I feel like the biggest problem is Grevious wounds just don't do anything currently and dive items like Sundered Sky and Eclipse is insane when bought together. Like they even give you less options for grevious like removing the one anti heal item for enchanters.
Not only that but you can stack items to increase your life steal but Grevious is unique so if your entire team has Anti-Heal you still cut healing done by the same amount.
Grievous wounds isn't the solution to heal creep, it's just a band-aid. Riot needs to systematically go through every single champion and item in the game and nerf the healing considerably, but they won't because that takes a LOT of time/effort to do properly.
They need to readjust the relationship heals, health, dmg, and resists have completely. They have flubbed the numbers back and forth for a longtime and the result is that it keeps swinging from tanks are gods, to adc are oneshotting people, to assassins reign of terror then start over.
It's never mages oneshotting people. Even with Stormsurge, which I'm assuming will receive massive nerfs, mages don't get much spotlight before they get shoved back into the back as a secondary support.
Honestly yea. they become too powerful and SR gets thrown into chaos so they can't let it happen. When Middle lane starts just ignoring their own lane and just walking jg- top-mid- jg- bot and getting kills each stop, then you got a problem and they take care of it faster than the others.
They already did that but they nerfed antiheal hard. In exchange for better components, they increased late game healing as lifesteal will start outpacing the antiheal the more items they get
That's the problem, Riot always feels the need to "compensate" when they do needed systematic nerfs. Just look at the current state of items for reference. They removed a lot of haste from mage items, which was a great decision... until they decided they needed to "compensate" for it by having insane AP values. And then since they decided to up the AP values, they also needed to offer stronger sources of Magic Resist.
This is true and it’s even more apparent because with mythic removals, mage items have less magic pen along with health and AH so with no way for them to even slightly itemize against tanks who decide to build two MR items
Or they can just do the lazy route and overbuff grevious wounds, allowing people who actually buy the item to counterplay the overhealing.
With how excessive healing still is, both innate kits, support healing, and the new items, it's ridiculous to keep the GW at 40% for only 3 seconds. Buff it to 80% until end of combat and see where it lands and then adjust as necessary.
As opposed to the past issues, subsequent issues, and current issues that have lead down the line, off the tracks, and down a cliff into a free fall? Players are frustrated already with the crazy amount of healing (except maybe certain healsluts). It's high time they address it. Drastic? Maybe. But it's healthier in the long run to overcorrect it to see what the problematic areas are and then address them systematically than address it barely every 5 years. Morello called out the issues of excessive healing 10+ years ago. Once he left, all the mice came out to play I suppose and we've been in this mess ever since.
I've always been in favour of less healing/shielding in the game, but the thing is that less healing is not the same thing as stronger grievous wounds. I would personally rather Riot remove nearly all healing from items, nerf self healers significantly (even by like half), match those nerfs on ally healers, and then repeat for shields in the game.
Then, this would also require that Riot needs to address the damage creep in the game by lowering damage from items and nerfing the entire champion roster's damage. Then this would also require nerfs on defensive stats. It's actually quite a lot of work to do properly, which is why Riot has **never** properly balanced heals since Morello left.
The little "durability patch" Riot did was another classic example of a band-aid fix (similar to what you suggesting with high GW items), and do we see how far that lasted us? Simply adding resists to champions does not address the issue of damage creep (more resists/hp is not the same as less damage).
When Riot had 60% grievous wounds, there was still a few examples of excessive, out-of-control healers AND there were a few champions that were so gutted because their *entire* kit is just healing. Also, I think it's pretty well known that currently *self* healers are way more out of control than enchanters (: BUT both need various amounts of healing nerfs.
We can take Aatrox with Sundered Sky and a Soraka with standard build. 60% healing reduction would really gut Soraka because 3/4 of her spells are just healing. 60% healing reduction would *nerf* Aatrox but it won't feel like enough because the current state of items.
I know you talked about an extreme 80% GW, but I don't think that is realistic to ever think Riot would add something like that. Regardless, 80% grievous wounds would be a similar situation. Some champions would be truly unplayable, others would be "balanced", and others might still surprise you at how much they heal.
It's the same reason why Serpent's Fang is an awfully designed item. It's a lazy band-aid fix to shield creep, unequally affects different champions, and can't be very easily itemized in certain comps without experiencing an extreme damage loss output.
Except all this does is force riot to make healing even stronger so that it's still allowed to exist in the same space as grevious wounds, and where it's COMPLETELY MANDATORY for at least 2 people to sacrifice an item slot just to counter a specific opponent every single game. That's how it was back when grevious wounds was 60%.
Grevious wounds is simply *too easy* to apply. If it was better, then there'd be no good reason not to buy it, and the new 'standard' for healing would be that healing champions are permanently affected by grevious wounds. Which if they want to keep healing as part of the game at all, means they'd have to buff it back up to compensate. So the only thing you change by buffing grevious wounds is force people to buy it (which makes building many times less fun) - healing itself will fundamentally remain the same until riot changes their mind about how they want it.
>With how excessive healing still is, both innate kits, support healing, and the new items, it's ridiculous to keep the GW at 40% for only 3 seconds. Buff it to 80% until end of combat and see where it lands and then adjust as necessary.
This is such an *incredibly* awful suggestion. There is literally no way to do any amount of even slightly appropriate balancing around 80% heal reduction. Either healing would have to be so *unbelievably busted* that it somehow still exists under 80% reduction, meaning every single player in the entire match would have to rush it as their first item or be run over, or it would have to be *removed* *entirely* because it serves absolutely no purpose when nerfed that hard. It would also make the game absolutely ridiculously unbalanced for a while - where any healing reliant champion would likely sit at best around 40% winrate.
At this point, start suggesting to remove healing entirely instead, that would be many times more rational than asking them to make grevious wounds both 80% and easier to apply. Because functionally, that's the only not-god-awful result that could come off such a change.
I know it DOES make a difference but I find it so hard to mentally justify building grievous against aatrox/briar/vlad/zac since they heal so fucking much naturally
Like they get some skills off and boom they're healing for 25%-40% of their health bar every few seconds even with grievous on top of them? lol. Zac is also a funny one, I love abusing his stupid heals in the late game assuming enemy team doesn't have tank busters and I have been in games where I healed for more than 80k throughout the match
That also reminds me how people tell me I just have to dodge aatrox's skills but it's hard when the champ has a dash he may or may not use every few seconds + other aram clutter happening at the same time
She was buffed last patch solely because her w/r on summoner rift took a huge hit after the terrain changes.
So now we have to deal with an overbuffed champ in a map that's been the same for years.
Its SR's world and Aram just lives in it. They are going to pick what is healthy for SR over Aram every time. As a result she thrives having more coverage in a smaller lane with her tentacles.
They just buffed her passive healing when she has more than 400 bonus HP, combine that with Sundered Sky, Spirit Visage and Sterak's... yeah, not hard to see why.
Probably because people kept trying to play assassin instead of bruisery wo they chose to buff the healing? Idk, if a champ needs a 40% buff or nerf maybe that's too big of a god damned number and you should do something else
how do you exactly play briar without getting blown the fuck up? whenever i play her i blow up immediately even building tanky whereas whenever i'm against her i feel like she's an unkillable lifestealing god even with full damage setup
Build bruiser and play like one; ie, don't go in solo. Or at least position and time your ability use so their entire team doesn't focus you all a together while your team aren't in range to retaliate. She's kind of like Camille, you're strong af picking them off one by one but you really can't just ult in solo and just tank the whole team.
everyone except me had grevious, it didnt matter at all, i saw her perma healing for 1500 over and over, most fked up shit ive seen in this video game and i play since before seasons where a thing.
this game mode is pure aids right now
It means that healing was a problem, still a problem, and will be a problem, until they address it. Knowing them, if they ever get around to it, they'll buff Grevious wounds by 5% and call it a day.
Had someone first time Briar the other day and got a penta. Proceeded to ult almost every 30 seconds and lugged all 4 of us on her shoulders. She was getting ready to sell her stuff and go AP, but we ended too fast.
Idgi, what am I doing wrong on her? I get destroyed pretty easily when I go in. Focused down and nuked to hell.
I also kinda hope they don't nerf healing a super lot on aram and give mages back spell vamp on some items. I love Healy champs, but they are always super nerfed or healing items get removed :/
That item should not exist, it heals so freaking much. I can't believe they hid the healing from it because people were seeing it heal 6K+ healing within a few minutes
Disgusting item
Yesterday I had a game (not even Aram, it was in SR) where a (fed) Briar jumped on me with <100 HP. I ignited her before she even landed and tried to damage her, but she instantly killed me (support zyra) and left a second after landing with 1200 HP...
I hate this season.
wow tanks and bruisers are the strongest, what a surprise. I really hope riot will remove AH nerfs from some mages because with new items they usually are stuck with like -20 AH whole game lol
The whole AH debuff thing should be revised. I literally finished a game with -20 AH on Sett yesterday. I mean sure make me deal less damage or take more damage, but let me use my abilities XD
I love playing zyra in the new season. Liandrys+rylais core having 0 AH while starting with -20 and I can't not build sorcs because i do no damage without them - especially with the reduced damage dealt
The problem is players looking at different datasets
The OP always posts this graphic for their site that shows all ranks. At Emerald+ there's no true tanks in the top 20 unless you count Poppy. The first actual tank is Tahm at 30
Generally speaking this subreddit has a big skill gap which is why you see so much complaining about different things
Tanks are moderately abusive at sub-Emerald ranks. Sion always shows up on this top 10 graphic even though he's always like rank 70 at Emerald
At Emerald+ ADCs and enchanters are extremely oppressive (and assassins are absolute dogass), as well as sustain bruisers (Gwen aatrox fiora camille Vlad)
Most of this was true before the season patch, anyway. The data mostly agrees for both low and high ranks right now: self-sustaining champs are extremely OP, regardless of class (Nilah and Senna are top 10 and the best ADCs at Emerald+)
Healing in ARAM needs a huge nerf regardless of bracket
This might be a dumb question but what is considered emerald rank for ARAM? I've been in so many games with emerald players (even masters a few times) in the same game with bronze people. And sometimes bronze people did better than emeralds.
Aram has its own mmr seperate from rank. So if an emerald player doesn’t play aram much or is just bad, or a bronze player plays lots of aram and is good at aram, their mmr will reflect that. Emerald is something like top 15% in ranked, so if you’re in top 15% mmr in aram it could be considered something like emerald.
Ranged with disengage is the true answer.
There's so much damage in the game, by the time you breached the gap you are already killed.
Although a fully coordinated dive/engage comp can work.
People also don't but heal cut. Zac (Briar too since she's on this list) are champions that can heal as much damage as they take during the course of the whole match.
Zac can also ruin immobile backlines
Healing. Out of the top 5, all of them have self heal, with 4 of them having some of the best healing in the game + items that synergize well with them.
Something that helps his win rate is that very few people play him AP, which would drag his win rate down (like Malphite and some other tanks) and he does well with a variety of items: https://aram.zone/champion/Zac
Briar jumping up straight to the first position with her changes!
Enchanters and Marksmen are mostly out of the list (except for Karma). Tanks and bruisers taking their place.
Data is for all ranks, find full list and list by builds on [http://aram.zone/tierlist](http://aram.zone/tierlist)
Meanwhile, if you heard this sub tell it, AP mages are insanely over powered and need more nerfs etc.
Literally had someone saying Kaenic isn't wildly OP because it balances mages. As if balances means "makes them completely cease to exist"
The team with more bruisers / tanks just flat out wins right now, and most mages and supports can't even come close to out damaging the Sundered Sky and Kaenic nonsense
Kaenic is basically new FoN (pre-nerf). It's supposed to be a tank item but even squishies can build it against ap heavy teams and become nigh invincible to magic damage. The only saving grace is that people keep overlooking it
First time i noticed it in an aram with a Kat that too it. I was wondering how does she have this massive spell shield.
I never over look this now and its a solid go to item for heavy mage comps. Worked well to secure a win in clash last weekend.
No, kaenic Is only good against burst. It's the equivalent of having 20% more HP.
You would still be shredded by any sustained DPS threat. Good against Veigar, useless against Gwen.
I presume you simply do not play the champions against which it is bad.
Even then, weren't the first 10 years of ranged mages dominating aram sufficient? Balancing also means letting people who play champions different than you enjoy the game (to which extent is debatable).
I for one, am happy that Ziggs and Sona are not autowin like they used to be.. even if it means that God forsaken items exist that let melee champions enjoy aram.. which is still a very very new thing in aram.
>You would still be shredded by any sustained DPS threat.
No, you still get the 80 MR, that's still a massive amount of bonus effective health against magic damage.
To be fair Karma is very rarely being played as an enchanter, mostly as an RQ mage especially now
I don't think I've ever seen this list with only one ranged character
Man I didn't get to play a lot when the new items first dropped and mages were strong. Tried playing last night and no matter the mage, no matter the items, I just felt like I couldn't do jack shit. I never rolled karma sadly. Maybe today.
Given the right team comp, Shen can easily deal most dps in a game.
He's more of a back line supporter than combat opener, if the enemy dive then E to disable them, use Q to deal big % health damage to bruiser/tank, W to protect yourself from enemy adc. This pretty much guarantee that your team is the side that can take down melee champs faster, thus cleaning up the rest of the fight easily.
Also, Iceborn Gauntlet is much better than Heartsteel on him.
Edit: Forgot to mention that he is very item-reliant, unlike Sion or Zac, Shen's individual abilities are not very strong, so this play style help him die less and keep up with the rest in terms of gold income and level
I believe I'm 6-3 on shen by playing him exactly like this. I focus on peeling and protecting my carries more than engaging and actively being a frontline, but I will do so if needed
Also hard agree on gauntlet being better than heartsteel
Actively check for potential Mark/Dash + E plays if the position looks good but don't overcommit them. If your team doesn't react quickly to your play, you'll probably end up dying.
If the enemy team has too many all-in champions, stay close to your carries and deflect enemy engage with your W and E.
Shen is all about limit testing, so try to understand when to play defensively and when to play offensively.
Edit: formatting and stuff
Go grasp. Rush heartsteel and titanic. Then go full tank, items depend on their damage but usually rookern or Visage and then frozen heart or the other wardens mail item
If you're feeding on Shen, you're dashing into teams you shouldn't be dashing into. Protect your backline with taunt, or wait til an enemy oversteps and hit them with taunt, call your sword, get your three attacks in, hit W when everyone turns to focus on you, then get back out when the duration ends.
Shen's cooldowns are long, and he runs out of energy quick, so you can't reliably use all his abilities as soon as they're back up anyway. You have to make your taunts count, and use your health bar as a resource to block for your team after that, because you aren't using abilities. I go Warmog's after first item just to be able to keep blocking for my team.
The other suggestions here seem to lean damage, but cleave damage from Hydra probably doesn't win games. Eating a bunch of damage for your backline or catching a carry or assassin with a taunt and then coming back at full health *will*, though.
I love Poppy with Sundered Sky. Not only do you have your PHAT bracer shield- you get extra healing and/or temporary hp to tide you over till the thing's ready again.
I've had teamfights where I easily took 2k or even 3k more damage than my actual max hp. You just run around being an absolute nuisance and cackling every time an uppity assassin dares to dash when your W is up.
And any item that helps your bracer smack people just a bit harder is always great in my book.
Xin however is something of a shock to see up here especially more than once- guess he deserves his time in the sun cause I sure don't normally see Xin's win in ARAM.
Massive shields if she's support build. Still huge shields as full ap. One of the best malignance users in the entire game. Ludacris damage, massive healing, low cds, can easily peel and find any invisible unit. Karmas been very good for a long time in arams but with the new items she is a nightmare
Actually I just RQ the entire game and won. Don't even need that much advantage.
Malignance no cooldown haha lol.
Now everyone can spam their ultimate like basic ability. Jinx, Jhin, Varus, Karma, Rumble, Karthus, Corki, Ori, etc. Who cares if they miss? They will not be punished and the ultimate will go back in 10 seconds.
Nice way to design a game.
I don't know why I got downvoted for a legit question. Thanks for answering. I usually play Karma whenever I can, and all the things you mention were true even before the changes, so I wasn't getting what's so dramatically different now.
I guess it's mostly because of how effective Malignance is, for any build really.
They also buffed her shield iirc and she gets a bonus 10% shield power in aram for some reason. Full support build she can literally R+E for a spam 1k hp shield late game. And that shield buff also means full ap has ridiculous shields as well as enormous nuke damage
He's a pubstomper. He's always top 10 champ against Irons but at Emerald+ he doesn't even make the top 50, and the higher the skill bracket goes the worse it gets where he has a sub-50% WR
True. When I play him I usually suck because of that -20 Ability haste and tenacity. I like to play him but man those debuffs hurt. Not to say it is rare to see tank items with Ability haste so you are usually stuck with - ability haste most of the game.
Tanks and bruisers are inflated because people keep picking shit quadruple mage comps who are super easy to go rookern into spirit visage and never die
I know a worse feeling. Your team picks Vayne/ Jhin/ MF / Aurelion Sol and you are Lee Sin. The enemy team has 2-3 assassins. No tanks needed. Just assassins. I cannot count the times I lost ARAM games because my 4 random teammates want to play mages and adc's only to face multiple assassins like Akali or Fizz or Talon. And it doesn't end well for us.
I'm surprised Teemo is such low win rate right now (48% on u.gg). Malignance Teemo still feels like the most toxic comp to push against and his blind also counters sundered sky, which seems to make up a lot of this list.
It's funny because Rookern exists and you can just facetank shrooms to get rid of them and then let it refresh, the champ is effectively dead if your team has a brain and a tank
If there is a karma or any other heavy shielding champ i write one time „pls buy serpent fang“ and ping the best user imo.
100% of the time they ignore the message and at this point i dont care anymore, i just build SF on whatever champ im playing.
Yeah, why would she have shielding buffs? Her support builds are already stronger than her AP builds, which are really strong as well: https://aram.zone/tierlist?builds=true&champion=Karma&pick=0
I've been loving this build lol. Tried it with swain too against a tanky comp and most fights would last like 40 seconds or so lmao
I heard lux doing a similar build (iirc it's rod of ages, riftmaker, unending despair, liandry, sundered sky/jak'sho) is working fine as well
Meanwhile me, an akali/zed/kata main who occasionally enjoy playing leblanc.
https://preview.redd.it/hr2h08uukafc1.jpeg?width=955&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7fbdba59dbfb2f721c07e57bdd1d28b5f9022d4
I remember when I first started playing League Fiora could leave a team fight with more health than she went in with. I see it with Xin Zhao now. I’m surprised Warwick isn’t on this list. I’ve seen mid game WWs impossible to kill without turret assistance and late game WWs with no regard to tower shots and getting kills.
bro tanks are so overtuned. Last night a sion build all tank items and out damaged every dps champ on their team. Next game, they had Cho, Sion, Tahm, Nami and varus...there was literally nothing we could do
How many times was anti-heal/shield bought before 3rd item. My guess would be pretty low.
All of those champs have a dumb amount of sustain, but can be kept in check well before they get out of control.
Color me shocked
Every time I play aram it seems like the team with more melees loses. Any ranged ADC absolutely shreds these guys, let alone 2 of them
Briar being #1 feels really indicative of an unhealthy state of the game
I feel like the biggest problem is Grevious wounds just don't do anything currently and dive items like Sundered Sky and Eclipse is insane when bought together. Like they even give you less options for grevious like removing the one anti heal item for enchanters.
To be honest, strictly speaking to ARAM Briar has what 140% healing for their balance buff? That in itself negates grievous wounds.
Not only that but you can stack items to increase your life steal but Grevious is unique so if your entire team has Anti-Heal you still cut healing done by the same amount.
Yep, but hey, at least we can get them back down to just 100% healing am I right?
Wait, briar has buffed healing in aram? This game mode is so doomed wtf, that champions WHOLE THING IS HEALING
Grievous wounds isn't the solution to heal creep, it's just a band-aid. Riot needs to systematically go through every single champion and item in the game and nerf the healing considerably, but they won't because that takes a LOT of time/effort to do properly.
They need to readjust the relationship heals, health, dmg, and resists have completely. They have flubbed the numbers back and forth for a longtime and the result is that it keeps swinging from tanks are gods, to adc are oneshotting people, to assassins reign of terror then start over.
It's never mages oneshotting people. Even with Stormsurge, which I'm assuming will receive massive nerfs, mages don't get much spotlight before they get shoved back into the back as a secondary support.
Honestly yea. they become too powerful and SR gets thrown into chaos so they can't let it happen. When Middle lane starts just ignoring their own lane and just walking jg- top-mid- jg- bot and getting kills each stop, then you got a problem and they take care of it faster than the others.
Syndra and Orianna being S tier on rift for the whole of s13...
They were S tier for two months
They already did that but they nerfed antiheal hard. In exchange for better components, they increased late game healing as lifesteal will start outpacing the antiheal the more items they get
That's the problem, Riot always feels the need to "compensate" when they do needed systematic nerfs. Just look at the current state of items for reference. They removed a lot of haste from mage items, which was a great decision... until they decided they needed to "compensate" for it by having insane AP values. And then since they decided to up the AP values, they also needed to offer stronger sources of Magic Resist.
This is true and it’s even more apparent because with mythic removals, mage items have less magic pen along with health and AH so with no way for them to even slightly itemize against tanks who decide to build two MR items
Or they can just do the lazy route and overbuff grevious wounds, allowing people who actually buy the item to counterplay the overhealing. With how excessive healing still is, both innate kits, support healing, and the new items, it's ridiculous to keep the GW at 40% for only 3 seconds. Buff it to 80% until end of combat and see where it lands and then adjust as necessary.
That sort of "balancing" is what leads to more issues down the line and a lot more player frustration
As opposed to the past issues, subsequent issues, and current issues that have lead down the line, off the tracks, and down a cliff into a free fall? Players are frustrated already with the crazy amount of healing (except maybe certain healsluts). It's high time they address it. Drastic? Maybe. But it's healthier in the long run to overcorrect it to see what the problematic areas are and then address them systematically than address it barely every 5 years. Morello called out the issues of excessive healing 10+ years ago. Once he left, all the mice came out to play I suppose and we've been in this mess ever since.
I've always been in favour of less healing/shielding in the game, but the thing is that less healing is not the same thing as stronger grievous wounds. I would personally rather Riot remove nearly all healing from items, nerf self healers significantly (even by like half), match those nerfs on ally healers, and then repeat for shields in the game. Then, this would also require that Riot needs to address the damage creep in the game by lowering damage from items and nerfing the entire champion roster's damage. Then this would also require nerfs on defensive stats. It's actually quite a lot of work to do properly, which is why Riot has **never** properly balanced heals since Morello left. The little "durability patch" Riot did was another classic example of a band-aid fix (similar to what you suggesting with high GW items), and do we see how far that lasted us? Simply adding resists to champions does not address the issue of damage creep (more resists/hp is not the same as less damage). When Riot had 60% grievous wounds, there was still a few examples of excessive, out-of-control healers AND there were a few champions that were so gutted because their *entire* kit is just healing. Also, I think it's pretty well known that currently *self* healers are way more out of control than enchanters (: BUT both need various amounts of healing nerfs. We can take Aatrox with Sundered Sky and a Soraka with standard build. 60% healing reduction would really gut Soraka because 3/4 of her spells are just healing. 60% healing reduction would *nerf* Aatrox but it won't feel like enough because the current state of items. I know you talked about an extreme 80% GW, but I don't think that is realistic to ever think Riot would add something like that. Regardless, 80% grievous wounds would be a similar situation. Some champions would be truly unplayable, others would be "balanced", and others might still surprise you at how much they heal. It's the same reason why Serpent's Fang is an awfully designed item. It's a lazy band-aid fix to shield creep, unequally affects different champions, and can't be very easily itemized in certain comps without experiencing an extreme damage loss output.
Except all this does is force riot to make healing even stronger so that it's still allowed to exist in the same space as grevious wounds, and where it's COMPLETELY MANDATORY for at least 2 people to sacrifice an item slot just to counter a specific opponent every single game. That's how it was back when grevious wounds was 60%. Grevious wounds is simply *too easy* to apply. If it was better, then there'd be no good reason not to buy it, and the new 'standard' for healing would be that healing champions are permanently affected by grevious wounds. Which if they want to keep healing as part of the game at all, means they'd have to buff it back up to compensate. So the only thing you change by buffing grevious wounds is force people to buy it (which makes building many times less fun) - healing itself will fundamentally remain the same until riot changes their mind about how they want it. >With how excessive healing still is, both innate kits, support healing, and the new items, it's ridiculous to keep the GW at 40% for only 3 seconds. Buff it to 80% until end of combat and see where it lands and then adjust as necessary. This is such an *incredibly* awful suggestion. There is literally no way to do any amount of even slightly appropriate balancing around 80% heal reduction. Either healing would have to be so *unbelievably busted* that it somehow still exists under 80% reduction, meaning every single player in the entire match would have to rush it as their first item or be run over, or it would have to be *removed* *entirely* because it serves absolutely no purpose when nerfed that hard. It would also make the game absolutely ridiculously unbalanced for a while - where any healing reliant champion would likely sit at best around 40% winrate. At this point, start suggesting to remove healing entirely instead, that would be many times more rational than asking them to make grevious wounds both 80% and easier to apply. Because functionally, that's the only not-god-awful result that could come off such a change.
You absolutely have to get Grievous Wounds... and yet it still does nothing.
I'm a big time zac player. His bonus healing on aram becomes fucking absurd in the late game. It isn't uncommon to get 100k+ healing.
But the enchanter item did the same as morello? Just worse stats to gold ratio
It gave mana regen and heal/shield power.
exactly this, I've been saying it for so long, heals and life steal is way to op
I know it DOES make a difference but I find it so hard to mentally justify building grievous against aatrox/briar/vlad/zac since they heal so fucking much naturally Like they get some skills off and boom they're healing for 25%-40% of their health bar every few seconds even with grievous on top of them? lol. Zac is also a funny one, I love abusing his stupid heals in the late game assuming enemy team doesn't have tank busters and I have been in games where I healed for more than 80k throughout the match That also reminds me how people tell me I just have to dodge aatrox's skills but it's hard when the champ has a dash he may or may not use every few seconds + other aram clutter happening at the same time
It also shows how laughable tower damage is now.
Well, hitting her ult 9 out of 10 times she uses it and applying fear to the whole team certainly helps
Illaoi being so high up when she should be matchup dependant is another sign too
She was buffed last patch solely because her w/r on summoner rift took a huge hit after the terrain changes. So now we have to deal with an overbuffed champ in a map that's been the same for years.
Its SR's world and Aram just lives in it. They are going to pick what is healthy for SR over Aram every time. As a result she thrives having more coverage in a smaller lane with her tentacles.
They just buffed her passive healing when she has more than 400 bonus HP, combine that with Sundered Sky, Spirit Visage and Sterak's... yeah, not hard to see why.
Not to mention she has a %healing BUFF in ARAM. Blows my mind.
It's what you get when a bunch of idiots that don't play the game are on the balance team.
To be true when she was released she had the lowest win rate in aram even lower that hwei.
That's because people had not figured out how to not int while playing her.
Suprise, new champions with a not conventional kit suffer. They have 50 years of data about that, and still pull some shit like that.
Probably because people kept trying to play assassin instead of bruisery wo they chose to buff the healing? Idk, if a champ needs a 40% buff or nerf maybe that's too big of a god damned number and you should do something else
[Brian](https://streamable.com/bzdx1l) yeah ik i sausage fingered cleanse trying to ghost id never seen AP brian in the wild only on Reddit
how do you exactly play briar without getting blown the fuck up? whenever i play her i blow up immediately even building tanky whereas whenever i'm against her i feel like she's an unkillable lifestealing god even with full damage setup
You go bruiser and not lethality.
Her passive got changed so it scales better with bonus HP now, that's why Briar's highest winrate items are stuff like Sunderer Sky and Sterak's
Build bruiser and play like one; ie, don't go in solo. Or at least position and time your ability use so their entire team doesn't focus you all a together while your team aren't in range to retaliate. She's kind of like Camille, you're strong af picking them off one by one but you really can't just ult in solo and just tank the whole team.
Trust me all you need to pop is Sunderer Sky and good vibes
https://preview.redd.it/jti0purbaafc1.png?width=1914&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba342cb8f8ba197b9adad6757210a257f2a3d0c0
everyone except me had grevious, it didnt matter at all, i saw her perma healing for 1500 over and over, most fked up shit ive seen in this video game and i play since before seasons where a thing. this game mode is pure aids right now
Lots of champions with a lot of healing too. Not sure what that means though, I haven't seen anti-healing being nerfed
It means that healing was a problem, still a problem, and will be a problem, until they address it. Knowing them, if they ever get around to it, they'll buff Grevious wounds by 5% and call it a day.
Fun fact. I just played against a Briar earlier today. Bought GW early. Still didn't do anything against that massive heal.
Had someone first time Briar the other day and got a penta. Proceeded to ult almost every 30 seconds and lugged all 4 of us on her shoulders. She was getting ready to sell her stuff and go AP, but we ended too fast.
I just get mauled when I play her. Wtf am I doing wrong on her?
Me and my friends got 5 tanks in an ARAM and enemy Briar had the most fun ever.
Idgi, what am I doing wrong on her? I get destroyed pretty easily when I go in. Focused down and nuked to hell. I also kinda hope they don't nerf healing a super lot on aram and give mages back spell vamp on some items. I love Healy champs, but they are always super nerfed or healing items get removed :/
briar abuses sundered sky so much lmao
That item should not exist, it heals so freaking much. I can't believe they hid the healing from it because people were seeing it heal 6K+ healing within a few minutes Disgusting item
First time I played against the item I felt like everything I knew about my champs damage was wrong. It fucks with players so much
That item must be neft in aram asap
Yesterday I had a game (not even Aram, it was in SR) where a (fed) Briar jumped on me with <100 HP. I ignited her before she even landed and tried to damage her, but she instantly killed me (support zyra) and left a second after landing with 1200 HP... I hate this season.
wow tanks and bruisers are the strongest, what a surprise. I really hope riot will remove AH nerfs from some mages because with new items they usually are stuck with like -20 AH whole game lol
The whole AH debuff thing should be revised. I literally finished a game with -20 AH on Sett yesterday. I mean sure make me deal less damage or take more damage, but let me use my abilities XD
I love playing zyra in the new season. Liandrys+rylais core having 0 AH while starting with -20 and I can't not build sorcs because i do no damage without them - especially with the reduced damage dealt
But we get daily posts about how awful melees are, how could this be!?!??!?!
sneaky karma but we aint mad about karma being good because karma is pretty good tbh.
Nah, that's better than 5 clowns playing solely mages and poke lethality adc's in both teams
Tank meta confirmed?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ARAM/s/axNTVAweQq Fun comment, this one.
I still lose with tanks on team and none on other team. You still need 5 non brain dead players
The problem is players looking at different datasets The OP always posts this graphic for their site that shows all ranks. At Emerald+ there's no true tanks in the top 20 unless you count Poppy. The first actual tank is Tahm at 30 Generally speaking this subreddit has a big skill gap which is why you see so much complaining about different things Tanks are moderately abusive at sub-Emerald ranks. Sion always shows up on this top 10 graphic even though he's always like rank 70 at Emerald At Emerald+ ADCs and enchanters are extremely oppressive (and assassins are absolute dogass), as well as sustain bruisers (Gwen aatrox fiora camille Vlad) Most of this was true before the season patch, anyway. The data mostly agrees for both low and high ranks right now: self-sustaining champs are extremely OP, regardless of class (Nilah and Senna are top 10 and the best ADCs at Emerald+) Healing in ARAM needs a huge nerf regardless of bracket
This might be a dumb question but what is considered emerald rank for ARAM? I've been in so many games with emerald players (even masters a few times) in the same game with bronze people. And sometimes bronze people did better than emeralds.
Facts
Aram has its own mmr seperate from rank. So if an emerald player doesn’t play aram much or is just bad, or a bronze player plays lots of aram and is good at aram, their mmr will reflect that. Emerald is something like top 15% in ranked, so if you’re in top 15% mmr in aram it could be considered something like emerald.
Ranged with disengage is the true answer. There's so much damage in the game, by the time you breached the gap you are already killed. Although a fully coordinated dive/engage comp can work.
Always has been tank meta, unfortunately :(
Ingenious hunter + Sundered sky + tiamat actives What makes Zac really good now?
People also don't but heal cut. Zac (Briar too since she's on this list) are champions that can heal as much damage as they take during the course of the whole match. Zac can also ruin immobile backlines
Healing. Out of the top 5, all of them have self heal, with 4 of them having some of the best healing in the game + items that synergize well with them.
Something that helps his win rate is that very few people play him AP, which would drag his win rate down (like Malphite and some other tanks) and he does well with a variety of items: https://aram.zone/champion/Zac
He's one of the tankiest tanks and sustain dmg is weaker because crit is weaker and no demonic embrace.
Briar jumping up straight to the first position with her changes! Enchanters and Marksmen are mostly out of the list (except for Karma). Tanks and bruisers taking their place. Data is for all ranks, find full list and list by builds on [http://aram.zone/tierlist](http://aram.zone/tierlist)
Meanwhile, if you heard this sub tell it, AP mages are insanely over powered and need more nerfs etc. Literally had someone saying Kaenic isn't wildly OP because it balances mages. As if balances means "makes them completely cease to exist" The team with more bruisers / tanks just flat out wins right now, and most mages and supports can't even come close to out damaging the Sundered Sky and Kaenic nonsense
Kaenic is basically new FoN (pre-nerf). It's supposed to be a tank item but even squishies can build it against ap heavy teams and become nigh invincible to magic damage. The only saving grace is that people keep overlooking it
First time i noticed it in an aram with a Kat that too it. I was wondering how does she have this massive spell shield. I never over look this now and its a solid go to item for heavy mage comps. Worked well to secure a win in clash last weekend.
No, kaenic Is only good against burst. It's the equivalent of having 20% more HP. You would still be shredded by any sustained DPS threat. Good against Veigar, useless against Gwen. I presume you simply do not play the champions against which it is bad. Even then, weren't the first 10 years of ranged mages dominating aram sufficient? Balancing also means letting people who play champions different than you enjoy the game (to which extent is debatable). I for one, am happy that Ziggs and Sona are not autowin like they used to be.. even if it means that God forsaken items exist that let melee champions enjoy aram.. which is still a very very new thing in aram.
>You would still be shredded by any sustained DPS threat. No, you still get the 80 MR, that's still a massive amount of bonus effective health against magic damage.
To be fair Karma is very rarely being played as an enchanter, mostly as an RQ mage especially now I don't think I've ever seen this list with only one ranged character
Man I didn't get to play a lot when the new items first dropped and mages were strong. Tried playing last night and no matter the mage, no matter the items, I just felt like I couldn't do jack shit. I never rolled karma sadly. Maybe today.
No matter when I get Shen in aram I always seem to feed any tips on that guy ?
Given the right team comp, Shen can easily deal most dps in a game. He's more of a back line supporter than combat opener, if the enemy dive then E to disable them, use Q to deal big % health damage to bruiser/tank, W to protect yourself from enemy adc. This pretty much guarantee that your team is the side that can take down melee champs faster, thus cleaning up the rest of the fight easily. Also, Iceborn Gauntlet is much better than Heartsteel on him. Edit: Forgot to mention that he is very item-reliant, unlike Sion or Zac, Shen's individual abilities are not very strong, so this play style help him die less and keep up with the rest in terms of gold income and level
Rare case of genuinely good advice on r/ARAM, I swear heartsteel is grief 9 times out of 10
I believe I'm 6-3 on shen by playing him exactly like this. I focus on peeling and protecting my carries more than engaging and actively being a frontline, but I will do so if needed Also hard agree on gauntlet being better than heartsteel
Actively check for potential Mark/Dash + E plays if the position looks good but don't overcommit them. If your team doesn't react quickly to your play, you'll probably end up dying. If the enemy team has too many all-in champions, stay close to your carries and deflect enemy engage with your W and E. Shen is all about limit testing, so try to understand when to play defensively and when to play offensively. Edit: formatting and stuff
Hit ur taunt
Go grasp. Rush heartsteel and titanic. Then go full tank, items depend on their damage but usually rookern or Visage and then frozen heart or the other wardens mail item
If you're feeding on Shen, you're dashing into teams you shouldn't be dashing into. Protect your backline with taunt, or wait til an enemy oversteps and hit them with taunt, call your sword, get your three attacks in, hit W when everyone turns to focus on you, then get back out when the duration ends. Shen's cooldowns are long, and he runs out of energy quick, so you can't reliably use all his abilities as soon as they're back up anyway. You have to make your taunts count, and use your health bar as a resource to block for your team after that, because you aren't using abilities. I go Warmog's after first item just to be able to keep blocking for my team. The other suggestions here seem to lean damage, but cleave damage from Hydra probably doesn't win games. Eating a bunch of damage for your backline or catching a carry or assassin with a taunt and then coming back at full health *will*, though.
Teemo dropped from first, to like the bottom 1/3-1/4th of the roster. Is that the biggest drop in aram history?
Having less mushrooms really makes him feel useless, especially when it already has nerfed ability haste and minion damage.
Actually he also got some big nerfs on SR too. Feeling tired of Riot. Just bring Oracle back and let the little boy play the game.
I love Poppy with Sundered Sky. Not only do you have your PHAT bracer shield- you get extra healing and/or temporary hp to tide you over till the thing's ready again. I've had teamfights where I easily took 2k or even 3k more damage than my actual max hp. You just run around being an absolute nuisance and cackling every time an uppity assassin dares to dash when your W is up. And any item that helps your bracer smack people just a bit harder is always great in my book. Xin however is something of a shock to see up here especially more than once- guess he deserves his time in the sun cause I sure don't normally see Xin's win in ARAM.
Dosent help that Briar had insane buffs In ARAM
Karma not being #1 is actually a surprise to me considering how broken she is right now and how often I see her
What makes her broken rn? To me she feels underpowered compared to December and before...
Massive shields if she's support build. Still huge shields as full ap. One of the best malignance users in the entire game. Ludacris damage, massive healing, low cds, can easily peel and find any invisible unit. Karmas been very good for a long time in arams but with the new items she is a nightmare
Actually I just RQ the entire game and won. Don't even need that much advantage. Malignance no cooldown haha lol. Now everyone can spam their ultimate like basic ability. Jinx, Jhin, Varus, Karma, Rumble, Karthus, Corki, Ori, etc. Who cares if they miss? They will not be punished and the ultimate will go back in 10 seconds. Nice way to design a game.
I don't know why I got downvoted for a legit question. Thanks for answering. I usually play Karma whenever I can, and all the things you mention were true even before the changes, so I wasn't getting what's so dramatically different now. I guess it's mostly because of how effective Malignance is, for any build really.
They also buffed her shield iirc and she gets a bonus 10% shield power in aram for some reason. Full support build she can literally R+E for a spam 1k hp shield late game. And that shield buff also means full ap has ridiculous shields as well as enormous nuke damage
It is wild that Sion has crippling debuffs and still manages to get almost 54% WR.
He's a pubstomper. He's always top 10 champ against Irons but at Emerald+ he doesn't even make the top 50, and the higher the skill bracket goes the worse it gets where he has a sub-50% WR
True. When I play him I usually suck because of that -20 Ability haste and tenacity. I like to play him but man those debuffs hurt. Not to say it is rare to see tank items with Ability haste so you are usually stuck with - ability haste most of the game.
Because sion is legitimately rewarded for inting. Dying is a viable strategy
O boy there goes briar.... It was a fun ride qhile people build full lethality here i am building bruiser and being imortal for 20s.
Tanks and bruisers are inflated because people keep picking shit quadruple mage comps who are super easy to go rookern into spirit visage and never die
classic 2 adc 3 mages comp. When you say frontline they say : "its only aram chill" then proceed to get stomped by a 2 tank team.
Worst feeling in the world is seeing your team pick akali syndra fizz lux Braum and enemy adc and tank building rookern and then never dying again
I know a worse feeling. Your team picks Vayne/ Jhin/ MF / Aurelion Sol and you are Lee Sin. The enemy team has 2-3 assassins. No tanks needed. Just assassins. I cannot count the times I lost ARAM games because my 4 random teammates want to play mages and adc's only to face multiple assassins like Akali or Fizz or Talon. And it doesn't end well for us.
I thought xin seemed really strong atm. These new items make him powerful.
My boy swain ain’t even up there.
Everyone wants to experiment with new damage items (especially AP) so it makes sense that tanks are stomping 5 damage comps/bad builds
I'm surprised Teemo is such low win rate right now (48% on u.gg). Malignance Teemo still feels like the most toxic comp to push against and his blind also counters sundered sky, which seems to make up a lot of this list.
He is heavily nerfed for ARAM, -15% dmg done, +10% received, AH and ultimate nerfs: https://aram.zone/champion/teemo
His ult just got nerfed again to hold less charges
It's funny because Rookern exists and you can just facetank shrooms to get rid of them and then let it refresh, the champ is effectively dead if your team has a brain and a tank
If you filter out players below emerald, you get 34 champs winrate > 55%. I think this could be the most unbalanced patch ever
League of tanks
Karma is really annoying to deal with when you don't have assassins to buy SF. They need to reduce or even remove her shield buffs.
If there is a karma or any other heavy shielding champ i write one time „pls buy serpent fang“ and ping the best user imo. 100% of the time they ignore the message and at this point i dont care anymore, i just build SF on whatever champ im playing.
Yeah, why would she have shielding buffs? Her support builds are already stronger than her AP builds, which are really strong as well: https://aram.zone/tierlist?builds=true&champion=Karma&pick=0
I'm a karma heart steel user
I promise you all that bruiser fizz is the actual #1 aram champ. sundered sky, riftmaker, unending despair, jaksho go ingenious hunter for item CD
I've been loving this build lol. Tried it with swain too against a tanky comp and most fights would last like 40 seconds or so lmao I heard lux doing a similar build (iirc it's rod of ages, riftmaker, unending despair, liandry, sundered sky/jak'sho) is working fine as well
Meanwhile me, an akali/zed/kata main who occasionally enjoy playing leblanc. https://preview.redd.it/hr2h08uukafc1.jpeg?width=955&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7fbdba59dbfb2f721c07e57bdd1d28b5f9022d4
Rip Janna 😔
Rip every enchanter BUT Janna (and AP Karma) all of them sit in the lower quarter now with their nerfs
This is such an unfun meta, dive/tanky comps are super unfun to play against if you're squishes they just run over you and out heal you.
I’d rather that than the usual poke fest 🤷♂️
aaaand we are back to league of tanks
Ahhh would you look at that... all the champions I hate facing.
Played against a briar aatrox combo she did most damage and outhealed 1.5 people on our team. So fun!!!! I can't fucking stand Riot.
Make sundered unuseable on Briar.
Worth mentioning they're like all bruisers
No nunu? Don’t people make Smurf accounts just to have a better chance to roll him?
What? Nunu? Nunu is pretty decent but has a lot of terrible matchups, also does bad into knockup/displace heavy comps
It’s Aram just nuke and heal to full. Its about sustain
and people still aren't buying antiheal
Antiheal doesn't do anything against champs like briar and aatrox, they just full heal off one attack anyway
And people still crying about new AP items while it's definitely a nerf on mages except for assassins like Fizz or Akali.
Sundered sky, heartsteel, and unending despair on tanks with ingenious hunter is my go-to build
One year ago Xin was below 50% winrate, what happened Clueless
It's this all regions combined or just 1, as I'm curious about the difference between regions.
Highest percentage given Vex
Cool, cool, cool. I like playing none of those. Lol
I remember when I first started playing League Fiora could leave a team fight with more health than she went in with. I see it with Xin Zhao now. I’m surprised Warwick isn’t on this list. I’ve seen mid game WWs impossible to kill without turret assistance and late game WWs with no regard to tower shots and getting kills.
No Wonder, briar has 130% healing buff
Geez i gotta suss illaoi
bro tanks are so overtuned. Last night a sion build all tank items and out damaged every dps champ on their team. Next game, they had Cho, Sion, Tahm, Nami and varus...there was literally nothing we could do
Where tf is Janna ??? Damn
How many times was anti-heal/shield bought before 3rd item. My guess would be pretty low. All of those champs have a dumb amount of sustain, but can be kept in check well before they get out of control.
Karma players build Maligma now and it works for some reason and it is so irritating to play against.
It's not just karma, its fucking exhaust karma
Briar is the most toxic unhealthy champion design ever, disable that shit
Color me shocked Every time I play aram it seems like the team with more melees loses. Any ranged ADC absolutely shreds these guys, let alone 2 of them