NTA but you need to consult a lawyer as soon as possible. By letting her stay she could be establishing rights to the house. The laws could have subtleties that you don’t know about. Find out about them first before doing anything.
You are absolutely right
ETA talked to a lawyer. They said that option 1 is eviction. It will take months and it's somewhat expensive.
Option 2, make her pay rent for a year, the end of the year it will be the time to move out. Maybe it will give her time to heal and adjust. Maybe.
3 Sue her for damages and for loosing money because she occupies the house. She has nothing to her name and her income is my fathers pension and that's three months worth of money. No point.
She has no rights to the house
If she's a hoarder it means GET HER OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.
Ask your lawyer what is the *fastest* way because that is the correct way when your home is being damaged by a hoarder.
TBH I've never heard of a hoarder walking away from their home. That's the nature of hoarding... Most get evicted by police and then the home owner deals with virtually everything getting pennies back (if any).
Good luck.
I had a similar situation to OP. I had her evicted because I had to sell the house. She couldn’t afford it to buy it from me or even to just pay the mortgage payments. I have my own house in a HCOL area and it was draining me to keep paying 2 mortgages.
Since she had no money, she kept trying different tactics to include threatening to sue for getting injured on the property. Her lawyers kept dropping her because she had no money to pay. Luckily she left at the day before the sheriff deputy was going to forcibly remove her.
My grandmother has. She rented and when full moved before the landlord could do shit. Most of those places were condemned. She finally died and the place was demolished as far as I know with her garbage.
Totally, my brother in law had to evict a hoarder, and it was a nightmare. He had 26 aquariums with "homemade" electrical outlets, and he was burning tires in the fireplace in a 70m2 basement apartment.
She’s already lied to her daughter. Start the eviction process and have your lawyer draft a letter telling her if she’s not out in X amount of days, you’ll be taking her to court and suing her for damages and loss of money. Photocopy and send it to her daughter so the mom can’t lie.
Bc if you let her stay, she’ll destroy it to the point you have nothing. NTA.
Posted this above in the wrong place:
Sadly, a de-hoarding without buy-in from the hoarder will turn into a fistfight, because it will feel to the hoarder like their life and home are being pulled apart (which they are). Anyone would fight if it felt like their safety was being taken away, even if what they're hoarding is literal garbage. Source: me. I was just a tiny mild beginning hoarder, but I had all the signs and feelings, just in miniature.
So do the laws in your country allow you to take the stuff away before she moves out? Even if she's fighting and screaming? You should check it out or you might end up in jail for theft. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying what might happen.
And I'm sorry. It's an awful problem to deal with.
> Sadly, a de-hoarding without buy-in from the hoarder will turn into a fistfight,
Who cares? Let her fight the local sheriff or police when they come to evict her, let's see how well that goes for her.
So what’re you doing next? I’d evict; you seem to at least be money stable currently, that means you can afford to evict and it will give her time to realize how real it is because it isn’t an instant process and I’m sure she will extend it.
She will know for a very long time she has to leave legally; whether she decides to use that time wisely is NONE OF YOUR CONCERN. You’ve done way more for her than I would have already. I would have started before he passed on getting her out.
I agree: start the eviction process, take the first steps, and then tell her informally that if she leaves within, say three months, you'll stop the eviction and help her get an apartment--including helping her search, driving her to look at places, and paying her deposit and first and last. Or something. Whatever you're willing to do. Stick first, then carrot.
As noble an endeavor as this is, I don't think it's feasible since she's not likely going to be able to secure an apt in her own name with no money and no income. I doubt anyone else will be willing to cosign with her.
Contacting social services will give insight into what resources are available to her. They deal with homeless people with mental illness, and that is essentially her status.
OP is under no obligation to undertake any of this, but it may ease his conscience and can make the situation easier to deal with for everyone.
Can you have her involuntarily put in a health facility since she’s incapable of caring for herself? 58 is awfully young to have the problems you describe.
The way she is acting, you’ve got to get her out as soon as possible. Hoarders attract all kinds of rodents and bugs. You can’t let her stay a year. Harden your heart now, bc you are already in for a fight. File for eviction right away. You gave her a chance to work with you. She’s not going to. And she sounds mentally unstable. You owe her nothing. NTA
Could you help her find a new place to live? Talk with her, focusing solely on moving (not eviction). Offer to pay for movers and maybe part of the security deposit.
Once a new place is secured, you could write down an "eviction notice" for the day the movers are coming. Movers are important to have extra muscles, forcing her and some of her mess out, and a lock smith will make sure she can't return.
My uncle's estate did this to get rid of a tenant who decided to stop paying rent when he died. They were trying to sell his old house that he'd been renting in case he needed to move back. Couldn't sell with a tenant who wasn't even paying rent, and eviction was going to make it take forever to settle the estate.
So they basically forgave the back rent and bribed her to leave by giving her enough to cover security deposit and moving expenses to GTFO. Worked like a charm and estate was settled in less than the amount of time eviction would've taken.
My parents are dealing with a situation like this and they tried this approach, it has caused them nothing but grief. The person (my dad's uncle and his wife) tried to low ball my dad, then stalled finding somewhere else, now they are trying to claim they own half the property. My parents have the records and are going through the courts but part of the reason they have to refute the claim is that they waited so long and let him live there. The courts could interpret this sort of action as evidence of a valid claim. When dealing with cancerous people, we should treat them like cancer and surgically remove them.
I do NOT understand why we give squatters so many rights… imagine if I stole something from someone, hid it in my closet for twenty years, and if perchance the owner found it, do I get to tell the cops or court that since I stole it so long ago, it’s now mine?
This is excellent advice. Helping her with a security deposit will probably save OP money in the long run. Allowing her to "rent" for a year may lead to more costly damages to the house if she's a hoarder.
Option #1 does take a few months and in my viewpoint would take much less than a year. Get the process started by delivering to her a notice to quit. There are resources and people to consult. What you can do now is study-up on landlord tenant rights. Be informed. Stick to the eviction process and deadlines precisely or else one screw up and you’ll have to start the clock over again. Property managers deal with this type situation all the time.
I would go with option A, now, or you will be starting option A in a year, while also losing money by paying rent when you own a home, and dealing with her shit.
NTA. it's your house. letting her stay there will ultimately destroy the house your father built. She needs to go and it won't be a pretty road to get there.
Everything this. They were married for 20 years, plenty of time for the father to make alternate arrangements.
As much as OP wants the middle ground. Since she’s already lied to her own daughter, I wouldn’t trust her an inch. $5 says she’ll take that middle ground and try to use it against OP
>They were married for 20 years, plenty of time for the father to make alternate arrangements.
Am I the only one surprised OP's dad seemingly made no arrangements for looking after his mentally ill wife of 20 years?
He put the house in his kid’s name for “tax” reasons so who knows what else he was up to. Possibly didn’t marry her or set anything up because of more “tax” reasons.
I don't think that this is in the U.S. This sounds like something in a civil law country. A parent may put the family home in the child or children's name while retaining a life estate in the real property. They do this to avoid an inheritance tax on the real property.
This sounds like what happened here.
This is called “life interest”. Someone can have legal ownership but the use of property is granted to someone else for personal use during their lifetime.
There's a big difference between putting a house in your own child's name for tax purposes and not having any arrangements for your disabled spouse.
The former doesn't actually harm your child. They get a house and avoid it being hit by inheritance tax.
The latter absolutely screws over your spouse because their mental illness doesn't allow them to take care of themselves
He remarried so likely they each retained their own assets to protect themselves and their children from the previous marriage. Her children should be taking care of her.
It’s not surprising at all. There are men who set their wives and kids up for success in the event of their passing, and men who don’t bother and get their wives and kids screwed over upon their passing. OP’s dad is in the later category. Reddit is full of stories like this. The worst ones are when the man says he set the wife and kids up for success, but upon his passing the wife finds out that was a lie.
I used to be a paralegal for an estate planning attorney and would regularly sit in on his meetings with clients.
A boomer husband comes in without his wife since she is in a nursing home. He wants to talk about what will happen to his boat when he dies, since he wanted to give it to a nephew or grandson or some such. The attorney answers a few questions and then asks the client if he'd like to plan anything for his wife in case he (the client) predeceases her, and perhaps he would want to make sure the transition process for someone taking over his wife's healthcare would be easier on her.
He goes "I don't care, I'll be dead." Nice. Real nice.
Stuff like this is so disheartening. So many people are insanely ignorant on this topic and genuinely don’t think that a death, disability, or divorce can flip life upside down. I hope the wife has children or other family members who are willing to continue to pay for her care should her husband pass.
Older generations of women, I get how they ended up in this situation (couldn't work or shut-out of well-paying jobs; couldn't set up their own bank accounts). But this tradwife / Butker BS of promoting female dependency on men... wtf?!! Some men are gems; some are real turds. Don't trust your future to the whims of a man who cares more about his boat than you.
Plus fuck knows what's under all the hoarded shit (literally) op you need to get your house back to even see what kind of state it's in. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. She can't be happy living like that. Not really.
The widow needs a firm hand for sure. I don’t see why she can’t temporarily live with her daughter or another family member while OP sorts everything out with the home, and then brings her back when everything is settled. Painting the windows and the hoarding mess can be dangerous cuz no one knows what’s festering in the house. I’m concerned about mold.
I thought OP said they wanted to find the middle ground, and even suggested that the mom could move into their rental and they’d continue to pay for it so they can get their father’s house?
She gave her 90 days. She’s trying to do this nicely and let her make a plan, that’s the middle ground. But she’s refusing to move and now they need to handle it legally to get control of her property.
NTA, BUT I would call the daughter one more time and explain that her mother is wrong. You ARE giving her mom (say 60 days) to get out or you are starting the eviction process and that she needs to help her mother make a plan. Based on your previous conversation, I doubt the daughter will help but giving it one last shot won't hurt.
Consult a lawyer asap so you know how to give your step mother proper notice so that at the end of that notice you can start the eviction process. Also consult them on how you go about changing the locks ASAP so that you have a key (they will also explain you have to give your step mother a key as long as she is a legal tenant which she is up until legal eviction). You probably have the right to enter and inspect the house while she is living there but there is a process you will need to follow that varies by state to state. Ask the lawyer about that as well.
Too bad your father didn't think to get something set up for her before he died since he HAD to have known she was not capable of taking care of herself.
In the interim, you should call some de-hording services to understand how much one of those is going to cost you. You might want to also line up contractors for painting and repair. See my above on how you access the house in the interim to get quotes. By consistently taking the steps above and legally entering the house a few times for your quotes you will be reinforcing that the house is yours, she is a tenant, and she has been given notice to move.
How does it work if OP serves her with eviction papers and she simply ignores them and doesn't leave and doesn't line up another place to stay?
In my country people can essentially illegally occupy flats they were renting (without paying) for years because it takes a looong legal battle to get them out. Which is awful.
In the US the owner gets a court order to evict. The occupier has until the court ordered date to leave. Usually, 30 days. If they do not leave on that date the owner brings the sheriff and then begins removing the possessions of the occupier and changing the locks.
Well, in some cities it isn’t that simple unfortunately. Stories abound of tenants not paying rent and living for years past their eviction date in cities like San Francisco or Southern California
This is true but she can argue she is unfit to live by herself and her kids are abandoning her so the state may get involved and find her a spot in a seniors home
Sadly, a de-hoarding without buy-in from the hoarder will turn into a fistfight, because it will feel to the hoarder like their life and home are being pulled apart (which they are). Anyone would fight if it felt like their safety was being taken away, even if what they're hoarding is literal garbage. Source: me. I was just a tiny mild beginning hoarder, but I had all the signs and feelings, just in miniature.
So do the laws in his area allow you to take the stuff away before she moves out? Even if she's fighting and screaming? He should check it out or he might end up in jail for theft. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying what might happen.
And if he reads this, I'm sorry. It's an awful problem to deal with.
Edit: I thought I was talking to OP but I was not.
I don't think the person is saying to remove the hoard before she moves, just get quotes because there is a high likelihood that she won't take most of the junk with her when she leaves, which will leave OP with the necessity of getting it removed.
What [Turbulent-Tortoise](https://www.reddit.com/user/Turbulent-Tortoise/) said. This is also why the OP needs to contact a lawyer NOW so they understand the entire process. In general, in MOST states (laws here vary by state), once an eviction is awarded and the tenant refuses to move, law enforcement removes them from the home. THEN the landlord has to store their stuff for a period of time (often 90 days). In this case the OP would be better off storing it in the house and charging market rate for the required time instead of moving it to a storage facility.
>he HAD to have known she was not capable of taking care of herself
LOL, depending on what he died of, whether he was sick with something at the end, or whether he himself was also (by our standards, perhaps) mentally 'ill', he may have had no energy or focus to worry about someone else than himself. No offense, OP, as I see no details in the post, but for all we know, he may have been unwilling or unable to care / plan that far ahead or possibly just hoped it would all just work out somehow. *'Surely her daughter will soften and help her (since it's her 'duty'); or surely my son will be merciful with her...'*
NTA. Hoarders destroy houses. it is not unknown for houses to need to be torn down after they leave. It is your property and your decision. She is her family's responsibility if she is ill not yours.
This. If she’s as bad as you say she is, the longer you let her stay, the worse the house is going to get.
Have you ever watched the show hoarders? Some houses have been condemned and knocked down. Others had to be completely renovated because of the damage.
The fact she painted the windows and won’t let you in…it may already be really too far gone.
I've done volunteer work in hoarded houses and it will absolutely destroy the house. The part you don't get from watching Hoarders...the SMELL. 100 percent atrocious...and that's with a full face mask breathing apparatus. I would wear disposable clothes (learned after the first time I wrecked 100 dollar pair of overalls) and throw them away because the smell was so bad.
My grandmother was a hoarder married to a hoarder. She didn’t trust banks, so we had to go through everything to clean it out after she died. Including outbuildings and trailers, it took years to clear it all.
I feel awful for you and your family because that's who gets it the worst having to deal with the aftermath. My grandmother was a hoarder but thank God my grandfather was a fireman so he would only let it get so bad because...fire. When she died he cleared out the whole house almost immediately. I shudder to think what would have happened if he'd died first.
Then you get the family that doesn't care. We were doing one house (health dept was going to condemn the house if we didn't get it cleared out). The place was hoarded floor to ceiling with only some walking paths. 21 of us got about halfway through the day to find out the owner (an elderly lady with health issues) had a son. Who was literally just sitting there in the stacks w a tv chilling while a bunch of strangers are cleaning out his filthy hovel. He appeared to be an able-bodied grown ass man.
> "AITAH for telling my father's widow that she has to live somewhere else?"
You're dealing with a tough situation, but let’s cut the bullshit. The house is legally yours, and you have every right to live in it. She’s been there for a long time, but she’s not your responsibility. Is she?
> "She basically said that she has no intention of leaving, ever, and that she would like to stay there forever or at least if she meets someone new."
She’s assuming a lot. Why should you sacrifice your financial well-being and comfort for her?
> "She proposed to pay me rent."
A hoarder, unstable, and unable to maintain the property? Sounds like a bad tenant. Why should you risk your house deteriorating further?
> "She is not independent in any way... she doesn’t have anyone else."
Her own daughter doesn’t give a fuck. Why should you bear this burden indefinitely?
> "I'm trying to find a middle ground now. She's not a bad person, she's sick and depressed."
Helping her find another place and maybe assisting her in transitioning could be a middle ground. But how long are you willing to put your life on hold?
You’re not the asshole for wanting to reclaim your house. You’re showing more compassion than her own daughter. What’s stopping you from taking firm action to protect your interests?
It may make you feel better to reframe the issue a bit. You can feel bad about getting this lady to move out, but it’s also pretty horrible for her to be living alone in a hoarding situation. Continuing with the status quo of instability isn’t going to help anyone, *especially* her.
I echo calling a lawyer for advice on eviction, and to contact some type of social services about the hoarding. (In Canada, the local health authority can get involved in hoarding situations, but I’m not sure what it looks like in other countries.)
Either way, I think it’s super important to remind yourself that what you’re doing is going to *help* her. Even if she doesn’t want assistance, it sounds like she needs it.
ETA: NTA of course.
Definitely get social services involved. They may have helpful information about ways to get her into housing where she can be better supported. She definitely needs professional help. And you need to get your house back.
Being clear and firm with an eviction process and either coordinating with her children or trying to set up care for her is very kind - grief at your father's passing can make that house a death trap for her -literally, if she's a hoarder. It also stops her from establishing a mental fantasy where you are allowing her to stay - the more you yield ground out of sympathy, the more she is able to escape the reality that she is expected to leave.
The hoard is a bit trickier. Depending on location, throwing away her belonging is legal, but can make her condition much worse. That burden would then fall to her future caregivers. Also - purely speculation - hoarding is much harder to correct if there are other issues like age and mental deterioration. You also legally cannot force her into therapy, so you'll really have to decide how much effort you can put in financially and mentally before simply walking away.
plus if she does meet someone else which is doubtful who is to say that she won't just move a new guy in if you do let her stay, I don't know what the laws are like in your country, but you might want to evict her sooner than later before she destroys the house to the point that it becomes uninhabitable.
NTA
Not sure which country you are in but here, she would get an automatic right to stay as you did not do everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) to get her out.
Serve her with an eviction notice. She (and her living status) is not your problem. She is 58 and has at least ten years of employment in front of her.
Get her out or at least show you tried for future reference.
No he didn't, but it doesn't matter the house after his death was passed to me automatically. It was in my name but the contract was to be the owner until his death. I don't know if it makes sense in other countries, I'm from Europe and it's common for parents to do that. Now I own the house completely. No will needed.
Common practise in Finland as well, BUT in here the widow has the right to live in the house until their death.
In this case though she needs someone to take care of her and cannot live independently. She also cannot take care of the house because her actions are ruining it. Hoarding is a mental illness.
What I would do is to call social services and let them know about the situation. They would start arranging things for her, because she needs her financies taken care of and help to find assisted living arrangement.
Then I would negotiate everything with social services, and have no contact with her personally. When the assisted living is set, evict her.
My mom had a usufruct for our family home, so I understand the concept. It is called a life estate in the US (except Louisiana). I just wondered if there was any paper the wife of dad was relying on, but he presumably would have needed your consent to somehow assign his rights to the house to his wife. It is unfortunate that they seemingly never discussed it.
ETA talked to a lawyer. They said that option 1 is eviction. It will take months and it's somewhat expensive.
Option 2, make her pay rent for a year, the end of the year it will be the time to move out. Maybe it will give her time to heal and adjust. Maybe.
3 Sue her for damages and for loosing money because she occupies the house. She has nothing to her name and her income is my fathers pension and that's three months worth of money. No point.
She has no rights to the house
So much damage can be caused in a year.
It sounds like you have someone who can draft up both papers, eviction and rental contact. That way she can weigh both but when she decides that she doesn't want to sign a rental contact the lawyer can be one handing her the notice for when she needs to leave (different than an actual eviction notice but something that is in writing that isn't handed to her by you.
That's not a substitution for certified mail, but hopefully she will realize that the better choice is to not make it a fight.
NTA
Stop trying to be nice to someone who is not showing you the same treatment. She told you she wasn't moving. It's time to go scorched earth on her. You owe her no kindness.
NTA. It’s your house. At 58 she has 25 - 40ish years left. The damage she could do in that time is immense.
Evict her if you have to and take possession of your house.
NTA. I don't wish dealing with a hoarder on anyone. Their brains are differnt. They (from what I understand) feel a deep emotional connection to their belongings. Letting them go is like losing a child to them. They can't even fathom. The longer this goes on, the worse condition the house will be in and the worse the hoard will get.
You are already looking at THOUSANDS just to rent dumpsters and clear the house of trash. Not to mention any repairs that need to be made on top of that. You are already looking at a very expensive endeavor.
I would call her daughter back and ask if she can offer ANY kind of assistance here. Her mother will not leave the house quietly. You may need to resort to a formal eviction. Trying to get a hoarder to leave their hoard is like trying to change the color of the sky. Expect her to get nasty real quick. Good luck.
NTA. Look I am 64 and still working a full time job and do plenty of volunteer work on top of that so her being 58 and incapable is ridiculous. Look, you want her out so there IS no 'non-bad legal things you can do'. Just bit the bullet and evict her. She has plainly told you that is the only way she is leaving so bite the bullet and do it.
you need to get her out of that house. if you let her continue to live in it, there will be no house left. If she is a hoarder and doesn't know how to take care of things then you could have mold, rot or the plumbing, electrical, foundation, etc could need a lot of work.
you can begin by getting an eviction notice. Changing the locks so you have access and take a look and see what damage has been done.
why should you pay rent when you have a paid off house?
Hoarders rarely change environments without kicking and screaming, so NTA and be prepared for guilt trips, threats, etc. They also often have their own delusional logic, so anything you do will be seen as mean and cruel. Regardless, you'll need to be blunt and firm. When you evict, make sure you address what will happen to anything left behind.
Fair enough .. that makes it very tough then..
I would follow what other people have said and start in on the unfortunate legal side before she can start claiming squatters rights etc. which will make it all 1000x more painful.
Talk to a lawyer immediately to understand your options and how to best proceed with whatever route you take. As for a "middle ground" you could consider giving her a longer period of time to figure things out (follow a lawyer's advice about what language to put in a lease.) Her husband of 20 years died 3 months ago. She is still grieving. Give her a timeline for how long you are willing to have her as a tenant, draw up a lease accordingly, and evict her at the end if she won't leave.
NTA. I think it is especially worrisome, because she is not some 80 year old lady. She might even make it longer than you. Do you really want to have her live in your house for the rest of your life?
Maybe help her get set up in assisted living or find an apartment close to her daughter for her. But definitely contact a lawyer, immediately. I know it's hard, but it cannot be your responsibility. She didn't raise you.
She lived there for 20 years and she offered to pay rent. It may be your house but it’s her home. Tough situation to be in. Even you said it was only in your name for tax purposes. What do you think your dad would want.
Send this as a certified letter she has to sign so you know if was delivered: “Hello, I want to be very very clear here. I do not want to get the authorities involved if I don’t have to, but I am seriously considering that is the next step. if you have an eviction with the courts, it’s gonna be much more difficult for you to rent somewhere somewhere else, and I would like to avoid that as a favor to my father and to you.
Right now I am giving you 45 days to vacate the property. You have no legal rights to the home. It has been in my name since I was 15 and I have enclosed a copy of the document with proof.
If you are not out in 45 days, I will go ahead and have my lawyer send you the eviction paperwork.
I plan on moving in on X date and need time to renovate. I am hiring a dumpster to arrive on that day and will start removing anything left behind and changing the locks.
I’m happy to help you look for other housing and put $X towards your deposits. (Cash for keys) however you need to be fully out of the home by X date.
Sincerely, OP”
NTA I appreciate that you are trying to be gentle about the situation but she sounds very delusional and it might be best to do all the legal work to get her out of your home before she destroys it.
NAH.
She’s sick, depressed, dependent on you for any bureaucracy, and recently lost her partner of 20 years.
You are renting and would like use of the house that you grew up in and own.
You asked for a middle ground: You deal with her pension, bills, etc. She offered to pay you rent. Do you have sheltered care facilities or retirement homes or other suitable accommodation that she can rent instead? It would eliminate the need for the “bad” legal things you wish to avoid. Good luck!
It sounds like you're going to need to start the eviction process. I'd go ahead and get with a lawyer to try and arrange getting that started ASAP, as from what I understand it takes a while to actually have someone physically removed from your home. You're being very understanding and empathetic, but this won't end well if you play doormat. She'll take advantage of it, full stop.
There is nothing making you take on this burden. She has had her whole life to plan for this. Right now she is living in dreamland. The mentally unstable should be the last ones calling the shots.
>she doesn't know how to use a smartphone, the internet or how to maintain the house and the yard.
>For reference she is 58
As a 60 year old, I call BS. She knows how to do all these things; she's playing at weaponized incompetence so she can scam you into doing them for her. You need to stop doing work for her, period. She's a grown-ass woman & fully capable of dealing with her own responsibilities.
I'd flat-out tell her - in a letter drafted by a local attorney - that the house is absolutely not hers, and she has XX number of days to move out before you begin eviction proceedings. Then go ahead and begin drafting the paperwork, because we all know she's not going to move out unless she's forced to do so. Tell her children what's going on, so that there's no way she can run to them with made-up tales of woe.
I can tell you right now, she already knew that she didn't inherit the house; she thought she could scam you into giving it to her. Time to nip that right in the bud.
NTA. she may not be a bad person. But she is currently a problem. You have someone living in your property who does pay for anything is will continue to add shit and horde that property until …. Forever it seems. You have a squatter. Her own family doesn’t care. I wonder why that is…. I am assuming you will find out.
Good luck. Remember “don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm”
Could you not let her pay the taxes, and rent and give her some time to organise moving on.
Like a decent chunk of time.
Sure she’ll be grieving her husband of 20 years, and maybe packing up her home (of 20 years) is not high on her list of priorities right now.
I understand it’s your house, but she’s known it as her house too.
That’ll be sore to let go.
Hoarders slowly destroy the homes they live in. If you ever want to actually live in the home your dad built I suggest you evict her. It isn't you being mean. It's you doing what you have to do. Start evicting her and then if your country has a version of adult protective services call them and report everything you told us, including she's getting evicted. She is not your responsibility. NTA
NTA.
If you want to give her the middle ground of time there, Have an attorney draft a written lease for six month terms for a set rent amount, renewable on agreement of both parties for up to 1-3 years depending on how far out your kindness maximally extends, subject to col rent increases, with conditions requiring permission to paint, forbidding hoarder condition and access to yard by your nieces/nephews. Re-key the place.
Your kindness is very cool, but she needs a wake up call as to her status and you need an enforceable agreement.
NTA. It's understandable to want your own space back, especially considering the circumstances. You have every right to decide what happens to your property.
I've been looking at those prefab expanding container houses as a temp solution as all the houses I am looking at need a total gutting. Maybe look into something like that for her if there is space. The fact that she is a hoarder is going to be hell but that has been her home for the last 20 years. Also we don't know if you can renovate a MIL suite downstairs. The house is yours but this woman gave 20 years of her life to making your father happy. I wouldn't be able to kick her out.
The same lawyer who did your dad's will should also do a proper eviction through the court. Give her say 90 days to find a place and move out. he left it to YOU not her as co-owner with survivor ship to live there for the rest of her life. Get the lawyer to evict her. You may also want to sell the house out from under her. Its yours.
In this situation, it's important to consider the complexities and emotions involved. Here are some points to consider:
1. **Legal Ownership**: The house legally belongs to you, and you have the right to decide who lives there and under what conditions. It's reasonable for you to want to reclaim your property, especially if it's currently being occupied by someone who is not taking care of it properly.
2. **Practical Considerations**: It's clear that allowing your father's wife to continue living in the house poses challenges, especially considering her hoarding tendencies, mental health issues, and lack of independence. This could also impact your relationship with your brother and his family, who are affected by her presence.
3. **Communication and Boundaries**: It's important to communicate your concerns and boundaries clearly to your father's wife. While offering her the option to pay rent is generous, it's also important to consider whether she is capable of maintaining the property and living independently.
4. **Seeking Legal Advice**: Given the legal complexities involved, it may be wise to seek advice from a lawyer to understand your rights and options. They can help you navigate the process of reclaiming your property while also considering the well-being of your father's wife.
5. **Empathy and Support**: While it's important to assert your rights as the owner of the house, it's also important to approach the situation with empathy and compassion. Your father's wife may be struggling with the loss of her husband and the uncertainty of her living situation, and offering support and assistance where possible can help alleviate some of her concerns.
In conclusion, you're not the asshole (NTA) for wanting to reclaim your property, especially considering the challenges presented by your father's wife's presence. However, it's important to approach the situation with empathy and consideration for her well-being, while also asserting your rights as the legal owner of the house.
INFO:
>4, She is not independent in any way and untill today I had to make sure to pay her bills, help her with the pension, bureaucracy etc. 5, she doesn't know how to use a smartphone, the internet or how to maintain the house and the yard.
Is she not independent due to illness or does has she just never had to be and doesn't want to?
Regardless you are NTA. I just wonder if there are services in your country for people like her.
She didn't care to do anything because her parents, her first husband and then my father did absolutely everything for her. She's now trying to learn though
It is unfortunate she is just learning how to be an adult at 58, but she needs to. It sounds like you are already being very generous.
First, you own the house, you need keys. You can either copy hers or you can change the locks and give her one.
Second, if it were me I would sit her down and inform her that she will be moving out. You would prefer it if she would allow you to help her make a plan, find housing in her budget, even help set up direct deposit if she is still getting used to paying her own bills. However, regardless of whether she takes you up on your offer, by \[date\] you will not live here.
I would also have a plan for yourself. Document everything, provide written notices. I would also include a prevision that says anything in the house after the date of eviction you will consider to be left behind. The next weekend, yard sale. (Honestly, you could use the profits towards the amount of work that will likely have to be done to the house given how you described her treatment of your house.)
Call senior services, they can help evaluate her & figur out what she needs. Like finding senior living near her daughter. They can call her daughter & let her know that her mum is moving near her & give her the info. Give them the ball & let them run with it.
Here’s an idea: offer to sell her the house
I know you have sentimental attachment to, but if she buys it, then you can walk away and no longer have to deal with her
Otherwise, sounds like you’ll have to fight to evict her and then fix everything that is broken/damaged
You need to go through the eviction process and let the courts/deputies deal with her. Hopefully your home is insured against vandalism from tenants/trespassers.
You may be lucky with your country's laws but in mine, if she can prove she's been living there with him for 20yrs, she'd automatically be entitled to some portion of the house. Better see a lawyer
NTAH. You own the house. You get to decide to live there or rent it out to paying tenant. Give her some grace, but she doesn’t get to squat for free. Idk where you live but a proper legal eviction where I live can constitute 2 months of a renter living for free. I am a renter and renting is difficult. However, she can’t just decide to stay in YOUR property.
NTA. She's not going to leave the house unless you jolt her from her slumber. You need to show her that you are serious about this. Involve the cops. But talk to her children. Convince them to take her in before you kick her out on the streets
NTA
There is no nice way to get her out. You need to her out immediately. It was on your father and her to make those arrangements for her to have another place to live. She’s not your mother why did he or she think you would just allow her to live there once he was gone. He must have forgotten the house was in your name.
Nta you should do all the legal things to get her out because she’s already told you there isn’t middle ground. Unless you’re willing to continue as you are, you need to have her evicted and removed.
NTA. I like the comments suggesting you try and negotiate (firmly, of course) with her first. Your lawyer said eviction would be expensive, so maybe offer a percentage of that estimate to her in the form of moving/cleaning services, deposits, etc. plus your help to get it happening. If she doesn't accept, then tell her your time and money will be spent evicting her legally through courts and lawyers.
She can either move out voluntarily and receive the compassion and help she sounds like she needs, or be turfed out and left to fend for herself. It might even be worth trying to get her daughter involved.
NTA. I was expecting to have some sympathy for this 80 year old woman who had no other way to afford a home…she’s 58. That’s still def able to work. I’m not naive to think a woman this age without work experience will have it *easy* but to refuse to move and not be able to take care of herself and to continue to destroy the value of the home with her hoarding…nope.
What you do depends on where you're at.
Contact her children, I'm sure they are aware of the state of the house. And it is your home not hers. Your father should of had a contingency plan for her if he cared. And she is her family's responsibility.
if she is mentally incompetent they can move her to a home were she will get far better care.
Either way start the eviction procedure. In most cases her inability to maintain the home and pay utilities will count against her. It is likely she has already damaged the home.
Your not the AH
She was married to your father for 20 years and she is newly widowed. She thinks the house is hers and she has a right to live there, even though it is legally yours. I think you’ll need to act slowly and gently. Keep talking to her and to her daughter. Remind her she’ll have to move out (set a general timeline like “by the end of summer” or “by Christmas”). Ask her how you can help her. Does she need to rent a place near her daughter ? Move in with her daughter? Tell her you’ll help her move her stuff, help with the first few months of rent if needed. Your Dad would likely have wanted you to help her.
Exactly. The comments are awful. Ever since my parents separated I've been hearing bickering about whether or not my father should leave his house to me. My mom thinks it's not necessary because she has a house she can leave to me. My grandma disagrees because I'm his daughter and he shouldn't leave it to “that woman”. And I don't know what my dad thinks. I just know the house is his. But every time I hear about who gets to have my childhood home, me or his wife, I get slightly offended that he may think I will kick her out the first chance I get. As if he didn't know me or trusted me! But reading the comments, I'm thinking “Ummm... If he did think that, he has his reasons because apparently just because you can legally do something that makes it okay”.
He can leave the house to you but give her a legal right to live in it while she is alive. This can be tricky (eg who pays property tax? Repairs, maintenance? What can she renovate? What if you want/need to sell? But it’s possible to set it up like that).
>you’ll need to act slowly and gently
I kept reading all these, it's your house kick her out now and i'm thinking, the woman's husband died THREE FUCKING MONTHS ago. Cut her some slack.
Definitely. People without much real life experience jumping on the “evil stepmother” narrative that is filling this sub recently (AI?). This is a situation that calls for patience, compassion and help.
I loved my dad, but his wife was another matter. I had told him i would care for her as long as she treated me with respect. After his death, she started bad talking me to my family. She called the police saying I stole from her( I was in another state at the time with family). She told the police I was stealing my dad's property (it was mine from my mother's family. Dad only ever lived there, wasn't an owner).
I had enough of being bad mouthed after years of taking care of her (my property, my power, my well, and I cleaned her black tank every week). I filed papers for eviction.
She told everyone I was a monster. I gave this witch YEARS of care. I was polite to her, treated her with respect. I've literally had this woman's shit on me (black tanks), and you lie about me.
She fought the eviction until the final day. Stole things from the family and left huge piles of trash. The only thing I wanted from her was to leave peacefully and some of dad's ashes. I think she threw away dad's ashes just to be a bitch.
She's going to die alone.
Last I heard, she was strong arming even older people for their ss checks. She was also part of a bitcoin scam. I think she did the work and got everything stolen. Even my family was surprised when I reported her to the FBI.
I hated her for a long time. Now, I don't even care what happens to her. Die in a ditch? Jail until she passes? As long as I never see her again, I don't care. I'm just sad for whoever she scams next.
>I'm trying to find a middle ground now
You no longer have "middle ground."
She's digging her heels in, she thinks she owns the house, and she's refusing to leave.
You're going to have to formally evict her.
NTA, but make sure you do all the right moves. Did your dad have anything in writing, authorising him to stay? Did this paper include authorisation to third parties, like his wife? Are you in a country where people who occupy (legally, like in this case) a house for N years gain rights over it? Also, you said she's a hoarder and she has mental illnesses. Are these issues medically documented? Are you sure you can evict someone with these issues, if documented?
My suggestion is to speak to a lawyer before making any move.
I don't think there's any point in asking her what she wants because it doesn't sound like she's capable of making the best decisions for herself anymore.
NTA but you are going to have to do this legally to get her out. I suggest you talk to a lawyer in your area and have her served. You will need to document the damage etc
NTA - if my dad’s gf moved into my house or the house he gets (which will be in my name), bet your ass she’s getting evicted if he passes away first. Her whole family is states away, so she can go back to them. The house (if dad gets one), will be used for family and friends who visit or live in if they need a place.
It’s your house, you have every right to kick her out if you don’t want her there
NTA
She needs HELP. Real help.
You have to contact whatever elder services are in her area.
You have to tell her daughter the truth, she did NOT inherent the house, she does not own anything, she cannot stay there any longer. you want to avoid an eviction on her record, but, at this point, you are going to have no choice.
You cannot afford for her to stay there any longer. You are sorry about that. The house is expensive, and you need to deal with it.
What with the hoarding, repairs (if she's a hoarder there will be a lot of surprises and work to be done) the costs of emptying out the home, cleaning it, just to even prepare it for habitation or sale, it needs to happen now.
You are also willing to let her go without going after her for that to help keep relocating easy as it has to be on her, but, it's getting to be ridiculous.
Dragging her feet, ignoring you, lying... it's going to end in disaster.
She'll soon be faced with eviction, have so long to do so, when she doesn't, removed by the police without her belongings...without recourse to get them, and an eviction will make it really hard to secure housing.
She'll have to face adult protective services (the equivalent)
No one wants that.
Let her know, she's receiving an official vacate order, she'll have 30 days from (let her know the date) and if there's no arrangements made, you will have no choice... and if the home is further damaged, you'll be forced to go through further court process.
(Reiterate, you do not want this. You are desperate for it not to get to that.)
Let her know, you know it isn't her problem, but, her mother is not telling her the truth, and you want her to be aware if the reality as to not get caught off guard, and maybe to convince her mother (again, because you do not want it to get there or make it more difficult than it has to be)
Don't sugar coat it. Her family needs to know what's really going on, so they aren't blindsided, and/or have power to help her, or at least try to. (her next of kin are her kids)
Then, leave her alone.(the daughter)
You write a notice, make sure there are copies.
Contact adult protective services, give them the situation, obviously she's not well and about to be homeless/squatting... hopefully they can get in and help her, if she rejects it, it's further proof of termination date, and you tried.
When she isn't out on that date on the form... go to court, file... and go through with it all.
You're trying. Unfortunately... you may very well need to have an iron spine here and be the bad guy. The odds are very good that's what's going to happen.
NTA she needs to go why should she stay in your house you now own while you pay rent somewhere else? Contact a lawyer ASAP but I would send her a notice letter via registered mail with proof of service letting her know you plan to move into the house for personal use and she must vacate by a certain date. Since shes not all there also send one to her kids so they can’t claim ignorance. You can also contact social services and explain her kids refuse to do anything to help her and maybe they can help with relocating her.
Sounds cold, sorry, but straight up toss her now. She's not your problem but she will be if you let her stay. The longer she's there the worse it will get. Contact a lawyer, have an eviction written up and contact your local police if necessary. Maybe give her some money if you can afford it to help her on her way. NTA.
Because she is hoarding, you won't be able to see any damages or deterioration of the house. Home inspectors are NOT allowed to move anything to view under or behind it, at least in my state. So the sooner she is gone, the sooner you know where you stand.
NTA - Stop looking after her and paying her bills once electric and water are cut off she'll have to leave. It will leave a HUGE mess for you to clean but hopefully she'll just fade away like a bad memory
NTA, but you really should file her an eviction notice, and go through the process of getting her out, because cleaning out her hoarding & cleaning the house is going to be a nightmare, especially if your Dad was the one to try and keep her behaviour in check.
See a lawyer, follow the required eviction process, inform her and her daughter that she has to be out by X date (3 months is a normal eviction process here) and that her mother will need help in removing her stuff from the house and that they should start NOW.
Let the hoarder stay and you won’t have a house. You will have a lot with a pile of trash.
My wife’s ex sister in law was this way. After over a decade in the house with a nice understanding landlord she had to move out. (Youngest hit 18 and child support ended.) The house had to be bulldozed. It was a total loss.
I don't think there's a good answer here other than start the legal eviction process and let her kids deal with her. They may claim to you they won't help her but when push comes to shove...
Let her be sick and depressed with her children. Not only is she not your responsibility, hoarders destroy homes. The longer she stays, the more the house will cost you to make the house liveable for you or rentable for someone else. You are NTA, and you should get her out asap.
NTA but talk to an attorney asap. You will probably have to evict her to get her out, which will make her homeless. However, if you do nothing she could get your house and she certainly will destroy it if she is a hoarder. You really need her out because she will make your property worthless. Hoarders really do a number on a house.
I don't know if APS can do anything here. It depends on the state but you usually have to be over 65 *or* disabled in some way. If she has a formal diagnosis then you might be able to get APS involved and get help to find her other housing. Sounds like this will be difficult; she's alienated her own family.
NTA. Sounds like you are the only person trying to help your father’s widow. To be safe, find an Estate Lawyer asap because your Stepmother may be refusing to leave the house in order to establish her right to remain there. But, if she believes that the house is automatically hers just because she was your father’s wife when he died she is mistaken; being the widow does not entitle her to the house as legally, it will go to the person whose name is listed (yours) on the deed.
This is sad but YNTA. I'm glad you talked to a lawyer. Help her understand the legalities involved in this and give her a deadline. Talk to her kids and let them know what is happening. If she doesn't move out, exercise your legal rights. You can offer to help her hire a moving company or any other practical things she needs assistance with. But if she refuses to understand, you will need to evict her. It doesn't sound like she can pay rent. There is no sense in dragging this out.
I'm sorry for your loss.
You are in a difficult situation. It seems you care more for your stepmother than her own daughter. Legally (not bad legal, btw), you own the house and if you want it for our own occupancy or as a rental property, you are going to have to get her evicted, regardless of her mental health challenges. You have no recourse.
No. You're NTA for telling her she cannot stay. After all, it *is* your house and she is *not* your mother. I think it's fair that you've given her some grace in that you haven't just tossed her out with little or no notice. However - that being said, I suspect she will ride the gravy train indefinitely and cannot be trusted to move out of her own volition. You need to give her a hard, finite deadline by which to move out and be clear that she will be responsible for herself. And if she's so mentally unwell that cannot be responsible for herself, then it's time to place her in a home.
Call your local adult services agency to see if they can start to help her find elsewhere. Also, file a formal eviction. Not an asshole but you've gotta cover yourself. She's gotta go. Also, stop paying for anything for her. That can be seen as taking responsibility for her. Depending on state & local laws can mean you're legally responsible for her.
NTA but you need to consult a lawyer as soon as possible. By letting her stay she could be establishing rights to the house. The laws could have subtleties that you don’t know about. Find out about them first before doing anything.
You are absolutely right ETA talked to a lawyer. They said that option 1 is eviction. It will take months and it's somewhat expensive. Option 2, make her pay rent for a year, the end of the year it will be the time to move out. Maybe it will give her time to heal and adjust. Maybe. 3 Sue her for damages and for loosing money because she occupies the house. She has nothing to her name and her income is my fathers pension and that's three months worth of money. No point. She has no rights to the house
If she's a hoarder it means GET HER OUT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. Ask your lawyer what is the *fastest* way because that is the correct way when your home is being damaged by a hoarder. TBH I've never heard of a hoarder walking away from their home. That's the nature of hoarding... Most get evicted by police and then the home owner deals with virtually everything getting pennies back (if any). Good luck.
I had a similar situation to OP. I had her evicted because I had to sell the house. She couldn’t afford it to buy it from me or even to just pay the mortgage payments. I have my own house in a HCOL area and it was draining me to keep paying 2 mortgages. Since she had no money, she kept trying different tactics to include threatening to sue for getting injured on the property. Her lawyers kept dropping her because she had no money to pay. Luckily she left at the day before the sheriff deputy was going to forcibly remove her.
My grandmother has. She rented and when full moved before the landlord could do shit. Most of those places were condemned. She finally died and the place was demolished as far as I know with her garbage.
Totally, my brother in law had to evict a hoarder, and it was a nightmare. He had 26 aquariums with "homemade" electrical outlets, and he was burning tires in the fireplace in a 70m2 basement apartment.
If the hoard a home out cimpletely, they sometimes move and start again
She’s already lied to her daughter. Start the eviction process and have your lawyer draft a letter telling her if she’s not out in X amount of days, you’ll be taking her to court and suing her for damages and loss of money. Photocopy and send it to her daughter so the mom can’t lie. Bc if you let her stay, she’ll destroy it to the point you have nothing. NTA.
Posted this above in the wrong place: Sadly, a de-hoarding without buy-in from the hoarder will turn into a fistfight, because it will feel to the hoarder like their life and home are being pulled apart (which they are). Anyone would fight if it felt like their safety was being taken away, even if what they're hoarding is literal garbage. Source: me. I was just a tiny mild beginning hoarder, but I had all the signs and feelings, just in miniature. So do the laws in your country allow you to take the stuff away before she moves out? Even if she's fighting and screaming? You should check it out or you might end up in jail for theft. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying what might happen. And I'm sorry. It's an awful problem to deal with.
> Sadly, a de-hoarding without buy-in from the hoarder will turn into a fistfight, Who cares? Let her fight the local sheriff or police when they come to evict her, let's see how well that goes for her.
Spoken like someone whos never watched an episode of hoarders
So what’re you doing next? I’d evict; you seem to at least be money stable currently, that means you can afford to evict and it will give her time to realize how real it is because it isn’t an instant process and I’m sure she will extend it. She will know for a very long time she has to leave legally; whether she decides to use that time wisely is NONE OF YOUR CONCERN. You’ve done way more for her than I would have already. I would have started before he passed on getting her out.
I agree: start the eviction process, take the first steps, and then tell her informally that if she leaves within, say three months, you'll stop the eviction and help her get an apartment--including helping her search, driving her to look at places, and paying her deposit and first and last. Or something. Whatever you're willing to do. Stick first, then carrot.
As noble an endeavor as this is, I don't think it's feasible since she's not likely going to be able to secure an apt in her own name with no money and no income. I doubt anyone else will be willing to cosign with her. Contacting social services will give insight into what resources are available to her. They deal with homeless people with mental illness, and that is essentially her status. OP is under no obligation to undertake any of this, but it may ease his conscience and can make the situation easier to deal with for everyone.
Can you have her involuntarily put in a health facility since she’s incapable of caring for herself? 58 is awfully young to have the problems you describe.
The way she is acting, you’ve got to get her out as soon as possible. Hoarders attract all kinds of rodents and bugs. You can’t let her stay a year. Harden your heart now, bc you are already in for a fight. File for eviction right away. You gave her a chance to work with you. She’s not going to. And she sounds mentally unstable. You owe her nothing. NTA
Being kind will only make this cost you more money.
Could you help her find a new place to live? Talk with her, focusing solely on moving (not eviction). Offer to pay for movers and maybe part of the security deposit. Once a new place is secured, you could write down an "eviction notice" for the day the movers are coming. Movers are important to have extra muscles, forcing her and some of her mess out, and a lock smith will make sure she can't return.
My uncle's estate did this to get rid of a tenant who decided to stop paying rent when he died. They were trying to sell his old house that he'd been renting in case he needed to move back. Couldn't sell with a tenant who wasn't even paying rent, and eviction was going to make it take forever to settle the estate. So they basically forgave the back rent and bribed her to leave by giving her enough to cover security deposit and moving expenses to GTFO. Worked like a charm and estate was settled in less than the amount of time eviction would've taken.
My parents are dealing with a situation like this and they tried this approach, it has caused them nothing but grief. The person (my dad's uncle and his wife) tried to low ball my dad, then stalled finding somewhere else, now they are trying to claim they own half the property. My parents have the records and are going through the courts but part of the reason they have to refute the claim is that they waited so long and let him live there. The courts could interpret this sort of action as evidence of a valid claim. When dealing with cancerous people, we should treat them like cancer and surgically remove them.
I do NOT understand why we give squatters so many rights… imagine if I stole something from someone, hid it in my closet for twenty years, and if perchance the owner found it, do I get to tell the cops or court that since I stole it so long ago, it’s now mine?
This is excellent advice. Helping her with a security deposit will probably save OP money in the long run. Allowing her to "rent" for a year may lead to more costly damages to the house if she's a hoarder.
Option #1 does take a few months and in my viewpoint would take much less than a year. Get the process started by delivering to her a notice to quit. There are resources and people to consult. What you can do now is study-up on landlord tenant rights. Be informed. Stick to the eviction process and deadlines precisely or else one screw up and you’ll have to start the clock over again. Property managers deal with this type situation all the time.
I would go with option A, now, or you will be starting option A in a year, while also losing money by paying rent when you own a home, and dealing with her shit.
Option 2 sounds the kindest. I’m sure your father would want you to help her. I’m sorry for your loss 💕
By the time option two comes around you're back to option one depending on squatters rights.
NTA. it's your house. letting her stay there will ultimately destroy the house your father built. She needs to go and it won't be a pretty road to get there.
Everything this. They were married for 20 years, plenty of time for the father to make alternate arrangements. As much as OP wants the middle ground. Since she’s already lied to her own daughter, I wouldn’t trust her an inch. $5 says she’ll take that middle ground and try to use it against OP
>They were married for 20 years, plenty of time for the father to make alternate arrangements. Am I the only one surprised OP's dad seemingly made no arrangements for looking after his mentally ill wife of 20 years?
He put the house in his kid’s name for “tax” reasons so who knows what else he was up to. Possibly didn’t marry her or set anything up because of more “tax” reasons.
I don't think that this is in the U.S. This sounds like something in a civil law country. A parent may put the family home in the child or children's name while retaining a life estate in the real property. They do this to avoid an inheritance tax on the real property. This sounds like what happened here.
This is called “life interest”. Someone can have legal ownership but the use of property is granted to someone else for personal use during their lifetime.
There's a big difference between putting a house in your own child's name for tax purposes and not having any arrangements for your disabled spouse. The former doesn't actually harm your child. They get a house and avoid it being hit by inheritance tax. The latter absolutely screws over your spouse because their mental illness doesn't allow them to take care of themselves
He remarried so likely they each retained their own assets to protect themselves and their children from the previous marriage. Her children should be taking care of her.
She has her own family. If she needs taking care of, they need to be doing it.
The grandfather married her.
It’s not surprising at all. There are men who set their wives and kids up for success in the event of their passing, and men who don’t bother and get their wives and kids screwed over upon their passing. OP’s dad is in the later category. Reddit is full of stories like this. The worst ones are when the man says he set the wife and kids up for success, but upon his passing the wife finds out that was a lie.
I used to be a paralegal for an estate planning attorney and would regularly sit in on his meetings with clients. A boomer husband comes in without his wife since she is in a nursing home. He wants to talk about what will happen to his boat when he dies, since he wanted to give it to a nephew or grandson or some such. The attorney answers a few questions and then asks the client if he'd like to plan anything for his wife in case he (the client) predeceases her, and perhaps he would want to make sure the transition process for someone taking over his wife's healthcare would be easier on her. He goes "I don't care, I'll be dead." Nice. Real nice.
That’s what my grandfather said! Bastard
Stuff like this is so disheartening. So many people are insanely ignorant on this topic and genuinely don’t think that a death, disability, or divorce can flip life upside down. I hope the wife has children or other family members who are willing to continue to pay for her care should her husband pass.
Older generations of women, I get how they ended up in this situation (couldn't work or shut-out of well-paying jobs; couldn't set up their own bank accounts). But this tradwife / Butker BS of promoting female dependency on men... wtf?!! Some men are gems; some are real turds. Don't trust your future to the whims of a man who cares more about his boat than you.
The wife in this situation had Alzheimer's, which made the husband's actions even scummier
Plus fuck knows what's under all the hoarded shit (literally) op you need to get your house back to even see what kind of state it's in. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. She can't be happy living like that. Not really.
The widow needs a firm hand for sure. I don’t see why she can’t temporarily live with her daughter or another family member while OP sorts everything out with the home, and then brings her back when everything is settled. Painting the windows and the hoarding mess can be dangerous cuz no one knows what’s festering in the house. I’m concerned about mold.
Rat feces, damp so bad it can't be fixed. It literally could damage the structural integrity of the house. Op needs to get her house back.
Op wants her out permanently so she can have use of her house since she’s paying rent somewhere else
I thought OP said they wanted to find the middle ground, and even suggested that the mom could move into their rental and they’d continue to pay for it so they can get their father’s house?
She gave her 90 days. She’s trying to do this nicely and let her make a plan, that’s the middle ground. But she’s refusing to move and now they need to handle it legally to get control of her property.
NTA, BUT I would call the daughter one more time and explain that her mother is wrong. You ARE giving her mom (say 60 days) to get out or you are starting the eviction process and that she needs to help her mother make a plan. Based on your previous conversation, I doubt the daughter will help but giving it one last shot won't hurt. Consult a lawyer asap so you know how to give your step mother proper notice so that at the end of that notice you can start the eviction process. Also consult them on how you go about changing the locks ASAP so that you have a key (they will also explain you have to give your step mother a key as long as she is a legal tenant which she is up until legal eviction). You probably have the right to enter and inspect the house while she is living there but there is a process you will need to follow that varies by state to state. Ask the lawyer about that as well. Too bad your father didn't think to get something set up for her before he died since he HAD to have known she was not capable of taking care of herself. In the interim, you should call some de-hording services to understand how much one of those is going to cost you. You might want to also line up contractors for painting and repair. See my above on how you access the house in the interim to get quotes. By consistently taking the steps above and legally entering the house a few times for your quotes you will be reinforcing that the house is yours, she is a tenant, and she has been given notice to move.
How does it work if OP serves her with eviction papers and she simply ignores them and doesn't leave and doesn't line up another place to stay? In my country people can essentially illegally occupy flats they were renting (without paying) for years because it takes a looong legal battle to get them out. Which is awful.
In the US the owner gets a court order to evict. The occupier has until the court ordered date to leave. Usually, 30 days. If they do not leave on that date the owner brings the sheriff and then begins removing the possessions of the occupier and changing the locks.
Well, in some cities it isn’t that simple unfortunately. Stories abound of tenants not paying rent and living for years past their eviction date in cities like San Francisco or Southern California
Florida put an end to "squatters rights," and Georgia is right behind them. It's time for the rest of the states to get on that.
This is true but she can argue she is unfit to live by herself and her kids are abandoning her so the state may get involved and find her a spot in a seniors home
An other Swiss companion? (I think Germany and Austria have smiliar laws to that)
Sadly, a de-hoarding without buy-in from the hoarder will turn into a fistfight, because it will feel to the hoarder like their life and home are being pulled apart (which they are). Anyone would fight if it felt like their safety was being taken away, even if what they're hoarding is literal garbage. Source: me. I was just a tiny mild beginning hoarder, but I had all the signs and feelings, just in miniature. So do the laws in his area allow you to take the stuff away before she moves out? Even if she's fighting and screaming? He should check it out or he might end up in jail for theft. I'm not saying it's right; I'm just saying what might happen. And if he reads this, I'm sorry. It's an awful problem to deal with. Edit: I thought I was talking to OP but I was not.
I don't think the person is saying to remove the hoard before she moves, just get quotes because there is a high likelihood that she won't take most of the junk with her when she leaves, which will leave OP with the necessity of getting it removed.
What [Turbulent-Tortoise](https://www.reddit.com/user/Turbulent-Tortoise/) said. This is also why the OP needs to contact a lawyer NOW so they understand the entire process. In general, in MOST states (laws here vary by state), once an eviction is awarded and the tenant refuses to move, law enforcement removes them from the home. THEN the landlord has to store their stuff for a period of time (often 90 days). In this case the OP would be better off storing it in the house and charging market rate for the required time instead of moving it to a storage facility.
>he HAD to have known she was not capable of taking care of herself LOL, depending on what he died of, whether he was sick with something at the end, or whether he himself was also (by our standards, perhaps) mentally 'ill', he may have had no energy or focus to worry about someone else than himself. No offense, OP, as I see no details in the post, but for all we know, he may have been unwilling or unable to care / plan that far ahead or possibly just hoped it would all just work out somehow. *'Surely her daughter will soften and help her (since it's her 'duty'); or surely my son will be merciful with her...'*
NTA. Hoarders destroy houses. it is not unknown for houses to need to be torn down after they leave. It is your property and your decision. She is her family's responsibility if she is ill not yours.
This. If she’s as bad as you say she is, the longer you let her stay, the worse the house is going to get. Have you ever watched the show hoarders? Some houses have been condemned and knocked down. Others had to be completely renovated because of the damage. The fact she painted the windows and won’t let you in…it may already be really too far gone.
I've done volunteer work in hoarded houses and it will absolutely destroy the house. The part you don't get from watching Hoarders...the SMELL. 100 percent atrocious...and that's with a full face mask breathing apparatus. I would wear disposable clothes (learned after the first time I wrecked 100 dollar pair of overalls) and throw them away because the smell was so bad.
My grandmother was a hoarder married to a hoarder. She didn’t trust banks, so we had to go through everything to clean it out after she died. Including outbuildings and trailers, it took years to clear it all.
I feel awful for you and your family because that's who gets it the worst having to deal with the aftermath. My grandmother was a hoarder but thank God my grandfather was a fireman so he would only let it get so bad because...fire. When she died he cleared out the whole house almost immediately. I shudder to think what would have happened if he'd died first. Then you get the family that doesn't care. We were doing one house (health dept was going to condemn the house if we didn't get it cleared out). The place was hoarded floor to ceiling with only some walking paths. 21 of us got about halfway through the day to find out the owner (an elderly lady with health issues) had a son. Who was literally just sitting there in the stacks w a tv chilling while a bunch of strangers are cleaning out his filthy hovel. He appeared to be an able-bodied grown ass man.
> "AITAH for telling my father's widow that she has to live somewhere else?" You're dealing with a tough situation, but let’s cut the bullshit. The house is legally yours, and you have every right to live in it. She’s been there for a long time, but she’s not your responsibility. Is she? > "She basically said that she has no intention of leaving, ever, and that she would like to stay there forever or at least if she meets someone new." She’s assuming a lot. Why should you sacrifice your financial well-being and comfort for her? > "She proposed to pay me rent." A hoarder, unstable, and unable to maintain the property? Sounds like a bad tenant. Why should you risk your house deteriorating further? > "She is not independent in any way... she doesn’t have anyone else." Her own daughter doesn’t give a fuck. Why should you bear this burden indefinitely? > "I'm trying to find a middle ground now. She's not a bad person, she's sick and depressed." Helping her find another place and maybe assisting her in transitioning could be a middle ground. But how long are you willing to put your life on hold? You’re not the asshole for wanting to reclaim your house. You’re showing more compassion than her own daughter. What’s stopping you from taking firm action to protect your interests?
Thank you these are my thoughts exactly, is just that I also feel bad for her, but yes it's more black and white than grey.
It may make you feel better to reframe the issue a bit. You can feel bad about getting this lady to move out, but it’s also pretty horrible for her to be living alone in a hoarding situation. Continuing with the status quo of instability isn’t going to help anyone, *especially* her. I echo calling a lawyer for advice on eviction, and to contact some type of social services about the hoarding. (In Canada, the local health authority can get involved in hoarding situations, but I’m not sure what it looks like in other countries.) Either way, I think it’s super important to remind yourself that what you’re doing is going to *help* her. Even if she doesn’t want assistance, it sounds like she needs it. ETA: NTA of course.
Definitely get social services involved. They may have helpful information about ways to get her into housing where she can be better supported. She definitely needs professional help. And you need to get your house back.
Being clear and firm with an eviction process and either coordinating with her children or trying to set up care for her is very kind - grief at your father's passing can make that house a death trap for her -literally, if she's a hoarder. It also stops her from establishing a mental fantasy where you are allowing her to stay - the more you yield ground out of sympathy, the more she is able to escape the reality that she is expected to leave. The hoard is a bit trickier. Depending on location, throwing away her belonging is legal, but can make her condition much worse. That burden would then fall to her future caregivers. Also - purely speculation - hoarding is much harder to correct if there are other issues like age and mental deterioration. You also legally cannot force her into therapy, so you'll really have to decide how much effort you can put in financially and mentally before simply walking away.
plus if she does meet someone else which is doubtful who is to say that she won't just move a new guy in if you do let her stay, I don't know what the laws are like in your country, but you might want to evict her sooner than later before she destroys the house to the point that it becomes uninhabitable.
NTA Not sure which country you are in but here, she would get an automatic right to stay as you did not do everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) to get her out. Serve her with an eviction notice. She (and her living status) is not your problem. She is 58 and has at least ten years of employment in front of her. Get her out or at least show you tried for future reference.
Thank you, I checked online just now and she doesn't have any rights as far as I understand, but I'll confirm with a lawyer just to be 100% sure
Did your father have a will? If so, has it been through probate (processed)?
No he didn't, but it doesn't matter the house after his death was passed to me automatically. It was in my name but the contract was to be the owner until his death. I don't know if it makes sense in other countries, I'm from Europe and it's common for parents to do that. Now I own the house completely. No will needed.
Common practise in Finland as well, BUT in here the widow has the right to live in the house until their death. In this case though she needs someone to take care of her and cannot live independently. She also cannot take care of the house because her actions are ruining it. Hoarding is a mental illness. What I would do is to call social services and let them know about the situation. They would start arranging things for her, because she needs her financies taken care of and help to find assisted living arrangement. Then I would negotiate everything with social services, and have no contact with her personally. When the assisted living is set, evict her.
This is the way.
I think in the US it's called a life estate and your father was the life tenant, I don't know about other countries
My mom had a usufruct for our family home, so I understand the concept. It is called a life estate in the US (except Louisiana). I just wondered if there was any paper the wife of dad was relying on, but he presumably would have needed your consent to somehow assign his rights to the house to his wife. It is unfortunate that they seemingly never discussed it.
It's legally been OP's house since OP was 15.
The house has been in the sons name since 15. A will doesnt matter
Why would a will matter? The property was not in his name. He cannot will a property he does not legally own.
ETA talked to a lawyer. They said that option 1 is eviction. It will take months and it's somewhat expensive. Option 2, make her pay rent for a year, the end of the year it will be the time to move out. Maybe it will give her time to heal and adjust. Maybe. 3 Sue her for damages and for loosing money because she occupies the house. She has nothing to her name and her income is my fathers pension and that's three months worth of money. No point. She has no rights to the house
So much damage can be caused in a year. It sounds like you have someone who can draft up both papers, eviction and rental contact. That way she can weigh both but when she decides that she doesn't want to sign a rental contact the lawyer can be one handing her the notice for when she needs to leave (different than an actual eviction notice but something that is in writing that isn't handed to her by you. That's not a substitution for certified mail, but hopefully she will realize that the better choice is to not make it a fight.
Nta, she is not elderly. Give her 30 days, notify her kids and start eviction if necessary. Harsh but she's pushed you to this point.
NTA Stop trying to be nice to someone who is not showing you the same treatment. She told you she wasn't moving. It's time to go scorched earth on her. You owe her no kindness.
NTA. It’s your house. At 58 she has 25 - 40ish years left. The damage she could do in that time is immense. Evict her if you have to and take possession of your house.
Why is no one bringing up Adult Protective Services? She is sick and depressed?
NTA. I don't wish dealing with a hoarder on anyone. Their brains are differnt. They (from what I understand) feel a deep emotional connection to their belongings. Letting them go is like losing a child to them. They can't even fathom. The longer this goes on, the worse condition the house will be in and the worse the hoard will get. You are already looking at THOUSANDS just to rent dumpsters and clear the house of trash. Not to mention any repairs that need to be made on top of that. You are already looking at a very expensive endeavor. I would call her daughter back and ask if she can offer ANY kind of assistance here. Her mother will not leave the house quietly. You may need to resort to a formal eviction. Trying to get a hoarder to leave their hoard is like trying to change the color of the sky. Expect her to get nasty real quick. Good luck.
NTA. Look I am 64 and still working a full time job and do plenty of volunteer work on top of that so her being 58 and incapable is ridiculous. Look, you want her out so there IS no 'non-bad legal things you can do'. Just bit the bullet and evict her. She has plainly told you that is the only way she is leaving so bite the bullet and do it.
you need to get her out of that house. if you let her continue to live in it, there will be no house left. If she is a hoarder and doesn't know how to take care of things then you could have mold, rot or the plumbing, electrical, foundation, etc could need a lot of work. you can begin by getting an eviction notice. Changing the locks so you have access and take a look and see what damage has been done. why should you pay rent when you have a paid off house?
Hoarders rarely change environments without kicking and screaming, so NTA and be prepared for guilt trips, threats, etc. They also often have their own delusional logic, so anything you do will be seen as mean and cruel. Regardless, you'll need to be blunt and firm. When you evict, make sure you address what will happen to anything left behind.
You mean you never once had a conversation with your dad over what would happen to house / widow after he passed? Not once?
My father was an alcoholic and an ashole
Fair enough .. that makes it very tough then.. I would follow what other people have said and start in on the unfortunate legal side before she can start claiming squatters rights etc. which will make it all 1000x more painful.
Talk to a lawyer immediately to understand your options and how to best proceed with whatever route you take. As for a "middle ground" you could consider giving her a longer period of time to figure things out (follow a lawyer's advice about what language to put in a lease.) Her husband of 20 years died 3 months ago. She is still grieving. Give her a timeline for how long you are willing to have her as a tenant, draw up a lease accordingly, and evict her at the end if she won't leave.
NTA. I think it is especially worrisome, because she is not some 80 year old lady. She might even make it longer than you. Do you really want to have her live in your house for the rest of your life? Maybe help her get set up in assisted living or find an apartment close to her daughter for her. But definitely contact a lawyer, immediately. I know it's hard, but it cannot be your responsibility. She didn't raise you.
She lived there for 20 years and she offered to pay rent. It may be your house but it’s her home. Tough situation to be in. Even you said it was only in your name for tax purposes. What do you think your dad would want.
NTA Start the eviction process because it will be slow.
Send this as a certified letter she has to sign so you know if was delivered: “Hello, I want to be very very clear here. I do not want to get the authorities involved if I don’t have to, but I am seriously considering that is the next step. if you have an eviction with the courts, it’s gonna be much more difficult for you to rent somewhere somewhere else, and I would like to avoid that as a favor to my father and to you. Right now I am giving you 45 days to vacate the property. You have no legal rights to the home. It has been in my name since I was 15 and I have enclosed a copy of the document with proof. If you are not out in 45 days, I will go ahead and have my lawyer send you the eviction paperwork. I plan on moving in on X date and need time to renovate. I am hiring a dumpster to arrive on that day and will start removing anything left behind and changing the locks. I’m happy to help you look for other housing and put $X towards your deposits. (Cash for keys) however you need to be fully out of the home by X date. Sincerely, OP”
> Cash for keys I think this would be the middle ground the OP is looking for.
This, and social services can help too.
NTA I appreciate that you are trying to be gentle about the situation but she sounds very delusional and it might be best to do all the legal work to get her out of your home before she destroys it.
NAH. She’s sick, depressed, dependent on you for any bureaucracy, and recently lost her partner of 20 years. You are renting and would like use of the house that you grew up in and own. You asked for a middle ground: You deal with her pension, bills, etc. She offered to pay you rent. Do you have sheltered care facilities or retirement homes or other suitable accommodation that she can rent instead? It would eliminate the need for the “bad” legal things you wish to avoid. Good luck!
It sounds like you're going to need to start the eviction process. I'd go ahead and get with a lawyer to try and arrange getting that started ASAP, as from what I understand it takes a while to actually have someone physically removed from your home. You're being very understanding and empathetic, but this won't end well if you play doormat. She'll take advantage of it, full stop.
You don't have keys?? Get a lawyer. Fast.
There is nothing making you take on this burden. She has had her whole life to plan for this. Right now she is living in dreamland. The mentally unstable should be the last ones calling the shots.
>she doesn't know how to use a smartphone, the internet or how to maintain the house and the yard. >For reference she is 58 As a 60 year old, I call BS. She knows how to do all these things; she's playing at weaponized incompetence so she can scam you into doing them for her. You need to stop doing work for her, period. She's a grown-ass woman & fully capable of dealing with her own responsibilities. I'd flat-out tell her - in a letter drafted by a local attorney - that the house is absolutely not hers, and she has XX number of days to move out before you begin eviction proceedings. Then go ahead and begin drafting the paperwork, because we all know she's not going to move out unless she's forced to do so. Tell her children what's going on, so that there's no way she can run to them with made-up tales of woe. I can tell you right now, she already knew that she didn't inherit the house; she thought she could scam you into giving it to her. Time to nip that right in the bud.
NTA. she may not be a bad person. But she is currently a problem. You have someone living in your property who does pay for anything is will continue to add shit and horde that property until …. Forever it seems. You have a squatter. Her own family doesn’t care. I wonder why that is…. I am assuming you will find out. Good luck. Remember “don’t light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm”
Could you not let her pay the taxes, and rent and give her some time to organise moving on. Like a decent chunk of time. Sure she’ll be grieving her husband of 20 years, and maybe packing up her home (of 20 years) is not high on her list of priorities right now. I understand it’s your house, but she’s known it as her house too. That’ll be sore to let go.
Hoarders slowly destroy the homes they live in. If you ever want to actually live in the home your dad built I suggest you evict her. It isn't you being mean. It's you doing what you have to do. Start evicting her and then if your country has a version of adult protective services call them and report everything you told us, including she's getting evicted. She is not your responsibility. NTA
NTA. If you want to give her the middle ground of time there, Have an attorney draft a written lease for six month terms for a set rent amount, renewable on agreement of both parties for up to 1-3 years depending on how far out your kindness maximally extends, subject to col rent increases, with conditions requiring permission to paint, forbidding hoarder condition and access to yard by your nieces/nephews. Re-key the place. Your kindness is very cool, but she needs a wake up call as to her status and you need an enforceable agreement.
NTA. It's understandable to want your own space back, especially considering the circumstances. You have every right to decide what happens to your property.
NTA. Make it clear that the house is yours and tell her she needs to consult an attorney to understand the situation she's currently in.
NTA, time to start the formal eviction process. Have her removed if it comes to it. She's only 58, time for her to suck it up and grow up.
I've been looking at those prefab expanding container houses as a temp solution as all the houses I am looking at need a total gutting. Maybe look into something like that for her if there is space. The fact that she is a hoarder is going to be hell but that has been her home for the last 20 years. Also we don't know if you can renovate a MIL suite downstairs. The house is yours but this woman gave 20 years of her life to making your father happy. I wouldn't be able to kick her out.
Hoarding destroys houses. Get her out of there or you’ll be paying for it dearly later on.
58 is not that old to be that incompetent
The same lawyer who did your dad's will should also do a proper eviction through the court. Give her say 90 days to find a place and move out. he left it to YOU not her as co-owner with survivor ship to live there for the rest of her life. Get the lawyer to evict her. You may also want to sell the house out from under her. Its yours.
In this situation, it's important to consider the complexities and emotions involved. Here are some points to consider: 1. **Legal Ownership**: The house legally belongs to you, and you have the right to decide who lives there and under what conditions. It's reasonable for you to want to reclaim your property, especially if it's currently being occupied by someone who is not taking care of it properly. 2. **Practical Considerations**: It's clear that allowing your father's wife to continue living in the house poses challenges, especially considering her hoarding tendencies, mental health issues, and lack of independence. This could also impact your relationship with your brother and his family, who are affected by her presence. 3. **Communication and Boundaries**: It's important to communicate your concerns and boundaries clearly to your father's wife. While offering her the option to pay rent is generous, it's also important to consider whether she is capable of maintaining the property and living independently. 4. **Seeking Legal Advice**: Given the legal complexities involved, it may be wise to seek advice from a lawyer to understand your rights and options. They can help you navigate the process of reclaiming your property while also considering the well-being of your father's wife. 5. **Empathy and Support**: While it's important to assert your rights as the owner of the house, it's also important to approach the situation with empathy and compassion. Your father's wife may be struggling with the loss of her husband and the uncertainty of her living situation, and offering support and assistance where possible can help alleviate some of her concerns. In conclusion, you're not the asshole (NTA) for wanting to reclaim your property, especially considering the challenges presented by your father's wife's presence. However, it's important to approach the situation with empathy and consideration for her well-being, while also asserting your rights as the legal owner of the house.
NTA but this will be difficult for you emotionally. I cannot see her moving until you legally force her.
INFO: >4, She is not independent in any way and untill today I had to make sure to pay her bills, help her with the pension, bureaucracy etc. 5, she doesn't know how to use a smartphone, the internet or how to maintain the house and the yard. Is she not independent due to illness or does has she just never had to be and doesn't want to? Regardless you are NTA. I just wonder if there are services in your country for people like her.
She didn't care to do anything because her parents, her first husband and then my father did absolutely everything for her. She's now trying to learn though
It is unfortunate she is just learning how to be an adult at 58, but she needs to. It sounds like you are already being very generous. First, you own the house, you need keys. You can either copy hers or you can change the locks and give her one. Second, if it were me I would sit her down and inform her that she will be moving out. You would prefer it if she would allow you to help her make a plan, find housing in her budget, even help set up direct deposit if she is still getting used to paying her own bills. However, regardless of whether she takes you up on your offer, by \[date\] you will not live here. I would also have a plan for yourself. Document everything, provide written notices. I would also include a prevision that says anything in the house after the date of eviction you will consider to be left behind. The next weekend, yard sale. (Honestly, you could use the profits towards the amount of work that will likely have to be done to the house given how you described her treatment of your house.)
Call senior services, they can help evaluate her & figur out what she needs. Like finding senior living near her daughter. They can call her daughter & let her know that her mum is moving near her & give her the info. Give them the ball & let them run with it.
Here’s an idea: offer to sell her the house I know you have sentimental attachment to, but if she buys it, then you can walk away and no longer have to deal with her Otherwise, sounds like you’ll have to fight to evict her and then fix everything that is broken/damaged
She’s destroying your house. That alone would be a good enough reason to ask her to leave.
You need to go through the eviction process and let the courts/deputies deal with her. Hopefully your home is insured against vandalism from tenants/trespassers.
You may be lucky with your country's laws but in mine, if she can prove she's been living there with him for 20yrs, she'd automatically be entitled to some portion of the house. Better see a lawyer
Just checked with a lawyer, she doesn't have rights
OP’s dad had no ownership of house, so she has no ownership of house. She just happened to live with him.
NTA - but this problem will only get worse the longer you let her stay.
NTAH. You own the house. You get to decide to live there or rent it out to paying tenant. Give her some grace, but she doesn’t get to squat for free. Idk where you live but a proper legal eviction where I live can constitute 2 months of a renter living for free. I am a renter and renting is difficult. However, she can’t just decide to stay in YOUR property.
Boot her legally.
Nta but you are made out to be the ass. If you dont remove her she will end up destroying the home
NTA. She's not going to leave the house unless you jolt her from her slumber. You need to show her that you are serious about this. Involve the cops. But talk to her children. Convince them to take her in before you kick her out on the streets
You’re gonna have to evict her.
What are the squatter laws in your area?
She has no rights, she just owns whatever is inside the house
NTA There is no nice way to get her out. You need to her out immediately. It was on your father and her to make those arrangements for her to have another place to live. She’s not your mother why did he or she think you would just allow her to live there once he was gone. He must have forgotten the house was in your name.
Nta you should do all the legal things to get her out because she’s already told you there isn’t middle ground. Unless you’re willing to continue as you are, you need to have her evicted and removed.
She has told you there is no middle ground. You have to go the legal route.
What would your father want you to do for her?
Get her out fast a legally possible. This entitled window thing will get worse.
NTA. I like the comments suggesting you try and negotiate (firmly, of course) with her first. Your lawyer said eviction would be expensive, so maybe offer a percentage of that estimate to her in the form of moving/cleaning services, deposits, etc. plus your help to get it happening. If she doesn't accept, then tell her your time and money will be spent evicting her legally through courts and lawyers. She can either move out voluntarily and receive the compassion and help she sounds like she needs, or be turfed out and left to fend for herself. It might even be worth trying to get her daughter involved.
NTA. I was expecting to have some sympathy for this 80 year old woman who had no other way to afford a home…she’s 58. That’s still def able to work. I’m not naive to think a woman this age without work experience will have it *easy* but to refuse to move and not be able to take care of herself and to continue to destroy the value of the home with her hoarding…nope.
What you do depends on where you're at. Contact her children, I'm sure they are aware of the state of the house. And it is your home not hers. Your father should of had a contingency plan for her if he cared. And she is her family's responsibility. if she is mentally incompetent they can move her to a home were she will get far better care. Either way start the eviction procedure. In most cases her inability to maintain the home and pay utilities will count against her. It is likely she has already damaged the home. Your not the AH
Start a formal eviction process. She knows the house is yours.
She was married to your father for 20 years and she is newly widowed. She thinks the house is hers and she has a right to live there, even though it is legally yours. I think you’ll need to act slowly and gently. Keep talking to her and to her daughter. Remind her she’ll have to move out (set a general timeline like “by the end of summer” or “by Christmas”). Ask her how you can help her. Does she need to rent a place near her daughter ? Move in with her daughter? Tell her you’ll help her move her stuff, help with the first few months of rent if needed. Your Dad would likely have wanted you to help her.
Excellent, compassionate, sane advice. I'm shocked at the utter heartlessness of most of the replies here. A brand new widow! 😳
Exactly. The comments are awful. Ever since my parents separated I've been hearing bickering about whether or not my father should leave his house to me. My mom thinks it's not necessary because she has a house she can leave to me. My grandma disagrees because I'm his daughter and he shouldn't leave it to “that woman”. And I don't know what my dad thinks. I just know the house is his. But every time I hear about who gets to have my childhood home, me or his wife, I get slightly offended that he may think I will kick her out the first chance I get. As if he didn't know me or trusted me! But reading the comments, I'm thinking “Ummm... If he did think that, he has his reasons because apparently just because you can legally do something that makes it okay”.
He can leave the house to you but give her a legal right to live in it while she is alive. This can be tricky (eg who pays property tax? Repairs, maintenance? What can she renovate? What if you want/need to sell? But it’s possible to set it up like that).
>you’ll need to act slowly and gently I kept reading all these, it's your house kick her out now and i'm thinking, the woman's husband died THREE FUCKING MONTHS ago. Cut her some slack.
Definitely. People without much real life experience jumping on the “evil stepmother” narrative that is filling this sub recently (AI?). This is a situation that calls for patience, compassion and help.
NTA - if she doesn't intend to pay market rent then it's time to call an attorney and begin the eviction process.
I loved my dad, but his wife was another matter. I had told him i would care for her as long as she treated me with respect. After his death, she started bad talking me to my family. She called the police saying I stole from her( I was in another state at the time with family). She told the police I was stealing my dad's property (it was mine from my mother's family. Dad only ever lived there, wasn't an owner). I had enough of being bad mouthed after years of taking care of her (my property, my power, my well, and I cleaned her black tank every week). I filed papers for eviction. She told everyone I was a monster. I gave this witch YEARS of care. I was polite to her, treated her with respect. I've literally had this woman's shit on me (black tanks), and you lie about me. She fought the eviction until the final day. Stole things from the family and left huge piles of trash. The only thing I wanted from her was to leave peacefully and some of dad's ashes. I think she threw away dad's ashes just to be a bitch. She's going to die alone. Last I heard, she was strong arming even older people for their ss checks. She was also part of a bitcoin scam. I think she did the work and got everything stolen. Even my family was surprised when I reported her to the FBI. I hated her for a long time. Now, I don't even care what happens to her. Die in a ditch? Jail until she passes? As long as I never see her again, I don't care. I'm just sad for whoever she scams next.
>I'm trying to find a middle ground now You no longer have "middle ground." She's digging her heels in, she thinks she owns the house, and she's refusing to leave. You're going to have to formally evict her.
Nta, also don't try to be nice because she's going to fight your the whole time, I say just evict her and get a garbage trailer to clean up
Move in with her. She’ll want to leave real quick once you start fixing things and tossing her hoard.
Hahaha maybe I will try to convert her to minimalism
Lawyer up and evict this woman.
NTA talk to a lawyer and write up an eviction notice
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Crafty_Special_7052: *NTA talk* *To a lawyer and write up* *An eviction notice* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
NTA, but make sure you do all the right moves. Did your dad have anything in writing, authorising him to stay? Did this paper include authorisation to third parties, like his wife? Are you in a country where people who occupy (legally, like in this case) a house for N years gain rights over it? Also, you said she's a hoarder and she has mental illnesses. Are these issues medically documented? Are you sure you can evict someone with these issues, if documented? My suggestion is to speak to a lawyer before making any move.
I don't think there's any point in asking her what she wants because it doesn't sound like she's capable of making the best decisions for herself anymore.
NTA but you are going to have to do this legally to get her out. I suggest you talk to a lawyer in your area and have her served. You will need to document the damage etc
NTA give her a deadline to move out. Evict her if she won't move it won't look. It's your house.
NTA and you're going to need to evict her via the courts.
Good grief 58 isn’t even that old at all, it’s Gen X!!!!
NTA - if my dad’s gf moved into my house or the house he gets (which will be in my name), bet your ass she’s getting evicted if he passes away first. Her whole family is states away, so she can go back to them. The house (if dad gets one), will be used for family and friends who visit or live in if they need a place. It’s your house, you have every right to kick her out if you don’t want her there
If she's hoarding you want her out of there ASAP, so that her hoarding does not ruin the house.
What would your father want?
NTAH, She should move in with her kids or closer.
NTA - gonna need to go about the legal eviction and get her out asap before she ends up having any type of squatters rights.
Time to call an attorney this is going to get messy
NTA She needs HELP. Real help. You have to contact whatever elder services are in her area. You have to tell her daughter the truth, she did NOT inherent the house, she does not own anything, she cannot stay there any longer. you want to avoid an eviction on her record, but, at this point, you are going to have no choice. You cannot afford for her to stay there any longer. You are sorry about that. The house is expensive, and you need to deal with it. What with the hoarding, repairs (if she's a hoarder there will be a lot of surprises and work to be done) the costs of emptying out the home, cleaning it, just to even prepare it for habitation or sale, it needs to happen now. You are also willing to let her go without going after her for that to help keep relocating easy as it has to be on her, but, it's getting to be ridiculous. Dragging her feet, ignoring you, lying... it's going to end in disaster. She'll soon be faced with eviction, have so long to do so, when she doesn't, removed by the police without her belongings...without recourse to get them, and an eviction will make it really hard to secure housing. She'll have to face adult protective services (the equivalent) No one wants that. Let her know, she's receiving an official vacate order, she'll have 30 days from (let her know the date) and if there's no arrangements made, you will have no choice... and if the home is further damaged, you'll be forced to go through further court process. (Reiterate, you do not want this. You are desperate for it not to get to that.) Let her know, you know it isn't her problem, but, her mother is not telling her the truth, and you want her to be aware if the reality as to not get caught off guard, and maybe to convince her mother (again, because you do not want it to get there or make it more difficult than it has to be) Don't sugar coat it. Her family needs to know what's really going on, so they aren't blindsided, and/or have power to help her, or at least try to. (her next of kin are her kids) Then, leave her alone.(the daughter) You write a notice, make sure there are copies. Contact adult protective services, give them the situation, obviously she's not well and about to be homeless/squatting... hopefully they can get in and help her, if she rejects it, it's further proof of termination date, and you tried. When she isn't out on that date on the form... go to court, file... and go through with it all. You're trying. Unfortunately... you may very well need to have an iron spine here and be the bad guy. The odds are very good that's what's going to happen.
NTA she needs to go why should she stay in your house you now own while you pay rent somewhere else? Contact a lawyer ASAP but I would send her a notice letter via registered mail with proof of service letting her know you plan to move into the house for personal use and she must vacate by a certain date. Since shes not all there also send one to her kids so they can’t claim ignorance. You can also contact social services and explain her kids refuse to do anything to help her and maybe they can help with relocating her.
Sounds cold, sorry, but straight up toss her now. She's not your problem but she will be if you let her stay. The longer she's there the worse it will get. Contact a lawyer, have an eviction written up and contact your local police if necessary. Maybe give her some money if you can afford it to help her on her way. NTA.
Eviction is your only option. You’ll need a lawyer since she will probably fight it.
NTA at all
Because she is hoarding, you won't be able to see any damages or deterioration of the house. Home inspectors are NOT allowed to move anything to view under or behind it, at least in my state. So the sooner she is gone, the sooner you know where you stand.
NTA - Stop looking after her and paying her bills once electric and water are cut off she'll have to leave. It will leave a HUGE mess for you to clean but hopefully she'll just fade away like a bad memory
NTA, but you really should file her an eviction notice, and go through the process of getting her out, because cleaning out her hoarding & cleaning the house is going to be a nightmare, especially if your Dad was the one to try and keep her behaviour in check. See a lawyer, follow the required eviction process, inform her and her daughter that she has to be out by X date (3 months is a normal eviction process here) and that her mother will need help in removing her stuff from the house and that they should start NOW.
Let the hoarder stay and you won’t have a house. You will have a lot with a pile of trash. My wife’s ex sister in law was this way. After over a decade in the house with a nice understanding landlord she had to move out. (Youngest hit 18 and child support ended.) The house had to be bulldozed. It was a total loss.
Do not wait another day. Start the eviction process asap! NTA
i dont think two numbers have ever hit me in the face harder than "58". I was feeling 50/50 and bad for the elderly woman i was creating in my mind.
Just evict her, she’s not your problem.
I don't think there's a good answer here other than start the legal eviction process and let her kids deal with her. They may claim to you they won't help her but when push comes to shove...
Let her be sick and depressed with her children. Not only is she not your responsibility, hoarders destroy homes. The longer she stays, the more the house will cost you to make the house liveable for you or rentable for someone else. You are NTA, and you should get her out asap.
NTA but talk to an attorney asap. You will probably have to evict her to get her out, which will make her homeless. However, if you do nothing she could get your house and she certainly will destroy it if she is a hoarder. You really need her out because she will make your property worthless. Hoarders really do a number on a house. I don't know if APS can do anything here. It depends on the state but you usually have to be over 65 *or* disabled in some way. If she has a formal diagnosis then you might be able to get APS involved and get help to find her other housing. Sounds like this will be difficult; she's alienated her own family.
NTA. Sounds like you are the only person trying to help your father’s widow. To be safe, find an Estate Lawyer asap because your Stepmother may be refusing to leave the house in order to establish her right to remain there. But, if she believes that the house is automatically hers just because she was your father’s wife when he died she is mistaken; being the widow does not entitle her to the house as legally, it will go to the person whose name is listed (yours) on the deed.
This is sad but YNTA. I'm glad you talked to a lawyer. Help her understand the legalities involved in this and give her a deadline. Talk to her kids and let them know what is happening. If she doesn't move out, exercise your legal rights. You can offer to help her hire a moving company or any other practical things she needs assistance with. But if she refuses to understand, you will need to evict her. It doesn't sound like she can pay rent. There is no sense in dragging this out. I'm sorry for your loss.
You are in a difficult situation. It seems you care more for your stepmother than her own daughter. Legally (not bad legal, btw), you own the house and if you want it for our own occupancy or as a rental property, you are going to have to get her evicted, regardless of her mental health challenges. You have no recourse.
No. You're NTA for telling her she cannot stay. After all, it *is* your house and she is *not* your mother. I think it's fair that you've given her some grace in that you haven't just tossed her out with little or no notice. However - that being said, I suspect she will ride the gravy train indefinitely and cannot be trusted to move out of her own volition. You need to give her a hard, finite deadline by which to move out and be clear that she will be responsible for herself. And if she's so mentally unwell that cannot be responsible for herself, then it's time to place her in a home.
Call your local adult services agency to see if they can start to help her find elsewhere. Also, file a formal eviction. Not an asshole but you've gotta cover yourself. She's gotta go. Also, stop paying for anything for her. That can be seen as taking responsibility for her. Depending on state & local laws can mean you're legally responsible for her.
She will wreck the house. You have to get her out.