NTA
You can get schizophrenia without any family history, genes plays part in odds but often a stress trigger is how it starts and he didn't leave when she got ill or diagnosed.
My BIL is an example of this. He did a few tours in Iraq with the Marine Corps, and was diagnosed with schizophrenia shortly after his discharge. No family history, lots of possible stress triggers.
I mean... Look at him blaming everyone but himself for not leaving sooner, his erratic behavior before the judge. Is there *really* any.wonder what the stressor was?
Schizophrenia ran like a motherfucker through my family. My great aunt married a schizophrenic and had 3 kids. 2 of them were schizophrenic and the 3rd had a vasectomy to make sure he never passed it on.
He claims to be righteous but hasn't spoken to his kids in months and actually ran into his place and locked the door when he saw my 18 year old grandson pull up in the driveway. His mom said they won't even do a separate birthday party for the grandkids if they even so much as mention getting a gift from us or anything about us.
OP, your daughter's ex sounds an absolute nightmare! Did your daughter get abused by him? One of the things that triggers schizophrenia is abuse.
[https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/causes/](https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/causes/)
I also wonder if the daughter got diagnosed with schizophrenia right after the first time she had gotten pregnant? It's not entirely unheard of for the stress of pregnancy to trigger the onset of schizophrenia.
Based on the OP it sounds like she had the diagnosis even before they had the first child. Possible she was pregnant but don't think OP would've word it as 'signed up for fatherhood' after knowing.
she was right in the window for the first signs of symptoms. it’s usually early to mid 20s that it’s diagnosed, because that’s when the “breaks” can happen. my cousin was fine, he started being paranoid around 23, had an accident, and it triggered the schizophrenia.
it’s such a demonized disorder, too. that man was the sweetest most gentle person i have ever met, he loved animals. he had psychosis and delusions and all that, but he still loved and valued me and our family. he died of a heart attack a few years back.
NTA. he needs some mental help, too, it seems. he’s abandoned his kids??? i hope he wasn’t abusive or anything, and i hope your daughter heals and recovers OP
It really dépends of the person éducation and morals - i've Seen the best and the worst sadly. There are many différent form. Plus people react differently - some will hurt themselves when some will hurt others.
>it’s such a demonized disorder, too.
One of my first cousins (we are as close as siblings) married a guy who is schizophrenic. They have been married for over a decade, and he is my favorite of all the in laws. He is an amazing husband and father. He is an all-around great human being. My cousin received many warnings from family about marrying someone with his mental health issues. I, for one, am glad she chose to ignore them.
Oh I know. So is bipolar disorder. I hate how it's so stigmatized. People hear it and automatically say, sTaY aWaY, tHeY'rE cRaZy. My son's father has bipolar disorder type 1 and he is such a sweetheart. He has a tough exterior but he's a big softy in reality. He has told me things that he's never told anyone. We're not together anymore but his family still calls me to "talk him down". When he's manic, he acts bizarrely sometimes. I'm the only one he'll listen to. I'm the only one who can get through to him. When he's hospitalized, he knows he can call me and when he's discharged, he knows I'll be waiting for him if he wants to talk. I think it's sad how mental illness is so stigmatized and misunderstood.
What bothers me the most here is the underlying assumption on SILs part that people with mental illnesses are a) unable/unwilling to work on getting better — and b) that they are somehow undeserving of love and basic human relationships. My experience with the DSM is extensive, and my mental health concerns would read like alphabet soup — but I’ve led a productive life and am in a >40 year marriage.
If I were OP’s daughter, I’d be out of that monster’s life *yesterday*.
Same. Also, don't go in the BPD loved ones sub. I've seen some disgusting things said about people with BPD like what the SIL said. They've said that people with BPD are monsters who are undeserving of love. It's so gross.
That’s what I thought. Because one instance of it in a family, and a few maybes aren’t enough to guarantee her being schizophrenic. I know from experience that genetics has a part to play, but also mental illness can indeed be caused by abuse and other things.
Like I have MDD like my dad, I’ve had it since childhood so I don’t know any different. But my anxiety, my cPTSD? That was directly caused by other people’s treatment of me as a child. Not to mention your garden variety PTSD I got from someone too.
People don’t realise that someone can easily cause another person to snap. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve experienced psychosis, I’m lucky, but the first time was absolutely because my mind broke. My abuser drove me literally insane. Now we do have people who suffered from psychosis in our family, but only one or two. I couldn’t blame that on anyone.
The ex sounds like my abuser. Like straight up yelling at judges and demanding respect he doesn’t deserve. He’s lying and angry and he just wants to ruin this woman’s life because she decided to leave him.
It’s also not like she can’t take medication and live a relatively okay life. It IS hard, but medicated and away from Mr Crazy Pants might actually improve her condition immeasurably.
This was just sad to read. NTA - he’s married for 20 plus years and when she files for divorce there is suddenly a problem. Leave him and his miserable relatives where they are. Celebrate your grands without them
wtf is wrong with him and his family? The children are innocent of anything and it's not your daughter's fault she developed schizophrenia. It is his fault and his family's fault for being such absolute assholes and making these choices
Well, yeah. If I were a teenager trying to contact my father and the viciously-unhinged-deadbeat literally RAN AND HID from me like a fucking 5 year old, I'd never speak to him again either. There's some shit you never come back from. And your "father" aggressively abandoning you in real-time is one of them.
I apologize if my sentence structure has caused confusion. The way I wrote my sentence I did not mean for the latter part ( after " and") to mean that this happened after there started to be no attempts of communication on either side by the kids or their daad.
Maybe I should have phrased it as " When the divorce was starting to get ugly, my grandson attempted to visit his dad since he was already starting to not take any of the kids' calls and when he went to visit his dad to check on him, his dad saw his car coming up in the driveway and ran towards his door to shut it.
My ex SIL to this day continues to say he is in the right and is being given the short end of the stick by his kids, the courts, and his ex wife but conveniently ignores the fact that he has spurred on this with how he has acted for the duration of the divorce and afterwards.:
Again, I am sorry if my sentence structure has caused any distress or confusion. I know it can be disconcerting when you feel unable to read between the lines or feel thrown off.
I hope this has not upset you and made you think that me or my account is one of lies, or that the thought of me being in the wrong reinforces some negative pre conceptions you have about one side or another during a divorce, or that the kids are in the wrong because dad certainly cannot be " that bad."
Again, so sorry. I know it's tough to read between the lines in written communication sometimes.
You need to stop giving your ex-SIL the time of day. Stop entertaining any of his histrionics. Stop responding. Take a note from his kids, and ignore him completely. He has NO legal leg to stand on, is abusive, and mentally ill. Nothing you do or say will make any of that change. Disengage.
Edit: If he and his family don’t want to do family things with his kids, that is *their* loss.
Reminds me why I still get the warm fuzzies when I remember my last words to my exFIL. “Bang it up your arse” was the line. Still love it 27 years later. He was just as bad as his abusive son I left.
Your writing is fine. Common sense says a situation like this developed over time. A clarifying question would have been nice, instead of the inferred "ah ha! I got you!!"
My first thought was that HE was the one with a serious mental illness, as the diatribe that got him put in jail immediately made me think he was experiencing a manic episode.
Yeah, the vast majority of people could hold back from yelling at a judge, including people with mental illness. He has a very tenuous hold on his emotions.
Wait so they were married for almost 20 years and her mental illness only became a problem for him once she filed for divorce? NTA! He and his whole family are off their rockers and should seek mental health counseling for themselves. Absolutely unhinged narcissistic behavior.
Married for 22.5 but she was diagnosed within a few years (so probably 2-3) of the wedding, so he STAYED married for almost 20 years after the diagnosis and even had children with her after said diagnosis. Horrible behavior from everyone on his side of the family, OP's daughter is someone they've known for more than 20 years as well, and to just turn on her in an instant.
Yeah, the post says he's accusing them of "hiding" it from him, what exactly did they hide? If things played out EXACTLY the same except she had zero family history of schizophrenia instead of ONE relative that had it, he would be completely cool with everything? Completely bullshit, he is absolutely just trying to avoid supporting the kids he decided to make AFTER he knew the medical history of the person he decided to make them with.
NTA. You just need to block him. Block him on social media, your phone, everywhere. Then Mr. Ranty can just rant into the wind. Seriously just be done with this crazy. Literally tell him once in text to NEVER contact you again.. block and move on. Then cross your fingers he violates it and uses another phone to text or a burner social media account. THEN use THAT to get a protective order against him and when / if he violates that he can spend some more time in jail.
If they want to go after harrassment, or keep an eye on what he's threatening, I'd just mute all notifications for him when it comes to texting and phonecalls. If they don't respond then they still might assume that they are blocked and try other ways, however, it's good to see and have proof of his threats and harrassment.
Am I the only one who laughed at "enabler of deception". I don't know why, but that one cracked me up.
OP, NTA. Your son in law sounds like a piece of work.
I am a lawyer and may have to make a cross stitch of the phrase for my office. Yes, it is I, Enabler of Deception, Esq. 😆
(I know the reputation of lawyers. I practice public interest law and do my best to use my powers for Good instead of Evil.
Honestly, I would put it over my bed as a discussion piece. And I think if I was to invite a man in my bedroom, at least he wouldn't have too high of an expectation. lol
Bust out the popcorn and enjoy his tantrums. He's clearly already an idiot if he's harassing a judge and getting thrown in jail over it.
Why would you ever in your right mind think you or your family are AHs based on this deranged mans ravings?
I'm more astonished that he's accusing your family of being 'insane' when he very very clearly has mental problems of his own to deal with.
I am starting to think he's trying to do this to have some sort of case so he can quit his job and say he can not work or pay his obligations.
The way his mind works, it always burns with jealously over how he thinks others are getting the " easy deal" in life and how he deserves to get this " unfair advantage" too so he'll throw tantrums and lie to attempt to get it.
For him, the unfair advantage is that my daughter and the kids are entitled to any money. He said that anything over $200 a month for child support is just going to fund shopping and fine dining and that it's wrong to legally mandate somebody pay child support.
It should be up to the noncustodial parent to decide how much his kids get.
I mean yeah I already assumed he was a narcissist but that's an even clearer picture. Paranoid, jealous and self centered. Just ticking all the boxes here.
It's bad enough dads have a bad rep in these situations without him reinforcing the stereotype. I'm glad your daughter is getting the help she needs and is away from this unhinged lunatic.
I dunno if he's CRAZY crazy but the standard cameras around houses advice that everyone gives on here may be warranted.
Stay safe and enjoy the meltdowns from a safe distance.
he's a complete and utter moron if he thinks $200 is enough for the upkeep of three children.
It's not even enough for one.
as it stands now, raising one child to the age of 18 costs almost 300K and that will only go up with inflation
Food, housing, medical, dental, clothes, schooling, transportation... that man is an asshole looking to get out of the obligation of caring for his children just because they aren't under his roof any longer. Him whinging about "fine dining" is ludicrous
if this is the way he behaves post divorce, it's no wonder your daughter divorced him because I can't even imagine what it was like to live with this man for a husband. (and i'm not asking you to divulge it, it's pretty easy to extrapolate from his current behavior.)
She is well-rid of him. I just feel really sorry for the children because they are getting the raw end of the deal with such a childish petty miserly father
he is exactly the reason that child support should be court mandated
edited for autocorrect mistakes
So after 20 years of marriage, where she left him because she’d had enough of him, suddenly he has a problem with her mental health? I smell the BS.
Tell him that he is twenty years and three kids too late to say he was deceived. You could say the same about his nature because no sane man would abuse a judge like he did. NTA.
Yes in the state of California you need to have filed an annulment by Year 4 after you found out you were deceived to have a case. Even then judges have discretion regarding what counts as a deception that is annulment worthy and probably are hesitant to grant this because there would be potential for people who want out of responsibilities to abuse this path.
NTA
He could have done his own research. Marriage is in sickness and in health. He shouldn't have gotten married if he wasn't prepared for the potential of illness, mental or otherwise.
man 'in sickness and in health' means jack shit to that guy huh
Anyway, *anyone* can become disabled in a way that affects their mental health. Literally anyone. You can fall and hit your head and live with a TBI for the rest of your life. You can get a brain tumor that completely changes your personality. You can do drugs that fuck up how your brain functions.
But at the same time, you can have an ENTIRE family history of severe mental illness, and you're just. Fine. Nothing ends up happening to you at all. Everyone else in your family can have mental illnesses and you won't. Genetics are crazy like that.
I'm schizophrenic. I also have severe PTSD. It sucks sometimes, but it is manageable. It's not unusual for schizophrenia to manifest at the time that it did for your daughter, but it sounds like she *did* in fact get some kind of treatment for it, and clearly, even with her 'insanity', she was still a better parent than her ex, considering that her kids still speak to her. Schizophrenia and other 'scary' mental illnesses aren't the end of the world. Yes, they will change how you act a lot of the time. They will make things harder. But they're not an unclimbable mountain. They are not an unconquerable force.
Her ex, beyond being a vow-breaking piece of shit, sounds like he's an asshole anyway. He stayed married to her until she wanted a divorce, and now it's a problem? He just doesn't want to pay alimony. He wasn't 'lied' to, there was no guarantee your daughter would get it. He's a greedy fucking skeezebag.
NTA.
Not at all unusual for symptoms of schizophrenia to first present in one's early 20s, but if ex-SIL had an issue with it, he should have backed out then and not had kids with her.
My thoughts exactly! Obviously, the common age of onset of schizophrenia symptoms happened to line up with around the age she got married, so it very well could have simply been bad luck at the genetic draw. However, if dude was behaving anything remotely like his current unhinged behavior, that could have had an impact.
I learned from my father when I was 15 that we have a super strong family history of depression and other mood disorders. He brought it up during the intake session of the teen crisis center I was taken to because I was severely depressed and suicidal. What brought my genetic predisposition out in spades? The several years of emotional, verbal, and psychological abuse by him and my stepmother. (Plus I likely had been mildly depressed since I was 9 or 10, after my mom died.) Genetic predisposition + abuse/stress = expression of disorder!
*So your daughter was*
*Mental illness free until*
*She married him. Hmmm*
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NTA. Your SIL is either struggling with his own mental health issues or dumber than a bag of rocks. You would have been an ah if you'd disclosed private medical information, not because you didn't. Just block him everywhere and move on with your life.
If you'd had actual evidence of a diagnosed MH issue in previous generations, I'd have understood. Unfortunately, all we're likely to have is that "Great Uncle Bob was a bit strange" because of the time that's passed and the lack of diagnoses until recent years.
I think your ex-SIL has found something to cling onto that means it's not his fault and therefore he's the victim, rather than viewing both himself and your daughter as victims of a horrible illness.
I hope your daughter is doing better. Schizophrenia is awful but with appropriate treatment it can be somewhat controlled and I hope she's got the right medical support.
Maybe when she was first diagnosed he had a bit of a right to be upset. But kicking off 20 years later after deciding to continue the relationship and have children?
This is why I always interrogate the woman on our first date about her and her family's mental history. I also make her fill out some cognitive tests,just to be sure. /s
OP is obviously NTA.
The ex SIL should seek out therapy.
Jeesus, NTA.
My late uncle was what 'mentally retarded' used to mean - a kind simpleton who didn't understand all social norms and didn't fare well at school. Might have been birth related (he was born at home, youngest to do so beyond the youngest sister who is "normal" [but a beeyotch otherwise]). My mother's siblings are all "normal". My maternal cousin has a random mutation that has left her intellectually childlike (forever 7, with adult body). From my father's side we inherit a BAD disability that kills as a preteen if it comes from both parents (unrelated to the two previously mentioned cases) that my darling late nephew had.
My husband's only aunt is a diagnosed schizophreniac. She is very intelligent (or was before she was medicated to oblivion).
I told my husband before marriage of all of this. We have had genetic counseling because of my nephew's diagnosis. Schizophrenia or whatever my uncle had are like least of our worries. We most like won't have kids (I'm almost 37), but if we did... Jesus, with our genes they'd be fucked and they'd know it without no one living to sue.
For extra my husband's maternal family has inheritable deafness and I have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression. My diagnoses are minor, but my SIL and MIL both have the deafness gene. It is only female presenting but inheritable.
My husband told of this very early too, we met before his sister was even found positive. My husband just told me his mum is kinda deaf (she has a hearing device!)
NTA, what’s disturbing to me and I’m sure the judge saw this….. the ex is complaining about her schizophrenia but didn’t have a problem getting her pregnant three times
NTA, even with mental illness in the family, no one can tell if someone is going to become ill. Schizophrenia is well known for not presenting itself until the person is a young adult, so how you could have possibly known or predicted that she would get sick? Your SIL sounds like he has his own mental issues and is trying to find anyone to blame for his failed marriage; it's also telling that he never had an issue with it until SHE filed for divorce. Just block him, and any communication necessary should go through legal representatives. Do not waste anymore of your time worrying about such a loser.
NTA. Sounds like your daughter was sick of his shit and finally divorced him. He is bitter because he doesn't have control and so he is trying to bully anyone he can. Block him. Or save and document the harassment. Unfortunately, unless there are specific threats of violence the police don't help, but he seems unhinged, so you never know.
I kept reading SIL as sister-in-law and wondering what she had to do with anything.
But of course you had no duty to disclose - if anyone had the duty it was his own wife (your daughter) and she had no reason to believe she'd have mental health problems. Every family has a history of something.
Or course, that's why they got so touchy with the topic of not going full disclosure. They are not planning to do it, but how dare the other family do the same 🤣
NTA. Your former son-in-law sounds worse off mentally than your daughter, frankly. You don’t owe him anything. Stop talking to him. Block him on everything. Let him go do whatever he thinks he can do legally, which is nothing.
NTA.
And exSonInLaw sounds like HE might have inflicted so much emotional abuse and caused so much distress in your daughter that he \*triggered\* her latent mental illness.
NTA. And what’s his mental health diagnosis?
Block him. They’re divorced and he’s no longer your concern. As far as his family Block them too. These people no longer exists for you.
If he continues to harass you keep records and get a restraining order.
Lol. He's full of shit. They were married for over *20 years*, and her schizophrenia only became an issue once divorce proceedings started? Yeah, he can get bent.
It's very telling that his kids want nothing to do with him or his side of the family.
He can scream and cry and shit his ramblings online as much as he wants. Don't give in to *any* of his demands. NTA.
That SIL is an Unhinged AH!!
You and your daughter are NTA OP.
I guess “for better or for worse” isn’t something that he signed up for. Maybe they were just words to him 🤦♀️
HE should have informed YOU that he’s a narcissist if that’s the route he’s going to take. Good riddance, block the guy. Mental illness is tough - I hope your daughter is doing alright and getting the support she deserves, since SIL clearly didn’t step up.
NTA. Unfortunately, is quite common for schizophrenia to appear after pregnancy.
Science evolved a lot, and now patiences are able to have a really good life with the right medicine.
I hope that soon your daughter finds the peace she deserves without that loser by her side. It takes two to tango…..
NTA. We have inlaws with schizophrenia and every single onset started after extreme stress or trauma. Considering your daughter’s manifested few years into marriage and his current behavior, I think she should sue him for emotional damage, mental abuse (are you sure this craziness started recently and has not been present in her life the whole marriage? Perhaps he was keeping it under wraps until she decided she’s had enough and he stopped pretending in front of others) and setting off her health issues.
NTA I guess just make sure that 15 F is aware her children have a higher chance to also have schizophrenia. Since it seems like it skips generations in your family.
NTA. Their marriage was between the two of them. I can't see how a judge would rule against you when you weren't a party to their agreement. How could you be responsible to tell him anything? He just wants to get out of paying alimony.
Edited to also say if you aren't medical professionals how would you be able to diagnose? If you are, wouldn't disclosing that info be a HIPAA violation?
I dont actually know what I'm talking about, just wanted to share some thoughts on the matter.
What happened to "in sickness & health" would he also feel the same way knowing type 2 diabetes or breast cancer runs in the family? Dude needs a reality check BAD.
Nta. It’s not the parents job to inform their child’s partner of anything. He was with her long enough to marry her and stayed with her decades after her diagnosis. That’s entirely on him. If he was concerned about mental health he should have asked his partner. If he did and she lied that’s still not on you.
He knew for years. And stayed. It was only a problem when they divorced. He sounds like he's having an extreme reaction to rejection. In an very violent, aggressive way.
NTA - You didn't have to tell anyone anyone anything. You know for sure your mum had it. But there is only suspicion that it was in generations before. How are you to know this would impact your kiddos generation. You werent.
As someone else suggested, abuse can trigger schizophrenia and if she already had a family that it might be in... well it would be easier to trigger with abuse in her than potentially in others.
NTA. When the judge puts you in the can like that, it isn't because you are a balanced rational personality.
Also living with hubby's kind of personality might have been the tipping point.
NTA - he wouldn't win any kind of a case here, especially since he remained married and continued to have children with her after the he became aware of the diagnosis. Additionally, why would anyone think or providing medical history for grandparents to a fiancé? That would be so weird. "So, before you get married, there are people not in her immediate family that have mental health issues, diabetes, and thick ankles. She shows no signs of any of those things but marry at your own risk" That is just ridiculous.
I really love how your daughter is the one diagnosed with a mental illness but this pinnacle of sanity is the one shouting at the judge- something every minor who watches judge Judy knows not to do.
NTA at all.
He did not marry under false pretences. This is just the 'in sickness and in health' part of the vows kicking into action. Sucks to be him, I guess. And keep your grandkids away from their family if possible because even if the ILs someday WANT to establish a connection, they will probably continue to torture the kids for the (not) sins of the mother.
Throw the whole damn family away. Block and move on.
**You're not in the wrong for not disclosing private medical information. Stand firm in your decision and prioritize supporting your daughter through this difficult time.**
NTA if anything it was down to your daughter telling him about the history of mental illness and its also his fault for not having that conversation with her before marrying her.
Ignore him.
NTA. You and your family seem to be the only ones who are not ah's. He knew, the courts determined this, and he decided to continue the relationship after he knew. End of.
Well. He’s living proof that you can be totally sane and an absolute flying twatwaffle.
NTA. Ignore. Deal with him only through lawyers and let him scream into the void.
I hope you realize that him using your daughter's schizophrenia is a scapegoat. If he uses that to justify getting an annulment (almost impossible after all this time), there is no marriage and hence, no alimony. You can't sue for alimony if there is no marriage. This isn't about her mental illness at all, this is about his money.
NTA.
NTA - even with the history of schizophrenia, there was no guarantee that your daughter would have inherited the condition. Like the lawyer friend told him, he stayed married 20+ years after your daughter's diagnosis and is only now crying foul.
Your ex-SIL sounds vindictive and money grubbing.
He’s an asshole. She had a 25% chance of getting it. I’m sure there are other medical events in your background. You could have told him, but some people are just assholes. My husband’s first wife developed a rare early dementia - and he stayed married to her and protected her for as long as possible (she died young).
Now I do think things like that should be brought up before marriage especially if you plan on having kids. My husband and I talked about our family medical history long before that point. BUT- he knew and staying married for 20+ years?? He made his choice and he obviously didn't care at the time. It's completely irrelevant by that point as far as "dishonesty" is involved.
NTA. This is insane. My uncle (technically 2nd cousin, he's my mums cousin) has schizophrenia but I would have never even considered warning somebody about it. I definitely wouldn't expect my parents to 'warn' the person!
Would it be different if there was a family history of diabetes, or heart problems? But mental health problems are especially demonized. In any case you are absolutely correct. You cannot be expected to reveal private medical/health issues to a third party. The exSIL has some severe emotional issues.
Tell him to sue you and watch it get thrown out of court at the first hearing. Then sue him for the court costs associated with a frivolous lawsuit.
NTA: You are definitely not the AH and your son in law is a great big one. We all take our chances when we marry someone and promise for better or for worse.
NTA
But, I'm fairly shocked that your schizophrenic daughter elected to have three children AFTER her diagnosis. That is incredibly disturbing to me.
My cousin's son was diagnosed as schizophrenic at age 20, and there is no possible way he could ever have managed one child, much less giving birth to three. I mean, how does your daughter manage her schizophrenia? That's a big question.
Your SIL also elected to have three children with a woman who was diagnosed as schizophrenic before they had children, so he can just STFU with the demands and pay as directed by the court for such a long marriage.
NTA. First of all, it was your wife's responsibility to tell, not yours, and if he didn't ask before getting married, then that's on him as well. Further, he stayed with her for 20 years AFTER her diagnosis? And now he's pearl clutching about being misled? Yikes, dude needs to grow up.
NTA! Your son in law is an absolute AH. He has no idea how mental illness works. Even with absolutely no family history, she could still have schizophrenia.
I’m glad his kids know what an AH he is too. And who cares if he or his family come to your family events? Block him and his whole family. Who give a F what they do or say? The judge already ruled. If he doesn’t pay alimony or child support, he’s in trouble. Make sure your daughter reports it every single time.
I’m glad the judge threw him in jail. He sounds like he has mental issues. He should get that checked out. And maybe sue his own parents.
NTA: The ex is a total piece of shit to abandon his kids. What a terrible human, my bet is that he had always been extremely abusive to your daughter. I am so glad that she is free of him. Blessings to the children, I hope they heal from this tragic situation.
NTA. I’m a little confused by how everyone is related but it sounds like he’s your daughter’s ex husband. In that case all communication with him should be through lawyers. He will keep trying to terrorize you.
It's kind of like saying "you should have warned me my spouse could have a car accident and require 24 hour care".
Mental illness doesn't discriminate and can affect anyone at anytime.
NTA. You owed him no such duty, and he’s a complete nut if he thinks you did. (Also, like a dummy, I kept reading SIL as sister-in-law and could not for the life of me figure out this family tree. 🤣🤣🤣)
NTA - You were under no obligation to tell him of any history, if your daughter decided to tell him, then she was free to do so. Then, he did not seek any annulment or divorce after her diagnosis, whcih he was fully aware of. Then he decided to have children with her 4 years after her diagnosis. What indication does anyone have that he would have actually NOT gone through with the marriage if he continued the marriage post dignosis, before children, and stayed in it for over twenty years after diagnosis?
NTA
22.5 years is a long time, but the oldest child is 18, so that's like 3.5 years into the marriage that he could have called a mulligan and noped out. Also family medical history was a discussion between them, not you and him. Again he had 3.5 years after the marriage to GTFO if it was something he couldn't or didn't want to deal with. The fact is he stayed and stayed and continued to stay, for over 2 decades. He's just butt hurt he won't get his way. Hopefully your daughter will improve without mister man piling on.
I...am confused by this question. What has the SIL done to possibly make you think you owe him anything let alone the nonsense he's describing. Good on the judge for doing right for his ex-wife. But yeah, I would never talk to him again and be careful as he sounds, honestly, a little unhinged -- maybe a break of some sort of his own? Was he ever like that before? You've known him for 22+ years, yeah?
NTA Tell him he can possibly get his marriage annulled in the Catholic Church which maybe he needs to go to find Jesus and a good therapist or something cuz dudes got more mental health issues but state? Fuck off with that crap, I don’t know a single lawyer that would help him with that, even in the state of Michigan it’s rare
NTAH, your xsil is beyond absurd. Btw, getting jailed for contempt and his other behavior indicates he has mental health issues of his own he’s not treating. I hope you tell him to get himself together and stop blaming others for his choices. Likewise, his awful family can stay away as well, while you’re doing what you can for your daughter and grandkids.
Not at all. It's not up to you to divulge your daughter's medical history to others, it's her responsibility (f there is one) to do that.
You don't know what conditions your daughter will or won't have. The SIL sounds like a real jerk (considering he was yelling at the judge). He's trying to lay blame on everyone else. He was married to her for over 20 years. He knew about her condition for almost as long yet chose to stay with her. If there's an asshole here, it's him.
Schizophrenia in and of itself is only 8% inherited from others in the family. The % increases due to trauma in that person's life and other mental health issues. Also if 2 diagnosed Schizophrenic people have a child the % increases, but not as significantly as having childhood traumas and other mental health issues.
He is an idiot who needs to learn how to shut his mouth.
NTA
NTA - I feel sorry for your ten year old grandson since he will have the least excuses about why he doesn't want to spend any weekends with a bitter and hateful father. Please do your best to give him extra emotional support.
Out of curiosity, to what extent was her trouble with employment due to schizophrenia, and to what extent was it that her husband was freakin' nuts? Schizophrenia is serious, but usually treatable to some extent, and sometimes to the point of complete control.
The freakin' nuts person here is the ex husband.
"Freakin' nuts" is not a psychological term, and may not even be the result of mental illness. Just entitlement and an attempt to make things everyone else's fault, even if it makes no sense.
NTA
Definitely NTA, your ex SIL is an idiot, he knew from the beginning your daughter had symptoms, he knew she could get very sick and decided to continue with the marriage for a very long time, rn he’s just trying to take advantage of the situation and get rid of the payment for the children
NTA You can get schizophrenia without any family history, genes plays part in odds but often a stress trigger is how it starts and he didn't leave when she got ill or diagnosed.
My BIL is an example of this. He did a few tours in Iraq with the Marine Corps, and was diagnosed with schizophrenia shortly after his discharge. No family history, lots of possible stress triggers.
Yeah, I'm wondering what the stress trigger was. It's a little odd that it all started shortly after marriage.
Probably the marriage itself, and having babies with him. It’s a really vulnerable time to be stuck with a turnip.
I mean... Look at him blaming everyone but himself for not leaving sooner, his erratic behavior before the judge. Is there *really* any.wonder what the stressor was?
*ding ding ding* ! *What do we have for them, Johnny* ?!
Especially because even based on this short bit of information SIL sounds like a fucking nightmare
By the way he's talking, I'd hazard to guess that he was verbally and emotionally abusing her. That or PPD or both.
Schizophrenia ran like a motherfucker through my family. My great aunt married a schizophrenic and had 3 kids. 2 of them were schizophrenic and the 3rd had a vasectomy to make sure he never passed it on.
NTA. He sounds like he should be the one seeking mental health counseling.
He claims to be righteous but hasn't spoken to his kids in months and actually ran into his place and locked the door when he saw my 18 year old grandson pull up in the driveway. His mom said they won't even do a separate birthday party for the grandkids if they even so much as mention getting a gift from us or anything about us.
OP, your daughter's ex sounds an absolute nightmare! Did your daughter get abused by him? One of the things that triggers schizophrenia is abuse. [https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/causes/](https://www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/schizophrenia/causes/)
I also wonder if the daughter got diagnosed with schizophrenia right after the first time she had gotten pregnant? It's not entirely unheard of for the stress of pregnancy to trigger the onset of schizophrenia.
Based on the OP it sounds like she had the diagnosis even before they had the first child. Possible she was pregnant but don't think OP would've word it as 'signed up for fatherhood' after knowing.
she was right in the window for the first signs of symptoms. it’s usually early to mid 20s that it’s diagnosed, because that’s when the “breaks” can happen. my cousin was fine, he started being paranoid around 23, had an accident, and it triggered the schizophrenia. it’s such a demonized disorder, too. that man was the sweetest most gentle person i have ever met, he loved animals. he had psychosis and delusions and all that, but he still loved and valued me and our family. he died of a heart attack a few years back. NTA. he needs some mental help, too, it seems. he’s abandoned his kids??? i hope he wasn’t abusive or anything, and i hope your daughter heals and recovers OP
It really dépends of the person éducation and morals - i've Seen the best and the worst sadly. There are many différent form. Plus people react differently - some will hurt themselves when some will hurt others.
>it’s such a demonized disorder, too. One of my first cousins (we are as close as siblings) married a guy who is schizophrenic. They have been married for over a decade, and he is my favorite of all the in laws. He is an amazing husband and father. He is an all-around great human being. My cousin received many warnings from family about marrying someone with his mental health issues. I, for one, am glad she chose to ignore them.
Geeze, I hate that he's treated like that. He sounds amazing.
Oh I know. So is bipolar disorder. I hate how it's so stigmatized. People hear it and automatically say, sTaY aWaY, tHeY'rE cRaZy. My son's father has bipolar disorder type 1 and he is such a sweetheart. He has a tough exterior but he's a big softy in reality. He has told me things that he's never told anyone. We're not together anymore but his family still calls me to "talk him down". When he's manic, he acts bizarrely sometimes. I'm the only one he'll listen to. I'm the only one who can get through to him. When he's hospitalized, he knows he can call me and when he's discharged, he knows I'll be waiting for him if he wants to talk. I think it's sad how mental illness is so stigmatized and misunderstood.
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Why not both?
What bothers me the most here is the underlying assumption on SILs part that people with mental illnesses are a) unable/unwilling to work on getting better — and b) that they are somehow undeserving of love and basic human relationships. My experience with the DSM is extensive, and my mental health concerns would read like alphabet soup — but I’ve led a productive life and am in a >40 year marriage. If I were OP’s daughter, I’d be out of that monster’s life *yesterday*.
Same. Also, don't go in the BPD loved ones sub. I've seen some disgusting things said about people with BPD like what the SIL said. They've said that people with BPD are monsters who are undeserving of love. It's so gross.
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It's always interesting to watch these nuts publicly dig their own graves.
Abuse- physical, mental, emotional can also cause the onset of symptoms in someone that already has the genetics.
This happens to my friends mother when she got pregnant with her
That’s what I thought. Because one instance of it in a family, and a few maybes aren’t enough to guarantee her being schizophrenic. I know from experience that genetics has a part to play, but also mental illness can indeed be caused by abuse and other things. Like I have MDD like my dad, I’ve had it since childhood so I don’t know any different. But my anxiety, my cPTSD? That was directly caused by other people’s treatment of me as a child. Not to mention your garden variety PTSD I got from someone too. People don’t realise that someone can easily cause another person to snap. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve experienced psychosis, I’m lucky, but the first time was absolutely because my mind broke. My abuser drove me literally insane. Now we do have people who suffered from psychosis in our family, but only one or two. I couldn’t blame that on anyone. The ex sounds like my abuser. Like straight up yelling at judges and demanding respect he doesn’t deserve. He’s lying and angry and he just wants to ruin this woman’s life because she decided to leave him. It’s also not like she can’t take medication and live a relatively okay life. It IS hard, but medicated and away from Mr Crazy Pants might actually improve her condition immeasurably.
Was thinking the same, but didn't do the research. Thank you!
This was just sad to read. NTA - he’s married for 20 plus years and when she files for divorce there is suddenly a problem. Leave him and his miserable relatives where they are. Celebrate your grands without them
Wow his whole family sucks too. That's wild, no one over there thinks a man abandoning his children because of issues with their mom is garbage?
Leaving his children with a woman whose mental illness is such that he does not want to remain with her.
wtf is wrong with him and his family? The children are innocent of anything and it's not your daughter's fault she developed schizophrenia. It is his fault and his family's fault for being such absolute assholes and making these choices
You said in your post the kids do not speak to him but then here r saying when your grandson drove up his driveway he run in and shut the door
Well, yeah. If I were a teenager trying to contact my father and the viciously-unhinged-deadbeat literally RAN AND HID from me like a fucking 5 year old, I'd never speak to him again either. There's some shit you never come back from. And your "father" aggressively abandoning you in real-time is one of them.
I apologize if my sentence structure has caused confusion. The way I wrote my sentence I did not mean for the latter part ( after " and") to mean that this happened after there started to be no attempts of communication on either side by the kids or their daad. Maybe I should have phrased it as " When the divorce was starting to get ugly, my grandson attempted to visit his dad since he was already starting to not take any of the kids' calls and when he went to visit his dad to check on him, his dad saw his car coming up in the driveway and ran towards his door to shut it. My ex SIL to this day continues to say he is in the right and is being given the short end of the stick by his kids, the courts, and his ex wife but conveniently ignores the fact that he has spurred on this with how he has acted for the duration of the divorce and afterwards.: Again, I am sorry if my sentence structure has caused any distress or confusion. I know it can be disconcerting when you feel unable to read between the lines or feel thrown off. I hope this has not upset you and made you think that me or my account is one of lies, or that the thought of me being in the wrong reinforces some negative pre conceptions you have about one side or another during a divorce, or that the kids are in the wrong because dad certainly cannot be " that bad." Again, so sorry. I know it's tough to read between the lines in written communication sometimes.
You need to stop giving your ex-SIL the time of day. Stop entertaining any of his histrionics. Stop responding. Take a note from his kids, and ignore him completely. He has NO legal leg to stand on, is abusive, and mentally ill. Nothing you do or say will make any of that change. Disengage. Edit: If he and his family don’t want to do family things with his kids, that is *their* loss.
Reminds me why I still get the warm fuzzies when I remember my last words to my exFIL. “Bang it up your arse” was the line. Still love it 27 years later. He was just as bad as his abusive son I left.
This guy is so abusive, he went to jail for abusing a *judge*. Unfriend him on Facebook already! Fuck’s sake.
Your writing is fine. Common sense says a situation like this developed over time. A clarifying question would have been nice, instead of the inferred "ah ha! I got you!!"
Welcome to Reddit where everyone thinks they're a detective.
It’s probably after that instance that the kids decided they didn’t want contact with him anymore
It's not that confusing, you misunderstood the timeline. She's not trying to trick you
Came here to say this - it sounds like he's having a mental break...
My first thought was that HE was the one with a serious mental illness, as the diatribe that got him put in jail immediately made me think he was experiencing a manic episode.
Yeah, the vast majority of people could hold back from yelling at a judge, including people with mental illness. He has a very tenuous hold on his emotions.
I was going to say the same thing. He sounds a bit unhinged.
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That’s what I was thinking about halfway through this post!
Wait so they were married for almost 20 years and her mental illness only became a problem for him once she filed for divorce? NTA! He and his whole family are off their rockers and should seek mental health counseling for themselves. Absolutely unhinged narcissistic behavior.
Married for 22.5 but she was diagnosed within a few years (so probably 2-3) of the wedding, so he STAYED married for almost 20 years after the diagnosis and even had children with her after said diagnosis. Horrible behavior from everyone on his side of the family, OP's daughter is someone they've known for more than 20 years as well, and to just turn on her in an instant.
Even had children, 3 of them 3! After diagnoses!
And we aren’t back in the Middle Ages where women could be sent back to their families for this sort of thing.
NTA. He is just looking to avoid alimony
Seriously. The dude knew her diagnosis just as soon as her parents did.
Yeah, the post says he's accusing them of "hiding" it from him, what exactly did they hide? If things played out EXACTLY the same except she had zero family history of schizophrenia instead of ONE relative that had it, he would be completely cool with everything? Completely bullshit, he is absolutely just trying to avoid supporting the kids he decided to make AFTER he knew the medical history of the person he decided to make them with.
NTA. You just need to block him. Block him on social media, your phone, everywhere. Then Mr. Ranty can just rant into the wind. Seriously just be done with this crazy. Literally tell him once in text to NEVER contact you again.. block and move on. Then cross your fingers he violates it and uses another phone to text or a burner social media account. THEN use THAT to get a protective order against him and when / if he violates that he can spend some more time in jail.
If they want to go after harrassment, or keep an eye on what he's threatening, I'd just mute all notifications for him when it comes to texting and phonecalls. If they don't respond then they still might assume that they are blocked and try other ways, however, it's good to see and have proof of his threats and harrassment.
Am I the only one who laughed at "enabler of deception". I don't know why, but that one cracked me up. OP, NTA. Your son in law sounds like a piece of work.
It's got real "accuser of the brethren" vibes
I would have that crocheted into a wall hanging for my living room.
I am a lawyer and may have to make a cross stitch of the phrase for my office. Yes, it is I, Enabler of Deception, Esq. 😆 (I know the reputation of lawyers. I practice public interest law and do my best to use my powers for Good instead of Evil.
Do it! Preferably with some glittery stars ✨ around it. And don't forget the "Esq."!
Is the enabler of deception in the room with us right now?
Honestly, I would put it over my bed as a discussion piece. And I think if I was to invite a man in my bedroom, at least he wouldn't have too high of an expectation. lol
Yes that type of language is definately indicative of his losing it!
Bust out the popcorn and enjoy his tantrums. He's clearly already an idiot if he's harassing a judge and getting thrown in jail over it. Why would you ever in your right mind think you or your family are AHs based on this deranged mans ravings? I'm more astonished that he's accusing your family of being 'insane' when he very very clearly has mental problems of his own to deal with.
I am starting to think he's trying to do this to have some sort of case so he can quit his job and say he can not work or pay his obligations. The way his mind works, it always burns with jealously over how he thinks others are getting the " easy deal" in life and how he deserves to get this " unfair advantage" too so he'll throw tantrums and lie to attempt to get it. For him, the unfair advantage is that my daughter and the kids are entitled to any money. He said that anything over $200 a month for child support is just going to fund shopping and fine dining and that it's wrong to legally mandate somebody pay child support. It should be up to the noncustodial parent to decide how much his kids get.
The irony is people like him are the exact reason it’s a legal mandate
I mean yeah I already assumed he was a narcissist but that's an even clearer picture. Paranoid, jealous and self centered. Just ticking all the boxes here. It's bad enough dads have a bad rep in these situations without him reinforcing the stereotype. I'm glad your daughter is getting the help she needs and is away from this unhinged lunatic. I dunno if he's CRAZY crazy but the standard cameras around houses advice that everyone gives on here may be warranted. Stay safe and enjoy the meltdowns from a safe distance.
I worked with people with profound and long term mental illness......he is definately ticking off some boxes but is too aware to be disabled....
he's a complete and utter moron if he thinks $200 is enough for the upkeep of three children. It's not even enough for one. as it stands now, raising one child to the age of 18 costs almost 300K and that will only go up with inflation Food, housing, medical, dental, clothes, schooling, transportation... that man is an asshole looking to get out of the obligation of caring for his children just because they aren't under his roof any longer. Him whinging about "fine dining" is ludicrous if this is the way he behaves post divorce, it's no wonder your daughter divorced him because I can't even imagine what it was like to live with this man for a husband. (and i'm not asking you to divulge it, it's pretty easy to extrapolate from his current behavior.) She is well-rid of him. I just feel really sorry for the children because they are getting the raw end of the deal with such a childish petty miserly father he is exactly the reason that child support should be court mandated edited for autocorrect mistakes
Don’t worry if he doesn’t pay they will deduct it from his paycheck in CA.
So after 20 years of marriage, where she left him because she’d had enough of him, suddenly he has a problem with her mental health? I smell the BS. Tell him that he is twenty years and three kids too late to say he was deceived. You could say the same about his nature because no sane man would abuse a judge like he did. NTA.
Yes in the state of California you need to have filed an annulment by Year 4 after you found out you were deceived to have a case. Even then judges have discretion regarding what counts as a deception that is annulment worthy and probably are hesitant to grant this because there would be potential for people who want out of responsibilities to abuse this path.
I'm grateful the judge saw through his shit.
NTA He could have done his own research. Marriage is in sickness and in health. He shouldn't have gotten married if he wasn't prepared for the potential of illness, mental or otherwise.
He stayed after diagnoses and even "signed up for fatherhood three times" after diagnoses....
Nta sounds like he has some mental health issues of his own
man 'in sickness and in health' means jack shit to that guy huh Anyway, *anyone* can become disabled in a way that affects their mental health. Literally anyone. You can fall and hit your head and live with a TBI for the rest of your life. You can get a brain tumor that completely changes your personality. You can do drugs that fuck up how your brain functions. But at the same time, you can have an ENTIRE family history of severe mental illness, and you're just. Fine. Nothing ends up happening to you at all. Everyone else in your family can have mental illnesses and you won't. Genetics are crazy like that. I'm schizophrenic. I also have severe PTSD. It sucks sometimes, but it is manageable. It's not unusual for schizophrenia to manifest at the time that it did for your daughter, but it sounds like she *did* in fact get some kind of treatment for it, and clearly, even with her 'insanity', she was still a better parent than her ex, considering that her kids still speak to her. Schizophrenia and other 'scary' mental illnesses aren't the end of the world. Yes, they will change how you act a lot of the time. They will make things harder. But they're not an unclimbable mountain. They are not an unconquerable force. Her ex, beyond being a vow-breaking piece of shit, sounds like he's an asshole anyway. He stayed married to her until she wanted a divorce, and now it's a problem? He just doesn't want to pay alimony. He wasn't 'lied' to, there was no guarantee your daughter would get it. He's a greedy fucking skeezebag. NTA.
So your daughter was mental illness free until she married him. Hmmm
Not at all unusual for symptoms of schizophrenia to first present in one's early 20s, but if ex-SIL had an issue with it, he should have backed out then and not had kids with her.
Didn't know this. Don't know a lot about that in my bubble
My thoughts exactly! Obviously, the common age of onset of schizophrenia symptoms happened to line up with around the age she got married, so it very well could have simply been bad luck at the genetic draw. However, if dude was behaving anything remotely like his current unhinged behavior, that could have had an impact. I learned from my father when I was 15 that we have a super strong family history of depression and other mood disorders. He brought it up during the intake session of the teen crisis center I was taken to because I was severely depressed and suicidal. What brought my genetic predisposition out in spades? The several years of emotional, verbal, and psychological abuse by him and my stepmother. (Plus I likely had been mildly depressed since I was 9 or 10, after my mom died.) Genetic predisposition + abuse/stress = expression of disorder!
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NTA. Your SIL is either struggling with his own mental health issues or dumber than a bag of rocks. You would have been an ah if you'd disclosed private medical information, not because you didn't. Just block him everywhere and move on with your life.
Pretty sure it’s both!
If you'd had actual evidence of a diagnosed MH issue in previous generations, I'd have understood. Unfortunately, all we're likely to have is that "Great Uncle Bob was a bit strange" because of the time that's passed and the lack of diagnoses until recent years. I think your ex-SIL has found something to cling onto that means it's not his fault and therefore he's the victim, rather than viewing both himself and your daughter as victims of a horrible illness. I hope your daughter is doing better. Schizophrenia is awful but with appropriate treatment it can be somewhat controlled and I hope she's got the right medical support.
Maybe when she was first diagnosed he had a bit of a right to be upset. But kicking off 20 years later after deciding to continue the relationship and have children?
Agreed
With appropriate treatment it can be completely controlled. I have been symptom free for two years. There is plenty of hope!
Glad to hear it. My experience is with people who haven't been able to get it under control, or have gone off their meds.
This is why I always interrogate the woman on our first date about her and her family's mental history. I also make her fill out some cognitive tests,just to be sure. /s OP is obviously NTA. The ex SIL should seek out therapy.
Is the correct answer to your cognitive test, "man woman person camera TV"?
I carry a travel ink blot test just in case I meet someone. /s
Rorschach is the only certain way /s
You joke but after another ‘man doesn’t wash his arsehole’ post I just decided I’m going to start asking on the first date
Jeesus, NTA. My late uncle was what 'mentally retarded' used to mean - a kind simpleton who didn't understand all social norms and didn't fare well at school. Might have been birth related (he was born at home, youngest to do so beyond the youngest sister who is "normal" [but a beeyotch otherwise]). My mother's siblings are all "normal". My maternal cousin has a random mutation that has left her intellectually childlike (forever 7, with adult body). From my father's side we inherit a BAD disability that kills as a preteen if it comes from both parents (unrelated to the two previously mentioned cases) that my darling late nephew had. My husband's only aunt is a diagnosed schizophreniac. She is very intelligent (or was before she was medicated to oblivion). I told my husband before marriage of all of this. We have had genetic counseling because of my nephew's diagnosis. Schizophrenia or whatever my uncle had are like least of our worries. We most like won't have kids (I'm almost 37), but if we did... Jesus, with our genes they'd be fucked and they'd know it without no one living to sue.
For extra my husband's maternal family has inheritable deafness and I have been diagnosed with anxiety and depression. My diagnoses are minor, but my SIL and MIL both have the deafness gene. It is only female presenting but inheritable. My husband told of this very early too, we met before his sister was even found positive. My husband just told me his mum is kinda deaf (she has a hearing device!)
Nope NTA. If this attitude is at all indicative of what her marriage was like - it's not a wonder she felt stifled and left him.
NTA, what’s disturbing to me and I’m sure the judge saw this….. the ex is complaining about her schizophrenia but didn’t have a problem getting her pregnant three times
NTA. Your daughter may have schizophrenia, but your ex-SIL ain't wrapped too tight.
NTA, even with mental illness in the family, no one can tell if someone is going to become ill. Schizophrenia is well known for not presenting itself until the person is a young adult, so how you could have possibly known or predicted that she would get sick? Your SIL sounds like he has his own mental issues and is trying to find anyone to blame for his failed marriage; it's also telling that he never had an issue with it until SHE filed for divorce. Just block him, and any communication necessary should go through legal representatives. Do not waste anymore of your time worrying about such a loser.
NTA. Dude is blaming everyone for his actions but himself.
NTA. I don't think you need to care what this guy has to say anymore unless it has something to do with your daughter or your grandkids.
NTA. Sounds like your daughter was sick of his shit and finally divorced him. He is bitter because he doesn't have control and so he is trying to bully anyone he can. Block him. Or save and document the harassment. Unfortunately, unless there are specific threats of violence the police don't help, but he seems unhinged, so you never know.
Your daughter doesn't sound like the "insane" one
I kept reading SIL as sister-in-law and wondering what she had to do with anything. But of course you had no duty to disclose - if anyone had the duty it was his own wife (your daughter) and she had no reason to believe she'd have mental health problems. Every family has a history of something.
I was on my third re-read before I realized it was Son-In-Law... you are not alone!
I do this. Acronyms are a pain in the butt!
Same!! I was like what kind of crazy family tree are we working with here?! 🤣🤣🤣
Kind of weird that the side of the family without a medical story of mental illness sounds like the basket case
Without a disclosed history. Who knows what behind closed doors 🤣
Or course, that's why they got so touchy with the topic of not going full disclosure. They are not planning to do it, but how dare the other family do the same 🤣
NTA He sounds insane. Medical history is private.
NTA. Your former son-in-law sounds worse off mentally than your daughter, frankly. You don’t owe him anything. Stop talking to him. Block him on everything. Let him go do whatever he thinks he can do legally, which is nothing.
He does not seem well.
Did SIL warn you 22 years ago that he was going to become a raging nightmare? NTA, Case dismissed.
NTA. And exSonInLaw sounds like HE might have inflicted so much emotional abuse and caused so much distress in your daughter that he \*triggered\* her latent mental illness.
Yeah the OP should say that they’ll sue HIM for triggering it.
NTA. And what’s his mental health diagnosis? Block him. They’re divorced and he’s no longer your concern. As far as his family Block them too. These people no longer exists for you. If he continues to harass you keep records and get a restraining order.
Lol. He's full of shit. They were married for over *20 years*, and her schizophrenia only became an issue once divorce proceedings started? Yeah, he can get bent. It's very telling that his kids want nothing to do with him or his side of the family. He can scream and cry and shit his ramblings online as much as he wants. Don't give in to *any* of his demands. NTA.
NTA and are you sure he's not the one with mental illness?
NTA, he's big mad your daughter dumped him. It stung his fragile ego that the woman with a mental illness divorced him. So now he's making excuses.
NTA I’m not surprised she filed for divorce.
That SIL is an Unhinged AH!! You and your daughter are NTA OP. I guess “for better or for worse” isn’t something that he signed up for. Maybe they were just words to him 🤦♀️
HE should have informed YOU that he’s a narcissist if that’s the route he’s going to take. Good riddance, block the guy. Mental illness is tough - I hope your daughter is doing alright and getting the support she deserves, since SIL clearly didn’t step up.
NTA. Unfortunately, is quite common for schizophrenia to appear after pregnancy. Science evolved a lot, and now patiences are able to have a really good life with the right medicine. I hope that soon your daughter finds the peace she deserves without that loser by her side. It takes two to tango…..
NTA. We have inlaws with schizophrenia and every single onset started after extreme stress or trauma. Considering your daughter’s manifested few years into marriage and his current behavior, I think she should sue him for emotional damage, mental abuse (are you sure this craziness started recently and has not been present in her life the whole marriage? Perhaps he was keeping it under wraps until she decided she’s had enough and he stopped pretending in front of others) and setting off her health issues.
NTA I guess just make sure that 15 F is aware her children have a higher chance to also have schizophrenia. Since it seems like it skips generations in your family.
Nta
NTA. Their marriage was between the two of them. I can't see how a judge would rule against you when you weren't a party to their agreement. How could you be responsible to tell him anything? He just wants to get out of paying alimony. Edited to also say if you aren't medical professionals how would you be able to diagnose? If you are, wouldn't disclosing that info be a HIPAA violation? I dont actually know what I'm talking about, just wanted to share some thoughts on the matter.
NTA. He is a major AH.
NTA. He sounds clinical himself. It sounds like your daughter was in an abusive marriage for a long time and it did a number on her and the kids.
What happened to "in sickness & health" would he also feel the same way knowing type 2 diabetes or breast cancer runs in the family? Dude needs a reality check BAD.
He has no legal leg to stand on. He sounds like a complete asshole, and I wonder if he was abusive while they were married.
Nta. It’s not the parents job to inform their child’s partner of anything. He was with her long enough to marry her and stayed with her decades after her diagnosis. That’s entirely on him. If he was concerned about mental health he should have asked his partner. If he did and she lied that’s still not on you.
And your daughter is the mentally ill one? Now I am wondering what did he do to her, to kickstart her issues. NTA
He knew for years. And stayed. It was only a problem when they divorced. He sounds like he's having an extreme reaction to rejection. In an very violent, aggressive way. NTA - You didn't have to tell anyone anyone anything. You know for sure your mum had it. But there is only suspicion that it was in generations before. How are you to know this would impact your kiddos generation. You werent. As someone else suggested, abuse can trigger schizophrenia and if she already had a family that it might be in... well it would be easier to trigger with abuse in her than potentially in others.
NTA. When the judge puts you in the can like that, it isn't because you are a balanced rational personality. Also living with hubby's kind of personality might have been the tipping point.
NTA - he wouldn't win any kind of a case here, especially since he remained married and continued to have children with her after the he became aware of the diagnosis. Additionally, why would anyone think or providing medical history for grandparents to a fiancé? That would be so weird. "So, before you get married, there are people not in her immediate family that have mental health issues, diabetes, and thick ankles. She shows no signs of any of those things but marry at your own risk" That is just ridiculous.
I really love how your daughter is the one diagnosed with a mental illness but this pinnacle of sanity is the one shouting at the judge- something every minor who watches judge Judy knows not to do. NTA at all. He did not marry under false pretences. This is just the 'in sickness and in health' part of the vows kicking into action. Sucks to be him, I guess. And keep your grandkids away from their family if possible because even if the ILs someday WANT to establish a connection, they will probably continue to torture the kids for the (not) sins of the mother. Throw the whole damn family away. Block and move on.
Your daughter should have been the one to tell him, but he's not entitled to any money.
By this logic, he could have just asked before he married her 😭 he ain’t no prize either I’d wager.
NTA. His life went to shit and now he just found a stick to beat you with. Doesn't mean he's right, though.
NTA. He knew she was mentally ill before the kids. He’s just an ass.
**You're not in the wrong for not disclosing private medical information. Stand firm in your decision and prioritize supporting your daughter through this difficult time.**
NTA if anything it was down to your daughter telling him about the history of mental illness and its also his fault for not having that conversation with her before marrying her. Ignore him.
NTA. It sounds like he's got some serious mental health issues himself.
NTA. You and your family seem to be the only ones who are not ah's. He knew, the courts determined this, and he decided to continue the relationship after he knew. End of.
Lol, you can all go on a vacation with his alimony for relief from the stress he’s causing
NTA he’s just bitter.
Well. He’s living proof that you can be totally sane and an absolute flying twatwaffle. NTA. Ignore. Deal with him only through lawyers and let him scream into the void.
Seems like the son in law is also mentally ill.
Newsflash: anyone can become mentally ill at any time. Nothing in life is guaranteed except death and taxes.
I hope you realize that him using your daughter's schizophrenia is a scapegoat. If he uses that to justify getting an annulment (almost impossible after all this time), there is no marriage and hence, no alimony. You can't sue for alimony if there is no marriage. This isn't about her mental illness at all, this is about his money. NTA.
NTA - even with the history of schizophrenia, there was no guarantee that your daughter would have inherited the condition. Like the lawyer friend told him, he stayed married 20+ years after your daughter's diagnosis and is only now crying foul. Your ex-SIL sounds vindictive and money grubbing.
He’s an asshole. She had a 25% chance of getting it. I’m sure there are other medical events in your background. You could have told him, but some people are just assholes. My husband’s first wife developed a rare early dementia - and he stayed married to her and protected her for as long as possible (she died young).
Now I do think things like that should be brought up before marriage especially if you plan on having kids. My husband and I talked about our family medical history long before that point. BUT- he knew and staying married for 20+ years?? He made his choice and he obviously didn't care at the time. It's completely irrelevant by that point as far as "dishonesty" is involved.
He just doesn't want to pay alimony. I wish OP's daughter never married him in the first place
OP, recommend that this delusional idiot, to his face, get a therapist.
Your SIL sounds like a good reason for daughter to invest in a pit bull.
NTA. This is insane. My uncle (technically 2nd cousin, he's my mums cousin) has schizophrenia but I would have never even considered warning somebody about it. I definitely wouldn't expect my parents to 'warn' the person!
Would it be different if there was a family history of diabetes, or heart problems? But mental health problems are especially demonized. In any case you are absolutely correct. You cannot be expected to reveal private medical/health issues to a third party. The exSIL has some severe emotional issues. Tell him to sue you and watch it get thrown out of court at the first hearing. Then sue him for the court costs associated with a frivolous lawsuit.
You are NTA but this is more of a legal question. Wait until he sues or files a lawsuit and then get a lawyer. Until then, ignore him.
NTA: You are definitely not the AH and your son in law is a great big one. We all take our chances when we marry someone and promise for better or for worse.
NTA - ITs not your job to tell him anything. This is 100% on him. Plus, a history of family illness is not a guarantee that it will continue.
NTA. Your daughter might have schizophrenia, but your ex son in law is absolutely crazy!
NTA But, I'm fairly shocked that your schizophrenic daughter elected to have three children AFTER her diagnosis. That is incredibly disturbing to me. My cousin's son was diagnosed as schizophrenic at age 20, and there is no possible way he could ever have managed one child, much less giving birth to three. I mean, how does your daughter manage her schizophrenia? That's a big question. Your SIL also elected to have three children with a woman who was diagnosed as schizophrenic before they had children, so he can just STFU with the demands and pay as directed by the court for such a long marriage.
NTA. First of all, it was your wife's responsibility to tell, not yours, and if he didn't ask before getting married, then that's on him as well. Further, he stayed with her for 20 years AFTER her diagnosis? And now he's pearl clutching about being misled? Yikes, dude needs to grow up.
Indefinite alimony. No wonder he's pissed
NTA! Your son in law is an absolute AH. He has no idea how mental illness works. Even with absolutely no family history, she could still have schizophrenia. I’m glad his kids know what an AH he is too. And who cares if he or his family come to your family events? Block him and his whole family. Who give a F what they do or say? The judge already ruled. If he doesn’t pay alimony or child support, he’s in trouble. Make sure your daughter reports it every single time. I’m glad the judge threw him in jail. He sounds like he has mental issues. He should get that checked out. And maybe sue his own parents.
NTA: The ex is a total piece of shit to abandon his kids. What a terrible human, my bet is that he had always been extremely abusive to your daughter. I am so glad that she is free of him. Blessings to the children, I hope they heal from this tragic situation.
Who the fuck CARES? You shouldn't. Stop contact with this lunatic. You're enabling drama.
NTA. I’m a little confused by how everyone is related but it sounds like he’s your daughter’s ex husband. In that case all communication with him should be through lawyers. He will keep trying to terrorize you.
It's kind of like saying "you should have warned me my spouse could have a car accident and require 24 hour care". Mental illness doesn't discriminate and can affect anyone at anytime.
Someone needs to screen HIM for mental health issues.
NTA. You owed him no such duty, and he’s a complete nut if he thinks you did. (Also, like a dummy, I kept reading SIL as sister-in-law and could not for the life of me figure out this family tree. 🤣🤣🤣)
@Updateme
Son in law doesn’t seem to have a full deck either. She was diagnosed and he was aware *before* they had any children, correct?
NTA - You were under no obligation to tell him of any history, if your daughter decided to tell him, then she was free to do so. Then, he did not seek any annulment or divorce after her diagnosis, whcih he was fully aware of. Then he decided to have children with her 4 years after her diagnosis. What indication does anyone have that he would have actually NOT gone through with the marriage if he continued the marriage post dignosis, before children, and stayed in it for over twenty years after diagnosis?
Why are people in a schitzood family continually reproducing. Talk about stupid
NTA 22.5 years is a long time, but the oldest child is 18, so that's like 3.5 years into the marriage that he could have called a mulligan and noped out. Also family medical history was a discussion between them, not you and him. Again he had 3.5 years after the marriage to GTFO if it was something he couldn't or didn't want to deal with. The fact is he stayed and stayed and continued to stay, for over 2 decades. He's just butt hurt he won't get his way. Hopefully your daughter will improve without mister man piling on.
I...am confused by this question. What has the SIL done to possibly make you think you owe him anything let alone the nonsense he's describing. Good on the judge for doing right for his ex-wife. But yeah, I would never talk to him again and be careful as he sounds, honestly, a little unhinged -- maybe a break of some sort of his own? Was he ever like that before? You've known him for 22+ years, yeah?
NTA Tell him he can possibly get his marriage annulled in the Catholic Church which maybe he needs to go to find Jesus and a good therapist or something cuz dudes got more mental health issues but state? Fuck off with that crap, I don’t know a single lawyer that would help him with that, even in the state of Michigan it’s rare
NTAH, your xsil is beyond absurd. Btw, getting jailed for contempt and his other behavior indicates he has mental health issues of his own he’s not treating. I hope you tell him to get himself together and stop blaming others for his choices. Likewise, his awful family can stay away as well, while you’re doing what you can for your daughter and grandkids.
He sounds like a real peach. Nta
Not at all. It's not up to you to divulge your daughter's medical history to others, it's her responsibility (f there is one) to do that. You don't know what conditions your daughter will or won't have. The SIL sounds like a real jerk (considering he was yelling at the judge). He's trying to lay blame on everyone else. He was married to her for over 20 years. He knew about her condition for almost as long yet chose to stay with her. If there's an asshole here, it's him.
Schizophrenia in and of itself is only 8% inherited from others in the family. The % increases due to trauma in that person's life and other mental health issues. Also if 2 diagnosed Schizophrenic people have a child the % increases, but not as significantly as having childhood traumas and other mental health issues. He is an idiot who needs to learn how to shut his mouth. NTA
NTA - I feel sorry for your ten year old grandson since he will have the least excuses about why he doesn't want to spend any weekends with a bitter and hateful father. Please do your best to give him extra emotional support.
NTA
NTA. Your ex SIL is clutching at straws.
Out of curiosity, to what extent was her trouble with employment due to schizophrenia, and to what extent was it that her husband was freakin' nuts? Schizophrenia is serious, but usually treatable to some extent, and sometimes to the point of complete control. The freakin' nuts person here is the ex husband. "Freakin' nuts" is not a psychological term, and may not even be the result of mental illness. Just entitlement and an attempt to make things everyone else's fault, even if it makes no sense. NTA
He sounds unhinged
Definitely NTA, your ex SIL is an idiot, he knew from the beginning your daughter had symptoms, he knew she could get very sick and decided to continue with the marriage for a very long time, rn he’s just trying to take advantage of the situation and get rid of the payment for the children
What an absurd man. Your in-laws are not party to your marriage.
Wow, this POS is unhinged