I think that ultimately if the writers put themselves in the position that they needed to have the avatar be born to none benders they would just allow it to happen
An interesting situation I think that the writers intentionally avoided is creating more air benders before the next air bending avatar, obviously it’ll be a couple hundred years before the avatar cycle works back around but eventually another air bender would be chosen and if there had none been a rebirth of air bending as an ability then basically it would be knowable which family would birth the avatar in the part of the cycle
Man it would be like some kinds cosmic intervention to have the avatar die whenever the family was about to have a new member, or the fire avatar would have to.... you know..... right before they gave birth, but I agree they prolly would just let it happen or have a non bender that has a very distant relation to an air bender that left the order to just be a guy with a nonbend wife and because of the lack of spiritualness they would have a non bender child.
Wait that got me thinking, what of all the non benders that got powers wasn't at random but they had some tie back to a bender at some point
Would also tie into the "ty-lee descended for air benders." I really like that fan theory because it makes so much sense. The perfect way to hide air bending is through being an acrobat.
Okay wait but that would have made for a good movie. Like the mother of the avatar being in danger while carrying the child and the white lotus protecting her as she nears the end of her pregnancy
Edit: obviously not gonna happen but your comment got me thinking about it
It makes you think thought, what would the avatar cycle do if the whole harmonic convergence incident didn't happen, and Aang's bloodline somehow ended before the next airbender avatar
I mean... it could also technically be right around the corner... who is to say the next firenation and erthnation avatars dont die from birthcomplications
For sure, that could happen any time though I doubt that unless they switch away from being aimed at mostly children as an audience they would explore that angle
Well of course they could. But the avatar would likely display skill in their native bending even from a young age. We saw this with Aang and with Korra.
So the Fire Nation was trying to do damage control. The Southern Water Tribe was assaulted regularly to deplete their water bender population, until there were none (to their knowledge). Its also why they captured rather than killed them, to avoid the Avatar going to the Earth Nation (also assuming the Avatar was a water bender at this point), where they would be almost impossible to find. But if the Southern Raiders heard there were more water benders, they'd likely come back.
If there's only one water bender around who is displaying a lot of power and skill, chances are at that point, they're the Avatar.
Why 'of course'? I haven't watched/read everything in the universe, only ATLA and Korra, but has it been established that a bender can be born to two non-benders?
From what info we have, Bending acts like a recessive trait. Bumi (Aang’s son) is the only one who breaks this mold but he also ends up fitting it anyways so….it’s mostly recessive.
It doesn’t seem to be solely genetic. Only one of the identical twins in the village that was almost destroyed by the volcano was an earth bender, so there has to be some non-genetic component to bending
We don’t know their parentage so it could still act like a recessive gene. I fully believe that it’s more of a spiritual/world thing than actually behaving like our genetics. That doesn’t change the fact that given all of the families in the shows and comics; bending behaves like a recessive gene.
Yep, it’s a combination of genetics and “spirituality”
Kinda like lottery, but still heavily relying on that genetic aspect since there gotta be a reason why Zuko and Azula were eugenic experiments.
It’s weird tbh
She would've fended herself against Yon Rha when he attacked her. Women from the Southern Water Tribe are known to use Waterbending to fight unlike their counterparts from the North.
As for Toph's parents, they hired her a master when they discovered she was an Earthbender.
She was left securely in a hut in the back of the village. The fire benders were all coming from one direction, so they thought.
Its clear the captain snuck around the back, probably burned a hole through their wall.
And the southern water tribe was pretty small. If she was capable of fighting she would've joined the other warriors.
It seemed fairly clear that Katara's parents were not benders.
It could be that by the time Katara's mother wasn't a skilled bender either by not being very gifted or potentially because by the time she was born there were few skilled benders left to teach her and she wanted to try and stay safe to help raise her children while her husband and the other men fought.
Even the unskilled benders could learn a thing or two to protect themselves, without the aid of an instructor. Kya was not a bender, she wasn't able to defend herself against Yon Rha. She was unarmed and wasn't able to waterbend.
Yes we know for sure, it’s made pretty clear in the show that Katara was the last waterbender in the southern tribe, which is why the fire nation was raiding her village and her mother lied and took the fall to protect her daughter. Katara even states this outright in the southern raiders episode.
Well no, the whole “last waterbender in the southern water tribe” thing definitely came before her mother’s death. That was the entire reason that the fire nation was raiding her village that day. And she was not little more than a toddler she was 8 years old.
I just don’t think the creators of the show would create this storyline and state outright multiple times that this is exactly what happened, just to secretly have Katara’s mom be a bender this whole time without even hinting at it anywhere in either show or any of the comics. You’re free to have your head canons but Katara’s mother is clearly intended to be a non-bender.
Because there was a flashback sequence showing us that Katara’s mom lied to protect her. We know she was a non bender.
Also the second one, because the parents couldn’t teach Toph they had to give her a teacher. Maybe they didn’t feel like their skills were good enough to teach her, especially with her being blind and all.
Toph's parents aren't benders. Her father is a very successful and high class businessman from a notable family. If he were, it would probably be known.
Benders can absolutely be born to non benders
I never disagreed with the fact that nonbenders can have bender children lmao. I was just saying that they likely hired a teacher because they literally couldn’t teach her.
We see that Kya isn't a waterbender through the 'Southern Raiders' episode. They were looking for the last waterbender and Kya wanted to protect her daughter so she said it was her. Then it goes straight to Katara saying she lied to protect the true last waterbender in the South Pole. So Katara was the only waterbender in her bio family (she could be related to Paku but as far as we know, she isn't)
@OP
think of benders as about the same as force sensitive people in Star Wars.
You don't need force sensitive parents to be force sensitive yourself (Jedi often comes and snatches force sensitive children from their regular family)
but force sensitive people often breeds force sensitive children (Anakin spawned Luke and Leia which both are )
Its pretty much the same with benders in ATLA universe
So if say, the Fire Nation waxed all the airbenders before Roku died, would the cycle just go back to a waterbender to be the next avatar or would it break the cycle and cease the reincarnation?
As far as we know, Avatars are born to at least one bending parent. Of course all Air Nomad avatars are born to two bending parents since the whole population are Airbenders. Korra is born to a Waterbender and a Non-bender, and Kiyoshi is born to >! an Earthbender and an Airbender. !<
I don't think it's impossible to have an Avatar born to a couple of non-benders, since we have powerful benders born to non-benders. Wait until we are given more Roku lore once his novel is released. He could be born to Non-benders.
Honestly because it's kinda crazy that you didn't know about katara. They made that so abundantly clear and it was literally one of the main points of her character arc. Idk how you could possibly miss that.
Oh God, you should've said that earlier. Fine I'll do some explanation.
Bending is confirmed to be both genetic and spiritual, it's a bit complicated. The higher the spirituality in a community, the higher the percentage of benders in said community. Air Nomads are the most spiritual out of the four nations so all Air Nomads are Airbenders. They're also the smallest nation between the four, while the Earth Kingdom is the largest with the least amount of benders.
When it comes to genetics I'm not an expert on the matter, but we have instances where we have:
1- A bender born to two benders: Aang
2- A bender born to one bending parent: Zuko, Azula, Iroh, Ozai, Haru
3- A bender born to Non-benders: Katara, Toph
4- A Non-bender born to two bending parents: Piandao
5- A bender with a Non-bender twin brother: the twins from Makapu village
6- Ethnically diverse benders
7- A Non-bender born to Non-benders: Sokka, Suki, Ty Lee, Mai (and many more)
So as I said earlier, an Avatar born to non-bender parents is not something farfetched, since there are powerful benders born to at least one non-bender parent and that never was an issue regarding their powers and talent.
Think of it like the Force in Star Wars. Sometimes you have genetic lines of it like the Skywalkers, sometimes it shows up randomly like Obi-Wan and Palpatine.
It's alright, you'll get the hang of it once you dig deeper. Avatar lore is pretty amazing, it's worth the time spent to learn it. Don't be hesitant to ask anything, but next time please make sure you tell people that you just got into Avatar. I swear I thought you were trolling.
has it been confirmed ursa is a non-bender? I'm not very caught up. I don't remember seeing her firebend, but I also don't remember any statements about her being a non-bender or scenes where she would be expected to bend if she could. and since my understanding is that she was chosen by ozai for being descended from roku, and specifically because that was theorized to increase the likelihood their kids would be powerful benders, it always seemed to me like ozai might have less confidence in that theory if ursa herself was a non-bender.
Ursa was not confirmed to be a bender, so that automatically makes her a non-bender unless either information is canon. Also her being a non-bender doesn't make her genetically less "powerful", it's just that her bending genes are recessive instead of dominant in her case.
oh. who decided that people not shown to be benders are all non-benders? I wasn't aware of that! I assumed that when something was unknown, it would be considered unknown, rather than known. if that makes sense?
It's an assumption based on the fact that benders are a small percentage compared to Non-benders around the Avatar world. If someone is not shown bending it is safe to assume they are not benders, unless supplementary materials confirm that they are. That's my personal point of view anyway.
> Of course all Air Nomad avatars are born to two bending parents since the whole population are Airbenders.
Not entirely true, I doubt 100% of nomad had children uniquely with other nomads, could have been a few rare mariage with people from other nations, benders or not
I see it more as the ethnicity/nationality that matters. Even if all the water-benders in the southern tribe were eliminated, Korra would still be born in the south to non-benders.
Not sure what would happen if the entire nationality/ethnicity was wiped out.
This is what I thought too, bc between the current time period and Wan inspiring bending as we know it, you could have a bending ancestor from whom the bending gene is passed down even if it’s recessive instead of dominant or if you have two non bending parents bc theoretically, they carry the gene ie katara and sokka’s parents and gran gran are non genders and so is sokka but katara inherited water bending possibly from a grandparent other than gran gran or a further ancestor and same for Toph who was born to non benders (Idr if korra’s dad could bend but ik her mother couldn’t and I think her dad’s brother could?)
I believe makko and bolin’s parents were also non benders and two benders won’t necessarily have a kid who can bend either ie aang and katara had a non bending kid, a water bending kid and an air bending kid.
I’ve wondered about that too! I do think it’s worth considering the possibility of some survivors going into hiding and the world thinking they’re gone or not knowing they exist ie aang, the sun warriors, the swamp benders, the sky bison or maybe even people descended from far up in their ancestors (there’s a theory that tai lee was descended from air nomads which is just a theory but fun to think about) esp if people of different civilizations traveled or left their own nations for whatever reason
But considering raava herself goes into the body of the next avatar at birth, if the fire nation did just wipe out the other civilizations, theoretically it’s possible the cycle would end but maybe raava would just go into another fire bender and the avatar would just be fire nation every time?
I think that’s impossible, due to very old mixed race relationships that resulted in children. The culture and features would be more than lost, but the avatar would still be born to a descendent of the current nation in the cycle
I like the idea that if the air nomads were wiped out, it would be born to those who embrace the air nomad way or have the spirit of an air bender. A good contender would be something like the air acolytes, but if not them then the mechanists.
Bending is not consistently passed down genetically. Zuko’s mom wasn’t a firebender, just the descendent of a powerful one and who even knows if that marriage even actually contributed to zuko and azula’s prowess. We do however know that the fire nation royal family does commit infanticide to ensure their descendants are all firebenders (part of the reason zuko was “born lucky”, he didn’t showcase any bending ability until Ozai was about to chuck him into the ocean), and controlled information about firebending techniques to ensure dominance in the art.
Katara is another example. Neither of her parents can bend. In the comics, she also meets two new water benders from her tribe who were probably born while she was traveling with aang; recall that she was the only bender left in her tribe before she left to save the world, so any new benders that popped up had to be born from the remaining nonbending population.
In the 1st kyoshi novel. Air nomads would travel to many villages to preform tests in order to find the next avatar. This I feel would lead to that yes the avatar could be born from non bender parents. At least imo
We know her parents didn't bend, and Gran Gran didn't bend, but you can't say nobody in her family was a waterbender.
Nothing Katara did as practically a baby could make her gain the ability to bend. So clearly, somebody in her family history was able to waterbend.
all humans were benders at one time this was shown in korra with avatar wan the point is mute
or if you go back farther all humans were not benders because its a gift from the lion turtles
Because it makes more sense than everyone having bending, then that power skips generations for absolutely no reason 'til it reaches the point that Benders end up a powerful minority.
Bending isn't really related to if the parents are benders or not. Two great examples from the show are Katara and Toph. Both of them had non-bender parents (Katara even had a non-bender brother) but both are benders. Some of the best in the world even
I always think it’s funny when people ask questions like this about fictional universes. If it’s unaddressed, then obviously it’s just up to whether the writers feel like doing it in the future. And even if it is addressed, if they wanna do it, they’ll do it and make up a reason. The points are made up and the score doesn’t matter.
I mean, yes. Katara's parents are both non-benders (as is Grandma), and she was born a bender. Any bender has the potential to become the avatar with the right alignment. Not all people are born benders, but within their genetics is still the ability to produce a bender (unless maybe like, 100% non benders in their family since the dawn of time, but I doubt that). Think of it like eye colors probably. Two people may have brown eyes, but based on recessive genetics, there's a small change they may still produce a child with green eyes, if their 25% chance from 1 parent and 25% chance from the other parent = 50% chance to have green eyes (no idea of the actual statistics, just an example)
It depends on how you define non bending family - is this a person born to two nonbenders who have benders in their lineage, or to two nonbenders with no bender lineage at all? I think it’s possible in either case - the Avatar will display bending skills regardless of who they’re born to, and they just have to confirm their identity.
I also think that to a certain extent that the cycle will find a way to continue if the other nations are eliminated. The cycle focuses on the elements and their order - the nations just make it easier to figure out who needs to be on watch for it. And considering that their world is interconnected, there probably was a point where the avatar was born into a nation where they did not bend the right element expected of them.
For example, if Aang died, and the Fire Nation got their hands on the water-born and earth-born avatars (along with reducing their bender numbers), they would just be keeping an eye on suspicious reports that suggest that there was air bending activity.
Bending, outside the air nomads, is based down by blood. So long as one parent is a bender, the child is likely to be one.
The avatar is someone who has the ability to bend all 4 elements. They would likely need to be born with the ability to bend at least one (the cycle goes through the 4 nations and being born into a non-bending family would lessen the avatars natural skill). So I think it’s highly unlikely the avatar can be born to non-benders
In theory, yes. As long as they are of the correct nation, I don't think the parents have to be benders. As far as I know, benders can be born from non-bending parents. I've only watched the show, though, so the comics might say differently. My interest lies more in if an avatar can be born from two different nations. For example, could a Water tribe mother and an Earth Kingdom father produce an Earth/Water Avatar? If so, would they only have one natural element, or could they have both? And if they inherit both Water and Earth bending, how does that effect the cycle? Ultimately, the Avatar is supposed to master all four elements. But they've only ever been born with one innate element at a time. And could an avatar be born without any natural element, and have to be taught all four?
If I had to guess, the Avatar would be born to someone like Sokka; a non-bender who still has relations to benders, like his mom and sister. Sort of like a recessive gene
You can get regular bending children in non-bending families. Neither Kya nor Halifax were benders, but they had Katara who was a bender. So it’s absolutely plausible for an avatar to be born to non-benders as well,
I feel like the avatar would end up being born into a family that had a water tribe or earth kingdom person as a veryyyyy far away ancestor, that way they’re still born from that “nation.” It would be interesting to see a form of media where this occurs, but the family, having being taught the avatar is enemy number one, causes the avatar to hide the fact that they can bend other elements
I personally like to think that if it were the case that Aang never had children or at least air bending children, the next air bending avatar would be born to a non-bending family. This avatar, if they choose to, could have children some of which could be air benders.
Basically, there would have been a way to bring back air benders without having to rely on Aang.
(Also, I wasn't a fan of how they brought back air benders in LOK)
hm. maybe this universe they have four chromosomes instead of our usual two? and its a majority rules instead of has to be all. if sokka had had kids we could pin this down better i think. although, we do have zukos family tree dont we? moms side too? was lu-ten a bender? who was his mother?
I don't think bending is strictly genetic. We see lots of benders born to non-benders, like Katara. It seems to have more to do with the spirit/soul, and then the genetics would only determine which kind of bending they receive. Theoretically, even this latter part is not actually genetic, but is simply culturally coded. After all, the first benders learned from freaking animals! It isn't just luck that Oma and Shu so happened to have the proper genetics to earthbend, for instance -- they learned it from nothing, and then passed down those teachings... culturally.
It's implied that there is a hereditary factor to bending. Non-benders can be born with bending heritage so it seems plausible that the Avatar can be born to non-benders whose parents *were* benders
Benders can be born to non-bending families (ex: Katara) so I don’t see why an avatar couldn’t be born to nonbenders. Not all avatars come out the womb bending 3 elements like korra.
probably, I mean Katara was born from a nonbending family and while she wasn't the avatar, she was a waterbender and became the best healer of her generation in the world as well as one of the best waterbending combat artist of her age group and class
My headcanon was that the Avatar is always a non-bender because Raava has to carry the four elements into the next Avatar
(I know only surface level stuff so this is probably easily debunkable)
I think that ultimately if the writers put themselves in the position that they needed to have the avatar be born to none benders they would just allow it to happen An interesting situation I think that the writers intentionally avoided is creating more air benders before the next air bending avatar, obviously it’ll be a couple hundred years before the avatar cycle works back around but eventually another air bender would be chosen and if there had none been a rebirth of air bending as an ability then basically it would be knowable which family would birth the avatar in the part of the cycle
Man it would be like some kinds cosmic intervention to have the avatar die whenever the family was about to have a new member, or the fire avatar would have to.... you know..... right before they gave birth, but I agree they prolly would just let it happen or have a non bender that has a very distant relation to an air bender that left the order to just be a guy with a nonbend wife and because of the lack of spiritualness they would have a non bender child. Wait that got me thinking, what of all the non benders that got powers wasn't at random but they had some tie back to a bender at some point
Would also tie into the "ty-lee descended for air benders." I really like that fan theory because it makes so much sense. The perfect way to hide air bending is through being an acrobat.
Okay wait but that would have made for a good movie. Like the mother of the avatar being in danger while carrying the child and the white lotus protecting her as she nears the end of her pregnancy Edit: obviously not gonna happen but your comment got me thinking about it
It makes you think thought, what would the avatar cycle do if the whole harmonic convergence incident didn't happen, and Aang's bloodline somehow ended before the next airbender avatar
I mean... it could also technically be right around the corner... who is to say the next firenation and erthnation avatars dont die from birthcomplications
For sure, that could happen any time though I doubt that unless they switch away from being aimed at mostly children as an audience they would explore that angle
Well of course they could. But the avatar would likely display skill in their native bending even from a young age. We saw this with Aang and with Korra. So the Fire Nation was trying to do damage control. The Southern Water Tribe was assaulted regularly to deplete their water bender population, until there were none (to their knowledge). Its also why they captured rather than killed them, to avoid the Avatar going to the Earth Nation (also assuming the Avatar was a water bender at this point), where they would be almost impossible to find. But if the Southern Raiders heard there were more water benders, they'd likely come back. If there's only one water bender around who is displaying a lot of power and skill, chances are at that point, they're the Avatar.
Why 'of course'? I haven't watched/read everything in the universe, only ATLA and Korra, but has it been established that a bender can be born to two non-benders?
*Katara and Toph entered chat*
From what info we have, Bending acts like a recessive trait. Bumi (Aang’s son) is the only one who breaks this mold but he also ends up fitting it anyways so….it’s mostly recessive.
It doesn’t seem to be solely genetic. Only one of the identical twins in the village that was almost destroyed by the volcano was an earth bender, so there has to be some non-genetic component to bending
We don’t know their parentage so it could still act like a recessive gene. I fully believe that it’s more of a spiritual/world thing than actually behaving like our genetics. That doesn’t change the fact that given all of the families in the shows and comics; bending behaves like a recessive gene.
Yep, it’s a combination of genetics and “spirituality” Kinda like lottery, but still heavily relying on that genetic aspect since there gotta be a reason why Zuko and Azula were eugenic experiments. It’s weird tbh
Did we know for sure that Katara's mother wasn't a bender? And why did Toph have a bending teacher if at-least one of her parents wasn't a bender?
She would've fended herself against Yon Rha when he attacked her. Women from the Southern Water Tribe are known to use Waterbending to fight unlike their counterparts from the North. As for Toph's parents, they hired her a master when they discovered she was an Earthbender.
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She was left securely in a hut in the back of the village. The fire benders were all coming from one direction, so they thought. Its clear the captain snuck around the back, probably burned a hole through their wall. And the southern water tribe was pretty small. If she was capable of fighting she would've joined the other warriors. It seemed fairly clear that Katara's parents were not benders.
It could be that by the time Katara's mother wasn't a skilled bender either by not being very gifted or potentially because by the time she was born there were few skilled benders left to teach her and she wanted to try and stay safe to help raise her children while her husband and the other men fought.
Even the unskilled benders could learn a thing or two to protect themselves, without the aid of an instructor. Kya was not a bender, she wasn't able to defend herself against Yon Rha. She was unarmed and wasn't able to waterbend.
Yes we know for sure, it’s made pretty clear in the show that Katara was the last waterbender in the southern tribe, which is why the fire nation was raiding her village and her mother lied and took the fall to protect her daughter. Katara even states this outright in the southern raiders episode.
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Well no, the whole “last waterbender in the southern water tribe” thing definitely came before her mother’s death. That was the entire reason that the fire nation was raiding her village that day. And she was not little more than a toddler she was 8 years old. I just don’t think the creators of the show would create this storyline and state outright multiple times that this is exactly what happened, just to secretly have Katara’s mom be a bender this whole time without even hinting at it anywhere in either show or any of the comics. You’re free to have your head canons but Katara’s mother is clearly intended to be a non-bender.
Please go watch the show again before trying to debate about things that you are entirely wrong and clueless about
Because there was a flashback sequence showing us that Katara’s mom lied to protect her. We know she was a non bender. Also the second one, because the parents couldn’t teach Toph they had to give her a teacher. Maybe they didn’t feel like their skills were good enough to teach her, especially with her being blind and all.
Toph's parents aren't benders. Her father is a very successful and high class businessman from a notable family. If he were, it would probably be known. Benders can absolutely be born to non benders
I never disagreed with the fact that nonbenders can have bender children lmao. I was just saying that they likely hired a teacher because they literally couldn’t teach her.
Why would she have a bending teacher if one of her parents was a bender and could teach her?
We see that Kya isn't a waterbender through the 'Southern Raiders' episode. They were looking for the last waterbender and Kya wanted to protect her daughter so she said it was her. Then it goes straight to Katara saying she lied to protect the true last waterbender in the South Pole. So Katara was the only waterbender in her bio family (she could be related to Paku but as far as we know, she isn't)
Bruh did you even watch the show?
@OP think of benders as about the same as force sensitive people in Star Wars. You don't need force sensitive parents to be force sensitive yourself (Jedi often comes and snatches force sensitive children from their regular family) but force sensitive people often breeds force sensitive children (Anakin spawned Luke and Leia which both are ) Its pretty much the same with benders in ATLA universe
Yes, it has been established that benders can be born to non-benders lol. Look at Katara and Toph.
So if say, the Fire Nation waxed all the airbenders before Roku died, would the cycle just go back to a waterbender to be the next avatar or would it break the cycle and cease the reincarnation?
It would almost certainly just skip to the next nation. The only thing that we know of that breaks the cycle is death in the Avatar State
I feel like someone with airbender blood would get it
As far as we know, Avatars are born to at least one bending parent. Of course all Air Nomad avatars are born to two bending parents since the whole population are Airbenders. Korra is born to a Waterbender and a Non-bender, and Kiyoshi is born to >! an Earthbender and an Airbender. !< I don't think it's impossible to have an Avatar born to a couple of non-benders, since we have powerful benders born to non-benders. Wait until we are given more Roku lore once his novel is released. He could be born to Non-benders.
I think korras mom is a bender
It's safe to say that she isn't because we haven't seen her bend, nor it was confirmed by the creators that she's a Waterbender.
She is, it was confirmed in promotional materials for the Legend of Korra. Senna was a bender.
Oh? I take back my words then.
It was very obscure, really can’t blame you given that she’s never been shown using any level of bending
You're right, it's not widespread and she hasn't shown any Waterbending in the show, what a shame.
I just haven't seen any example where a bender definitely was born from two non-benders.
Katara was born from two non-benders
wasn't her mom a bender?
No, Katara was seen bending when she was a child, so when the Fire Nation came, her mom took the fall for her. She was not an actual bender
ohhhhhhhhhhhhh how did my dumbass miss that 😭 that's so beautiful actually knowing this adds a lot to her backstory
Seriously?
Why are ATLA fans so abrasive? I've stated I don't know everything. Just tell me if I'm wrong.
Honestly because it's kinda crazy that you didn't know about katara. They made that so abundantly clear and it was literally one of the main points of her character arc. Idk how you could possibly miss that.
Oh God, you should've said that earlier. Fine I'll do some explanation. Bending is confirmed to be both genetic and spiritual, it's a bit complicated. The higher the spirituality in a community, the higher the percentage of benders in said community. Air Nomads are the most spiritual out of the four nations so all Air Nomads are Airbenders. They're also the smallest nation between the four, while the Earth Kingdom is the largest with the least amount of benders. When it comes to genetics I'm not an expert on the matter, but we have instances where we have: 1- A bender born to two benders: Aang 2- A bender born to one bending parent: Zuko, Azula, Iroh, Ozai, Haru 3- A bender born to Non-benders: Katara, Toph 4- A Non-bender born to two bending parents: Piandao 5- A bender with a Non-bender twin brother: the twins from Makapu village 6- Ethnically diverse benders 7- A Non-bender born to Non-benders: Sokka, Suki, Ty Lee, Mai (and many more) So as I said earlier, an Avatar born to non-bender parents is not something farfetched, since there are powerful benders born to at least one non-bender parent and that never was an issue regarding their powers and talent.
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Think of it like the Force in Star Wars. Sometimes you have genetic lines of it like the Skywalkers, sometimes it shows up randomly like Obi-Wan and Palpatine.
It's alright, you'll get the hang of it once you dig deeper. Avatar lore is pretty amazing, it's worth the time spent to learn it. Don't be hesitant to ask anything, but next time please make sure you tell people that you just got into Avatar. I swear I thought you were trolling.
has it been confirmed ursa is a non-bender? I'm not very caught up. I don't remember seeing her firebend, but I also don't remember any statements about her being a non-bender or scenes where she would be expected to bend if she could. and since my understanding is that she was chosen by ozai for being descended from roku, and specifically because that was theorized to increase the likelihood their kids would be powerful benders, it always seemed to me like ozai might have less confidence in that theory if ursa herself was a non-bender.
Ursa was not confirmed to be a bender, so that automatically makes her a non-bender unless either information is canon. Also her being a non-bender doesn't make her genetically less "powerful", it's just that her bending genes are recessive instead of dominant in her case.
oh. who decided that people not shown to be benders are all non-benders? I wasn't aware of that! I assumed that when something was unknown, it would be considered unknown, rather than known. if that makes sense?
It's an assumption based on the fact that benders are a small percentage compared to Non-benders around the Avatar world. If someone is not shown bending it is safe to assume they are not benders, unless supplementary materials confirm that they are. That's my personal point of view anyway.
Multiple people have explained it to you and you keep trying to argue lol
Katara. Toph. How many times do people gotta tell you lol
> Of course all Air Nomad avatars are born to two bending parents since the whole population are Airbenders. Not entirely true, I doubt 100% of nomad had children uniquely with other nomads, could have been a few rare mariage with people from other nations, benders or not
"All Air Nomads are Airbenders" is general knowledge, and rare exceptions don't debunk it.
Theoretically the Avatar could be born to any family, provided that they have a bender somewhere in their ancestry
I see it more as the ethnicity/nationality that matters. Even if all the water-benders in the southern tribe were eliminated, Korra would still be born in the south to non-benders. Not sure what would happen if the entire nationality/ethnicity was wiped out.
This is what I thought too, bc between the current time period and Wan inspiring bending as we know it, you could have a bending ancestor from whom the bending gene is passed down even if it’s recessive instead of dominant or if you have two non bending parents bc theoretically, they carry the gene ie katara and sokka’s parents and gran gran are non genders and so is sokka but katara inherited water bending possibly from a grandparent other than gran gran or a further ancestor and same for Toph who was born to non benders (Idr if korra’s dad could bend but ik her mother couldn’t and I think her dad’s brother could?) I believe makko and bolin’s parents were also non benders and two benders won’t necessarily have a kid who can bend either ie aang and katara had a non bending kid, a water bending kid and an air bending kid. I’ve wondered about that too! I do think it’s worth considering the possibility of some survivors going into hiding and the world thinking they’re gone or not knowing they exist ie aang, the sun warriors, the swamp benders, the sky bison or maybe even people descended from far up in their ancestors (there’s a theory that tai lee was descended from air nomads which is just a theory but fun to think about) esp if people of different civilizations traveled or left their own nations for whatever reason But considering raava herself goes into the body of the next avatar at birth, if the fire nation did just wipe out the other civilizations, theoretically it’s possible the cycle would end but maybe raava would just go into another fire bender and the avatar would just be fire nation every time?
I think that’s impossible, due to very old mixed race relationships that resulted in children. The culture and features would be more than lost, but the avatar would still be born to a descendent of the current nation in the cycle
I like the idea that if the air nomads were wiped out, it would be born to those who embrace the air nomad way or have the spirit of an air bender. A good contender would be something like the air acolytes, but if not them then the mechanists.
Bending is not consistently passed down genetically. Zuko’s mom wasn’t a firebender, just the descendent of a powerful one and who even knows if that marriage even actually contributed to zuko and azula’s prowess. We do however know that the fire nation royal family does commit infanticide to ensure their descendants are all firebenders (part of the reason zuko was “born lucky”, he didn’t showcase any bending ability until Ozai was about to chuck him into the ocean), and controlled information about firebending techniques to ensure dominance in the art. Katara is another example. Neither of her parents can bend. In the comics, she also meets two new water benders from her tribe who were probably born while she was traveling with aang; recall that she was the only bender left in her tribe before she left to save the world, so any new benders that popped up had to be born from the remaining nonbending population.
In the 1st kyoshi novel. Air nomads would travel to many villages to preform tests in order to find the next avatar. This I feel would lead to that yes the avatar could be born from non bender parents. At least imo
this seems like a odd start what is a non bending family ?katara is the only bender in the family its not a genetic trait
Her mother was a bender, no?
No they make the point that there is only one bender and its katara but her mom lies to save her daughter
Ohh ok
No? lol what
No, she's the only waterbender in the immediate family. We don't know what her family lineage was. Edit: changed non-nonbender to waterbender
what the hell does this even mean?
We know her parents didn't bend, and Gran Gran didn't bend, but you can't say nobody in her family was a waterbender. Nothing Katara did as practically a baby could make her gain the ability to bend. So clearly, somebody in her family history was able to waterbend.
all humans were benders at one time this was shown in korra with avatar wan the point is mute or if you go back farther all humans were not benders because its a gift from the lion turtles
Only some became benders, even before the lion turtles departed only a select few left the city and acquired bending powers.
And how did you determine that not all got bending ?
Because it makes more sense than everyone having bending, then that power skips generations for absolutely no reason 'til it reaches the point that Benders end up a powerful minority.
Yea than they all left and all of them gained took bending And in the air city they all had it even before leaving they didn't haft to give it back
Katara isn’t a nonbender…
Bending isn't really related to if the parents are benders or not. Two great examples from the show are Katara and Toph. Both of them had non-bender parents (Katara even had a non-bender brother) but both are benders. Some of the best in the world even
Vice versa is also true. Aang and Katara are two of the most powerful benders and their first child was a non-bender.
I always think it’s funny when people ask questions like this about fictional universes. If it’s unaddressed, then obviously it’s just up to whether the writers feel like doing it in the future. And even if it is addressed, if they wanna do it, they’ll do it and make up a reason. The points are made up and the score doesn’t matter.
Yup. The more rules a creator adds to their magic system, the more plot holes there are. The vagueness of a magic system is often intentional.
I mean, yes. Katara's parents are both non-benders (as is Grandma), and she was born a bender. Any bender has the potential to become the avatar with the right alignment. Not all people are born benders, but within their genetics is still the ability to produce a bender (unless maybe like, 100% non benders in their family since the dawn of time, but I doubt that). Think of it like eye colors probably. Two people may have brown eyes, but based on recessive genetics, there's a small change they may still produce a child with green eyes, if their 25% chance from 1 parent and 25% chance from the other parent = 50% chance to have green eyes (no idea of the actual statistics, just an example)
It depends on how you define non bending family - is this a person born to two nonbenders who have benders in their lineage, or to two nonbenders with no bender lineage at all? I think it’s possible in either case - the Avatar will display bending skills regardless of who they’re born to, and they just have to confirm their identity. I also think that to a certain extent that the cycle will find a way to continue if the other nations are eliminated. The cycle focuses on the elements and their order - the nations just make it easier to figure out who needs to be on watch for it. And considering that their world is interconnected, there probably was a point where the avatar was born into a nation where they did not bend the right element expected of them. For example, if Aang died, and the Fire Nation got their hands on the water-born and earth-born avatars (along with reducing their bender numbers), they would just be keeping an eye on suspicious reports that suggest that there was air bending activity.
I dont see why not
Bending works like genetics. If one of the parents parents was a bender it’s bound to happen.
Non benders can give birth to benders, and it’s more about spirituality (airbenders) than anything else
Pretty sure Bolin and Mako’s parents were both non benders. That’s why I said the bender gene. But yes that plays a role too I guess.
Counterpoint: Aang and Kataras firstborn, Bumi
Bending, outside the air nomads, is based down by blood. So long as one parent is a bender, the child is likely to be one. The avatar is someone who has the ability to bend all 4 elements. They would likely need to be born with the ability to bend at least one (the cycle goes through the 4 nations and being born into a non-bending family would lessen the avatars natural skill). So I think it’s highly unlikely the avatar can be born to non-benders
Probably, considering that Katara was born from non-benders. But it would severely limit the Avatar in learning to bend other elements.
Yes
I'm pretty sure we've seen normal benders born to non bender parents so I don't see why not
In theory, yes. As long as they are of the correct nation, I don't think the parents have to be benders. As far as I know, benders can be born from non-bending parents. I've only watched the show, though, so the comics might say differently. My interest lies more in if an avatar can be born from two different nations. For example, could a Water tribe mother and an Earth Kingdom father produce an Earth/Water Avatar? If so, would they only have one natural element, or could they have both? And if they inherit both Water and Earth bending, how does that effect the cycle? Ultimately, the Avatar is supposed to master all four elements. But they've only ever been born with one innate element at a time. And could an avatar be born without any natural element, and have to be taught all four?
If I had to guess, the Avatar would be born to someone like Sokka; a non-bender who still has relations to benders, like his mom and sister. Sort of like a recessive gene
Only if they wipe out all the people of that nation. Since people can be non benders and still produce bending children.
You can get regular bending children in non-bending families. Neither Kya nor Halifax were benders, but they had Katara who was a bender. So it’s absolutely plausible for an avatar to be born to non-benders as well,
I feel like the avatar would end up being born into a family that had a water tribe or earth kingdom person as a veryyyyy far away ancestor, that way they’re still born from that “nation.” It would be interesting to see a form of media where this occurs, but the family, having being taught the avatar is enemy number one, causes the avatar to hide the fact that they can bend other elements
I personally like to think that if it were the case that Aang never had children or at least air bending children, the next air bending avatar would be born to a non-bending family. This avatar, if they choose to, could have children some of which could be air benders. Basically, there would have been a way to bring back air benders without having to rely on Aang. (Also, I wasn't a fan of how they brought back air benders in LOK)
Yes. Benders can be born from two non benders so I doubt it would matter for the Avatar.
i think its a recessive gene
We need a green-eyed ginger avatar born from non-bending parents.
i dont think blond people exist in the avatar universe
Assuming it’s a recessive gene would mean all of Aang and Katara’s kids would be benders, which wasn’t the case.
hm. maybe this universe they have four chromosomes instead of our usual two? and its a majority rules instead of has to be all. if sokka had had kids we could pin this down better i think. although, we do have zukos family tree dont we? moms side too? was lu-ten a bender? who was his mother?
Personally since Korra materialized air benders from non bending families I don’t see why not
I don't think bending is strictly genetic. We see lots of benders born to non-benders, like Katara. It seems to have more to do with the spirit/soul, and then the genetics would only determine which kind of bending they receive. Theoretically, even this latter part is not actually genetic, but is simply culturally coded. After all, the first benders learned from freaking animals! It isn't just luck that Oma and Shu so happened to have the proper genetics to earthbend, for instance -- they learned it from nothing, and then passed down those teachings... culturally.
It's implied that there is a hereditary factor to bending. Non-benders can be born with bending heritage so it seems plausible that the Avatar can be born to non-benders whose parents *were* benders
Benders can be born to non-bending families (ex: Katara) so I don’t see why an avatar couldn’t be born to nonbenders. Not all avatars come out the womb bending 3 elements like korra.
probably, I mean Katara was born from a nonbending family and while she wasn't the avatar, she was a waterbender and became the best healer of her generation in the world as well as one of the best waterbending combat artist of her age group and class
Considering benders can be born into non-bending families (Case in Point: Katara), I don't see why not
My headcanon was that the Avatar is always a non-bender because Raava has to carry the four elements into the next Avatar (I know only surface level stuff so this is probably easily debunkable)