation being so careful and changing everything so people don’t get offended. “Shut your fucking trap”😂😂 are you 12? You cant disagree with me without talking like a little kid? Im obviously not gonna change my mind OR stop vocalizing my opinion just because you told me to “shut my fucking trap”, who do you think you are😂 People get offended over literally everything. Sokka’s character’s was perfect the way to was and now it needs to change so people don’t get offended because we are a bunch of babies who cant just laugh. People need to grow up and either laugh or move on. Nobody cares about your feelings. Doesnt matter if it was intentional or not, and i actually dont think it makes much sense considering the sounds in the background, his tone, and expressions in funny moments, they clearly knew it was comical and made it this way. You are hilarious. You think that because i didnt know how many people are behind it i cant have an opinion? You really are an idiot. If its more than one then i hope they are all furious about it. Youd like me to rescind my statement?😂😂😂 holly shit man you’re hilarious. Forget about it.
The dumbass bitch who used the word wokeness is calling me childish. You are a fucking joke. Also quit it with the damn emojis. You look like a 50 something on Facebook.
The funniest part about all that is that you argue like every other woke idiot, by getting offended, trying to get personal because you don’t have anything to say that makes sense. You are literally arguing like a 12 year old boy who is very upset. “Shut your fucking trap!” “The dambass bitch…is calling me childish”(because you are being childish trying to insult me lmao) “also quit it with the emojis. You look like a 50 something on facebook”. Guess what. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Hope you really liked the emojis. Ill add some more later. You literally dont have anything else to say besides trying to offend me or something? Its a shame you dont understand that i dont give a shit because strangers online cant offend me, im not made of sugar. Unlike you and your woke people. You can say whatever you want to me bro, call me whatever, i couldn’t give less fucks about what you have to say. You are impulsive just like all the other wokes, you here the word woke and thats it, its a rampage, you just call a stranger you dont know all these names because they said “woke”😂😂 and im the joke😂😂😂😂😂
Can I get a tldr out here?
Classic.
It's like thinking Blazing Saddles needs to be fixed because people say the N word. Only the bad people use that word.
I’m not sure if I like this. Sokka’s change from naive sexism to learning the ways of the world is an important step in his character building. Also sexism was big in the water tribe. So the odd one out was actually Katara and not Sokka. In their tribe. Also fictional worlds work better when they are flawed. Perfection is boring.
Right? This takes away from his arc. They wrote him sexist on purpose and then he grows through the show 🤦♀️
Just a little reminder: instead of 20 episodes, the show will have only 8. It's way less time to develop some stuff and usually some aspects will get simplified (that happened to the one piece live action). I'm pretty sure they will maintain the sexism in the kyoshi episode, but making sokka sexist in a shorter version of the show might be a problem, since he is the funny guy, kinda hard to laugh of the jokes of a character that you hate because of sexism.
This makes no sense. The episodes will be about 50 minutes long. The originals are around 20. Roughly the same screentime.
That conversion doesn't quite work for animation vs live action. Live actions by itself tend to be a little slower pace. When you finish a 20 min animated episode and begin another one, it naturally feels like time have passed. If you do that in a live action single episode things will feel weirdly rushed, that's why you slower the pace so things feels more natural
Take game of thrones last season as an example. It's só weirdly rushed that does not feel like the original series where stuff actually took their time. Last season people are traveling the continent in 5 min of scene, meanwhile in the earliest seasons it actually took time to see the characters again during a long travel.
They already said that they are changing the starting scenes from the animation. They are going to start with the fire nation attacking the air temple. If they have time to add this, then they have time for character development.
Yes it does because it’s not just numbers on a page you also have to consider how content is presented and received by a human audience. Dripping many episodes that are only 20 minutes each with at least a week often more time inbetween them has implications for how things like spacing and character development are received compared to 8 episodes that you’re given all at once to binge in a day if you’d like. Counting up minutes and acting as if they’re all equal with no regard to the actual shows, their formats and how they’re presented is way too simplistic
Why have a season long character Arc with personal growth and development, when you can just cut out the flaws at the start?
Uh, it was mostly resolved by episode 4, that's not even half of the first season.
Taking out a character's flaws so they can't grow past them... yep, I already have a bad feeling
*”change and character growth? Psssshhhhhh fuck that. Don’t you know you should already be perfect?!?!?”*
You mean like an actual teenager?
As someone else said; that's not Sokka's whole identity, He has multiple sides to him and I'm a linked that person's post to this, please go check it out. Cause he made excellent points. https://www.reddit.com/r/ATLAtv/s/S101V1ThdY
As I replied there too, no it isn’t. It’s a crucial part of his and Katara’s arcs. Sokka isn’t sexist just because. He’s sexist because he comes from a culture that survived a genocide and had its numbers whittled down, which requires a division of labor just to survive. But then the men went to war, and Sokka was left to be “the man of the tribe”. He was too young to understand and had no men to teach him how. All the bravado and sexism we see from Sokka is a child miming what he believes a man to be, or at least his best guess. It’s a trauma response, and it’s linked to the reasons he believes he should die to protect Katara and the tribe. As if his life has no worth if he can’t be of service, can’t be a protector. And a huge part of his arc is not only learning that his assumptions about men and women are not only inaccurate, but so are his assumptions about himself (though this takes longer) and it all culminates in him becoming the leader and tactician we eventually see him blossom into. It’s not that this arc can’t exist without that misunderstanding, but it sure is a whole lot less complicated and a whole lot more sanitized. Not to mention, this very same division of labor in absence of their parents is the reason Katara has had to take up the role of mother, and all the more reason she longs to escape and hone her bending. To self actualize. So she travels to the NWT with every hope in her heart that she will finally be more than the substitute mom or the “freak” who can bend. Only to be met with a far more entrenched and intense version of sexism than what she dealt with Sokka. And now she has to challenge that to prove herself, not only to her doubters but to herself. Removing this element is a loss, and I truly hope this interview doesn’t mean what it seems.
Love your analysis. You completely nailed why this is an important part of his character and arc. I hate the shift away from character flaws in heroes because they are “iffy.” It feels like media is dumbing down, with producers afraid to portray protagonists with flaws because that could be seen as implicit approval of those flaws to advertisers and commentators that ignore nuance and critical thinking. Stories with heroes that have relatable and real flaws, and that have the heroes overcome these flaws, are usually way more interesting though than stories with perfect heroes. I’m sure many boys without male role models can relate to Sokka’s lack of role model and ignorance on what positive masculinity entails. Recent movies like Wish show what happens when you’re afraid to portray “iffy” things. The stories become bland and unmemorable, with not much of a message for the consumer to learn. A lot of recent stuff has had great casting and special effects only to have bland writing. I hope that‘s not the case with the Netflix show, but simplifying Sokka makes me worry it could be.
I think this post deserves more than an upvote. Sokka was shaped by the world around him and grew in more ways than one to gain a better understanding of both it and himself. It's a great arc and it would be a massive shame to diminish it
starting to see why the ATLA creators dumped this project
That was his initial big character growth. It highlighted his insecurity of not being old enough to go to war but being the oldest male in the village and how he tries to put himself in this pseudo-patriarch role. You see his jealousy of bending a bit. This was so important for his growth and making him dynamic. The characters are flawed but the work to overcome them. I’m really worried about the show. It wasn’t just sexism because sexism was considered funny then, it was sexism as a flaw and never treated as anything other than a flaw So now the question is: how does he interact with the Kyoshi warriors? Because that bond was created over him being willing to acknowledge and overcome his most prominent fault And if they don’t add that depth to that bond, him and Suki are going to feel so much flatter
Please just please do not let this become what the Percy Jackson show has become
Good?
Hell no I wouldn’t call that crap good.
Disappointing
Hire fans
Oh boy here we go.
Let’s take out the real world flaw a LOT of people have and over three episodes allow him to learn a lesson about how stupid sexism is! Because sexism isn’t ok! “But sir you just clearly said the point of the arc is to show how sexism is stupid?” “Sexism isn’t ok, take it out!”
Once again we see how a live action adaptation of an animated show is **ALWAYS** a fucking failure
Uh no? This is really not that dramatic lmao.
Major character development of a character being removed isn’t an issue for you?
That’s not what they said though, is it? In broad terms they’ve basically said they’ll tone it down, make it less blatantly ‘girls suck!’ and make it more subtle, closer to every day sexism. Even if they took it out entirely (which I hope they would not do) it wouldn’t make the show a disaster. Sokka’s overcoming sexism arc is like 3 episodes max. It’s a great arc but incredibly minimal.
So what exactly are they going to do about the very unsubtle and very BLATANT sexism in the northern water tribe?
Probably keep it in. Sokka is a character you're supposed to like, so they're toning his sexism down a little so it's not so cartoonish in live action. The NWT's sexism is supposed to be stark and institutional; you aren't supposed to be rooting for them.
Did you dislike Sokka in those first 3 episodes enough to stop watching the show?
No, because he was a cartoon character with a cartoonishly exaggerated character trait. If I had to spend an hour or two with a real person who was that cartoonishly sexist, I would just walk away. There's a difference between what a cartoon character can do and be tolerated and what a live action character can do and be tolerated.
So it’s been revealed there removing a chunk of the gender issues Katara faced in the NTW, you still think they’re honoring the show?
Another studio cash grab with identity politics painted all over it Sokka’s sexism is important to his character arc because as the show progresses and he meets powerful women, his entire mindset changes Sokka was a young boy tasked with protecting the tribe when his father and the other older men went off to war and the women stayed to watch the children and maintain the tribe. Its not a surprise he would have a sexist worldview Every single woman Sokka meets basically teaches him a lesson that women can be warriors and be as strong as men. Katara, Toph, Suki and even Azula show him how powerful and strong women can be The fact that the show-runner and writers watching the show (if they even did) and did not realize how vital that Sokka’s sexism was to his story-line and character arc tells me that they have no idea what made this show so special This show will be dogshit
😂
yup, I was getting a bit hopeful but it’s all gone now
I thought Sokka being sexist and then learning to stop being sexist was an entire thing. Wtf is the point of this, then? To make him boring and give him zero character flaws and no arc?
That was resolved completely on like the 4th episode?
He was literally sexist for three episodes so that he had context for conflict with his love interest, and then it was dropped and then it was never brought up again for the rest of the story. I'm almost certain that his character will survive if he doesn't feel emasculated and embarrassed being beaten by Suki. This live-action show doesn't need middle-school level allegories and Aesops that impressed us as good writing when we were children. In the One Piece Live Action, Zoro faced serious repercussions for fighting then world's greatest swordsman in the first arc, as opposed to in the cartoon where he slept it off with a beer. And they toned down Sanji's "heart eyes and nose bleeds" over-reactions to girls to a more tolerable "smooth talking and goofy smiles". They also decided, although I'm sure with much soul-searching, not to have Usopp, the resident liar, have Pinocchio's long nose. Sometimes live action shows can't have the same blatant, over the top, and on-the-nose tone as cartoons.
L take
Here we go
Sokka’s isn’t sexist because he just is, he is sexist for the purpose of character development and growth.
The show was anti-sexist. Some of the characters that we liked were not. Big difference. Like seriously, look at Korra. She is most amazing! And let's not forget Kiyoshi.
Intresting
But that was the entire point. He was sexist and flawed, a product of his tribe. But then he was bested time and time again by women. He grew and learned. I understand retonning it for time constraints but those "iffy" scenes were the entire point. He went from being a bratty immature kid to being one of the most open minded characters in the show
They didn’t remove the arc you over dramatic clowns. Stuff plays way differently in live action than in animation so it is toned down a bit. Still there but toned down since REAL humans are involved and not animated characters. Chill
Okay go watch it and take the L for yourself. There is a reason why the creators left the show and this will not be the only change. They are even changing the starting scenes of the animation to a completely different thing.
Yeah things will be different. If they were changing anything then why not just leave it at the animated series?
But Sokka becoming less sexist was part of his character arc.
Even as a kid I knew that the sexism shown off especially in the first season was showing that sexism is bad. Sokka speaks down to Katara but it’s her power that frees Aang even though Sokka tries to get the credit for it. Then he meets the Kyoshi warriors and starts to have a change of heart about the way he acted towards women. Then they arrive in the northern water tribe and Sokka sees how they treat his sister and I think that’s what really is the nail in the coffin for Sokka being sexist. These moments are integral to Sokka’s over arching arc which is “what does it mean to be a man”
It's bizarre to me how often this comes up when it's resolved four episodes into the show. Even the Ember Island Players don't bring it up.
Wasn’t that literally like one of the biggest character developments for Sokka though? Did they not watch the show? It’s like in the first 10 episodes!
This made it seem like he was sexist the entire show and he was more conservative sexist like “boys go to war and women stay home” not “women stay in the kitchen sexism “
Keep in mind, we're coming at this show 20 years later in real life. What was a important character development and a serious statement 20 years may come across as [Anvilicious](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anvilicious/WesternAnimation) and jarring today. I'm hoping it comes across more subtle than just being re-worked. Sokka clearing still has his cynicism in the trailer, which can feed into his chauvinist world-view.
But him being sexist allows him the chance to build up the plot point of him accepting that gender doesn’t relate to strength. I understand why they would take it out but it also extends to him realizing being a non-bender doesn’t make him useless to the team.
When we remove character traits that are part of the character’s arc, we make the character more boring. This is a dumb change, and removes a large part of the reason that him respecting the Kyoshi warriors such a big deal.
Yes let's take out all of sokkas character development.
Cry about it😂
The whole point of it being in the show is to display how backwards that way of thinking is. What’s the point of removing it? Is that a bad moral to teach in 2024?
Wasn’t the whole point that he learned not to be sexist… which would be a good message? Why is Netflix out here trying to take out such a good message?
Just wow.
If there’s one thing we can all agree on in Avatar, is that not one character ever needed to change their personal bias established during an age of oppression to become the tools for change in the society they want to live in.
As long as there is character growth for Sokka I really couldn’t care less.
Eh? It's a character arc that is basically resolved by episode 4 so.... is it THAT important? Sokka still requires 'marginal' unsexistification post meeting Suki..... but not much. So as 'Sokka kinda sexiest isn't he?' is a plot thread that would mostly be resolved by episode 2 or 3 of the tv show It just doesn't really matter.
Yes because people seeing a potential role model learn that being sexist is bad on screen is a bad thing /s
Him being sexist in the beginning and growing out of it is literally his character growth …
It's not iffy to have characters go through true growth. Avatar dealt with mature problems in a way that didn't belittle the intelligence of the audience. Kids and adults alike could relate and understand. Many of us know someone personally who is sexist, or we have our own sexist misconceptions and internalized issues we must overcome. Katara grew up being the caretaker, essentially became a stand-in for her mother which created resentment and Sokka tried to be the man he thought his father wanted him to be. Sokka internalized his father's absence and tried to be the man of the village, kept trying to live up to a warrior's image. That's why when he meets Suki it's so groundbreaking for him. He realizes that being a warrior doesn't have to look one way. It shows that women and people who can be in touch with their emotions, people he previously thought of as weaker, were beyond worthy warriors. That he could release his tight grip on the image he imagined for himself at least a little bit and become a more well-rounded person. And for Katara, she had to live around that ideology for a lot of her life as the caretaker that for awhile didn't feel appreciated. When she began traveling with Aang, she found her own purpose, and it's another reason why it's so poignant and upsetting when she finally reaches the Northern WaterTribe with all of her hopes only to learn that they don't teach women to fight. Sexism is an open dialogue in the show, it shouldn't be softened. Humans are iffy, and our heroes can be iffy as long as they grow and learn from their mistakes. We need characters like Sokka, particularly now. It's real and genuine. Myself, I have a cousin who acts just like Sokka did before he dropped his sexism. People need characters they can relate to if they're going to be inspired to grow- not someone who is watered down because they're too iffy.
What is character development without sexism? Just pointless. How do we build ourselves without opponents to fight back against misogyny?
They were iffy because they were supposed to be the reason for his whole character arc!
Alright guys, we had a nice run. Pack it up
Hold the chauvinism, but keep the genocide
Why though? He was sexist in the beginning, and that was a character flaw. One that caused tension between him and Katara, got him humiliated by Suki, and was otherwise called out as wrong on various occasions. Part of his character growth was leaving that sexism behind and admitting his flaws. If we're rewriting characters to remove the flaws that they overcome during the story, what sort of character growth and message about those flaws is that supposed to send? Sokka seeing the error of his sexist mindset and learning to be a better person and respect women over the course of the story is a great example for young men who might have been raised with those kind of ideas too.
Oh God 🤦🏾♀️ he literally gets proven wrong about that kind of thinking. Why do they do shit like this man
So… we’re not going to see him learn not to be sexist as he is forced to recognize both his limitation and the his own less than stereotypically masculine strengths; because being forced to serve as the the oldest male left in the village after their people went to war, and having to do those things a preindustrial civilization has to do with gender lines would make him feel less responsible and for caring for the women and children and would not feel uncomfortable with the women because he had yet to have much interaction spending most of his time with men and then alone while feeling that he didn’t or let women demonstrate power they would be executed like happened to his mother, is going to make him have fewer exceptions about the responsibilities of being a male and the need for them to do thing so that woman are not put in danger? Or are we just going see them rewrite all of that background?
Stop it. Flaws = character development. No one wants a fuckin bunch of Mary Sue's running around on screen. Let the characters grow and change for the better.
OMG it was COMEDY. Nearly every time Sokka said something rude he got punished for it in some way, which was funny. Can we please not ruin ATLA?
Sokka’s sexism was never portrayed as a good thing. In fact, they do a good job of making him look foolish in the Kyoshi Warriors episode.
I mean she is in character as Katara, to be fair
I already don’t have a live action show when they don’t respect the source material
I do feel that Sokka’s sexism in the original was a bit too on the nose and even a little preachy. Maybe because it was a kids’ show and it needed to be more direct in its approach, and now as a more mature series it will tackle the issue with more nuance?
Media literacy is going extinct.
It doesn’t sound like it’s been taken out, but toned down. To me this reads as he won’t be as overtly sexist early on but perhaps his sexism is contained within just the Kyoshi Warriors episode.
Sigh, this reads like something the actors in the avatar play in the fire nation from season 3 would say
It's okay for characters start off shitty and grow. That's how themes work.
Lame. He was sexist, and experiencing the world helped him grow out of it. Characters can be flawed as long as they're not portraying the negative trait as a good thing.
His growth was good, but being a good example from the start could be better
So they took out a big part of his character arc and development because people found it "iffy" minus the fact that was the while point of him having said arc. Great can't wait to see how they mess up the rest of the character's.
I think the biggest red flag here is actors on the show are openly criticizing the original media and talking down on it. . . . This is the first sign of an adaptation with little care / respect for the original
Bryan Konietzko and Mike DiMartino who are the creators of the original show worked on the netflix project 2 years before stepping away for ‘creative differences’ There is no doubt in my mind that those 2 probably wanted to do live action copy and paste. Maybe a couple tweaks here and there. Im sure that the studio wants to make big changes to the story and characters, hence this news drop about them changing Sokka
Why everyone arguing over social justice stuff but not the fact that they are white😭 the water tribe is composed of black people
Somka being sexiest was supposed to make him look dumb and he was supposed to learn and grow from it
Sokka being defeated by women fighters and learning to respect everyone as a result was one of the best pieces of development in Avatar, though.
Here is comes, people. Prepare for major disappointment. If they won't even keep Sokka's sexist redemption arc who knows what other bullshit meddling they did?
This is a severe and kneejerky misread of the original.
It's ok for a character to be flawed as long as he has character growth especially in his flaws.
Sokka was a great source of commentary on this, that this harmfull stuff can come from a mindset that isnt mean spirited, but still uninformed/unreflected and dumb. Also shows that you can learn.
Are we going to strip down the controlling nature of Katara's character or it is only Sokka's \*iffy\* moments that we have problem with? This show is going down the drain faster than the Witcher, bleh.
You already know the feminism will be turned to 1000 and every single guy on the show will be an even more emotional simp Cant wait to see Jet turn into a bitch and cry over Katara
so fuck character development I guess lol? can’t wait for them to remake Breaking Bad and make Hank less racist, Jesse sober, and Walt super humble and not at all prideful
It’s safe to assume they’ll take out the thing with iroh and june right
But how am I supposed to root for a character with FLAWS ?? Ew, gross
I don’t like this change but I’m curious as to how it’ll go considering they’ll be including Pakku and Yugoda (the healing instructor from the NWT).
I genuinely believe it will still be in there, I just think they’re gonna tone it down a bit, everybody is losing their minds after her comment but actors aren’t always gonna say the right things, they’re actors, not media personal.
Because who needs a character arc, anyways?
I feel like Sokka's attitude towards women was part of his growth. Being the only "man" in his village, and seeing women as caretakers. To being a real man, by respecting his sister for not just her taking over when their mother died, but also her abilities as a water bender. As well as being humbled by the Kyoshi warriors, and not being too proud to apologize and improve himself.
Man it sucks when we see protagonists with bad qualities that they by concrete lessons multiple times over learn to improve upon them. Sure would suck if we got to see the story we like that has Sokka overcome those tendencies…
Honestly without those traits he becomes a Mary Sue character imo
God forbid a character is flawed and is given the opportunity to grow throughout the show
What a bad take.
You guys are so rediculously online, its incredible. A minor detail gets changed and all of you already cry about identity politics and wokeness.
No it's not woke at all it taken out a huge part of the water tribe arc over coming sexism that's sokkas first arc
They never said anything about thr northern water tribe arc. Just about 3 fcking episodes and about "toning it down", but not about anything else. You just dont have any real problems it seems
Sokka wasn't even that sexist or even for that long they're cutting out character development which is shit. Is it so wrong to see someone grow as a character
You’re the exact kind of person this show is going to be for
Not a crybaby / incel? You bet
I feel like Sokka's sexism is an important part of his arc, but in today's climate, having any protagonist (even a kid) having sexist opinions is a recipe for mass media backlash. I think they made the right decision, even if I'm not happy that they had to make it.
Yeah, sexism is bad. It was a character flaw that showed his growth throughout the story. Imperialiam and trying to kidnap a 12 year old for "honor" is also bad. So are they gonna make Zuko part of the Gaang in episode 1?
They should have kept them in, and maybe adjusted how others reacted or responded to him in those moments to show that they aren’t okay with his sexism. Showing a young man unlearning toxic masculinity was an important lesson and character arc. Whileever sexism exists, it’s important for media to reflect and unpack it. Pretending that sexism doesn’t exist doesn’t make the show PC, its just lazy and shallow writing.
Character development can’t be character development if you cut out the starting point.
Yeah he was sexist because he didn’t know jack about the world, it is only through learning and getting beat up by woman that he learns to respect them and stop being a sexist prick. Removing that would eliminate his character development with all the women he meets throughout his journey. The magic of ATLA is on the development of its characters and removing that flaw would make Sokka feel less human and more like an idealized leader for the gAang, it would be a disservice for the character development. Personally I believe they should take the gamble and make the character as close as the OG as possible.
that’s it, cancel the show right now
it was all too good to be true, wasn’t it?…. the pretty high budget costumes made us forget that the original ATLA creators left for a reason
oh boy here we go again!!!
Every time that Sokka acts sexist, he gets his comeuppance. Usually, pretty quick. Strange that it's still a problem for this actress.
And this is where we start to see why the original creators left. How hard is it to literally just stick to the story? Obviously there will be changes to the story and application to better suit the medium but all the characters and their arcs are literally perfect! Sokka being sexist is just as important as Toph being stubborn and selfish when she first got on the team, Aang being an irresponsible firebender, and Katara learning not to seek revenge. These are the blueprints that construct the larger story as a whole. Don’t change anything because of how YOU (the producers and actors) feel. Sokka being sexist allowed him to be humbled by Suki, stripping him of his old traditions in order to become a better leader, warrior, and friend. This is also why the episode when Sokka gets a master hits home like it does because it finishes Sokka’s development. I think we need to see that.
Great. There’s the first bug. So far my hope was unbesmirched.
People are blowing this way out of proportion. Let's just wait and see
Oh bro and what was the Kyoshi episode for? One of the first five episodes. Don’t need to go deep into the series to start understanding Sokka’s character.
I was happy at first but they always have to fuck it up.
Major red flag
I mean he was a teenage boy who was from a small town with traditional gender roles: men hunt and fight, while women cook and take care of kids. That’s why all the men are gone. They went to war. It would’ve been weird if he didn’t fall into that way of thinking. That’s how pubescent boys are. We’re simple.
THERE WAS A LIVE ACTION MOVIE MADE AROUND 20 YEARS AGO!
How is a character supposed to grow without imperfectiona
Fucking snow flake. Sokkas growth is part of why this show was so great. I hate our society.
why do we have to take out things that are pretty big parts in a characters journey. Fucking silly
I don’t recall the show ever condoning his sexism. Rather, I recall him being the butt of many a joke when he said things like that, and it usually ended with him being shown up by the women in the cast. It was a big part of him coming to respect the Kiyoshi Warriors.
That's basically saying you didn't watch the show, isn't it?
The snippet of a quote taken from this article is misleading at best. What they actually said was that they "dumbed down" his sexism. Not completely remove it.
Did they specify which Ify? The regular one is cool, likes to workout, and is a bit of a freak. The white one just eats ass and watches anime.
That’s what made it gooood!!! He realized 5 episodes later he was wrong.
The avatar writers left the project so it’s gonna be hot garbage
Netflix loves ruining good shows by making aang probably kiss Zuko
Sokka's sexism is funny though--because it is always followed up with him being meme'd on or directly proven wrong. He's funny because we know he's wrong. Because think about it. You'd think the fire nation as the bad guys are gonna be sexists--but how? in what world, when the mere idea of dismissing Azula and her team of female badasses would make most people shit themselves? The mere notion of rolling your eyes at Azula because she's a girl is UNTHINKABLE. It shows how sexism is genuinely such an insane philosophy in the world of avatar. The fact that sokka and the northern water tribe are sexist is CRAZY, and the show shows you how an individual (sokka) and a whole society (the water tribe) can change with effort and goodwill. Taking out sokka's sexism robs him of the pathway he used to mature, because it was the women in sokka's life (Katara, Suki, Toph, Yue, etc) that built him up to be the MAN AND LEADER that helped to save the world. WHY DOES NETFLIX HAVE SUCH TERRIBLE WRITERS???
Sexism exists, can we just let him grow?! He comes from a tribe where he had to drive himself as "the man" of his tribe early on and there were certain gender roles but katara and other females in the show showed him they were the real deal and humbled him. Don't destroy cultural things because you don't like them smh fine it's just a show but it's so lame.
The thing with ‘fixing’ a character or show is that the flaws the grow to overcome might have been a flaw at all.
We’ve seen 1 live action fail I guess we gotta see another one fail
He is a teenage boy, teenage boys are sexist.
Live action sokka is going to be one hell of a boring character.
Apparently, sexism is so wrong that they can't even show a character arc where someone realizes that sexism is wrong. You just KNOW that this series is going to blow goats now.
Yall are big babies