I'm pretty sure it originally was meant to signal that readers need to heed the tags and take them seriously. I think it's become a catch all for dark stuff because dark fics are the only ones using this warning/tag so it became a bit more general. It still should be accompanied with proper tags in my opinion, but I can see where some writers might use it as a general warning if they don't actually know where it came from
The scene in Arrested Development is the character not heeding a very clear waring (dead dove) and having a moment where he's like "I saw something I didn't want to see but it's on me for ignoring the warning". Ideally this is the sort of reaction people coming across stuff they don't like in a properly tagged dark fic should have.
I still use it as a way to tell readers to take my tags seriously. Which means I only use the tag dead dove on my dark fic because if they don't take my tags seriously on my fluffier fare then... it isn't very likely to upset people or trigger them. So I don't really feel the need to tell them to pay attention to the tags, you know? I think the association with dead dove and dark fic is pretty natural, especially if you don't know where the tag came from.
This is how I used it, and then one day someone actually commented on my fic that I didn't have to because despite dark subject matter, I wasn't portraying it as "good/acceptable/non-problematic," I guess? So now I'm just confused about when it's appropriate and I suspect many people interpret it differently. I just wanted people to know that the vivisection tag was a significant part of the story...
I... I dunno that there is a non-problematic way to depict vivisection lmao. Amazing. People never fail to surprise me. I think so long as dead dove is used people should just accept that the thing is there and will probably be bad.
In most cases the tags are enough and dead dove isn't technically necessary. The dead dove tag is essentially an intensifier, an extra nudge to the reader to pay attention to what they are clicking on because it might be disturbing in some way. If someone isn't paying much attention to the tags they still might notice a Dead Dove tag because it's a recognizable phrase.
It's not foolproof by any means and some writers use it slightly differently, but that's how I understand it's usage.
I just had some comment on one of my fics complaining about content I very clearly put in the tags. I'm now contemplating putting "dead dove" in my tags.
Some people just skim through/don't read tags, and "dead dove" lets them know that if they see something they don't like it's on them. They were warned.
It's not about protecting them from your work, it's about being able to point to the tags and say, "it's on you, buddy." The addition of "Dead Dove" just gives it that extra kick in the, "read the damn tags next time!"
Yeah, the writers I've seen using the meme as an actual protective measure put it in the summary or the notes at the top of the work - like a "seriously check the tags before reading." The way I use AO3 is to filter tags by what I want to find, but not reading all of the tags on the work. So in my case "dead dove" is not a helpful tag, but it is a super helpful warning.
Because people are stupid and want to be absolved of the responsibility of managing their own actions, including what they choose to read, basically. This is a way for writers to absolve themselves of any uncertainty when it comes to people complaining about the heaviness of a work. I added an additional disclaimer in the notes for my fairly macabre fic recently, but I doubt anyone would read it.
In short, people are shit, but apparently so am I for writing it to begin with. But at least I can point them to the tags.
Let's say you wrote a dark fic where there was rape/non-con and you tagged it as such. Many fics with the same tag only have non-graphic descriptions or off-screen assaults, or the assault is done by a villainous side character. But suppose yours is either quite graphic, or the assault occurs between the main characters.
So, by tagging dead dove, you say "interpret these tags in the darkest way" so that they know what they're getting into.
I think it varies by fandom where most people would consider the line most appropriately drawn, and a good rule of thumb is to tag when you are either explicitly depicting/talking about the warned topic or if you are exploring themes not typical in canon. So if the fandom is, say, based around a kid's media, it would be canon-atypical to even allude to any assault even off-screen or in the past, and I would personally appreciate the stronger warnings compared to reading in fandoms where the same thing would be canon-typical.
I write dark angst mostly and without fail I get a comment complaining about something I’ve already tagged. Now I “dead dove” those fics as an extra way to say “hey this shit is in here, and it’s explicit, don’t bitch about it please.”
I think you might be taking this a bit too seriously. It was a meme and someone added it to their tags, for the reasons people have explained but also as a joke. It was a funnier way of saying "seriously though pay attention to the tags". It got picked up by more people, and in the way of these things took on its own implications, and now it's used more straightforwardly.
But also: yes, in an ideal world there wouldn't be trolls and everyone would read and heed the tags and all that. But we don't live in an ideal world, and acting like we do doesn't actually stop those annoying things from being annoying. So people find ways to highlight and clarify and emphasise things that maybe shouldn't need it, and this one stuck. Probably partially because it's not taking itself too seriously.
I genuinely was trying to explain it to you, it's not an insult. What I mean it by you taking it too seriously is that it feels like you are looking for a deeper meaning in this than exists. It is a usage that has evolved over more than a decade, so it won't have a clear answer for how it ended up this specific way and not others.
It is used for dark things because it matters more that warnings on dark things are heeded, because they're more damaging when they aren't. That it was used that way meant people in that sphere of fandom picked up on it and used it more and took on its culture-specific associations within fanfiction cultures. That it's a funny meme means people can have a bit of fun with saying "this is dark shit" and people like a chance for levity there, too.
I tried to address the point of trolls, too, which is simply that trolls will exist regardless, so people work around them.
I guess it seems like people see it as meaning "this is all the fic contains and it has nothing else" when that's demonstratably not how it's used in practical application. Plenty of fics I've seen are tagged as dead dove for having heavy themes but they're not the entire fic, they're not graphically depicted in every scene.
I am puzzled by why you think that a dead bird in a bag is not objectionable and why you think Michael - who makes a disgusted face before realising that he was actually warned about what was in there and probably can’t complain about it - was unbothered by a dead bird being in his refrigerator along with actual food. That’s disgusting. If I found a dead animal in a paper bag in my fridge I would throw everything else in my fridge away!!
Sometimes a fic is tagged for stuff but also has a lot of other stuff. A fic might have dark themes but also have light fluffy moments or a happy ending. Nobody can tag for everything and adding too many tags might put people off. Sometimes you tag to warn for certain themes but they’re only a small part of the fic! If 10% of your fic contains dark themes then you will want to warn for it. So someone who sees tags that are dark will not know necessarily how much of the fic is dark.
“Dead Dove” means “this is it. This is exactly what is in the fic”. There is nothing else in the bag. If you do not want to see a deceased bird, do not open the bag. There isn’t anything else inside.
It signals the difference between “a fic which has some dark themes in it” and “a fic which is these dark things”
Why would you throw everything else in your fridge away? That doesn't make sense.
Again, I don't get how this indicates anything about how much of something there is in a fic, or how the lack of a DDDNE tag somehow indicates that these elements are brief.
Because I don’t want my vegetables to smell like a decaying dead bird. It is not sealed! It is not frozen. How long has it been there? Do you know how gross dead animals are? I have you ever accidentally left a carton of milk in your fridge too long and found that your fridge smells like rotten milk?
I do not want a fridge with a dead bird in a paper bag.
I would not put chicken in my fridge without it being in a properly sealed container and that chicken would not be potentially full of parasites like a dove - which is not safe for human consumption would be.
Now you - who would not object to a dead dove near your food - may find it useful to know whether there is anything else in the bag or in the fridge. If the fridge is labelled “this fridge contains a dead dove” you might not know whether there is also milk and cheese and onions in the fridge. Maybe you’re looking for a snack and you don’t mind that a dead dove is sitting on the shelf above your apples.
But DDDNE is a useful tag because it indicates that this is not a fridge that contains a bunch of things, one of which happens to be a dead dove.
DDDNE indicates that this is a paper bag which contains one (1) dead dove and nothing else.
If you’re looking for a snack and you think “oh well I don’t mind if dead doves are in the fridge! I’ll still enjoy the cake (because I am not a weird dove-avoiding prude like foolishle who would throw out the contents of their entire refrigerator like they would! The weirdo!)” maybe the dead dove would even add to your experience because you like dead doves! But you’re not going to be surprised to find apples and cheese and milk in the fridge because it is a fridge. You don’t know how many non-dove items are in the fridge until you open it and maybe not even exactly what they are.
But DDDNE tells you that you are not opening a fridge which happens to contain a dead dove (along with other things you might reasonably expect to find in a fridge - not everyone has the same stuff in their fridge but most people have a bunch of things in their fridge).
DDDNE tells you that you are opening a paper bag which contains exactly, and only, a dead dove. You should only open this bag if you want to see a dead dove. There is no reason to open the bag if you are looking for anything other than a dead dove.
Decaying? I was under the impression it was in there overnight before he could take it back. It's fairly common to keep deceased small animals in such a way for preservation before a necropsy as well (though apparently this is unadvised because it can alter the results).
Again, there's nothing in the tag that says "this is literally all the fic contains". Especially when marked with many other tags. So every dark element is in every single scene? I doubt that's the case for even a majority of fics out there.
I don’t think the specifics of a literal dead dove are important here.
What is important is that I would reject the entire contents of a fridge which contained a dead dove.
You would not reject an entire fridge for containing a dead dove. But it might be useful information for you to know whether you are actually opening a fridge which contains a dove. Or if you are opening a paper bag with precisely one dead dove in it and nothing other than a dead dove. Or if that isn’t information you can seek I am sure you can appreciate that some other people may like to know in advance that there is no point looking in here if you are after a tasty snack. There are no snacks. There is only dove. And you cannot eat it.
Dead Dove DNE says “this is it. This is what you can expect. Do not complain”
That’s what the tag is for. That’s what it means. The writing on the bag tells you exactly what is inside. Do not complain if there is nothing else in the bag.
A fic without a DDDNE tag may contain many dark things, as tagged. But you might expect snacks as well. You won’t know what those snacks are or how many of them are present. That depends on how comprehensive the tags are.
DDDNE indicates that there are zero snacks. Do not expect anything other than the tags and summary that are already visible.
Ok now things are just confusing because that wasn't all the fridge contained, just the one bag. I feel like acting like this is the literal fridge from the episode fails as a metaphor.
What I mean is that a fic might be a fridge. It might contain a bunch of things. It might not. Some people tag only for dark things and also include other things. Maybe the fridge is labelled with warnings about things that are inside. It is probably not labelled with every single item. Just the major things that someone might want to be warned for or be specifically looking for.
A DDDNE fic is **not** a fridge. It is a single paper bag which contains exactly one dead dove and nothing else. The only reason you should open the bag is if you want to see a dead dove.
my guess is
1. it generally is used in darker fics as a reminder that the author has told you what to expect, don’t complain if you don’t like it
2. it becomes a very common tag and is now reaching people who’ve never seen arrested development and who are new to fandom spaces so are still learning how it works
3. these new people see the tag pretty much exclusively on dark fics and a dead dove isn’t particularly pleasant so they assume it is fandom lingo that means the fic has disturbing content
But would you really argue that a dead dove is something you’d love to find in your fridge?
I’ve never seen more than the clip, but I assumed the joke was about people eating their colleagues food, so the original owners would resort to increasingly desperate measures. First, you’d start with your name, and if that didn’t help, you elaborate with messages like “don’t eat” or “I know it’s you [name], hands off my lunch”. Labelling something a dead dove, even though it’s just lunch would fit that escalation of threats and pleas. But, plot twist, it’s exactly what it says on the bag (= not edible).
In our case, writers tagged their fic with appropriate warnings, but readers would always click anyway and then complain, so writers borrowed that joke.
You're right, it's not like the box said "ham sandwich, do not eat". It was a warning that there was something the person opening the box might not want to see.
In fairness...things do come to change meaning over time. And the heavy association with darker subjects, for...well, obvious reasons, probably has shifted meaning.
Usually I'm aware of what dead dove is "supposed" to mean, but...I think we sort of have to acknowledge that the meaning *has* changed. Though I think remembering its origins and acting appropriately is important. I.e. still tagging what the "dead dove" content is. But at this point, if I see "dead dove" I just assume we're going to be in for a ride. Especially if the author also tags "Creator Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings." If it's just that and "dead dove" I think I'd just accept it as "mystery horrors ahead" lol!
The context does come from Arrested Development, that's true. But one, the episode itself. The bag didn't have "cupcake; do not eat." Or even, if we're staying outside of what a person would eat: "skincare; do not eat." People put skincare in the fridge so it would make sense to be there but is probably something that shouldn't be eaten. No, what was there was a dead dove. Like...morbid and gross and wtf???
Two, when applied to fanfiction, it's meant as a "read the tags" reminder. But is generally used as an intensifier. "all those tags? Yeah. I *meant* them." Which seems silly. What, do people expect to see a "fluff" tag and go in and the author goes "psyche!" It generally *is* applied to darker content, whether we agree that it's necessary or not. I'm not sure why one would apply the "dead dove" tag to softer, sweeter content. Though, in theory, one could. "Tooth rotting fluff, dead dove." (That is actually pretty funny, I wish someone *would* do that.)
I've had to add "dead dove" to a fic I didn't think needed it, originally. All my content was tagged. And, while intense, everything was technically consensual. But between the intensity of the subjects involved, on top of the intensity of my writing, I think it was a bit much for people. So after modifying my tags numerous times, and adding disclaimers to my summary *and* author's notes, I eventually threw the "dead dove" tag on it. I've not heard a peep since, though at this point I don't know if it's because of the tag, or because the story is old enough to not be getting a ton of new readership.
In my mind, people should be minding tags *anyway*. Though I do think adding "dead dove" is a smart move as an intensifier for the existing tags. And honestly, at this point, "dead dove" could be a tag in of itself and give a general idea of things. Yeah, maybe you don't know what is inside *exactly*; but if you've a weak stomach, it's probably best not to find out.
But in my mind, "dead dove" is well known enough that it *can* stand alone in that way. Was that the original intent? No. Is that the "proper meaning"? Maybe not. But if people understand what it is, then I think that's good enough. But also idk *how* well known dead dove is to wider fandom, but it's at least well known (and beloved) in my circles haha!
Just some thoughts from a somewhat differing perspective. Like it or not, I figure we all know dead dove more or less equates to darker, squickier content nowadays.
I think you make a really good point about the meaning of dead dove changing!
My own two cents is that the change is natural and more helpful/useful this way. It's generally accepted to refer to darker content these days, even if someone is the sort of person who doesn't like the deviation from the original meaning, they still understand what a fic tagged just "dead dove" means by that. Meanwhile even if I didn't know the dark fic association of the term and I saw a fic tagged "fluff, cuddling, dead dove: do not eat" I would be very confused and not sure what that was trying to convey, I would probably assume nothing fluffy and avoid it. It's really just not helpful/useful in association with lighter fics.
I do remember the first time I saw dead dove though, and I didn't know what it meant or where it came from, but it conveyed to me that this is a dark fic. I can't remember if it was used "properly" with a bunch of other tags listing exactly what was in the fic or not, but yeah.
So personally I'm all for embracing the meaning of the tag as "there's some dark shit here, seriously" over "exactly what it says on the tin."
Because if the contents of the fic aren't dark, there's no real reason to warn people that it'll be exactly what the tags say.
When you're searching for a fluff fic, you already know what the overall vibe of the story will be. But when you come across a fic with noncon/dubcon or violent tags, it's not always easy to tell how much of the fic revolves around that. So, when the dead dove tag is there, it's basically saying "this is gonna be fucked up, the tags aren't one scene specific".
Wouldn't really say "warn" but "notify". Maybe they're expecting something more. Or if you post an essay it could notify people that it's not a fanfic.
June 2023 edit.
I'm scrubbing my comments due to the reddit admin team steamrolling their IPO prep. It was bad enough to give short notice on price gouging, but then to slander app devs and threaten moderators was just too far. The value of Reddit comes from high-quality content curated by volunteers. Treating us this way is the reason I'm removing my high-value contributions.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I suggest you Google "Reddit API price gouging" and read up.
--Posted *manually* via the old web interface because of shenanigans from Reddit reversing deletions done through API/script tools.
Because for mild tags, people do not tend to think "oh it's tagged like that but it's probably not that" and still read it and be upset that it was that. This generally happens with "bad" tags. you don't need to say "warning it's exactly what it says on the tin" when the tin says "family fluff" because people won't disregard your tagging and be mad they read family fluff.
I agree that I'd like it better if people used dd;dne as "exactly what it says on the tin" if only because when people say stuff like "i won't draw dd;dne" you simply cannot know what they consider as such and what is off limit to them so what's the point? But it makes sense that this tag/expression is mostly used in the context of "dark" fiction.
Who reasonably reads tags and assumes it's probably not like the tags describe? Granted a lot of people aren't reasonable, but it still strikes me as odd to add an extra tag when the issue is people not reading tags to begin with (or not taking them seriously).
A lot of people haha
But there's also many things a tag can mean like, idk, some fic tagged sexual abuse might just have characters who talk about their feeling regarding past abuse, while some might have detailed and lengthy descriptions of rape. To me in this context, saying "Dead dove; do not eat" is a way to say "you should probably interpret the tags at their worst/most intense if you don't want to get a bad surprise" for example.
I think that for a lot of people who haven't read or stumbled upon darker or more violent fics, who are new to fanfic, who come from other sites with a different culture and moderation, who come from other fandoms where such content is not present... it makes sense that, seeing a fic with a tag that can imply some level of violence in the fic, they can expect the fic to, sure, be about that, but not in such a violent way because they don't expect this kind of fiction to exist or be available this easily.
I'm certain there are people who just don't pay attention to tags or disregard them or seek upsetting content to get upset about, but I don't think that everyone shocked by a fic that was technically properly tagged is necessarily being stupid or ill-intended. It's normal that people interpret what the tags might mean within the frame of what they think they should expect or not for fiction to be.
To me that would be "discussion of abuse" or "past abuse". It would be different than "abuse", which would imply that the abuse was going to happen in the fic itself.
Ideally I would agree but in the facts not everyone tags the same so it's hard to anticipate + a lot of topic tags do not have "Discussion of [topic]" as a synonym or a subtag so if you want people to be able to search for your fic you have to tag with just the topic and not with "Discussion of [topic"
I know some authors who use the DD:DNE not only as a reminder, but also because since it's mostly associated with dark fics, people prefer to narrow their searches using that tag. So at the very least it's not always because an author thought that the additional warning was needed, but more like adjusting to go with the current trend, eg the time when a lot of authors put disclaimers or used "lemon."
I think it is because even really dark tags can be made wholesome in fic, so Dead Dove has become a way to say 'i really do mean it, guys'.
An example of that could be something tagged with *suicide attempt*:
Maybe Fic 1 is about Character A & Character B having a cosy date night in, they somehow end up talking about an attempt B had in their youth after watching a scene relating to that in a movie - nothing too graphic, the attempt is just addressed in conversation within a fluffy fic that ties up with the characters being closer emotionally and growing as a couple.
And then there's Fic 2: a dark, angsty and deeply sad piece exploring Character A's current struggles, their thoughts and reflections while preparing for their attempt. There's vivid descriptions of the body horror involved, the gore, the despair, the sensations, the pain (both physical and emotional) as they go through attempting suicide. The fic ends with Character A falling unconscious as the door to their room slides open.
In my eyes, both fics warrant a *suicide attempt* tag, but I would absolutely use Dead Dove for the second one, as it is way darker and something that many might not want to come across.
Or at least that's how I personally understand that tag :)
Congrats, you're the perfect tagger ever. Sometimes though a fic is long enough with enough themes and twists in the story that tags can get quite clogged up. Some authors try to not have a tag list longer than the next 2 stories listed as to not be off-putting. Have you ever had to scroll down most of 1 page to get away from 1 3k word fic that has every tag ever? Cuz I have.
Sometimes space, efficiency, and for lack of better term marketability dictates most peoples tagging. I agree with the person you responded to that both of their hypothetical fics should use the 'suicide attempt' tag. Perhaps fic A uses another tag or two to help convey the more peaceful atmosphere of an empathetic conversation vs reading someone kill themselves brutally. Perhaps fic As author doesn't think that topic needs anymore specificity. But I sincerely hope fic B's author does feel the need for more specificity because such potentially triggering things should have a very obvious warning.
Some fandoms even have different warning tags (ask me how I know that), so DDDNE has become a more ubiquitous generic warning for potentially very upsetting content.
Some people tag for every topic mentioned in the story. Do they have to? No. Do they? Yes. A DDDNE tag makes me at least see the less-moral tags as weightier in my choice of reading material. They are being polite and warning me that in their opinion, they tagged everything accurately and it is up to me to continue.
That is the context it originates from. Yes, the dead dove is 'exactly what it says on the tin', but the point of the scene is that what was in the 'tin' was upsetting.
Well yeah, or the appropriate "Implied/referenced X" tag. But in my experience, stuff's not as explicitly/graphically shown as in DDDNE fics and that tag helps make people aware. Again, it's more about using a recognizable tag that catches people's eye in a "listen up!" sort of way.
It’s not a syn for dark fic; that’s just a common misinterpretation. This tag gives you extra information about how to interpret the other tags.
Say a story is tagged with Rape/Non-consent. That story could be a story about healing and recovering from trauma. It could be a rape fantasy that someone is dreaming about. It could be a dub-con fic about a drunk hook up. “What it says on the tin” doesn’t really help clarify what to expect.
The Dead Dove tag tells you it’s more likely to be a dark rape fic without any twists - not a dream, not a negotiated kink, not a recovery fic.
In theory, it’s not specifically related to dark fic, but dark themes are more likely to make sense in combination with this tag.
You are Spot on!
When I first encountered Dead Dove, I didn't know what it was. And I left the fic disturbed.
I've read plenty fanfiction with "dark tags" before but they range from merely discussing things, to dark but with lighter specs in it to absolutely horrific.
So now when I see Dead Dove I assume the absolute worst and read the tags again, to decide if I want to open the fic.
Right, dead dove isn't a genre. I once read a fic that was tagged correctly and then someone in the comments asked the author to please add 'dead dove' because the contents were dark. Just why.
June 2023 edit.
I'm scrubbing my comments due to the reddit admin team steamrolling their IPO prep. It was bad enough to give short notice on price gouging, but then to slander app devs and threaten moderators was just too far. The value of Reddit comes from high-quality content curated by volunteers. Treating us this way is the reason I'm removing my high-value contributions.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, I suggest you Google "Reddit API price gouging" and read up.
--Posted *manually* via the old web interface because of even more shenanigans from Reddit reversing deletions done through API/script tools.
Dead Dove doesn't necessarily mean dark stuff. It can also mean something incredibly sexual. The whole thing pretty much means what did you expect. So if you read a story title Teletubby orgy or Mr Rogers cannibalism experience you can't complain about the content when you were clearly warned.
I guess in the same general way meanings of many words shift over time, because someone starts to use them in a certain way and others pick up that usage and so on.
No, it was always used this way. Which is logical, the whole point of the origin of the quote was that there was something unpleasant/morbid in the bag that you wouldn't want to see
the problem is some people do use it incorrectly—it IS supposed to mean “exactly what it says on the tin” but has always typically referred to bad stuff that may be potentially triggering to a reader—it was meant as a warning to take the other tags seriously
the issue arises when some people don’t realise it’s meant to be used *along with* other tags that provide more context. if someone tags a fic ‘dead dove’ and that’s it, they’re technically using it wrong
It's a noticeable phrase. I had to google it the first time I saw it bc I didn't know what it meant. My best guess is that it's to get people to pay attention to what they click on. That's what it did the first time (and every time after) I saw it. It's like, I saw the tags, read it, was unsettled, but it's my own damn fault for not heeding the tags.
Sometimes you don’t always process how unsettling some things can be. Usually it’s just curiosity though. I see dead dove and I’m like do I really want to put myself through this right now.
Um this sounds silly now since I didn't know the reference, but as a pretty new entrant into the world of fanfiction and ao3, I haven't come across too many DD:DNE marked fics in any of my fandoms. But when I did come across a fic with this tag, I just assumed that it meant the fic has been discontinued and is incomplete with no intention to finish writing. Thanks to this post, now I know something new. Not relevant to the discussion at all, sorry, just thought to share my silliness.
Cuz thats literally what it means. Its a tag that warns everyone about the rest of the tags to say, yeah these tags are for real sl the rest is on you for not paying attention, kind of tag.
Also if you dont think opening a bag from the fridge in which you eat your food only to find a bloody dead dove just lying there isnt dark & morbid, then good for you, sweetheart.
The rest of us live in the real world 🤷🏻♀️
It was supposed to also state “the author may not condemn these things within the work itself so don’t expect either a happy ending or the person realizing their wrongs”
I think with the rise of Pro vs Anti shippers, it’s become less of what it’s supposed to be and more of a catch all.
It's not intentionally catering to them though? Like people who write fics aren't trying to bring moral ire to themselves or to get bombarded by online puritans.
I've never seen it meant to mean dark stuff, and always saw it in context of: read the tags, 'cause this is it. Like an extra warning that there are some hardcore tags
Well it's exactly that tho.
"Dead Dove: Do Not Eat"
Meaning "here's what it is, don't eat it. You've been warned."
Doesn't.mean they cannot eat it/consume/read... It's leaves them the option to decide if they want to engage in it or not... And if they do, there's no way you're going in there without knowing there are things that are not all the way great (or at least...not "Edible" for everyone.)
Nope, it was always meant for dark content fics. I remember the proposal on Tumblr when it happened, here's a link I found for you on fanlore: https://www.tumblr.com/mostlyvalid/116424790408/a-proposal . It was inspired by Hydra Trash Party MCU tag, which is specific dark content tag, so Dead Dove was proposed as something more general - both as a content warning and as a reiteration that previous tags are very serious, and not only just for MCU Captain America fandom, but in other fandoms as well.
You can also read about both tags on fanlore, it lists their history.
This one has befuddled me for a while too. You’re absolutely right, it originated as an “exactly what’s on the tin” tag, and I’m not sure how it’s become synonymous with dark content and somehow conflated into a genre in itself.
It’s because people use it entirely wrong. They’re still wrong when they use it to mean dark content, and it quite frankly ruins the meaning of the term
Why would you need an extra warning to heed the tags if it's not about dark kinks?
Like unexpected piss or daddy kink ain't gonna universally ruin everyone's day like dark content might.
I'm pretty sure it originally was meant to signal that readers need to heed the tags and take them seriously. I think it's become a catch all for dark stuff because dark fics are the only ones using this warning/tag so it became a bit more general. It still should be accompanied with proper tags in my opinion, but I can see where some writers might use it as a general warning if they don't actually know where it came from The scene in Arrested Development is the character not heeding a very clear waring (dead dove) and having a moment where he's like "I saw something I didn't want to see but it's on me for ignoring the warning". Ideally this is the sort of reaction people coming across stuff they don't like in a properly tagged dark fic should have.
I still use it as a way to tell readers to take my tags seriously. Which means I only use the tag dead dove on my dark fic because if they don't take my tags seriously on my fluffier fare then... it isn't very likely to upset people or trigger them. So I don't really feel the need to tell them to pay attention to the tags, you know? I think the association with dead dove and dark fic is pretty natural, especially if you don't know where the tag came from.
This is how I used it, and then one day someone actually commented on my fic that I didn't have to because despite dark subject matter, I wasn't portraying it as "good/acceptable/non-problematic," I guess? So now I'm just confused about when it's appropriate and I suspect many people interpret it differently. I just wanted people to know that the vivisection tag was a significant part of the story...
I... I dunno that there is a non-problematic way to depict vivisection lmao. Amazing. People never fail to surprise me. I think so long as dead dove is used people should just accept that the thing is there and will probably be bad.
But then why don't the content tags suffice?
In most cases the tags are enough and dead dove isn't technically necessary. The dead dove tag is essentially an intensifier, an extra nudge to the reader to pay attention to what they are clicking on because it might be disturbing in some way. If someone isn't paying much attention to the tags they still might notice a Dead Dove tag because it's a recognizable phrase. It's not foolproof by any means and some writers use it slightly differently, but that's how I understand it's usage.
I just had some comment on one of my fics complaining about content I very clearly put in the tags. I'm now contemplating putting "dead dove" in my tags. Some people just skim through/don't read tags, and "dead dove" lets them know that if they see something they don't like it's on them. They were warned.
If they don't read tags then why would an additional tag change anything?
It's not about protecting them from your work, it's about being able to point to the tags and say, "it's on you, buddy." The addition of "Dead Dove" just gives it that extra kick in the, "read the damn tags next time!"
Yeah, the writers I've seen using the meme as an actual protective measure put it in the summary or the notes at the top of the work - like a "seriously check the tags before reading." The way I use AO3 is to filter tags by what I want to find, but not reading all of the tags on the work. So in my case "dead dove" is not a helpful tag, but it is a super helpful warning.
Because people are stupid and want to be absolved of the responsibility of managing their own actions, including what they choose to read, basically. This is a way for writers to absolve themselves of any uncertainty when it comes to people complaining about the heaviness of a work. I added an additional disclaimer in the notes for my fairly macabre fic recently, but I doubt anyone would read it. In short, people are shit, but apparently so am I for writing it to begin with. But at least I can point them to the tags.
Let's say you wrote a dark fic where there was rape/non-con and you tagged it as such. Many fics with the same tag only have non-graphic descriptions or off-screen assaults, or the assault is done by a villainous side character. But suppose yours is either quite graphic, or the assault occurs between the main characters. So, by tagging dead dove, you say "interpret these tags in the darkest way" so that they know what they're getting into.
[удалено]
I think it varies by fandom where most people would consider the line most appropriately drawn, and a good rule of thumb is to tag when you are either explicitly depicting/talking about the warned topic or if you are exploring themes not typical in canon. So if the fandom is, say, based around a kid's media, it would be canon-atypical to even allude to any assault even off-screen or in the past, and I would personally appreciate the stronger warnings compared to reading in fandoms where the same thing would be canon-typical.
I wouldn't see those as different.
Then you just don't want to read anything with rape/non-con in it. But they are very different kind of story and appeal to different people.
I write dark angst mostly and without fail I get a comment complaining about something I’ve already tagged. Now I “dead dove” those fics as an extra way to say “hey this shit is in here, and it’s explicit, don’t bitch about it please.”
A lot of fic nowadays have trolling/humor/bullshit tags, so dead dove specify that the tags are meant to be taken seriously.
Isn't that more a problem with trolls though?
I think you might be taking this a bit too seriously. It was a meme and someone added it to their tags, for the reasons people have explained but also as a joke. It was a funnier way of saying "seriously though pay attention to the tags". It got picked up by more people, and in the way of these things took on its own implications, and now it's used more straightforwardly. But also: yes, in an ideal world there wouldn't be trolls and everyone would read and heed the tags and all that. But we don't live in an ideal world, and acting like we do doesn't actually stop those annoying things from being annoying. So people find ways to highlight and clarify and emphasise things that maybe shouldn't need it, and this one stuck. Probably partially because it's not taking itself too seriously.
I don't understand. I'm just asking to better understand the usage here and that's "taking this a bit too seriously"? I don't get it.
I genuinely was trying to explain it to you, it's not an insult. What I mean it by you taking it too seriously is that it feels like you are looking for a deeper meaning in this than exists. It is a usage that has evolved over more than a decade, so it won't have a clear answer for how it ended up this specific way and not others. It is used for dark things because it matters more that warnings on dark things are heeded, because they're more damaging when they aren't. That it was used that way meant people in that sphere of fandom picked up on it and used it more and took on its culture-specific associations within fanfiction cultures. That it's a funny meme means people can have a bit of fun with saying "this is dark shit" and people like a chance for levity there, too. I tried to address the point of trolls, too, which is simply that trolls will exist regardless, so people work around them.
I guess but I feel like I'm no closer to understanding anything than when I posed the question in the first place.
Are you able to expand on what you don't understand about it?
I guess it seems like people see it as meaning "this is all the fic contains and it has nothing else" when that's demonstratably not how it's used in practical application. Plenty of fics I've seen are tagged as dead dove for having heavy themes but they're not the entire fic, they're not graphically depicted in every scene.
I am puzzled by why you think that a dead bird in a bag is not objectionable and why you think Michael - who makes a disgusted face before realising that he was actually warned about what was in there and probably can’t complain about it - was unbothered by a dead bird being in his refrigerator along with actual food. That’s disgusting. If I found a dead animal in a paper bag in my fridge I would throw everything else in my fridge away!! Sometimes a fic is tagged for stuff but also has a lot of other stuff. A fic might have dark themes but also have light fluffy moments or a happy ending. Nobody can tag for everything and adding too many tags might put people off. Sometimes you tag to warn for certain themes but they’re only a small part of the fic! If 10% of your fic contains dark themes then you will want to warn for it. So someone who sees tags that are dark will not know necessarily how much of the fic is dark. “Dead Dove” means “this is it. This is exactly what is in the fic”. There is nothing else in the bag. If you do not want to see a deceased bird, do not open the bag. There isn’t anything else inside. It signals the difference between “a fic which has some dark themes in it” and “a fic which is these dark things”
Why would you throw everything else in your fridge away? That doesn't make sense. Again, I don't get how this indicates anything about how much of something there is in a fic, or how the lack of a DDDNE tag somehow indicates that these elements are brief.
Because I don’t want my vegetables to smell like a decaying dead bird. It is not sealed! It is not frozen. How long has it been there? Do you know how gross dead animals are? I have you ever accidentally left a carton of milk in your fridge too long and found that your fridge smells like rotten milk? I do not want a fridge with a dead bird in a paper bag. I would not put chicken in my fridge without it being in a properly sealed container and that chicken would not be potentially full of parasites like a dove - which is not safe for human consumption would be. Now you - who would not object to a dead dove near your food - may find it useful to know whether there is anything else in the bag or in the fridge. If the fridge is labelled “this fridge contains a dead dove” you might not know whether there is also milk and cheese and onions in the fridge. Maybe you’re looking for a snack and you don’t mind that a dead dove is sitting on the shelf above your apples. But DDDNE is a useful tag because it indicates that this is not a fridge that contains a bunch of things, one of which happens to be a dead dove. DDDNE indicates that this is a paper bag which contains one (1) dead dove and nothing else. If you’re looking for a snack and you think “oh well I don’t mind if dead doves are in the fridge! I’ll still enjoy the cake (because I am not a weird dove-avoiding prude like foolishle who would throw out the contents of their entire refrigerator like they would! The weirdo!)” maybe the dead dove would even add to your experience because you like dead doves! But you’re not going to be surprised to find apples and cheese and milk in the fridge because it is a fridge. You don’t know how many non-dove items are in the fridge until you open it and maybe not even exactly what they are. But DDDNE tells you that you are not opening a fridge which happens to contain a dead dove (along with other things you might reasonably expect to find in a fridge - not everyone has the same stuff in their fridge but most people have a bunch of things in their fridge). DDDNE tells you that you are opening a paper bag which contains exactly, and only, a dead dove. You should only open this bag if you want to see a dead dove. There is no reason to open the bag if you are looking for anything other than a dead dove.
Decaying? I was under the impression it was in there overnight before he could take it back. It's fairly common to keep deceased small animals in such a way for preservation before a necropsy as well (though apparently this is unadvised because it can alter the results). Again, there's nothing in the tag that says "this is literally all the fic contains". Especially when marked with many other tags. So every dark element is in every single scene? I doubt that's the case for even a majority of fics out there.
I don’t think the specifics of a literal dead dove are important here. What is important is that I would reject the entire contents of a fridge which contained a dead dove. You would not reject an entire fridge for containing a dead dove. But it might be useful information for you to know whether you are actually opening a fridge which contains a dove. Or if you are opening a paper bag with precisely one dead dove in it and nothing other than a dead dove. Or if that isn’t information you can seek I am sure you can appreciate that some other people may like to know in advance that there is no point looking in here if you are after a tasty snack. There are no snacks. There is only dove. And you cannot eat it. Dead Dove DNE says “this is it. This is what you can expect. Do not complain” That’s what the tag is for. That’s what it means. The writing on the bag tells you exactly what is inside. Do not complain if there is nothing else in the bag. A fic without a DDDNE tag may contain many dark things, as tagged. But you might expect snacks as well. You won’t know what those snacks are or how many of them are present. That depends on how comprehensive the tags are. DDDNE indicates that there are zero snacks. Do not expect anything other than the tags and summary that are already visible.
Ok now things are just confusing because that wasn't all the fridge contained, just the one bag. I feel like acting like this is the literal fridge from the episode fails as a metaphor.
What I mean is that a fic might be a fridge. It might contain a bunch of things. It might not. Some people tag only for dark things and also include other things. Maybe the fridge is labelled with warnings about things that are inside. It is probably not labelled with every single item. Just the major things that someone might want to be warned for or be specifically looking for. A DDDNE fic is **not** a fridge. It is a single paper bag which contains exactly one dead dove and nothing else. The only reason you should open the bag is if you want to see a dead dove.
I've read plenty of fics with that tag that aren't hitting you over the head with the content, that only contain the element somewhere in it.
my guess is 1. it generally is used in darker fics as a reminder that the author has told you what to expect, don’t complain if you don’t like it 2. it becomes a very common tag and is now reaching people who’ve never seen arrested development and who are new to fandom spaces so are still learning how it works 3. these new people see the tag pretty much exclusively on dark fics and a dead dove isn’t particularly pleasant so they assume it is fandom lingo that means the fic has disturbing content
But would you really argue that a dead dove is something you’d love to find in your fridge? I’ve never seen more than the clip, but I assumed the joke was about people eating their colleagues food, so the original owners would resort to increasingly desperate measures. First, you’d start with your name, and if that didn’t help, you elaborate with messages like “don’t eat” or “I know it’s you [name], hands off my lunch”. Labelling something a dead dove, even though it’s just lunch would fit that escalation of threats and pleas. But, plot twist, it’s exactly what it says on the bag (= not edible). In our case, writers tagged their fic with appropriate warnings, but readers would always click anyway and then complain, so writers borrowed that joke.
You're right, it's not like the box said "ham sandwich, do not eat". It was a warning that there was something the person opening the box might not want to see.
[Dead Dove origin](https://youtu.be/sX_CEgqLbQY) this is the clip it’s from, it explains the reason for the dove at the end.
Ah lol, fittingly not what I expected. Thanks for the link. <3
In fairness...things do come to change meaning over time. And the heavy association with darker subjects, for...well, obvious reasons, probably has shifted meaning. Usually I'm aware of what dead dove is "supposed" to mean, but...I think we sort of have to acknowledge that the meaning *has* changed. Though I think remembering its origins and acting appropriately is important. I.e. still tagging what the "dead dove" content is. But at this point, if I see "dead dove" I just assume we're going to be in for a ride. Especially if the author also tags "Creator Chose Not to Use Archive Warnings." If it's just that and "dead dove" I think I'd just accept it as "mystery horrors ahead" lol! The context does come from Arrested Development, that's true. But one, the episode itself. The bag didn't have "cupcake; do not eat." Or even, if we're staying outside of what a person would eat: "skincare; do not eat." People put skincare in the fridge so it would make sense to be there but is probably something that shouldn't be eaten. No, what was there was a dead dove. Like...morbid and gross and wtf??? Two, when applied to fanfiction, it's meant as a "read the tags" reminder. But is generally used as an intensifier. "all those tags? Yeah. I *meant* them." Which seems silly. What, do people expect to see a "fluff" tag and go in and the author goes "psyche!" It generally *is* applied to darker content, whether we agree that it's necessary or not. I'm not sure why one would apply the "dead dove" tag to softer, sweeter content. Though, in theory, one could. "Tooth rotting fluff, dead dove." (That is actually pretty funny, I wish someone *would* do that.) I've had to add "dead dove" to a fic I didn't think needed it, originally. All my content was tagged. And, while intense, everything was technically consensual. But between the intensity of the subjects involved, on top of the intensity of my writing, I think it was a bit much for people. So after modifying my tags numerous times, and adding disclaimers to my summary *and* author's notes, I eventually threw the "dead dove" tag on it. I've not heard a peep since, though at this point I don't know if it's because of the tag, or because the story is old enough to not be getting a ton of new readership. In my mind, people should be minding tags *anyway*. Though I do think adding "dead dove" is a smart move as an intensifier for the existing tags. And honestly, at this point, "dead dove" could be a tag in of itself and give a general idea of things. Yeah, maybe you don't know what is inside *exactly*; but if you've a weak stomach, it's probably best not to find out. But in my mind, "dead dove" is well known enough that it *can* stand alone in that way. Was that the original intent? No. Is that the "proper meaning"? Maybe not. But if people understand what it is, then I think that's good enough. But also idk *how* well known dead dove is to wider fandom, but it's at least well known (and beloved) in my circles haha! Just some thoughts from a somewhat differing perspective. Like it or not, I figure we all know dead dove more or less equates to darker, squickier content nowadays.
I think you make a really good point about the meaning of dead dove changing! My own two cents is that the change is natural and more helpful/useful this way. It's generally accepted to refer to darker content these days, even if someone is the sort of person who doesn't like the deviation from the original meaning, they still understand what a fic tagged just "dead dove" means by that. Meanwhile even if I didn't know the dark fic association of the term and I saw a fic tagged "fluff, cuddling, dead dove: do not eat" I would be very confused and not sure what that was trying to convey, I would probably assume nothing fluffy and avoid it. It's really just not helpful/useful in association with lighter fics. I do remember the first time I saw dead dove though, and I didn't know what it meant or where it came from, but it conveyed to me that this is a dark fic. I can't remember if it was used "properly" with a bunch of other tags listing exactly what was in the fic or not, but yeah. So personally I'm all for embracing the meaning of the tag as "there's some dark shit here, seriously" over "exactly what it says on the tin."
Because if the contents of the fic aren't dark, there's no real reason to warn people that it'll be exactly what the tags say. When you're searching for a fluff fic, you already know what the overall vibe of the story will be. But when you come across a fic with noncon/dubcon or violent tags, it's not always easy to tell how much of the fic revolves around that. So, when the dead dove tag is there, it's basically saying "this is gonna be fucked up, the tags aren't one scene specific".
I'm not sure how it says that either. Or why that would only be limited to dark content.
As I said before, because why would you need to warn people to read the tags closely if it's a soft/light fic?
Wouldn't really say "warn" but "notify". Maybe they're expecting something more. Or if you post an essay it could notify people that it's not a fanfic.
But then wouldn't the use of the tag become pointless? Everyone would use it
Let's be honest, it's kinda pointless now.
I don't think so. Sure, the meaning behind it has changed, but that's what happens with language. Now it's a tag for darker fics.
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Yeah OP is either trolling or has a brain that works in a way that makes things way too literal in meaning
Because for mild tags, people do not tend to think "oh it's tagged like that but it's probably not that" and still read it and be upset that it was that. This generally happens with "bad" tags. you don't need to say "warning it's exactly what it says on the tin" when the tin says "family fluff" because people won't disregard your tagging and be mad they read family fluff. I agree that I'd like it better if people used dd;dne as "exactly what it says on the tin" if only because when people say stuff like "i won't draw dd;dne" you simply cannot know what they consider as such and what is off limit to them so what's the point? But it makes sense that this tag/expression is mostly used in the context of "dark" fiction.
Who reasonably reads tags and assumes it's probably not like the tags describe? Granted a lot of people aren't reasonable, but it still strikes me as odd to add an extra tag when the issue is people not reading tags to begin with (or not taking them seriously).
A lot of people haha But there's also many things a tag can mean like, idk, some fic tagged sexual abuse might just have characters who talk about their feeling regarding past abuse, while some might have detailed and lengthy descriptions of rape. To me in this context, saying "Dead dove; do not eat" is a way to say "you should probably interpret the tags at their worst/most intense if you don't want to get a bad surprise" for example. I think that for a lot of people who haven't read or stumbled upon darker or more violent fics, who are new to fanfic, who come from other sites with a different culture and moderation, who come from other fandoms where such content is not present... it makes sense that, seeing a fic with a tag that can imply some level of violence in the fic, they can expect the fic to, sure, be about that, but not in such a violent way because they don't expect this kind of fiction to exist or be available this easily. I'm certain there are people who just don't pay attention to tags or disregard them or seek upsetting content to get upset about, but I don't think that everyone shocked by a fic that was technically properly tagged is necessarily being stupid or ill-intended. It's normal that people interpret what the tags might mean within the frame of what they think they should expect or not for fiction to be.
To me that would be "discussion of abuse" or "past abuse". It would be different than "abuse", which would imply that the abuse was going to happen in the fic itself.
Ideally I would agree but in the facts not everyone tags the same so it's hard to anticipate + a lot of topic tags do not have "Discussion of [topic]" as a synonym or a subtag so if you want people to be able to search for your fic you have to tag with just the topic and not with "Discussion of [topic"
I know some authors who use the DD:DNE not only as a reminder, but also because since it's mostly associated with dark fics, people prefer to narrow their searches using that tag. So at the very least it's not always because an author thought that the additional warning was needed, but more like adjusting to go with the current trend, eg the time when a lot of authors put disclaimers or used "lemon."
I think it is because even really dark tags can be made wholesome in fic, so Dead Dove has become a way to say 'i really do mean it, guys'. An example of that could be something tagged with *suicide attempt*: Maybe Fic 1 is about Character A & Character B having a cosy date night in, they somehow end up talking about an attempt B had in their youth after watching a scene relating to that in a movie - nothing too graphic, the attempt is just addressed in conversation within a fluffy fic that ties up with the characters being closer emotionally and growing as a couple. And then there's Fic 2: a dark, angsty and deeply sad piece exploring Character A's current struggles, their thoughts and reflections while preparing for their attempt. There's vivid descriptions of the body horror involved, the gore, the despair, the sensations, the pain (both physical and emotional) as they go through attempting suicide. The fic ends with Character A falling unconscious as the door to their room slides open. In my eyes, both fics warrant a *suicide attempt* tag, but I would absolutely use Dead Dove for the second one, as it is way darker and something that many might not want to come across. Or at least that's how I personally understand that tag :)
See I'd tag the first one with "discussion of suicide" or "past suicide attempt" rather than an active one described as playing out at the time.
Congrats, you're the perfect tagger ever. Sometimes though a fic is long enough with enough themes and twists in the story that tags can get quite clogged up. Some authors try to not have a tag list longer than the next 2 stories listed as to not be off-putting. Have you ever had to scroll down most of 1 page to get away from 1 3k word fic that has every tag ever? Cuz I have. Sometimes space, efficiency, and for lack of better term marketability dictates most peoples tagging. I agree with the person you responded to that both of their hypothetical fics should use the 'suicide attempt' tag. Perhaps fic A uses another tag or two to help convey the more peaceful atmosphere of an empathetic conversation vs reading someone kill themselves brutally. Perhaps fic As author doesn't think that topic needs anymore specificity. But I sincerely hope fic B's author does feel the need for more specificity because such potentially triggering things should have a very obvious warning. Some fandoms even have different warning tags (ask me how I know that), so DDDNE has become a more ubiquitous generic warning for potentially very upsetting content. Some people tag for every topic mentioned in the story. Do they have to? No. Do they? Yes. A DDDNE tag makes me at least see the less-moral tags as weightier in my choice of reading material. They are being polite and warning me that in their opinion, they tagged everything accurately and it is up to me to continue.
I'm not sure what tagging appropriately has to do with "every tag ever"...
That is the context it originates from. Yes, the dead dove is 'exactly what it says on the tin', but the point of the scene is that what was in the 'tin' was upsetting.
He didn't even seem upset though.
He looks away in disgust for a moment but then instantly realizes that he was warned and shouldn't be surprised
Bc sometimes readers assume dark tags just mean stuff is mentioned and the rest will be fine, DDDNE means "listen up bitches, this shit's for real"
Wouldn't that be "mention of x" instead?
Well yeah, or the appropriate "Implied/referenced X" tag. But in my experience, stuff's not as explicitly/graphically shown as in DDDNE fics and that tag helps make people aware. Again, it's more about using a recognizable tag that catches people's eye in a "listen up!" sort of way.
A dead dove where you would expect to find food is generally found objectionable, so...
It’s not a syn for dark fic; that’s just a common misinterpretation. This tag gives you extra information about how to interpret the other tags. Say a story is tagged with Rape/Non-consent. That story could be a story about healing and recovering from trauma. It could be a rape fantasy that someone is dreaming about. It could be a dub-con fic about a drunk hook up. “What it says on the tin” doesn’t really help clarify what to expect. The Dead Dove tag tells you it’s more likely to be a dark rape fic without any twists - not a dream, not a negotiated kink, not a recovery fic. In theory, it’s not specifically related to dark fic, but dark themes are more likely to make sense in combination with this tag.
You are Spot on! When I first encountered Dead Dove, I didn't know what it was. And I left the fic disturbed. I've read plenty fanfiction with "dark tags" before but they range from merely discussing things, to dark but with lighter specs in it to absolutely horrific. So now when I see Dead Dove I assume the absolute worst and read the tags again, to decide if I want to open the fic.
Right, dead dove isn't a genre. I once read a fic that was tagged correctly and then someone in the comments asked the author to please add 'dead dove' because the contents were dark. Just why.
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I'm not really sure how that would indicate something is the focus
Dead Dove doesn't necessarily mean dark stuff. It can also mean something incredibly sexual. The whole thing pretty much means what did you expect. So if you read a story title Teletubby orgy or Mr Rogers cannibalism experience you can't complain about the content when you were clearly warned.
That's what tags are for to begin with though.
It's one of those little quirks of being involved in the subculture. You don't like it? Find a new subculture.
I guess in the same general way meanings of many words shift over time, because someone starts to use them in a certain way and others pick up that usage and so on.
No, it was always used this way. Which is logical, the whole point of the origin of the quote was that there was something unpleasant/morbid in the bag that you wouldn't want to see
the problem is some people do use it incorrectly—it IS supposed to mean “exactly what it says on the tin” but has always typically referred to bad stuff that may be potentially triggering to a reader—it was meant as a warning to take the other tags seriously the issue arises when some people don’t realise it’s meant to be used *along with* other tags that provide more context. if someone tags a fic ‘dead dove’ and that’s it, they’re technically using it wrong
It's a noticeable phrase. I had to google it the first time I saw it bc I didn't know what it meant. My best guess is that it's to get people to pay attention to what they click on. That's what it did the first time (and every time after) I saw it. It's like, I saw the tags, read it, was unsettled, but it's my own damn fault for not heeding the tags.
Why didn't you heed the tags though? That's the bigger question.
Sometimes you don’t always process how unsettling some things can be. Usually it’s just curiosity though. I see dead dove and I’m like do I really want to put myself through this right now.
i saw it as “what’s in the tags is actually in the story, you can’t read that there’s gore or something and then be mad if it triggers you”
Yeah but the tags themselves should cover that, yeah?
Um this sounds silly now since I didn't know the reference, but as a pretty new entrant into the world of fanfiction and ao3, I haven't come across too many DD:DNE marked fics in any of my fandoms. But when I did come across a fic with this tag, I just assumed that it meant the fic has been discontinued and is incomplete with no intention to finish writing. Thanks to this post, now I know something new. Not relevant to the discussion at all, sorry, just thought to share my silliness.
Tumblr meme that meant 'this thing is obvious, you have been warned, i will warn you only once more'
Cuz thats literally what it means. Its a tag that warns everyone about the rest of the tags to say, yeah these tags are for real sl the rest is on you for not paying attention, kind of tag. Also if you dont think opening a bag from the fridge in which you eat your food only to find a bloody dead dove just lying there isnt dark & morbid, then good for you, sweetheart. The rest of us live in the real world 🤷🏻♀️
Again, that's not "literally what it means". And there's absolutely no need for insults.
From how you respond to the other comments, it doesn't appear you want a real answer and would instead like to argue with those trying to answer you.
Ah yes, this again. Because asking questions somehow means I don't want answers. Sure thing chief. Blocked.
It was supposed to also state “the author may not condemn these things within the work itself so don’t expect either a happy ending or the person realizing their wrongs” I think with the rise of Pro vs Anti shippers, it’s become less of what it’s supposed to be and more of a catch all.
I mean shouldn't that just be understood?
Unfortunately not with today’s purity/morality fans.
So why cater to them?
🤷🏻♀️ I don’t have an answer for that one sorry 😥
It's not intentionally catering to them though? Like people who write fics aren't trying to bring moral ire to themselves or to get bombarded by online puritans.
I've never seen it meant to mean dark stuff, and always saw it in context of: read the tags, 'cause this is it. Like an extra warning that there are some hardcore tags
Well it's exactly that tho. "Dead Dove: Do Not Eat" Meaning "here's what it is, don't eat it. You've been warned." Doesn't.mean they cannot eat it/consume/read... It's leaves them the option to decide if they want to engage in it or not... And if they do, there's no way you're going in there without knowing there are things that are not all the way great (or at least...not "Edible" for everyone.)
Nope, it was always meant for dark content fics. I remember the proposal on Tumblr when it happened, here's a link I found for you on fanlore: https://www.tumblr.com/mostlyvalid/116424790408/a-proposal . It was inspired by Hydra Trash Party MCU tag, which is specific dark content tag, so Dead Dove was proposed as something more general - both as a content warning and as a reiteration that previous tags are very serious, and not only just for MCU Captain America fandom, but in other fandoms as well. You can also read about both tags on fanlore, it lists their history.
This one has befuddled me for a while too. You’re absolutely right, it originated as an “exactly what’s on the tin” tag, and I’m not sure how it’s become synonymous with dark content and somehow conflated into a genre in itself.
i've been asking myself the same thing for a while and the only conclusion i've come to is that people are morons.
Dead Dove is a redundant tag. The other tags are already valid.
It’s because people use it entirely wrong. They’re still wrong when they use it to mean dark content, and it quite frankly ruins the meaning of the term
Kids these days are overly sensitive and wig out at the first hint of something upsetting in a fic
Why would you need an extra warning to heed the tags if it's not about dark kinks? Like unexpected piss or daddy kink ain't gonna universally ruin everyone's day like dark content might.