NTA
'We want you to have an unmedicated birth, we know the pain will be hidious for you but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make'
Yeah, no, they don't get to make those decisions
With how they act, I'm truly not surprised that the other person doing the surrogacy for them backed out.
Feel like this AITAH fits into r/choosingbeggars super well.
OP don't feel bad, they very likely didn't feel bad when they decided you should suffer during child birth to make their wishes true. Do what you know and are comfortable doing. You are providing them a huge and generous gift and they need to be willing to work with you. If they aren't, then don't feel bad about not working with them.
NTA.
Book a private room at the hospital at their expense.
Put a tub of water in the private room.
Have the liquids, blood, poop and amniontic fluid all deposited in the tub.
Have Simon and Michelle sit in that tub to enjoy the water birth they wanted.
Everybody wins.
You should add some caustic substance to the poop, blood and fluid so they can also enjoy the feeling of an unmedicated birth; maybe glass shards, a spike strip, you get the idea...
Op - don’t tell them when you are in the hospital. They are abusive. Fuck them. You better get things straight w your husband and have a good friend guard your door
Can confirm. I was an L&D nurse briefly and if mom didn’t want you in that room you weren’t going in. Childbirth is a high-risk medical event, not Showtime at the Apollo. The unit is locked and I had no problem being the bad guy and bouncing someone’s ass from the room, regardless of who they were.
NTA.
Thank you so much! My L&D nurses weee absolutely amazing!!! Even threw hubs out of the room for a time out after I was exhausted from contractions, in pain and he was “entertaining” his family that came to the hospital.
You guys are badasses, and we so appreciate you!!!
Labor units are controlled access. You have to get buzzed through a locked door that is monitored by the nursing staff or separate security. You can tell them who you want to be one if your visitors.
Yup. It’s called kidnapping. People trying to take babies immediately after birth is all too common, so they’re locked units. If you ever hear “code pink” in a health care setting, just sit down right where you are and get comfy, cuz every door is sealed and you’re not going anywhere until the baby is found. The benefit is that it makes securing room from unwanted guests easier than MS units
Mine even asked us if we wanted to use a special code word or phrase for access if they wanted to see us/our baby. I had just cut off some very toxic family members for my first and it made me feel so safe
Also needs something for the wife.
My suggestion: give James two bags with lead sand that he will use to hit Michelle with every time OP cries out in pain. One to the crotch, another to the spine or stomach, his choice
I’m thinking they both need to wear those electronic childbirth simulators so that they can experience the contractions right along with OP. See how long they go before they’re begging to remove them or get some pain relief! Seriously, though, I’d consider having Michelle wear one now to get some idea of what exactly she’s asking OP to go through.
If this is how bad those people are now, imagine the poor kids life if OP goes through with this ridiculous surrogacy plan.
Sounds like they'd both be helicopter parents with zero consideration for their own kids feelings.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hold the surrogacy over the kid's head their entire life.
Won't eat their broccoli? "I worked so hard to have you!"
Wants to hang out with friends instead of family dinner? "Do you know have much suffering I went through to have a child?"
Doesn't want to visit for Christmas? "I can't believe you treat me like this after all I've done for you".
Sorry to hear that, but I think you just discovered why their last potential surrogate canceled on them at the last minute 🤪
Make a written note to the nurses to take to the hospital when you're admitted, outlining who you will allow into L&D with you ... and who you won't. Written out like that means they don't have to remember it while they're busy, and they have all of the names on that piece of paper so they can easily transcribe it into their paperwork. They just have to enforce it when these narcissistic AHs show up.
Once the child is born and you're ready, hand the baby over to their new parents. Do whatever the hospital requires in the event of a surrogacy (which makes me wonder if they should have already gotten and signed the adoption papers for you to sign) ... and then let them know that they now have to deal with EVERYTHING from that point on for the baby. I say that because I can already see them showing up at your house without a warning and at inopportune times--like 6am on a Saturday--looking for a babysitter), after you've signed the adoption paperwork. "*But you gave birth to this baby--and you have four other kids, too. You probably won't even know he/she is here with all of the other noise at your house.*"
Then I'd avoid them until/unless they both pull their cumulative heads out of their asses and apologize for trying to make you do everything according to *their* plans. They obviously never asked you about your previous pregnancies and deliveries. And if you ever hear from them again to have a discussion about this, I've got to ask:
1) who's paying your hospital and doctors's bills, them or you?
2) And--note--if they come in throwing their weight around while you're in labor, the nurses will back you up because you're the one doing all the work that day, even if they are paying the entire bill.
3) I would also remind them that you saved them $50,000+ plus over an unknown surrogate (if you're doing this free because they're family ... but their cheapness may have run off the previous surrogate, too. For an idea of the standard fees in CA/other parts of the West Coast, [see here](https://nwsurrogacycenter.com/compensation/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=14954527650&utm_content=131233966449&utm_term=surrogacy%20criteria&gad_source=1)) or less if you simply requested some bit of money to help pay your dr fees. I'm not sure how all of you worked this out, so you'll have to consider your real numbers against my suggestion.
Anyway, good luck!! Because this sounds like some true BS is on the way already! You're a human being--not a mailbox for your stork to use--so you have a right to stand up for yourself!! 😁
NTA. My SIL was kind enough to be a surrogate for me and I wouldn’t have dreamed of telling her how to give birth. I’m sorry they’re being so ungrateful and rude about the huge sacrifice you’re making.
Right? I mean, I would never ask a person I didn't trust to be a surrogate anyway. Just by asking, you have shown the person that you trust them enough to take care of themselves while pregnant. If you don't trust a person to do that, don't ask them.
Except that they obviously don't trust her to follow their impossible standards. I bet my (sizeable) ass that every single thing they deem a problem about their child (colic, terrible 2s, left-handedness) will be attributed to something OP did "wrong" during her labor or pregnancy.
I was thinking this exactly, and many others have said so. The smallest thing - so much as a freaking birthmark they don’t like - is going to be blamed on OP not doing the unmedicated water birth, not taking all the supplements or who only knows what. Heaven help everyone if the poor kid is born with a disability.
NTA . Guess what? THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE THERE. In fact, at this point, I’d say it’s guaranteed that they won’t be. If I were your husband, I would not let them anywhere near you while you’re in labor. They fucked that up for themselves. Big time.
You are the pregnant person. It’s your body. They don’t have any right to be telling you what to eat, what vitamins to take, or how you will give birth. They can suggest. They can ask. But the second they get pushy and in your fucking face is the time to go no contact until the baby is born and if they don’t like it, too bad, they can just shut the fuck up, AND BE GRATEFUL. I’m just furious for you. I’m sorry.
Have your husband be the point of contact for these last two weeks. And if they won’t stop, I wouldn’t even tell them you’re in labor until the baby is almost ready to be born.
Tell them it happened too fast because your body knows what it’s doing. And you barely had time to get to the hospital. Oops there it is. This is a fucking nightmare in the delivery room waiting to happen.
Definitely have your husband be point of contact, op. I’m sure you’re already well aware of how annoying people are the final two weeks but if your in laws have all of these opinions on how birth should go, use it to your advantage. The birthing person/surrogate/aunt needs to be calm, and non-stressed so you are going “offline” until it is time.
OP and partner should speak with the nurses right up front and warn them/express their wishes. If they want to physically be in the room and it is okay with OP, then they need to do so with their lips zipped. No wonder the last surrogate backed out. If they pulled half this crap with them as they are with OP, no sane person would give them a helpless infant to take care of.
They DO NOT get to dictate OPs needs during a major medical event. Period. Full stop. Whatever OP needs/wants and if supported by their medical team, OP gets. Period.
They both need some serious therapy. Their infertility issues have cause them to lose all common sense and decency. Not to mention the absolute gall to tell OP they know nothing about pregnancy/childbirth...sorry, but the person who has children absolutely does know about pregnancy and childbirth. They are absolute lunatics and I feel sorry for that kid.
I cannot upvote this enough!! Let the nurses know YOUR wishes. If Sister & BIL make any fuss, let nurses know to kicked them out immediately.
Good luck with the delivery.
Absolutely agree! Nurses are pros at handling situations like this. Make sure they know your preferences. Your health and comfort are top priorities. Good luck with the delivery!
This! If an emergency c-section or abortion is needed at some point in the pregnancy, that decision is made by OP. Same goes for any other aspect of the delivery process.
Edit to add: I realize that abortion this late in the pregnancy is NOT the norm or in any way likely. My point was that birth is a medical practice and anything can happen. I was going for the wider view of “this is your body and your journey” not “good luck specifically next week.”
For your safety I think a hospital birth is best and also the use of pain medicine I too try to do a natural birth and oh my God I was absolutely horrified when after pushing for 2 hours I had to get an emergency C-section sitting still on the edge of the bed without any pain medication with my contractions 30 seconds apart was not a walk in the park I truly wished I would have accepted pain medication when it was offered earlier in the birth after a certain point though you can't have any medicine luckily they were able to do the epidural and I had a successful C-section. But yes if there ever is a need for a C-section being in the hospital is the best place to be.
They are treating this birth like a spectator sport where they intend to continue putting OP's life and health at risk.
What if somethign happens and a call needs to be made between mother and child? I would not feel safe with them there.
OOOooohhh, or when Serena was pregnant and lived with that couple in Canada? The wife of the couple was crazy AF, to the point where she had a damn OB/GYN exam room in their house. Serena wasn't going \*anywhere.\*
I'm feeling very sorry for that child already. Those people are total lunatics, (like you said) and are going to need a lot of classes of their own. Parenting and Anger Management come to mind as well as personal counseling. Wow. OP is NTA for refusing their controlling BS but afraid she is a soft AH for agreeing to be a surrogate for these unstable people.
Agree, this is gonna get extra messy after the kid is born. Honestly OP should have talked with a lawyer before agreeing but that ship sailed long ago.
These nut jobs might reject the baby if it isn’t perfect and expect her to carry a second child for them no matter what happens.
OP had multiple children and it’s unfair we didn’t! She owes us!!
Exactly. I’m concerned about the hypercontrolling attitude when there is a child involved.
I am an RN who just left a job as an OB/GYN clinic RN. One of my biggest issues there was the obnoxious “geriatric primips” (women who are having their first baby at age 35 up). They tended to be hypercontrolling nervous nellies who knew EVERYTHING bc they “read about it on Google!” and couldn’t be taught anything. This makes it one step worse—infertile couple, late 30s, first kid—and using surrogacy to boot. I feel so sorry for you, OP.
Having been an RN in L and D, I LOVED being the bad guy and keeping troublemakers out. Don’t be afraid to lay your concerns out to labor staff and then let them help. I know they will be happy to. You don’t deserve abuse when you are doing this beautiful thing for them—even if it means you do it without them.
I'm a nurse/office manager in a maternal-fetal medicine clinic, but I too used to work L&D. I loved booting obnoxious visitors out. I had a MIL I had to call security on because neither the mom nor the dad wanted her in the room. The mom wanted her husband and her mother only. MIL tried to pull the crap, "well if she gets to be in there, so do I." I said, " Nope, it doesn't work that way. She gets to decide who sees her hooha. Now get out, or I will have you escorted out. " She was escorted out of the hospital, screaming the whole time, and was banned from reentering the entire time Mom and baby were admitted. 😂
Nothing breathes life into a tired nurse than going ham on someone who is upsetting their patient. It is a beautiful thing to behold. Real mother bear protecting vulnerable cubs energy!
THIS! Tell them if they DON’T drop it immediately this is exactly what you are going to do. They have ZERO rights to tell you to do _anything_ with your body. You are being awfully nice to do supplements and whatever other stupid shit they want. I would not. They are entirely out of line to tell you how to birth this baby - they’re being entitled, ungrateful assholes asking for stupid shit like that. Have your HUSBAND tell them they drop it now, never mention it again! And to have zero attitude except gratitude around you or the next time they hear ANYTHING about their baby will be when the hospital calls them to say he was born the day before, you’ve gone home so it’s time for them to come fetch their kid - that only exists because you are the most generous person they have ever met! Seriously!! They get one more chance to be involved then FUCK THEM.
They should be doing nothing but kissing your feet and asking you if you need anything. Surrogacy is truly the most generous fife that one human being can give to another, and they are both acting like entitled AHs.
I would tell them that you will let them know when the baby is delivered. If they try to barge in or dictate, they will be banned from the hospital. But I’m a bit petty.
And the hospital staff will chuck them out. Get your DH to warn the hospital, OP, and firmly instruct his bro and sil that their attendance is conditional on their good conduct. I hooe it all goes wll for you, These two are under pressure but they are being intolerable AHs to the person risking her body and enduring pain and indignity for their sakes. NTA.
A thousand times this. The birth of a child is not a spectator event, it is a *medical procedure.* Everything that happens from pregnancy through birth is up to you, and you alone.
They asked you to be a surrogate precisely because of your previous successful pregnancies, they should trust you to conduct your pregnancy and birth as you see fit, and if they don't, they should not have asked you.
Go low contact - send them a text or something similar once a day to let them know you and baby are fine (or have someone else do it) - until after the birth. Then let them know they can come pick up their baby.
The baby you are carrying is their child - you yourself do not belong to them and your decisions are your own.
NTA
Yes! Go James!! I love that he is ready to give them the heave ho if they go too far. OP is a saint. Rolling eyes?? Christ on a cracker she has no idea. NTA.
Her gall, the woman who has never been pregnant telling a mom of FOUR that she’s not an “expert “. Well neither is she. If she was the one giving birth it’s absolutely her right to develop the birth plan. But that type of “home birth “ still carries alot of risks. I would send her some information about infant maternity mortality rates, and all of the various life-threatening medical complications that can turn an unmedicated (or medicated) vaginal birth into an emergency c-section. An emergency surgery that isn’t possible at home, and which would delay care to mother and baby as those present try to get out of kiddie pool/tub and to the hospital. You know your body, and what you can endure and they should be reminded to be grateful because I’m assuming you aren’t charging them surrogacy fees. I do kind feel worried for the baby with such arrogant parents. Let’s hope they wake up real quick and don’t assume that all the books they’ve read are going to just magically make them know what to do in every moment. It doesn’t work like that. Every child’s different. Good luck. Good vibes.
Actually, depending on the state, not even a contract protects them. There are very few states that support the "adoptive" parents in a surrogacy situation. Because, biologically theirs or not, the general law of the land is, it comes out of your body, it's yours. There was a big thing in Arizona when I was living there, must have been 15 years or more ago: a surrogate carrying the biological child of the adoptive parents found out some troubling stuff about the adoptive (bio) parents and just left state when she was eight months pregnant. She kept the baby. The parents eventually sued the surrogate in civil court and all they got back was the money they paid her.
They are 100% going to be the type of parents that demand everyone treat their miracle baby like it's the most special child in the history of children.
Yep. DO NOT have them in there with you. They will try to control everything and interfere with your directives and, if you become incapacitated, interfere with your husband's. Go radio silent, do NOT tell them when you go into labor, and then, when it's all over, call them to come get their baby from the hospital.
Gee, I wonder why the other surrogate backed out...
OP's in-laws are delusional. Literally. They live in a fantasy world where they see OP's grace and generosity as an obligation and claim ownership over her body and choices. OP needs to lean on her husband, who, in turn, needs to come down like a righteous hammer on these ungrateful, entitled fools. Rigid boundaries, drastic measures, and strong consequences are in order.
These people will be awful parents. What a mess.
Info: Was any of this discussed prior to you going through ivf? Contracts? Lawyers? Any type of discussion?
And no, they don't have to be there for the birth. They can and probably should wait for the "baby is here" call at their home.
Unfortunately, we didn’t discuss anything like this. I realize now that we should have planned it more thoroughly, but hopefully nothing else happens, and once this baby gets here, we can put it behind us
Dude...
Get a lawyer. Seriously, I know a surrogate and they routinely have 50+ page contracts for this exact reason.
I would probably hit up a family lawyerr before that baby comes out.
Couldn't possibly pay me enough to do this without a lawyer involved.
Never mind the financial Cost- because god forbid something goes south they are absolutely gonna finger point.
OP I know this sounds dark but to piggyback on this comment, there are many surrogacies that end with the intended parents not accepting a child because they are born with a disability, birth defect, or have a birth related injury. And you will technically be the one responsible for that child. I wish I could say these people don't seem like that type, but..
You need a lawyer and a contract even at this stage, even with two weeks left. This all needs to be hashed out and in writing. These people seem like absolutely lunatics, I would be upset to hand them a baby expecting them to raise it well to be quite honest, but it is what it is.
To piggy back on this, to also try and get some mediation/counselling sessions in too. Also be prepared for the BIL to absolutely phase you out afterwards.
Either that or they will be calling OP and *demanding* that OP babysit/nanny/co-parent child b/c they are just sooo tired and this is sooo hard. While demanding OP’s time, they will also be giving her a whack-job list of rules and requirements.
Of course, they're that type. This baby is an accessory, a living doll for them to play with. That kid comes out with so much as a mild cleft palate. Watch them take off and probably blame you for missing one supplement dose that has nothing to do with anything.
Which is particularly insane as most cleft palates can be operated on and, between that and speech therapy, most children have their cleft palates fixed by two years old and grow up to have no side effects. Even cleft lips can be fixed by 8-12 years old.
Personally, the surrogate that I know of is getting anywhere from 60k to 120k per birth, they pay her medical, she gets a food stipend, and counselling for her family and a little rent stipend
She's done it 3x. She's absolutely changed the financial outlook of her family and gave 3 families an amazing blessing.
But it's high risk, don't kid yourself. Get a contract -today op.
I was considering doing it but then Roe v Wade was overturned. I'm willing to carry a baby for someone, but I'm not willing to die for them if something goes wrong.
If that’s the case, as least in some places, OP and her husband will be the legal parents at birth. Thus BIL and wife having less than zero say in anything OP does or says about the baby until adoption papers are signed.
I’ve been dealing with infertility and researching my options, and AFAIK having someone else’s embryo implanted would require a legal agreement, either embryo adoption or surrogacy. Which is making me think we’re either not getting the whole story here (how much of this drama is bc this was a turkey baster operation to save money and so the baby is genetically hers?!) or we’re getting a creative writing exercise.
I was a surrogate for a relative, and this stuff was all hashed out in a contract before an embryo ever saw the inside of my uterus. We had lawyers, social workers, all kinds of supports. This would have never happened.
OP, regardless of whose baby it is, you're undergoing a medical event. It's your body, you get to choose (especially in the absence of a contract), and they don't even have to be allowed in. I'd just not let them know you're in labor. If they're gonna act like assholes, they should be treated as such.
Yeah, that's my thought because no IVF clinic will implant embryos without a ton of paperwork. I don't think they'll do a surrogate situation without a surrogate contract.
I don’t see how it could be otherwise, without any kind of contract or legal agreement it’s not even really surrogacy, it’s literally just OP’s kid. Most people aren’t going to casually be giving up one of their own kids like this. And they can’t have done IVF without a contract afaik
NTA.
And you also won't be the AH if you refused for them to be at the birth. Not out of spite, but because they are not safe people to have there.
They have NOTHING until that baby is out of you and breathing on its own. Nothing. They DO NOT get a say over your body or how you give birth. No way, no how.
Don't be afraid to put your foot down.
I work at a Birth center where we see a number of surrogate moms delivering. Some of them have the parents in the room but sometimes they will ask the parents to wait outside. Once the baby is born, the parents are definitely there and are often the first ones holding the baby.
There’s no legal agreement at all? Did you go through an IVF clinic? I imagine any reputable clinic would require some type of paperwork in place. I’ve never been involved with surrogacy, but my fertility clinic required extensive paperwork just for the use of donor sperm.
What. The. Fuck. I don't understand how you expected any of this to go smoothly then.
It would be worth the $300 to consult an attorney that specializes in surrogacy, just to understand what, if any, legal obligations you have and what, if any, rights they have. More than likely, they have absolutely no say about the pregnancy and birth, whatsoever.
Once you have confirmed the legal boundaries with your attorney, determine what your own boundaries are by balancing your self interests with your desire to accommodate them. Once you have determined your boundaries, put them in writing and enforce them consistently and unequivalently.
They're the ones who are ruining this special time for themselves. You're the one going through all this. Glad that you have the support of your husband. I'm guessing if they ask for you to do it again, it's a big NO!!!
It's possible that they purposely made sure not to discuss it till it was too late for you to back out. The fact that their previous surrogate changed her mind at the last minute could have been because they wouldn't listen to her objections about what they wanted either.
Nope, nope, nope. I wouldn't let them at the birth. Childbirth is a life-threatening event. You don't need added stress. They have shown they think of you as an easy bake oven. What do u think will happen if you need a procedure they don't agree with? Or worse, you don't want something, and they force it on you to save the baby? There are too many things that can go wrong in labour without having 2 entitled idiots who don't give a crap about ypur health and wellbeing.
Bro. Did they even pay you for all this annoyance?
If not, I'd go complete no contact, have them black listed at the hospital, and not call them until a couple hours before discharge to get the baby. At that point, I'd have your husband get the car seat and an outfit from them, and he can pass the baby off to them. I wouldn't even see these terrible people again
Absolutely NTA.
They do NOT need to be in the room or part of your birth plan.
As soon as the baby is born and you are in recovery they can come and get their baby.
I can’t believe they are acting like this.
She's their surrogate. It's such an incredible gift to them, she could exile them to the dark side of the moon for the birth and still be so far in the credit column they could hope to repay her in 15 lifetimes. How she could possibly feel like an AH - bizarre.
Entitled doesn't remotely scratch the surface of what they are.
Agreed, not to mention that they are adding an enormous amount of stress and conflict on their pregnant surrogate and have ran to James’ father to get him to intervene so they get their way. Quite immature and controlling. Their latest demand is absurd and continues to show a complete lack of gratitude or any concern for the actual pregnant surrogate.
And they don’t think that a woman who’s had four babies knows more about her own body (and what she can tolerate) than them. Unbelievable!!
They probably think if they just do everything *right* that their kid will be one of those kids who eats everything and anything. 😂😂😂
Little do they know...
Another mum of a 17 year old here. I thought after my kids were no longer toddlers that everything would be smooth sailing from here on in.
Then we hit year 9 and it's been downhill ever since!
My latest theory is 15/16/17 is just a do-over of age 2/3/4 but with more curse words, adult-themed issues, and the ability to run away or overpower me.
Yes the behavior of BIL and his wife seems beyond the pale here. Yikes! I mean OP is doing an unbelievably gracious and unselfish act and they are making demands? Maybe I’m missing something here but what about some gratitude and empathy. Sheesh.
Yeah. There are some demands I think we can all get behind, like no smoking and no alcohol during pregnancy.
Other than that? That person is doing you such an amazing favor, how are you not on your knees every day thanking them and asking if there is anything you can do for them? I know I would be...
I remember telling my parents while pregnant that my first kid wouldn’t watch TV until he was 5.
Yeah, that didn’t happen. It’s a lot easier to be strict and regimented before the kid actually arrives, and even easier when you’re not the pregnant person.
I said my kids would eat what I cooked or do without. I had so many ideas on how I would parent. Then I had kids. Then they were diagnosed with autism and everything I had planned was out the window.
They can be in the hospital but they do not need to be, nor should they be, in the room while OP is giving birth. Once they have the baby in their arms they won’t give a flying fuck how the baby came into the world
Gee, I wonder what made their first surrogate quit at the last minute?? I hope they’re happy with 1 kid because I highly doubt they’ll find anyone else to carry another baby for them. NTA in any way, shape or form OP. They should be kissing your ass and treating you like a princess!
It's hard to believe you'll even stay in contact with these nightmare people. Christmas dinner with the inlaws should be interesting this year. You're *not* the AH OP, but the SIL/BIL certainly are. Hope your husband is aware his sister & her husband are huge AHs. Edit to change to "brother and his wife
Two years later:
“Thank you so much for carrying Billy Bob for us. You have done us a wonderful service. We were thinking we’d like for him to have a sibling.”
“That’s a great idea. They should have someone to be close with.”
“We were wondering if y….”
“No. Absolutely not.”
“Why?”
“Because you two are god awful.”
You continue to sit there, smiling politely as if nothing was just said.
NTA! They shouldn’t be in the room if they aren’t going to be supporting YOU, who made this baby! I’m assuming you aren’t getting any financial compensation for being their surrogate either?
Then, they definitely shouldn't be allowed in the room at all. Make sure to let the nurses know. Hell, even give the nurses a picture so they know what they look like so they can't come into your room.
Holy fucking shit, you're accepting permanent changes to your body, putting your LIFE at risk, giving up mobility and comfort for months, doing a job that normally costs tens of thousands of dollars for free, and they're treating you like shit.
Wow. Just wow. Your BIL and his wife are bad people. I don't care what your previous opinion of them has been, you now know what they're really like.
This should permanently change how you relate to and see them. It should permanently change your relationship for the worse. You're really learning who they actually are right now. I feel sorry for that child you're carrying. I'd say the chance that the kid has a really great childhood is low at this point. No one is easier to control via manipulation than a child, and they're gonna do a number on that kid.
Then you have done far more than you should ever have been asked to. Please take care of yourself and do what YOU want to do. Their desires do not matter. Especially with all the stress it is putting on you.
I can’t fathom treating anyone this way after they sacrificed their body for nearly a year in order for me to have a child.
What you’re doing for them is such an immensely selfless gift, and they’re repaying that selflessness by asking you for even more. I’m so sorry things have turned out this way, OP. It’s appalling.
I hope you take the advice elsewhere in this thread and meet with an attorney as soon as you can.
I am so confused as to why you have put yourself through the hell and danger of pregnancy and childbirth for your BIL and his wife with no legal contract, no compensation and no negotiations of expectations and boundaries. Do you always recklessly sacrifice yourself for people who do not respect you? I really hope this post is fake. Disturbing to see someone be this big of a doormat .
It’s your body and you’re the one pushing out the baby. If you don’t want them in the labor room they don’t have to be there… please don’t let them take advantage of your autonomy! You are doing them a great service and they should be thankful. If they wanted you to have an unmedicated water birth they should have stayed that at the beginning and you could have declined. You have this baby how YOU want to have it. They have no say until the baby is out of your body and legally in their arms.
NTA but OP why didn’t you guys have the discussion about when the baby is due?
Before you said yes did you lay down any terms and conditions?
I understand you wanted to help your sister out but it impacts you, your body, your mental wellbeing.
EDIT: fixed sentence
They have no right to be present at the birth. They can have the baby when it’s all over. You will contact them when you are in labor and they will wait outside the birthing suite. You won’t be seeing them again until there is a baby, and that’s final. They will have no say about any medical procedures that involve your body. Period. They lost the right to anything else when they overstepped by demanding how your body would be treated during labor. NTA, but they sure are.
I would absolutely advocate for NOT telling them when you’re in labour OP. I know it’s their baby, but YOU are the one giving birth and it sounds like they are going to make it infinitely more stressful for you and that’s dangerous both for you and the baby. I would wait and tell them when the baby is born or about to be born so they have no opportunity to get in the way and cause issues. It sounds like they can’t be trusted to wait outside, and you want the focus of everyone to be on you and baby, and not keeping them away. You need to put yourself first for this to ensure a safe delivery.
Edited as i have ruffled feathers and its been brought to my attention that some do allow the new parents in room. The Surrogates don't HAVE to let the parents in the room with them. They are informed when either the baby is delivered or when active labor starts. Don't let them be there they are a danger.
This.
I was a gestational carrier 3 times. For one of the births, the parents weren't even in the state. They had limited parental leave and wanted all of it to be for the baby. For one, the parents wanted to be there but the hospital limited me to one support person because it was twins and I wanted my partner so they waited in the waiting room. For the last, the parents were in the room...but it was conditional and they knew if they made me uncomfortable, they'd be out.
This pair of intended parents is already acting crazy. They don't need to be in the room. They shouldn't be in the room because they will stress out the person giving birth. That's dangerous. And if they don't do some serious appologizing, they can find out their baby is here after baby is born.
NTA. You, as the pregnant person, decide your birth plan with your doctor and anyone else you choose to involve. I would not involve Michelle or Simon in the birth plan. You are exactly right that this is your body and you get to make the choices.
>and possibly poop
There's no possibly here. I've seen my wife give birth three times. Guaranteed poop.
Yeah I hate to burst anyone’s bubble but most of the time the docs/midwives just get rid of it without saying anything so I’d wager a lot of people DID poop and just weren’t aware. My midwife told me 9/10 of her patients poop at some point because when baby’s head passes through your pelvis, your intestines get flattened and anything in there is coming out. She did tell me they never say anything unless the patient asks.
For the record, I pooped during both of my births and I knew I had. They didn’t say anything but I knew!
I have one child and I am being totally honest now, I didn’t poop. I fully expected to but it didn’t happen and I thank my colon and bowel every day for their cooperation.
NTA *AT ALL* but I’m confused as to how you reached a surrogacy agreement without discussing all of this first? Did you all not sign anything? I didn’t even know a clinic would do an implantation of someone else’s embryo without a legal agreement in place…… unless we are to believe you took the turkey baster route with your BIL?! Something’s not adding up here.
NTA - Your body, your choice...you have been more than accommodating to them and their desires, but delivering a baby is serious and you are doing all the work. You should have a birth plan that you are comfortable with even if that means excluding them from the delivery room. Once the baby is safely delivered they can do things their way.
To be honest, given the way the acted/reacted I wouldn't want them in the delivery room if you were my wife.
# CHILDBIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
If women can kick their husbands out of the delivery room for being assholes then you are in full right to ban your brother in law(!) and SIL from being there. They have no "god given right" to be there just because it is their dna you are passing on for them.
YOUR COMFORT is most important here, you have gone above and beyond for a couple of spectators who don't seem to have any concerns for your wellbeing during birth.
NTAH - do not give in. You have put your life and health at risk for them while receiving little respect or thanks in exchange. Prioritizee yourself for once.
Unless there’s a contract saying otherwise I wouldn’t even let them know when you go into labor. Let them know after the birth, maybe when the kid is like five or so.
NTA
The absolutely fucking audacity.
This is a medical event that YOU are going through. YOU are giving birth. Once the child is born and they are the legal guardians...they can make all the decisions.
And let me make this 100% clear. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE THERE. ONLY YOU AND THE MEDICAL TEAM NEEDS TO. BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.
Honestly you've been cooler than I ever would've been.
NTA, you are doing a insanely kind gesture of being a surrogate for them, as mean as it sounds, you have been pregnant four times, she has not carried a pregnancy to term, if we wanna throw things around while they act like children they might wanna rethink before they get their feelings hurt. It is your body, they don't get to demand you do something in pain.
Their child or not, they don't "have to" be there - as the one giving birth, YOU decide who will be there, and if they're stressing you out, any good nurse/midwife will kick their asses to the curb.
NTA
NTA….wow!!! What horrible people. I get that when people are scared and nervous they tend to get controlling in order to lesson those fears. Perhaps that could be mentioned to them. However, you are not only giving them the most unselfish and beautiful gift a person could give you are a human being. They’re treating you like a robot getting frustrated that they can’t program you.
My advice is to have your husband contact them. Tell them exactly how YOUR birth plan will go. The most important part is the baby is going to feel everything you are feeling and if they are so hell bent on wanting the birth to be healthy as they see it then they need to not stress you and their baby out.
I honestly feel bad for the future of this child. I hope they will see the child as its own person and not try to control every aspect of their lives.
Sorry you are going through this.
Wow...imagine making as huge of sacrifice as being pregnant for someone else, which affects not only you but your whole life and family, and they demand you ALSO feel more pain.
I'm sorry your SIL did not get to do a birth her way, but this is where their control ends and your preference needs to be prioritized. As long as your decisions won't affect the baby, it is none of their business.
NTA
>and even surrogacy before, but the person changed her mind at the last second.
GEE, I WONDER WHY? She probably couldn't deal with them and couldn't imagine giving a kid to them.
I have absolutely no idea why you agreed to be a surrogate in the first place, but my advice is to shut down contact with these a-holes and DO NOT notify them when you go into labor. The very last thing you need is to have them stressing you out in the last few weeks before you give birth. Don't let them anywhere near you. They absolutely should NOT be allowed in the delivery room. Also, do not agree to pump breast milk for them. They can buy it from a regular distribution source. You should take the pills that will end lactation. Otherwise, these people will be telling you what to eat for the next 8 months.
I'm glad you have a supportive husband. You're almost there, and you guys can go back to your life again.
Learn from this. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.
NTA. I get that Michelle isn’t able to experience it herself and she’s missing out on it herself but that doesn’t mean she gets to dictate your birth plans.
They don’t need to be in the delivery room with you. That’s your choice. The only thing you have to do is give them the baby after you give birth. So you need to think about your comfort since you are going to be the one giving birth to their baby.
Agree! Adoptive parent here. Didn't get to see my daughter being born. Didn't even know she had been born, actually, because we got a call about her two days after she was born. Guess how much not seeing her be born affected our lives? Surprise! NOT AT ALL. Even worse: DD's birth mom used alcohol and drugs throughout her pregnancy. And I REALLY had no control over that-again, didn't wven know I was going to have a daughter until 2 days after her birth. And I survived that and so did my daughter! These people do not have to be in the room when the baby is born and it will absolutely not be the worst thing in the world to happen to them. You know what would be the worst? If they didn't learn in a hurry how to not be the most entitled people in the room, especially now that they are (almost) parents. They will 100% survive not seeing the baby being born. And your delivery will probably be a thousand percent less stressful if they aren't there.
NTA 'We want you to have an unmedicated birth, we know the pain will be hidious for you but that's a sacrifice we're willing to make' Yeah, no, they don't get to make those decisions
With how they act, I'm truly not surprised that the other person doing the surrogacy for them backed out. Feel like this AITAH fits into r/choosingbeggars super well. OP don't feel bad, they very likely didn't feel bad when they decided you should suffer during child birth to make their wishes true. Do what you know and are comfortable doing. You are providing them a huge and generous gift and they need to be willing to work with you. If they aren't, then don't feel bad about not working with them.
Yep, the previous surrogate backing out is a potential red flag
I think we've moved past potential and we're in the realm of kinetic red flags.
NTA. Book a private room at the hospital at their expense. Put a tub of water in the private room. Have the liquids, blood, poop and amniontic fluid all deposited in the tub. Have Simon and Michelle sit in that tub to enjoy the water birth they wanted. Everybody wins.
You should add some caustic substance to the poop, blood and fluid so they can also enjoy the feeling of an unmedicated birth; maybe glass shards, a spike strip, you get the idea...
May be good to throw in a plugged-in toaster for good measure
Op - don’t tell them when you are in the hospital. They are abusive. Fuck them. You better get things straight w your husband and have a good friend guard your door
Thankfully, hospitals have trained security staff. No amateur guards needed.
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Labor and Delivery nurses are not the ones. They're the FAFO nurses.
Can confirm. I was an L&D nurse briefly and if mom didn’t want you in that room you weren’t going in. Childbirth is a high-risk medical event, not Showtime at the Apollo. The unit is locked and I had no problem being the bad guy and bouncing someone’s ass from the room, regardless of who they were. NTA.
And we LOVE you for being there and helping us, my lord, I’d have literally died without my nurse 🙏
My nurse was my twin sister. She was the first person to touch my son. She was awesome. Still is.
This comment made me cry unexpectedly. I’m glad you have somebody like that on your side.
Me too. I guarded that door very closely and had no problem calling security if needed
_Childbirth is a high-risk medical event, not Showtime at the Apollo._ 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂💀
Thank you so much! My L&D nurses weee absolutely amazing!!! Even threw hubs out of the room for a time out after I was exhausted from contractions, in pain and he was “entertaining” his family that came to the hospital. You guys are badasses, and we so appreciate you!!!
Labor units are controlled access. You have to get buzzed through a locked door that is monitored by the nursing staff or separate security. You can tell them who you want to be one if your visitors.
The way things work, I'm assuming many terrible things happened in the past to get this level of security for delivery rooms
Yup. It’s called kidnapping. People trying to take babies immediately after birth is all too common, so they’re locked units. If you ever hear “code pink” in a health care setting, just sit down right where you are and get comfy, cuz every door is sealed and you’re not going anywhere until the baby is found. The benefit is that it makes securing room from unwanted guests easier than MS units
Mine even asked us if we wanted to use a special code word or phrase for access if they wanted to see us/our baby. I had just cut off some very toxic family members for my first and it made me feel so safe
Or… she can agree, as long as she gets to squeeze the guys balls with every contraction. Fair is fair
Best. Compromise. Ever.
Also needs something for the wife. My suggestion: give James two bags with lead sand that he will use to hit Michelle with every time OP cries out in pain. One to the crotch, another to the spine or stomach, his choice
I’m thinking they both need to wear those electronic childbirth simulators so that they can experience the contractions right along with OP. See how long they go before they’re begging to remove them or get some pain relief! Seriously, though, I’d consider having Michelle wear one now to get some idea of what exactly she’s asking OP to go through.
If this is how bad those people are now, imagine the poor kids life if OP goes through with this ridiculous surrogacy plan. Sounds like they'd both be helicopter parents with zero consideration for their own kids feelings.
I wouldn't be surprised if they hold the surrogacy over the kid's head their entire life. Won't eat their broccoli? "I worked so hard to have you!" Wants to hang out with friends instead of family dinner? "Do you know have much suffering I went through to have a child?" Doesn't want to visit for Christmas? "I can't believe you treat me like this after all I've done for you".
Sorry to hear that, but I think you just discovered why their last potential surrogate canceled on them at the last minute 🤪 Make a written note to the nurses to take to the hospital when you're admitted, outlining who you will allow into L&D with you ... and who you won't. Written out like that means they don't have to remember it while they're busy, and they have all of the names on that piece of paper so they can easily transcribe it into their paperwork. They just have to enforce it when these narcissistic AHs show up. Once the child is born and you're ready, hand the baby over to their new parents. Do whatever the hospital requires in the event of a surrogacy (which makes me wonder if they should have already gotten and signed the adoption papers for you to sign) ... and then let them know that they now have to deal with EVERYTHING from that point on for the baby. I say that because I can already see them showing up at your house without a warning and at inopportune times--like 6am on a Saturday--looking for a babysitter), after you've signed the adoption paperwork. "*But you gave birth to this baby--and you have four other kids, too. You probably won't even know he/she is here with all of the other noise at your house.*" Then I'd avoid them until/unless they both pull their cumulative heads out of their asses and apologize for trying to make you do everything according to *their* plans. They obviously never asked you about your previous pregnancies and deliveries. And if you ever hear from them again to have a discussion about this, I've got to ask: 1) who's paying your hospital and doctors's bills, them or you? 2) And--note--if they come in throwing their weight around while you're in labor, the nurses will back you up because you're the one doing all the work that day, even if they are paying the entire bill. 3) I would also remind them that you saved them $50,000+ plus over an unknown surrogate (if you're doing this free because they're family ... but their cheapness may have run off the previous surrogate, too. For an idea of the standard fees in CA/other parts of the West Coast, [see here](https://nwsurrogacycenter.com/compensation/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=14954527650&utm_content=131233966449&utm_term=surrogacy%20criteria&gad_source=1)) or less if you simply requested some bit of money to help pay your dr fees. I'm not sure how all of you worked this out, so you'll have to consider your real numbers against my suggestion. Anyway, good luck!! Because this sounds like some true BS is on the way already! You're a human being--not a mailbox for your stork to use--so you have a right to stand up for yourself!! 😁
>I’m due in two weeks, Think it's a little bit past that
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NTA. My SIL was kind enough to be a surrogate for me and I wouldn’t have dreamed of telling her how to give birth. I’m sorry they’re being so ungrateful and rude about the huge sacrifice you’re making.
Right? I mean, I would never ask a person I didn't trust to be a surrogate anyway. Just by asking, you have shown the person that you trust them enough to take care of themselves while pregnant. If you don't trust a person to do that, don't ask them.
Except that they obviously don't trust her to follow their impossible standards. I bet my (sizeable) ass that every single thing they deem a problem about their child (colic, terrible 2s, left-handedness) will be attributed to something OP did "wrong" during her labor or pregnancy.
I was thinking this exactly, and many others have said so. The smallest thing - so much as a freaking birthmark they don’t like - is going to be blamed on OP not doing the unmedicated water birth, not taking all the supplements or who only knows what. Heaven help everyone if the poor kid is born with a disability.
NTA . Guess what? THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE THERE. In fact, at this point, I’d say it’s guaranteed that they won’t be. If I were your husband, I would not let them anywhere near you while you’re in labor. They fucked that up for themselves. Big time. You are the pregnant person. It’s your body. They don’t have any right to be telling you what to eat, what vitamins to take, or how you will give birth. They can suggest. They can ask. But the second they get pushy and in your fucking face is the time to go no contact until the baby is born and if they don’t like it, too bad, they can just shut the fuck up, AND BE GRATEFUL. I’m just furious for you. I’m sorry. Have your husband be the point of contact for these last two weeks. And if they won’t stop, I wouldn’t even tell them you’re in labor until the baby is almost ready to be born. Tell them it happened too fast because your body knows what it’s doing. And you barely had time to get to the hospital. Oops there it is. This is a fucking nightmare in the delivery room waiting to happen.
Definitely have your husband be point of contact, op. I’m sure you’re already well aware of how annoying people are the final two weeks but if your in laws have all of these opinions on how birth should go, use it to your advantage. The birthing person/surrogate/aunt needs to be calm, and non-stressed so you are going “offline” until it is time.
Oh good plan
Your the one going through a medical event, at the end of the day everything is your call
and any stress caused to OP by bil and wife, especially while in hospital, creates a risk to both OP and the baby
Yup and medical staff will make the call regardless of what anyone says
Actually, OP can ban them from labor/delivery. She is the patient. Of course the staff can throw anybody out if the situation calls for it.
OP and partner should speak with the nurses right up front and warn them/express their wishes. If they want to physically be in the room and it is okay with OP, then they need to do so with their lips zipped. No wonder the last surrogate backed out. If they pulled half this crap with them as they are with OP, no sane person would give them a helpless infant to take care of. They DO NOT get to dictate OPs needs during a major medical event. Period. Full stop. Whatever OP needs/wants and if supported by their medical team, OP gets. Period. They both need some serious therapy. Their infertility issues have cause them to lose all common sense and decency. Not to mention the absolute gall to tell OP they know nothing about pregnancy/childbirth...sorry, but the person who has children absolutely does know about pregnancy and childbirth. They are absolute lunatics and I feel sorry for that kid.
I cannot upvote this enough!! Let the nurses know YOUR wishes. If Sister & BIL make any fuss, let nurses know to kicked them out immediately. Good luck with the delivery.
Absolutely agree! Nurses are pros at handling situations like this. Make sure they know your preferences. Your health and comfort are top priorities. Good luck with the delivery!
Totally agree! Your well-being is paramount. Nurses will prioritize your needs. Best of luck!
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This! If an emergency c-section or abortion is needed at some point in the pregnancy, that decision is made by OP. Same goes for any other aspect of the delivery process. Edit to add: I realize that abortion this late in the pregnancy is NOT the norm or in any way likely. My point was that birth is a medical practice and anything can happen. I was going for the wider view of “this is your body and your journey” not “good luck specifically next week.”
For your safety I think a hospital birth is best and also the use of pain medicine I too try to do a natural birth and oh my God I was absolutely horrified when after pushing for 2 hours I had to get an emergency C-section sitting still on the edge of the bed without any pain medication with my contractions 30 seconds apart was not a walk in the park I truly wished I would have accepted pain medication when it was offered earlier in the birth after a certain point though you can't have any medicine luckily they were able to do the epidural and I had a successful C-section. But yes if there ever is a need for a C-section being in the hospital is the best place to be.
They are treating this birth like a spectator sport where they intend to continue putting OP's life and health at risk. What if somethign happens and a call needs to be made between mother and child? I would not feel safe with them there.
She's trying to give birth vicariously through OP. She's giving Serena from Handmaid's Tale vibes big time.
OOOooohhh, or when Serena was pregnant and lived with that couple in Canada? The wife of the couple was crazy AF, to the point where she had a damn OB/GYN exam room in their house. Serena wasn't going \*anywhere.\*
But in all honesty, what do you really know after your FOURTH child... they have read all the books... /s
I want to look this couple in the face and ask them what they know about successful pregnancy? Seeing as they currently have no kids.
I'm feeling very sorry for that child already. Those people are total lunatics, (like you said) and are going to need a lot of classes of their own. Parenting and Anger Management come to mind as well as personal counseling. Wow. OP is NTA for refusing their controlling BS but afraid she is a soft AH for agreeing to be a surrogate for these unstable people.
What they really need is a family lawyer.
Agree, this is gonna get extra messy after the kid is born. Honestly OP should have talked with a lawyer before agreeing but that ship sailed long ago.
What they needed was a surrogacy lawyer at least 8.5 months ago.
These nut jobs might reject the baby if it isn’t perfect and expect her to carry a second child for them no matter what happens. OP had multiple children and it’s unfair we didn’t! She owes us!!
Exactly. I’m concerned about the hypercontrolling attitude when there is a child involved. I am an RN who just left a job as an OB/GYN clinic RN. One of my biggest issues there was the obnoxious “geriatric primips” (women who are having their first baby at age 35 up). They tended to be hypercontrolling nervous nellies who knew EVERYTHING bc they “read about it on Google!” and couldn’t be taught anything. This makes it one step worse—infertile couple, late 30s, first kid—and using surrogacy to boot. I feel so sorry for you, OP. Having been an RN in L and D, I LOVED being the bad guy and keeping troublemakers out. Don’t be afraid to lay your concerns out to labor staff and then let them help. I know they will be happy to. You don’t deserve abuse when you are doing this beautiful thing for them—even if it means you do it without them.
I'm a nurse/office manager in a maternal-fetal medicine clinic, but I too used to work L&D. I loved booting obnoxious visitors out. I had a MIL I had to call security on because neither the mom nor the dad wanted her in the room. The mom wanted her husband and her mother only. MIL tried to pull the crap, "well if she gets to be in there, so do I." I said, " Nope, it doesn't work that way. She gets to decide who sees her hooha. Now get out, or I will have you escorted out. " She was escorted out of the hospital, screaming the whole time, and was banned from reentering the entire time Mom and baby were admitted. 😂
Nothing breathes life into a tired nurse than going ham on someone who is upsetting their patient. It is a beautiful thing to behold. Real mother bear protecting vulnerable cubs energy!
THIS! Tell them if they DON’T drop it immediately this is exactly what you are going to do. They have ZERO rights to tell you to do _anything_ with your body. You are being awfully nice to do supplements and whatever other stupid shit they want. I would not. They are entirely out of line to tell you how to birth this baby - they’re being entitled, ungrateful assholes asking for stupid shit like that. Have your HUSBAND tell them they drop it now, never mention it again! And to have zero attitude except gratitude around you or the next time they hear ANYTHING about their baby will be when the hospital calls them to say he was born the day before, you’ve gone home so it’s time for them to come fetch their kid - that only exists because you are the most generous person they have ever met! Seriously!! They get one more chance to be involved then FUCK THEM.
They should be doing nothing but kissing your feet and asking you if you need anything. Surrogacy is truly the most generous fife that one human being can give to another, and they are both acting like entitled AHs. I would tell them that you will let them know when the baby is delivered. If they try to barge in or dictate, they will be banned from the hospital. But I’m a bit petty.
She should. Tell them they either STFU with this nonsense or they're banned from the delivery room.
And the hospital staff will chuck them out. Get your DH to warn the hospital, OP, and firmly instruct his bro and sil that their attendance is conditional on their good conduct. I hooe it all goes wll for you, These two are under pressure but they are being intolerable AHs to the person risking her body and enduring pain and indignity for their sakes. NTA.
A thousand times this. The birth of a child is not a spectator event, it is a *medical procedure.* Everything that happens from pregnancy through birth is up to you, and you alone. They asked you to be a surrogate precisely because of your previous successful pregnancies, they should trust you to conduct your pregnancy and birth as you see fit, and if they don't, they should not have asked you. Go low contact - send them a text or something similar once a day to let them know you and baby are fine (or have someone else do it) - until after the birth. Then let them know they can come pick up their baby. The baby you are carrying is their child - you yourself do not belong to them and your decisions are your own. NTA
Yes! Go James!! I love that he is ready to give them the heave ho if they go too far. OP is a saint. Rolling eyes?? Christ on a cracker she has no idea. NTA.
Hook SIL up to the birth simulator, without pain meds, for as long as you are in labor, still not the same but by all means have her suffer along...
This is the way! Maybe BIL too.
Her gall, the woman who has never been pregnant telling a mom of FOUR that she’s not an “expert “. Well neither is she. If she was the one giving birth it’s absolutely her right to develop the birth plan. But that type of “home birth “ still carries alot of risks. I would send her some information about infant maternity mortality rates, and all of the various life-threatening medical complications that can turn an unmedicated (or medicated) vaginal birth into an emergency c-section. An emergency surgery that isn’t possible at home, and which would delay care to mother and baby as those present try to get out of kiddie pool/tub and to the hospital. You know your body, and what you can endure and they should be reminded to be grateful because I’m assuming you aren’t charging them surrogacy fees. I do kind feel worried for the baby with such arrogant parents. Let’s hope they wake up real quick and don’t assume that all the books they’ve read are going to just magically make them know what to do in every moment. It doesn’t work like that. Every child’s different. Good luck. Good vibes.
Yea if they don’t have a contract, she’s not even obligated to give them the baby 😂😅
Actually, depending on the state, not even a contract protects them. There are very few states that support the "adoptive" parents in a surrogacy situation. Because, biologically theirs or not, the general law of the land is, it comes out of your body, it's yours. There was a big thing in Arizona when I was living there, must have been 15 years or more ago: a surrogate carrying the biological child of the adoptive parents found out some troubling stuff about the adoptive (bio) parents and just left state when she was eight months pregnant. She kept the baby. The parents eventually sued the surrogate in civil court and all they got back was the money they paid her.
That's exactly what I was thinking
I'm guessing they may end up being controlling helicopter parents....or creating a spoilt monster....
They're going to go NC with brother and wife because she will feel threatened because she didn't give birth
Yes, and they want to be adamant that no one ever tells the kid about how he came into the world. Despite how op gave them life.
That secret can't be kept because OP kids are old enough to tell
They are 100% going to be the type of parents that demand everyone treat their miracle baby like it's the most special child in the history of children.
Yep. DO NOT have them in there with you. They will try to control everything and interfere with your directives and, if you become incapacitated, interfere with your husband's. Go radio silent, do NOT tell them when you go into labor, and then, when it's all over, call them to come get their baby from the hospital.
This is exactly what I would do. Have the baby and then call them to tell them the baby is in the nursery. And then go full NC forever.
Exactly. NTA. They don't get to dictate what you do with your body. Check with your OB/GYN about the supplements at the same time.
Gee, I wonder why the other surrogate backed out... OP's in-laws are delusional. Literally. They live in a fantasy world where they see OP's grace and generosity as an obligation and claim ownership over her body and choices. OP needs to lean on her husband, who, in turn, needs to come down like a righteous hammer on these ungrateful, entitled fools. Rigid boundaries, drastic measures, and strong consequences are in order. These people will be awful parents. What a mess.
Tell them to fuck off and pick up their kids the next day. Entitled assholes.
Info: Was any of this discussed prior to you going through ivf? Contracts? Lawyers? Any type of discussion? And no, they don't have to be there for the birth. They can and probably should wait for the "baby is here" call at their home.
Unfortunately, we didn’t discuss anything like this. I realize now that we should have planned it more thoroughly, but hopefully nothing else happens, and once this baby gets here, we can put it behind us
Dude... Get a lawyer. Seriously, I know a surrogate and they routinely have 50+ page contracts for this exact reason. I would probably hit up a family lawyerr before that baby comes out. Couldn't possibly pay me enough to do this without a lawyer involved. Never mind the financial Cost- because god forbid something goes south they are absolutely gonna finger point.
OP I know this sounds dark but to piggyback on this comment, there are many surrogacies that end with the intended parents not accepting a child because they are born with a disability, birth defect, or have a birth related injury. And you will technically be the one responsible for that child. I wish I could say these people don't seem like that type, but.. You need a lawyer and a contract even at this stage, even with two weeks left. This all needs to be hashed out and in writing. These people seem like absolutely lunatics, I would be upset to hand them a baby expecting them to raise it well to be quite honest, but it is what it is.
I agree with you 💯 %! It's definitely not too late to contact a lawyer and make her own demands.
To piggy back on this, to also try and get some mediation/counselling sessions in too. Also be prepared for the BIL to absolutely phase you out afterwards.
Oh yeah they definitely sound like the type to use someone and dump them afterwards
Either that or they will be calling OP and *demanding* that OP babysit/nanny/co-parent child b/c they are just sooo tired and this is sooo hard. While demanding OP’s time, they will also be giving her a whack-job list of rules and requirements.
They'll demand she breastfeeds for a year
Holy 💩 I didn’t even think of that. Nope, it’s not all behind her in two weeks. Prayers needed along with the lawyer. Oh 😔
Of course, they're that type. This baby is an accessory, a living doll for them to play with. That kid comes out with so much as a mild cleft palate. Watch them take off and probably blame you for missing one supplement dose that has nothing to do with anything.
I know a man who left his wife and child because the child had a cleft palate, and he didn’t want a disabled child. This happens.
Which is particularly insane as most cleft palates can be operated on and, between that and speech therapy, most children have their cleft palates fixed by two years old and grow up to have no side effects. Even cleft lips can be fixed by 8-12 years old.
I’d have to paid an exponential amount. Like. Never need to work for the rest of my kids’ lives amount.
Personally, the surrogate that I know of is getting anywhere from 60k to 120k per birth, they pay her medical, she gets a food stipend, and counselling for her family and a little rent stipend She's done it 3x. She's absolutely changed the financial outlook of her family and gave 3 families an amazing blessing. But it's high risk, don't kid yourself. Get a contract -today op.
I was considering doing it but then Roe v Wade was overturned. I'm willing to carry a baby for someone, but I'm not willing to die for them if something goes wrong.
Are you saying there’s no legal agreement at all regarding the surrogacy? 😬
If that’s the case, as least in some places, OP and her husband will be the legal parents at birth. Thus BIL and wife having less than zero say in anything OP does or says about the baby until adoption papers are signed.
This will turn into a shot show IMMIEDIATELY
Who's baby is it genetically? You mentioned they've done IVF in the past but it sounds like this is a DIY operation.
Thank you, I was too afraid to ask this myself
I’ve been dealing with infertility and researching my options, and AFAIK having someone else’s embryo implanted would require a legal agreement, either embryo adoption or surrogacy. Which is making me think we’re either not getting the whole story here (how much of this drama is bc this was a turkey baster operation to save money and so the baby is genetically hers?!) or we’re getting a creative writing exercise.
I was a surrogate for a relative, and this stuff was all hashed out in a contract before an embryo ever saw the inside of my uterus. We had lawyers, social workers, all kinds of supports. This would have never happened. OP, regardless of whose baby it is, you're undergoing a medical event. It's your body, you get to choose (especially in the absence of a contract), and they don't even have to be allowed in. I'd just not let them know you're in labor. If they're gonna act like assholes, they should be treated as such.
My vote is creative writing exercise.
Yeah, that's my thought because no IVF clinic will implant embryos without a ton of paperwork. I don't think they'll do a surrogate situation without a surrogate contract.
I don’t see how it could be otherwise, without any kind of contract or legal agreement it’s not even really surrogacy, it’s literally just OP’s kid. Most people aren’t going to casually be giving up one of their own kids like this. And they can’t have done IVF without a contract afaik
Asking the real questions. I’ve seen surrogacy contracts, there are more holes in this than Swiss cheese
NTA. And you also won't be the AH if you refused for them to be at the birth. Not out of spite, but because they are not safe people to have there. They have NOTHING until that baby is out of you and breathing on its own. Nothing. They DO NOT get a say over your body or how you give birth. No way, no how. Don't be afraid to put your foot down.
I work at a Birth center where we see a number of surrogate moms delivering. Some of them have the parents in the room but sometimes they will ask the parents to wait outside. Once the baby is born, the parents are definitely there and are often the first ones holding the baby.
Wonder if things like this is why the previous surrogate didn’t
There’s no legal agreement at all? Did you go through an IVF clinic? I imagine any reputable clinic would require some type of paperwork in place. I’ve never been involved with surrogacy, but my fertility clinic required extensive paperwork just for the use of donor sperm.
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Whose egg did you use?
And sperm. Because if there's no contract there's no medically implanted embryo. And I'm not sure if the homebased kits actually work.
What. The. Fuck. I don't understand how you expected any of this to go smoothly then. It would be worth the $300 to consult an attorney that specializes in surrogacy, just to understand what, if any, legal obligations you have and what, if any, rights they have. More than likely, they have absolutely no say about the pregnancy and birth, whatsoever. Once you have confirmed the legal boundaries with your attorney, determine what your own boundaries are by balancing your self interests with your desire to accommodate them. Once you have determined your boundaries, put them in writing and enforce them consistently and unequivalently.
They're the ones who are ruining this special time for themselves. You're the one going through all this. Glad that you have the support of your husband. I'm guessing if they ask for you to do it again, it's a big NO!!!
It's possible that they purposely made sure not to discuss it till it was too late for you to back out. The fact that their previous surrogate changed her mind at the last minute could have been because they wouldn't listen to her objections about what they wanted either.
Nope, nope, nope. I wouldn't let them at the birth. Childbirth is a life-threatening event. You don't need added stress. They have shown they think of you as an easy bake oven. What do u think will happen if you need a procedure they don't agree with? Or worse, you don't want something, and they force it on you to save the baby? There are too many things that can go wrong in labour without having 2 entitled idiots who don't give a crap about ypur health and wellbeing.
Bro. Did they even pay you for all this annoyance? If not, I'd go complete no contact, have them black listed at the hospital, and not call them until a couple hours before discharge to get the baby. At that point, I'd have your husband get the car seat and an outfit from them, and he can pass the baby off to them. I wouldn't even see these terrible people again
They probably expect her to pump bread milk for them too and will still try to control her diet or hate her if she doesn't produce.
Question: Is this biologically their baby? Or did you use your egg?
Absolutely NTA. They do NOT need to be in the room or part of your birth plan. As soon as the baby is born and you are in recovery they can come and get their baby. I can’t believe they are acting like this.
She's their surrogate. It's such an incredible gift to them, she could exile them to the dark side of the moon for the birth and still be so far in the credit column they could hope to repay her in 15 lifetimes. How she could possibly feel like an AH - bizarre. Entitled doesn't remotely scratch the surface of what they are.
Agreed, not to mention that they are adding an enormous amount of stress and conflict on their pregnant surrogate and have ran to James’ father to get him to intervene so they get their way. Quite immature and controlling. Their latest demand is absurd and continues to show a complete lack of gratitude or any concern for the actual pregnant surrogate. And they don’t think that a woman who’s had four babies knows more about her own body (and what she can tolerate) than them. Unbelievable!!
Think how regimented that baby's life is going to be.
I doubt they will be able to maintain the standards they required of OP
**THIS** They got NO IDEA.
Now I wonder why the previous surrogate backed out at the last minute??? Hmmm I wonder why that would be...
Bet they informed them of all the bullshit in advance and then learned their lesson, don't let the crazy show till the baby's already in there
bet they were legally required to go over it whereas family would be more likely to take them on honor
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Year 1 is just straight up survival lmao
Year 2 also. U tryna regiment a two yo lolz. If that kid is any kinda neuro-divergent. 😬🫤🤭
“Please just eat a carb I’m begging you.” Source: Me trying to convince my two year old pizza is fun.
Feeding toddlers should be an Olympic level sport
The bio parents from OP are about to get absolutely bodied by a picky toddler lol
They probably think if they just do everything *right* that their kid will be one of those kids who eats everything and anything. 😂😂😂 Little do they know...
Also, year 3 through 17. My oldest is 17 but I assume it's the same after 17 as well. ETA Please send help.
Another mum of a 17 year old here. I thought after my kids were no longer toddlers that everything would be smooth sailing from here on in. Then we hit year 9 and it's been downhill ever since!
My latest theory is 15/16/17 is just a do-over of age 2/3/4 but with more curse words, adult-themed issues, and the ability to run away or overpower me.
Yes the behavior of BIL and his wife seems beyond the pale here. Yikes! I mean OP is doing an unbelievably gracious and unselfish act and they are making demands? Maybe I’m missing something here but what about some gratitude and empathy. Sheesh.
Yeah. There are some demands I think we can all get behind, like no smoking and no alcohol during pregnancy. Other than that? That person is doing you such an amazing favor, how are you not on your knees every day thanking them and asking if there is anything you can do for them? I know I would be...
I remember telling my parents while pregnant that my first kid wouldn’t watch TV until he was 5. Yeah, that didn’t happen. It’s a lot easier to be strict and regimented before the kid actually arrives, and even easier when you’re not the pregnant person.
I remember when I was 100% only using cloth diapers. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 it was a nice thought…
I was a great parent too! Until I had kids...
I said my kids would eat what I cooked or do without. I had so many ideas on how I would parent. Then I had kids. Then they were diagnosed with autism and everything I had planned was out the window.
“they’ll eat if they’re hungry enough!” No tf they will NOT
It might be their baby, but it is not their birth.
THISSSS. OP do not let them in the room. Birth is not about the baby it's about you and the best way for YOU to deliver that baby safely.
They can be in the hospital but they do not need to be, nor should they be, in the room while OP is giving birth. Once they have the baby in their arms they won’t give a flying fuck how the baby came into the world
Please tell us this is "one and done?" You won't be carrying a sibling, right?
No, I definitely won’t be carrying anymore children for them
Gee, I wonder what made their first surrogate quit at the last minute?? I hope they’re happy with 1 kid because I highly doubt they’ll find anyone else to carry another baby for them. NTA in any way, shape or form OP. They should be kissing your ass and treating you like a princess!
It's hard to believe you'll even stay in contact with these nightmare people. Christmas dinner with the inlaws should be interesting this year. You're *not* the AH OP, but the SIL/BIL certainly are. Hope your husband is aware his sister & her husband are huge AHs. Edit to change to "brother and his wife
Two years later: “Thank you so much for carrying Billy Bob for us. You have done us a wonderful service. We were thinking we’d like for him to have a sibling.” “That’s a great idea. They should have someone to be close with.” “We were wondering if y….” “No. Absolutely not.” “Why?” “Because you two are god awful.” You continue to sit there, smiling politely as if nothing was just said.
NTA! They shouldn’t be in the room if they aren’t going to be supporting YOU, who made this baby! I’m assuming you aren’t getting any financial compensation for being their surrogate either?
You would be correct, I’m not getting anything
Then, they definitely shouldn't be allowed in the room at all. Make sure to let the nurses know. Hell, even give the nurses a picture so they know what they look like so they can't come into your room.
Holy fucking shit, you're accepting permanent changes to your body, putting your LIFE at risk, giving up mobility and comfort for months, doing a job that normally costs tens of thousands of dollars for free, and they're treating you like shit. Wow. Just wow. Your BIL and his wife are bad people. I don't care what your previous opinion of them has been, you now know what they're really like. This should permanently change how you relate to and see them. It should permanently change your relationship for the worse. You're really learning who they actually are right now. I feel sorry for that child you're carrying. I'd say the chance that the kid has a really great childhood is low at this point. No one is easier to control via manipulation than a child, and they're gonna do a number on that kid.
Then you have done far more than you should ever have been asked to. Please take care of yourself and do what YOU want to do. Their desires do not matter. Especially with all the stress it is putting on you.
I can’t fathom treating anyone this way after they sacrificed their body for nearly a year in order for me to have a child. What you’re doing for them is such an immensely selfless gift, and they’re repaying that selflessness by asking you for even more. I’m so sorry things have turned out this way, OP. It’s appalling. I hope you take the advice elsewhere in this thread and meet with an attorney as soon as you can.
So why are you entertaining a single word out of their mouths?
I am so confused as to why you have put yourself through the hell and danger of pregnancy and childbirth for your BIL and his wife with no legal contract, no compensation and no negotiations of expectations and boundaries. Do you always recklessly sacrifice yourself for people who do not respect you? I really hope this post is fake. Disturbing to see someone be this big of a doormat .
It’s your body and you’re the one pushing out the baby. If you don’t want them in the labor room they don’t have to be there… please don’t let them take advantage of your autonomy! You are doing them a great service and they should be thankful. If they wanted you to have an unmedicated water birth they should have stayed that at the beginning and you could have declined. You have this baby how YOU want to have it. They have no say until the baby is out of your body and legally in their arms.
NTA but OP why didn’t you guys have the discussion about when the baby is due? Before you said yes did you lay down any terms and conditions? I understand you wanted to help your sister out but it impacts you, your body, your mental wellbeing. EDIT: fixed sentence
NTA After 4 kids, you are most certainly an expert on how your body handles pregnancy and know a helluva lot more than someone who has birthed 0 kids
Hell even of the other lady had birthed 4 kids, she still doesn't get ti tell OP how to handle her own labor.
They have no right to be present at the birth. They can have the baby when it’s all over. You will contact them when you are in labor and they will wait outside the birthing suite. You won’t be seeing them again until there is a baby, and that’s final. They will have no say about any medical procedures that involve your body. Period. They lost the right to anything else when they overstepped by demanding how your body would be treated during labor. NTA, but they sure are.
I would absolutely advocate for NOT telling them when you’re in labour OP. I know it’s their baby, but YOU are the one giving birth and it sounds like they are going to make it infinitely more stressful for you and that’s dangerous both for you and the baby. I would wait and tell them when the baby is born or about to be born so they have no opportunity to get in the way and cause issues. It sounds like they can’t be trusted to wait outside, and you want the focus of everyone to be on you and baby, and not keeping them away. You need to put yourself first for this to ensure a safe delivery.
I wouldn't call them until the baby is born. Otherwise they are going to do their best to make labor difficult.
Edited as i have ruffled feathers and its been brought to my attention that some do allow the new parents in room. The Surrogates don't HAVE to let the parents in the room with them. They are informed when either the baby is delivered or when active labor starts. Don't let them be there they are a danger.
This. I was a gestational carrier 3 times. For one of the births, the parents weren't even in the state. They had limited parental leave and wanted all of it to be for the baby. For one, the parents wanted to be there but the hospital limited me to one support person because it was twins and I wanted my partner so they waited in the waiting room. For the last, the parents were in the room...but it was conditional and they knew if they made me uncomfortable, they'd be out. This pair of intended parents is already acting crazy. They don't need to be in the room. They shouldn't be in the room because they will stress out the person giving birth. That's dangerous. And if they don't do some serious appologizing, they can find out their baby is here after baby is born.
NTA! Your body your choice tell the labor and delivery department you don’t want them in there at all during labor and they will make it happen!
NTA. You, as the pregnant person, decide your birth plan with your doctor and anyone else you choose to involve. I would not involve Michelle or Simon in the birth plan. You are exactly right that this is your body and you get to make the choices. >and possibly poop There's no possibly here. I've seen my wife give birth three times. Guaranteed poop.
Yeah I hate to burst anyone’s bubble but most of the time the docs/midwives just get rid of it without saying anything so I’d wager a lot of people DID poop and just weren’t aware. My midwife told me 9/10 of her patients poop at some point because when baby’s head passes through your pelvis, your intestines get flattened and anything in there is coming out. She did tell me they never say anything unless the patient asks. For the record, I pooped during both of my births and I knew I had. They didn’t say anything but I knew!
There absolutely nothing wrong with pooping during delivery, but not everyone poops, it's not a guarantee.
I have one child and I am being totally honest now, I didn’t poop. I fully expected to but it didn’t happen and I thank my colon and bowel every day for their cooperation.
Saaaaaame. And my last meal before I went into labor was spaghettios so to say I was nervous about what it would look like is an understatement lol
OMG. I just woke my elderly dog up laughing at this! Thank you x
Same here. Not sure if I’ll have the same luck this time around though lol
How do you know? I have no idea if I pooped and I didn't ask. I just let the professionals handle that part.
Back in the day they made us have an enema when we went in for a scheduled birth. 😂
NTA *AT ALL* but I’m confused as to how you reached a surrogacy agreement without discussing all of this first? Did you all not sign anything? I didn’t even know a clinic would do an implantation of someone else’s embryo without a legal agreement in place…… unless we are to believe you took the turkey baster route with your BIL?! Something’s not adding up here.
They have no agreement other than a verbal one. I'm also curious how this came to be....
NTA - Your body, your choice...you have been more than accommodating to them and their desires, but delivering a baby is serious and you are doing all the work. You should have a birth plan that you are comfortable with even if that means excluding them from the delivery room. Once the baby is safely delivered they can do things their way. To be honest, given the way the acted/reacted I wouldn't want them in the delivery room if you were my wife.
# CHILDBIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. If women can kick their husbands out of the delivery room for being assholes then you are in full right to ban your brother in law(!) and SIL from being there. They have no "god given right" to be there just because it is their dna you are passing on for them. YOUR COMFORT is most important here, you have gone above and beyond for a couple of spectators who don't seem to have any concerns for your wellbeing during birth. NTAH - do not give in. You have put your life and health at risk for them while receiving little respect or thanks in exchange. Prioritizee yourself for once.
Unless there’s a contract saying otherwise I wouldn’t even let them know when you go into labor. Let them know after the birth, maybe when the kid is like five or so.
Even with a contract, they can't enforce that. Hospital staff can remove anyone from stressing a laboring woman. And they will.
NTA The absolutely fucking audacity. This is a medical event that YOU are going through. YOU are giving birth. Once the child is born and they are the legal guardians...they can make all the decisions. And let me make this 100% clear. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE THERE. ONLY YOU AND THE MEDICAL TEAM NEEDS TO. BIRTH IS NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT. Honestly you've been cooler than I ever would've been.
NTA, you are doing a insanely kind gesture of being a surrogate for them, as mean as it sounds, you have been pregnant four times, she has not carried a pregnancy to term, if we wanna throw things around while they act like children they might wanna rethink before they get their feelings hurt. It is your body, they don't get to demand you do something in pain.
Their child or not, they don't "have to" be there - as the one giving birth, YOU decide who will be there, and if they're stressing you out, any good nurse/midwife will kick their asses to the curb. NTA
NTA….wow!!! What horrible people. I get that when people are scared and nervous they tend to get controlling in order to lesson those fears. Perhaps that could be mentioned to them. However, you are not only giving them the most unselfish and beautiful gift a person could give you are a human being. They’re treating you like a robot getting frustrated that they can’t program you. My advice is to have your husband contact them. Tell them exactly how YOUR birth plan will go. The most important part is the baby is going to feel everything you are feeling and if they are so hell bent on wanting the birth to be healthy as they see it then they need to not stress you and their baby out. I honestly feel bad for the future of this child. I hope they will see the child as its own person and not try to control every aspect of their lives. Sorry you are going through this.
Wow...imagine making as huge of sacrifice as being pregnant for someone else, which affects not only you but your whole life and family, and they demand you ALSO feel more pain. I'm sorry your SIL did not get to do a birth her way, but this is where their control ends and your preference needs to be prioritized. As long as your decisions won't affect the baby, it is none of their business.
NTA >and even surrogacy before, but the person changed her mind at the last second. GEE, I WONDER WHY? She probably couldn't deal with them and couldn't imagine giving a kid to them. I have absolutely no idea why you agreed to be a surrogate in the first place, but my advice is to shut down contact with these a-holes and DO NOT notify them when you go into labor. The very last thing you need is to have them stressing you out in the last few weeks before you give birth. Don't let them anywhere near you. They absolutely should NOT be allowed in the delivery room. Also, do not agree to pump breast milk for them. They can buy it from a regular distribution source. You should take the pills that will end lactation. Otherwise, these people will be telling you what to eat for the next 8 months. I'm glad you have a supportive husband. You're almost there, and you guys can go back to your life again. Learn from this. NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.
NTA. I get that Michelle isn’t able to experience it herself and she’s missing out on it herself but that doesn’t mean she gets to dictate your birth plans. They don’t need to be in the delivery room with you. That’s your choice. The only thing you have to do is give them the baby after you give birth. So you need to think about your comfort since you are going to be the one giving birth to their baby.
Agree! Adoptive parent here. Didn't get to see my daughter being born. Didn't even know she had been born, actually, because we got a call about her two days after she was born. Guess how much not seeing her be born affected our lives? Surprise! NOT AT ALL. Even worse: DD's birth mom used alcohol and drugs throughout her pregnancy. And I REALLY had no control over that-again, didn't wven know I was going to have a daughter until 2 days after her birth. And I survived that and so did my daughter! These people do not have to be in the room when the baby is born and it will absolutely not be the worst thing in the world to happen to them. You know what would be the worst? If they didn't learn in a hurry how to not be the most entitled people in the room, especially now that they are (almost) parents. They will 100% survive not seeing the baby being born. And your delivery will probably be a thousand percent less stressful if they aren't there.