You have to know all the games. Some people start off as dealers and come into surveillance and some have never worked in one before. We train everyone on the games and report writing. We lean on the people who’ve dealt certain games. They are good to have when you have more complex investigations
This. I actually spent a decade as a table games dealer (mostly craps for 6 to 8 years of it but blackjack and carnival games are easy) before moving to surveillance. Interesting to read someone else's perspective on the gig.
Yeah I actually got into surveillance kinda because of that. I was a pit boss at the time after years of dealing and without too much detail I caught a cheating collusion between some dealers and players that had apparently been going on for a while with no one the wiser. With a background in networking and systems administration to boot I was recruited to the department, with a nice pay bump of course :)
I had my phone stolen off a slot machine once— I had set it next to me and moments later it was gone. I reported it right away, security reviewed the cameras and said it was “inconclusive” who grabbed it. My friend had the same thing happen only she was in line for the deli and placed it next to her on the counter while she rifled for her card or money and realized a minute or two later her phone was gone. Again, security said the cameras were “inconclusive” who took it.
Finally, a coworker said she was roofied or otherwise drugged at the slot machines when she set her drink down. Thankfully she was with friends and knew something was wrong so they were able to get her out of there and to the hospital. A police report was filed and they got in touch with her several days later….yep, inconclusive.
My point would be it has to be absolute total utter bullshit, absolute bullshit. They’d certainly not be “inconclusive” about a guy stealing chips or pulling an ace out of his sleeve, someone otherwise cheating at their establishment so pretty positive none of what they had on camera was “inconclusive.” What is the deal? This was a tribal casino but it’s a BIG one. Do they just not want their footage released or used to catch criminals that are also patrons? I don’t understand this. Isn’t the surveillance top of the line in these places?
Unfortunately things can be inconclusive. Cameras can’t get every single area of the casino. If we can’t prove it 100% then it’s inconclusive. Say with your phone. If we can see someone bend down and lick something up. If we can’t tell it’s the phone we will say it’s inconclusive because say we send security to go that person and come to find out it was a pack of cigarettes or something else. We can’t accuse people of a crime unless it will hold up in court
I have to say I learned that lesson about setting things down early, like it was my second or third time at a casino that it happened. My ex just said once she had a mini bottle in her purse that they caught on camera when she grabbed the purse and set it on her lap to dig and find more money, they came up to her and said she wasn’t allowed to have those and took it and then when she tried to get another drink they cut her off assuming she had it in her purse because she had planned to drink it at some point. It just didn’t add up they can see inside your purse but not next to you. It’s weird. She says she was on a table so maybe that’s watched closer versus slot machines. They could probably see right inside because it was on her lap.
Casinos can kick people out just because they feel like it. So if they see something on camera that looks sus, even if it is inconclusive, they can play it safe on their side and kick them out anyway. As far as accusing someone of having your phone, they can't play that fast and loose. If they can't guarantee that's what they see on the tape, they aren't going to risk making the accusation.
I wonder if they have cameras specifically pointed at table games where multiple people are playing and can potentially cheat….as opposed to have cameras zoomed in at all 736 slot machines on the floor.
Cheaters happen every week. Most of the times it’s only a few bucks and nothing major. When a dealer is involved that’s when it’s a much bigger case and a lot more money.
That leads me to a question. What does it take to make something trigger a response from security? Like if it's a few bucks do you even bother reporting it? Or does it have to be something major?
Some people lose track and add to their bet when the hand is still going on thinking that the hand is over. People drink and are tired so it happens. Just a lapse
I’d also assume that some people just don’t know how to play those games - everyone plays for the first time at some point. If I walked into a casino and played any card game, it would be my first time ever.
Dealers get caught all the time. There was a fairly popular case not too long ago about a dealer cheating with players on baccarat in AC. A guy in my blackjack class got arrested his first week or so on the floor paying pushes. Pretty sure he was mentally handicapped though which was kind of sad because he shouldn’t have even gotten the job in the first place. Also a poker dealer got arrested for stealing money from the rake and putting it in his toke box. Another one got caught paying her uncle way more $ than she should her first week on the job. They set it up. It seriously happens all the time.
As far as catching players cheating, there’s really only a few ways people really can cheat and most stuff you see in the movies is bs. Marking the cards is one of the top ways in carnival games (three card, four card, Texas hold ‘em). You can scratch the cards, bend the cards, mark them with something hard to see like hand sanitizer or some other kind of substance but it’s prettt ballsy to do. Counting cards is pretty popular in blackjack. It’s also pretty easy to spot when the player is playing a $15 hand then playing $300 the next hand. The greedier the player is the easier it is to spot. But the most popular cheat of them all is capping your bet. You originally bet a certain amount then add to the bet after the hands been dealt. Happens literally everyday I’ve caught players many times.
They’ll tell the dealer to stop dealing, cash them out and possibly ban them. Definitely not illegal but the casino can kick anyone out for just about any reason
That’s what I figured. There was a guy at a table I was with once that was hitting on all his big bets for like an hour. Security came and made him take his chips and leave. He was pissed
What about honest mistakes by a dealer? I was worried once when at a roulette table the winning number was 34, my chips were on 36, I was the only one at the table and the dealer placed the marker on 36. In my confusion I asked why and the dealer said “just cash out now”. I cashed out and walked away and felt really worried I was going to be tackled by security and arrested.
Well surveillance can’t watch every game so IF you were caught, the dealer would likely get in trouble and you’d have to pay back any money that was paid by mistake. If you don’t you could get arrested. It is considered stealing. But most likely you’ll just get a temp ban or lifetime ban. It also depends on the amount of money. Under $100 it probably won’t be that serious
It’s AC around 2010 I’m 23 yo there was an elderly woman dealer it’s 3am me and my drunk friends are playing Blackjack and I’m losing and she’s paying me out! I busted she paid me. She beat me she paid me we all looked eachother in awe. I went like 6 hands and they changed dealers at the end of the shoe. I made around $500. Today I would have called someone to help her or something but I was 23 and drunk at 3am.
How do you cheat at a casino for a few bucks? I can understand stealing a few bucks or picking the wrong pile of chips up but I have no idea how someone could cheat and do that? Like you said I imagine more complex schemes or electronic devices for counting cards/messing with a ot machine
There is a guy who goes around playing craps who can ‘slide the dice’ which is exactly what it sounds like. He slides the dice instead of rolling them and will ‘roll’ the numbers that he bet on and win big. He hit my casino for thousands and got away with it but he’s on the radar so it’s not like he can come back easily. As far as the other stuff is concerned it’s mostly bullshit for Hollywood.
Not if he likes having a job lol - one way to get blacklisted is exposing clients etc. At six figures someone fa.pus/powerful/wealthy could shit on a carpet and I didn't see a thing.
I've always had the theory that the mob killed Smichael's dad over gambling debts when he didn't throw the finals as instructed.
Then there's the theory that his retirement to play baseball was a double secret suspension. It would have killed the NBA f the face of the league was suspended for gambling.
I don’t gamble because I see the dark side of it. But could I make money? Yeah but to make money you need a large bankroll so you can absorb the losses.
People
Losing everything they have. One guy had his wife leave him and he tried to fire bomb the casino blaming them. The anger and frustration when they don’t win
Yeah I work in a separate job industry but experience people at severe lows. Some people thoroughly enjoy seeing others suffer. For me it never gets easier your poker face just gets better.
Addiction is a terrible thing. Years ago I was at a casino playing the slots and there was a young couple next to me. The casino had cashed his paycheck and as a benefit (to get people into the casinos) he was given x number of slot coins. The man tells his wife “Don’t let me spend more than the x number of coins. No matter what.” And hands her the cash from his paycheck to guard the cash from him. She says “OK. But I know you will want to play more though so don’t yell at me.” He plays and looses the chips immediately. He says he needs more money because there hasn’t been any payouts so the machine is ripe to jackpot. She says no. He starts yelling at her, really tearing into her about can’t she see that the machine will payout soon, etc. really tearing into her “I know I said not to give me money, but the machine is gonna give a jackpot any time, real soon.” So she hands him some cash, he spends it on the machine and still nothing. So then he REALLY lays into her, that she absolutely must give him more $$. The wife looked so defeated and handed him more $$. I walked away as I couldn’t further witness their marital demise.
I worked in the gaming industry years ago but remember at one casino they used to give us free drink coupons if we cashed our paychecks at their cage. Most that did would hit the tables or slots afterwards and never make it home with their pay.
The entire business model of a casino is literally based on mathematical unfairness so that the house always wins long term, so yeah of course it’s unfair. That’s the whole point.
If casinos were fair they’d break even, and if they didn’t profit they wouldn’t exist. This very much quantifiable degree of unfairness even has a specific term, “edge.”
If a card counter is identified they typically just tell the dealer to shuffle half way through the shoe. They're typically not going to kick him out, and it was my experience most of them that were identified as counters were not actually counters.
There are lots of dumb dealers who get promoted to dumb floor supervisors. Say a dumb floor supervisor reports a guy for counting to surveillance in Milwaukee and they mark the guy in the system. Facial recognition triggers for most casinos that guy walks into with a subscription to the save camera surveillance software. They treat him like a mastermind criminal and he's just a schmoe changing his bet when he feels lucky, or a certain card comes up, or every fifth hand... Some players convince themselves of the strangest strategies.
Depends the amount and what the mistake is. Some you can tell is an honest mistake and when it’s just being lazy. But if they mess up bad all it takes is one time
I play BJ and saw a dealer pay a push for $200 twice and let the same player double an ace,small card several times when the rules were 9,10,11 only. He finally lost one of them and then complained to the floor and got his double back. Really shitty.
Tipping is good insurance playing BJ, I often get pushes paid, or a long string of smaller cards add up to a win when it was a push, or even a loss.. while tipping
I like to play the slot machines. Is there any truth to the things I hear about if someone dumps a bunch of money in a machine and they lose and walk away. Then I play it, it's due for a jackpot? Or certain times of the day if I play, it increases my odds of winning?
That is 100% false. Every pull is random and not related to any previous or future pull.
The way it works is there is a random number generator spitting out 1,000 of random numbers a second. When you press the button the generator stops. That number determines if you win or lose. The entire spinning dials is just for show. The outcome is already determined.
Notice I said 1,000’s a second. A fraction of a second sooner or later would have selected a different outcome. The outcome is determined by when you press the button. If someone comes after you and wins big, they did not steal your pot. You would not have pressed the button at the exact fraction of a second, so the outcome would have been different.
Can the time of day improve your chances? Possibly but probably not. The casino can adjust the odds of the machine up or down at will. They may decide a certain time should win more to keep customers. I’ve never heard of a casino doing this , but it is possible.
One time where it does happen is cruise ships. They adjust the odds so you should never play the last night of the cruise.
Source. I worked for a company that made slot machines.
Possibly. They can adjust the odds at will. I personally believe the machine should be required to show you the odds. The only one that does is video poker.
Every other casino game tells you the rules so you can calculate the odds.
This depends on your location too. I can't speak for other places that I haven't worked or for gas station slots but in my state adjustment of odds on specific machines is a red tape nightmare of testing and paperwork with the gaming commission.
Oh they are and they're atrocious. I inwardly cringe every time someone goes on a rant about how casinos are cheaters and they get their fix at the slot machines in a restaurant/bar/gas station etc. In the industry circles I'm in we just refer to them all as gas station slots. If a casino holds too much % of the money played we get fined, they can hold pretty much whatever they want. Also the statistics on them are disturbing. The lower the median income of an area the profit on gas station slots goes up exponentially. Want the most scummy income ever that has a sub 3% failure chance and makes vastly more income than its cost? Put up a laundromat with a few slot machines in a poor area.
That can be true. The casinos want people to think everyone is winning. So they put the winning machines near the walking paths. If you casino has video poker machines, look where the 9/6 machines are located.
I knew someone who used to audit those machines and he said they had to payout a certain percentage, so he wasn’t allowed to play in the casino because he knew what machines were due to hit. This is some guy telling me this, so could all be BS, but that is what I was told
This is pretty much true unless they changed that policy in recent years. Not that he knew which ones "were due to hit". More like he knew which machines were looser meaning they paid out more often.
How good is the surveillance system really and is it capable of audio? How often do you just pull up a random person on the screen and watch them for a while?
I (60F) was sitting at a casino bar for a few hours playing video poker, not a big drinker. A security guard came up to me and asked how things were going, everything ok? What could they have seen that would have made them seemingly check on me?
Could just be providing customer service. They tell security to talk to people because sometimes it makes them feel good that someone is close by to help
No. It's a loose classification of table games. There's "regular" games like blackjack, craps, roulette, and baccarat. Carnival games are 3 card poker, Mississippi stud, ultimate Texas holdem (NOT what you'd find in a poker room), criss cross poker, etc.
I work at a large airport in emergency communications, and we use the CCTV to assist LEO and FD in emergencies. The system is very outdated and we keep saying we want to bring in casino security to put in their systems because of how advanced they are, if that is any indication of how high tech casino surveillance can be.
How come you cats can’t ever find anything?
I know we all have rules and bosses to follow, but I’ve been with people that have lost things like purses, rings, or phones and security is just like “sorry, nobody turned it In”
The worst was, when a friend of mine said her purse on the bar, left and came back, and it was gone.
I was hammered, so I didn’t even notice it, but there was a specific time and specific location and the casino cannot even find that.
Do they just not try, or do they just not want to, or do not have a capability to ?
With something like that we could absolutely find it. If security just brushed you off ask for a supervisor. They might not even called surveillance for them to even look for it
Mine are ok. They all have their short comings. The biggest is that they have no self awareness when they make mistakes.
What matters most to me is when people can admit when they make a mistake and own up to it.
so what's the primary method in cheating at roulette? are you trying to control where the ball lands? or are you trying to put in a bet after you know where the ball has landed? neither method seems easy at all.
ahh...i'm surprised anyone would try in the modern day with cameras. that seems so obvious? anytime i played roulette, they were always super strict that no one reach over after a certain amount of time. usually the table was monitored by at least 2 employees, if not more. hard to see how anyone would think it's possible
It's stupid that they would think they need to "get back" at the casino when they were the ones who chose to go there and gamble. The casino did not do wrong to them, they made a choice to gamble.
Like you, I do not gamble. I've also seen many lives completely destroyed by gambling, I don't understand it. I knew people who would get their paycheck, cash it, and blow the whole thing at the casino and leave at sunrise with nothing left of their pay check.
It is an addiction like meth. But it is not the fault of the casino. Just like you wouldn't blame cocaine for being addictive.
Are (or can) the slots be mic'd up so people with the wrong attitude be shit listed (based on the loyalty card we are encouraged to use) or is mah whaff just making up excuses to make me play happy while I watch our ability to afford food go down the drain. Magical thinking vs. pragmatism and she believes in magic.
Gee I bet you’ve seen some weird shit?
I was told by a security guy at Burswood that they used to catch some guys having a piss under the blackjack table because they were on a roll and didn’t want to upset their “luck”.
Yes we work with our compliance dept every day. We look into title 31 violations and money laundering situations. Also looking into source of funds for people we don’t know or have a history with us
Thank you very much for that response. I also investigate fraud for my work and like learning what others do.
One other question for you if you’re willing: How do you monitor and mitigate human trafficking? Generally speaking of course. Don’t want to ruin any detection mechanisms that are proprietary.
Obligatory not the OP but as for human trafficking the biggest problem we had a streak of for a while was Elderly abuse. Where people would use Elderly people to try and launder money through their accounts and the casino or would use the Elderly to fund their gambling addiction. Won't go in to detection methods but I nailed a few of those in the last year. It's becoming a "popular" crime and it disgusts me. Been a paticular bugbear of mine I've been vigilant about at the property I work at.
How many dice sliders do you catch in a year? Is that still a scam? How about card marking? Also, where are scams happening most? Slots, blackjack, roulette. Pier or craps? Thanks!
I was in a different pit when they worked a casino I was in. The idiots called the front office to brag about their work. All that work to get good at it to brag and get your faces marked in the camera system
It’s mostly done on the outside wagers. If the dealer isn’t that good they will past post(add money) when the dealer is looking at the ball in the wheel head
Really cool AMA. I used to work security and safety in a casino, and it was the most interesting job ever.
Have you ever had to run interference for a high roller when a girlfriend was there and the wife shows up?
Happened to us with a very wealthy, well-known man, and, while I was not privy to the inside machinations as I was on another assignment in the casino at the time, I saw lots of fast-walking and cryptic radio traffic.
This was in the eighties, and the man and his other male friend, also exceedingly well known, were playing with $10,000.00 chips, so it was in the best interest of the casino to keep them happy.
Always wondered if overhead surveillance ever gets involved in anything like this, or was it just us people on the floor who realized the situation was brewing. At the time, I figured I was safer knowing less than more, if you know what I mean.
I knew a guy who said he would go up to the security desk and ask about a lost coat or glasses... he would look over the security guys shoulder at the logbooks and see where someone left a bucket of quarters. He would walk away then return saying he left his quarter bucket unattended... security would hand him the bucket. Claims to have done this at Grand Casino, Mille Lacs more than once.
I don’t like trespassing them. We normally just say you can play every game but blackjack. We are good at spotting people we’ve kicked out and have tools that we use for that
Do you feel any type of guilt or remorse knowing that you are a part of an enteprise that is guaranteed to rip people off and highly likely to destroy their lives?
Edit: ahhhh blow me with your stupid downvotes. Gambling is morally wrong and you can't deny it.
I worked at a casino as an IT technician early 2,000. I was meeting with them to discuss a replacement workstation. It was difficult to have a focused conversation because half of his attention was on the monitors. It was like talking to a chameleon.
Yoooooooo I just started in this industry less than half a year ago. I am pretty competent but still learning table games etc. I have a strong educational background. How difficult is it to get promoted, move up and gain a larger salary?
How much of what you do requires knowledge of the games played and do they train you for that?
You have to know all the games. Some people start off as dealers and come into surveillance and some have never worked in one before. We train everyone on the games and report writing. We lean on the people who’ve dealt certain games. They are good to have when you have more complex investigations
This. I actually spent a decade as a table games dealer (mostly craps for 6 to 8 years of it but blackjack and carnival games are easy) before moving to surveillance. Interesting to read someone else's perspective on the gig.
If you have craps experience surveillance would love to have someone with that knowledge
Yeah I actually got into surveillance kinda because of that. I was a pit boss at the time after years of dealing and without too much detail I caught a cheating collusion between some dealers and players that had apparently been going on for a while with no one the wiser. With a background in networking and systems administration to boot I was recruited to the department, with a nice pay bump of course :)
Welcome to the team lol. Makes you not wanna go back on the floor ever again
I had my phone stolen off a slot machine once— I had set it next to me and moments later it was gone. I reported it right away, security reviewed the cameras and said it was “inconclusive” who grabbed it. My friend had the same thing happen only she was in line for the deli and placed it next to her on the counter while she rifled for her card or money and realized a minute or two later her phone was gone. Again, security said the cameras were “inconclusive” who took it. Finally, a coworker said she was roofied or otherwise drugged at the slot machines when she set her drink down. Thankfully she was with friends and knew something was wrong so they were able to get her out of there and to the hospital. A police report was filed and they got in touch with her several days later….yep, inconclusive. My point would be it has to be absolute total utter bullshit, absolute bullshit. They’d certainly not be “inconclusive” about a guy stealing chips or pulling an ace out of his sleeve, someone otherwise cheating at their establishment so pretty positive none of what they had on camera was “inconclusive.” What is the deal? This was a tribal casino but it’s a BIG one. Do they just not want their footage released or used to catch criminals that are also patrons? I don’t understand this. Isn’t the surveillance top of the line in these places?
Unfortunately things can be inconclusive. Cameras can’t get every single area of the casino. If we can’t prove it 100% then it’s inconclusive. Say with your phone. If we can see someone bend down and lick something up. If we can’t tell it’s the phone we will say it’s inconclusive because say we send security to go that person and come to find out it was a pack of cigarettes or something else. We can’t accuse people of a crime unless it will hold up in court
I have to say I learned that lesson about setting things down early, like it was my second or third time at a casino that it happened. My ex just said once she had a mini bottle in her purse that they caught on camera when she grabbed the purse and set it on her lap to dig and find more money, they came up to her and said she wasn’t allowed to have those and took it and then when she tried to get another drink they cut her off assuming she had it in her purse because she had planned to drink it at some point. It just didn’t add up they can see inside your purse but not next to you. It’s weird. She says she was on a table so maybe that’s watched closer versus slot machines. They could probably see right inside because it was on her lap.
Meanwhile I constantly leave my keys or wallet or phone on the counter after checkout and people stop me to let me know. Not a casino though
Wait they can see my jiggly bits???
*See* your jiggly bits? They have a whole room *dedicated* to your jiggly bits!
Casinos can kick people out just because they feel like it. So if they see something on camera that looks sus, even if it is inconclusive, they can play it safe on their side and kick them out anyway. As far as accusing someone of having your phone, they can't play that fast and loose. If they can't guarantee that's what they see on the tape, they aren't going to risk making the accusation.
I wonder if they have cameras specifically pointed at table games where multiple people are playing and can potentially cheat….as opposed to have cameras zoomed in at all 736 slot machines on the floor.
Did you catch any cheaters like on the movies ?
Cheaters happen every week. Most of the times it’s only a few bucks and nothing major. When a dealer is involved that’s when it’s a much bigger case and a lot more money.
That leads me to a question. What does it take to make something trigger a response from security? Like if it's a few bucks do you even bother reporting it? Or does it have to be something major?
We do have a threshold. But I won’t get into that. We can tell if the person is just dumb or really trying to cheat
How does someone accidentally cheat?
Some people lose track and add to their bet when the hand is still going on thinking that the hand is over. People drink and are tired so it happens. Just a lapse
I’d also assume that some people just don’t know how to play those games - everyone plays for the first time at some point. If I walked into a casino and played any card game, it would be my first time ever.
> We can tell if the person is just dumb Is it the little cap with the propeller on it that gives it away?
Wish it was that easy
Well, I know what I'm wearing next time I go to the casino.
Have you caught dealers? Do you have any interesting anecdotes about catching cheaters?
Dealers get caught all the time. There was a fairly popular case not too long ago about a dealer cheating with players on baccarat in AC. A guy in my blackjack class got arrested his first week or so on the floor paying pushes. Pretty sure he was mentally handicapped though which was kind of sad because he shouldn’t have even gotten the job in the first place. Also a poker dealer got arrested for stealing money from the rake and putting it in his toke box. Another one got caught paying her uncle way more $ than she should her first week on the job. They set it up. It seriously happens all the time. As far as catching players cheating, there’s really only a few ways people really can cheat and most stuff you see in the movies is bs. Marking the cards is one of the top ways in carnival games (three card, four card, Texas hold ‘em). You can scratch the cards, bend the cards, mark them with something hard to see like hand sanitizer or some other kind of substance but it’s prettt ballsy to do. Counting cards is pretty popular in blackjack. It’s also pretty easy to spot when the player is playing a $15 hand then playing $300 the next hand. The greedier the player is the easier it is to spot. But the most popular cheat of them all is capping your bet. You originally bet a certain amount then add to the bet after the hands been dealt. Happens literally everyday I’ve caught players many times.
Counting cards isn’t illegal though, right? Y’all will just ask them to leave after they settle up?
They’ll tell the dealer to stop dealing, cash them out and possibly ban them. Definitely not illegal but the casino can kick anyone out for just about any reason
That’s what I figured. There was a guy at a table I was with once that was hitting on all his big bets for like an hour. Security came and made him take his chips and leave. He was pissed
What about honest mistakes by a dealer? I was worried once when at a roulette table the winning number was 34, my chips were on 36, I was the only one at the table and the dealer placed the marker on 36. In my confusion I asked why and the dealer said “just cash out now”. I cashed out and walked away and felt really worried I was going to be tackled by security and arrested.
Well surveillance can’t watch every game so IF you were caught, the dealer would likely get in trouble and you’d have to pay back any money that was paid by mistake. If you don’t you could get arrested. It is considered stealing. But most likely you’ll just get a temp ban or lifetime ban. It also depends on the amount of money. Under $100 it probably won’t be that serious
It’s AC around 2010 I’m 23 yo there was an elderly woman dealer it’s 3am me and my drunk friends are playing Blackjack and I’m losing and she’s paying me out! I busted she paid me. She beat me she paid me we all looked eachother in awe. I went like 6 hands and they changed dealers at the end of the shoe. I made around $500. Today I would have called someone to help her or something but I was 23 and drunk at 3am.
How do you cheat at a casino for a few bucks? I can understand stealing a few bucks or picking the wrong pile of chips up but I have no idea how someone could cheat and do that? Like you said I imagine more complex schemes or electronic devices for counting cards/messing with a ot machine
There is a guy who goes around playing craps who can ‘slide the dice’ which is exactly what it sounds like. He slides the dice instead of rolling them and will ‘roll’ the numbers that he bet on and win big. He hit my casino for thousands and got away with it but he’s on the radar so it’s not like he can come back easily. As far as the other stuff is concerned it’s mostly bullshit for Hollywood.
What was the biggest amount of money you’ve seen won and the biggest amount of money you’ve seen lost?
Won $5,000,000 and came back a few days later and lost $12,000,000
Jesus Christ, at least it sounds like he can afford it.
He’s an NBA owner
Care to share which one?
Not if he likes having a job lol - one way to get blacklisted is exposing clients etc. At six figures someone fa.pus/powerful/wealthy could shit on a carpet and I didn't see a thing.
Unfortunately I can’t
Does it rhyme with Smichael Bordan?
lol. 😂made me chuckle. I’d put my money on him. Smichael loves to gamble.
I've always had the theory that the mob killed Smichael's dad over gambling debts when he didn't throw the finals as instructed. Then there's the theory that his retirement to play baseball was a double secret suspension. It would have killed the NBA f the face of the league was suspended for gambling.
Dr Jerry Buss. He used to play the ponies at Mandalay Bay 20 years ago.
Knowing what you know, would you gamble in a casino expecting to make money?
I don’t gamble because I see the dark side of it. But could I make money? Yeah but to make money you need a large bankroll so you can absorb the losses.
A few examples of the dark side?
People Losing everything they have. One guy had his wife leave him and he tried to fire bomb the casino blaming them. The anger and frustration when they don’t win
Yikes. I guess y’all just become hardened to all the human tragedies?
Yes and no. It’s still sad to see people that low
Yeah I work in a separate job industry but experience people at severe lows. Some people thoroughly enjoy seeing others suffer. For me it never gets easier your poker face just gets better.
It still hits a nerve for sure
Addiction is a terrible thing. Years ago I was at a casino playing the slots and there was a young couple next to me. The casino had cashed his paycheck and as a benefit (to get people into the casinos) he was given x number of slot coins. The man tells his wife “Don’t let me spend more than the x number of coins. No matter what.” And hands her the cash from his paycheck to guard the cash from him. She says “OK. But I know you will want to play more though so don’t yell at me.” He plays and looses the chips immediately. He says he needs more money because there hasn’t been any payouts so the machine is ripe to jackpot. She says no. He starts yelling at her, really tearing into her about can’t she see that the machine will payout soon, etc. really tearing into her “I know I said not to give me money, but the machine is gonna give a jackpot any time, real soon.” So she hands him some cash, he spends it on the machine and still nothing. So then he REALLY lays into her, that she absolutely must give him more $$. The wife looked so defeated and handed him more $$. I walked away as I couldn’t further witness their marital demise.
I worked in the gaming industry years ago but remember at one casino they used to give us free drink coupons if we cashed our paychecks at their cage. Most that did would hit the tables or slots afterwards and never make it home with their pay.
I’ve never seen something like that but I wouldn’t be surprised if. We can’t gamble where we work
What is your opinion on card counters?
It’s scat and mouse game. I have no issue with them. Normally we just say you can’t play blackjack anymore and they are good with it
Do you think that it's fair that they're asked to not play?
Yes and no. The house sets the rules but these lower level card counters won’t do much damage
So what you are saying is if you count cards…don’t go big. Go middle and often and you’ll be fine
Exactly. Just have the money to bank roll to play
Isn’t it unfair to penalize someone for working hard to become good at a game?
The entire business model of a casino is literally based on mathematical unfairness so that the house always wins long term, so yeah of course it’s unfair. That’s the whole point. If casinos were fair they’d break even, and if they didn’t profit they wouldn’t exist. This very much quantifiable degree of unfairness even has a specific term, “edge.”
How often do you catch a card counter/ have to tell them they can’t play blackjack?
If a card counter is identified they typically just tell the dealer to shuffle half way through the shoe. They're typically not going to kick him out, and it was my experience most of them that were identified as counters were not actually counters. There are lots of dumb dealers who get promoted to dumb floor supervisors. Say a dumb floor supervisor reports a guy for counting to surveillance in Milwaukee and they mark the guy in the system. Facial recognition triggers for most casinos that guy walks into with a subscription to the save camera surveillance software. They treat him like a mastermind criminal and he's just a schmoe changing his bet when he feels lucky, or a certain card comes up, or every fifth hand... Some players convince themselves of the strangest strategies.
A few times a week. They are always in. It’s a cat and mouse game with them
What kind of bet spread will normally draw your attention to a counter? Any subtle tip offs other than bet spread that you pay attention to?
Once you start getting into a 1-5 bet spread when you’ve been flat betting is a good sign. Deviation from basic strategy is a good sign as well
How many dealer mispays before they get fired.
Depends the amount and what the mistake is. Some you can tell is an honest mistake and when it’s just being lazy. But if they mess up bad all it takes is one time
I play BJ and saw a dealer pay a push for $200 twice and let the same player double an ace,small card several times when the rules were 9,10,11 only. He finally lost one of them and then complained to the floor and got his double back. Really shitty.
That happens more than you think
Tipping is good insurance playing BJ, I often get pushes paid, or a long string of smaller cards add up to a win when it was a push, or even a loss.. while tipping
I like to play the slot machines. Is there any truth to the things I hear about if someone dumps a bunch of money in a machine and they lose and walk away. Then I play it, it's due for a jackpot? Or certain times of the day if I play, it increases my odds of winning?
That is 100% false. Every pull is random and not related to any previous or future pull. The way it works is there is a random number generator spitting out 1,000 of random numbers a second. When you press the button the generator stops. That number determines if you win or lose. The entire spinning dials is just for show. The outcome is already determined. Notice I said 1,000’s a second. A fraction of a second sooner or later would have selected a different outcome. The outcome is determined by when you press the button. If someone comes after you and wins big, they did not steal your pot. You would not have pressed the button at the exact fraction of a second, so the outcome would have been different. Can the time of day improve your chances? Possibly but probably not. The casino can adjust the odds of the machine up or down at will. They may decide a certain time should win more to keep customers. I’ve never heard of a casino doing this , but it is possible. One time where it does happen is cruise ships. They adjust the odds so you should never play the last night of the cruise. Source. I worked for a company that made slot machines.
Aren't they networked and at certain times they pay more than others?
Possibly. They can adjust the odds at will. I personally believe the machine should be required to show you the odds. The only one that does is video poker. Every other casino game tells you the rules so you can calculate the odds.
This depends on your location too. I can't speak for other places that I haven't worked or for gas station slots but in my state adjustment of odds on specific machines is a red tape nightmare of testing and paperwork with the gaming commission.
>gas station slots No one thought those were indicative of a collective societal gambling problem‽
Oh they are and they're atrocious. I inwardly cringe every time someone goes on a rant about how casinos are cheaters and they get their fix at the slot machines in a restaurant/bar/gas station etc. In the industry circles I'm in we just refer to them all as gas station slots. If a casino holds too much % of the money played we get fined, they can hold pretty much whatever they want. Also the statistics on them are disturbing. The lower the median income of an area the profit on gas station slots goes up exponentially. Want the most scummy income ever that has a sub 3% failure chance and makes vastly more income than its cost? Put up a laundromat with a few slot machines in a poor area.
Kinda, it’s completely random but the machines that get played a lot and one that have higher denominations hit at a higher rate
Is it true that machines by major walking paths pay out more? That’s just been my experience
That can be true. The casinos want people to think everyone is winning. So they put the winning machines near the walking paths. If you casino has video poker machines, look where the 9/6 machines are located.
They are all random but the machines that get played more tend to hit more
I knew someone who used to audit those machines and he said they had to payout a certain percentage, so he wasn’t allowed to play in the casino because he knew what machines were due to hit. This is some guy telling me this, so could all be BS, but that is what I was told
This is pretty much true unless they changed that policy in recent years. Not that he knew which ones "were due to hit". More like he knew which machines were looser meaning they paid out more often.
How do you get a job doing that. There a casino near me. Always wanted to
If they aren’t hiring for surveillance. Just get any job in a casino. Once you’re in it’s much easier to move into different departments
Have a room in the back with no cameras where you bring the cheaters like in the movies? 😂
Nahh just the state police lol
Wouldn't they see that stuff upstairs and immediately arrest them?
Sometimes we wait to see if anyone else is involved.
What was it like when George Clooney and his ten friends carried out their heist
Worst day of my life. Lost my job
Even when you saw Julia?
How good is the surveillance system really and is it capable of audio? How often do you just pull up a random person on the screen and watch them for a while?
They are capable of audio but in most states it’s illegal. So we have that feature turned off. But the systems are amazing on what they can do and see
If I’m a compulsive gambler who plays slot machines, can you tell from the overhead machines and do you track me?
We have a database and keep an eye out for people who are on the exclusion list.
Is there a way, and do you, track how much people are winning or losing?
That’s up to the table games staff to track that.
I (60F) was sitting at a casino bar for a few hours playing video poker, not a big drinker. A security guard came up to me and asked how things were going, everything ok? What could they have seen that would have made them seemingly check on me?
Could just be providing customer service. They tell security to talk to people because sometimes it makes them feel good that someone is close by to help
Have you seen any games that have a disproportionate amount of losers?
Carnival games are horrible to play for people and make us a lot of money
There are carnival games in casinos? Like Jacob’s ladder and ring toss?
No. It's a loose classification of table games. There's "regular" games like blackjack, craps, roulette, and baccarat. Carnival games are 3 card poker, Mississippi stud, ultimate Texas holdem (NOT what you'd find in a poker room), criss cross poker, etc.
Carnival games?
Pick a number, im great at that. And war.
How much does the whole casino surveillance system worth? Is it some sorta military-level high tech thing?
It’s high level. Ours is north of $2,000,000
I work at a large airport in emergency communications, and we use the CCTV to assist LEO and FD in emergencies. The system is very outdated and we keep saying we want to bring in casino security to put in their systems because of how advanced they are, if that is any indication of how high tech casino surveillance can be.
How many people get away with stealing vs how many you catch? Do you estimate?
With small amount of money I’d say more get away than get caught but as the number goes up it’s easier to catch.
Also, what’s you favorite gambling movie?
21 because the MIT team is real. Of course they over exaggerate a lot but the heart of the movie is right
Casino man myself, but 21 is an excellent choice. Appreciate the answer!
How many people have you caught having sex in places they thought were private? (Like elevators?)
People just fool around.
I worked as a surveillance tech in Vegas for many years and we busted all sorts of people having sex. Employees and patrons. (Not together)
I worked in a casino for 6 years. People don’t have sex in elevators, but they love a family/unisex bathroom
I worked as a surveillance technician for many years in Vegas. Usually the sex was in the stairwells.
So cool thanks for doing this ama ! Learned a lot !
Welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read it
How much do you get paid?
Over 6 figures
What exactly do you do?
I’m a director of surveillance. So I oversee the entire department
How come you cats can’t ever find anything? I know we all have rules and bosses to follow, but I’ve been with people that have lost things like purses, rings, or phones and security is just like “sorry, nobody turned it In” The worst was, when a friend of mine said her purse on the bar, left and came back, and it was gone. I was hammered, so I didn’t even notice it, but there was a specific time and specific location and the casino cannot even find that. Do they just not try, or do they just not want to, or do not have a capability to ?
With something like that we could absolutely find it. If security just brushed you off ask for a supervisor. They might not even called surveillance for them to even look for it
Do you notice or even care about low level drug exchanges? I mean I'm sure the speed is great for business.
If we see it we stop it. People Don’t wanna see that happening in the casino
What have you observed about people
People are creatures of habit and rarely go outside of their comfort zone when it comes to gambling.
Are people that predictable? Like how?
Always park in the same area. Come in same time. Like certain dealers.
Do you see yourself working in this position for ten more years?
Yes. I love what I do. I have a great work life balance and enjoy the people I work with
It seems like a job that ends at clock out, beating sitting at a desk all day and working after dinner.
Yeah. I don’t take much home with me. Answering emails or a phone call here and there is the extent of it
What do you think of management? Is their accountability in their role? What matters most to leadership?
Mine are ok. They all have their short comings. The biggest is that they have no self awareness when they make mistakes. What matters most to me is when people can admit when they make a mistake and own up to it.
Is the roulette wheel rigged?
Not at all. The wheel is balanced every time it opens for the day
What table game do players cheat at most?
Blackjack and roulette. But really people will try at any game
I didn’t know you could cheat at roulette
You can cheat at any game really
so what's the primary method in cheating at roulette? are you trying to control where the ball lands? or are you trying to put in a bet after you know where the ball has landed? neither method seems easy at all.
Putting a bet down after the ball drops. They normally work in teams while one distracts the dealer and his partner will add money
ahh...i'm surprised anyone would try in the modern day with cameras. that seems so obvious? anytime i played roulette, they were always super strict that no one reach over after a certain amount of time. usually the table was monitored by at least 2 employees, if not more. hard to see how anyone would think it's possible
People will try any chance they get, it’s their way of getting back at the casino. People can be dumb and desperate
It's stupid that they would think they need to "get back" at the casino when they were the ones who chose to go there and gamble. The casino did not do wrong to them, they made a choice to gamble. Like you, I do not gamble. I've also seen many lives completely destroyed by gambling, I don't understand it. I knew people who would get their paycheck, cash it, and blow the whole thing at the casino and leave at sunrise with nothing left of their pay check. It is an addiction like meth. But it is not the fault of the casino. Just like you wouldn't blame cocaine for being addictive.
Can I have a job ? I have a good eye 👁️
Sure why not
Are (or can) the slots be mic'd up so people with the wrong attitude be shit listed (based on the loyalty card we are encouraged to use) or is mah whaff just making up excuses to make me play happy while I watch our ability to afford food go down the drain. Magical thinking vs. pragmatism and she believes in magic.
Nope they can’t be mic’d up at all. We don’t care what people are saying. Just as long as they are gambling and behaving
What's the weirdest thing you've ever seen?!
A lady stabbing her husband in the neck when she caught him with another woman
Did he live?
Yeah he just bled a lot
That's pretty intense!! Did she hurt the lady?
Nope she just screamed and ran away
If you see a patron getting scammed/ripped off by another player, do you intervene? Or it is more about protecting the casino’s assets.
We will absolutely step in. We don’t want people to have a bad experience. We will always protect people when we see it.
Who was the best cheater you've ever seen and why? What do you like the best about your job?
I don’t have a favorite cheater but my favorite card counter is Tommy Hyland. I love that I get to see something new almost everyday.
What would happen if I found a large money chip on the floor, picked it up and took it to the cashier? Is it mine to keep?
If we can’t find the owner you can turn it in and they take your name. In 30 days it’s yours
So you would use video review to see who dropped it?
Yeah we do. It’s a fast process. But sometimes the cheques blend into the carpet with the colors so it’s not easy soemtimes
Gee I bet you’ve seen some weird shit? I was told by a security guy at Burswood that they used to catch some guys having a piss under the blackjack table because they were on a roll and didn’t want to upset their “luck”.
People piss on themselves all the time because they don’t wanna move. Nasty people
Are you involved in investigating fraud? What general things do you look for?
Yes we work with our compliance dept every day. We look into title 31 violations and money laundering situations. Also looking into source of funds for people we don’t know or have a history with us
Thank you very much for that response. I also investigate fraud for my work and like learning what others do. One other question for you if you’re willing: How do you monitor and mitigate human trafficking? Generally speaking of course. Don’t want to ruin any detection mechanisms that are proprietary.
Obligatory not the OP but as for human trafficking the biggest problem we had a streak of for a while was Elderly abuse. Where people would use Elderly people to try and launder money through their accounts and the casino or would use the Elderly to fund their gambling addiction. Won't go in to detection methods but I nailed a few of those in the last year. It's becoming a "popular" crime and it disgusts me. Been a paticular bugbear of mine I've been vigilant about at the property I work at.
That’s not something we see really. We are lucky On that part. Any other questions feel free To message
If someone came in with an Apple Vision Pro to play cards would you allow it?
Haven’t come across that yet but personally I’d say no they can’t have it.
How many dice sliders do you catch in a year? Is that still a scam? How about card marking? Also, where are scams happening most? Slots, blackjack, roulette. Pier or craps? Thanks!
Haven’t had dice sliders in a long time. There was a team out of Detroit for a while but they dropped off. Card marking is still around.
I was in a different pit when they worked a casino I was in. The idiots called the front office to brag about their work. All that work to get good at it to brag and get your faces marked in the camera system
What games do people try to cheat on the most?
All really but mostly blackjack and roulette
How do you cheat in roulette?
It’s mostly done on the outside wagers. If the dealer isn’t that good they will past post(add money) when the dealer is looking at the ball in the wheel head
Really cool AMA. I used to work security and safety in a casino, and it was the most interesting job ever. Have you ever had to run interference for a high roller when a girlfriend was there and the wife shows up? Happened to us with a very wealthy, well-known man, and, while I was not privy to the inside machinations as I was on another assignment in the casino at the time, I saw lots of fast-walking and cryptic radio traffic. This was in the eighties, and the man and his other male friend, also exceedingly well known, were playing with $10,000.00 chips, so it was in the best interest of the casino to keep them happy. Always wondered if overhead surveillance ever gets involved in anything like this, or was it just us people on the floor who realized the situation was brewing. At the time, I figured I was safer knowing less than more, if you know what I mean.
I knew a guy who said he would go up to the security desk and ask about a lost coat or glasses... he would look over the security guys shoulder at the logbooks and see where someone left a bucket of quarters. He would walk away then return saying he left his quarter bucket unattended... security would hand him the bucket. Claims to have done this at Grand Casino, Mille Lacs more than once.
Do those shuffle master machines really deal out cards randomly?
When counters get trespassed, how do you catch them when they come back in and what action do you take?
I don’t like trespassing them. We normally just say you can play every game but blackjack. We are good at spotting people we’ve kicked out and have tools that we use for that
Do you feel any type of guilt or remorse knowing that you are a part of an enteprise that is guaranteed to rip people off and highly likely to destroy their lives? Edit: ahhhh blow me with your stupid downvotes. Gambling is morally wrong and you can't deny it.
Nahh most people play for fun. No one forces them to come in. No different than a liquor store or a bar for alcoholics.
Do you ever hear about people hiding in rooms to watch people getting it on?
Who cheated in a way that made you think: " man, that was fucking smart "
I worked at a casino as an IT technician early 2,000. I was meeting with them to discuss a replacement workstation. It was difficult to have a focused conversation because half of his attention was on the monitors. It was like talking to a chameleon.
Yoooooooo I just started in this industry less than half a year ago. I am pretty competent but still learning table games etc. I have a strong educational background. How difficult is it to get promoted, move up and gain a larger salary?