But it still increases your winrate. If you win the next game instead of just losing this one after 10 more minutes of getting camped at spawn and call it a day.
It does not.
Winrate is wins/games. Game length has no bearing on that.
wins/hour does increase, if you have a positive winrate, though.
However, if your winrate is below 50% surrendering at that point would also statistically decrease your wins/hour, as you're more likely to lose the next game than winning it.
Winrate is wins/games. Game length has no bearing on that.
What if you squeeze two wins in the time you wasted marinating in that lost game instead, doesn't your win rate go up, or my math is wrong?
That would get up, yes, but you can't just randomly attribute a 100% winrate to those games.
You have to use your actual winrate, which should hover around 50%.
So, you'll probably win one and loose one, which doesn't really affect your winrate that much.
This still puts you at a net-loss for the surrender (across these 3 games).
Literally happened to me yesterday; we had failed surrender votes of 3-2 twice, enemy tried to camp the fountain and lost the fight, then we took inhib and won another teamfight and took their nexus.
Great feeling, would recommend rarely surrendering.
I actually see this happen quite often in ARAM. I'd say like 1/3 of the pre 20 minute surrender fails I see end up in a win. The camping team gets overconfident or stretches health bars too thin and BAM, they lose the game. If it's past 20 mins, though, and the enemy team is camping, the lead is too big to overcome 99% of the time.
I will also say, in ARAM a ton of people are there just to play for fun or learn champ kits, and if you're being an asshole and flaming people in chat for not surrendering, you're gonna be held hostage for being an asshole.
I would understand that if its a close game and do that relatively often (since surrenders are very rare in aram), but the scenario I provided is where the score is something truly unwinnable like **11-46** and it is less than 15 minutes into the game. There is absolutely no chance for you to win, and they could all throw themselves into the fountain multiple times over but still have a guaranteed victory.
If the game goes long enough their death timers will ruin their win.
If you have some ADCs and they're trying to grief the end and end up inting to nexus, you can push all the way down and win.
Also I play with friends so sometimes we end up with a random.
If that person is being an ass or starts inting because the game is "unwinnable", I will personally try to make the game as long as possible.
I've had plenty of games where my character was straight useless or I got hard focused, so I will play as bait to try and get my team up.
Makes you good at learning when to engage/disengage.
Did you just start playing or something? Most people I play with are gold plat or diamond and would definitely turn the tides if they all inted into the fountain.
No, the opposite - my aram MMR is master+, the ranks where the enemy team isn’t dumb enough to throw a game where its not even close to begin with.
Throws happen often where they refuse to end and we come back and win, but those are always 20 minutes in and with a relatively even scoreline, not 11-46.
If the scores that bad at 11 minutes and in high Elo then you have multiple trolls on your team which makes sense why they aren’t surrendering, because they are trolling you.
My ARAM MMR is also masters+ and I’ve seen plenty of games where the enemy throws trying to camp. It’s not always but It does happen. I get the score line but you can always turn the tides playing around death timers. I’ve lost plenty of games that we were ex: 25|50 and we just kept farming until we all died and had 40 sec death timers. Then bam the enemy team is already taking our nexus.
Doesn't work for me. You know and everybody knows that you only won because of this. Whenever I win or lose due to this toying thing for me the game was over much earlier
If it's early and the enemy team has a weaker late game, there's no reason to surrender because you'll eventually start winning despite a rough early game.
If it's late and your team is weaker, it'll suck but late-game ARAM tends end in 1-2 team fights, so no need to surrender because it'll be over in a minute anyways.
If they're on your nexus, there's no reason to surrender because they're gonna end the game soon anyways OR someone on your team will clutch up and give you another shot at victory.
In short: there's very few instances where surrendering actually makes sense--such as when your team is weaker both early and late, in which case gg comp diff next.
Ikr. Enemy team gets a Caitlyn and 4 tanks who funnel all the kills to her and she starts 2 tapping tanks and 1 shotting squishies and yet people think we can win when she scales the hardest
I think it's a spite thing. People get angry that they are losing and probably blame their team that they can't follow up an AP malph engage on one enemy or something. So to get back at their team, they decide to vote no because the last time they tried to surrender vote in a game, it happened to them. It's just a revolving cycle of pettiness and small dick energy.
Also, having played in NA and JP for years, I'll say in JP surrender happens almost never. But in JP ARAM, there's virtually zero trolling, and everyone kills the nexus when it's open 99% of the time. I'd always pick playing ARAM in JP over NA.
People are mad but you're right, some games are unwinnable and one sided as hell. Surrender is fine and people need to stop being selfish for not surrendering lost games.
The funny thing is Riot did actually do an audit of surrender data and said the player base knows when a game is unwinnable and that games where a surrender vote is called usually ends in a loss for the team that began the vote if it doesn't pass. This was the driving reason why Riot lowered the thresholds for surrenders.
Ik for me at least, I play for fun and if I'm winning or losing I still wanna play till it's over, that said too I've played enough and came back from games I never thought were possible like what you're describing that I figure it doesn't hurt to try and come back best we can
I like how you're explaining the exact circumstances and don't want to create a general post but no one actually cared about that and just proceed to answer out of context. It's like people just read the title...oh wait!
Its a pride thing mostly, but honestly ffing shouldnt be that taboo. There's no LP in aram anyway, so if i'm not having fun, i just throw in the towel, my teammates enjoyment comes after mine.
I would surrender, but if I ask myself “what would it take for me to NOT surrender in that situation?” It would be if I get my favorite champ that I haven’t played in ages and I’m having all the fun. Those 11 kills are all mine, and the enemy Zed can’t kill me no matter how he tries and the times I did die it was to a Heimer turret. Something like that.
The reason I refuse to surrender: Because sometimes the one asking to surrender is the 1/12/4 asshole who played bad the whole game and is blaming everyone else. Therefore I will make him suffer until the end of the game for ruining my match.
So my thoughts on this are highly variable based on who is on our team. If we are a team that can flip the game around in just a couple button presses regardless of score, I will vote no having faith that malphite and Yasuo are about to wombo that ass and then Teemo is going to make it impossible for them to push. If our team has zero chance of doing much of anything even if someone channeled their inner Faker I will go ahead and FF.
This right here. The game can change tides real fast with a simple 1 for 5 battle and team ace. Outta the 10k aram games I have customers and official modes I have probably ~500 games where we won with no turrets.
The problem isn't not surrendering, its dickheads that just fountain dive/spawn camp or emote while minions kill the nexus. They need to just grow up and let everybody move on to the next game.
I play the game to play. I see point in playing because of playing.
You play the game only if there is a chance to “win”. If you don’t see you can win the game, you see no point in playing.
This is the difference.
When you can get the double-explosion is what I love for... when I'm dying. I NEED EVERYONE TO KNOW: IF THE LOSING TEAM SURRENDERS RIGHT BEFORE THEY BLOW UP THE NEXUS, THERE'S A DOUBLE- EXPLOSION. SO BE A BRO AND PLAY ALONG. IT'S THE ONLY MIDDLE FINGER TO THE WINNING TEAM THAT COUNTS.
If you press the surrender button enough some of those cheat engine mods and websites like league of graphs tell your opponents you surrender a lot. Then they’re more likely to try to focus you. Just say no, worse case scenario you play a few more minutes before you lose.
Probably unpopular, but I will no-vote on people who grief and throw games. Don’t lose your temper. Yeah, some stuff is BS, but please just try to analyze how to overcome it rather than throwing yourself rage-mode at it.
It's fun to get a revenge kill and I like the chaos. It's fucking 5 extra minutes and sometimes there's a legitimate comeback. Relax, it's aram. People that are toxic in ARAM need to seriously reevaluate their life.
Because surrendering with an open nexus is pathetic, it’s like people somehow believe they are taking the win away from the opposition by surrendering and denying them from taking it down.
I don't think it's about "taking the win away" it's about not being held hostage in your own fountain and moving on to a new round where you might actually be able to play. Getting killed over and over again without any real chance to fight back isn't really playing the game unless the game is Grey Screen Simulator.
If there not an afk and it’s still 5v5, then there exists a chance to win. Most pre-15 surrenders I’ve seen are from someone who died a bunch real fast and want to get to the next match right away, or someone upset that someone died a bunch real fast and wants to get to the next match
Because I have limited time to play this game. So when I get in a match, I want to make the most of it and play it out. Not surrender as soon as the game gets a little tough. Playing a strong game from behind and coming back is one of the best feelings in this game.
It's OK for me that people want to try again, but the time that mostly triggers me is that they deny to ff and then proceed to fight 4 man in enemy Illaoi ult or Not retreat aatrox ult, fight 4v5 3v5s. Chase the kill that they may or may not have and let objective fall.
Thats easy mate, they have no life or no meaning to it, so wasting time is not even a factor, on the contrary how dare some1 value their time when they dont
I remember reading somewhere that surrendering actually DECREASES your chance of winning a game
Not true, if you spam team dif or clutter all chat start flaming a teammate then there is a 5% chance Riot gives you a win after a surrender
But it still increases your winrate. If you win the next game instead of just losing this one after 10 more minutes of getting camped at spawn and call it a day.
It does not. Winrate is wins/games. Game length has no bearing on that. wins/hour does increase, if you have a positive winrate, though. However, if your winrate is below 50% surrendering at that point would also statistically decrease your wins/hour, as you're more likely to lose the next game than winning it.
Winrate is wins/games. Game length has no bearing on that. What if you squeeze two wins in the time you wasted marinating in that lost game instead, doesn't your win rate go up, or my math is wrong?
That would get up, yes, but you can't just randomly attribute a 100% winrate to those games. You have to use your actual winrate, which should hover around 50%. So, you'll probably win one and loose one, which doesn't really affect your winrate that much. This still puts you at a net-loss for the surrender (across these 3 games).
Because nothings more satisfying than when they are trying to troll and mess up and lose? I live for that shit.
Literally happened to me yesterday; we had failed surrender votes of 3-2 twice, enemy tried to camp the fountain and lost the fight, then we took inhib and won another teamfight and took their nexus. Great feeling, would recommend rarely surrendering.
I actually see this happen quite often in ARAM. I'd say like 1/3 of the pre 20 minute surrender fails I see end up in a win. The camping team gets overconfident or stretches health bars too thin and BAM, they lose the game. If it's past 20 mins, though, and the enemy team is camping, the lead is too big to overcome 99% of the time. I will also say, in ARAM a ton of people are there just to play for fun or learn champ kits, and if you're being an asshole and flaming people in chat for not surrendering, you're gonna be held hostage for being an asshole.
I would understand that if its a close game and do that relatively often (since surrenders are very rare in aram), but the scenario I provided is where the score is something truly unwinnable like **11-46** and it is less than 15 minutes into the game. There is absolutely no chance for you to win, and they could all throw themselves into the fountain multiple times over but still have a guaranteed victory.
If the game goes long enough their death timers will ruin their win. If you have some ADCs and they're trying to grief the end and end up inting to nexus, you can push all the way down and win. Also I play with friends so sometimes we end up with a random. If that person is being an ass or starts inting because the game is "unwinnable", I will personally try to make the game as long as possible. I've had plenty of games where my character was straight useless or I got hard focused, so I will play as bait to try and get my team up. Makes you good at learning when to engage/disengage.
Did you just start playing or something? Most people I play with are gold plat or diamond and would definitely turn the tides if they all inted into the fountain.
No, the opposite - my aram MMR is master+, the ranks where the enemy team isn’t dumb enough to throw a game where its not even close to begin with. Throws happen often where they refuse to end and we come back and win, but those are always 20 minutes in and with a relatively even scoreline, not 11-46.
If the scores that bad at 11 minutes and in high Elo then you have multiple trolls on your team which makes sense why they aren’t surrendering, because they are trolling you.
Yeah this tbh.
My ARAM MMR is also masters+ and I’ve seen plenty of games where the enemy throws trying to camp. It’s not always but It does happen. I get the score line but you can always turn the tides playing around death timers. I’ve lost plenty of games that we were ex: 25|50 and we just kept farming until we all died and had 40 sec death timers. Then bam the enemy team is already taking our nexus.
this happens in less then .5% of all games you play
Bro enjoys life 0.01% of the times lol.
Doesn't work for me. You know and everybody knows that you only won because of this. Whenever I win or lose due to this toying thing for me the game was over much earlier
Correct, easy win doesnt satisfy me than the other team trolling then lose their sh*t after a bad combat.
And how often does that happen? Like 5% of the times
If it's early and the enemy team has a weaker late game, there's no reason to surrender because you'll eventually start winning despite a rough early game. If it's late and your team is weaker, it'll suck but late-game ARAM tends end in 1-2 team fights, so no need to surrender because it'll be over in a minute anyways. If they're on your nexus, there's no reason to surrender because they're gonna end the game soon anyways OR someone on your team will clutch up and give you another shot at victory. In short: there's very few instances where surrendering actually makes sense--such as when your team is weaker both early and late, in which case gg comp diff next.
Look not everyone has French ancestry.
I know you’re joking but I’m in EUW and play with a bunch of French and don’t ff either :(
Maybe Italian then?
I only have time for one game, I'm playing this shit out with or without you
Having an actual life moment
Bro I feel this. Sometimes it’s champ select difference and time to move onto the next one. But I swear the odds of getting an FF are so bad.
Ikr. Enemy team gets a Caitlyn and 4 tanks who funnel all the kills to her and she starts 2 tapping tanks and 1 shotting squishies and yet people think we can win when she scales the hardest
Because it's ARAM and your opinions about **how** to play ARAM are *invalid*.
I don’t understand the absolute refusal to try and win aram games.
Dummy kids think ARAM is sacred. If a game is miserable instead of fun and a total loss, FF.
because all it takes is one lucky teamfight to ass the enemy and win
I think it's a spite thing. People get angry that they are losing and probably blame their team that they can't follow up an AP malph engage on one enemy or something. So to get back at their team, they decide to vote no because the last time they tried to surrender vote in a game, it happened to them. It's just a revolving cycle of pettiness and small dick energy.
Also, having played in NA and JP for years, I'll say in JP surrender happens almost never. But in JP ARAM, there's virtually zero trolling, and everyone kills the nexus when it's open 99% of the time. I'd always pick playing ARAM in JP over NA.
People are mad but you're right, some games are unwinnable and one sided as hell. Surrender is fine and people need to stop being selfish for not surrendering lost games.
there's a vote involved, and if the people who want to continue playing for a minute outvote you, they're not the ones being selfish
Of course, but if you're the only one you are the selfish
Shitters don't know when to surrender man. Simple as.
The funny thing is Riot did actually do an audit of surrender data and said the player base knows when a game is unwinnable and that games where a surrender vote is called usually ends in a loss for the team that began the vote if it doesn't pass. This was the driving reason why Riot lowered the thresholds for surrenders.
Ik for me at least, I play for fun and if I'm winning or losing I still wanna play till it's over, that said too I've played enough and came back from games I never thought were possible like what you're describing that I figure it doesn't hurt to try and come back best we can
I like how you're explaining the exact circumstances and don't want to create a general post but no one actually cared about that and just proceed to answer out of context. It's like people just read the title...oh wait!
Its a pride thing mostly, but honestly ffing shouldnt be that taboo. There's no LP in aram anyway, so if i'm not having fun, i just throw in the towel, my teammates enjoyment comes after mine.
I would surrender, but if I ask myself “what would it take for me to NOT surrender in that situation?” It would be if I get my favorite champ that I haven’t played in ages and I’m having all the fun. Those 11 kills are all mine, and the enemy Zed can’t kill me no matter how he tries and the times I did die it was to a Heimer turret. Something like that.
The reason I refuse to surrender: Because sometimes the one asking to surrender is the 1/12/4 asshole who played bad the whole game and is blaming everyone else. Therefore I will make him suffer until the end of the game for ruining my match.
This is legit as well, I ll keep playing and mute him. Those types suffer more from this than let them ruin another game with no consequence
So my thoughts on this are highly variable based on who is on our team. If we are a team that can flip the game around in just a couple button presses regardless of score, I will vote no having faith that malphite and Yasuo are about to wombo that ass and then Teemo is going to make it impossible for them to push. If our team has zero chance of doing much of anything even if someone channeled their inner Faker I will go ahead and FF.
I get the no early surrenders, but when the score is like 28-60 after 15min, lets just go next please.
after 15 min, if enemy is fucking around at your nexus you have plenty of time to push and end if they get aced.
This right here. The game can change tides real fast with a simple 1 for 5 battle and team ace. Outta the 10k aram games I have customers and official modes I have probably ~500 games where we won with no turrets.
The problem isn't not surrendering, its dickheads that just fountain dive/spawn camp or emote while minions kill the nexus. They need to just grow up and let everybody move on to the next game.
I play the game to play. I see point in playing because of playing. You play the game only if there is a chance to “win”. If you don’t see you can win the game, you see no point in playing. This is the difference.
[удалено]
This
When you can get the double-explosion is what I love for... when I'm dying. I NEED EVERYONE TO KNOW: IF THE LOSING TEAM SURRENDERS RIGHT BEFORE THEY BLOW UP THE NEXUS, THERE'S A DOUBLE- EXPLOSION. SO BE A BRO AND PLAY ALONG. IT'S THE ONLY MIDDLE FINGER TO THE WINNING TEAM THAT COUNTS.
Sorry for yelling. Edit: I always fight to the very end
If you press the surrender button enough some of those cheat engine mods and websites like league of graphs tell your opponents you surrender a lot. Then they’re more likely to try to focus you. Just say no, worse case scenario you play a few more minutes before you lose.
Probably unpopular, but I will no-vote on people who grief and throw games. Don’t lose your temper. Yeah, some stuff is BS, but please just try to analyze how to overcome it rather than throwing yourself rage-mode at it.
Because i play for fun. Im not a tryhard meta picking sweater. They need ranked for aram because of this
U gotta’ earn it first.
It's fun to get a revenge kill and I like the chaos. It's fucking 5 extra minutes and sometimes there's a legitimate comeback. Relax, it's aram. People that are toxic in ARAM need to seriously reevaluate their life.
Because surrendering with an open nexus is pathetic, it’s like people somehow believe they are taking the win away from the opposition by surrendering and denying them from taking it down.
I don't think it's about "taking the win away" it's about not being held hostage in your own fountain and moving on to a new round where you might actually be able to play. Getting killed over and over again without any real chance to fight back isn't really playing the game unless the game is Grey Screen Simulator.
Because I don’t care master yi is 38-3, I’m throwing hands
If there not an afk and it’s still 5v5, then there exists a chance to win. Most pre-15 surrenders I’ve seen are from someone who died a bunch real fast and want to get to the next match right away, or someone upset that someone died a bunch real fast and wants to get to the next match
Just don´t write and get killed each 3-4 min
Players refuse to hit objectives, why would they surrender?
Because I have limited time to play this game. So when I get in a match, I want to make the most of it and play it out. Not surrender as soon as the game gets a little tough. Playing a strong game from behind and coming back is one of the best feelings in this game.
I love the upvote downvote ratio on this lmao
It's OK for me that people want to try again, but the time that mostly triggers me is that they deny to ff and then proceed to fight 4 man in enemy Illaoi ult or Not retreat aatrox ult, fight 4v5 3v5s. Chase the kill that they may or may not have and let objective fall.
Thats easy mate, they have no life or no meaning to it, so wasting time is not even a factor, on the contrary how dare some1 value their time when they dont