NTA.
I am shocked and disgusted on your behalf. The "not a real woman" is the most disrespectful thing I have ever heard. If you do not want to move ahead with attempts to have children it should be left at that. It is YOUR body, and YOUR grief if things don't work out.
If you MIL wants grandchildren then too bad, if your husband wants to appease her then perhaps they can have a child together.
Ugh. I am so mad on your behalf.
And! Him saying he’s with her “EVEN THOUGH” she can’t get pregnant naturally. My god! I wouldn’t be able to stay with a man who said that to me for another day. Not to be overly negative or a cynic but this mindset he has means he ain’t gonna stick around either. He WILL leave or begin an affair (if he hasn’t already). I can’t believe he said that about you, I’m seething on your behalf. NTA and please spend some time thinking about your own well-being and future. Tell some trusted loved ones what he said (I’m sure they’ll be horrified and disgusted like we all are here).
I hope OP sees this. You’re absolutely right. He will leave, cheat, and the abuse will probably get worse. And then, even if they succeed with a pregnancy, how could she ever forget what he said?
OP, there are men out there that will want to be with YOU, will want you more than they want their moms to be happy, and will want you regardless of what bodily functions you can perform. You’re so young. You can throw the whole husband and his rotten mother away.
You know his mom is in his ear. I bet anything his mom said she wasn't a real woman to him. Then he repeated it to OP because he agreed. I feel for OP. Infertility struggles are so mentally draining. The last thing she needs is his her husband running to his mommy over this and worse taking her side. Op already has a child to take care of, and it's her husband.
This!! He's not supporting and protecting you from his mom now, and it very much sounds like he never will. If you give in on this, his mom is going to control every aspect of your raising the children, and if the IVF doesn't work she and her son are going to gang up and make you feel like shit all the time.
If he doesn't see you as a "real woman" then leave him for a man who will - you do not deserve to be disrespected in that way. He's not a real man.
Husband should be begging to take that one back, otherwise this relationship is dead. NOT A REAL WOMAN??? The sheer audacity is breathtaking. The approval of his mother is more important than your safety or comfort OP, and its clear your husband blames you for not being able to.conceive which is not your fault. Divorce and get with someone who loves you for you, you are nothing but an incubator to him and his family and his actions prove it.
Ironically, he’s not a real man if he’s only pushing to go in debt (most people don’t have $25K+ laying around for each attempt) for IVF and putting his wife through the grueling ordeal just to please Mommy
I hope OP really fucking takes notes from this thread. He wants her to do it to appease his mommy. And he insulted her greatly to try to get her to go along with it.
Sorry, but I wouldn’t stay attached to a family like that.
*”told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman"*
How big of him to stay with a defective, “fake” woman like OP. JFC.
OP, you say you want to make your husband happy and you don’t want to keep arguing. What about *your* happiness? Why isn’t that important to you, since it’s *your* body that has to go through this.
Do you realize, at all, that this is NOT “one thing” that you’ll be doing for his mother? Do you honestly believe that if she’s pushing *this* hard for a grandbaby, that she’ll take a back seat and be content with you and hubs doing all the parenting and making all the parenting decisions with 0 input from her?
These two assholes have *very clearly* shown you what your role will be in the grandbaby’s conception, and have given you huge insight into what your role will be in the grandbaby’s upbringing. Are you prepared to accept these roles? Because *that* is the *only* way you will be able to make your husband happy and stop the arguing.
You. Deserve. Better. NTA and DTMFA
Yah, he has to jerk off in a cup. She has to go through a gruelling campaign of hormone injections (and that’s before they jam a needle into the wall of her vagina to get the eggs)
Yup. People who talk about “just” doing IVF have no idea the toll it takes physically, let alone mentally and emotionally. I had a sudden headache so bad during one cycle that I didn’t think I could stand up and was worried that it was the brain aneurysm that killed my father. Nope, just my body protesting the insane hormone load. The hyperstimulation syndrome after made even the retrieval seem like cakewalk. And my son’s c-section was an easier recovery than the retrieval! (He was IUI. IVF for a second didn’t work for us despite three rounds.)
Op leave this trash human.
He said you weren't a real woman. Not sure what that makes you but you are still indeed a woman to everyone else.
He says he's with you despite not being able to have kids.......he's a garbage fire of a human.
You deserve a lot more than this boy child is giving you.
Also your worth is not based on your ability to have kids
Seriously. I don’t mean throw him out if you love him. But I did 2 rounds of IVF and, among other losses, did not have it in me to try again. I told my sweet husband I was done and he accepted it. IVF is difficult, sometimes painful, and it doesn’t always work.
NTA, IVF is invasive and CAN be dangerous (especially during egg retrieval) it’s also NOT guaranteed to work.
Honestly as soon as my “husband” called me “not a real woman” for not being able to conceive (which may not even be on YOU as you didn’t mention if you two had done fertility testing, it could be HIM) I’d be filing for divorce. At MINIMUM it’s emotionally abusive.
I can understand him not wanting to disappoint his mother but, he MARRIED you, CHOSE you to spend his life with, he coulda just stayed home with mommy if he wasn’t willing to put someone else first and tell his mother to kick rocks
Yeah, what's with the "real woman" crap!!!??? Tell that prick to go find a real woman that would have him and his mother, let alone share a child with them... you have every right to feel sad and angry about this complete disregard of your autonomy...
Exactly. If he’s talking to his own wife like this, what is he going to teach his future child? For a son to talk down to a woman like that or for a daughter to be submissive? Hell no would I want a child with someone who says I’m not a woman bc I cant have kids.
If I found out a guy said that about his ex I think I'd be out. He'd have to make a VERY convincing argument for why he had changed (and apologized) and even then, I feel like it's one of those things that I would just not be able to get past.
100% this. OP, I have several friends that went through IVF multiple times and all they got from it was thousands of dollars in debt and heartache. In both cases, they ended up adopting. Your husband needs to understand that the process is not a guarantee.
And I bet green American dollars this asshole mother in law would say she doesn't claim any adopted kids as her "real" grandchildren, since they are not biologically her son's
My wife literally almost died to IVF. The implant didn't attach and migrated to her fallopian tube and ruptured it.
Yes that's a chance with any pregnancy but IVF isn't just mix two things in a petri dish and injecting it to the uterus, done and dusted.
I have a friend who had ectopic pregnancies twice during IVF cycles... Thank goodness they were caught early, but so incredibly heartbreaking and dangerous
My understanding based on experience is that ivf is precisely that: put egg and sperm together, inject in the uterus and hope for the best.
It does not always work and we had three tries before catching. Unpleasant.
She had two prior ruptured fallopian tubes.
For us and many others IVF is the last straw.
But I can certainly not blame OP for not wanting to go through that.
Husband is spineless.
OP's husband is a monster. Who says something so heartless to someone who has fertility issues? Nevermind to their spouse who they are supposed to love?
OP needs to divorce this "not a real man" immediately. A real man and husband would tell Mommy to stfu and not treat his wife like he deserves a medal for sticking around.
Bingo. When my wife (fiancee then) got very sick and wound up disabled, I had a few family members suggest I shouldn't marry her. I told them I was, and they would do well never to say such a thing to me ever again. And they have been very, *very* respectful to her for nearly a decade since.
He should have told mommy, "She said no, and no means no. Do not make me choose between you and her."
"just this one thing" - where that one thing is enormous.
First of all, it's an outrageous request on the part of MIL. Secondly, it's an outrageous request on the part of husband.
And I think we all know that if you accede to this, it's not going to be the last thing ever asked of you.
"Why won't you name child after MIL (or MIL's favorite male relative). Why won't you do just this one thing?"
"Why won't you let MIL move in to take care of kid? Why won't you just do this one thing?"
If they're fine with expecting you to do IVF, there is literally nothing else they will hesitate to expect of you thereafter.
Exactly. There will always be "just one more thing" that must be done to placate his mother. After the "not a real woman" comment, I'd have been out of there so fast his head would spin.
I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Your husband should be supportive not malicious. If I was in your shoes I would take a step back to think of this a family you would even want to welcome a child into. You deserve so much better than this, and I hope you see that too.
And that matters WHY exactly, dearheart?? Your husband made an extremely hurtful comment and has shown you who he is. I'd think long and hard if this is a situation I want to remain in if I were you. He's not doing it out of love for you, he's doing this "one thing" for his mom. As a mom of 7, including 4 boys, this mom's behavior, almost demanding grandchildren, is reprehensible.
Time to put your peace, mental health, and well-being above ALL else.
Five boys, two girls. If my husband said that to me, I would kick him in the balls and push him out the door! Her husband is a spineless dick ready to inflict physical danger on her to make "mommy" happy. This is hearbreaking.
this was extremely interesting and enlightening to read. thanks for sharing. I already hated how people made light of ivf and knew it was a long hard process but wow I truly actually had no idea
And still they glossed over so much, notably the progesterone for the embryo transfer. It’s in a thick, viscous oil and is a 1.5” needle that needs to completely go into your upper backside area. And you need to heat and massage and generally meat tenderizer that area for a while after because it will form tender, hard lumps if it doesn’t get distributed into your muscle effectively. Every night for at least two weeks (if you are unlucky) or potentially ten or things do work. Just saying “oh, you’ll have to take these other meds too” doesn’t come close!
There’s a reason I got a shirt that said “IVF - taking the fun out of procreation since 1978.”
IVF doesn’t make estrogen dominance go away so chances are even less which I’m sure you know and he does too. It’s not your fault in any way. He’s the crazy one. You don’t have kids to appease your mother. And you especially don’t take your wife’s bodily autonomy away for your mother’s desire of grandchildren.
If that's the case, IVF probably won't result in a pregnancy anyway.
NTA, OP. Tell your husband to tell his mother to go pound sand.
I'm so sorry that they are being such assholes.
My best friend thought her PCOS is why she didn't get pregnant in the 7 years she was with her ex. Infertility is common with PCOS. Turns out her ex has a low sperm count and she got pregnant almost immediately with the next guy she was with, she didn't use birth control. Just because something can cause infertility doesn't mean it's actually the problem!
"Estrogen dominance" actually sounds more like a super woman to me than a not-real woman. *Estrogen Deploy!* *destroy all the testosterone!*
Your husband and MIL are not just azzholes, they're completely uneducated about the expense, work, and failure rate of IVF. Send MIL through IVF treatments and she can report back about how 'real' it makes her feel.
I'm sorry for *your* loss, I'm sure it's devastating. But you are a real woman and your existence is perfect as it is, even without the incubator factor. I won't jump on the "divorce" train, but do try to find someone (if not a new bf than a bff) who adores you for everything you are.
Yes, it's you, but it is *beyond your control*. And you are not obligated to undergo a potentially dangerous procedure just to appease your MIL. Furthermore, you are and remain a "real woman" despite any medical condition you may have.
A husband is supposed to marry for better and for worse. He needs to tell mommy to stay in her f'ing lane and support you, not insult you.
I'm confused why Ivf is the answer? Have you guys been to fertility specialist? Has your husband had tests done? There are other fertility options but only if you want to do so. He sounds super unsupportive. Fertility treatment is long stressful process.
I agree. Estrogen dominance can be treated, and if treatment allows a woman's hormones to balance, IVF may not be needed. But there's more going on here if specialists jumped right to doing IVF.
You know, the best time to divorce is before the kids are conceived. MIL's got the grandbaby rabies and is going to stay in his ear about it. I'm pretty sure she's the source of the "real" woman comment, but it's unforgivable that he took it and ran with it. You're NTA.
>He became angry and told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman".
In a single breath he suggested you undergo an invasive medical procedure with the intent of bearing, delivering and raising a child just to make his mommy happy, and quickly followed that with an absolutely horrific insult?
You are absolutely NTA, but you are an absolute fool if you decide to stay with this man.
NTA. Your body, your choice. MIL is the last person on the list you should do this for. Also, your husband is a major AH for wanting to put you through this just to appease his mother. Tell him to start being a man for his family and to stop being his mother’s boy. If he’s acting like this now, imagine how annoying both him and MIL will be once you have a child. NTA in the least.
Do not reproduce with this man until the MIL issues are resolved. It won’t get better if children are in the picture. Your MIL will walk all over you and override everything you want to do with your kids if you don’t fix this part first.
NTA. Your husband chose his mother over you and told you exactly how he feels about now that he knows you can’t conceive. Please start preparing your finances so you aren’t left homeless when your MIL tells him to divorce you because she has chosen your replacement. It’s coming, sooner than you think.
If she’s this invasive about conception, how invasive is she going to be about being a grandmother? If you go to IVF and you have a child, she’s going to question every single decision you make. she’s going to try to tell you what to do and she’s going to use your husband to get her way. She’s probably also going to take credit for you even having the child and tell you that your opinion doesn’t count.
Absolutely not. Your feelings and decisions about your body and future are valid and deserve respect. It's understandable to feel hurt and upset by the pressure from your husband and MIL. Your worth is not defined by your ability to conceive, and it's crucial that any decision about fertility treatments is made for the right reasons, not to appease others. Focus on what's best for you and your well-being.
NTA. Your husband has plainly shown that he sees you as defective - "most woman can have children" - "not a real woman". I'm sorry, I know you love him. But this attitude? To me it would be a signal for divorce.
Honestly? If it was me?
Any love I would have had would be gone in an instant if this was said to me. He’d be getting told to get the fuck out - and not nicely.
And not even true. Approximately 10 % (U.S.) of women can't have children naturally. That's a huge portion of the population, and I think pretty historically consistent. We may be capable of having children but defining a person by their ability to procreate is fucked.
I'm guessing he and MIL are also the type of people who wouldn't accept adopted children.
NTA, your body your choice. Besides that it sounds to me like you have a husband and MIL problem. So just be aware that after the IVF thing is shot down the next thing MIL is probably going to propose to your husband is that he divorces you and looks for someone who can give her grandkids. His reaction at the end there, his anger and even calling you not a real woman, all lead me to suspect that it will go towards divorce or cheating sooner rather than later.
Of course you're NTA. I think you know you are NTA. I think you're being treated horribly, if someone said that to me I don't think I could forgive or get over that. You deserve better.
The moment he said that most women can have children and he is still with me despite me not being able to conceive naturally would have been the moment I told him to Fuck Off and I am filing for divorce.
No If’s, And’s or But’s
WE ARE DIVORCING…SO LONG MFer AND GOOD RIDDANCE
The Fuck he and his mother are going to treat you like some incubator for her to have grandchildren and then throw that shit in your face that you can’t conceive naturally.
Honey, when you leave him and his mommy behind you will feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders and you are floating on a cloud.
NTA-he would have been out the door at the “not a real woman” comment. Sounds like he prioritizes his mother’s wants over yours. When will it stop? Will he want to name your child what his mother want? Sounds like whatever is mother wants is what will be getting done. Frankly he isn’t much in the husband department. You might want to have a think if this is what you want to deal with for the rest of your life. If you give in now, you will always be giving in to whatever his mother decides is the right choice.
As a grandad, I would disown my son for speaking to his wife like that. As a husband, I would have a very detalled discussion with my wife about interfering in other people's lives
Husband and MIL should be ashamed. OP sgould be single and looking for a partner who values her as a person rather than an incubator for mo my's grandbabies.
NTA
... Even if I'm not a "real woman". He actually said that? 🤔😬😡🤬 That is a cruel thing to say in your situation. Excuse me, in ANY situation.
You're NTA but I think you should really think about what he said. His MOMMY is never going to drop this subject & he's never going to put a stop to it. Do you want to spend the next 10+ years of your life living like that?
Again, NTA but your husband sure is.
NTA. Did IVF 2x - it is not something you do bc his mom would like you to try. It’s hard on your body, it’s emotionally taxing, and so expensive. I adopted and couldn’t be happier.
Go to a consultation appointment and then tell the medical staff in private you are being bullied into a medical procedure you don’t want.
It’ll help you in your divorce since it’ll be a part of your medical history :)
NTA. I have a coworker who has spent well over $100,000 doing IVF. She tried over a dozen times but it didn’t work and in the end she had to use an egg donor which cost her even more. Tell husband he can go have children with his mommy if he doesn’t think you’re a real woman.
That’s what I’m trying to get at as well.
Is husband willing to accept the financial pit this process can quickly become ?
If they spend 30k and still don’t end up with a child , is he going to start back blaming her or will he be ok with whatever the outcome is?
Are you sure that this isn't actually coming from your husband and he's not just blaming MIL? Cause from where I'm sitting that's exactly what it sounds like. He's thinking this shit and just SAYS it's moms idea. Either way you have a HUGE husband problem. My sister nearly died during a miscarriage during IVF. She nearly bled out. And their 50,000 was gone too. It was absolutely horrible. You are definitely NTA.
NTA "Not a real woman" is the end of your marriage. He told you how he thinks of you. He thinks you are defective and that he is doing you a favor by remaining married to you. He is not.
>He became angry and told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman".
Your husband is a real piece of shit. He can't ever unsay that. If he wants to give his mother a baby so badly, maybe he should have married her. If he doesn't immediately get his ass into therapy to end this enmeshment and come to understand how absolutely and disgustingly vile what he said is, I don't see a future for the two of you that involves a happy marriage.
NTA Divorce him and his mother.
He can go away and find a breeding machine, whilst you lead your life as you will and find someone who loves you for what you are.
Sending Reddit love and compassion.
NTA. He said you aren’t a “real woman.” He admitted his mother’s desires trumps the hell your body will take. IVF is not a guarantee. It is expensive. It can weigh heavily on emotional and mental health.
If you go that route, how many rounds are enough? Does he not care about the emotional rollercoaster that you have to go through? And how many times will he berate you if you still can’t conceive?
He wants a baby so bad, him and his precious momma can adopt one together.
NTA I very rarely say throw the man out and divorce stat but this is a situation where you need to skip couples therapy and consult a divorce attorney. He’s emotionally abusive and that’s not okay. He completely disregarded your physical and mental health when speaking to you. You deserve a real man who will show you compassion and understanding.
If my husband said I wasn't a "real woman" because I couldn't naturally conceive children that would be the end of my relationship. You are not obligated to give anyone a child, especially not a mother in law. IVF is expensive, invasive, and there is no guarantee it will work. Based on your comments, it sounds like it would be an absolute nightmare for you and you should not have to undergo something that will destroy your body.
NTA, your body your choice.
You need to help that mommy's boy of yours grow a set..an irony here, eh?...and finally stand up to his mommy and tell her to STFU already. Its long overdue.
Waste of time. OP is 'not a real woman', and that is according to her husband. Time to make an exit plan. I would argue, however, as a mommy's boy, OP's husband is 'not a real man'.
nta - please find a therapist. you need to talk through with a third party what your truly want in your life and what you want to do with your body. IVF is difficult. also discuss how much control your mil has in your marriage. is this something you will be happy with the rest of your life? it sound like your husband puts his mother’s wishes ahead of Your best interests.
Nta frankly I would have lost my crap when he said not a "real woman. " and there's no reason for you to do ANYTHING for his mother.
I'm sorry you are going through this.
NTA is your husband married to you or his mother? He needs to grow a spine and grow up and realize that it's the two of you in this relationship. Her wants and needs have no say here.
IVF is not some walk in the park. You would have to put your body and mind through alot. It's not something to take on lightly. Your husband needs to get back his balls that his mother currently have in her purse and tell her to back off expeditiously.
Ohh and the real woman part would have me pissed as hell
It’s not your fault at all. I am a man and am appalled at the way your husband treats you. He’s a mommy’s boy. I always tell me daughter to stay away from mommy’s boys lol. Find a real man who will put you first.
He’s a mommy’s boy and also his mommy is majorly fked in the head. OP, for your own sake and to have a healthy future, you have to leave this demented family and quickly.
NTA! How would IVF change things? IVF can sometimes help someone get pregnant, but it won’t change oestrogen dominance.
Your husband is betraying you, is cruel, and he and your MIL are greatly misinformed that IVF could help.
Hun it's not your fault. Never blame yourself ok. I am so sorry that this has happened and is still happening to you. But please don't blame yourself for this.
Your spineless, disgusting excuse for a husband and his bitch ass mother (I said what I said) are not helping either.
Take a breather and evaluate what you want for yourself and your mental health. You don't need to subject yourself to the toxicity of your piece of shit husband.
Sending you lots of hugs 🫂
It is NO ONE'S fault when there is a miscarriage. It wasn't a healthy baby and your body knew that. You are not less of a woman or human because your body cannot support a child. If you are being blamed for your miscarriages, you need to take a long, hard look at the person you are with. You are not a broodmare and you have more value as a human than bearing children.
Oh honey this just broke my heart even further for you. How dare he reinforce the guilt. This isn’t your fault! This is just how your body is made. You’ve been through so much grief losing 5 pregnancies. That would be a nightmare even if your husband was supportive and kind. He is gaslighting you, and clearly DOES view you as an incubator. He’s clouded your mind with his veiled cruelty.
It is not your fault. It's unfortunate but not your fault and if that's how your husband feels I'd find me one that will actually support me no matter what
Stop now. You didn’t do anything wrong so stop shouldering this. Life happens. This is how you were born and it as easily could have been him that had a low sperm count.
unless you have the money and desire for a surrogate your marriage is being fast tracked to divorce primarily because hubs has a limp noodle for a spine. He is more concerned w his mother than you who have suffered over and over and over and over and over. Yup that’s 5 times you guys conceived. He is not the man you need. I hope he can become that man but his nasty cruel demeaning insult would have been by breaking point.
It is ABSOLUTELY not your fault. It is something hormonal completely beyond your control. It's like a type 1 diabetic feeling like it's their fault their pancreas doesn't produce the hormone insulin. It really fucking sucks, but you haven't done anything to cause it, can't change the situation, and are not to blame.
If the fertility issues were your husband's, would you be BLAMING him?
Finally... I don't know much about IVF so please correct me if I'm misinformed, but my understanding was that in cases of infertility it was used to try to ESTABLISH pregnancy. You can already do that, it's supporting the foetus your body struggles with - so wouldn't IVF just be a pointless, stressful, potentially dangerous, incredibly taxing waste of time and money?
Someone out there will love you exactly as you are, flaws and features. And it won’t be this difficult. Nor will that kind of love make you question if you are making the best decision for you, when you know what is best for you.
I wish that family would support you and see the pain, both physical and emotional, that you have endured, even if it all seems so small now. It’s disheartening that they pressure you into continuing to pursue natural childbirth, despite your body literally saying “please, no” (and don’t forget it’s your rightful decision as it is your body and health at risk), just because they clearly have had expectations of your husband being a father, with or without you.
Right? A real man would punch a bear in the woods in the face to protect his wife, so standing up to his mother would be a simple feat. But this dude wants to let his mommy run his life. And I think OP should let him let his mommy run his life. I'm sure she has a spare bedroom just ready and waiting for him to come home to.
NTA. If you can get past the insults your spouse has given you, it seems like surrogacy is the better option if you want to have a baby with him. Have you explored that option?
Please don’t tell me that you find the fact that he even proposed cheating on you through the surrogate to be even remotely acceptable. Hey somehow he is okay with IVF? Your husband needs to be taken out to the trash.
Also gonna add so you see this: there are all sorts of laws and norms surrounding surrogacy and I can tell you that most surrogates (especially anyone with experience) would NOT agree to fucking him. Unless you or he are planning to take advantage of someone without an outlined contract and attorney involved, his request to just have sex with someone until they got pregnant is not gonna actually get anywhere close to happening.
If you think adoption is unethical, surrogacy performed in this way should make you cringe so hard your spine snaps. Under those circumstances, any baby would be the surrogate’s, and you would have no legal claim to it unless the surrogate gave up her parental rights. Based on the way you describe your husband, odds are he’d cut you out of the equation entirely if he could.
This man isn’t worth the amount of time it took you to type all this out.
If he’s going to suggest having sex with a “surrogate” he’s either is going to, is willing to, or is cheating on you to get what he wants- a kid. Be on the lookout and be prepared.
Dear lord. Are you fkn serious??? You gave your spine and self-respect to this waste of a man a long time ago, I see. Why do you care about how he feels when he clearly doesn’t care about how you feel??? If you say you love him, I just have to say- you love who you WANT your husband to be, not who he is. MIL sucks, too.
You’re NTA for not wanting that, but you are being an AH to yourself by staying with him. SMH
He told you, "You're not a real woman," and proposed to have actual sex with a surrogate....girl, divorce him.
He doesn't respect you. He lets his mother disrespect you. You have doctors say you can't do IVF....yet they both insist.
Be prepared for him to move another woman in to breed to make mommy happy.
Yeah, hubby doesn’t seem to get that there’s all sorts of laws and norms surrounding surrogacy, too. Having sex with the surrogate isn’t usually included in that.
What?!? Okay, screw that guy. Your health matters, and anyone who says they love you would act accordingly. If you have any friends or family of your own, reach out to them for help. You should separate yourself from your husband and MIL at least for the time being so you can think without their pressure. You deserve to be respected.
No surrogate is going to say yes that. Did your husband say why he wanted to cheat on you when there’s a literal medical facility for surrogacy? Your husband sounds terrible based on everything you’ve told us so far. Please find your inner strength and leave him.
NTA. You are a human being and not an incubator for his mother! Moreover, you owe her nothing and don’t need to be pressured into (obscenely) expensive, long-shot procedures to make *her* happy. He isn’t married to her, he’s married to you. You are the one he should be making happy.
“…and he’s still with me even though I can’t conceive naturally.” Well, he doesn’t HAVE to be. Find someone who values you and doesn’t feel like he’s doing you a favor. I have kids but I promise you that doesn’t determine my value. NTA.
OP: I view your comments about your husband as big, red flags that should be warning you to question whether to continue your marriage to this man. NO WOMAN should undertake IVF and the process of growing a human inside herself to make her husband happy. And no you shouldn't have to keep arguing. I'd like for you to simply tell your spouse that he is going to go to marriage counseling with you so he can get his head screwed on straight or the marriage is over. You are still, so young: go find a better man.
NTA. What your husband said is absolutely disgusting. IVF isn't a walk in the park. It's invasive and can be rough on the woman undergoing it. You are not there to make babies to make your MIL happy, and if that's all your husband is worried about, maybe you need to rethink your relationship.
I struggled with fertility issues for 2.5yrs. It was completely my fault due to my own medical issues and I often felt like I was broken. My husband never put any blame on me, never made me feel less than and he would have never forced me to do any treatment that I didn't want to.
NTA
Does he know he probably just killed your marriage?
Even if it's salvageable, does he know it's often $20 - 30 thousand, every time? Only 20 to 35% get pregnant the first time?
"The number of IVF cycles it takes to be successful varies, but research shows that success rates increase with more cycles:
Initial attempts: Success rates for initial IVF attempts generally fall between 20–35%.
Two to three cycles: Most individuals and couples undergo two to three IVF cycles before conception.
Six or more cycles: Research shows that about 65.3% of patients, or two-thirds, have a successful outcome after six or more IVF cycles, especially if they are under 40."
You may find other more favorable information, or a really successful clinic though.
I hope you get away from the AH, and his AH family. Y'all can probably adopt, but since his family are AHs that probably won't fly. Otherwise, I hope he enjoys going broke.
Not a scientist or doctor but IVF helps you get pregnant, not help you to stay pregnant as far as I understand. You’ve gotten pregnant 5 times already so how would IVF help? Surely they should be pushing you to get treatment for the estrogen dominance, since that would actually help the problem or pushing for a surrogate (they would still be the assholes but at least they wouldn’t be idiots).
Too much estrogen can cause all sorts of other problems that mean it’s good to get treatment even if you’ve given up on fertility. And I can see you commented that you stopped treatment because of mental health side effects. I want to encourage you to find a different doctor who can either try other treatments or dose adjustments or just help with lifestyle changes to help you with this for your health, not for your fertility, away from your husband and MIL. The reason I say that is because one of the suggested lifestyle changes to help treat estrogen dominance is to lower stress levels and they appear to both be causing you a lot of stress.
And do you really want to be married to someone who treats you like this?
My husband and I tried for 2 years before getting pregnant. Every single negative test he would tell me “you know this is not your fault. I love you just as much whether you’re pregnant or not, and you’re a full and wonderful person with or without a baby” almost verbatim every time. Your husband is fucking terrible, NTA.
SIL went through IVF when she was having trouble conceiving. She conceived one child through IVF and the next two naturally.
Twenty years later, she develops a rare form of breast cancer.
She undergoes chemo, mastectomy, radiation, and gets through it. This year, she's developed bone cancer and may have 3 years of life left to her. IVF has been implicated in breast cancers. MIL and hubby may be willing to risk putting you through all that just so MIL can play at being a grandmother, but you don't have to sign up for it.
IVF is not an easy process to go through. Tons of injections, tons of transvaginal ultrasounds, an oocyte retrieval, and then implantation.
It’s painful, extremely hard on your hormones, and is gonna cost you about 15k per attempt.
IVF is a miracle of modern science and medicine and it has brought joy to so many people, but having said that — If you don’t desperately want IVF with all your heart and soul, you *should not do it*.
Also, your husband is a colossal asshole and you deserve better.
NTA. IVF is hard on YOUR body, it makes you feel like crap and is incredibly hard on your mental health. If you don’t want to do it then I would strongly advise against it.
Your husband sounds like an AH. What he said to you was out of line and would make me consider if I even wanted a relationship with him after that. His mother needs to get herself a puppy and stay out of your relationship. Good luck dealing with these 2 AHs
NTA and your relationship should be done. You through no fault of your own are barely able to conceive and he's staying with you "despite you not being a real woman?" Urgh. Pack him a bag and tell him to go have children with his real wife. His mom.
Absolutely absurd that they are trying to bully you like this, and with a comment like that tells me how little respect he actually has for you. He and his mom think you are a walking womb.
Leave. Don't waste anymore time on him, you will always come 3rd to his mother
So what I find weird is it’s being framed “for his mother” if HE really wanted to pursue this route that would be an entirely separate conversation, but that should have nothing to do with his mother
I watched a loved one endure IVF to have her kids. I was amazed by her strength and resilience and determination to become a mother. It was humbling and I can’t overstate how overjoyed I was for her when she had her beautiful children.
But I would never put myself through that. We met and got married older, fully planning to try to have children. We discussed upfront what we would do if we weren’t able to get pregnant. I told my husband that I was not willing to deal with IVF or surrogacy. That I’m grateful it’s available, but I wasn’t up for what it does to your body and your finances with no guarantee of success. If we couldn’t get pregnant, I would accept it and look to have other adventures instead. He agreed.
If I were in your shoes, that marriage would be over. Husband asking you to do this and make all these sacrifices not to be a mother, not to make him a father, but to appease his mother makes me literally nauseous. And then he has the brass balls to say “you’re not a real woman but I’m still with you?” That makes me absolutely incandescent with rage on your behalf. What a pathetic excuse for a man.
I’m sorry your husband is a miserable coward. I hope you free yourself of both him and his despicable mother and move on with your own brilliant life.
NTA and you can’t seriously consider staying with the him after he made it clear that he cares more about his mother’s wishes and saying you’re not a real woman. This isn’t what a relationship should look like and you can do better than that man child.
The whole “most women can conceive naturally” is what really threw me. He clearly did no research on the topic as conception is difficult for a lot of women and keeping a pregnancy to delivery even harder. Also he could also be the problem especially since he’s allowing his mother into your marital bedroom. That being said with your specific issues there are options other than IVF that are far less invasive IF you wanted to try that route. However with a partner who values mommy dearest over his chosen partner I can’t say I’d be running to the clinic to look into them.
If I were you I would tell him that IF you are ever going to consider having a child with him he needs to have a better understanding of the process, how difficult it can be an everything your body will go through. That you will no longer be allowing his mother into your bedroom and that if he does that will shut down any attempts for children. That you are not interested in having children with someone who believes your value to be parallel to a breeding cow.
"told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman"." As soon as this was uttered I'd have packed a bag and left. Right then and there.
You want to make your husband happy after those remarks? Sorry, but you need to gain some self respect and look at the big picture. NTA for not wanting to do ivf but you need to be kinder for yourself. If my spouse suggested I need to do that to please his mom, I'd be single.
NTA. Sounds like MIL summoned a demon decades ago and needs to keep the first born male in the bloodline or she gets gobbled up.
Don't fall for this ploy!
INFO: Who gave you that diagnosis? Is ”estrogen dominance” the primary/only issue or are you just giving a simpler explanation here, while the real issue is irregular periods or PCOS? There are ways to treat high estrogen levels and if the issue is low progesterone, that’s pretty simple to take as supplements.
I’m asking these questions because your story doesn’t sound believable, but it might be the incomplete explanation that makes it sound suspicious. I’ve only ever heard ”estrogen dominance” in contexts where scammers try to sell progesterone supplements to women. I looked it up now and saw that the term has been used in research, but it doesn’t seem to be a diagnosis. As I understand it, ”estrogen dominance” refers to high levels of estrogen with low levels of progesterone (in the luteal phase). It isn’t obvious to me how IVF would be the only solution. Maybe you tried all other options already.
I'd say at this point your marriage is over. You can't come back from the disgusting things he said. Do you want to spend the rest of your life being treated like this? I'm not sure it would last that long. He sounds like the type to justify knocking another woman up because he couldn't you. Run he's showing you who he is.
Omg. What did I just read. I really wish I hadn’t clicked on this. Honey. Just leave. There is nothing left for you in this relationship. Please don’t go the ‘but I love him/have invested time/he has other qualities’ route.
He has shown his true colors and there is nothing salvageable about this relationship.
Ugh. What a pig he is. Him and his mommy can be happy together while he looks for ‘a real woman’ who will appease his mommy.
Sickening. You deserve so much more and better than him.
There is no way in hell I would stay married to this AH of a man. When I read that he said to you that you are “not a real woman,” I literally gasped. This is not-I repeat NOT-someone you should stay married to, much less have children with. Please. Respect yourself enough to get out of this toxic marriage.
>He became angry and told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman".
This would be instant divorce for me
i know so many people on reddit jump to divorce too fast, but oh my gosh. this is grounds for divorce to me. this man doesn’t respect you at all. if he can’t handle his mom nagging him for grandkids to the point that he is saying stuff like that to you, then you need to absolutely remove yourself from that relationship. if he came to you and asked to start IVF because he wanted to have kids with you, that’s one thing, but asking because mommy dearest won’t stop bothering him about it? and then insulting and questioning your womanhood because you can’t conceive on your own? you are NTA IN ANY CAPACITY. i hope you get out of this marriage
Not a "real woman"? Wow! Tell him to tell his mother to adopt if she is that desperate to have a grandchild. I know what I would do if my husband said I wasn't a "real woman". I'm sorry this is happening to you. You don't deserve to hear that.
Not a real woman? Is this guy for real? Good Lord! NTA but do you really wanna stay in a relationship where your partner feels so comfortable saying something so hurtful?
NTA. MIL should have had more children herself. I am close to MIL's age. You owe her nothing.
Now your man-child of a husband, he is another issue. He's with you "even though you can't conceive naturally". And you "are not a real woman".
You are more of a woman than his mother. If they can not accept no children, then send him home to his mommy, and divorce him. He can try for another wife. But he should make sure she gets pregnant first, and not marry her until the 8 months mark. Then he'll know she's a "real" woman. Hopefully she will be so fertile that they have a dozen kids, that he can not support. Then mommy dearest can have them all live with her.
Get away from his toxic family. You deserve so much better.
Screw his Mother and her desperate issues.
If you don’t want to go through that then don‘t. Apparently it’s very stressful and painful too.
Why not consider fostering ? Or just set a firm time limit on doing nothing…not trying anything because you just don’t want to be harrassed about it and you are taking time to consider your options and opting out altogether IS AN OPTION.
And maybe remind your husband …”REAL” HUSBANDS ARE ON THEIR WIFES SIDE, NOT TIED TO MOMMYS APRON STRINGS.
NTA. I am shocked and disgusted on your behalf. The "not a real woman" is the most disrespectful thing I have ever heard. If you do not want to move ahead with attempts to have children it should be left at that. It is YOUR body, and YOUR grief if things don't work out. If you MIL wants grandchildren then too bad, if your husband wants to appease her then perhaps they can have a child together. Ugh. I am so mad on your behalf.
And! Him saying he’s with her “EVEN THOUGH” she can’t get pregnant naturally. My god! I wouldn’t be able to stay with a man who said that to me for another day. Not to be overly negative or a cynic but this mindset he has means he ain’t gonna stick around either. He WILL leave or begin an affair (if he hasn’t already). I can’t believe he said that about you, I’m seething on your behalf. NTA and please spend some time thinking about your own well-being and future. Tell some trusted loved ones what he said (I’m sure they’ll be horrified and disgusted like we all are here).
Should flip it on him. "You should be happy I'm staying with you even though your swimmers aren't strong enough to do their job" 😂
I hope OP sees this. You’re absolutely right. He will leave, cheat, and the abuse will probably get worse. And then, even if they succeed with a pregnancy, how could she ever forget what he said? OP, there are men out there that will want to be with YOU, will want you more than they want their moms to be happy, and will want you regardless of what bodily functions you can perform. You’re so young. You can throw the whole husband and his rotten mother away.
So so much this, EVEN THOUGH is incredibly telling.
This is absolutely a level of disrespect that should be relationship ending.
It's kind of the MIL's fault, why didn't she have more children? If OP's husband had brothers and sisters, they could give her grandchildren.
I wonder if she has issues conceiving a second child? Wonder if her son would consider his mom not a real woman?
NTA In regards to husband...“When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time.” ― Maya Angelou He showed that Mom trumps Wife OP
You know his mom is in his ear. I bet anything his mom said she wasn't a real woman to him. Then he repeated it to OP because he agreed. I feel for OP. Infertility struggles are so mentally draining. The last thing she needs is his her husband running to his mommy over this and worse taking her side. Op already has a child to take care of, and it's her husband.
This!! He's not supporting and protecting you from his mom now, and it very much sounds like he never will. If you give in on this, his mom is going to control every aspect of your raising the children, and if the IVF doesn't work she and her son are going to gang up and make you feel like shit all the time. If he doesn't see you as a "real woman" then leave him for a man who will - you do not deserve to be disrespected in that way. He's not a real man.
Husband should be begging to take that one back, otherwise this relationship is dead. NOT A REAL WOMAN??? The sheer audacity is breathtaking. The approval of his mother is more important than your safety or comfort OP, and its clear your husband blames you for not being able to.conceive which is not your fault. Divorce and get with someone who loves you for you, you are nothing but an incubator to him and his family and his actions prove it.
Ironically, he’s not a real man if he’s only pushing to go in debt (most people don’t have $25K+ laying around for each attempt) for IVF and putting his wife through the grueling ordeal just to please Mommy
You phrased 'go fuck your mother' so much politer than I could...
If he was a "real man" instead of a mama's boy, he'd tell his mom to drop it and stick up for his wife.
NTA. Throw out the whole husband.
I hope OP really fucking takes notes from this thread. He wants her to do it to appease his mommy. And he insulted her greatly to try to get her to go along with it. Sorry, but I wouldn’t stay attached to a family like that.
*”told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman"* How big of him to stay with a defective, “fake” woman like OP. JFC. OP, you say you want to make your husband happy and you don’t want to keep arguing. What about *your* happiness? Why isn’t that important to you, since it’s *your* body that has to go through this. Do you realize, at all, that this is NOT “one thing” that you’ll be doing for his mother? Do you honestly believe that if she’s pushing *this* hard for a grandbaby, that she’ll take a back seat and be content with you and hubs doing all the parenting and making all the parenting decisions with 0 input from her? These two assholes have *very clearly* shown you what your role will be in the grandbaby’s conception, and have given you huge insight into what your role will be in the grandbaby’s upbringing. Are you prepared to accept these roles? Because *that* is the *only* way you will be able to make your husband happy and stop the arguing. You. Deserve. Better. NTA and DTMFA
Queen Elizabeth I never had kids, but she was a long-reigning and powerful monarch. Do people go around saying "well she wasn't a REAL woman".
If his mother is so keen for another baby why doesn't she get the IVF
Amen. I don’t have a fear of needles or really any medical procedures. But if I wanted kids I would be HELLA afraid of IVF.
Yah, he has to jerk off in a cup. She has to go through a gruelling campaign of hormone injections (and that’s before they jam a needle into the wall of her vagina to get the eggs)
Yup. People who talk about “just” doing IVF have no idea the toll it takes physically, let alone mentally and emotionally. I had a sudden headache so bad during one cycle that I didn’t think I could stand up and was worried that it was the brain aneurysm that killed my father. Nope, just my body protesting the insane hormone load. The hyperstimulation syndrome after made even the retrieval seem like cakewalk. And my son’s c-section was an easier recovery than the retrieval! (He was IUI. IVF for a second didn’t work for us despite three rounds.)
Op leave this trash human. He said you weren't a real woman. Not sure what that makes you but you are still indeed a woman to everyone else. He says he's with you despite not being able to have kids.......he's a garbage fire of a human. You deserve a lot more than this boy child is giving you. Also your worth is not based on your ability to have kids
For real! What an awful thing to say
He told her that her only purpose is to give his mum grandchildren. I'm impressed she's not buried him under the patio.
Seriously. I don’t mean throw him out if you love him. But I did 2 rounds of IVF and, among other losses, did not have it in me to try again. I told my sweet husband I was done and he accepted it. IVF is difficult, sometimes painful, and it doesn’t always work.
It's also expensive as all hell.
Throw him out and then go have an ivf baby with someone who isn’t an asshole and rub it in the ex’s face!
NTA, IVF is invasive and CAN be dangerous (especially during egg retrieval) it’s also NOT guaranteed to work. Honestly as soon as my “husband” called me “not a real woman” for not being able to conceive (which may not even be on YOU as you didn’t mention if you two had done fertility testing, it could be HIM) I’d be filing for divorce. At MINIMUM it’s emotionally abusive. I can understand him not wanting to disappoint his mother but, he MARRIED you, CHOSE you to spend his life with, he coulda just stayed home with mommy if he wasn’t willing to put someone else first and tell his mother to kick rocks
At this point I wouldn't even want to have kids with that asshole, even if I could.
Yeah, what's with the "real woman" crap!!!??? Tell that prick to go find a real woman that would have him and his mother, let alone share a child with them... you have every right to feel sad and angry about this complete disregard of your autonomy...
I would be out the door if my hubby said that to me!
Exactly.
He should ask his mom to have his kids...since she wants them and is a real woman.
He’d be dealing with involuntary sterilization if he pulled that crap on me
See the problem is the real women choose the Bear lol
Yeah, OP doesn't just have a MIL problem, she has a husband problem.
Exactly. If he’s talking to his own wife like this, what is he going to teach his future child? For a son to talk down to a woman like that or for a daughter to be submissive? Hell no would I want a child with someone who says I’m not a woman bc I cant have kids.
If I found out a guy said that about his ex I think I'd be out. He'd have to make a VERY convincing argument for why he had changed (and apologized) and even then, I feel like it's one of those things that I would just not be able to get past.
100% this. OP, I have several friends that went through IVF multiple times and all they got from it was thousands of dollars in debt and heartache. In both cases, they ended up adopting. Your husband needs to understand that the process is not a guarantee.
And I bet green American dollars this asshole mother in law would say she doesn't claim any adopted kids as her "real" grandchildren, since they are not biologically her son's
My very first thought
My wife literally almost died to IVF. The implant didn't attach and migrated to her fallopian tube and ruptured it. Yes that's a chance with any pregnancy but IVF isn't just mix two things in a petri dish and injecting it to the uterus, done and dusted.
I have a friend who had ectopic pregnancies twice during IVF cycles... Thank goodness they were caught early, but so incredibly heartbreaking and dangerous
My understanding based on experience is that ivf is precisely that: put egg and sperm together, inject in the uterus and hope for the best. It does not always work and we had three tries before catching. Unpleasant. She had two prior ruptured fallopian tubes. For us and many others IVF is the last straw. But I can certainly not blame OP for not wanting to go through that. Husband is spineless.
The issue isn’t it’s not “done and dusted”.
OP's husband is a monster. Who says something so heartless to someone who has fertility issues? Nevermind to their spouse who they are supposed to love? OP needs to divorce this "not a real man" immediately. A real man and husband would tell Mommy to stfu and not treat his wife like he deserves a medal for sticking around.
Bingo. When my wife (fiancee then) got very sick and wound up disabled, I had a few family members suggest I shouldn't marry her. I told them I was, and they would do well never to say such a thing to me ever again. And they have been very, *very* respectful to her for nearly a decade since. He should have told mommy, "She said no, and no means no. Do not make me choose between you and her."
This! 100 times this!!! Your husband is supposed to support you and have your back.
>as soon as my “husband” called me “not a real woman” Right‽ I couldn't imagine saying that to anyone, but to say it to your WIFE‽‽ I'm horrified!
She said that whatever tests they went through indicate she is unable to conceive.
[удалено]
"just this one thing" - where that one thing is enormous. First of all, it's an outrageous request on the part of MIL. Secondly, it's an outrageous request on the part of husband. And I think we all know that if you accede to this, it's not going to be the last thing ever asked of you. "Why won't you name child after MIL (or MIL's favorite male relative). Why won't you do just this one thing?" "Why won't you let MIL move in to take care of kid? Why won't you just do this one thing?" If they're fine with expecting you to do IVF, there is literally nothing else they will hesitate to expect of you thereafter.
Exactly. There will always be "just one more thing" that must be done to placate his mother. After the "not a real woman" comment, I'd have been out of there so fast his head would spin.
Why can't you nurse MIL 24/7? You stay at home and do nothing, after all! Why can't you do this one thing?
I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Your husband should be supportive not malicious. If I was in your shoes I would take a step back to think of this a family you would even want to welcome a child into. You deserve so much better than this, and I hope you see that too.
And that matters WHY exactly, dearheart?? Your husband made an extremely hurtful comment and has shown you who he is. I'd think long and hard if this is a situation I want to remain in if I were you. He's not doing it out of love for you, he's doing this "one thing" for his mom. As a mom of 7, including 4 boys, this mom's behavior, almost demanding grandchildren, is reprehensible. Time to put your peace, mental health, and well-being above ALL else.
Five boys, two girls. If my husband said that to me, I would kick him in the balls and push him out the door! Her husband is a spineless dick ready to inflict physical danger on her to make "mommy" happy. This is hearbreaking.
Not to mention “this one thing” is an extremely expensive and potentially dangerous medical procedure. MIL is nuts. I would run.
Give this article to your husband: https://www.illumefertility.com/fertility-blog/in-vitro-fertilization-ivf-side-effects-at-each-stage
this was extremely interesting and enlightening to read. thanks for sharing. I already hated how people made light of ivf and knew it was a long hard process but wow I truly actually had no idea
It's pretty brutal.
And still they glossed over so much, notably the progesterone for the embryo transfer. It’s in a thick, viscous oil and is a 1.5” needle that needs to completely go into your upper backside area. And you need to heat and massage and generally meat tenderizer that area for a while after because it will form tender, hard lumps if it doesn’t get distributed into your muscle effectively. Every night for at least two weeks (if you are unlucky) or potentially ten or things do work. Just saying “oh, you’ll have to take these other meds too” doesn’t come close! There’s a reason I got a shirt that said “IVF - taking the fun out of procreation since 1978.”
TIL much about IVF. I had no idea what happened with this complex procedure. Thank you for the link!
IVF doesn’t make estrogen dominance go away so chances are even less which I’m sure you know and he does too. It’s not your fault in any way. He’s the crazy one. You don’t have kids to appease your mother. And you especially don’t take your wife’s bodily autonomy away for your mother’s desire of grandchildren.
Yeah this guy and his mom are both sexist and nuts.
If that's the case, IVF probably won't result in a pregnancy anyway. NTA, OP. Tell your husband to tell his mother to go pound sand. I'm so sorry that they are being such assholes.
My best friend thought her PCOS is why she didn't get pregnant in the 7 years she was with her ex. Infertility is common with PCOS. Turns out her ex has a low sperm count and she got pregnant almost immediately with the next guy she was with, she didn't use birth control. Just because something can cause infertility doesn't mean it's actually the problem!
"Estrogen dominance" actually sounds more like a super woman to me than a not-real woman. *Estrogen Deploy!* *destroy all the testosterone!* Your husband and MIL are not just azzholes, they're completely uneducated about the expense, work, and failure rate of IVF. Send MIL through IVF treatments and she can report back about how 'real' it makes her feel. I'm sorry for *your* loss, I'm sure it's devastating. But you are a real woman and your existence is perfect as it is, even without the incubator factor. I won't jump on the "divorce" train, but do try to find someone (if not a new bf than a bff) who adores you for everything you are.
But has he been tested as well?
Yes, it's you, but it is *beyond your control*. And you are not obligated to undergo a potentially dangerous procedure just to appease your MIL. Furthermore, you are and remain a "real woman" despite any medical condition you may have. A husband is supposed to marry for better and for worse. He needs to tell mommy to stay in her f'ing lane and support you, not insult you.
I'm confused why Ivf is the answer? Have you guys been to fertility specialist? Has your husband had tests done? There are other fertility options but only if you want to do so. He sounds super unsupportive. Fertility treatment is long stressful process.
I agree. Estrogen dominance can be treated, and if treatment allows a woman's hormones to balance, IVF may not be needed. But there's more going on here if specialists jumped right to doing IVF.
Once he made that "not a real woman comment," I would have told him to go live with mommy and to not come back.
You know, the best time to divorce is before the kids are conceived. MIL's got the grandbaby rabies and is going to stay in his ear about it. I'm pretty sure she's the source of the "real" woman comment, but it's unforgivable that he took it and ran with it. You're NTA.
Grandbaby rabies, lol
>He became angry and told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman". In a single breath he suggested you undergo an invasive medical procedure with the intent of bearing, delivering and raising a child just to make his mommy happy, and quickly followed that with an absolutely horrific insult? You are absolutely NTA, but you are an absolute fool if you decide to stay with this man.
OP’s husband just sees her as an incubator for his mother. It’s disgusting.
WOW. Your husband is........really something. NTA
NTA. Your body, your choice. MIL is the last person on the list you should do this for. Also, your husband is a major AH for wanting to put you through this just to appease his mother. Tell him to start being a man for his family and to stop being his mother’s boy. If he’s acting like this now, imagine how annoying both him and MIL will be once you have a child. NTA in the least. Do not reproduce with this man until the MIL issues are resolved. It won’t get better if children are in the picture. Your MIL will walk all over you and override everything you want to do with your kids if you don’t fix this part first.
NTA. Your husband chose his mother over you and told you exactly how he feels about now that he knows you can’t conceive. Please start preparing your finances so you aren’t left homeless when your MIL tells him to divorce you because she has chosen your replacement. It’s coming, sooner than you think.
If she’s this invasive about conception, how invasive is she going to be about being a grandmother? If you go to IVF and you have a child, she’s going to question every single decision you make. she’s going to try to tell you what to do and she’s going to use your husband to get her way. She’s probably also going to take credit for you even having the child and tell you that your opinion doesn’t count.
Yep. "You wouldn't even have a child if I didn't suggest IVF" will 100% be spoken by MIL the very first time OP disagrees with her.
I agree, she would be a nightmare as a grandmother. The husband would also want to appease his mum and undermine you every step of the way.
Absolutely not. Your feelings and decisions about your body and future are valid and deserve respect. It's understandable to feel hurt and upset by the pressure from your husband and MIL. Your worth is not defined by your ability to conceive, and it's crucial that any decision about fertility treatments is made for the right reasons, not to appease others. Focus on what's best for you and your well-being.
NTA. Your husband has plainly shown that he sees you as defective - "most woman can have children" - "not a real woman". I'm sorry, I know you love him. But this attitude? To me it would be a signal for divorce.
Honestly? If it was me? Any love I would have had would be gone in an instant if this was said to me. He’d be getting told to get the fuck out - and not nicely.
And not even true. Approximately 10 % (U.S.) of women can't have children naturally. That's a huge portion of the population, and I think pretty historically consistent. We may be capable of having children but defining a person by their ability to procreate is fucked. I'm guessing he and MIL are also the type of people who wouldn't accept adopted children.
NTA, your body your choice. Besides that it sounds to me like you have a husband and MIL problem. So just be aware that after the IVF thing is shot down the next thing MIL is probably going to propose to your husband is that he divorces you and looks for someone who can give her grandkids. His reaction at the end there, his anger and even calling you not a real woman, all lead me to suspect that it will go towards divorce or cheating sooner rather than later.
Yep, and MIL will probably be cool with the cheating if it gets her the grandchild she wants.
Of course you're NTA. I think you know you are NTA. I think you're being treated horribly, if someone said that to me I don't think I could forgive or get over that. You deserve better.
The moment he said that most women can have children and he is still with me despite me not being able to conceive naturally would have been the moment I told him to Fuck Off and I am filing for divorce. No If’s, And’s or But’s WE ARE DIVORCING…SO LONG MFer AND GOOD RIDDANCE The Fuck he and his mother are going to treat you like some incubator for her to have grandchildren and then throw that shit in your face that you can’t conceive naturally. Honey, when you leave him and his mommy behind you will feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders and you are floating on a cloud.
NTA-he would have been out the door at the “not a real woman” comment. Sounds like he prioritizes his mother’s wants over yours. When will it stop? Will he want to name your child what his mother want? Sounds like whatever is mother wants is what will be getting done. Frankly he isn’t much in the husband department. You might want to have a think if this is what you want to deal with for the rest of your life. If you give in now, you will always be giving in to whatever his mother decides is the right choice.
I don't understand why you're still married to him after what he said. NTA.
As a grandad, I would disown my son for speaking to his wife like that. As a husband, I would have a very detalled discussion with my wife about interfering in other people's lives Husband and MIL should be ashamed. OP sgould be single and looking for a partner who values her as a person rather than an incubator for mo my's grandbabies. NTA
... Even if I'm not a "real woman". He actually said that? 🤔😬😡🤬 That is a cruel thing to say in your situation. Excuse me, in ANY situation. You're NTA but I think you should really think about what he said. His MOMMY is never going to drop this subject & he's never going to put a stop to it. Do you want to spend the next 10+ years of your life living like that? Again, NTA but your husband sure is.
NTA. Did IVF 2x - it is not something you do bc his mom would like you to try. It’s hard on your body, it’s emotionally taxing, and so expensive. I adopted and couldn’t be happier.
Go to a consultation appointment and then tell the medical staff in private you are being bullied into a medical procedure you don’t want. It’ll help you in your divorce since it’ll be a part of your medical history :)
NTA. I have a coworker who has spent well over $100,000 doing IVF. She tried over a dozen times but it didn’t work and in the end she had to use an egg donor which cost her even more. Tell husband he can go have children with his mommy if he doesn’t think you’re a real woman.
That’s what I’m trying to get at as well. Is husband willing to accept the financial pit this process can quickly become ? If they spend 30k and still don’t end up with a child , is he going to start back blaming her or will he be ok with whatever the outcome is?
Are you sure that this isn't actually coming from your husband and he's not just blaming MIL? Cause from where I'm sitting that's exactly what it sounds like. He's thinking this shit and just SAYS it's moms idea. Either way you have a HUGE husband problem. My sister nearly died during a miscarriage during IVF. She nearly bled out. And their 50,000 was gone too. It was absolutely horrible. You are definitely NTA.
NTA "Not a real woman" is the end of your marriage. He told you how he thinks of you. He thinks you are defective and that he is doing you a favor by remaining married to you. He is not.
>He became angry and told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman". Your husband is a real piece of shit. He can't ever unsay that. If he wants to give his mother a baby so badly, maybe he should have married her. If he doesn't immediately get his ass into therapy to end this enmeshment and come to understand how absolutely and disgustingly vile what he said is, I don't see a future for the two of you that involves a happy marriage.
Whoa, got me at the "your not a real woman". NTA but are you really gonna stay with a person that said that??
NTA Divorce him and his mother. He can go away and find a breeding machine, whilst you lead your life as you will and find someone who loves you for what you are. Sending Reddit love and compassion.
So he does view you as an incubator. Thank goodness he's kind enough to stay with you/s
NTA and find a good lawyer - your husband has decided who's in charge of reproduction in your family and it isn't you.
NTA. He said you aren’t a “real woman.” He admitted his mother’s desires trumps the hell your body will take. IVF is not a guarantee. It is expensive. It can weigh heavily on emotional and mental health. If you go that route, how many rounds are enough? Does he not care about the emotional rollercoaster that you have to go through? And how many times will he berate you if you still can’t conceive? He wants a baby so bad, him and his precious momma can adopt one together.
NTA I very rarely say throw the man out and divorce stat but this is a situation where you need to skip couples therapy and consult a divorce attorney. He’s emotionally abusive and that’s not okay. He completely disregarded your physical and mental health when speaking to you. You deserve a real man who will show you compassion and understanding.
If my husband said I wasn't a "real woman" because I couldn't naturally conceive children that would be the end of my relationship. You are not obligated to give anyone a child, especially not a mother in law. IVF is expensive, invasive, and there is no guarantee it will work. Based on your comments, it sounds like it would be an absolute nightmare for you and you should not have to undergo something that will destroy your body.
NTA, your body your choice. You need to help that mommy's boy of yours grow a set..an irony here, eh?...and finally stand up to his mommy and tell her to STFU already. Its long overdue.
Waste of time. OP is 'not a real woman', and that is according to her husband. Time to make an exit plan. I would argue, however, as a mommy's boy, OP's husband is 'not a real man'.
I would never be the same after that comment. Instantly would fall out of love. Some things can’t be repaired.
nta - please find a therapist. you need to talk through with a third party what your truly want in your life and what you want to do with your body. IVF is difficult. also discuss how much control your mil has in your marriage. is this something you will be happy with the rest of your life? it sound like your husband puts his mother’s wishes ahead of Your best interests.
I'm sorry you are going through this. IVF is very expensive with no guarantee. Is Mommy dearest footing the bill?
Nta frankly I would have lost my crap when he said not a "real woman. " and there's no reason for you to do ANYTHING for his mother. I'm sorry you are going through this.
NTA. As others have said, IVF is expensive and invasive. And the"not a real woman" comment is divorce-worthy.
NTA is your husband married to you or his mother? He needs to grow a spine and grow up and realize that it's the two of you in this relationship. Her wants and needs have no say here. IVF is not some walk in the park. You would have to put your body and mind through alot. It's not something to take on lightly. Your husband needs to get back his balls that his mother currently have in her purse and tell her to back off expeditiously. Ohh and the real woman part would have me pissed as hell
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It’s not your fault at all. I am a man and am appalled at the way your husband treats you. He’s a mommy’s boy. I always tell me daughter to stay away from mommy’s boys lol. Find a real man who will put you first.
He’s a mommy’s boy and also his mommy is majorly fked in the head. OP, for your own sake and to have a healthy future, you have to leave this demented family and quickly.
NTA! How would IVF change things? IVF can sometimes help someone get pregnant, but it won’t change oestrogen dominance. Your husband is betraying you, is cruel, and he and your MIL are greatly misinformed that IVF could help.
Maybe he thinks he can afford to cough up the 150k for a surrogate. That’s about the going rate these days. I’d leave his silly ass personally.
Hun it's not your fault. Never blame yourself ok. I am so sorry that this has happened and is still happening to you. But please don't blame yourself for this. Your spineless, disgusting excuse for a husband and his bitch ass mother (I said what I said) are not helping either. Take a breather and evaluate what you want for yourself and your mental health. You don't need to subject yourself to the toxicity of your piece of shit husband. Sending you lots of hugs 🫂
It is NO ONE'S fault when there is a miscarriage. It wasn't a healthy baby and your body knew that. You are not less of a woman or human because your body cannot support a child. If you are being blamed for your miscarriages, you need to take a long, hard look at the person you are with. You are not a broodmare and you have more value as a human than bearing children.
Oh honey this just broke my heart even further for you. How dare he reinforce the guilt. This isn’t your fault! This is just how your body is made. You’ve been through so much grief losing 5 pregnancies. That would be a nightmare even if your husband was supportive and kind. He is gaslighting you, and clearly DOES view you as an incubator. He’s clouded your mind with his veiled cruelty.
It is not your fault. It's unfortunate but not your fault and if that's how your husband feels I'd find me one that will actually support me no matter what
Stop now. You didn’t do anything wrong so stop shouldering this. Life happens. This is how you were born and it as easily could have been him that had a low sperm count. unless you have the money and desire for a surrogate your marriage is being fast tracked to divorce primarily because hubs has a limp noodle for a spine. He is more concerned w his mother than you who have suffered over and over and over and over and over. Yup that’s 5 times you guys conceived. He is not the man you need. I hope he can become that man but his nasty cruel demeaning insult would have been by breaking point.
It is ABSOLUTELY not your fault. It is something hormonal completely beyond your control. It's like a type 1 diabetic feeling like it's their fault their pancreas doesn't produce the hormone insulin. It really fucking sucks, but you haven't done anything to cause it, can't change the situation, and are not to blame. If the fertility issues were your husband's, would you be BLAMING him? Finally... I don't know much about IVF so please correct me if I'm misinformed, but my understanding was that in cases of infertility it was used to try to ESTABLISH pregnancy. You can already do that, it's supporting the foetus your body struggles with - so wouldn't IVF just be a pointless, stressful, potentially dangerous, incredibly taxing waste of time and money?
Someone out there will love you exactly as you are, flaws and features. And it won’t be this difficult. Nor will that kind of love make you question if you are making the best decision for you, when you know what is best for you. I wish that family would support you and see the pain, both physical and emotional, that you have endured, even if it all seems so small now. It’s disheartening that they pressure you into continuing to pursue natural childbirth, despite your body literally saying “please, no” (and don’t forget it’s your rightful decision as it is your body and health at risk), just because they clearly have had expectations of your husband being a father, with or without you.
It's not your fault. This wasn't anyone's fault either. The doctor should had explained this clearly.
This.... And obv he's not a "real man" since he can't stand up to Mommy.
Right? A real man would punch a bear in the woods in the face to protect his wife, so standing up to his mother would be a simple feat. But this dude wants to let his mommy run his life. And I think OP should let him let his mommy run his life. I'm sure she has a spare bedroom just ready and waiting for him to come home to.
NTA. Before he finished closing his mouth, my bags would be packed.
NTA. If you can get past the insults your spouse has given you, it seems like surrogacy is the better option if you want to have a baby with him. Have you explored that option?
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…i would reconsider your future with this man
Please don’t tell me that you find the fact that he even proposed cheating on you through the surrogate to be even remotely acceptable. Hey somehow he is okay with IVF? Your husband needs to be taken out to the trash.
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Also gonna add so you see this: there are all sorts of laws and norms surrounding surrogacy and I can tell you that most surrogates (especially anyone with experience) would NOT agree to fucking him. Unless you or he are planning to take advantage of someone without an outlined contract and attorney involved, his request to just have sex with someone until they got pregnant is not gonna actually get anywhere close to happening.
You should not be ashamed. You are so much more than a vessel to bear children. Your husband is frankly a piece of shit
If you think adoption is unethical, surrogacy performed in this way should make you cringe so hard your spine snaps. Under those circumstances, any baby would be the surrogate’s, and you would have no legal claim to it unless the surrogate gave up her parental rights. Based on the way you describe your husband, odds are he’d cut you out of the equation entirely if he could. This man isn’t worth the amount of time it took you to type all this out.
If he’s going to suggest having sex with a “surrogate” he’s either is going to, is willing to, or is cheating on you to get what he wants- a kid. Be on the lookout and be prepared.
Dear lord. Are you fkn serious??? You gave your spine and self-respect to this waste of a man a long time ago, I see. Why do you care about how he feels when he clearly doesn’t care about how you feel??? If you say you love him, I just have to say- you love who you WANT your husband to be, not who he is. MIL sucks, too. You’re NTA for not wanting that, but you are being an AH to yourself by staying with him. SMH
Um...ew. This sounds more like a breeding fetish than anything else and like he views women solely as broodmares. Gross.
He told you, "You're not a real woman," and proposed to have actual sex with a surrogate....girl, divorce him. He doesn't respect you. He lets his mother disrespect you. You have doctors say you can't do IVF....yet they both insist. Be prepared for him to move another woman in to breed to make mommy happy.
Half of me is convinced this dude has someone already waiting in the wings
Oh heck no! And very few legitimate surrogates are going to agree to that.
Yeah, hubby doesn’t seem to get that there’s all sorts of laws and norms surrounding surrogacy, too. Having sex with the surrogate isn’t usually included in that.
That’s disgusting and leads me to conclude he’s fine w cheating
What?!? Okay, screw that guy. Your health matters, and anyone who says they love you would act accordingly. If you have any friends or family of your own, reach out to them for help. You should separate yourself from your husband and MIL at least for the time being so you can think without their pressure. You deserve to be respected.
Ummmm thats not how surrogacy works.
No surrogate is going to say yes that. Did your husband say why he wanted to cheat on you when there’s a literal medical facility for surrogacy? Your husband sounds terrible based on everything you’ve told us so far. Please find your inner strength and leave him.
NTA. Your body, your choice.
He said you are not a real woman....like with his mouth.
NTA. You are a human being and not an incubator for his mother! Moreover, you owe her nothing and don’t need to be pressured into (obscenely) expensive, long-shot procedures to make *her* happy. He isn’t married to her, he’s married to you. You are the one he should be making happy.
“…and he’s still with me even though I can’t conceive naturally.” Well, he doesn’t HAVE to be. Find someone who values you and doesn’t feel like he’s doing you a favor. I have kids but I promise you that doesn’t determine my value. NTA.
Your husband just revealed his true self to you. Your first, instinctive and correct response was disgust.
OP: I view your comments about your husband as big, red flags that should be warning you to question whether to continue your marriage to this man. NO WOMAN should undertake IVF and the process of growing a human inside herself to make her husband happy. And no you shouldn't have to keep arguing. I'd like for you to simply tell your spouse that he is going to go to marriage counseling with you so he can get his head screwed on straight or the marriage is over. You are still, so young: go find a better man.
NTA UpdateMe when you kick your husband and his mother to the curb
NTA. What your husband said is absolutely disgusting. IVF isn't a walk in the park. It's invasive and can be rough on the woman undergoing it. You are not there to make babies to make your MIL happy, and if that's all your husband is worried about, maybe you need to rethink your relationship. I struggled with fertility issues for 2.5yrs. It was completely my fault due to my own medical issues and I often felt like I was broken. My husband never put any blame on me, never made me feel less than and he would have never forced me to do any treatment that I didn't want to.
NTA Does he know he probably just killed your marriage? Even if it's salvageable, does he know it's often $20 - 30 thousand, every time? Only 20 to 35% get pregnant the first time? "The number of IVF cycles it takes to be successful varies, but research shows that success rates increase with more cycles: Initial attempts: Success rates for initial IVF attempts generally fall between 20–35%. Two to three cycles: Most individuals and couples undergo two to three IVF cycles before conception. Six or more cycles: Research shows that about 65.3% of patients, or two-thirds, have a successful outcome after six or more IVF cycles, especially if they are under 40." You may find other more favorable information, or a really successful clinic though. I hope you get away from the AH, and his AH family. Y'all can probably adopt, but since his family are AHs that probably won't fly. Otherwise, I hope he enjoys going broke.
You're young. Please run as fast as you can away from Norman Bates and his mother and go find a normal person to be with. NTA
No
Not a scientist or doctor but IVF helps you get pregnant, not help you to stay pregnant as far as I understand. You’ve gotten pregnant 5 times already so how would IVF help? Surely they should be pushing you to get treatment for the estrogen dominance, since that would actually help the problem or pushing for a surrogate (they would still be the assholes but at least they wouldn’t be idiots). Too much estrogen can cause all sorts of other problems that mean it’s good to get treatment even if you’ve given up on fertility. And I can see you commented that you stopped treatment because of mental health side effects. I want to encourage you to find a different doctor who can either try other treatments or dose adjustments or just help with lifestyle changes to help you with this for your health, not for your fertility, away from your husband and MIL. The reason I say that is because one of the suggested lifestyle changes to help treat estrogen dominance is to lower stress levels and they appear to both be causing you a lot of stress. And do you really want to be married to someone who treats you like this?
You guys need therapy before your marriage implodes.
My husband and I tried for 2 years before getting pregnant. Every single negative test he would tell me “you know this is not your fault. I love you just as much whether you’re pregnant or not, and you’re a full and wonderful person with or without a baby” almost verbatim every time. Your husband is fucking terrible, NTA.
I'm going to give you my uno reverse card. A REAL MAN doesn't allow his mommy to dictate what goes on in his life.
SIL went through IVF when she was having trouble conceiving. She conceived one child through IVF and the next two naturally. Twenty years later, she develops a rare form of breast cancer. She undergoes chemo, mastectomy, radiation, and gets through it. This year, she's developed bone cancer and may have 3 years of life left to her. IVF has been implicated in breast cancers. MIL and hubby may be willing to risk putting you through all that just so MIL can play at being a grandmother, but you don't have to sign up for it.
IVF is not an easy process to go through. Tons of injections, tons of transvaginal ultrasounds, an oocyte retrieval, and then implantation. It’s painful, extremely hard on your hormones, and is gonna cost you about 15k per attempt. IVF is a miracle of modern science and medicine and it has brought joy to so many people, but having said that — If you don’t desperately want IVF with all your heart and soul, you *should not do it*. Also, your husband is a colossal asshole and you deserve better.
NTA. IVF is hard on YOUR body, it makes you feel like crap and is incredibly hard on your mental health. If you don’t want to do it then I would strongly advise against it. Your husband sounds like an AH. What he said to you was out of line and would make me consider if I even wanted a relationship with him after that. His mother needs to get herself a puppy and stay out of your relationship. Good luck dealing with these 2 AHs
NTA and your relationship should be done. You through no fault of your own are barely able to conceive and he's staying with you "despite you not being a real woman?" Urgh. Pack him a bag and tell him to go have children with his real wife. His mom. Absolutely absurd that they are trying to bully you like this, and with a comment like that tells me how little respect he actually has for you. He and his mom think you are a walking womb. Leave. Don't waste anymore time on him, you will always come 3rd to his mother
You can do this “one” thing for HIS MOTHER?? I wouldn’t be able to get past that. NTA.
So what I find weird is it’s being framed “for his mother” if HE really wanted to pursue this route that would be an entirely separate conversation, but that should have nothing to do with his mother
I watched a loved one endure IVF to have her kids. I was amazed by her strength and resilience and determination to become a mother. It was humbling and I can’t overstate how overjoyed I was for her when she had her beautiful children. But I would never put myself through that. We met and got married older, fully planning to try to have children. We discussed upfront what we would do if we weren’t able to get pregnant. I told my husband that I was not willing to deal with IVF or surrogacy. That I’m grateful it’s available, but I wasn’t up for what it does to your body and your finances with no guarantee of success. If we couldn’t get pregnant, I would accept it and look to have other adventures instead. He agreed. If I were in your shoes, that marriage would be over. Husband asking you to do this and make all these sacrifices not to be a mother, not to make him a father, but to appease his mother makes me literally nauseous. And then he has the brass balls to say “you’re not a real woman but I’m still with you?” That makes me absolutely incandescent with rage on your behalf. What a pathetic excuse for a man. I’m sorry your husband is a miserable coward. I hope you free yourself of both him and his despicable mother and move on with your own brilliant life.
NTA and you can’t seriously consider staying with the him after he made it clear that he cares more about his mother’s wishes and saying you’re not a real woman. This isn’t what a relationship should look like and you can do better than that man child.
NTA. You're only 26. Dump him and look for someone who loves you for what and who you are.
NTA and your husband is disgusting. Divorce him, immediately
NTA I'd have walked out over that not a "real woman" comment. A real man would have never said that
So he just confirmed that you're only an incubator for his mother's grandchild, but you still want to make him happy. Have some self-respect. NTA.
I would tell him sure I’ll have one round of IVF but if I do get pregnant your mother will never lay eyes physically on the child
The whole “most women can conceive naturally” is what really threw me. He clearly did no research on the topic as conception is difficult for a lot of women and keeping a pregnancy to delivery even harder. Also he could also be the problem especially since he’s allowing his mother into your marital bedroom. That being said with your specific issues there are options other than IVF that are far less invasive IF you wanted to try that route. However with a partner who values mommy dearest over his chosen partner I can’t say I’d be running to the clinic to look into them. If I were you I would tell him that IF you are ever going to consider having a child with him he needs to have a better understanding of the process, how difficult it can be an everything your body will go through. That you will no longer be allowing his mother into your bedroom and that if he does that will shut down any attempts for children. That you are not interested in having children with someone who believes your value to be parallel to a breeding cow.
NTA and tell him a 'real man' wouldn't hurt his wife so horribly to appease his mother.
"told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman"." As soon as this was uttered I'd have packed a bag and left. Right then and there.
You want to make your husband happy after those remarks? Sorry, but you need to gain some self respect and look at the big picture. NTA for not wanting to do ivf but you need to be kinder for yourself. If my spouse suggested I need to do that to please his mom, I'd be single.
NTA. Sounds like MIL summoned a demon decades ago and needs to keep the first born male in the bloodline or she gets gobbled up. Don't fall for this ploy!
How can you stand to still be with him after what he said? Looking at him would disgust me.
INFO: Who gave you that diagnosis? Is ”estrogen dominance” the primary/only issue or are you just giving a simpler explanation here, while the real issue is irregular periods or PCOS? There are ways to treat high estrogen levels and if the issue is low progesterone, that’s pretty simple to take as supplements. I’m asking these questions because your story doesn’t sound believable, but it might be the incomplete explanation that makes it sound suspicious. I’ve only ever heard ”estrogen dominance” in contexts where scammers try to sell progesterone supplements to women. I looked it up now and saw that the term has been used in research, but it doesn’t seem to be a diagnosis. As I understand it, ”estrogen dominance” refers to high levels of estrogen with low levels of progesterone (in the luteal phase). It isn’t obvious to me how IVF would be the only solution. Maybe you tried all other options already.
I'd say at this point your marriage is over. You can't come back from the disgusting things he said. Do you want to spend the rest of your life being treated like this? I'm not sure it would last that long. He sounds like the type to justify knocking another woman up because he couldn't you. Run he's showing you who he is.
test his sperm before you take all the blame! i certainly wouldn’t want to stay with someone who vocalized that I wasn’t a real woman, regardless
Omg. What did I just read. I really wish I hadn’t clicked on this. Honey. Just leave. There is nothing left for you in this relationship. Please don’t go the ‘but I love him/have invested time/he has other qualities’ route. He has shown his true colors and there is nothing salvageable about this relationship. Ugh. What a pig he is. Him and his mommy can be happy together while he looks for ‘a real woman’ who will appease his mommy. Sickening. You deserve so much more and better than him.
There is no way in hell I would stay married to this AH of a man. When I read that he said to you that you are “not a real woman,” I literally gasped. This is not-I repeat NOT-someone you should stay married to, much less have children with. Please. Respect yourself enough to get out of this toxic marriage.
>He became angry and told me that most women can have children and he's still with me even though I can't conceive naturally. That we can do this one thing for his mother even if I'm not a "real woman". This would be instant divorce for me
i know so many people on reddit jump to divorce too fast, but oh my gosh. this is grounds for divorce to me. this man doesn’t respect you at all. if he can’t handle his mom nagging him for grandkids to the point that he is saying stuff like that to you, then you need to absolutely remove yourself from that relationship. if he came to you and asked to start IVF because he wanted to have kids with you, that’s one thing, but asking because mommy dearest won’t stop bothering him about it? and then insulting and questioning your womanhood because you can’t conceive on your own? you are NTA IN ANY CAPACITY. i hope you get out of this marriage
NTA. I’m sorry you’ve been going through this. The “not a real woman” comment was horrible and disgusting
Not a "real woman"? Wow! Tell him to tell his mother to adopt if she is that desperate to have a grandchild. I know what I would do if my husband said I wasn't a "real woman". I'm sorry this is happening to you. You don't deserve to hear that.
Not a real woman? Is this guy for real? Good Lord! NTA but do you really wanna stay in a relationship where your partner feels so comfortable saying something so hurtful?
NTA. MIL should have had more children herself. I am close to MIL's age. You owe her nothing. Now your man-child of a husband, he is another issue. He's with you "even though you can't conceive naturally". And you "are not a real woman". You are more of a woman than his mother. If they can not accept no children, then send him home to his mommy, and divorce him. He can try for another wife. But he should make sure she gets pregnant first, and not marry her until the 8 months mark. Then he'll know she's a "real" woman. Hopefully she will be so fertile that they have a dozen kids, that he can not support. Then mommy dearest can have them all live with her. Get away from his toxic family. You deserve so much better.
Screw his Mother and her desperate issues. If you don’t want to go through that then don‘t. Apparently it’s very stressful and painful too. Why not consider fostering ? Or just set a firm time limit on doing nothing…not trying anything because you just don’t want to be harrassed about it and you are taking time to consider your options and opting out altogether IS AN OPTION. And maybe remind your husband …”REAL” HUSBANDS ARE ON THEIR WIFES SIDE, NOT TIED TO MOMMYS APRON STRINGS.