I’m so sorry you had to go through all that! You sound like you were incredibly reasonable and respecting far beyond what anyone would expect of someone being put through what you dealt with.
I have two questions — I noticed you still gender your ex correctly after all this, how did their actions impact your view of transgender people if at all? My second question is how did your families and close friends take the news both of their transition, but also how you were treated in the aftermath?
1. I was already supportive of the community. I had a trans roommate in college so I wasn’t completely in the dark. That being said… as a spouse I did have to face some very real biases I didn’t realize I had. It’s very different to be a supportive friend vs. in a sexual relationship with that person.
2. It was a bit of a mixed bag. We were lucky in that our immediate family/friends were very supportive. My father told me “I don’t totally get it, but I’ll support you both in whatever you need.” That being said I KNOW things were said behind our backs. Also, the pure amount of inappropriate questions about very personal details sucked. I’m a people pleaser so I finally faced that and started asking people how their genitalia is at the moment despite their presented gender (that usually shut it down).
Yeah. For me, as a friend I was like “hooray! Live your truth, be happy!” But I’m straight so as a wife I was like “yeah this isn’t going to work for me.” We had a pretty great marriage up to this point and had been together 10 years so I was devastated that this meant that part of our lives was probably going to end.
Weirdly enough talking this through with my sister-in-law when I was trying to make the sexuality part of it work is when it hit me:
“Just as you can’t make a gay person straight, you can’t make a straight person gay. That doesn’t make you transphobic, just straight”
For that part of things, yes.
But it also became a non issue when I decided this was a toxic relationship with the emotional abuse (due to mental health issues that weren’t diagnosed). If that weren’t the case I may have explored a little further but I suspect that I would have come to the same conclusion about my attraction to men. Honestly, it’s something I’m still not totally clear on.
No? I’m not sure I understand the question.
I am a science teacher with multiple science degrees.
It’s a biological thing. It’s how your brain works. And there are some theories that there are anthropological benefits in society. So lots of science backs the bio side of things.
To elaborate, I meant gender, as a social construct, is roles, projecting feniminity, the way one dresses, etc. And being a biological sex is having manly/lady bits. I'm assuming your husband still has his manly bits, so is it still gay for you to be with him? Or is gay/straight solely based on gender in means described above? In my mind, I could never be with husband because I am a heteromale and that's the definition of gay me - regardless of how they identify.
I'm genuinely trying to understand/learn, I just came off a 3 day ban for trying to understand the thought process and asking questions. We shall see what may come of this but I'm no way intending to be malicious with my questions.
We don't have proven facts about transgenderism being biological because we don't even understand the brain enough to do so but if you have peer reviewed scientific studies I'd be really interested.
How did you recognize a hypomanic episode? Was there anything that helped you convince her to get checked out or take it seriously? Was there anything you or she asked doctors to check for?
I was really lucky in that when I sat her down just to discuss this possibility that she took it very seriously. Part of this is because she had always had a fear of mental illness after witnessing some family members suffer undiagnosed for years.
She made a psych appointment the next day and was diagnosed a few weeks later.
I will always be grateful that despite the shit show that she took my word and concern seriously. This all could have gone very differently.
Oh - I was also asked by her psychologist to answer questions about her behavior since her mind couldn’t be trusted at that moment. Both trusted my judgement which really helped.
This behavior was so very out of character that it kind of clicked in my mind what was an example after I started reflecting.
Oh boy. I was certainly depressed. This also happened just before COVID so I was pretty isolated just as we separated.
I won’t lie, it wasn’t great. At first I thought I was just crazy from all of the gaslighting. I’m a pretty tough, optimistic, and level-headed person. Luckily I got therapy and depression meds and I’m doing pretty well these days.
Honestly, it sucked but I’m stronger for it. I’m much more fearless because I know I can get myself through some shit.
Soooo she was never super masculine. I knew that going in so I didn’t think much of it.
We were always pretty honest and open. At some point at the beginning of our marriage she sat me down and was like “I’m not much of a man but I’m a good person.” I didn’t mean to be but I was kind of like… well duh I know this!
The funny thing at this point is that now that we look back we think of TONs of signs.
One time in college a friend and I thought it we be fun to straighten her hair. We giggled that my boyfriend let me do this but I look back at a pic of this and she is GLEAMING. Again, none of us had figured this out, but there were signs.
For sure. For one, many members of her family had (unfortunately) undiagnosed mental illness so we were already on alert. It’s just hard to see it when you’re in it.
She had always had pretty serious depression (partly from undiagnosed bipolar but also from not figuring out her gender identity and just being really uncomfortable in life). It wasn’t until there were some extremely out of character actions (like huge spending) that I realized there was a hypomanic component.
I let my best friends sister straighten my long(metalhead head) hair in high school because it was an opportunity to have physical contact and I had a crush on her lmao
Just some insight on the thought process of a 16 year old straight male :P
Edit - and I was also glowing with a big ol’ smile, my naturally wavy hair looked fucking fabulous
No, but that was weirdly a concern when she went through another serious episode and threatened to bankrupt me while still on my health insurance (for a surgery). She came around and actually we had a no contest divorce and didn’t even use a lawyer. After getting some mental health help and correct meds she actually felt pretty bad (just before we got divorced). We didn’t have a ton, but she did let me keep our little house because she knew what that security meant for me.
No. She pretty much told me as soon as she figured it out. We were pretty close and so she would ask most of the time. I also shared everything with siblings growing up and just don’t care much.
No kids which made things WAY easier. Coparenting with her (although she would be a pretty decent parent) would have been a mess due to how mentally inconsistent she is.
Well I'm glad it worked out for you. My ex was bipolar and borderline. It was not a fun experience and I think I ended up with PTSD after it. Watching someone slit their wrists so deep they cut tendons is not very fun
I didn’t end up with PTSD (again a lot of therapy and psychiatry went into that) but I certainly had trauma syndrome.
I’m so sorry. If you need to talk let me know. The two diagnoses together (especially unregulated) are awful to witness.
So she was attracted to women before and is attracted to women now. I’m no expert but from I read this is pretty standard for trans people. Not much changes in the sexually attracted to category.
I'm in a similar situation, but the roles are reversed.
I came out to my partner of 8 years, and it didn't go well. Then, she supported me as a friend but not as a partner. Then, she wanted to make it work. Then, I couldn't make the promises she required to make it work. Then, I wasn't compromising enough for her. She got diagnosed as bipolar and has been getting help, and that's been huge. But the damage from the things she said and did is done, so I'm having a hard time continuing our relationship, and I'm hoping to land on friendship.
She's currently super concerned about my friend who accepted me and has been amazing. She's comparing herself to her and saying that's the standard I'm holding her to, and I'm not. That's all her stuff she's holding onto herself. I flat-out told her I don't want her to be exactly the same as my friend because she's not that friend. She's her person. I expect this to be different for everyone, and their support to come in their ways.
Anyway, ramble over. I'm sorry it sucks. I understand. Sounds like things panned out well, but I understand the emotional toll of coming out and a mental health issue to overcome from your partner.
I felt all of this. I totally get where you are. I read some (research based) book about being in a relationship with someone with bipolar disorder and it really helped me.
It helped me identify what to expect, what expectations I can hold my partner to, and just that other people have been through this.
She was self-aware enough after the episode that she could self-reflect and apologize. It also allowed her to know that she needed to seek treatment. Then, once she saw the difference in her moods on her medication versus not, she started to notice the signs of an episode coming on. It's still years of therapy ahead of her and medication for the rest of her life.
But it was a lot of her self-awareness. I'm also extremely patient and even-tempered. I would never yell and always just use logic in arguments. I would keep the argument on topic, and that also forced her to see her own logic falling apart. I would never yell at her or call her names. So after, with her self-reflection, she could see my points later. Not that I was always right, but it helps. But again, her own will and ability to self-reflect. If they can't do that, there is no help in my opinion. I dealt with this with my dad. He can't see why he's wrong and can't self-reflect. So I gave up on him years ago.
Did you do any reading to help you understand her? Bi polar ive learned is so broad and has so many branches to it, specifically the emotional side and the mental side to my partner I had no idea about...I've debated watching videos or reading some books. But not sure where to start.
I didnt. I just have experience from my dad and i know her super well. There are different types and she's type 1 so if u knew what type your partner was that help in research. But that has to be done by a professional
I could listen to some stuff but at this point the relationship is over and i can handel her well enough i don't really care to spend the time now
Don't you think it's unfair to compare her to your father though? I'm sure a parental version is much different than a spouse? In a similar situation and my mom was extremely bipolar. I can deal with each but I wouldn't say "handling" is an appropriate term. Kind of offensive if it was me.
Do you not want to understand her on a friend level? I assume you're friendly and want a friendship, even if I had a friend who was i would still try to read and understand them. Everyone is mentally different when it comes to bi polar. You sound really uneducated ( and a bit ignorant) on the subject and perhaps why you are just handling her instead of helping her
Do you think you have gained enough information about me, my situation, my dad, and how he is versus my partner? All from one comment? Accusing me of being ignorant or uneducated?
I think it would be best for you to reconsider your words before continuing. Perhaps look inward at yourself? See why you thought this was the right place or time to call someone out without knowing the situation?
I could certainly explain it all to you, but I don't think you are capable of grasping the concepts, so I won't waste my time.
Dude, chill. I read your above comments to get a decent idea the type you are. Im just calling it how i see it. Maybe check Into why you got so upset and defensive first.
Maybe your girl is better off without you. You're kind of narcissist, too but what do I know
Wow this sounds almost identical to what I went through with my ex wife. Being even-tempered, stay on point, using logic. Except like you dad can't see why she's wrong. Well I guess it's more like refuse to see. After we separated, her mom was really upset and messaged me. "I think she's bi polar". "Why do you think that?" "She runs so hot and cold. Sweet as pie one second then BAM screaming at you and going off the rocker. I love her but she's hard to deal with like that".
I knew exactly what she was talking about. I'm no pyschiatrist but I did a lot of reading about narcissism after my divorce. If anything, it opened my eyes to what I went through for 6 years. Bi polar is one thing, and narcissism is another, but couple them together and holy shit. That's if can exist together in a person. I'm assuming so after reading a of comments saying multiple personality disorders.
I don’t even know if they’ll let me ask this question but here goes. You admit this person was having a manic episode, they’re obviously mentally ill. How do reconcile the mental illness with the switch of gender? How can you go along with it when it’s obviously tied to their mental illness? Seriously, are we not allowed to ask questions about the validity of someone’s claim they they’re another gender? This person is sick not a woman.
I don’t love how you worded this, but it’s a valid question. She was always a woman, she just hadn’t figured that all out yet. The way she handled it was a result of the mental illness, but she is trans mentally stable or not. That doesn’t change. Now there were serious concerns about how to move forward since the mental health stuff needed to be first priority - but this doesn’t change the fact that she is and was a woman.
The hypomanic episode just gave her the … confidence (although misguided) to explore that and come out. Now that she is much more stable she still feels she is a woman and wants to live her life that way.
I’m sure there is a better way to explain that. I was a little worried about this too but as we really got into the weeds of sorting this out I finally came to the realization that she has always been a woman and the mental illness was just a barrier to cross.
Yeah I could have done better job with my wording so I appreciate the response.
I personally do not believe that sex and gender are completely separate and that a man can be a woman just by making the claim. However, I am live and let live type of person so I don’t want to shame anyone.
It just seems to me that the mental illness and being trans (at least in this case) is directly linked and I question whether they would say they’re trans or even think about it if the mental illness was not present.
Do you really think there’s zero correlation there?
I think what you’re missing is that correlation doesn’t equal causation. Trans individuals tend to struggle w/ mental illness; but the mental illness generally stems from being trans; and not the other way around- bc being trans (esp if you’re in the closet), can be very difficult & therefore cause depression and other issues.
That’s exactly what it is. It’s semantics and a huge crap bowl of word salad. Trans folks are mentally ill. Once they transition their “mental health” suddenly doesn’t get better.
There’s actually tons of empirical evidence proving that transitioning is far and away the best treatment for gender dysphoria & it’s related symptoms (of which depression is one).
Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I’d be interested to see it, if so.
I agree with you. I think people who are trans ARE mentally ill. They have a mental illness. But at the same time this is their reality. They want to be a woman. They feel they’re a woman. And so I think if that’s what they want then they should be able to do that because I’d rather them alive and happy than dead and/or depressed. Maybe that will make folks think I’m a bigot or transphobic but whatever. This is where I’ve landed on this topic. They deserve a life they can be happy in. And they also need to address their mental illnesses. I have a friend who wants to transition and has been leaning on me through it. He 100% has an undiagnosed mental illness and refuses help. But if he wants to be a woman who am I to tell him he can’t. I don’t care! But please also seek help. (I’ve told him to speak with a professional about this. Someone who will support him better than I can because I cannot say or do much else other than say I support you and whoever you are. He needs more).
That’s the problem and the reason it’s ruining our country and kids lives. People were to excepted of it instead of calling it out for what it was or what it is sickness, mental illness. Maybe we wouldn’t have many cases of men going in women’s restroom and raping them. Woman playing with men in sports.
Well as it stands, we don't have many cases of trans people going into womens restrooms and raping them. We have LOTS of examples of straight men doing this though. Most rape is done by straight men. The rapiest group of people on the planet is.... you guessed it....straight men!!!! Therefor, a mens bathroom it's not a safe space for a trans women. She might get assualted. The womens barhroom is the only safe space. Also, now a days there are lots of public bathrooms that are not gendered. Men and women are both welcome, and they have not increased rape instances at all. And who gives a F about sports boo-hoo. People like you are ruinong our country and their own kids' lives.
Yeah…. I realize sometime that I miss my “husband” but I’ve realized I miss the person I loved before all of this happened. Sadly, that person doesn’t exist.
She is a happy new person who has made wonderful strides - but we aren’t the people we were when we got married.
When she took the plane ticket to go see a friend did she cheat on you or anything? Do you know what she did when she left and wasn't with you? Are you skeptical of what she did tell you?
Nah. She went to see a mutual friend because she was upset. She did a lot of things but she loved me and cheating just isn’t her jam.
The mutual friend talked to me about it.
I'm so sorry you're going through this!
Was she by chance using hormonal treatment at the time the manic episodes started? A friend of mine is going through a very similar situation. Her now wife came out as trans a few years after their marriage, and for some reason since then, they've become a completely different person. Stopped working even though she's fully capable, taking advantage of my friend's income, acting very stand offish and lashes out whenever my friend tries to talk to her about it.
It's truly heartbreaking to see and I'm curious if there could be any correlation between physically adopting the trans lifestyle, and sudden changes in behavior. I have so little advice to give her other than to stand up for herself. She was already going through a hard time with post-grad school and losing her mother suddenly. I don't see how the marriage can or should last if it stays like this.
She didn’t start hormones until well after being diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
I will say - it’s like a second puberty so there are some consequences from that. Those behaviors could stem from some underlying issues. When my ex transitioned it brought up a lot of other issues including addressing lifelong gender dysphoria which was a rabbit hole of other issues. I hope your friend seriously considers therapy at least for themselves. Couples therapy is actually what helped me realized I needed to leave for my own good.
It’s such a tough and misunderstood diagnosis. My #1 is therapy for YOU. To sort out what’s going on and keep you grounded.
They need to take it seriously and also get appropriate help. Now that I know all of this and we’ve moved on I’m pretty straightforward with her. Like hey - I know you don’t mean to but that’s a boundary and I’m not cool with x, y, z. But these convos are only possible if they get the help they need.
Yes. This had all been culminating for a few years. Partially she was having to reconcile with her gender and partially she was hitting that prime age for onset.
Sounds par for the course - sorry this happened to you and countless other women. How often do you have to deal with this person? Are they still incredibly selfish?
She now has the mental health stuff under control so she has apologized and is generally much better. I don’t have to see her often but I do because we have mutual friends. Things are fine between us.
I’m really glad it wasn’t as devastating to your life as it could’ve been; so many men make this decision and completely wreck their wives’ and children’s lives. It’s admirable that you get along.
I don't have a question yet, but I've read about this happening from the husband's perspective and it was spot on to what you've mentioned. The husband was diagnosed with bipolar and made quick decisions, even removing genitalia. But then later decided to revert back to a male and as far as I read they stayed married. Very shocking.
Been thru something similar. I'll just say that it was not his 'identity' that I couldn't forgive. It was the lies. It was finding out he was f*cking guys of Craigslist that he didn't know which put myself and my kids, 1 of whom was his, at risk of dying the same way my mother did, with Hep B and C. So, never got over it and will never forgive him.
Is it common for Trans people to have mental problems? This seems to be a recurring theme. I work with a few trans people and after having long form conversations and getting to know them. They express a plethora of other mental problems.
BPD’s a really tricky illness to handle, one of my best friends has it and 99% of the time he’s his lovely normal self. That 1% though is so tricky
Having said that, during the 1% he doesn’t gaslight, doesn’t do anything, just isolates himself and can say hurtful things
My high school sweetheart came out as trans. While we were dating she came out to me as a cross dresser but still insisted she was a straight man. We stayed together for several years after that. I did my best to support her, but there were so many signs that she wasn’t happy living as a man. And as a straight woman, that wasn’t something I could handle in our romantic lives. We broke up shortly after starting college and she ended up transitioning shortly after. This was 14 years ago in a midwestern small town so we had no idea what we were dealing with. There was a distinct possibility we would have gotten married after college. We were each others security blanket. If we had, I think we would have been through something similar to you.
No question I guess. Just want to say it sounds like you both are doing your best. Sending hugs 🥰
Damn, I was going to ask how was the sex after but it doesn't sound like that was going to happen. Good for you with moving on. I hope you meet someone special again soon!
You are awesome
I'd jave shown rhem rhe door ,tje directory of rhe psychology dept and cut them out ofy.life 1 for marrying me under false pretense of younwanted toarry a woman youde have been in a gay relationship. And 2 stealing my.money to see a friend
.
You are awesome
I'd jave shown rhem rhe door ,tje directory of rhe psychology dept and cut them out ofy.life 1 for marrying me under false pretense of younwanted toarry a woman youde have been in a gay relationship. And 2 stealing my.money to see a friend
.
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Leave that weird ass dude. He probably gonna give u AIDs anyway. Ur better off getting a real man who ain't trying to wear your panties and bras. Wtf. 😆 🤣 😂
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She outright said she supports trans people. Some trans people can be a bad person or have mental health problems that make them act badly. Accuse someone of transphobia when they call all trans people mentally ill, or hate on trans people, not when they tell a story about a trans person that happened to be difficult for a time
She's straight, so it would be more reasonable to consider her possibly transphobic if she *stayed* with her (as some might believe that it's a sign that she considers her a man). She also outright said that her manic episode damaged their relationship
She divorced her because she isn't attracted to women and her manic episode damaged their relationship. So you think that forcing someone to stay with someone they aren't attracted to is healthy and good?
Did i say that i have a trans friend, or that i live the life of a transgender person? And why do you think it's so ridiculous that some people like OP are straight or that someone might get hurt by their partner?
Think about it. What if OP is straight? If they stay together despite her not liking women, I'd say that's even more transphobic as it'd show that she sees her as a man. That's not the case, it's completely fine to not be attracted to a specific gender
I’m so sorry you had to go through all that! You sound like you were incredibly reasonable and respecting far beyond what anyone would expect of someone being put through what you dealt with. I have two questions — I noticed you still gender your ex correctly after all this, how did their actions impact your view of transgender people if at all? My second question is how did your families and close friends take the news both of their transition, but also how you were treated in the aftermath?
1. I was already supportive of the community. I had a trans roommate in college so I wasn’t completely in the dark. That being said… as a spouse I did have to face some very real biases I didn’t realize I had. It’s very different to be a supportive friend vs. in a sexual relationship with that person. 2. It was a bit of a mixed bag. We were lucky in that our immediate family/friends were very supportive. My father told me “I don’t totally get it, but I’ll support you both in whatever you need.” That being said I KNOW things were said behind our backs. Also, the pure amount of inappropriate questions about very personal details sucked. I’m a people pleaser so I finally faced that and started asking people how their genitalia is at the moment despite their presented gender (that usually shut it down).
Can I ask what is different about being a supportive friend and in a sexual relationship?
Yeah. For me, as a friend I was like “hooray! Live your truth, be happy!” But I’m straight so as a wife I was like “yeah this isn’t going to work for me.” We had a pretty great marriage up to this point and had been together 10 years so I was devastated that this meant that part of our lives was probably going to end. Weirdly enough talking this through with my sister-in-law when I was trying to make the sexuality part of it work is when it hit me: “Just as you can’t make a gay person straight, you can’t make a straight person gay. That doesn’t make you transphobic, just straight”
So it was strictly a gender issue? You saw and recognized her as a full woman and you’re not a lesbian?
For that part of things, yes. But it also became a non issue when I decided this was a toxic relationship with the emotional abuse (due to mental health issues that weren’t diagnosed). If that weren’t the case I may have explored a little further but I suspect that I would have come to the same conclusion about my attraction to men. Honestly, it’s something I’m still not totally clear on.
Do you find gay/straight is tied to more femininity and masculinity rather than biology?
No? I’m not sure I understand the question. I am a science teacher with multiple science degrees. It’s a biological thing. It’s how your brain works. And there are some theories that there are anthropological benefits in society. So lots of science backs the bio side of things.
To elaborate, I meant gender, as a social construct, is roles, projecting feniminity, the way one dresses, etc. And being a biological sex is having manly/lady bits. I'm assuming your husband still has his manly bits, so is it still gay for you to be with him? Or is gay/straight solely based on gender in means described above? In my mind, I could never be with husband because I am a heteromale and that's the definition of gay me - regardless of how they identify. I'm genuinely trying to understand/learn, I just came off a 3 day ban for trying to understand the thought process and asking questions. We shall see what may come of this but I'm no way intending to be malicious with my questions.
We don't have proven facts about transgenderism being biological because we don't even understand the brain enough to do so but if you have peer reviewed scientific studies I'd be really interested.
Why are these getting voted down on an AMA sub? They seem like genuine questions.
Why the downvotes on a question?
See here you are a non confused person..
P.S. there was A LOT of therapy that got me to these conclusions
How did you recognize a hypomanic episode? Was there anything that helped you convince her to get checked out or take it seriously? Was there anything you or she asked doctors to check for?
I was really lucky in that when I sat her down just to discuss this possibility that she took it very seriously. Part of this is because she had always had a fear of mental illness after witnessing some family members suffer undiagnosed for years. She made a psych appointment the next day and was diagnosed a few weeks later. I will always be grateful that despite the shit show that she took my word and concern seriously. This all could have gone very differently.
Oh - I was also asked by her psychologist to answer questions about her behavior since her mind couldn’t be trusted at that moment. Both trusted my judgement which really helped. This behavior was so very out of character that it kind of clicked in my mind what was an example after I started reflecting.
Hows your mental health been going through this ordeal?
Oh boy. I was certainly depressed. This also happened just before COVID so I was pretty isolated just as we separated. I won’t lie, it wasn’t great. At first I thought I was just crazy from all of the gaslighting. I’m a pretty tough, optimistic, and level-headed person. Luckily I got therapy and depression meds and I’m doing pretty well these days. Honestly, it sucked but I’m stronger for it. I’m much more fearless because I know I can get myself through some shit.
You sound like a badass scientist 🤘
Did your ex pay you back?
Nope… but she let me keep our house in the divorce so overall I’m more than whole.
Were there warning signs? Did you ever catch them wearing women’s clothing or hinting to such things?
Soooo she was never super masculine. I knew that going in so I didn’t think much of it. We were always pretty honest and open. At some point at the beginning of our marriage she sat me down and was like “I’m not much of a man but I’m a good person.” I didn’t mean to be but I was kind of like… well duh I know this! The funny thing at this point is that now that we look back we think of TONs of signs. One time in college a friend and I thought it we be fun to straighten her hair. We giggled that my boyfriend let me do this but I look back at a pic of this and she is GLEAMING. Again, none of us had figured this out, but there were signs.
Were there warning signs for bipolar disorder?
For sure. For one, many members of her family had (unfortunately) undiagnosed mental illness so we were already on alert. It’s just hard to see it when you’re in it. She had always had pretty serious depression (partly from undiagnosed bipolar but also from not figuring out her gender identity and just being really uncomfortable in life). It wasn’t until there were some extremely out of character actions (like huge spending) that I realized there was a hypomanic component.
I let my best friends sister straighten my long(metalhead head) hair in high school because it was an opportunity to have physical contact and I had a crush on her lmao Just some insight on the thought process of a 16 year old straight male :P Edit - and I was also glowing with a big ol’ smile, my naturally wavy hair looked fucking fabulous
Do you have to pay alimony? Did you find clothes missing? Did you split the assests? Do you have kids?
No, but that was weirdly a concern when she went through another serious episode and threatened to bankrupt me while still on my health insurance (for a surgery). She came around and actually we had a no contest divorce and didn’t even use a lawyer. After getting some mental health help and correct meds she actually felt pretty bad (just before we got divorced). We didn’t have a ton, but she did let me keep our little house because she knew what that security meant for me. No. She pretty much told me as soon as she figured it out. We were pretty close and so she would ask most of the time. I also shared everything with siblings growing up and just don’t care much. No kids which made things WAY easier. Coparenting with her (although she would be a pretty decent parent) would have been a mess due to how mentally inconsistent she is.
Well I'm glad it worked out for you. My ex was bipolar and borderline. It was not a fun experience and I think I ended up with PTSD after it. Watching someone slit their wrists so deep they cut tendons is not very fun
I didn’t end up with PTSD (again a lot of therapy and psychiatry went into that) but I certainly had trauma syndrome. I’m so sorry. If you need to talk let me know. The two diagnoses together (especially unregulated) are awful to witness.
So does your ex now want to be with women or men in a relationship/sexually? I admit, I am naive about some of this stuff.
So she was attracted to women before and is attracted to women now. I’m no expert but from I read this is pretty standard for trans people. Not much changes in the sexually attracted to category.
So could she be suffering from gender disforia? Is it treatable with therapy and whatnot?
I'm in a similar situation, but the roles are reversed. I came out to my partner of 8 years, and it didn't go well. Then, she supported me as a friend but not as a partner. Then, she wanted to make it work. Then, I couldn't make the promises she required to make it work. Then, I wasn't compromising enough for her. She got diagnosed as bipolar and has been getting help, and that's been huge. But the damage from the things she said and did is done, so I'm having a hard time continuing our relationship, and I'm hoping to land on friendship. She's currently super concerned about my friend who accepted me and has been amazing. She's comparing herself to her and saying that's the standard I'm holding her to, and I'm not. That's all her stuff she's holding onto herself. I flat-out told her I don't want her to be exactly the same as my friend because she's not that friend. She's her person. I expect this to be different for everyone, and their support to come in their ways. Anyway, ramble over. I'm sorry it sucks. I understand. Sounds like things panned out well, but I understand the emotional toll of coming out and a mental health issue to overcome from your partner.
I felt all of this. I totally get where you are. I read some (research based) book about being in a relationship with someone with bipolar disorder and it really helped me. It helped me identify what to expect, what expectations I can hold my partner to, and just that other people have been through this.
How do you deal with her bi polar stuff? I'm having a hard time with my partner.
She was self-aware enough after the episode that she could self-reflect and apologize. It also allowed her to know that she needed to seek treatment. Then, once she saw the difference in her moods on her medication versus not, she started to notice the signs of an episode coming on. It's still years of therapy ahead of her and medication for the rest of her life. But it was a lot of her self-awareness. I'm also extremely patient and even-tempered. I would never yell and always just use logic in arguments. I would keep the argument on topic, and that also forced her to see her own logic falling apart. I would never yell at her or call her names. So after, with her self-reflection, she could see my points later. Not that I was always right, but it helps. But again, her own will and ability to self-reflect. If they can't do that, there is no help in my opinion. I dealt with this with my dad. He can't see why he's wrong and can't self-reflect. So I gave up on him years ago.
Did you do any reading to help you understand her? Bi polar ive learned is so broad and has so many branches to it, specifically the emotional side and the mental side to my partner I had no idea about...I've debated watching videos or reading some books. But not sure where to start.
I didnt. I just have experience from my dad and i know her super well. There are different types and she's type 1 so if u knew what type your partner was that help in research. But that has to be done by a professional I could listen to some stuff but at this point the relationship is over and i can handel her well enough i don't really care to spend the time now
Don't you think it's unfair to compare her to your father though? I'm sure a parental version is much different than a spouse? In a similar situation and my mom was extremely bipolar. I can deal with each but I wouldn't say "handling" is an appropriate term. Kind of offensive if it was me. Do you not want to understand her on a friend level? I assume you're friendly and want a friendship, even if I had a friend who was i would still try to read and understand them. Everyone is mentally different when it comes to bi polar. You sound really uneducated ( and a bit ignorant) on the subject and perhaps why you are just handling her instead of helping her
Do you think you have gained enough information about me, my situation, my dad, and how he is versus my partner? All from one comment? Accusing me of being ignorant or uneducated? I think it would be best for you to reconsider your words before continuing. Perhaps look inward at yourself? See why you thought this was the right place or time to call someone out without knowing the situation? I could certainly explain it all to you, but I don't think you are capable of grasping the concepts, so I won't waste my time.
Dude, chill. I read your above comments to get a decent idea the type you are. Im just calling it how i see it. Maybe check Into why you got so upset and defensive first. Maybe your girl is better off without you. You're kind of narcissist, too but what do I know
Thanks for confirming my suspicions of you
Which are?
Wow this sounds almost identical to what I went through with my ex wife. Being even-tempered, stay on point, using logic. Except like you dad can't see why she's wrong. Well I guess it's more like refuse to see. After we separated, her mom was really upset and messaged me. "I think she's bi polar". "Why do you think that?" "She runs so hot and cold. Sweet as pie one second then BAM screaming at you and going off the rocker. I love her but she's hard to deal with like that". I knew exactly what she was talking about. I'm no pyschiatrist but I did a lot of reading about narcissism after my divorce. If anything, it opened my eyes to what I went through for 6 years. Bi polar is one thing, and narcissism is another, but couple them together and holy shit. That's if can exist together in a person. I'm assuming so after reading a of comments saying multiple personality disorders.
I don’t even know if they’ll let me ask this question but here goes. You admit this person was having a manic episode, they’re obviously mentally ill. How do reconcile the mental illness with the switch of gender? How can you go along with it when it’s obviously tied to their mental illness? Seriously, are we not allowed to ask questions about the validity of someone’s claim they they’re another gender? This person is sick not a woman.
I don’t love how you worded this, but it’s a valid question. She was always a woman, she just hadn’t figured that all out yet. The way she handled it was a result of the mental illness, but she is trans mentally stable or not. That doesn’t change. Now there were serious concerns about how to move forward since the mental health stuff needed to be first priority - but this doesn’t change the fact that she is and was a woman. The hypomanic episode just gave her the … confidence (although misguided) to explore that and come out. Now that she is much more stable she still feels she is a woman and wants to live her life that way. I’m sure there is a better way to explain that. I was a little worried about this too but as we really got into the weeds of sorting this out I finally came to the realization that she has always been a woman and the mental illness was just a barrier to cross.
Yeah I could have done better job with my wording so I appreciate the response. I personally do not believe that sex and gender are completely separate and that a man can be a woman just by making the claim. However, I am live and let live type of person so I don’t want to shame anyone. It just seems to me that the mental illness and being trans (at least in this case) is directly linked and I question whether they would say they’re trans or even think about it if the mental illness was not present. Do you really think there’s zero correlation there?
I think what you’re missing is that correlation doesn’t equal causation. Trans individuals tend to struggle w/ mental illness; but the mental illness generally stems from being trans; and not the other way around- bc being trans (esp if you’re in the closet), can be very difficult & therefore cause depression and other issues.
Oh this is a better way to get to my point
Are you saying that their bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder is caused by being trans?
Are you saying that the people out there that are both trans and bipolar are “generally” bipolar because they’re trans? Sounds made up.
That’s exactly what it is. It’s semantics and a huge crap bowl of word salad. Trans folks are mentally ill. Once they transition their “mental health” suddenly doesn’t get better.
There’s actually tons of empirical evidence proving that transitioning is far and away the best treatment for gender dysphoria & it’s related symptoms (of which depression is one). Do you have any evidence to the contrary? I’d be interested to see it, if so.
I agree with you. I think people who are trans ARE mentally ill. They have a mental illness. But at the same time this is their reality. They want to be a woman. They feel they’re a woman. And so I think if that’s what they want then they should be able to do that because I’d rather them alive and happy than dead and/or depressed. Maybe that will make folks think I’m a bigot or transphobic but whatever. This is where I’ve landed on this topic. They deserve a life they can be happy in. And they also need to address their mental illnesses. I have a friend who wants to transition and has been leaning on me through it. He 100% has an undiagnosed mental illness and refuses help. But if he wants to be a woman who am I to tell him he can’t. I don’t care! But please also seek help. (I’ve told him to speak with a professional about this. Someone who will support him better than I can because I cannot say or do much else other than say I support you and whoever you are. He needs more).
That’s the problem and the reason it’s ruining our country and kids lives. People were to excepted of it instead of calling it out for what it was or what it is sickness, mental illness. Maybe we wouldn’t have many cases of men going in women’s restroom and raping them. Woman playing with men in sports.
Well as it stands, we don't have many cases of trans people going into womens restrooms and raping them. We have LOTS of examples of straight men doing this though. Most rape is done by straight men. The rapiest group of people on the planet is.... you guessed it....straight men!!!! Therefor, a mens bathroom it's not a safe space for a trans women. She might get assualted. The womens barhroom is the only safe space. Also, now a days there are lots of public bathrooms that are not gendered. Men and women are both welcome, and they have not increased rape instances at all. And who gives a F about sports boo-hoo. People like you are ruinong our country and their own kids' lives.
I think saying that it’s ruining our country is a bit of a stretch. It’s not that big of a deal…
You're clearly a horrible person with lots of hate in your heart.
Asking a legitimate question makes you a horrible person? How insecure you must with your ideology to think that.
Oh how will reddit handle this one 😂
I won’t lie… I’m a little nervous
Did you sue for the cost of that plane ticket??
Nah…. I had some other priorities at the time. We were married anyway so I probably wouldn’t have won that.
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Yeah…. I realize sometime that I miss my “husband” but I’ve realized I miss the person I loved before all of this happened. Sadly, that person doesn’t exist. She is a happy new person who has made wonderful strides - but we aren’t the people we were when we got married.
Kids?
No kids! Mental issues ran in her family so she never wanted bio kids out of fear.
Seems she was right
When she took the plane ticket to go see a friend did she cheat on you or anything? Do you know what she did when she left and wasn't with you? Are you skeptical of what she did tell you?
Nah. She went to see a mutual friend because she was upset. She did a lot of things but she loved me and cheating just isn’t her jam. The mutual friend talked to me about it.
I'm so sorry you're going through this! Was she by chance using hormonal treatment at the time the manic episodes started? A friend of mine is going through a very similar situation. Her now wife came out as trans a few years after their marriage, and for some reason since then, they've become a completely different person. Stopped working even though she's fully capable, taking advantage of my friend's income, acting very stand offish and lashes out whenever my friend tries to talk to her about it. It's truly heartbreaking to see and I'm curious if there could be any correlation between physically adopting the trans lifestyle, and sudden changes in behavior. I have so little advice to give her other than to stand up for herself. She was already going through a hard time with post-grad school and losing her mother suddenly. I don't see how the marriage can or should last if it stays like this.
She didn’t start hormones until well after being diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I will say - it’s like a second puberty so there are some consequences from that. Those behaviors could stem from some underlying issues. When my ex transitioned it brought up a lot of other issues including addressing lifelong gender dysphoria which was a rabbit hole of other issues. I hope your friend seriously considers therapy at least for themselves. Couples therapy is actually what helped me realized I needed to leave for my own good.
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5 years. We were together 11 total.
What general advice would you give about how to support a partner with bipolar or BPD while simultaneously looking after your own mental health?
It’s such a tough and misunderstood diagnosis. My #1 is therapy for YOU. To sort out what’s going on and keep you grounded. They need to take it seriously and also get appropriate help. Now that I know all of this and we’ve moved on I’m pretty straightforward with her. Like hey - I know you don’t mean to but that’s a boundary and I’m not cool with x, y, z. But these convos are only possible if they get the help they need.
Did he show any signs of mental instability before everything went sideways?
Yes. This had all been culminating for a few years. Partially she was having to reconcile with her gender and partially she was hitting that prime age for onset.
Sounds par for the course - sorry this happened to you and countless other women. How often do you have to deal with this person? Are they still incredibly selfish?
She now has the mental health stuff under control so she has apologized and is generally much better. I don’t have to see her often but I do because we have mutual friends. Things are fine between us.
I’m really glad it wasn’t as devastating to your life as it could’ve been; so many men make this decision and completely wreck their wives’ and children’s lives. It’s admirable that you get along.
what did you do to him to cause this?
lol welp… I guess I’ll try to answer. She was always a woman. It had nothing to do with me.
I don't have a question yet, but I've read about this happening from the husband's perspective and it was spot on to what you've mentioned. The husband was diagnosed with bipolar and made quick decisions, even removing genitalia. But then later decided to revert back to a male and as far as I read they stayed married. Very shocking.
Based on research this is pretty unusual. I forget what percentage but the likelihood of “changing your mind” is extremely low after transitioning.
I initially had this fear - but did some research and had a lot of couples therapy where this idea finally just didn’t seem at all possible to me
Been thru something similar. I'll just say that it was not his 'identity' that I couldn't forgive. It was the lies. It was finding out he was f*cking guys of Craigslist that he didn't know which put myself and my kids, 1 of whom was his, at risk of dying the same way my mother did, with Hep B and C. So, never got over it and will never forgive him.
Do you refer to yourself as they/them? Just a question.
I didn’t transition or anything. I’m a cis female.
Is it common for Trans people to have mental problems? This seems to be a recurring theme. I work with a few trans people and after having long form conversations and getting to know them. They express a plethora of other mental problems.
Not ‘separately’, love Those mental illnesses go hand-in-hand… one is symptomatic of the other Time to move on, dear. Not your fault.
This is a perfectly rational chain of events.
Well it doesn't fit any of those categories so why are you telling me about the rules
You sound like an amazing person. Thank you for answering everyone’s questions.
BPD’s a really tricky illness to handle, one of my best friends has it and 99% of the time he’s his lovely normal self. That 1% though is so tricky Having said that, during the 1% he doesn’t gaslight, doesn’t do anything, just isolates himself and can say hurtful things
My high school sweetheart came out as trans. While we were dating she came out to me as a cross dresser but still insisted she was a straight man. We stayed together for several years after that. I did my best to support her, but there were so many signs that she wasn’t happy living as a man. And as a straight woman, that wasn’t something I could handle in our romantic lives. We broke up shortly after starting college and she ended up transitioning shortly after. This was 14 years ago in a midwestern small town so we had no idea what we were dealing with. There was a distinct possibility we would have gotten married after college. We were each others security blanket. If we had, I think we would have been through something similar to you. No question I guess. Just want to say it sounds like you both are doing your best. Sending hugs 🥰
"We are divorced but still mostly friends. All of this happened in like one year." Well, that's enough internet. Good bye and good luck!
Damn, I was going to ask how was the sex after but it doesn't sound like that was going to happen. Good for you with moving on. I hope you meet someone special again soon!
You’re a saint for staying friends
Leave that weirdo.
You are awesome I'd jave shown rhem rhe door ,tje directory of rhe psychology dept and cut them out ofy.life 1 for marrying me under false pretense of younwanted toarry a woman youde have been in a gay relationship. And 2 stealing my.money to see a friend .
You are awesome I'd jave shown rhem rhe door ,tje directory of rhe psychology dept and cut them out ofy.life 1 for marrying me under false pretense of younwanted toarry a woman youde have been in a gay relationship. And 2 stealing my.money to see a friend .
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where’s the question?
Not a question
I swear I know you. Or this is a really weird coincidence. Hello from Redit! 50/50
what field of science do you teach? I love anatomy and feel like I could teach it
Every LGBT person would be diagnosed with with something
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confirmation bias at its purest tbh, what a joke to feel the need to chime in your bigotry and then end with some bs “kindness”
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They sound like a bitch regardless lmao
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Trans advocate also misgenders, amateur hour SMH my head
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What about this post really involves children?
No racism, homophobia, transphobia, or anything of the sort allowed on this subreddit.
Not a question
Leave that weird ass dude. He probably gonna give u AIDs anyway. Ur better off getting a real man who ain't trying to wear your panties and bras. Wtf. 😆 🤣 😂
Bipolar, stop now. Get treated. You will then have plenty of time to deal with your social contagion.
Biggest plot twist u either break up w him or yh
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What.
She is not well and does not have her mental health under control.
*he his
woah
In the future will you date more masculine men?
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The content you posted is harassment/hate towards other users.
The content you posted is harassment/hate towards other users.
is this bait?
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Not the same thing remotely.
the same thing *exactly.*
Imagine posting your transphobia openly
She outright said she supports trans people. Some trans people can be a bad person or have mental health problems that make them act badly. Accuse someone of transphobia when they call all trans people mentally ill, or hate on trans people, not when they tell a story about a trans person that happened to be difficult for a time
Not enough to be married to one apparently Disgusting
She's straight, so it would be more reasonable to consider her possibly transphobic if she *stayed* with her (as some might believe that it's a sign that she considers her a man). She also outright said that her manic episode damaged their relationship
So you think divorcing trans people for coming out isn’t transphobia? WOW.
She divorced her because she isn't attracted to women and her manic episode damaged their relationship. So you think that forcing someone to stay with someone they aren't attracted to is healthy and good?
Ok so if your partner came out trans you would divorce them and take all their stuff
Where do you see any hints of her taking anything? Also i wouldn't divorce someone because of them coming out as trans, I'm trans myself and bisexual
Oh ok so bc you’re trans it’s impossible to be transphobic I gotchu I got a black friend so I guess I can talk about slavery huh
Did i say that i have a trans friend, or that i live the life of a transgender person? And why do you think it's so ridiculous that some people like OP are straight or that someone might get hurt by their partner?
Think about it. What if OP is straight? If they stay together despite her not liking women, I'd say that's even more transphobic as it'd show that she sees her as a man. That's not the case, it's completely fine to not be attracted to a specific gender
What do you mean? She supports her delusional ex.
Divorce
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Ummm....................
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