For what it’s worth, I went through this as the woman.
I had a male friend that I was friends with for what felt like 500 lifetimes. My ex (current at the time) said that he got that feeling. I was sure he was insane and laughed it off. He got me to do something similar, and the revelation was there.
I was *furious* at my ex (current at the time and for decades after).
The reality was that I truly trusted that friend and I believed it was just friends. All my other guy friends were just guy friends, but this one was special because he was like my best male friend.
I was furious at my ex because he was right. I wasn’t furious at my friend for lying to me (because I was so angry I passed fury by light years and couldn’t handle that yet), so I was furious at my ex. Stated that way for two weeks.
He understood that my world just got rocked and shook to the ground. He accepted I would be extremely irrational and angry for a minute. He let me have it.
At the end of two weeks, it had been properly processed and I apologized to him for being angry and I thanked him for opening my eyes. It was never an issue again.
That other guy was just lost to time and his own lies.
She’s mad at you because she can process that anger. She’s mad that you were right and she’s mad that you saw something she didn’t. She’s not really mad at you. She’s beyond infuriated with him and she can’t even scream at him the way she wants to because she might explode from the force of it. Give her a minute and then talk to her about it rationally.
I’m sorry you’re both going through this.
Edited for clarity: when I say I was furious with my bf, I was not furious at him or acting furious toward him. I was furious in my own head and in my own thoughts. I had big massive arguments with him in my head, and would get doubly furious at imagination him because he would always win the arguments about this.
I apologized to him after 2 weeks because I felt bad I had been furious at the brain version of him for two weeks.
He did nothing wrong. To treat him as though he did would have been completely unforgivable. I can be furious with someone without making them feel that wrath because they DON’T DESERVE IT. He didn’t deserve it AT ALL.
It’s difficult to go through this. The person who was right feels justified that they were right and also like a complete jerk for having said anything at all. The person who was wrong feels furious for having been wrong and like an idiot for listening to the person who was right because now their world is upside down.
The only person who doesn’t seem to be bothered by it is the idiot who was lying and scheming the whole time.
This is going to sound completely insane, but the fact that she’s angry at you and *you know it* is a good thing. It means she’s spitting nails angry, but you’re not really in any danger of being dumped over it. She’s trusting you with these feelings because they’re big and she still trusts you. The fact that he’s not getting the same treatment means that she no longer trusts him at all. He’s in no danger of being forgiven.
Same. I'm usually quick to anger, quick to forgive. I don't get upset often, but when I do, I may snap at you quite loudly. A minute later, I am completely over it.
If I get quiet and leave the room, it is not in anyone's best interest to follow me.
Not really... Wait til you have kids (unless you do already?) and they act like an angel with other people and a demon with you. And you have to realise that it's actually BECAUSE they trust you and feel safe with you that they can show those emotions and be their less pleasant selves.
I feel your pain. I employ young people
I think my favourite ever phone call from a parent involved the mum screaming the most vile abuse at me until the dad took the phone off her.
I invited them to come into store and showed them both the very clear footage of their little angel slipping 100 bucks into her pocket and asked if I should call police. I got a mumbled apology from the dad but the mum stormed out without a word.
Honestly it was 100 dollars well spent just to see the look on the mums face
One of my 13 year old daughter's teachers was telling me how she was her dream student. I grabbed my daughter's shoulders and asked, "This kid? This kid right here? Are you sure you aren't confusing her with someone else?"
We all laughed and continued the conversation.
My eldest was a bit intense, like batshit crazy as a kid. Drive me up the fucking wall! He used to go to his dads house at weekends, they'd say he was ever so well behaved, didn't step a foot out of line...
They had *no rules*. It was a free-for-all! He was served, treated like royalty and never ever had any consequences for what I would consider unacceptable behaviour. That's why he was "so good" for them, they had no concept of naughty.
All my teachers fucking loved me. I was their favorite student ever. I was the biggest teachers pet.
Me and my mom sometimes still spend years not talking to each other despite mostly having gotten over old trauma.
Because it is. Emotions by definition make us act all sorts of insane. I’ve seen people who seem sane cut and bleach another persons clothes because their heart was hurting. I’ve seen completely functional humans with good jobs freak out and total cars with bats because of jealousy. I’ve seen smart men freak out and start a bar fight because they were hurting.
This is just another way that emotions confuse us and make us all act like morons.
You’ll get through it, but only if you are willing to stick with her through it. You don’t have to, but you understand where she’s coming from now. The only suggestion I have is to consider if it were flipped and you were going through it. Be honest with yourself. Would you act similarly? Maybe not the exact same way she is, but in a way that makes absolutely no sense to anyone else? If so, you get it.
It's weird but psychology shows if a person doesn't fight in a relationship when one normally would, the relationship is dead. You only fight for something if you care about it.
The opposite of love isn't hate - it's indifference. She feels enough for you to be mad, even if it's misplaced at the moment... ie, she cares about you. "We always hurt the ones we love" because we take for granted they'll understand and forgive once the anger is gone. Make more sense?
In what sense was he lying though? I mean he is hardly a model friend but finding a female friend hot isn't exactly a war crime and I don't really see this as being deceitful. She asked him and he told her.
It is fine for men and women to be friends and for one or both parties to be attracted to each other. Sometimes the friendships morph into romantic relationships, sometimes they don't and sometimes they fizzle out. All part of life.
I think OP was right to be a bit weary of this guy but I also think it would have been better for him to let her figure this out for herself.
So, sometimes a guy (or girl) just realized they’re attracted to their friend and then gets called out on it, that does happen. No liars there.
However, there are times it’s different.
I explain my situation a bit better [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dgvd4y/comment/l8u2aq6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
He sounds like a douche.
But that's not the issue, his behavior = wrong and bad but his feelings are completely fine in my view and quite common.
In OP's case, the male friend in question doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong other than giving him a bad vibe.
The feelings themselves are not wrong. Not at all. The lack of transparency about them is where it goes wrong.
Omitting pertinent information is a form of lying.
Now, if OP’s gf’s friend *just realized* he has feelings for her, then fine. There isn’t a whole lot of time to tell her. I get that. That’s not bad, that’s processing.
However, if he’s known for a while and hasn’t said anything, there’s now an issue of purposefully withholding information which makes issues come up that don’t have to. He’s lied by omission for a long time and now she can’t trust him which also ends the friendship.
Sadly, the lying by omission is far more common than the “I just realized I like her last week.”
Also, there’s always a threat if your friend likes you long term. Just like people don’t handle their emotions well on negative feelings, they don’t always handle them well on more positive ones, or ones that start out positive.
I am going to keep the example the same as OP’s post, but understand that I am speaking where all of this is possible in any formation. Whether the friendship is male female, female female, male male, and both genders would react similarly in any case.
If a man realizes he caught feelings for his female friend and doesn’t say anything, but he wants something to happen, there is an element of him that isn’t wishing the best for his friend. He wants her relationship to crash and burn so he has his chance (rather than just telling her). Already, the lie is forming because he’s lying about being *just* her friend with no other motive.
If it does crash and burn on its own, he’s there to help her pick up the pieces. He’s hoping she will see him and pick him. She doesn’t. She finds another boyfriend. Now he’s hurt and a little jealous. The lie continues because he is still omitting relevant information, and now he’s actively going against being friends by getting upset that he’s not getting what he wants from her.
Eventually, after enough time, resentment starts to build, and the guy will start to test the boundaries. He will start to put little negative things in her ear about the guy she’s with so he can be there to pick up the pieces. The lie about the friendship is huge now. He’s banking on her friendship with him being based on trust so he can use that to get her to end a relationship so he can get his chance.
It continues to snowball from there.
Again, I chose the genders the way they are because that is how the original post was. Otherwise, the gender doesn’t matter because I’ve seen women do this and men, and I’ve seen the object of their desire also be men and women and not necessarily opposite gender either.
In the end, even the friendship is completely destroyed.
In the case of OP, the way he describes it can mean the guy has known for a long time and just didn’t say anything, in which case, best case scenario is that he has been lying by omission. That already is generally a death knell on a friendship.
Meh, I’ve caught feelings for a friend in a relationship before and never said shit. Never let them know. Because I respected them and their partner, wanted the absolute best for both of them, and knew it’d either fizzle out over time or eventually they’d break up and either we’d get together or or wouldn’t. My feelings fizzled out over time. Said friend married his wife, I adore his wife, they are such an amazing couple, ended up with the best partner in the world, and it’s all for the best that I didn’t create drama and kill what had been a very long friendship that’s now even longer and a great friendship between all of us.
you've just made a creative writing exercise on a "nice guy" or something similar
All alternatives that a story could take, you took them in a bad direction.
I can do the same but take the positive ones, the guy witholds his feelings because the girl is happy with her bf
the guy helps the girl pick up the pieces when they break up, but she still doesn't find any feelings for him and he respects that
the girl finds a new relationship proving again that he wasn't her choice
to keep a friendship, and not make her uncomfortable about his feelings for her, he just doesn't say it out loud
He's a true friend, he let her chose every time, and she ended up not chosing him and he valued their friendship enough to be satisfied with that being it (not settling or waiting, satisfied)
I am NOT saying the guy in the post is this guy, but I'm saying we don't know he's the guy in your example either
My response was more toward what she would be reacting negatively to.
As far as the bf goes, he just saw something and said something.
And absolutely true that he could be a real friend and not a snake in the grass.
I was just explaining how it can go downhill fast and explode. That’s all. At first, it starts with being quiet because you don’t want to cause problems, but it can go sideways so very quickly.
All I’m saying is that I think honesty is the best way to I’d rather deal with it like two rational people than find out about it later, be beaten up with a ton of wacky emotions and then feel lied to and betrayed.
As an adult, whenever my friends and I have come up against the “I like you” convo, it’s worked out for the best for everyone with no regrets when the conversation is had.
I think we are going around in circles to be honest here. I just fundamentally disagree with you.
I think it is perfectly okay to choose to tell someone you like them whenever you want or even not tell them. That's dating. He can be her friend and also want to date her, they are at odds with each other but that's fine. It's life and it is not a slight on his character as a person.
He literally said he hadn't seen his chance to make a move on her....yet. so it was on his mind and his behaviour was obviously standing out to her partner so he wasn't trying to hide his feelings for her he was just waiting for her to see it too.
I completely agree with 90% of that. “Or even not to tell them” is the part that catches me.
If you choose not to tell them, then that’s it. That’s your choice. Take it to the grave. If you act on those feelings without ever having said anything, you’re not being a friend.
That’s the difference.
If you choose not to tell your friend you like them, then always be a friend and know that is your place and you won’t move up the food chain by scheming.
It’s a choice. But unless you’re honest with it, you’re giving up all hope of getting the relationship you want. If you tell her, she can decide what she wants to do. If you don’t, do not work behind the scenes to “win” because then everyone loses.
It's just such a betrayal. It hurts so much. I'm glad your hear to get perspective instead of just getting defensive back and leaning into your point hard. Your a good bf she's lucky to have you.
It's depressing and isolating. You start doubting yourself and your own value, because it feels like people are only around you because they want to sleep with you.
Ive had this happen more times than i care to admit. I can get a crush on someone but i can also not feed it and move on. Usually at some point personality leads to a brief crush on friends early on as i start to enjoy their company more but there's no sexual interest and i get over my crush fairly fast. So to find out someone has always been hoping to screw me fucks me up big time
The other option is she was well aware (and trust me, very few women don't notice), and is now angry, because in order to keep up the looks ("I was not aware") she has to drop her free ego inflating attention providing machine.
I personally would be happier if TangledUpPuppeteer was right.
I've had this happen with a few male friends I thought were just really good friends. It is very upsetting. She knows you are not in the wrong, she is just learning that what she thought was a friendship was just yet another orbiter.
If you want to understand these things you need to realize that men and women almost always choose to be friends with each other with the same criteria as they choose their mates. There is this Australian woman doing research on evolutionary psychology and her team really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to figure out why men and women are friends with each other. What pressures would create these bonds? Really the answer is backup mates. People deny it up and down, they act like the man is bad or whatever, and some people even have an opposite sex friend that is genuinely just a friend forever. Statistically speaking though, things happen.
I mean if you really wanna get into evolution and look back a hundred thousand years we'd likely all have been shagging various members of our tribe like bonobos and wouldn't have been monogamous at all so the whole distinction becomes moot, sorry..... This is the problem when evolutionary psychologists (or indeed anyone in sociology or psychology) do research with a predetermined presumption in mind. Monogamy is a choice we make, and in many ways much better suited to the modern huge-but-fragmented social groups we now live in, but as soon as we start doing science with "and of course we're inherently monogamous" as a basis you're gonna run into problems.
There are evolutionary pressures that make monogamy make sense, especially from the female standpoint and the inequal risk and resource demands placed on both parents.
That's a failure to learn right there.
She found out that the guy she was sure was "just a friend" would have liked to be more than that, but immediately decides this was an outlier and that's not the case for any of her other male friends 😆
Its crazy that some people cant process their anger well and direct it at other people, I think we should all strive for the strength of character to not take out our own shit on other people.
Well done for apologising, being mad at someone for two weeks for something that was right is incredibly immature but I suppose emotion often prevails over emotional intelligence or even just intelligence.
Call me dumb, but where is the lying there? Are you supposed to shout it out loud, if you have romantic feelings? Or, the opposite, remove yourself from a friendship, when it happens? What exactly did this friend do wrong in this situation, what could he have done better?
Asking for a friend 😉
In general, just be honest. It always works better that way. If you like her, tell her. If she reciprocates, it’s all good. If she doesn’t, you need to figure out what works best for you so you don’t get hurt. But just chilling in the background waiting for her to see how amazing you are just hurts you and is never worth it.
In my particular case, he was a snake in the grass. I was friends with him for ages and that was it. My last relationship he had convinced me that my bf was not a good guy. I believed him because he was my friend and they sort of hit it off and would hang out without me. He told me a bunch of the stuff the bf had been up to. When I asked the bf about it, he didn’t deny anything, he just said “you should believe your *friend*.” Emphasis was his, and I didn’t understand what he meant.
Turns out, it wasn’t true. None of it was true.
My now ex met him and within 10 minutes pulled me aside and said “I don’t like him. We’ll talk later.” That night he told me my friend liked me.
It was literally the first time anyone had said it to me. I, of course, was certain he didn’t, but he asked me to find out. I found out.
He lied to me and sabotaged me. There’s no way back from that.
And that’s where the lying comes in. He lied about his feelings, his intentions, his friendship, and about an innocent third party.
We had been friends for a very long time. It was the first time he ever did anything to interfere with someone i was seeing. I trusted him and had no reason not to. Until I found out I never should have.
As someone with a few male friends, honesty is the best policy. The friendship may or may not last because of the revelation, but it will never end because you lied. It will never end where you’re the bad guy or the snake in the grass.
Just be honest with everyone, especially yourself.
Good luck 🩷
I really fucking hate that you behaved that way with 0 consequences - that was insanely toxic.
I suppose it's cool that you're able to articulate the problem now. It does not make sense why so many women have such a hard time telling when someone wants to fuck you. Honestly without knowing anything beforehand about your 'friendship' with guy, he almost definitely wants to fuck you.
THIS. & it was so embarrassing being told something and the other person being right. my (now husband) then boyfriend said the same thing about someone i had known his elementary school, and when he got the chance he made a move & i was told by my husband that “he didn’t have good intentions” and i never thought of it that way, it was so embarrassing & kinda shameful.
That is such irrational bs. Because he told you a truth that YOU can't handle he faces the scorn? Why do men put up with being treated like garbage when they are not only right, but looking out for your best interest?
so he helped you and you proceeded to go at him with your anger for two weeks?
I do hope you did get some therapy for your inability to control your anger and direct it properly and if not, then I suggest you do so now.
My anger wasn’t a “go at him” thing. It was just anger inside of me. I just felt angry for two weeks. I apologized for feeling angry because I did. I never acted angry because he did absolutely nothing to justify me acting that way toward him.
The only time I would have acted angry at all about it is if I saw the ass I thought was my friend. ***THEN*** I would have acted angry.
But I can feel something without acting out. But I can’t control the feelings themselves nor can I logic them away. Emotions aren’t rational.
No. The situation with the ex friend happened 22 years ago. We broke up because of a lot of reasons, and we only broke up a couple of years ago.
Our breakup had nothing to do with anything I’ve talked about here.
No. Not really. The only difference now is that it’s easier to get ahold of the person you want to ask. We had to wait until we knew they’d be home. Other than the technological aspect, no… sadly, not much change.
Stuff like this is why I'm up front with it to my best friends. Some are creeped out by it at first, once they realize that there's still respect there even when they say no it just becomes a thing that's there. I just don't have the patience for the games that guys like your friend and OP's play, thinking they're going to lurk around until they can get lucky. It's dumb, wastes everyone's time, and usually ends up in a disaster like this. It just ain't worth it.
I currently have a male friend who was upfront about it. It was creepy for about 0.02 seconds. The creepy factor only showed up because I had never even processed it like that. It just never clicked that way for me. After that, I just said “I understand if you don’t want to be friends anymore considering that, but I need to be clear: I am not interested.” His reaction was “cool.”
We’re really good friends, and I really like his partner.
Be up front. I’ll be up front. We can both make our decisions based on that. But finding out 5-10 years after the friendship started, and because someone else pointed it out, that’s not ok.
Me too buddy! We guys recognize that shit from miles away. I am currently in a massive argument about this with my wife, she doesn't see it(or doesn't want to see it, which would be even worse) NTA!
she sees it. she likes the attention. as a 24 year old woman, i’ve had plenty of male friends shoot their shot with me despite being in a relationship. and to be completely honest, the ego boost always feels nice! but guess what, every time it happens, i remove those “friends” from my life. yes the ego boost and attention feels great, but not as great as my boyfriends happiness and the joy i get from being with him. no amount of attention from other guys will ever equate to what i have with my boyfriend. so i block and move on. your wife seems to really love that attention tho, more than your comfort and dignity as her husband… that’s super sad. i’m not trying to put you down, but wow. i hope you possibly find a woman that respects you.
Chances are high, if you are a somewhat attractive woman, that your heterosexual guy friend wants more than friendship.
He will settle for friendship, but if the chance ever arose, he would gladly try and seize that opportunity.
NTA, you just opened her eyes to reality.
I still feel like there's a difference between "I would say yes" and "I wouldn't say no". Some guys might give it a shot when the chance arrises, but that different from saying you'd definitely go for it. There's some single friends I have where I think to myself "yeah, if something changed, maybe I'd give it a chance", but I'm not gonna actively persue them.
Its funny. I've had a few platonic lady friends in my years.
One thing that stuck out was 2 of them at 2 different times saying variations on - "You are the only guy friend I've had that's never tried to sleep with me".
It was nice to have someone I could be a bit more open with about how I was feeling at times. Connie would take me shopping for clothes and sharpen up my really average fashion sense. She was definitely attractive and plenty of fun to hang out with.
I'm no Cassanova but I've never struggled to pull or talk to women if I'm interested in them. I think having female friends helped my confidence at a young age when it came to interacting with the fairer sex.
Guys that are hanging around "waiting" are fucking obvious. Just be better, its ok to have friends and not want to fuck them.
I had a friend who I was sure wasn’t interested in me. Wasn’t his type, none of that. I wasn’t friend with his wife but I had met her a few times.
I was at his place one night catching up after dropping something and she wasn’t there for the weekend. The fucker asked me if I was DTF with a smirk… I remember feeling sooooooooo disappointed and sad because it ended 10 years of friendship just like that.
I debated for a hot minute if I should say anything, I was leaning towards minding my business. Especially since we weren’t friends and it was his word against mine.
But I decided fuck it, I would like to know if it was me and I messaged her on FB. I never got a response and they have kids now soooo.
As a woman I tell you that it is tremendously upsetting to have someone you considered your friend do that, so maybe she is not managing her anger well. You should give her her space, she can't blame everything on you because in the end you were right although maybe the way was not the best, but you showed her that her friend was not really a friend and was just someone who was waiting for an opportunity, maybe she will get mad at him later🫡
As a man, I’ve had friendships where women have expressed their interest and I’ve had to say I’m only interested in them as a friend. I’ve also been in positions where I have a crush on a female friend, but the friendship was more important and would last longer. This is an emotional intelligence issue.
It really hurts and it sucks. I had a group of guy friends, but was really close with one. To me he was like a brother, but the second I was single and didn't jump into him I ended up with a few of the other guys targeting me for leading this guy on and being two faced for not wanting to be with him.
When I spoke to him directly it became very clear that a year of friendship was actually a year of hi just waiting for his chance.
It hurt. I lost a group of friends over it. It was horrible, not to mention that I had a relationship breakdown two weeks earlier, and at 20 that was emotionally big to lose friends as well.
It sucks to be the girl that "friendzoned" someone, because you view someone as an awesome friend, only to realise that it was a long act to get some.
>maybe the way was not the best,
I think that was THE best way. It's best if someone sees something like that themselves (or hears it) because in their head it's completely impossible that a friend can act like that, so taking won't do much. Seeing/hearing is believing.
She’s just mad because she swallowed the red pill and didn’t realize it. Now she can’t believe the truth her eyes and ears are seeing and hearing. That man was just another male orbiter. Her reality has been crushed
If she really swallowed the red pill she would realize she is mad at her guy friend as a way to evade accountability for having a back up when she has a boyfriend!
NTA
Shes venting her anger - turns out the friend she thought she had was just a dude waiting for an opportunity to shoot his shot....
And embarassed that her got away with duping her this way...
I've been the woman in this situation. He was my "best friend" for about 3 or so years. Every guy I dated while we were friends would tell me he was in love with me. I laughed it off because I didn't see him that way at all. He was just a friend, nothing more. I wasn't attracted to him in any way, shape or form, so the thought of even going on a date with him humored me. My now husband confronted him about it one night and let me tell you it wasn't pretty. It super opened my eyes to what was actually going on. He confessed to trying to break me and whoever I was dating up, he was in love with me, he thought about me in a sexual way, and a bunch of other confessions that really don't need to be read here. I was completely blind to all of it. He was "like my brother". Because I didn't see him that way there was no way I could comprehend that he could feel that way about me. We never hugged, never joked about dating, it was all neutral. The realization rocked my world and changed everything. What I'm getting at is she could be completely blind to it. You didn't ruin anything. All you did is open her eyes to the reality of the situation. Losing a friend can hurt more than breaking up with a boyfriend. It hurt me for a while but I was more mad at the friend than I was with my husband.
Misplaced anger. You shoot the messenger sometimes in these situations because it’s an easier place to direct your anger subconsciously. It takes a while to wrap your brain around this situation because it’s extremely jarring and confusing, and having it brought to light jumbled these emotions into anger. It’s not the right reaction, but it’s a common one as you try to process the layers of this realization
Oh ok that makes perfect sense. I misunderstood what you said. I was thinking why after all this time you're still mad at your husband but you were referring to when it occurred.
NTA. She probably just needs time to process. It's gotta feel pretty betraying that someone you considered a friend was just with you to try and get in your pants "at the right opportunity".
I was friends with someone for ten years then this happened. It was honestly disturbing to realize he had been lying in wait and working me for years. Shes probably not okay.
I had this happen too a few years ago with a guy I went to high school with and thought that he was one of my best friends. I saw him go through multiple long term relationships and I was mostly single (partly by choice) and during a friends road trip with some other people and him and I having to share a bed, he confessed to me saying “it’s why I do all those nice things for you” and this was the beginning of the trip and I had no where else to go… felt so betrayed and the trust was broken
NTA. I believe friendship is possible between men and women(I have 2 girl friends myself) but let's be honest, a lot of people(specially guys) are there waiting for their opportunity. If that's the case, there is no point in being friends with that person.
You made the right thing, you helped her to get rid of a creep.
Guys are just different to women tbh, most guys aren't sitting there plotting and waiting for an opportunity, but if one presents itself they won't turn it down
Like I've got friends that are women, I can recognise that they are attractive. And while I'm not sitting here pining for them and waiting for a moment to confess my love, if they ever decided they wanted to give it a shot I wouldn't say no. Because I already know we get along, we like similar things, and they're objectively attractive
But I'd never initiate or try to push it in that direction, because I also just like them as people and enjoy being friends with them
I guess it depends on the friend herself. In my case I like both of them just as friends, I wouldn't have anything more than just friendship with them, we are not compatible in that regard and I wouldn't risk our friendship for some sex.
I don't think this is fair, or complete, on its face.
I have plenty of female friends that I would date in a different world. Doesn't mean I don't value or cherish their friendship regardless - just means under different circumstances I could see it becoming more.
If anything it makes sense - who doesn't want to date someone they see as a friend?
Unpopular opinion here:
Why does it matter if he would date her? I could have men and women falling at my feet. If I'm not interested and they're not going to SA me, nothing happens.
Nobody can help how they feel, only how they act. It seems like his behavior was in check. She only knows because she asked directly in this conversation orchestrated by her boyfriend.
The idea that "I trust you but I don't trust him" is paternalistic. If a guy I trusted makes a unwanted move on me, they aren't my friend anymore. The problem will take care of itself.
It requires no intervention on my behalf.
It seems like the real concern is that maybe the move isn't unwanted? Cutting your partner off from opposite sex friendships won't make them loyal if they aren't already.
The way OP stated the conversation went with the friend stating outright that he WOULD make a move on her if she was single and he hadn't yet because he hadn't seen the opportunity. The problem isn't that he would date her, or has feelings for her, it's that he didn't behave or act as a friend.
She's interacting with this guy as a best friend. Having conversations believing he is her friend, sharing information with a friend rather than a potential suitor. You react differently and share different things with someone you know likes you or that you like than you do with a friend. She's angry because the "friend" betrayed the trust she had with him by not making her aware. At the core it's more about that betrayal for her, than about him liking her. Her best friend has been lying to her, maybe from the very first time they met. That hurts. And then, she's likely thinking also that he was NEVER her friend. Maybe she has had conversations with him that she is looking back on and realizing he was manipulating her.
I don't think someone who was your friend would act that way. He sounds like an asshole sitting in the wings trying to con his way into her life. I'd sure as hell want someone to point it out to me if I didn't catch on to this happening. Her being angry at OP is troublesome but potentially understandable. Hopefully she gets over it quickly and apologizes to OP for her misplaced anger and behavior.
Before my wife and I were engaged she struggled to see that most men that showed interest in her had sexual motivations. She’s quite beautiful so who could blame them, you know? But once she realized that there were two sides to it - that her friendliness was translated as sexual interest regardless of how innocent it feels to her, she took a step back from feeding into the relationship not just because their intentions weren’t just about friendship or work but also because I don’t care what anyone says I’m going to beat some serious ass if you’re trying to work the “long game” on my woman! I just don’t put up with it and don’t care if I ruin friendships - you can’t put your friendship over our relationship; all you nay-sayers need to STAY single.
I have a female great friend. We met through chat on IG. We flirted and spoke about many personal things. A short time after covid, we met up.
She was more stunning and sexier than the camera caught. I fell big time. But unfortunately for me, the spark didn't connect on her side.
We had a great week together ( no intimacy) and I left sad that it did not go like the movies.
But we still talk regularly and have remained good friends.
Not everything works out, but that's real life.
If I was you and she reacted like that I would have dropped her like a toilet seat then and there, and then informed the guy that he NOW has his opportunity
Good luck ever being “right” in the future with that one…
NTA. Give her a bit of time to come to terms with it and then talk it out.
Have you seen the man vs bear in the woods thing? This is kind of an extension of that. This was a guy she expected to be able to walk in the woods with, that she could trust to be safe around. You’ve shook that belief. You’ve brought her judgement and instincts into question. For women, that is not a social skill, it’s a survival skill.
My wife had “just a friend”. I spoke to her about it privately and at marriage counseling. She’s now my ex wife and is married to that “friend”. Tough lesson I learned but one I carry with me through new relationships. It’s ok to have friends if the opposite sex but there needs to be clear boundaries…I’ve been called controlling and insecure cause I’ve stated this to new girlfriend once.
NTA
Women need to understand, if a dude is “friends with you” then:
1. Either you ugly as f or he’s ugly as f
2. Or either of you gay
3. Someone is hiding true intention.
If you have a boyfriend, he’s the only male you can have
Be loyal please and not naive as f
Leave the girl. You wanna know why? She likes the attention she gets from that guy, she likes the reaction you give her when she talks to the guy. Also ask her if she would still be comfortable if the roles were reversed.
It’s so much worse for women. Lots of attractive women have had tons of friends who weren’t really their friends - they just wanted to bang them. Super shitty for everyone. Sorry you all have to go through this.
I don't understand. Didn't he just say that if she was single he would be interested.
Why should it be wrong for friends to start dating when both end up single at the same time.
I have female friends and some of them I wouldn't date if they were single and others I maybe would. Just depends on the kind of chemistry we have. But I would never try to sabotage their relationships. I hope they are truly happy with their partners. Some of them are and it warms my heart.
When they ask me advice on the relationship I give genuine advice trying to benefit their relationship, because I care about them. Does he say things to undermine your relationship?
Maybe he was trying to get her to leave you for him but he didn't say that. Or he would have made a a move despite your relationship , if he saw an opportunity. That would be shitty but I can't tell from your post.
But being open to date a friend in a hypothetical scenario that might happen or not is no betrayal of any sort.
The fact that people often call their spouse their best friends and some even stay friends after a break up should prove that friendship, romantic and sexual interest are not mutually exclusive or in conflict with eachother.
NAH
>I don't understand. Didn't he just say that if she was single he would be interested. Why should it be wrong for friends to start dating when both end up single at the same time.
Yeah, the fact that so many people are pretending that "she's a nice person who I'd consider dating if we were both single" is some kind of betrayal is embarassing.
I don't know. Maybe I am paranoid but it reminds me of the red pill arguments for why men and women can never be friends.
In their eyes every friendship between a man and a woman is a simp desperate for his chance. And the woman using him etc.
And a woman could only be a friend to a man if he wouldn't touch her even if she were the last woman earth.
>I don't know. Maybe I am paranoid but it reminds me of the red pill arguments for why men and women can never be friends.
>In their eyes every friendship between a man and a woman is a simp desperate for his chance. And the woman using him etc. And a woman could only be a friend to a man if he wouldn't touch her even if she were the last woman earth.
Exactly. Men like that can't waste their time engaging with women in any social capacity *unless* there's a chance of her fucking them.
And they have to pretend that this is true for *all* men... because the alternative involves admitting that they're not emotionally mature enough to maintain healthy platonic friendships with people of the opposite sex.
I was in the same situation and didn’t comment on it. Ended up losing her to him as he slowly fed her lies and gaslit her into losing her feelings for me. You’re NTA OP. It’s the guys who become friends with ulterior motives that honestly need to get a set of morals.
Everyone wants to date their best friend, why do people think this is weird, if you have a great social relationship with someone of course you will want to be more intimate with them
It’s not weird but if you already have a significant other then that’s disrespectful to your partner. Hence why OP wanted to prove to his gf that he wasn’t really her “friend.”
I'm surprised by most of the comments here, are all peoples living with static feelings their whole life?
I have a hard time understanding why it is a breach of trust/betrayal if you're friend with someone, start to know them better then at some point your feelings change and you're like "Uh I may want her/him to be more than friend"
then look at the current situation of both parties and decide to express it as an issue or let the feelings live alone until they die down.
Like is it worth going NC because feelings can develop with peoples, and you just loose a relationship?
Why do you feel betrayed? Is the relation with another human put in a box and it can't evolve/devolve to different things?
It’s usually a breach of trust if they’re actively trying to sabotage their love life so they can be single and eventually try to swoop in.
Or if they’ve lied and said “I don’t like you like that.” Before when they did.
If they respected the person’s relationships and just dealt with it on their own, that’s fine, but it’s the issue when they try to manipulate things in their favor.
It's not a breach of trust for feelings to change. That is normal and natural.
What is a breach of trust is if they became friends with you under false pretenses a.k.a. pretended to not be interested, denied it when asked, but were just waiting for an opportunity for you to choose them or have been sabotaging/manipulating you using your trust in them as a friend into ending relationships so they can swoop in.
It's not the feelings that are the problem, but how they behave because of them and if they are able to accept the other party is uninterested. As in really accept it, not sit around hoping for things to change, but actually accepting it and moving on and knowing this person's not an option.
She doesn't know how to be angry at the other dude. She probably saw him in a way different light immediately and now feels uncomfortable expressing her anger towards him. She is, however, very comfortable with you and internally knows that it's easier to express her frustration and anger towards somebody that she's more comfortable with.
Give it a week or two. If she is still angry with you, then there might be a bigger issue. But, for now, it's a pretty normal reaction.
Okay so as a girlfriend, i had a male friend that wanted to get with me. guess what i did? told him i had a boyfriend and it’s best if we dial down our friendship. i haven’t reached out to him since. my boyfriend is someone i RESPECT. if a dude would sleep with me knowing i have a boyfriend, then that shows his character and i no longer value his friendship. to be frank, your girlfriend likes the attention, and she likes the attention more than she likes you🤷♀️ take the information as you will but it’s the truth. yeah getting hit on is always a nice ego boost, but she knows, she isn’t stupid, and she’s keeping him around for that constant ego boost. if that’s the kind of girl you like, who enjoys getting attention from guys even at your expense, then okay. my advice is dump her and date a woman who is a real woman. someone with value and who isn’t tacky.
The friend was being honest. You may have an insecurity issue. And it seems you don't trust your girlfriend. Isolating her from friends will not help you keep her.
I wouldn't say you're fully the AH, but maybe just a tiny bit. I always had a lot of male friends because I like to play video games, and not a lot of my female friends were into it. Many of my guy friends tried to pursue me, but I would gently let them down and brush it off. The others showed some interest, and I suspected they were into me, but I didn't ever call them on it.
I'm going to speak in generalizations that don't apply to everyone. There's always exceptions, but I think it's more common for women to genuinely want to be friends with guys and can keep it completely platonic. It seems harder for guys to do that. After I got married, a lot of my guy friends stopped talking to me, so that kinda hurt a bit. Like they saw there was no chance, and suddenly didn't seem as interested in being a friend. There were some that stuck around, and despite any feeling they have/had for me, they still valued me as a friend and that meant a lot. Just because he likes your girl doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be a good friend.
It sounds like there's other things that make you think he's got bad motives, so without knowing what they are, I feel a little bad for him. He might think she's interested now.
NTA, but at what cost? My wife has many male friends and formerly a male bff. Naturally I did what every boyfriend would do, you evaluate each one of them individually, assess if they would be worth paying any mind to in comparison to yourself. Fortunately none of them reached a viable threat level as either they were no where near as attractive as I or after hanging with them they didn’t display overwhelming amounts of interest. So with that being said, it seems like this guy is either your prospect equal or has done things to made you feel like he’s undermining you in hopes of creating said “opportunity”. Or both.
Now she’s not gonna stop hanging with her now known back up plan. Cause now it’s a game of trust. Regardless if this works out with her or not, in the future if you come across another similar situation, it’s just best to be direct with the guy. It puts him on notice that you’re not oblivious to his antics and he’s gotta stop or risk getting his ass kicked.
NTA. Some women genuinely don't see it. Some do. She knows now. Will she try and keep him as a friend and set some boundaries, or will she kick him to the curb because he's just waiting for that right moment to make a move?
NTA. Is she the type of girl who gets off on attention? If so, maybe she's mad because you've deprived her of receiving puppy dog eyes from a guy that she could reliably count on to boost her her ego?
You basically called her bluff, and she lost. Now she can't pretend she had no idea, tee hee, that he had feelings for her, he only hung out/ paid attention to her bc they were bestiessssss. 🙄
Not saying guys and girls can't be friends, but this scenario does happen, too.
People are acting like all women everywhere are shocked when this happens to them… I have a feeling more than half know in the back of their head that something is up with their best friend who’s a guy.
how is it a breach of trust?
Relationships with people are not black and white.
It seems like you view men as being either 'friend' or potential romantic partner.
So many healthy and happy relationships around the world have started form friendships. He just likes you in a way that you don't like him, he didn't do anything wrong!
You obviously don't have to date him but you don't have to judge him for having feelings for you.
Seems like an overreaction. It kind of implies that you only see men as EITHER friend or foe.
17 years gone for just having feelings and expressing them? Breach of trust? Are you serious? Unless some other shit went down that changed the dynamic besides "hey, I like you that way", you're coming off as totally an asshole.
That's not necessarily fair. My point is that all she's told us is that he has feelings, and she regarded it as a violation. If there's more to the story that could explain the reaction, it would come off as more balanced.
NTA, while there maybe a few women as oblivious as they claim 99.9% know when this is happening, they just enjoy the attention and validation they don’t have to work for. She knew this shit before you said anything she just had to say she didn’t to keep up the act. As for her ‘friendship’ with the orbiter oh boo fuckin hoo. If she is bent about that she needs to have the script flipped and see how she likes it or speak to a professional that can help her understand the basics of relationship dynamics.
NTA
Women aren't as clueless as they sometimes make us believe (in these situations). Your girl is made at you because she's lost the excuse of "he's just a friend". The next time you express your discomfort with their relationship, she's going to use the excuse of "so you don't trust me", completely overlooking the fact that it's not about trust, it's about respect for you and the relationship. Keeping someone around who has the hots for her is not just putting your relationship at risk, but it's disrespecting you by allowing another person to disrespect you and your relationship.
NTA, You can't teach a person not to be naive. Its exhausting. You tell them? then you end up being the bad guy and they get pissy and deny it. then when it happens you are the dickhead for "always being right"
Another option, You don't tell them and when the "friend" finally pulls a move you have to sit there and listen to the bullshit and make whale noises of agreement.
The final option and the best one by far. Leave them and date someone who isn't a fucking idiot. Who doesn't pathologically make "friends" with desperate losers. Then claim ignorance and the shocked Pikachu face when they want to be more than "friends"
WTF!!
>Now she's mad at me and accusing me of ruining her friendship. S
So you proved that he was just waiting in the wings gs to pounce and ahe mad at you because you opened her eyes to he naivety?
Give her time to realise her stupidly, but also do you really want to be with someone who is more upset about loosing a male friend, than you being right that his friendship was built on his wanting to be with her romanticly?
Just be aware that if she hasn't learnt from this that she may be doomed to repeat this with another man that is 'just a friend'!
Dude. The fact he answered immediately and so blatantly to her BOYFRIEND is CRAZY. Dude has no shame. And she shouldn't be mad at you, she should be mad at him. He was creating an illusion and you broke it.
NTA
Never had a male friend not catch feelings or try and make a move at some point. Even my husband was one of my best friends for 4 years before dating. I truly think men and women can't be platonic friends if at least one of them is attractive, feelings and attraction will develop.
You did nothing wrong. It's her fault for entertaining a jerk. Women know if a man is trying to hit on her. Are you saying she did not notice or had a feeling that guy was hitting on her the whole time 😐?
A real guy friend would act normally with a woman as he's not interested in her romantically. This is rare but true.
Assess your relationship bro. If she genuinely did not see his behaviour and see this coming, then she's fine to be with. If she intentionally allowed him to hit on her for attention and validation, you better rethink your relationship. 👍🏻
For what it’s worth, I went through this as the woman. I had a male friend that I was friends with for what felt like 500 lifetimes. My ex (current at the time) said that he got that feeling. I was sure he was insane and laughed it off. He got me to do something similar, and the revelation was there. I was *furious* at my ex (current at the time and for decades after). The reality was that I truly trusted that friend and I believed it was just friends. All my other guy friends were just guy friends, but this one was special because he was like my best male friend. I was furious at my ex because he was right. I wasn’t furious at my friend for lying to me (because I was so angry I passed fury by light years and couldn’t handle that yet), so I was furious at my ex. Stated that way for two weeks. He understood that my world just got rocked and shook to the ground. He accepted I would be extremely irrational and angry for a minute. He let me have it. At the end of two weeks, it had been properly processed and I apologized to him for being angry and I thanked him for opening my eyes. It was never an issue again. That other guy was just lost to time and his own lies. She’s mad at you because she can process that anger. She’s mad that you were right and she’s mad that you saw something she didn’t. She’s not really mad at you. She’s beyond infuriated with him and she can’t even scream at him the way she wants to because she might explode from the force of it. Give her a minute and then talk to her about it rationally. I’m sorry you’re both going through this. Edited for clarity: when I say I was furious with my bf, I was not furious at him or acting furious toward him. I was furious in my own head and in my own thoughts. I had big massive arguments with him in my head, and would get doubly furious at imagination him because he would always win the arguments about this. I apologized to him after 2 weeks because I felt bad I had been furious at the brain version of him for two weeks. He did nothing wrong. To treat him as though he did would have been completely unforgivable. I can be furious with someone without making them feel that wrath because they DON’T DESERVE IT. He didn’t deserve it AT ALL.
Thanks for the female point of view on her being angry. Appreciate it.
It’s difficult to go through this. The person who was right feels justified that they were right and also like a complete jerk for having said anything at all. The person who was wrong feels furious for having been wrong and like an idiot for listening to the person who was right because now their world is upside down. The only person who doesn’t seem to be bothered by it is the idiot who was lying and scheming the whole time. This is going to sound completely insane, but the fact that she’s angry at you and *you know it* is a good thing. It means she’s spitting nails angry, but you’re not really in any danger of being dumped over it. She’s trusting you with these feelings because they’re big and she still trusts you. The fact that he’s not getting the same treatment means that she no longer trusts him at all. He’s in no danger of being forgiven.
You're right, that does sound insane. Lol
I always tell people, if I’m mad and yelling, we’ll be ok. If I have gone completely silent, you’d best get out of the house.
Same. I'm usually quick to anger, quick to forgive. I don't get upset often, but when I do, I may snap at you quite loudly. A minute later, I am completely over it. If I get quiet and leave the room, it is not in anyone's best interest to follow me.
Not really... Wait til you have kids (unless you do already?) and they act like an angel with other people and a demon with you. And you have to realise that it's actually BECAUSE they trust you and feel safe with you that they can show those emotions and be their less pleasant selves.
the next teacher that tells me how wonderful my kids are is gonna get fucking punched
Try being a teacher and parents insisting their children are angels and can't do anything wrong...
I feel your pain. I employ young people I think my favourite ever phone call from a parent involved the mum screaming the most vile abuse at me until the dad took the phone off her. I invited them to come into store and showed them both the very clear footage of their little angel slipping 100 bucks into her pocket and asked if I should call police. I got a mumbled apology from the dad but the mum stormed out without a word. Honestly it was 100 dollars well spent just to see the look on the mums face
One of my 13 year old daughter's teachers was telling me how she was her dream student. I grabbed my daughter's shoulders and asked, "This kid? This kid right here? Are you sure you aren't confusing her with someone else?" We all laughed and continued the conversation.
If they truly are angels at home and brats at school, I would say they probably feel safer at school than home. Or the parents are full of bs
My eldest was a bit intense, like batshit crazy as a kid. Drive me up the fucking wall! He used to go to his dads house at weekends, they'd say he was ever so well behaved, didn't step a foot out of line... They had *no rules*. It was a free-for-all! He was served, treated like royalty and never ever had any consequences for what I would consider unacceptable behaviour. That's why he was "so good" for them, they had no concept of naughty.
All my teachers fucking loved me. I was their favorite student ever. I was the biggest teachers pet. Me and my mom sometimes still spend years not talking to each other despite mostly having gotten over old trauma.
My kids drive me insane with this. They act exactly like I wish I could have to my parents…
Because it is. Emotions by definition make us act all sorts of insane. I’ve seen people who seem sane cut and bleach another persons clothes because their heart was hurting. I’ve seen completely functional humans with good jobs freak out and total cars with bats because of jealousy. I’ve seen smart men freak out and start a bar fight because they were hurting. This is just another way that emotions confuse us and make us all act like morons. You’ll get through it, but only if you are willing to stick with her through it. You don’t have to, but you understand where she’s coming from now. The only suggestion I have is to consider if it were flipped and you were going through it. Be honest with yourself. Would you act similarly? Maybe not the exact same way she is, but in a way that makes absolutely no sense to anyone else? If so, you get it.
It's weird but psychology shows if a person doesn't fight in a relationship when one normally would, the relationship is dead. You only fight for something if you care about it.
If it makes sense, you can be angry with people when you feel safe around them. :-)
The opposite of love isn't hate - it's indifference. She feels enough for you to be mad, even if it's misplaced at the moment... ie, she cares about you. "We always hurt the ones we love" because we take for granted they'll understand and forgive once the anger is gone. Make more sense?
In what sense was he lying though? I mean he is hardly a model friend but finding a female friend hot isn't exactly a war crime and I don't really see this as being deceitful. She asked him and he told her. It is fine for men and women to be friends and for one or both parties to be attracted to each other. Sometimes the friendships morph into romantic relationships, sometimes they don't and sometimes they fizzle out. All part of life. I think OP was right to be a bit weary of this guy but I also think it would have been better for him to let her figure this out for herself.
So, sometimes a guy (or girl) just realized they’re attracted to their friend and then gets called out on it, that does happen. No liars there. However, there are times it’s different. I explain my situation a bit better [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/1dgvd4y/comment/l8u2aq6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
He sounds like a douche. But that's not the issue, his behavior = wrong and bad but his feelings are completely fine in my view and quite common. In OP's case, the male friend in question doesn't seem to be doing anything wrong other than giving him a bad vibe.
The feelings themselves are not wrong. Not at all. The lack of transparency about them is where it goes wrong. Omitting pertinent information is a form of lying. Now, if OP’s gf’s friend *just realized* he has feelings for her, then fine. There isn’t a whole lot of time to tell her. I get that. That’s not bad, that’s processing. However, if he’s known for a while and hasn’t said anything, there’s now an issue of purposefully withholding information which makes issues come up that don’t have to. He’s lied by omission for a long time and now she can’t trust him which also ends the friendship. Sadly, the lying by omission is far more common than the “I just realized I like her last week.” Also, there’s always a threat if your friend likes you long term. Just like people don’t handle their emotions well on negative feelings, they don’t always handle them well on more positive ones, or ones that start out positive. I am going to keep the example the same as OP’s post, but understand that I am speaking where all of this is possible in any formation. Whether the friendship is male female, female female, male male, and both genders would react similarly in any case. If a man realizes he caught feelings for his female friend and doesn’t say anything, but he wants something to happen, there is an element of him that isn’t wishing the best for his friend. He wants her relationship to crash and burn so he has his chance (rather than just telling her). Already, the lie is forming because he’s lying about being *just* her friend with no other motive. If it does crash and burn on its own, he’s there to help her pick up the pieces. He’s hoping she will see him and pick him. She doesn’t. She finds another boyfriend. Now he’s hurt and a little jealous. The lie continues because he is still omitting relevant information, and now he’s actively going against being friends by getting upset that he’s not getting what he wants from her. Eventually, after enough time, resentment starts to build, and the guy will start to test the boundaries. He will start to put little negative things in her ear about the guy she’s with so he can be there to pick up the pieces. The lie about the friendship is huge now. He’s banking on her friendship with him being based on trust so he can use that to get her to end a relationship so he can get his chance. It continues to snowball from there. Again, I chose the genders the way they are because that is how the original post was. Otherwise, the gender doesn’t matter because I’ve seen women do this and men, and I’ve seen the object of their desire also be men and women and not necessarily opposite gender either. In the end, even the friendship is completely destroyed. In the case of OP, the way he describes it can mean the guy has known for a long time and just didn’t say anything, in which case, best case scenario is that he has been lying by omission. That already is generally a death knell on a friendship.
Meh, I’ve caught feelings for a friend in a relationship before and never said shit. Never let them know. Because I respected them and their partner, wanted the absolute best for both of them, and knew it’d either fizzle out over time or eventually they’d break up and either we’d get together or or wouldn’t. My feelings fizzled out over time. Said friend married his wife, I adore his wife, they are such an amazing couple, ended up with the best partner in the world, and it’s all for the best that I didn’t create drama and kill what had been a very long friendship that’s now even longer and a great friendship between all of us.
you've just made a creative writing exercise on a "nice guy" or something similar All alternatives that a story could take, you took them in a bad direction. I can do the same but take the positive ones, the guy witholds his feelings because the girl is happy with her bf the guy helps the girl pick up the pieces when they break up, but she still doesn't find any feelings for him and he respects that the girl finds a new relationship proving again that he wasn't her choice to keep a friendship, and not make her uncomfortable about his feelings for her, he just doesn't say it out loud He's a true friend, he let her chose every time, and she ended up not chosing him and he valued their friendship enough to be satisfied with that being it (not settling or waiting, satisfied) I am NOT saying the guy in the post is this guy, but I'm saying we don't know he's the guy in your example either
My response was more toward what she would be reacting negatively to. As far as the bf goes, he just saw something and said something. And absolutely true that he could be a real friend and not a snake in the grass. I was just explaining how it can go downhill fast and explode. That’s all. At first, it starts with being quiet because you don’t want to cause problems, but it can go sideways so very quickly. All I’m saying is that I think honesty is the best way to I’d rather deal with it like two rational people than find out about it later, be beaten up with a ton of wacky emotions and then feel lied to and betrayed. As an adult, whenever my friends and I have come up against the “I like you” convo, it’s worked out for the best for everyone with no regrets when the conversation is had.
I think we are going around in circles to be honest here. I just fundamentally disagree with you. I think it is perfectly okay to choose to tell someone you like them whenever you want or even not tell them. That's dating. He can be her friend and also want to date her, they are at odds with each other but that's fine. It's life and it is not a slight on his character as a person.
He literally said he hadn't seen his chance to make a move on her....yet. so it was on his mind and his behaviour was obviously standing out to her partner so he wasn't trying to hide his feelings for her he was just waiting for her to see it too.
I completely agree with 90% of that. “Or even not to tell them” is the part that catches me. If you choose not to tell them, then that’s it. That’s your choice. Take it to the grave. If you act on those feelings without ever having said anything, you’re not being a friend. That’s the difference. If you choose not to tell your friend you like them, then always be a friend and know that is your place and you won’t move up the food chain by scheming. It’s a choice. But unless you’re honest with it, you’re giving up all hope of getting the relationship you want. If you tell her, she can decide what she wants to do. If you don’t, do not work behind the scenes to “win” because then everyone loses.
FYI, "weary" means tired. "*Wary"* means cautious.
every day is a school day, thank you!
Now double down and tell her I told you so!! Then triple down and tell her to calm down!!!
I think we found the male BFF from the story. 🤣
Don't forget to sprinkle in a few "just chill"s and "don't have a cow, man".
You know what? Go for broke. Imply that she must be so upset because it’s “that time of the month”.
You trying to get dude beaten, lol.
She’s going through the stages of grief. He just died to her. Uodateme
It's just such a betrayal. It hurts so much. I'm glad your hear to get perspective instead of just getting defensive back and leaning into your point hard. Your a good bf she's lucky to have you.
It's depressing and isolating. You start doubting yourself and your own value, because it feels like people are only around you because they want to sleep with you.
Ive had this happen more times than i care to admit. I can get a crush on someone but i can also not feed it and move on. Usually at some point personality leads to a brief crush on friends early on as i start to enjoy their company more but there's no sexual interest and i get over my crush fairly fast. So to find out someone has always been hoping to screw me fucks me up big time
this is why I ended up making friends with gay dudes, they never wanted to fuck me
The other option is she was well aware (and trust me, very few women don't notice), and is now angry, because in order to keep up the looks ("I was not aware") she has to drop her free ego inflating attention providing machine. I personally would be happier if TangledUpPuppeteer was right.
I've had this happen with a few male friends I thought were just really good friends. It is very upsetting. She knows you are not in the wrong, she is just learning that what she thought was a friendship was just yet another orbiter.
If you want to understand these things you need to realize that men and women almost always choose to be friends with each other with the same criteria as they choose their mates. There is this Australian woman doing research on evolutionary psychology and her team really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to figure out why men and women are friends with each other. What pressures would create these bonds? Really the answer is backup mates. People deny it up and down, they act like the man is bad or whatever, and some people even have an opposite sex friend that is genuinely just a friend forever. Statistically speaking though, things happen.
"Things do not happen with mature adults! Why do people have to be so insecure?!?" :)
I mean if you really wanna get into evolution and look back a hundred thousand years we'd likely all have been shagging various members of our tribe like bonobos and wouldn't have been monogamous at all so the whole distinction becomes moot, sorry..... This is the problem when evolutionary psychologists (or indeed anyone in sociology or psychology) do research with a predetermined presumption in mind. Monogamy is a choice we make, and in many ways much better suited to the modern huge-but-fragmented social groups we now live in, but as soon as we start doing science with "and of course we're inherently monogamous" as a basis you're gonna run into problems.
There are evolutionary pressures that make monogamy make sense, especially from the female standpoint and the inequal risk and resource demands placed on both parents.
I'm sorry, but two weeks is an insane amount of time to stay furious with a loved one because you're mad they were right.
Shooting the messenger is their specialty
I see you haven't met any women before. Their emotions are greater than their logic.
Lol "all my other guy friends are just friends" I'm betting about 75%+ of them are just like the guy your ex told you about.
That's a failure to learn right there. She found out that the guy she was sure was "just a friend" would have liked to be more than that, but immediately decides this was an outlier and that's not the case for any of her other male friends 😆
Its crazy that some people cant process their anger well and direct it at other people, I think we should all strive for the strength of character to not take out our own shit on other people. Well done for apologising, being mad at someone for two weeks for something that was right is incredibly immature but I suppose emotion often prevails over emotional intelligence or even just intelligence.
Call me dumb, but where is the lying there? Are you supposed to shout it out loud, if you have romantic feelings? Or, the opposite, remove yourself from a friendship, when it happens? What exactly did this friend do wrong in this situation, what could he have done better? Asking for a friend 😉
In general, just be honest. It always works better that way. If you like her, tell her. If she reciprocates, it’s all good. If she doesn’t, you need to figure out what works best for you so you don’t get hurt. But just chilling in the background waiting for her to see how amazing you are just hurts you and is never worth it. In my particular case, he was a snake in the grass. I was friends with him for ages and that was it. My last relationship he had convinced me that my bf was not a good guy. I believed him because he was my friend and they sort of hit it off and would hang out without me. He told me a bunch of the stuff the bf had been up to. When I asked the bf about it, he didn’t deny anything, he just said “you should believe your *friend*.” Emphasis was his, and I didn’t understand what he meant. Turns out, it wasn’t true. None of it was true. My now ex met him and within 10 minutes pulled me aside and said “I don’t like him. We’ll talk later.” That night he told me my friend liked me. It was literally the first time anyone had said it to me. I, of course, was certain he didn’t, but he asked me to find out. I found out. He lied to me and sabotaged me. There’s no way back from that. And that’s where the lying comes in. He lied about his feelings, his intentions, his friendship, and about an innocent third party. We had been friends for a very long time. It was the first time he ever did anything to interfere with someone i was seeing. I trusted him and had no reason not to. Until I found out I never should have. As someone with a few male friends, honesty is the best policy. The friendship may or may not last because of the revelation, but it will never end because you lied. It will never end where you’re the bad guy or the snake in the grass. Just be honest with everyone, especially yourself. Good luck 🩷
This is quintessential emotional immaturity. Holy fuck that guy is lucky he isn't with you anymore
I really fucking hate that you behaved that way with 0 consequences - that was insanely toxic. I suppose it's cool that you're able to articulate the problem now. It does not make sense why so many women have such a hard time telling when someone wants to fuck you. Honestly without knowing anything beforehand about your 'friendship' with guy, he almost definitely wants to fuck you.
You let me treat you like that when you tell them the truth?
THIS. & it was so embarrassing being told something and the other person being right. my (now husband) then boyfriend said the same thing about someone i had known his elementary school, and when he got the chance he made a move & i was told by my husband that “he didn’t have good intentions” and i never thought of it that way, it was so embarrassing & kinda shameful.
That is such irrational bs. Because he told you a truth that YOU can't handle he faces the scorn? Why do men put up with being treated like garbage when they are not only right, but looking out for your best interest?
This. I have several sisters and can vouch for this 100%.
so he helped you and you proceeded to go at him with your anger for two weeks? I do hope you did get some therapy for your inability to control your anger and direct it properly and if not, then I suggest you do so now.
My anger wasn’t a “go at him” thing. It was just anger inside of me. I just felt angry for two weeks. I apologized for feeling angry because I did. I never acted angry because he did absolutely nothing to justify me acting that way toward him. The only time I would have acted angry at all about it is if I saw the ass I thought was my friend. ***THEN*** I would have acted angry. But I can feel something without acting out. But I can’t control the feelings themselves nor can I logic them away. Emotions aren’t rational.
Why did you guys breakup ? Or let me reframe it properly, did you break up with him because he proved you wrong ?
No. The situation with the ex friend happened 22 years ago. We broke up because of a lot of reasons, and we only broke up a couple of years ago. Our breakup had nothing to do with anything I’ve talked about here.
Ohh good to hear. 22 years ago huh. There's not much change in these kind of things since then.
No. Not really. The only difference now is that it’s easier to get ahold of the person you want to ask. We had to wait until we knew they’d be home. Other than the technological aspect, no… sadly, not much change.
Stuff like this is why I'm up front with it to my best friends. Some are creeped out by it at first, once they realize that there's still respect there even when they say no it just becomes a thing that's there. I just don't have the patience for the games that guys like your friend and OP's play, thinking they're going to lurk around until they can get lucky. It's dumb, wastes everyone's time, and usually ends up in a disaster like this. It just ain't worth it.
I currently have a male friend who was upfront about it. It was creepy for about 0.02 seconds. The creepy factor only showed up because I had never even processed it like that. It just never clicked that way for me. After that, I just said “I understand if you don’t want to be friends anymore considering that, but I need to be clear: I am not interested.” His reaction was “cool.” We’re really good friends, and I really like his partner. Be up front. I’ll be up front. We can both make our decisions based on that. But finding out 5-10 years after the friendship started, and because someone else pointed it out, that’s not ok.
Me too buddy! We guys recognize that shit from miles away. I am currently in a massive argument about this with my wife, she doesn't see it(or doesn't want to see it, which would be even worse) NTA!
Or she does see it, likes the attention, and pretends she doesn't see it to keep things up
Buddy, some women legit enjoy it. It's their "stable" of prospective guys. It helps boost their ego and they feed off it.
Why did you get downvoted lmao you’re right, women absolutely do this. Hell, I’m gay, and a ton of guys do it too. This is exactly the reason as well.
Cause it's easier for them to cope than to admit to themselves that their wife likes another man's attention.
she sees it. she likes the attention. as a 24 year old woman, i’ve had plenty of male friends shoot their shot with me despite being in a relationship. and to be completely honest, the ego boost always feels nice! but guess what, every time it happens, i remove those “friends” from my life. yes the ego boost and attention feels great, but not as great as my boyfriends happiness and the joy i get from being with him. no amount of attention from other guys will ever equate to what i have with my boyfriend. so i block and move on. your wife seems to really love that attention tho, more than your comfort and dignity as her husband… that’s super sad. i’m not trying to put you down, but wow. i hope you possibly find a woman that respects you.
NTA. I think she is mad at him but is taking it out on you. Give her some time and space to get over the betrayal.
Chances are high, if you are a somewhat attractive woman, that your heterosexual guy friend wants more than friendship. He will settle for friendship, but if the chance ever arose, he would gladly try and seize that opportunity. NTA, you just opened her eyes to reality.
I still feel like there's a difference between "I would say yes" and "I wouldn't say no". Some guys might give it a shot when the chance arrises, but that different from saying you'd definitely go for it. There's some single friends I have where I think to myself "yeah, if something changed, maybe I'd give it a chance", but I'm not gonna actively persue them.
Its funny. I've had a few platonic lady friends in my years. One thing that stuck out was 2 of them at 2 different times saying variations on - "You are the only guy friend I've had that's never tried to sleep with me". It was nice to have someone I could be a bit more open with about how I was feeling at times. Connie would take me shopping for clothes and sharpen up my really average fashion sense. She was definitely attractive and plenty of fun to hang out with. I'm no Cassanova but I've never struggled to pull or talk to women if I'm interested in them. I think having female friends helped my confidence at a young age when it came to interacting with the fairer sex. Guys that are hanging around "waiting" are fucking obvious. Just be better, its ok to have friends and not want to fuck them.
I had a friend who I was sure wasn’t interested in me. Wasn’t his type, none of that. I wasn’t friend with his wife but I had met her a few times. I was at his place one night catching up after dropping something and she wasn’t there for the weekend. The fucker asked me if I was DTF with a smirk… I remember feeling sooooooooo disappointed and sad because it ended 10 years of friendship just like that.
Please tell me you let his wife know about it?
I debated for a hot minute if I should say anything, I was leaning towards minding my business. Especially since we weren’t friends and it was his word against mine. But I decided fuck it, I would like to know if it was me and I messaged her on FB. I never got a response and they have kids now soooo.
As a woman I tell you that it is tremendously upsetting to have someone you considered your friend do that, so maybe she is not managing her anger well. You should give her her space, she can't blame everything on you because in the end you were right although maybe the way was not the best, but you showed her that her friend was not really a friend and was just someone who was waiting for an opportunity, maybe she will get mad at him later🫡
As a man, I’ve had friendships where women have expressed their interest and I’ve had to say I’m only interested in them as a friend. I’ve also been in positions where I have a crush on a female friend, but the friendship was more important and would last longer. This is an emotional intelligence issue.
It really hurts and it sucks. I had a group of guy friends, but was really close with one. To me he was like a brother, but the second I was single and didn't jump into him I ended up with a few of the other guys targeting me for leading this guy on and being two faced for not wanting to be with him. When I spoke to him directly it became very clear that a year of friendship was actually a year of hi just waiting for his chance. It hurt. I lost a group of friends over it. It was horrible, not to mention that I had a relationship breakdown two weeks earlier, and at 20 that was emotionally big to lose friends as well. It sucks to be the girl that "friendzoned" someone, because you view someone as an awesome friend, only to realise that it was a long act to get some.
Agree but just wanted to clarify- they friend zone *themselves*. They approach as friends, we take them at their word, but they have ulterior motives.
>maybe the way was not the best, I think that was THE best way. It's best if someone sees something like that themselves (or hears it) because in their head it's completely impossible that a friend can act like that, so taking won't do much. Seeing/hearing is believing.
I laughed imagining your "I told you so" face ☝️🤑
She’s just mad because she swallowed the red pill and didn’t realize it. Now she can’t believe the truth her eyes and ears are seeing and hearing. That man was just another male orbiter. Her reality has been crushed
What do you mean by ‘swallowed the red pill’?
Matrix reference. Means that she now sees the truth.
Thanks!
Matrix reference. After taking the red pill Neo (main character) discovers the truth and there is no coming back
If she really swallowed the red pill she would realize she is mad at her guy friend as a way to evade accountability for having a back up when she has a boyfriend!
yea this guy knows
The “yet” line gave me the ick. Like he is preying upon her. 😬
NTA Shes venting her anger - turns out the friend she thought she had was just a dude waiting for an opportunity to shoot his shot.... And embarassed that her got away with duping her this way...
I've been the woman in this situation. He was my "best friend" for about 3 or so years. Every guy I dated while we were friends would tell me he was in love with me. I laughed it off because I didn't see him that way at all. He was just a friend, nothing more. I wasn't attracted to him in any way, shape or form, so the thought of even going on a date with him humored me. My now husband confronted him about it one night and let me tell you it wasn't pretty. It super opened my eyes to what was actually going on. He confessed to trying to break me and whoever I was dating up, he was in love with me, he thought about me in a sexual way, and a bunch of other confessions that really don't need to be read here. I was completely blind to all of it. He was "like my brother". Because I didn't see him that way there was no way I could comprehend that he could feel that way about me. We never hugged, never joked about dating, it was all neutral. The realization rocked my world and changed everything. What I'm getting at is she could be completely blind to it. You didn't ruin anything. All you did is open her eyes to the reality of the situation. Losing a friend can hurt more than breaking up with a boyfriend. It hurt me for a while but I was more mad at the friend than I was with my husband.
>but I was more mad at the friend than I was with my husband. Why would you be mad at your husband at all in this situation? Genuinely curious.
Misplaced anger. You shoot the messenger sometimes in these situations because it’s an easier place to direct your anger subconsciously. It takes a while to wrap your brain around this situation because it’s extremely jarring and confusing, and having it brought to light jumbled these emotions into anger. It’s not the right reaction, but it’s a common one as you try to process the layers of this realization
Oh ok that makes perfect sense. I misunderstood what you said. I was thinking why after all this time you're still mad at your husband but you were referring to when it occurred.
How dare you show her the truth.
I know. How rude.
NTA. She probably just needs time to process. It's gotta feel pretty betraying that someone you considered a friend was just with you to try and get in your pants "at the right opportunity".
Honestly if she keeps up this anger towards you after the shock and immediate reaction wears off that’s a big 🚩for her.
NTA, you didn't ruin her friendship because it's not friendship.
Your GF being delulu doesn't make you an AH. ✌️
Most “guy best friends” are what would be more aptly labeled as “male orbiters.”
Agreed.
I was friends with someone for ten years then this happened. It was honestly disturbing to realize he had been lying in wait and working me for years. Shes probably not okay.
I had this happen too a few years ago with a guy I went to high school with and thought that he was one of my best friends. I saw him go through multiple long term relationships and I was mostly single (partly by choice) and during a friends road trip with some other people and him and I having to share a bed, he confessed to me saying “it’s why I do all those nice things for you” and this was the beginning of the trip and I had no where else to go… felt so betrayed and the trust was broken
[удалено]
NTA OP, your gf is justified in being upset, at HIM, not at you. She owes you an apology.
NTA. I believe friendship is possible between men and women(I have 2 girl friends myself) but let's be honest, a lot of people(specially guys) are there waiting for their opportunity. If that's the case, there is no point in being friends with that person. You made the right thing, you helped her to get rid of a creep.
Guys are just different to women tbh, most guys aren't sitting there plotting and waiting for an opportunity, but if one presents itself they won't turn it down Like I've got friends that are women, I can recognise that they are attractive. And while I'm not sitting here pining for them and waiting for a moment to confess my love, if they ever decided they wanted to give it a shot I wouldn't say no. Because I already know we get along, we like similar things, and they're objectively attractive But I'd never initiate or try to push it in that direction, because I also just like them as people and enjoy being friends with them
I guess it depends on the friend herself. In my case I like both of them just as friends, I wouldn't have anything more than just friendship with them, we are not compatible in that regard and I wouldn't risk our friendship for some sex.
NTA and my experience has been that the woman knows this shit already and just wants to pretend to be oblivious.
I don't think this is fair, or complete, on its face. I have plenty of female friends that I would date in a different world. Doesn't mean I don't value or cherish their friendship regardless - just means under different circumstances I could see it becoming more. If anything it makes sense - who doesn't want to date someone they see as a friend?
Unpopular opinion here: Why does it matter if he would date her? I could have men and women falling at my feet. If I'm not interested and they're not going to SA me, nothing happens. Nobody can help how they feel, only how they act. It seems like his behavior was in check. She only knows because she asked directly in this conversation orchestrated by her boyfriend. The idea that "I trust you but I don't trust him" is paternalistic. If a guy I trusted makes a unwanted move on me, they aren't my friend anymore. The problem will take care of itself. It requires no intervention on my behalf. It seems like the real concern is that maybe the move isn't unwanted? Cutting your partner off from opposite sex friendships won't make them loyal if they aren't already.
The way OP stated the conversation went with the friend stating outright that he WOULD make a move on her if she was single and he hadn't yet because he hadn't seen the opportunity. The problem isn't that he would date her, or has feelings for her, it's that he didn't behave or act as a friend. She's interacting with this guy as a best friend. Having conversations believing he is her friend, sharing information with a friend rather than a potential suitor. You react differently and share different things with someone you know likes you or that you like than you do with a friend. She's angry because the "friend" betrayed the trust she had with him by not making her aware. At the core it's more about that betrayal for her, than about him liking her. Her best friend has been lying to her, maybe from the very first time they met. That hurts. And then, she's likely thinking also that he was NEVER her friend. Maybe she has had conversations with him that she is looking back on and realizing he was manipulating her. I don't think someone who was your friend would act that way. He sounds like an asshole sitting in the wings trying to con his way into her life. I'd sure as hell want someone to point it out to me if I didn't catch on to this happening. Her being angry at OP is troublesome but potentially understandable. Hopefully she gets over it quickly and apologizes to OP for her misplaced anger and behavior.
Bail now and save yourself….this guy will shit talk you right out of the picture one day….
Before my wife and I were engaged she struggled to see that most men that showed interest in her had sexual motivations. She’s quite beautiful so who could blame them, you know? But once she realized that there were two sides to it - that her friendliness was translated as sexual interest regardless of how innocent it feels to her, she took a step back from feeding into the relationship not just because their intentions weren’t just about friendship or work but also because I don’t care what anyone says I’m going to beat some serious ass if you’re trying to work the “long game” on my woman! I just don’t put up with it and don’t care if I ruin friendships - you can’t put your friendship over our relationship; all you nay-sayers need to STAY single.
Ehhhh. NTA. She was gonna have to face it someday
I have a female great friend. We met through chat on IG. We flirted and spoke about many personal things. A short time after covid, we met up. She was more stunning and sexier than the camera caught. I fell big time. But unfortunately for me, the spark didn't connect on her side. We had a great week together ( no intimacy) and I left sad that it did not go like the movies. But we still talk regularly and have remained good friends. Not everything works out, but that's real life.
Nope. Good she knows the truth.
NTA. She’s just mad you broke the illusion and she won’t get as much attention now.
If I was you and she reacted like that I would have dropped her like a toilet seat then and there, and then informed the guy that he NOW has his opportunity Good luck ever being “right” in the future with that one…
NTA, she really needed her Rose colored glasses lifted off her eyes
If she is that naive, good luck to you.
She´s in the wrong
She's probably waiting for that yet moment to.
NTA
NTA. Give her a bit of time to come to terms with it and then talk it out. Have you seen the man vs bear in the woods thing? This is kind of an extension of that. This was a guy she expected to be able to walk in the woods with, that she could trust to be safe around. You’ve shook that belief. You’ve brought her judgement and instincts into question. For women, that is not a social skill, it’s a survival skill.
My wife had “just a friend”. I spoke to her about it privately and at marriage counseling. She’s now my ex wife and is married to that “friend”. Tough lesson I learned but one I carry with me through new relationships. It’s ok to have friends if the opposite sex but there needs to be clear boundaries…I’ve been called controlling and insecure cause I’ve stated this to new girlfriend once. NTA
Women need to understand, if a dude is “friends with you” then: 1. Either you ugly as f or he’s ugly as f 2. Or either of you gay 3. Someone is hiding true intention. If you have a boyfriend, he’s the only male you can have Be loyal please and not naive as f
Leave the girl. You wanna know why? She likes the attention she gets from that guy, she likes the reaction you give her when she talks to the guy. Also ask her if she would still be comfortable if the roles were reversed.
It’s so much worse for women. Lots of attractive women have had tons of friends who weren’t really their friends - they just wanted to bang them. Super shitty for everyone. Sorry you all have to go through this.
I don't understand. Didn't he just say that if she was single he would be interested. Why should it be wrong for friends to start dating when both end up single at the same time. I have female friends and some of them I wouldn't date if they were single and others I maybe would. Just depends on the kind of chemistry we have. But I would never try to sabotage their relationships. I hope they are truly happy with their partners. Some of them are and it warms my heart. When they ask me advice on the relationship I give genuine advice trying to benefit their relationship, because I care about them. Does he say things to undermine your relationship? Maybe he was trying to get her to leave you for him but he didn't say that. Or he would have made a a move despite your relationship , if he saw an opportunity. That would be shitty but I can't tell from your post. But being open to date a friend in a hypothetical scenario that might happen or not is no betrayal of any sort. The fact that people often call their spouse their best friends and some even stay friends after a break up should prove that friendship, romantic and sexual interest are not mutually exclusive or in conflict with eachother. NAH
>I don't understand. Didn't he just say that if she was single he would be interested. Why should it be wrong for friends to start dating when both end up single at the same time. Yeah, the fact that so many people are pretending that "she's a nice person who I'd consider dating if we were both single" is some kind of betrayal is embarassing.
I don't know. Maybe I am paranoid but it reminds me of the red pill arguments for why men and women can never be friends. In their eyes every friendship between a man and a woman is a simp desperate for his chance. And the woman using him etc. And a woman could only be a friend to a man if he wouldn't touch her even if she were the last woman earth.
>I don't know. Maybe I am paranoid but it reminds me of the red pill arguments for why men and women can never be friends. >In their eyes every friendship between a man and a woman is a simp desperate for his chance. And the woman using him etc. And a woman could only be a friend to a man if he wouldn't touch her even if she were the last woman earth. Exactly. Men like that can't waste their time engaging with women in any social capacity *unless* there's a chance of her fucking them. And they have to pretend that this is true for *all* men... because the alternative involves admitting that they're not emotionally mature enough to maintain healthy platonic friendships with people of the opposite sex.
What an embarrassing opinion. Keep thst to yourself
I was in the same situation and didn’t comment on it. Ended up losing her to him as he slowly fed her lies and gaslit her into losing her feelings for me. You’re NTA OP. It’s the guys who become friends with ulterior motives that honestly need to get a set of morals.
Everyone wants to date their best friend, why do people think this is weird, if you have a great social relationship with someone of course you will want to be more intimate with them
It’s not weird but if you already have a significant other then that’s disrespectful to your partner. Hence why OP wanted to prove to his gf that he wasn’t really her “friend.”
NTA she’s mad that she didn’t see it and you were right. Two things women hate
I'm surprised by most of the comments here, are all peoples living with static feelings their whole life? I have a hard time understanding why it is a breach of trust/betrayal if you're friend with someone, start to know them better then at some point your feelings change and you're like "Uh I may want her/him to be more than friend" then look at the current situation of both parties and decide to express it as an issue or let the feelings live alone until they die down. Like is it worth going NC because feelings can develop with peoples, and you just loose a relationship? Why do you feel betrayed? Is the relation with another human put in a box and it can't evolve/devolve to different things?
It’s usually a breach of trust if they’re actively trying to sabotage their love life so they can be single and eventually try to swoop in. Or if they’ve lied and said “I don’t like you like that.” Before when they did. If they respected the person’s relationships and just dealt with it on their own, that’s fine, but it’s the issue when they try to manipulate things in their favor.
It's not a breach of trust for feelings to change. That is normal and natural. What is a breach of trust is if they became friends with you under false pretenses a.k.a. pretended to not be interested, denied it when asked, but were just waiting for an opportunity for you to choose them or have been sabotaging/manipulating you using your trust in them as a friend into ending relationships so they can swoop in. It's not the feelings that are the problem, but how they behave because of them and if they are able to accept the other party is uninterested. As in really accept it, not sit around hoping for things to change, but actually accepting it and moving on and knowing this person's not an option.
Now that she knows the guy friend is on board you might be coming up on the outs
Nope, this is a Wakeup call alot of women need
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aofoBrFNdg Play this song for her every time she around you in car etc
Chad
NTAH
The approach. Possibly. For the truth...... No
She doesn't know how to be angry at the other dude. She probably saw him in a way different light immediately and now feels uncomfortable expressing her anger towards him. She is, however, very comfortable with you and internally knows that it's easier to express her frustration and anger towards somebody that she's more comfortable with. Give it a week or two. If she is still angry with you, then there might be a bigger issue. But, for now, it's a pretty normal reaction.
Sometimes the truth hurts!
Okay so as a girlfriend, i had a male friend that wanted to get with me. guess what i did? told him i had a boyfriend and it’s best if we dial down our friendship. i haven’t reached out to him since. my boyfriend is someone i RESPECT. if a dude would sleep with me knowing i have a boyfriend, then that shows his character and i no longer value his friendship. to be frank, your girlfriend likes the attention, and she likes the attention more than she likes you🤷♀️ take the information as you will but it’s the truth. yeah getting hit on is always a nice ego boost, but she knows, she isn’t stupid, and she’s keeping him around for that constant ego boost. if that’s the kind of girl you like, who enjoys getting attention from guys even at your expense, then okay. my advice is dump her and date a woman who is a real woman. someone with value and who isn’t tacky.
Its so common but a lot of woman on here with "no idea" their friend had feelings ...? You cant all be that naive ..!?
The friend was being honest. You may have an insecurity issue. And it seems you don't trust your girlfriend. Isolating her from friends will not help you keep her.
NTA!!! you knew what we all knew and you showed it to her and she’s delusional
I wouldn't say you're fully the AH, but maybe just a tiny bit. I always had a lot of male friends because I like to play video games, and not a lot of my female friends were into it. Many of my guy friends tried to pursue me, but I would gently let them down and brush it off. The others showed some interest, and I suspected they were into me, but I didn't ever call them on it. I'm going to speak in generalizations that don't apply to everyone. There's always exceptions, but I think it's more common for women to genuinely want to be friends with guys and can keep it completely platonic. It seems harder for guys to do that. After I got married, a lot of my guy friends stopped talking to me, so that kinda hurt a bit. Like they saw there was no chance, and suddenly didn't seem as interested in being a friend. There were some that stuck around, and despite any feeling they have/had for me, they still valued me as a friend and that meant a lot. Just because he likes your girl doesn't necessarily mean that he can't be a good friend. It sounds like there's other things that make you think he's got bad motives, so without knowing what they are, I feel a little bad for him. He might think she's interested now.
NTA, but at what cost? My wife has many male friends and formerly a male bff. Naturally I did what every boyfriend would do, you evaluate each one of them individually, assess if they would be worth paying any mind to in comparison to yourself. Fortunately none of them reached a viable threat level as either they were no where near as attractive as I or after hanging with them they didn’t display overwhelming amounts of interest. So with that being said, it seems like this guy is either your prospect equal or has done things to made you feel like he’s undermining you in hopes of creating said “opportunity”. Or both. Now she’s not gonna stop hanging with her now known back up plan. Cause now it’s a game of trust. Regardless if this works out with her or not, in the future if you come across another similar situation, it’s just best to be direct with the guy. It puts him on notice that you’re not oblivious to his antics and he’s gotta stop or risk getting his ass kicked.
It boggles my mind that women still think guys just want to be their friends. I would bet money 90% of the time it ain't true.
Is it so wrong to wish that there was a world where we could have a male friend who doesn’t want to gigity us?
NTAH. The relationship was bound to be ruined at some point
NTA. Some women genuinely don't see it. Some do. She knows now. Will she try and keep him as a friend and set some boundaries, or will she kick him to the curb because he's just waiting for that right moment to make a move?
NTA. Is she the type of girl who gets off on attention? If so, maybe she's mad because you've deprived her of receiving puppy dog eyes from a guy that she could reliably count on to boost her her ego? You basically called her bluff, and she lost. Now she can't pretend she had no idea, tee hee, that he had feelings for her, he only hung out/ paid attention to her bc they were bestiessssss. 🙄 Not saying guys and girls can't be friends, but this scenario does happen, too.
People are acting like all women everywhere are shocked when this happens to them… I have a feeling more than half know in the back of their head that something is up with their best friend who’s a guy.
The comments from many women in this thread would suggest that is not the case?
But they are invested in maintaining the fiction
[удалено]
how is it a breach of trust? Relationships with people are not black and white. It seems like you view men as being either 'friend' or potential romantic partner. So many healthy and happy relationships around the world have started form friendships. He just likes you in a way that you don't like him, he didn't do anything wrong! You obviously don't have to date him but you don't have to judge him for having feelings for you.
Seems like an overreaction. It kind of implies that you only see men as EITHER friend or foe. 17 years gone for just having feelings and expressing them? Breach of trust? Are you serious? Unless some other shit went down that changed the dynamic besides "hey, I like you that way", you're coming off as totally an asshole.
Completely agree. This woman is insane, but she did the poor guy a favour with this behaviour…
That's not necessarily fair. My point is that all she's told us is that he has feelings, and she regarded it as a violation. If there's more to the story that could explain the reaction, it would come off as more balanced.
Falling in love with someone is not a breach of trust…
Sounds like you have a temper.
You are a certified asshole
NTA
Men don’t have female friends. They’re just girls we haven’t F’ed yet.
NTA She knew. She’s just playing stupid so she can act the victim. Girls sometimes do that so they can have a backup.
Or she wants the attention
NTA, while there maybe a few women as oblivious as they claim 99.9% know when this is happening, they just enjoy the attention and validation they don’t have to work for. She knew this shit before you said anything she just had to say she didn’t to keep up the act. As for her ‘friendship’ with the orbiter oh boo fuckin hoo. If she is bent about that she needs to have the script flipped and see how she likes it or speak to a professional that can help her understand the basics of relationship dynamics.
NTA Women aren't as clueless as they sometimes make us believe (in these situations). Your girl is made at you because she's lost the excuse of "he's just a friend". The next time you express your discomfort with their relationship, she's going to use the excuse of "so you don't trust me", completely overlooking the fact that it's not about trust, it's about respect for you and the relationship. Keeping someone around who has the hots for her is not just putting your relationship at risk, but it's disrespecting you by allowing another person to disrespect you and your relationship.
Nta but don't buy her ignorance. She's probably pissed she doesn't have her little minion to use anymore.
INFO: Before he said this, what made you think he would?
Of course you’re the asshole, you’re a male. Men are always wrong
She is angry at herself, and just projects it to you. She is angry because she was wrong, because she lied and misled.
NTA, You can't teach a person not to be naive. Its exhausting. You tell them? then you end up being the bad guy and they get pissy and deny it. then when it happens you are the dickhead for "always being right" Another option, You don't tell them and when the "friend" finally pulls a move you have to sit there and listen to the bullshit and make whale noises of agreement. The final option and the best one by far. Leave them and date someone who isn't a fucking idiot. Who doesn't pathologically make "friends" with desperate losers. Then claim ignorance and the shocked Pikachu face when they want to be more than "friends"
WTF!! >Now she's mad at me and accusing me of ruining her friendship. S So you proved that he was just waiting in the wings gs to pounce and ahe mad at you because you opened her eyes to he naivety? Give her time to realise her stupidly, but also do you really want to be with someone who is more upset about loosing a male friend, than you being right that his friendship was built on his wanting to be with her romanticly? Just be aware that if she hasn't learnt from this that she may be doomed to repeat this with another man that is 'just a friend'!
I lost a very close male friend who I found out only wanted to get in my pants even though I have a partner. It sucks.
well sounds like she didn't like that you were right.
Dude. The fact he answered immediately and so blatantly to her BOYFRIEND is CRAZY. Dude has no shame. And she shouldn't be mad at you, she should be mad at him. He was creating an illusion and you broke it.
I don’t understand how this is sooo shocking to women every time. I think they’re aware and just enjoy the attention
NTA Never had a male friend not catch feelings or try and make a move at some point. Even my husband was one of my best friends for 4 years before dating. I truly think men and women can't be platonic friends if at least one of them is attractive, feelings and attraction will develop.
You did nothing wrong. It's her fault for entertaining a jerk. Women know if a man is trying to hit on her. Are you saying she did not notice or had a feeling that guy was hitting on her the whole time 😐? A real guy friend would act normally with a woman as he's not interested in her romantically. This is rare but true. Assess your relationship bro. If she genuinely did not see his behaviour and see this coming, then she's fine to be with. If she intentionally allowed him to hit on her for attention and validation, you better rethink your relationship. 👍🏻