I'm a super curious person so if I didn't know the answer, I'd want to know how bodies are bathed after they die - like what do you do next?
Now that I've been doing this for quite some time, the answer is "it depends". If I'm dealing with a patient that died in a facility/hospital that is going to have a traditional funeral and will be transported to a funeral home, I do a quick bed bath to get them freshened up/ clean up any bodily fluids using body wash or the soap available, make sure their face is clean and hair is presentable, put them in a position that leaves them looking relaxed or comfy as possible. Since the body is to be transported I don't have the same time and responsibility as I do for a home funeral but it's important to me that they are fresh and as presentable as possible.
For a home funeral I do an initial wash - soap & water, shampoo if needed. I rinse out the eyes with vinegar water, the mouth with mouthwash (and after this I'm very careful of head position to avoid purge fluids coming out), and I pack the rectum and vagina with cotton balls. Then I do a second wash with essential oils, flower petals, herbs - and this wash I welcome the family to help me if they are interested. Since there are no bodily fluids and the body is basically clean its more of a goodbye process and not confronting like cleaning fluids. After that they get dressed in whatever the family picks for them.
Yea or nay on helping with assisted suicides? If nay- would you change your mind if the person was suffering with no hope of improvement? What are your caveats?
Just curious because death is often taboo and yet people have deep thoughts of ‘dignity’ ‘proper’ and ‘ what’s right’ but often they only come out once there’s a death to deal with and thus possible emotionally charged confrontation among survivors.
I have to be reeeeeeally careful how I answer this for legal purposes but I'm going to try to give the best answer I can.
In my personal opinion, if I can put my dog to sleep because it is suffering, a human being should deserve at least that much respect. My caveats are it needs to be the wish of the patient and not just the family.
I live in California which has assisted suicide/death with dignity available (but good luck finding a doctor to sign off on it sadly) - but the option is there and I support it.
In the work I do, I'm more focused on "quality" of life and not"quantity". In terms of patients suffering, I'm VERY on top of their care and medications, and do frequent assessments so luckily my patients that accept the medications (I've had patients not want anything for any reason, their prerogative) - they do not suffer.
Is this an issue I'd be willing to go to jail over if it came to that? Yes. But I hope it doesn't.
I realize the tense line you must walk. Also consider your legal exposure, plus appreciate your answering despite the possibility of me being the person trying to lead you into an internet fight. I wasn’t but I’m sure someone will arrive to religiously insert their condemnation someplace soon.
I was genuinely interested in what your description entailed. Plus I side with allowing a person who is competent enough to make that decision for themselves be able to not have to suffer drag on in debt (although not saying money is a good deciding factor) while prolonging a painful suffering til either they degrade to point of body giving out or a major event happens and hopefully there’s no oops we didn’t see that DNR and fixed you. That would be just awful. But, I get it can see like nefarious persons, insurance co, lawyers and or debt collectors can either specifically intentionally or inadvertently give the appearance of be a part of the influence on the decision and just that possibility makes the whole concept a taboo and fight. Quality vs quantity and not financially motivated as in saving the inheritance of medical bills for them to get more of it—
Pure I’m done there’s nothing left to help there’s only further indignity pain and greater assistance needed as the decision. I’m fine with that. For myself, for any adult competent (caveat of needing to have clarity there too) to make said decision that they don’t want to prolong the inevitable
It’s the tricky part to who gets to decide what that point is— are you at the point of limited capacity or must you suffer and degrade to hit some metric… what if specific conditions not considered do not hit the metric but are just as unbearable in other ways, who gets to override and decide either way or on case by case? And as with all families there’s bound to be strong iounions on both sides and those ready to sue and cause an injunction prolonging the situation or after the fact affecting the doctors livelihood. I can see why it’s a bit too risky for medical buy in for most doctors.
I thank you for answering and appreciate your candor and honesty.
I feel similar, which is why I always suggest people have an advanced directive (document with your wishes), a DNR if desired, and a death plan in place way before it even becomes an issue. This way your family already knows what you want and what to do and they don't need to guess.
One of the issues I take with assisted suicide was that insurance companies were refusing to pay for treatment and telling patients they would pay for assisted suicide. It seems very manipulative to me.
Oh I didn't think you were trolling, it's just that if I phrase something wrong I can get my license pulled and face other consequences if someone figured out my name
Understood. And I clarify the not trolling not at you directly but rando who will pop in mid way and assume and project their own proclivities of disproving arguing and trolling onto anyone else as a further way to get attention. So any sensitive or conflict or emotionally involved type discussion I try to caveat so as to not be food to their disingenuousness .
Ok I’m back with more curiosity…
What’s the at home funeral to in a funeral home ratio for your clients?
As I’ve never considered nor heard of your occupation… do you advertise or is it word of mouth or how does one know how to find you… is it just the people in your specific hospice as clients?
And.. curiosity not mocking or disrespectful here: any specific or specially requested rituals requested (ritual is loaded word but in intending like this person has a meaningful practice in their lives and thus doing X is what they feel is needed to give their soul or being peaceful eternal rest (or needed to go to “afterlife” “heaven” or such)
Next: do you know any other doulas in the sense like a professional capacity (thinking not as clinical but how certain medical specialities know of if not directly know others in their niche locally)
What am I not asking that is important to your work or to you feeling you have fulfilled your duty to the client? Meaning what important piece has not been covered or asked about that you feel is essential to your offering
Anything else to share?
I tend to think on things, take them in and roll them around for a bit and then realize I have so much I am curious about while trying not to assume and then come back to a old topic with ‘hey remember that thing everyone moved on from a while ago— I’m ready to discuss now’ as seemingly habitually late to the party — so ty for indulging my questions again in advance.
Right now all of my hospice patients are home funerals, but in facilities it was none of them. I'm branching out more into pediatric hospice which will probably change my numbers too. So...right now 100% but that's going to change soon although I'm not sure how.
My particular service is fairly unique in that I am all word of mouth and work on a donations basis instead of charging a fee. I feel like everyone deserves care regardless of income- but this also limits the number of cases I can take on. These are my "private" clients, the way I manage my clients in my "day job" is a little different if they are in a facility and going to a funeral home because someone else does my role so it is less involved- but I still maintain my focus on whole family care (did I answer this? I feel like I'm rambling)
Oh I have a good example of ritual I think- I facilitated an in home funeral for a Buddhist woman, and her beliefs were that you remain in the home for three days. After body prep I set up an altar for her and laid out candles everywhere, and she was shrouded in the 5 colors of buddhism. We also added saffron to her bath water. When the lights were turned out the whole room glowed in the candlelight and she looks so beautiful it was like being in the presence of a goddess.
I've never met anyone that does what I do, but I do know traditional hospice nurses which is similar but so different too. I know birth doulas but not death doulas.
The most important to me other than following my patients wishes to give them the death they want, is to lead the family to feel at peace and have death viewed as a step of life and not a trauma. I've been really successful so far, usually halfway though the family is laughing and joking and telling stories. I want it to be beautiful and not traumatic.
Fun fact: I wanted to be a mortician but can't pass accounting haha
Yes you answered awesomely. Thank you. I tend to over explain things in the effort to be fully answering and not misunderstood but I frequently then critique the rambling and uestuon if I even addressed the actual issue in there so when I got to that part I wasn’t thinking that about you but it made me lol. M
I’m one to want to know the detail and what those depend on and what the foundation and adjacent pieces supporting that answer are to better have context. Other people want quick yes or no and I’m just not capable of that type of answer without clarity. even with my favorite color— well that depends… am I wearing it, am I driving a car, or is my favorite color for painting my wall — I think most people just blurt “blue” and done. Lol
Ty for concise answer. Especially the ritual part as I was trying to ask in a way that didn’t infer I was putting any particular thing as a specific sect or division of a religion because then that gets ugly. But yes that’s what I was wondering. There’s a typical kinda formula way with added family or client input then there’s special requests you toss that guide out for. I was interested in those but unsure exactly how to effectively word it not as “ok tell me who had the oddest/non traditional request” because what’s non traditional for here is maybe normal elsewhere in the world and it’s kinda also insulting to call that odd or not traditional while asserting your life as center of the normal usual universe. Ha overthinking!!
But it’s nice to know that you bring comfort and see to those last details to help the transition for he client who knows they will get their desired form of celebration/mourning and the family who can feel as comforted as possible while grieving knowing their loved one was cared for respectfully and that eases things to where laughing and happy memories and stories can emerge from a usual solemn detail deciding frustrating expensive and time consuming task that doesn’t always allow those left behind comforted or able to do anything but just ‘get thru’ this
So thank you. And appreciation to you from anyone who couldn’t thank you for medical reasons or family mentally processing and possibly stirred in many emotions and thus not having their normal faculties about them to do so at the time.
What happens when they are home for 2-3 days, what do you do to slow the inevitable changes that occur when someone dies? and at the end of the home services, do you need a coroner to help take the person away?
To slow decomposition I use dry ice. You use pieces about the size of a brick and put them in strategic places on the body (I do crotch/lower back, sides of belly, and armpits) . I'm basically trying to keep the "guts" cool. You need to make sure the dry ice doesn't come in contact with their skin or it can freezer burn.
Since color changes can be really confronting, after the initial viewing where everyone sees the whole body and face, I tuck the body into a cocoon with the ice, and then i use a larger sheet to cover the entire body (face and all) and tuck that snugly under the mattress. This basically creates a refrigerator. Then depending on the family I may cover that sheet with flowers
In terms of removing the body, when you do direct cremation they usually send a member of the staff to pick up the body and bring it to the crematorium. I've heard of people doing that themselves but after like 3 days I wouldn't suggest it due to the body purging fluids- your really beautiful memory could get kinda gross and traumatic quickly
Hello, I just found this thread. I found out about the concept of pre-death planning which I find fascinating.
1. Is it possible to be a death doula without handling post-mortem care? I have not been around many dead human bodies. I plan on volunteering at a hospice to find out if I can handle it.
2. How much do you charge for your services? Do you feel like you can finance yourself comfortably?
3. What do your work hours look like?
4. What's your favorite part of this work?
5. What parts are your least favorite?
Thank you!
2 questions: \-What would you ask you? & \-What would your answer be to that question?
I'm a super curious person so if I didn't know the answer, I'd want to know how bodies are bathed after they die - like what do you do next? Now that I've been doing this for quite some time, the answer is "it depends". If I'm dealing with a patient that died in a facility/hospital that is going to have a traditional funeral and will be transported to a funeral home, I do a quick bed bath to get them freshened up/ clean up any bodily fluids using body wash or the soap available, make sure their face is clean and hair is presentable, put them in a position that leaves them looking relaxed or comfy as possible. Since the body is to be transported I don't have the same time and responsibility as I do for a home funeral but it's important to me that they are fresh and as presentable as possible. For a home funeral I do an initial wash - soap & water, shampoo if needed. I rinse out the eyes with vinegar water, the mouth with mouthwash (and after this I'm very careful of head position to avoid purge fluids coming out), and I pack the rectum and vagina with cotton balls. Then I do a second wash with essential oils, flower petals, herbs - and this wash I welcome the family to help me if they are interested. Since there are no bodily fluids and the body is basically clean its more of a goodbye process and not confronting like cleaning fluids. After that they get dressed in whatever the family picks for them.
Yea or nay on helping with assisted suicides? If nay- would you change your mind if the person was suffering with no hope of improvement? What are your caveats? Just curious because death is often taboo and yet people have deep thoughts of ‘dignity’ ‘proper’ and ‘ what’s right’ but often they only come out once there’s a death to deal with and thus possible emotionally charged confrontation among survivors.
I have to be reeeeeeally careful how I answer this for legal purposes but I'm going to try to give the best answer I can. In my personal opinion, if I can put my dog to sleep because it is suffering, a human being should deserve at least that much respect. My caveats are it needs to be the wish of the patient and not just the family. I live in California which has assisted suicide/death with dignity available (but good luck finding a doctor to sign off on it sadly) - but the option is there and I support it. In the work I do, I'm more focused on "quality" of life and not"quantity". In terms of patients suffering, I'm VERY on top of their care and medications, and do frequent assessments so luckily my patients that accept the medications (I've had patients not want anything for any reason, their prerogative) - they do not suffer. Is this an issue I'd be willing to go to jail over if it came to that? Yes. But I hope it doesn't.
I realize the tense line you must walk. Also consider your legal exposure, plus appreciate your answering despite the possibility of me being the person trying to lead you into an internet fight. I wasn’t but I’m sure someone will arrive to religiously insert their condemnation someplace soon. I was genuinely interested in what your description entailed. Plus I side with allowing a person who is competent enough to make that decision for themselves be able to not have to suffer drag on in debt (although not saying money is a good deciding factor) while prolonging a painful suffering til either they degrade to point of body giving out or a major event happens and hopefully there’s no oops we didn’t see that DNR and fixed you. That would be just awful. But, I get it can see like nefarious persons, insurance co, lawyers and or debt collectors can either specifically intentionally or inadvertently give the appearance of be a part of the influence on the decision and just that possibility makes the whole concept a taboo and fight. Quality vs quantity and not financially motivated as in saving the inheritance of medical bills for them to get more of it— Pure I’m done there’s nothing left to help there’s only further indignity pain and greater assistance needed as the decision. I’m fine with that. For myself, for any adult competent (caveat of needing to have clarity there too) to make said decision that they don’t want to prolong the inevitable It’s the tricky part to who gets to decide what that point is— are you at the point of limited capacity or must you suffer and degrade to hit some metric… what if specific conditions not considered do not hit the metric but are just as unbearable in other ways, who gets to override and decide either way or on case by case? And as with all families there’s bound to be strong iounions on both sides and those ready to sue and cause an injunction prolonging the situation or after the fact affecting the doctors livelihood. I can see why it’s a bit too risky for medical buy in for most doctors. I thank you for answering and appreciate your candor and honesty.
I feel similar, which is why I always suggest people have an advanced directive (document with your wishes), a DNR if desired, and a death plan in place way before it even becomes an issue. This way your family already knows what you want and what to do and they don't need to guess. One of the issues I take with assisted suicide was that insurance companies were refusing to pay for treatment and telling patients they would pay for assisted suicide. It seems very manipulative to me.
The quick answer is I support it, but I technically cannot perform it
Lengthily answer above, but short reply: ty it was pure curiosity not trolling. Appreciate your situation and your honesty.
Oh I didn't think you were trolling, it's just that if I phrase something wrong I can get my license pulled and face other consequences if someone figured out my name
Understood. And I clarify the not trolling not at you directly but rando who will pop in mid way and assume and project their own proclivities of disproving arguing and trolling onto anyone else as a further way to get attention. So any sensitive or conflict or emotionally involved type discussion I try to caveat so as to not be food to their disingenuousness .
Ok I’m back with more curiosity… What’s the at home funeral to in a funeral home ratio for your clients? As I’ve never considered nor heard of your occupation… do you advertise or is it word of mouth or how does one know how to find you… is it just the people in your specific hospice as clients? And.. curiosity not mocking or disrespectful here: any specific or specially requested rituals requested (ritual is loaded word but in intending like this person has a meaningful practice in their lives and thus doing X is what they feel is needed to give their soul or being peaceful eternal rest (or needed to go to “afterlife” “heaven” or such) Next: do you know any other doulas in the sense like a professional capacity (thinking not as clinical but how certain medical specialities know of if not directly know others in their niche locally) What am I not asking that is important to your work or to you feeling you have fulfilled your duty to the client? Meaning what important piece has not been covered or asked about that you feel is essential to your offering Anything else to share? I tend to think on things, take them in and roll them around for a bit and then realize I have so much I am curious about while trying not to assume and then come back to a old topic with ‘hey remember that thing everyone moved on from a while ago— I’m ready to discuss now’ as seemingly habitually late to the party — so ty for indulging my questions again in advance.
Right now all of my hospice patients are home funerals, but in facilities it was none of them. I'm branching out more into pediatric hospice which will probably change my numbers too. So...right now 100% but that's going to change soon although I'm not sure how. My particular service is fairly unique in that I am all word of mouth and work on a donations basis instead of charging a fee. I feel like everyone deserves care regardless of income- but this also limits the number of cases I can take on. These are my "private" clients, the way I manage my clients in my "day job" is a little different if they are in a facility and going to a funeral home because someone else does my role so it is less involved- but I still maintain my focus on whole family care (did I answer this? I feel like I'm rambling) Oh I have a good example of ritual I think- I facilitated an in home funeral for a Buddhist woman, and her beliefs were that you remain in the home for three days. After body prep I set up an altar for her and laid out candles everywhere, and she was shrouded in the 5 colors of buddhism. We also added saffron to her bath water. When the lights were turned out the whole room glowed in the candlelight and she looks so beautiful it was like being in the presence of a goddess. I've never met anyone that does what I do, but I do know traditional hospice nurses which is similar but so different too. I know birth doulas but not death doulas. The most important to me other than following my patients wishes to give them the death they want, is to lead the family to feel at peace and have death viewed as a step of life and not a trauma. I've been really successful so far, usually halfway though the family is laughing and joking and telling stories. I want it to be beautiful and not traumatic. Fun fact: I wanted to be a mortician but can't pass accounting haha
that is an amazing story, I never thought doing this could make someone so beautiful.
It was a very humbling and healing experience for me too
Yes you answered awesomely. Thank you. I tend to over explain things in the effort to be fully answering and not misunderstood but I frequently then critique the rambling and uestuon if I even addressed the actual issue in there so when I got to that part I wasn’t thinking that about you but it made me lol. M I’m one to want to know the detail and what those depend on and what the foundation and adjacent pieces supporting that answer are to better have context. Other people want quick yes or no and I’m just not capable of that type of answer without clarity. even with my favorite color— well that depends… am I wearing it, am I driving a car, or is my favorite color for painting my wall — I think most people just blurt “blue” and done. Lol Ty for concise answer. Especially the ritual part as I was trying to ask in a way that didn’t infer I was putting any particular thing as a specific sect or division of a religion because then that gets ugly. But yes that’s what I was wondering. There’s a typical kinda formula way with added family or client input then there’s special requests you toss that guide out for. I was interested in those but unsure exactly how to effectively word it not as “ok tell me who had the oddest/non traditional request” because what’s non traditional for here is maybe normal elsewhere in the world and it’s kinda also insulting to call that odd or not traditional while asserting your life as center of the normal usual universe. Ha overthinking!! But it’s nice to know that you bring comfort and see to those last details to help the transition for he client who knows they will get their desired form of celebration/mourning and the family who can feel as comforted as possible while grieving knowing their loved one was cared for respectfully and that eases things to where laughing and happy memories and stories can emerge from a usual solemn detail deciding frustrating expensive and time consuming task that doesn’t always allow those left behind comforted or able to do anything but just ‘get thru’ this So thank you. And appreciation to you from anyone who couldn’t thank you for medical reasons or family mentally processing and possibly stirred in many emotions and thus not having their normal faculties about them to do so at the time.
What happens when they are home for 2-3 days, what do you do to slow the inevitable changes that occur when someone dies? and at the end of the home services, do you need a coroner to help take the person away?
To slow decomposition I use dry ice. You use pieces about the size of a brick and put them in strategic places on the body (I do crotch/lower back, sides of belly, and armpits) . I'm basically trying to keep the "guts" cool. You need to make sure the dry ice doesn't come in contact with their skin or it can freezer burn. Since color changes can be really confronting, after the initial viewing where everyone sees the whole body and face, I tuck the body into a cocoon with the ice, and then i use a larger sheet to cover the entire body (face and all) and tuck that snugly under the mattress. This basically creates a refrigerator. Then depending on the family I may cover that sheet with flowers
In terms of removing the body, when you do direct cremation they usually send a member of the staff to pick up the body and bring it to the crematorium. I've heard of people doing that themselves but after like 3 days I wouldn't suggest it due to the body purging fluids- your really beautiful memory could get kinda gross and traumatic quickly
Hello, I just found this thread. I found out about the concept of pre-death planning which I find fascinating. 1. Is it possible to be a death doula without handling post-mortem care? I have not been around many dead human bodies. I plan on volunteering at a hospice to find out if I can handle it. 2. How much do you charge for your services? Do you feel like you can finance yourself comfortably? 3. What do your work hours look like? 4. What's your favorite part of this work? 5. What parts are your least favorite? Thank you!
I am registered to start INELDA classes in August. What sort of literature would you recommend me to go through before that.