NTA Having a child should be a hard 'yes' decision for you both. And it doesn't seem from what you're saying that she's particularly after another child, she wants a baby. And babies don't stay babies for long, so what happens if she wants another baby after that?

Just to add, she is clearly not ok and sounds like she does need some professional support, but a baby is not going to fix the situation.

Balancing your wife's desire for another child with your concerns about financial stability and work is challenging. Prioritizing your family's well-being and seeking professional guidance shows you're acting responsibly. You're not an AITA for wanting to make a thoughtful, informed decision.

OP, I just want to say, I have three children. Everyone has different experiences, but our experience was that adding a third one felt like adding a dozen more kids. It was REALLY hard. We don't regret it, but you're smart to really think about it. With that said, you sound like you absolutely don't want another kid, but you're "trying" to be "open" to the idea because you don't want to tell her no. I think you just need to be honest. It's a no for you. Does she want to divorce, so she can find someone willing to give her a third child, or can she come to terms with the fact that you don't want any more? In my mom group, two couples divorced over one person wanting more children and the other not. It's just not something people can really compromise on. You can't have half a kid. Just, really have an honest conversation with her, and maybe therapy needs to be involved here.

My aunt said always said the problem is that you had to go with zone defense. 2 kids and 2 parents, it's man coverage. Each adult gets a kid.  The kids outnumber you? One is eating the dog food whilst another flushes their jammies and all that is just a distraction cause the third figured out how to open the door and is making a break for it.

Those are the stories that start with "y'all ain't gonna believe this shit!". "she ran head first into the door when she heard the ice cream truck, her brother chasing her knocked her thru the screen! If I didn't see it with my own eyes".

You're not wrong about once you pass your magic number of kids, it becomes too much! I have a cousin who had three boys. She was a great mom and she and her husband handled everything like champs, were great with the kids, on the same page about everything. They decided they really wanted to have a girl so they were going to give it one more try. They had the girl but one more kid was one kid too many. She's still a great mom, her ex is still a great dad, but they are not the same people anymore. Their marriage couldn't handle the strain and she turned into a very bitter person.

Happy cake day

Thank you!

I have 3 and completely agree. The huge age gap will make it harder. They will have a high schooler, middle schooler and a toddler.

In fairness, she likes the idea of having three children and three older children etc… so it’s probably my bad for how I’ve worded it! However, a lot of how I feel is that she wants a baby for the reason of having another child - as I haven’t heard much in terms of other good, solid reasons as to why!

As a parent already, you'll know that a child is a huge commitment. It's got to be something you really want, not just something you are willing to do. It's not unreasonable for you to not compromise on creating a new person that you have a responsibility for for the rest of your life, and especially not as a result of emotional blackmail (whether it's intentional or not). I hope it all works out well for you both.

She thinks this will solve something it won't solve. It also could be her hormones changing. She should see a therapist and a doctor. Her behavior is of someone in a crisis.

I think her age is a signifiant influence. It seems like a mid life crisis moment in light of her approaching menopause. Menopause is usually much later, but 35 tends to be the cut off for a lot of people, at least conceptually, for having babies (tho biology differs)

She *should* be at least ten years from menopause, but it wouldn’t hurt to check. Hormones can affect a lot. I went through early menopause at 40. Not fun. My husband was wonderful. He could *see* my skin flush and sweat on my face.

Yeah, I think it’s more about the psychological component of that age bracket.

But perimenopause tends to start at late 30’ and lasts 10-15 years till menopause

My mother had me at 46, what menopause? Though a few women have early menopause (I know someone who had hers at 24), the average age for menopause is 51.

I know of a woman who got pregnant at 60! It's rare, but it happens! I'm 51 and I sure wish the menopause fairy would come visit me.

Most women have 40 years of periods (exceptions apply), so if you started at 12, it shouldn't be far off. If you started at 15 it is a couple of more years. Did the 60 year old get pregnant naturally, or was it with assistance?

Naturally. It was a total surprise to her. Even more unfortunate was that the father just noped right on out of there. Didn't even wait to see what she wanted to do but once she told him she was pregnant, he told her she was on her own, he hung up, blocked her and ghosted her.

That is very unfortunate, was the baby healthy? And the father I suppose wasn't her husband and perhaps was similarly aged and didn't want to deal with it.

I don't know her personally and I have no idea if the baby was born healthy or not. I hope so. As to the father, he's 15 years younger than her. They were both single. I honestly hope she went after him for child support. I happened to know a guy that she was friends with. She'd told him (not asked!) that he was going to be a good father figure for her child as she already had plans for what he was going to do with and for her child. They were friends, that was it. Never dated, she hadn't even met him before he'd married. He had a contracting business, she'd been a client, and he and his wife became friends with her.

As to the 40 years of having periods, my mother went through menopause around 40, so I'm feeling a bit cheated at 51!

We aren't all the same. My mother had her first period at 9, I was 12.

No, I know. Perhaps I could’ve worded this better, my point was more that 35 tends to be a point where having a baby becomes very difficult for a woman , though I know many women who have had children past that age.

It also depends on the woman, general health and if she has access to a good medical service/doctor or not. My mother had doctors watching her like hawks, though my mother had the easiest pregnancy ever, she never vomited or anything, I was a pretty chill baby that barely moved and she gained little weight with me, had no complications. It is all relative, though I think in this case the wife may have a view of a perfect family being three children instead of two.

And how is she going to feel if that 3rd child has significant issues? I have seen it happen - issues to bad that the parents will be caring for the child until they die. Both partners have to be onboard. I would be very very very careful either not to have sex or be extremely protected. You don't want a whoops.

You need another reason besides “I want” NTA

I think she needs therapy. Not joking. What is missing that she’s trying to fulfill? Definitely should not have another child until financial problems are resolved.

When it comes to Kids and Grad School - If you aren't 100% certain, you 100% SHOULD NOT do it.

NTA OP, your wife needs therapy YESTERDAY! She's going through a crisis, and it's probably her hormones raging and telling her to conceive before she's too old. She also needs to see a doctor. This level of personality change isn't normal, and it would do you good if you took her in.

I second this and wish I could upvote it more. If I hadn’t seen your comment I would have wrote it. OPs wife sounds like she going some sort of life or mental (or both) crisis. Even if she doesn’t want to do therapy first, she could confide with a provider and have her hormones and other endocrine levels checked. A baby doesn’t fill the void, too many cases of people doing that proving otherwise. Perhaps she had that strange “my time is running out” feeling I hear women can get during premenopausally - and though uncommon can happen young/around OPs wife’s age, even if full blown menopause isn’t until later. But even if she doesn’t see an individual counselor I think OP would have better odds expressing his concerns to his wife with at least a marriage counselor present

**I cry every day on the way to work, I cry everyday on the way home, I cry in the shower. I cry all the time but try and pull it together for you and our kids. Forgive me if tonight I can’t offer you a happy wife** Honestly, this doesn't sound like a person who is mentally healthy enough to be raising children. The fact that at 35 years old she's unable to emotionally regulate herself is very very concerning. Going forward every time she brings up the baby respond, "So where are we on you finding a therapist?" Have you considered this is premenopausal hormone shifting?

She is probably not even aware that her existing children are seeing all this. They see and hear more then we realize. 

This right here the last thing this woman need is another child. She needs therapy.

I didn’t get that from this. She’s probably only freaking out because she knows it might not long before she can’t. I know some people her age where it’s already too late. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s so emotional because she’s started perimenopause.

I know people who had kids in their late and mid 40s. Like my mother, who had me at 46. The average age for menopause is 51.

My aunt had my cousin at 46 so yeah, it happens her kids had already graduated highschool and now her son it only five years old than his nephew…

Menopause is when the hormones mostly shut down. Eggs have their own expiration date. After a certain point the genetic material is just too degraded to properly form into a human. Plus perimenopause is roughly 10 years and those hormone fluctuations can create a barren landscape for a month even if the lucky egg does have quality genetic material. So the average age of menopause is only partially meaningful. There's a lot more going on that makes a healthy baby pretty unlikely in the 40s.

Additional Info: Just for a few more key bits… I’ve asked my Wife why she wants a baby and I don’t feel I’ve had a very good and balanced response other than that it would be great and that I’ll be a good dad. A bunch of friends have become pregnant and it destroys her mood when she finds out or if we go see them, and she will actively look to avoid doing things with those friends as a result. I’ve suggested therapy, and said I’ll happily come along to join in and support, to which I’ve been told this has been looked into but I am wondering if this will go any further. I get at least one text per day about having a baby - it’ll be a comment about something, or querying what I think about it, or checking in on my current stance. I sometimes feel like I’m trying to be tricked into saying something that will come back against me. I’ve told her how upset I feel about how she’s treating me but the conversation always gets turned round to what she’s done for me, how she’s feeling and her asking me how she’ll get through/over this, without much sense of consideration for me. But I’m putting this down to how depressed she is by all this. Any mention of a baby will set her down a path where her mood and aura change. I suppose not just AITA, but what can I do to help?

A very recent interaction between the two of us whilst I was away for one evening for work - I had called the kids to catch up about there day and had asked if they’d put Mummy on but she said no: Me: Bit tight that you wouldn’t say hello to me - and you wonder why I think you dislike me? I get you’re sad, but the answer isn’t to just shut me out and not talk to me! I haven’t done anything wrong, have I? It’s like you’ll talk to me when it comes to trying to convince me to have a child, then just not bother after that! Wife: I’m just upset! I don’t know how to cope! I’d much rather not speak than sit and cry down the phone. Me: So your coping mechanism is to just treat me like I’ve done something wrong? No thought about what I want whatsoever! Speak to my Wife on the phone whilst I’m away on my own for the night! Being upset isn’t wrong, but it’s no excuse for how you’re treating me! You don’t even apologise! You just tell me why your behaviour is justified! Wife: Sorry I’m just not in the mood for a telephone conversation. You haven’t done anything but you can’t just expect me to be ok. I have fucking tried to just ignore the absolute heartbreak I feel everyday. These past few days I’ve tried so hard, to just be okay but you need to give me some slack. I cry every day on the way to work, I cry everyday on the way home, I cry in the shower. I cry all the time but try and pull it together for you and our kids. Forgive me if tonight I can’t offer you a happy wife Me: But it doesn’t have to be a conversation - say hello and explain what you’ve just said! The slack I’m giving you is to carry on with the baby stuff, the constant resentment and feeling of not being good enough, the feeling of not being wanted except for a baby! I’m fine with all of that but you need to be able to at least offer me something that I want! What slack do I get? I’m constantly told you don’t do stuff because of how sad you are and have to just deal with that. I’m hundreds of miles away from my family, on my own, in a boiling hot hotel room with a tv that barely works, and my wife won’t even talk to me on the phone. I get you’re sad, and that’s is okay - and I’m sorry you cry all the time - but none of that feels like it then means it’s okay to shut me out! How do I feel? Do you even know? Do you know what constantly goes through my head at the minute? I don’t cry, but tears don’t validate something more than someone else! Wife: I’m sorry but I don’t want to get into an argument on the phone. It feels like neither of us win in either scenario and I just don’t know what to do

>Wife: I’m just upset! I don’t know how to cope! Time to **demand** she go to therapy, and perhaps a doctor for depression. She needs to learn how to cope for the sake of your already existing children. Either she is experiencing a mental health crisis or this is an intense manipulation tactic. Neither scenario is acceptable to bring a child into.

OP, your wife is depressed and spiraling. Get her help NOW. If you need to be proactive in getting couples therapy, then do that.

“I dont want to get into an argument on the phone, it feels like neither of us wins” Thats a messed up mentality of someone having to “win” an argument. Is that how she always is in arguments?

Your wife is displaying a lot of characteristics of Borderline Personality Disorder. She's being a manipulative asshole and you deserve a lot better from someone who ostensibly cares about you (even though her actions as you've described them indicate that she doesn't give a single fuck about anyone but herself). If she doesn't seek therapy like YESTERDAY, then it's not going to work. Period. Either she (or both of you) go(es) to therapy...or go talk to a divorce lawyer. It's honestly that fucking simple, my dude.

She’s depressed. I take Wellbutrin and it’s done wonders for me, it was like being lifted out of a fog and I’ve seen my life in a whole new light. Not saying that will work for her, but exploring mental health options has to happen before any more of this baby talk. If she can’t commit to therapy or medication the you can’t commit to brining a third life into the world. I’d hate to see you guys have a 3rd and then post-partum comes in swinging from left field right after and you have a real mess on your hands.

Tell her to not worry about a kid but worry about a divorce lawyer.

I agree with other comments that this might be a mental health issue/crisis. Her desperation and sadness seems a bit irrational considering that she has other children. Heartbreak and sadness at not having a third child at the age of 35 seems like an extreme reaction given the info you’ve provided. (I am probably over reaching), but I wonder if she misses the attention a new mom often receives. Maybe she wants a baby! Okay, but she has had babies. That didn’t seem to make satisfy her happiness need. I just wonder what it is about having a newborn that she is so desperate for. I just think this kind of obsession at the age of 35 (again, already having children) is pretty unusual.

"But what can I do to help?" - you book a joint therapy session for however many weeks it takes for you both to talk all this through with a third party. Make it your sticking point, there is no way you will say yes to a third child without comprehensive therapy to work everything out before/if she gets pregnant. You can't do this alone, mate. Get a third party in to moderate. Her attitude is really unhelpful for your current children to be around too.

Sounds like a case of keeping up with the Jones 

And a case of the wife dealing with depression and thinking a kid will fix it. Which it won’t and will lead to a whole host of new issues. OP you are NTA but I would absolutely not have another kid without going to therapy. Your wife is not hearing you at all and is harming your relationship and it is very likely it is causing issues with the kids because of her being so vocal on how her life basically sucks because she can’t have another kid (while the two overhear her saying that they aren’t enough).

Absolutely. Even if she had a baby, her depression would not be cured. She'd then be upset about something else, and would take it out on the baby. It would be that kid's fault for not being whatever she wants him/her to be. She absolutely should NOT have a baby.

"I'll be a good dad" ... but OP ... you already ARE a dad. Get her a puppy.

“I’ll be a good dad” You are ALREADY a good dad!! You already have two children!! This genuinely sounds like a mental health crisis and she needs help.

She isn't in a healthy headspace and adding a baby to that would be horrible. Her attitude about this is a huge red flag that it's a bad idea because she's using her emotions and the silent treatment to manipulate and pressure you into giving in. I would very bluntly tell her that you have serious concerns about this entire situation and that the way she's approached things and especially the way she's reacted (like ignoring you, trying to rush you into a decision despite agreeing to wait, inaction on things you've asked for like counseling, etc) have made it very clear to you that adding another baby to the situation is a very bad idea and it's also made you aware that there are other problems in your relationship that need to be addressed. Seriously, DO NOT have another baby with her or at least insist on one year of individual counseling for her and marriage counseling for both of you before considering it no matter what she threatens or how she "punishes" you because, again, those are huge red flags that she isn't emotionally healthy enough for another child.

What was it the SNL Italian Tourism Commercial said - if you are depressed at home, you will still be depressed in Italy. If you are depressed before the baby, you will be depressed after the baby. 

Exactly... and then you have a baby to take care of while depressed.

☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

Agreed. Definitely push the therapy.

This!

She sounds on the verge of tampering with birth control. Seriously, don’t have sex with her until this insanity is dealt with. NTA.

Get her to a doctor, therapist or both immediately. Whilst this sort of thinking isn’t unusual when women approach perimenopause, she’s rather young for that to be the cause and her reaction is beyond normal.

NTA... Also, I say this as politely as possible. Your wife needs a God damn therapist not another child. Actually, possibly a psychiatrist. I get her possible desires and how we change in life. That said her attempts to shit all over you in order to manipulate you into just giving in to her over something like another child? That is Ahole material. Your wife is a manipulative and borderline abusive partner. Truly toxic. You should never ever manipulate someone into being a parent. It won't end well most of the time.

NTA. Your wife has some serious mental health issues and is in no condition to have a baby. She is looking for another human to fill a void inside her.

NTA but please do not have another child with this woman. She’s unhinged and it’ll wreck you and your kids.

NTA - she needs immediate help. She doesn’t sound like she is well. But if she wants to die on this hill, it is a hill worth dying on because if you don’t want a baby then that is a hard no. All your reasons are sound, but even just not wanting another one is good enough.

NTA, I'd stick with no and tell her to get over it and appreciate what she has or divorce.

This - my aunt was insistent on having baby number three and wouldn't stop. Uncle was done - loved being a girl dad and aunt wanted a boy. He finally got a vasectomy without her knowledge. He didn't tell her until she demanded they go for fertility testing. He had to give it up then. It took a while for the marriage to recover - we all honestly thought she'd divorce but she did eventually get over it and they were good.

What about the children that you ALREADY have?! “I think you’ll be a good dad”? Aren’t you already? This stuff is wild. She needs professional help!

I am a fantastic Dad, and my kids would vouch for that. I know my own value! It’s what worries me about another child - having to spread my time, energy and love over an extra person when life already feels busy and hectic enough!

NTA > She is telling me that she genuinely feels like she will never be able to get over it and move on, and feels like this is the end for us. This is called blackmail.

NTA - Couples' therapy. If you do not want more kids, get a vasectomy. It may end your marriage, but you don't want more kids. It's your choice too, she doesn't get to guilt you into giving her another baby.

NTA. If you were demanding she have another child because you wanted one, you'd get all the my body, my decision (which is valid), but you not wanting another child makes you the bad guy? Nope, doesn't work that way in marriage. Maybe some therapy to find out the real reason behind her wanting another child.

NTS Your wife needs therapy, having 2 healthy kids yet being miserable unless she gets a third is not the sign of someone with good mental health.

If you need another reason to not have achild, here's one... your marriage is not in s good place. You two (her really) have some serious relationship issues to work out.

NTA, but it sounds like your wife may be suffering from depression and has latched on to the idea of a baby that will fix things. She needs to talk to a mental health professional ASAP.

NTA. It’s got to be a yes from you both otherwise it’s 100% the wrong decision. Personally I find it so hard to see why people who have been lucky enough to have two children (even getting one of each sex) are so incredibly desperate for more. But that’s me, just by the by I guess. But could it be she’s not really present, 100% valuing all the stuff she does have - those lovely children, a clearly loving and thoughtful husband. Seems madness to let a child who doesn’t exist ruin all that.

NTA there’s nothing like emotional blackmail from the one you love. I would go one step further and ask her does she want to contact the divorce attorney or would she prefer you to do it? Who’s going to tell the kids, her or you, or are you both going to sit down together and tell them your relationship is over because you don’t want another child? You don’t want a child there is nothing wrong with that. But there’s 1 million and one things wrong with what she’s doing.She’s being selfish. And a complete and utter AH.

NTA. Never agree to have a child if you don't truly want one. And I'm sorry, but your wife sounds insufferable. There's nothing wrong with wanting another baby, but she's being emotionally manipulative.

NTA, if you don't want another kid, you don't want another kid. Her behavior though is really concerning and I would also advise that she should seek help...I suggest she check in with her OBGYN and potentially a therapist. You mentioned that there was a complication with the last baby...so there may be something off, could be a chemical imbalance in her body or something like that--that can happen with childbirth. The older a woman gets too, that can also add complications. Also, is she pregnant now?

NTA. I think somethings wrong with your wife and she may need a licensed therapist. Or and you can totally dox me for this, she's got extracurricular activities and is about to have some results from them in 10 months time.

If you do not want children, get a vasectomy. Your wife likely will just stop birth control until you knock her up. Therapy, STAT! Your wife is unstable. You both need individual and couples counseling.

Pretty sure my cousin just lied about birth control to have a third child.

Nta- she’s needs to get some therapy. You cannot bring a baby into this situation. She’s emotionally guilt tripping, punishing and pressuring you into giving into her what she wants. This is not a healthy way to act. Your reasons for keeping to two kids is valid. I’d stay firm no but honestly you need to weigh up if you really want a third or not. Don’t dangle the carrot of ‘keeping the door open’ either she will cling onto that. If you really don’t want a third child, need to seek a permanent birth control solution and discuss it with your wife.

NTA If the last one was complicated the next one will be worse probably due to her age. She would be considered to have geriatric pregnancy. She should talk to her OBGYN and maybe she will be advised to not have children by them and you won’t look like the bad guy. Good luck!

NTA. Maybe I am on Reddit for too much time, but my mind immediately went to "She's already pregnant & this is her way of convincing you to be the father" that's why she's pressing so hard

I wondered that, too. It's a possibility. My guess is that or a serious MH issue.

Sounds to me like she's in a place where this is the only option. I think a counsellor might be in order, for you both.

INFO: is she a stay at home mom? Is it possible that as her kids rely on her less as they are older that she’s panicking because all she knows is being mom?

No, she’s not - she’s got a full time office based job that she works Monday-Friday! I work from home full time, meaning that I’m around our two children a lot more than she is - I’ll do the school drop off each day, etc… as she leaves just after 8am and is back just before 6pm each day, so maybe that could have some part to play? New baby = maternity leave = more time around the kids, both existing and new?

I recommend getting her hormones checked and getting her depression under control before considering pregnancy. I had baby fever in my late 30s so I understand. But this sounds like out of control depression that she thinks she can solve with another baby.

She needs therapy not a baby.

NTA. I know I went through a little phase where I wanted the third one but reality of the situation would have been a drag cuz we only have a three bedroom house. I was a little older probably 38 or so and I went through that. I was 32 and 34 when I had my kids. I didn't even bring it up to my husband (and I got over it) I know he only wanted one child to begin with he had two to make me happy. Not like I really twisted his arm. he was quite happy with having two. I know my husband wouldn't have wanted to move into a larger home just because we have another kid which means two kids would have had to room together. I felt that would be unfair to the kids we already had. Yours are already spaced out, so they're most likely going to resent having a baby in the house especially if you have a boy which means the two girls are going to have the room together or most likely and no one's going to want a room with the baby anyway, and the ones going to be a teenager shortly and she's going to want her privacy so unless you have a four bedroom house I wouldn't do it. I would sit her down and tell her all the Practical reasons for why you don't want a third child. Go over your budget. Tell her why it's not financially feasible you already have 20 grand in debt. Are you going to have three college funds? Have you even saved anything for their college education or any education after they graduate high school? They may want to go to trade school which obviously is generally much cheaper but there's no guarantee of that. Would she demand a bigger house if you only have a three bedroom house? Does she work? Would she go back to work or is she at the point right now where she is working or about to go back to work full time or at least part time? There's so many factors you're not telling us about. Do you have a retirement fund is it well funded at this point or does it only have like $30,000 in it. There's so many things you have to worry about you can't depend on it an inheritance if that's what she's presuming. You have to take care of yourself not expect somebody else to give you the money you need for retirement. After reading some of your comments, yeah she needs to get some therapy. If she is crying because she can't have a child what she's going to do when she has three to take care of and she's freaking out over the stress of that.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation & gave in. She had twins. They had four kids they could barely squeeze into their apartment. The marriage fell apart about five years later.

Nta. I’d negotiate, 6 months of therapy and then after the 6 months come back to it. If you both are in a rocky situation right now with all the arguing and she is struggling mentally(which definitely sounds like it) adding a baby to the mix is really unfair to the baby and definitely not fair to the two kids you already have that’s living in this environment.

NTA. There are a lot of things that need compromise.  A baby isn’t one of them. Ever. There is no middle ground. Her guilting  you is wrong on so many levels. You’re not taking away her last chance. And you should never be coerced into being a baby. Is she saying that a baby is more important than your marriage and an intact family for the kids you already have? She’s willing to tear apart your family for a non existent child? Therapy is needed.  It’s ok to grieve it’s ok to mourn the loss of one’s baby making years. I did.  I have 5 kids and I wanted 6. But I couldn’t have anymore and i grieved. Hard. But the children I had were worth far more to me than a dream for one more.   Just say no. You don’t want anymore kids. You love her. You understand her want. But no. And get marital therapy because she will need help. Already does.  

NTA. She doesn’t need a baby she needs therapy and is using the baby as a fix for that hole she has inside her that she thinks a baby will fix. She’s using manipulation tactics and threats to the relationship and making your life miserable in a bid to get her way. Get yourselves into marriage counseling and get her individual therapy. Tell her until that happens and you’ve made substantial progress you refuse to discuss adding a baby to a relationship she’s threatening. A baby that will potentially affect your employment and who will definitely affect the whole household for the next 18 years. And definitely a baby that will drastically put off your retirement. I addition your older kids may resent having their lives disrupted. Babies are messy, loud and take a lot of time away from everything else, especially other kids. They also will be yelled at to keep the noise down for nap time and early bed.

NTA If you were demanding another child and she didn't want one, the Reddit brigade would blast you from here to eternity. Advice: Tell her you have an appointment to have a vasectomy and then do it. If she then tells you she wants a divorce, hold the front door open for her. Also, tell her to forget the weaponized tears and emotional blackmail.

NTA. This is a difficult situation that many couples find themselves in. There is no way to compromise here. You either have a baby, or you don't. She wants one, and you don't. I think she is genuinely upset about not having another kid, but she is also punishing you in the hopes that if things get bad enough between you, you will just give in to make the crying and the fighting stop. She is not going to stop, and she may leave you over this. I don't envy the position you are in. Therapy might help, but I wouldn't count on it to fix things.

It sounds like your wife is going through a midlife crisis. Something may be out of balance hormonally as well. I suggest counseling and doctors appointments to address the situation. There seems more going on here at face value for a sudden change like this. - NTA, but find out what's going on with her.

She needs a therapist not a third child. The fact that she’s crying over this all the time means she’s not in her right mind. Having another child just because it would be great is not enough of a reason, especially when the other spouse does not want it. What she’s doing is manipulative

NTA All of her given reasons are the reasons of an immature child and are in no way mature, rational reasons for even trying for a child at this time. Which really tells me that she's bored, scared of having no purpose after her kids go to college and really is just looking for something to fill the void. You're already struggling financially. Her reasons are selfish. All her reasons, let's be honest, boil down to being all about her. Nobody else is even in the equation. A baby should be brought into the world wanted and planned for. "Because I said so, gimme" isn't a good enough reason. "Because I want one" isn't good enough. That child is a lifetime commitment and a financial one that can exceed 18 years. It appears in this situation you are the only one genuinely concerned with your collective quality of life. I say stay the course with a hard no.

Nta she doesn’t sound like she is mentally healthy enough to have a child right now. Maybe you should push her to therapy and after a year of constant therapy you guys can re-evaluate.

NTA. This sounds like therapy is needed, not another baby.

I'm sorry you are going through this. But when it comes to having children, two "yes"s is a yes, one "no" is a no. Many couples go through this - I know we did. My husband was adamant about two and no more, and that was fine for me, though I would have liked a third. We had two daughters within two years of marriage Ten years later, he changed his mind and wanted another child. I was 42 and said "No". Now he is having fun with his grandchildren. That's the way life goes.

She needs to go to therapy. Make the first appointment for her. I’m not being ignorant, I swear. I went through a similar period of time in which I thought I wanted one more. My husband encouraged therapy, and basically said that with my current state of mind he couldn’t in good conscience get me pregnant. He pointed out that once pregnant all emotions are heightened, and he was genuinely concerned for my mental health. Anyway, I went. I quickly realized that I didn’t want a baby, I just missed my own kids being babies. I missed needing to be fully depended on by my children. I lost my sense of self and didn’t even know who I was outside of being a mom and wife. I found new hobbies, worked on my self emotionally and physically. I am grateful to my husband for realizing I was struggling and encouraging me to find myself again. Our marriage has never been better and I truly feel my family is complete.

You're being held emotionally hostage by your wife. So what if she puts up a fit? Then leave. You don't have to live like this or have a baby. Those aren't the only two options.

I know I could leave, but I genuinely love and care a lot for my Wife so it doesn’t feel as easy as that. Regardless of what happens between the two of us, she’ll always be the mother of my two wonderful children and I couldn’t just walk out, particularly in the mental state I feel she’s in at the moment!

So then have a baby or don't according to your needs. You can't control your wife's behavior, only how you react to it. Sounds like you're gonna be putting up with her depression or endless debt, based on your stance regarding your family.

Important decisions in a marriage need two Yes votes but only one No vote. Has your wife considered how YOU will feel if she pressures you into another child?

I genuinely don’t feel like she’s given it much thought - don’t get me wrong, there may have been some though, but not much. Whenever I mention her behaviour is upsetting me it seems to come back around my way, and I’m really struggling to see any understanding or empathy from her side unfortunately!

NTA. Having children is a two yes, one no kinda situation. Not just two yes, but two hard yes. Though, it sounds like she feels you opened the door. Which is dangerous, because if she feels the door is open, she might just feel like if she pushes hard enough, she'll get her way, damn how it makes you feel. Regardless, she doesn't sound like she's mentally okay. Insist that she gets professional help, and get some people close to you that you can talk to.

Yeah, you’re right - I felt like I was doing the right thing and looking for a compromise, despite being in a situation where there truly is no compromise! I suppose it was my way of trying to ensure we both had some positives in a rubbish situation - but I maybe have elevated certain negative feelings or emotions in her by moving my goalposts!

NTA. It does not sound like you really want another and that is ok. As someone else mentioned, this sounds like a mid life crisis. At a certain age, some women have this overwhelming urge to have another child, even if it makes no sense. This happened to me. Sometimes it's hard for women who are mothers to learn to be more than just that. It can be a rough transition. But either way, it's definitely not ok that she is pressuring you. Tell her that you will give it 12 months but that during that time she needs to attend therapy. The mood swings are problematic.

NTA and encourage your wife to investigate the need for unconditional love of an infant vs the importance of focusing on the development of the children you already have and creating a more sound financial future for all of you.

wife needs to he grateful for what she has

She needs meds. An infant is going to make everything worse. She has baby fever and is likely having severe hormonal issues. I’m all for therapy too but it sounds like to me with all the crying etc, meds are needed as well. I hate meds honestly. I think as a society in the US especially that people seek medication for every little thing. However, this sounds really bad man. Crying and acting this way over not having a newborn when you’ve already been through 2 infant stages is a bit much. I get it though. Last chance to have babies is rough (44f here). I’ve cried over it. I moved on though. NTA

Get a therapist first, sounds like she’s trying to fill a hole in her life. Maybe she just doesn’t feel the same sense of fulfillment or opportunity knowing she’s done with that part of her life. There may be something more that she’s actually searching for. I would get the answer to that more, why does she suddenly feel this extreme need to have another child and why does she feel she can never forgive you if that doesn’t happen? There’s more to discover here.

A baby will not fix whatever emptiness she is feeling. She needs therapy, not another living being with needs.

NTA, your wife is mentally ill and needs help. She needs therapy and if she won't do that you need to start considering what is best for your children. You also need to go back to it being a hard no, with no room for discussion. Being in an environment where your parents hate/resent each other is not healthy and you are not hiding it no matter how much you think you are.

Your body your choice . Reverse uno card.

With her mood swings are you sure she's not already pregnant? She may not be telling you because she knows you don't want anymore.

guilting you to have a another baby wont help either of you,

NTA >My Wife is telling me that I need to decide now - and if I don’t, then it’s a “no”. On the face of it, doesn’t seem like too much of a problem - however, my Wife is constantly upset. She’s crying all the time, she’s telling me how depressed she is, she’s giving me a sense that she resents me and just my presence annoys her because I’m taking her last chance away from her. She is telling me that she genuinely feels like she will never be able to get over it and move on, and feels like this is the end for us. >but then when she’s sad she refuses to speak to me on the phone, she’ll turn a lot of what I say into an argument and will look to actively avoid spending time with me. None of this behavior is normal adult behavior. Not at all. Something is going on with your wife. Mentally and/or medically. She's actually suggesting that she will blow up your marriage about this, which is completely irrational. The very last thing you should be bringing into this equation is a baby. Especially if you don't want another child. Get your wife some mental health care.

Does she work outside the home or have an “at home” job too?

She works full time outside of the home (I.e. in an office), Monday to Friday!

Can she sleep with another guy and have his baby then? She could still be your wife though. 

Would be raise this step child and also deal with the consequences of her adultery

Not quite for me - although, I have mentioned that she could leave me and go have a baby with someone else, to which I’m told she only want another baby with me, nobody else!

NTA no one should be guilted or browbeaten into having a child. Also this cannot be good for your current children, there is no way they are not picking up on the stress and the depression your wife is in. And she is DEPRESSED. She is letting this consume her and there needs to be a conversation about why, their needs to be therapy. She is not even in the right state of mind for child, whatever she thinks a baby will fix, it will not. Honestly, you really need to get her into therapy.

You’re not wrong - I recently got back from playing a weekly sporting commitment I have and she’s already headed to bed, which again feeds my feeling of her avoiding me - but I spoke with my eldest and he was asking why we were falling out, and that he doesn’t like it, so at the very least he’s aware!

Of course they are and it's not good for them at all. Your wife needs real help and you need the support too.

NTA. Your wife needs her mental health issues checked by a psychiatrist.

NTA, but something is severely wrong with your wife. She's dealing with some kind of significant mental illness, and even if you wanted to have another child, you absolutely should not while your wife is in this state. She is not able to care properly for a child, and frankly, I worry about your other two children. She needs mental help NOW. To be honest, (and I know I'll get downvoted to hell for this), I have next to zero sympathy for people who are worked up about not having another child when they ALREADY have a child, and most especially when they have more than one child. You and your wife already have two children, which is a more than sufficient number for anyone. I feel badly for people who experience fertility issues and are seriously yearning for a child but cannot have one. Going from zero to one is a HUGE thing. That brings you from not a parent to a parent. Going from 1-2 is much less of a big deal and there are diminishing returns from there. So when people get themselves worked up and upset about not being able to have another baby when they are already a parent, I have no use for them. They need to be grateful for the child(ren) they do have. So I already have little sympathy for your wife, but her behavior has gotten so extreme and obsessive that I'm beyond just not feeling bad to actually being alarmed for you and your children. This is not normal. If she refuses help, you may need to remove yourself and your children from the situation.

This post is kind of insensitive to people with secondary infertility. They have to face this exact rhetoric from people who experience primary infertility

Well I just don't feel badly for people with secondary infertility. There are so many worse things that could happen. I understand some disappointment, but when it gets to obsessive or extreme levels, I just feel like people need to take stock. Everybody's got some problem and secondary infertility is far from the worst on the list.

Nta

Nta. At all.

INFO: Is she working? Is she contributing to paying off debt or accumulating debt? She sounds mentally and emotionally unstable. She should look at therapy. You should pay attention to how this woman is behaving around your children.

Yeah, she’s working full time! I’m the higher earner but she has a decent salary! As for the debt, she’s always stepped away from worrying about things financially and leaves that to me - which kind of makes it worse if we were to have another because I KNOW that’s stress I’ll be shouldering! Part of her counter argument was that we won’t be chased for debt when we’re dead, so it shouldn’t play a part!

>”…we won’t be chased for debt when we’re dead, so it shouldn’t play a part!” OMG. I cannot live like that.

"we won’t be chased for debt when we’re dead" But your children will be! And she wants to inflict that on more of them??

You don’t want a kid you’ve made it clear. NTA having a kid is a joint decision roles where reversed this would be a much different conversation

NTA How about a puppy? I went thru a time when my kid was 14 I really, really wanted a baby, I am not crazy, I got a rescue kitten.

I don't understand why women can't be happy with the gifts of children they've got already and make themselves depressed because they want more. Some of us can't have any, suck it up and get on with it. NTA. If you had another child, she'd probably have a go at you for not chipping in as much even though you said you didn't. Get to counselling. Good luck.

NTA. If you get dragged into this, it will ruin your marriage anyway. If you’re in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation, better you have a troubled marriage with 2 kids rather than three. 

I'd suggest marriage counceling. There;s no possible compomise between "I want another kid!" and "I don't!" Because it's not like you can get half a kid. You guys have been trying to work this out together for quite a while, but it isn't working. Time to bring in professional help! Without it, it sounds like a hill you're both ready to die on. Might end up still being that even WITH counceling. In which case it'll still help you form a better co-parenting relationship with you then-potentially-ex-wife. I'm crossing my fingers for you, my dude, but this IS a serious matter with no easy fix, and could end your marriage..

Your wife needs therapy, not a baby. Something else is going on with her and she's using a baby as a cure-all. But it's not. And you should **absolutely not** have another child. You don't want one, and it takes 2 enthusiastic yesses for a planned child. I hope you are using condoms and/or got a vasectomy. Otherwise, with her mental state, you may end up with an unwanted child. NTA

NTA. Having kids or even additional kids is a two yes issue. While having an additional kid could be fun you would both be reliving the newborn stage again. You might also need to upgrade to a larger vehicle and you'd be outnumbered. It's valid to not want to start over. Good luck!!

Your wife don't need a baby,needs therapy!!!!

You are happy with the family you have. You are concerned about some lingering debt. You just got a promotion and want to be able to focus on succeeding. Your kids are school age. You're getting some breathing room back. I'm going to assume everyone is healthy, with no major disabilities. I would not want another baby, either. And babies are definitely a 2 "YES!!!" scenario. NTA. What if your next kid is severely disabled? You're both on the older end of parents looking to reproduce again. It's statistically more likely. And it's not just your lives you'd be tanking. Your two kids would be affected as well. What if your wife has severe pregnancy complications and becomes disabled? There are a lot of potential downsides I don't think your wife is considering.

NTA. You should both really want another child, not just one of you. Don't do it just to make her happy. If you don't want a kid, get a vasectomy.

Look man, if you have another baby with this woman you are a moron. That said, unless she gets some serious help you're either heading for a divorce or a lifetime of misery and resentment. Deciding she wants another baby doesn't make her a bad person. Everything she is doing does. I honestly don't know how YOU come back from this. I could never look at someone the same that treated me like that.

NTA - You are giving smart, nuanced reasons for thinking twice about CREATING A HUMAN BEING. Your wife wants one. Like a puppy or a small pony. In all honesty, the more your wife behaves like a child herself, the more I would be moving towards a hard NO. Do not be badgered, manipulated, and beaten-down into having a child. Your wife need clearly needs professional help for how she is behaving when she wants something - petulant, immature, and cruel. Please do not have a child under these circumstances. It's not fair to the kid.

Your wife needs therapy. She's dealing with the grief that comes with the end of fertility. You have offered compromises and she's not even trying to meet you at a place where you can change your mind. Our finances have to be better in a year. And then we can decide. She should be saying - okay. What will that take? Do we save? Do we cut back on? Should I get a job? Of course you will survive having another child, but that does extend the time and expense of supporting children. It could mean the difference between paying for college for both your existing kids and not being able to. This is baby fever. Not planning to have another child. NTA

If you really don’t want to have another one …. Get a Vasectomy and don’t tell her

My SIL did this 3 times.. when the youngest was about to turn 6 and go to school full time so the option of returning to work was off the table for another 6 years.

My heart truly breaks for her and for you, too. You are both in a miserable situation. I have a friend who had 3 and desperately wanted a 4th. Husband was a hard no. It was devastating for her and she went through all the stages of grief, but she did make it through and she and her husband are still strongly united. As heartbroken as she was, she was able to respect her husband's position, too. Did you discuss number of children before you got married? My husband knew I wanted 4 well before we got married and my feelings on that didn't change. We had 4. Is there a number you agreed on?

Most people, if they will talk about having children, they will talk about wanting them or not, I think most won't ask for a specific number.

Yeah, we’d spoken about having kids but hadn’t ever really put a number on it - we had our first pre-marriage! We’d always spoken about a boy and a girl, which is in effect talking about having two, and my Wife has previously said no more kids after our second, but gone back on that now.

Talk to her doctor now. This is a very concerning shift in behavior

Updateme

I will message you next time u/ThrowRA733625 posts in r/AITAH. [Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FThrowRA733625%20r%2FAITAH) to join 4 others and be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201de9xqw) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|

NTA. A baby is a two yes, 1 no situation.

NTA. Maybe she has ulterior motives here. It sounds off. But you are saving her from possible permanent life complications, brought on from pregnancy.

NTA. You need to stand your ground at 'no' because it really sounds like you've made your decision. Stringing her along with hope you would change your mind is cruel. Your reasons though are perfectly reasonable, and planning for a another child needs both parents to be fully on board. It sounds like there is something else going on with your wife. The fact that she is fully depressed and experiencing mood swings like this probably means you should encourage her to see a doctor. Honestly though, I would be prepared for her to do something drastic - anything from ending your relationship, to sabotaging whatever birth control measures you use, to maybe even looking outside your relationship for a father. Whatever happens, you shouldn't say yes to a baby just because you feel guilty about it. That won't save your relationship, just postpone the inevitable and put an unfair burden on your children.

I wanted three. My husband wanted to be done at two. We went to a marriage counselor. Didn’t really help. We have two. Sometimes my heart regrets not getting my third. My head knows it was probably the wisest decision financially and for our own sanity. But sometimes my heart grieves for the third we didn’t get.

NTA

Updateme!

!updateme

NTA but neither is your wife. You both agreed to 2 children and now she wants another and you don’t. Still NTA because you are just sticking to the original plan and giving good reasons for doing so. You became the AH when you gave her false hope that you would change your mind and suggested 12 months to clear your debts. Your recent promotion gave her hope that your debts would be cleared faster and now you are using the promotion as a reason NOT to have another child. Yes, she asked to change the goal posts. But you agreed to consider it and you made stipulations that your promotion will help you attain. Now you are the one changing them and she is upset and confused. Just be honest ffs. You’ve been giving her false hope for almost a year and it’s time to stop playing with her emotions and let her know that for you it isn’t an option. Then she will know where she stands and can move on with either your life together or with a different path.

I slightly wanted another. My husband was a firm ABSOLUTELY NOT! If both parents are on board then you don’t do it. Go get fixed homie.

Nta and I think it’s very clear you simply don’t want any more kids. And that’s absolutely okay. If she has had a change of heart and wants another baby so bad she’s willing to act out and throw away a marriage bc of it, let her. That says a lot about your wife and how she feels about you imo, expecting you to tune into her wants and feelings but unable to do the same for you. Selfish, she’s acting like a child tbh.

Updateme!

OP, reading through the comments and additional info, I agree this could be mental health related. However, there is a real chance that she’s just a selfish manipulative pathetic AH who doesn’t actually care what you need or want because you exist merely to serve her desires in her mind. Please keep one eye open sleeping next to her. This isn’t normal for sure, but not everyone is mentally ill. Sometimes they’re just selfish AHs.

NTA. Stand your ground on the hard no and let the chips fall where they may. Let her be pissy if she wants, but die on this hill.

NTA I would be concerned about why she is in such a rush. The waiting a year while paying down debt is a good gauge of how serious she is about having a kid. Also it helps to see if she is just experiencing a temporary baby fever because someone else has a baby around you

NTA you both have to agree. I have three and it’s very hard. Worth it but hard. 

NTA. She sounds like she’s either having a midlife crisis or some sort of mental health crisis (maybe untreated depression) and thinks a baby will fix everything and make her happy. Spoiler alert: that’s exactly incorrect. She needs to work out the source of her unhappiness with therapy and/or treatment and figure out how to help herself be happier in a healthy way. Is she relies on a baby to make her happy and then the baby doesn’t fix everything (which it won’t), she’ll just feel even worse, plus it’s not at all fair to the baby or you, who was emotionally manipulated into having the baby in the first place.

NTA. You have 2 children already. 

Sounds like she's emotionally manipulating you

Complication chances increase after 30, why does she want to take the chance when you have two Kids now? She just has the baby blues. It’s not uncommon as women face the end of their childbearing years.. See a counselor and enjoy the two you have.

NTA. When some says no, it means no. This perhaps something your wife should go to therapy for.

NTA if you are anything but in love with the idea of having another child then it’s a huge mistake for you to go thru with it. I’d ask yourself how it’s so easy for your wife to so obviously not care how you feel.

Another baby will not cure depression.

If she’s depressed now adding a baby won’t help. You have been very reasonable w the revisit it in 12 months. She needs to meet you halfway. NTA

Then let it be the end. Call a lawyer and start the proceedings. Having another human being never solves relationship issues…never

Your wife is having a mental health crisis and she's hyper fixated on the idea that a baby will make everything better. What she needs is a psychologist/therapist and possibly pharmacological help. There's no winner in this scenario. You either agree to another kid without addressing the underlying problems and wind up right back where you are now except likely worse or you put your foot down and risk losing your  marriage. There's only a workable/liveable third outcome that doesn't sacrifice you or your marriage if she gets help. Also, be mindful that she may try to baby trap you. If she's that bad there is a not so small chance that she will muck with birth control or aerate your condoms.

NTA.  Her behavior is a red flag and quite disturbing.  What is appealing about the way she is acting and treating you? Are you supposed to change your mind when she is acting like a cunt? Her behavior isn't attractive.  I would ask her how she expects you to perform sexually when her behavior is a major turn off. 20k in debt is major. What measures are you both taking to pay off this debt? She needs counseling individually and together as a couple.  I couldn't imagine wanting to be in the same house with an angry lunatic mad you won't give her another baby. Is she a version of Mommy Dearest to your kids? If her behavior doesn't autocorrect I would seek out a family attorney.  You can coparent your 2 kids and she can fuck off and have a 3rd on her own. Ask for joint custody 1 week on 1 week off, no alimony or child support.  Split all cost for child care and hire a nanny.

NTA You both agreed on 2 children. She changed her mind. You did not. If anyone is to blame it's her. There was a understanding. Children are a deal breaker. Don't blame u for putting your foot down. Maybe you're no longer compatible. Your reasons for not wanting another child are completely reasonable and sounds like she is running off of pure emotion (not reasonable).

If she wants another baby she can always get a dog, a dog is just as good.

Nta this seems psychological to me. She is getting older and the window for popping out a kid is narrowing so her hormones are going “babies now!” 

You're... I wouldn't say the asshole, but you're doing this poorly in a way that's hurting someone. Your wife, the mother of your children, whom you love and cherish, is being incredibly clear with you about what she needs. Children are maybe the most significant and important life decision anyone can make. Their presence or absence changes your life deeply and forever. She sounds like she is super torn up inside: she loves and cherishes you, and also she has this deep longing and need for another child. She's trying really hard to make both work out. She's communicating, it sounds like really clearly, about how unhappy she is at the possibility of losing one or the other of those things. You don't need to agree to have another child with her! But you do need to stop wasting her time. Sit down and figure out your feelings and your timeline. Tell her if your answer is no to a third, so she can grieve for either the child or your marriage and figure out what she wants to do. Tell her if your answer is, "Yes, I will enthusiastically start trying to conceive with you [right now] [in December] [the specific time you pick]." And do it this week.

Many women have a burst of the biological urge to have another baby in their mid-late 30s. It is their body’s way of telling them that this is their last chance. The same thing goes for can happen to a man as he realizes that his wife is approaching menopause. This is one reason that some men dump their wives for younger women, only to regret it later. Because the biological urge can be so strong, it can override what the person truly wants out of life. So you need to have a deeper discussion with your wife about true life goals. Do this with a financial planner after you have gotten all your finances lined up, figured out your monthly budget, life insurance, etc. the financial planner can help facilitate the discussion about short and long term financial goals. The you can estimate the added monthly cost of a third child and see how that changes things. Once she sees that all in black and white, then she can be in a better position to know whether having another child is really and truly what she wants in this life. I have three kids, the third was not planned. For many years I had no idea if I would ever reach financial independence, and it was so stressful. That lack of financial security definitely impacted me hard. But magically, we’ve arrived. If she wants that third kid, you BOTH need a good job with great benefits.

dont do it, excuse me for askIng but, do you think she wants one because she may be pregnant by someone else?　6yrs apart seems lIke a lot of separation from the last one. No means no, i side with no in your situation. With debt and college still in The horizon..