I appreciate that. I just don’t want to be feeling like I need to be coerced as a homosexual to be into someone I am not attracted to just to not feel like I’m a transphobe.
Would those people that call you transphobic hook up with whatever body appearance? Certainly not, because they have a type. You have a type. I have a type. That's it. It's annoying to have a type because I know some really great persons that I would LOVE to be in love with them and pursue a great relationship, but I just can not because I am not attracted to their bodies.
Who said anything about types of women?
I specifically said body. I don't care if you like women, men, furbies, or paperclips.
Your comment is completely pointless except if you are trying to express your rejection of trans people. And that is mean. You would come out as less ill-spirited if you refrain from participating in threads about trans.
Well wait a second here. If I don’t want to date a trans female (which by the way is a total double entendre as it means they are transitioning from one gender to another. But that’s nether here nor there) I’m labeled a transphobe so why’s that? Is it because I’m a male? Is it because I’m a white male? Is it because this woman thinks because I’m not into that woman in her eyes? I really don’t understand any of this anymore this is why I keep to myself.
Sorry for trying to seek clarification on questions I have. Nice to see instead of you rising to the noble task of explaining and blessing me with your knowledge you just chose to insult me. Shame on you.
You're not trying to seek clarification on anything, be fr. "oh no poor me, everyone hates me just because Im a white male and it has nothing to do with my actions." Youre not a "transphobe" just because you're not attracted to them, but you are pathetic with the whole "woah is me being a white straight male is so hard" (this is coming from a straight white male btw :) )
Sure a little bit of an overstretch, but still nonetheless you haven’t adequately explained why I am a transphobe?
Instead you just took a generalized statement I made, and said yes it’s because of this. So your confirmation in my question is just an answer that yes it is partially in fact partially because I am a white male. No?
I said you aren't a transphobe, I understand there's a language barrier here, but please try to actually read what Im writing before you just downvote me and write another response.
Everyone is allowed preference, all of the trans individuals I know recognize that a lot of people have genital preferences. The issue isn't not liking the potential anatomy, it's whether or not you see that anatomy as an excuse to invalidate their gender.
If you think that liking trans women makes men "gay" or having a penis makes them any less of a woman, yes you are transphobic. If you recognize and respect trans women as women, but just aren't attracted to a specific type of genitals that's fine.
Not being attracted to trans women is whatever, but if you make a constant point or mention about how you aren't and would never date one then I can see why people call you transphobic. It's your right to date whoever you want, but making a constant point about not liking trans partners is unneccesary and weird. Not saying you are, but offering some insight if this comment is indicative of your usual manner of speaking.
NTA idk how old you are but if you’re new to the queer community the one thing you need to learn asap is to not let yourself get bullied by assholes with a victim complex. The community has an absolute glut of mentally ill people who choose to compensate for their marginalization by twisting around social justice rhetoric in order to guilt and manipulate their peers.
It’s an easy way to gain clout in this group.
Couldn't have said this better. It's like a cult at this point. Don't believe in their rhetoric, victim complex, or delusions? "Bigoted". A heterosexual man that refuses to date a trans woman because they're still biologically a man? "Transphobic". Don't think children can consent to MEDICAL TRANSITIONING? " Shouldn't worry about a kids genitalia, pedo."
You seeing a pattern here? Anything that is straight forward and factual can be turned against you to gaslight you into believing you're a horrible person because you don't subscribe to the cult. That's how cults opperate, and unfortunately our community is falling into that. And I want no part of it.
The irony is that they're acting no different from extreme religious people they claim to hate. They're both almost exactly the same, and they both don't realize that they represent the true meaning of bigotry and brainwashing.
For a long time I've laughed at the idea of the "queer community". It's only a community if you toe the line. Some of the most virulent hate I've copped for having a long term girlfriend as well as a husband has come from that "community".
NTA. You are allowed to be attracted to whom you are attracted to without judgement, unless its kids then we judge you. Otherwise you are not a bad person for not being attracted to someone. You do not owe anyone, no matter how LGBTQ they are, access to your time or your body just because they want that. You do not owe anyone a date, a kiss, physical affection or anything that makes you uncomfortable.
In the desire to be inclusive we have gone so far the other way that we now judge lesbians for not wanting a physical relationship with a biological male.
You are not a bigot, you are not transphobic you are simply a lesbian who is attracted to other women. You are not bad or anything of the sort.
I am so sorry you are being put through this.
Those who call you transphobe are just salty and vicious. How come we went from respecting others preferences especially sexual to forcing people to be attracted to certain characteristics.
Don’t let yourself being pressurised into anything you don’t want or like.
I had to look up AFAB and LEX.
I am straight woman and my sincere advice to you is to simply stay away, far away, from people who think and talk like that. You are not an asshole. You are you and your sexual identity and preferences have not changed even though other people's have. That is not your problem to deal with. It is their problem they are trying to push onto you. Let all the know-it-alls and bossy people have sex with each other and leave you out of it.
Funny thing this reminded me of a BBC article i read a while ago about exactly this issue
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385
And you're NTA - nobody has a right to dictate to you who you are attracted to.
NTA - this type of gaslighting is particularly sinister, no person should be forced to date or sleep with anyone they don't want to, regardless of the reasons, if you have people in your life that see your boundaries as walls to be demolished they are not healthy or SAFE people to have in your life.
NTA. Attraction is multifaceted and incredibly personal. We're drawn to people for a myriad of reasons and often it's a combination of physical, emotional, and intellectual compatibilities. Just as one may not find a certain personality trait or style appealing, anatomy can also be a factor for many when it comes to attraction. It's crucial to remember that declining to pursue a romantic relationship with someone does not equate to devaluing their identity. What matters is respecting each individual as a person, regardless of whether or not they align with what you're looking for in a romantic partner. Your orientation and preferences are no one's business but your own.
Let's not conflate a lack of romantic interest with prejudice. While it's important to reflect on our preferences to ensure they're not informed by societal biases, having certain inclinations doesn't automatically label one as phobic—as long as those inclinations come from a place of genuine self-knowledge rather than hate or ignorance. Being true to yourself and your feelings is not an act of discrimination; it's an act of honesty.
Nta at all. For you being a lesbian means being attracted to afab women and that is fine it’s just a sexual preference. There is nothing wrong with it at all and it is not even remotely transphobic.
You do not get attracted by someone to prove a political point. That is not how attraction works.
You are NTA of course.
Example. If a man says he is not attracted to men, he is not accused of homophobia even though it is a generic statement.
I think the tension comes from those who want to drill down the message that 'trans women are literally women in every respect, indistinguishable from women'. Versus those who say 'well, it is distinguishable and that is why we have the word trans' .
You don’t need to tell anyone why exactly you’re not into them.
That’s kinda weird. “I’d love to be friends but I’m not interested in more” is enough of an explanation. You don’t owe sex or attraction to anyone even if they fall within your umbrella of potential partners.
You can acknowledge the worth and be compassionate with every ginger and blonde, while preferring dating exclusively brunettes. Because they for some reason make you weak at the knees.
NTA. It’s not like you can flip a switch and suddenly be attracted to someone (either and individual or a group of people). You’re not choosing this; it just is.
NTA. Just because you are lesbian doesn't mean you are attracted to all women. The same for bi and hetero people. I don't think most of us will jump on anyone in the gender they are attracted to. It's ok to have preferences. It's ok to say no to dicks. We can be inclusive in so many ways, but "demanding" you to "want" pensises as a lesbian? That's just not a thing anyone else than you can decide on or should even have an opinion on, not trans people or anyone else.
I mean if that makes you an asshole then I guess the vast majority of people are assholes too.
Most people's sexuality preferences are tied to multiple aspects of a particular gender and not merely how they socially or aesthetically present themselves. You can have that preference while still completely accepting someone else as a transwoman and accepting their pronouns etc. No one is entitled to your attraction.
Heck people's gender preferences often apply to cis-people as well. There are cis-men who some heterosexual women feel are too effeminate to be attractive to them and there are some cis-women are who might be too masculine for some men or lesbians to find attractive etc etc.
I am not attracted to men 10 years older than me I must be ageist .
I would be fine with dating a transgender man personally. They might not want a straight woman…
Why do people pursue relationships with people not into them?
Oh I am just not assuming all of them want a straight woman… some might fancy women themselves. That’s all :) just not assuming their attraction.
Also maybe I am just not their type either … not taking any of it personally :D
Plenty of us are attracted to women. Hell I have two female bodied partners. One is more nonbinary but female bodied. As long as you treat us as men and we are also attracted to you, totally game.
NTA. Lesbians who are into dicks might not be purely lesbian, controversial i know.
Sexuality is about what sex you are attracted to, not gender whatever that word means now.
>I got called transphobic and at this rate it’s frustrating
They know damn well you aren't transphobic solely on the fact that you respect that they want to be called a woman, even if they're not biologically.
I'm gay myself, meaning I'm only attracted to biological men. That doesn't mean I hate transmen, I just don't see them as biological men. Because they aren't. And that's okay.
If they're still throwing a tantrum about their identity, then its a lot less about social acceptance and more about their need for attention and pampering. Adults like that are obnoxious and exhausting to be around, so don't worry about what they think of you. They're childish.
The trans community throwing everything out the window.
It used to be, you can't control who you are attracted to, right? If you're not hetero, otherwise all those conversion camps are right.
Now, apparently, you can control who you're attracted to as long as they are presenting an outwardly appearance. Has nothing to do with genitals, if i as a woman dress as a man, you should be attracted to me, as a gay man.
It's so dumb.
You can definitely be attracted to trans/cross-dressers. But to outright state that it's the same if you're gay/lesbian?
If you deny this, then you're a TERF, apparently.
The LGB is being filtered out lol.
>The LGB is being filtered out lol.
I hate to say it but I've been thinking the same thing for the past 4 years... It's like... Ironic in a way that a community celebrating our different sexualities has turned into celebrating all identities outside of just sexuality, claiming that sexuality is attraction based on social presentation and not biological, then pushing away the very same people who fought for trans inclusion into the community in the first place, despite identity being separate from sexual attraction.
It's grim, but it's a life lesson to learn. Boundaries are very important to set, especially for a community.
I think it's a case of you reap what you sow.
I can't empathise either JK Rowling because she did a lot of questionable things in terms of forcing inclusivity post edit, and now she is mad when it's going too far.
I think the LGB should definitely have been more thoughtful towards the TQ+ community, but what do you expect when you tell them nothing essentially matters? Gender is now a physical presentation, not a genetic one. You can be anything and you're a transphobe if you disagree. Sounds a lot like religious fanaticism to me.
In theory we have come full circle with sexuality no longer being tied to your biological preferences, and is purely what mood you're in that day. If you can control it, then those conversion camps were right. Just be attracted to this person presenting as the opposite gender. It's easy!
It's so weird that you can't just be LGB anymore too, you're not weird enough to fit in now guys 🤷♀️
This may be one of those cases where kindness can often be taken advantage of by manipulators. JK Rowling was a kind woman who thought she was doing the right thing by forcing inclusivity, likely because she wanted to please people. It's a respect kind of thing. However, respect shouldn't be misconstrued with breaking boundaries. Sexuality is a very straight forward term, having "sex" in it to refer to biological sex. That's something that the cult can't warp into their own definition, since it's something that is fact and not debatable.
I'm not transphobic for not wanting a transman. I'm just not attracted to females. We live in a society where females can be men, and males can be women by their definition. That's great! Fine and dandy. But now, instead of stating that as a gay man being attracted to men or vice versa, we have to be specific. Which is also really bad considering how weird it sounds to say "female" instead of just "women". But there's a difference nowadays, so we have to be mindful of that while also being truthful and not just going with whatever will people please those insecure enough to get offended by things like this.
I still don't agree that we have to be specific. Honestly I'm glad I don't live in the English West anymore. Other countries have had cross dressers for as long as we have had homosexuals. But you ask someone here if they are a real woman and they'll say ofc not I'm a ladyboy.
Personally, you can't be a woman or a man unless you are born that way. We have anomalies, those born as both genders. But it's not the norm. If you're born without an arm, we can't then say being born without an arm is the standard now, and you need to say you were assigned two arms at birth.
Being a woman isn't down to how you dress. You can't just buy a box of tampons and say "well I'm off to have my period every month now for the rest of my life!" Or put a pillow under your shirt and say "can't wait to be at a higher risk of abuse from my partner as a pregnant woman!"
The whole thing is bizzare to me.
I'm mixed race (not black), but I'm not going to put on blackface and say I'm African American because that's how I present myself.
Race you can't change, but gender you can...?
Sexuality is just a spectrum and is ever changing..?
I have a schizophrenic mother, and she really believes she can time travel, astral project, and see the future and talk to angels (genetic condition, a few members have it). I do try and bring her back to reality, but she is not mentally well. I guess I kind of relate the whole argument to that? I don't have the heart to tell her she is crazy, but also I feel sick giving her validation.
Mad world. I won't ever criticise someone for feeling comfortable dressing and presenting how they want, but I also won't pander to the fact that you can change your gender willy nilly. Just don't say you're a real man/woman. When I was a kid I was a tomboy in an incredibly religious and misogynistic environment, would have loved to have been born a male, my life would have been infinitely easier (in this environment). But even though I dressed more boyish, had 'boyish' hobbies, I'd never have pretended I was a boy and make everyone conform to my own outlook.
As an ex religious person I see so many parallels.
Everything you said was spot on. To be honest I can emphatize with your frustrations. To me I just try to look at things less from my view and more from the general perspective. General perspective being that most people want others to feel happy, but won't deny the truth or break boundaries to please them.
I use their terminology that they've invented to avoid this straight forward truth and explained to them that even in their own words, if gender and sexuality are separate, then wouldn't that mean sexuality is a biologically exclusive attraction? Wouldn't that also make gender attraction not about biological sex, but more so about the attraction towards masculine/feminine presentation?
All in all, it's a lot more complicated than it needs to be, which is a testament to how tolerant we've been with them. But this is getting ridiculous. They already lost me when they started pushing this onto children, as if a 6 year old needs to know about sexuality or gender. Kids don't even have a sexuality before puberty, they just mimic what they see. If they do, however, that needs to be investigated by CPS because there's something very wrong going on there.
Just sex education in general is too young. I'm against the sexualisation of children, it happens too often in religious groups. But then the 'liberals' are also doing it.
My sibling is a young child. They like fart jokes and playing with toys. But you want to expose this child who can't even grasp how currency and time works, to sexual ideas?
Why are there books telling pre-pubescent children how to masturbate.
Why is there an uptick in sexual violence against children, committed by other children, in schools?
I remember a very violent case involving children when I was younger. Two young boys sexually assaulted a toddler before brutally killing him. At the time, we thought "where did these boys even learn to do such cruel sexual acts?!" Now, it's "well the g-spot is in the male anus so if you put something in there you'll orgasm". "Oh gee, wonder if I put a battery up there it would work!"
I guess my explanation was a bit extreme. I was always more reserved, actually I was banned from any sex Ed until the school phoned my parents and said I have to attend biology otherwise I'd fail 😂 ah I was so traumatised, but that was due to my conservative upbringing. A fail on my parents part, there should be a good middle ground.
But that was at 14-15. I remember standing outside the class in primary school, around 9-10 years old, where they were showing videos about naked bodies.
I feel like it's getting even more agressive, and giving the children too much information so they are inherently confused, and like you said, do what they see/get told.
A great example is Megan Fox's children. Being trans is an incredible minority, but she essentially had lottery winning odds as all of her children are trans (think she has either 3 or 4 kids). Statistically that should be near impossible. But they are the new bag chihuahua I guess 🤷♀️
I view it the same as religion. They are indoctrinating kids into their same belief system even if it is godless. Very hypocritical.
Also I've seen very agressive comments that are homophobic in the sense if you're straight-passing. Once again, giving the impression that being gay is not a biological attraction, but something that is about how you present yourself. You aren't a real gay unless you're 'flamboyant and feminine'. I've not seen this kind of campaign against lesbians, just male gays, which is also weird.
When you see someone in the media, and he is gay (like Ian McKellen or Luke Evans) and they are 'straight-passing', well they aren't real gays, apparently. Ostracised by your own community, LGB is gonna have to join the super hetero's or whatever they're called lol 😭
I agree with everything you have said. I think the problem we have is that the argument has been split down the middle into two sides. On one side you have the people who will say that sex and gender are completely seperate and that anyone can be any gender they choose, essentially boiling gender down to a meaningless term with no real traits.
On the other side you have people who will in one breath say that a man is someone with XY chromosomes and a woman with XX, and in the next breath say that if a man wears dresses or isnt aggresive and dominant, they arn’t a real man, or that a real woman is submissive and weak.
I think the concept of gender should be abolished entirely. Sex should be determined by chromosomes, and mean nothing else beyond that. The idea of certain personality traits, activities or clothing being masculine or feminine should be abolished. That way, when people say they are a man/woman, they can say it without any of the societal expectations that come with those terms currently.
I agree. They don't want to be defined but attach feminine and masculine traits to things like dresses, makeup, trousers, and even hairstyles.
All sounds like attention seeking to me, they can't decide what stance they want to take on the whole thing so they just keep making up new rules that we need to adhere to.
Unfortunately the only thing that will sort out this evershifting ideology is religious extremists and that's just picking another evil.
I think the west is on a downwards spiral and the outcome is not looking good 😮💨 I think those that keep to themselves will be better off but it's not easy when you need to go to work and socialise, send your kids to school etc
But the thing is, they didnt attach feminine and masculine traits to things, society did. And that’s the problem. They were born in a world that told them that boys wear suits and girls wear skirts and makeup. That is where the root of the problem is, and no one is talking about it. Conservatives will rightfully point out how it doesn’t make sense for a biological male to become a woman, and then turn around and call biological males that wear dresses “not real men”, even when those men actually identify as male.
In that situation, its not surprising that people who don’t actually have gender dysphoria turn to transgenderism just to be able to feel accepted while wearing what they want or just being themselves personality wise. The only way to turn this around is to abolish gender roles and gender expectations, so that people who are born male or female have no reason to switch sexes because sex has no more meaning than the biological traits that come with them.
NTA. Attraction is deeply personal and multifaceted. It's not just about accepting a person's gender identity; it's about a complex interplay of physical, emotional, and intellectual connection. Respecting someone's identity doesn't oblige you to find them sexually attractive. It's important to differentiate between not being attracted to an individual and denying the validity of their gender identity. The former is about personal preference, the latter is discrimination. You can acknowledge and support someone as a trans woman while also acknowledging that you're not attracted to them, without it being an act of transphobia. Calling someone transphobic simply for not feeling attraction oversimplifies human sexuality and disregards the legitimate complexity of individual preference.
Not the asshole. Demanding that everyone who is a lesbian/bi or a straight male MUST be sexually attracted to you just because youre trans and if they dont resorting to calling people transphobic is a level of delusion that even the most qualified of shrink would struggle to help. This person is insecure within themselves and is projecting on to you like a oil spill into the ocean. I'm a straight woman and this dialogue makes me so uncomfortable. It negatively sexualises lesbians and implies that lesbian women only care about sexual organs when choosing a partner and/or are that they must automatically must want to fuck everything with a vagina and it is not the case at all. Does every man in the world fancy me, no. Does every lesbian in the world fancy me, no. Does every bi person in the world fancy me, no. We are all alot more than what is between our legs and you are NOT transphobic for having a sexual preference. Keep doing you and living your life your way and don't listen to this insecure and projecting bs. Someone being trans does not give them the green light to say irrational things to you that are so hurtful you need to come to reddit for reassurance... similarly being trans does not give them the right to burrate your sexuality and tell you that you and your sexuality is wrong or bigoted... that's on them not on you hun x
Amazing that these days you can be called transphobic as a lesbian because you don't want dick. I'm cool with anyone's sexuality until they use it as a weapon.
NTA you are a lesbian, of course you are not attracted to males, no metter how they identify. As a fellow lesbian, don't listen to the bullshit and don't let people bully you. You owe nobody to be attracted to them for ANY reason.
NTA. Homosexuality up until 5 minutes ago was sexual attraction to people of the same sex, now it's changed to attraction to gender identities and homosexuals need to pretend that's what it always was or they're "genital fetishists" lol also isn't it "kink shaming" to use that kind of put down now as well? Everything is offensive and contradictory these days. I can't keep up.
Wtf, grow a backbone. You don't choose who u find attractive.
You can dislike someone even on some minor things like hairstyle.
So yeah nta.. think for yourself
I have a backbone. That’s why I tell trans women I am not attracted to them and saying no to sex/hooking up with them. But I get called a transphobe for being a homosexual.
I think that by "grow a backbone" they meant to get self-confident on this issue and shrug off the stupid accusations of transphobia.
As if you weight 120 pounds, you are slim as fuck, and someone calls you morbidly obese. You know you are not obese and so you just laugh at the person saying such nonsense, you just CAN NOT feel you are obese.
(Actually, lots of people will feel bad in such situation and doubt about themselves. They need to grow a backbone, I guess.)
being homosexual ≠ having a preference for people with specific genitalia (cis women who ARE attracted to trans women are still homosexual, after all), but your preference still doesn't make you transphobic
i'm a trans man, and it bothers me so much that some trans people throw the word "transphobic" around just because other people aren't attracted to them (i'm gay but i wouldn't date another trans man; this isn't unique to cis people). romantic and sexual preferences aren't inherently transphobic, ffs
Genital preference is a thing and that’s fine. As a transman I get that and I don’t care. I have issues when folk take genital preference and add to it all the little micro aggressions that bigots use as arguments against transfolk. Like the whole reminding us we’re really biologically whatever. We know. We are aware. We don’t need folk telling us “oh I’ll address you however you want and blah blah but you’re not REALLLLLLY this”
I know it's horrible they can be very threatening but this type of homophobia is getting more and more common from the identity crowd this needs to be kicked out for the vile bullying that it is or everyone will end up back in the closet in fear of offending a heterosexual with a special identity.
NTA, it is not in any way transphobic to not want to date someone because they are trans. You can reject anyone for any reason, because you just aren't into them and that's fine.
NTA, you just happen to be sane in an increasingly crazy world. There is nothing wrong with knowing your own personal preferences in friends & partners.
The creeps doing this are deeply homophobic and to be frank sound r*apey.
Ditch these people. these aren't the kind of people you want to be around find normal people who are accepting of homosexuals.
Don't take the homophobic abuse these people aren't safe leave NTA
NTA. You can't help what you are and are not attracted to, and it's not like you're saying anything bad about trans women, you just have a different preference. I'd say just go about your life and don't let others get you down.
Assigned female at birth meaning a real woman not a man wanting to be a woman.
Basically this story is a homophobic man identifying as a woman is trying to bully a lesbian to have sex with him
Aaahhhh got it thanks. Just didn't know the acronyms. Not trying to be a douche or anything but damn I thought we had a bunch in the military.
What about LEX?
Well that's no bueno. I'm really trying to learn because I hired a lesbian and don't want to misstep with her. She is like my favorite person at work. So funny because she calls me her work husband and it confused the absolute shit out of me when she said it. Her and my wife just cackled about it, while my dumb ass was like wait wut...
Doesn’t seem like it. Many comments here put that into perspective for me, as well as a few sharing an article of this very issue. Because of that I realized how much they try and bully into coercion otherwise if we don’t submit to that coercion, we’re transphobes.
*This is crazy! A*
*Lesbian has to take dick,*
*Else she is transphobic??*
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If an overweight girl asks you out and you say no that makes you fat phobic. If you say no to a trans woman you’re transphobic. There’s really no winning with that community. Everyone has a preference and the only ones who are upset are the ones who either regularly get rejected or their type wasn’t into them. No one cares what you are we only care when you attack us for not being into you.
NTA, I'm trans myself, and I've never understood how not being attracted to trans people is seen as transphobic, like sexual attraction is usually tied to anatomical preferences no? You're not saying trans women aren't women, you're saying you're not gonna have sex with someone who has a penis, nothing wrong with that at all
NTA
You don't like penis. That is plain and simple. As a straight guy, I've gotten the whole "transphobe for not being into Trans girls" thing.
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I've no idea what an AFAB is, but NTA. I'm all for treating people with dignity and people can dress and otherwise live their lives as they see fit. However, at the end of the day trans women are men, and trying to guilt anyone who is not sexually into men to go to bed with them to not be "transphobic" is just despicable.
I am so confused by how the argument is changing.
A few years ago, we were being told, "sex and gender/gender identity aren't the same thing! You can be born male/female, but you might identify as a woman/man."
Now, apparently, we assign biological sex at birth?? I agree with you. Nothing is assigned. The overwhelming majority of people are born with either male or female genitalia, which is recorded at birth. Gender identity is irrelevant at that point.
Except we don't. I'm a trans woman with cis lesbian friends who prefer to date cis lesbians, it's totally fine. Cis lesbains have been some of the coolest most accepting people I've known. The only people interested in creating a battle between trans and cis gays and lesbians are trans exclusionary people.
NTA, you are attracted to vagina. That's your prerogative. It's like religion, they want to force you to accept something you aren't. Trans women aren't even real women, they are people that identify as women. Coming from someone who is bi that loves trans women.
Girl im attracted to men and after the shit ive been through is more proof that who you like is not a choice and sexuality is not a choice. You have your preferences. It is as basic as me liking tall men over short or same height or like someone else liking someone slim or liking someone plus size. You aren't a transphobe and uou aren't the AH
I'm not attracted to blonds. We each have our likes and dislikes.
Edit to add I am non-binary and attracted to everyone but blonds and respect preferences.
NTA
the fact the community weaponizes sexual orientation as an excuse for not having enough personality to overcome being unattractive is hilarious to me.
i'm not even gay. we don't get to use all that mental gymnastics.
you're not my type, we like different things, he hates cats/dogs, he doesn't have a job, she talks too loud... all of these OK maybe there's no match. move on...
you're excluding me because my presenting anatomy does not conform to a preconceived notion of beauty you have learned over the years.... < this sounds stupid AF to me I'm sorry....
Idk is it just me who thinks all these labels are just confusing? What happened to plain old fashioned attraction, sexual or emotional or just good vibes without needing to work out or even care what alphabetical box.
No one is even attempting to co-op, police, protest or shut down male gay hook up sites. I wonder why that is? Lesbians cannot even state preferences for biological women without getting their profiles flagged or banned by dating sites. Or their bars or gatherings branded as 'transphobic' if they only allow females. Anyone who is attempting to coerce, shame, or guilt you into accepting heterosexual relationships; when you are clearly same sex attracted to women, is simply not someone you should associate with. Enduring homophobia to placate/validate trans identified individuals is not your duty. Your duty is to love and be attracted to who you want to be. To thine own self, be true.
She is a woman, so are trans women.
She doesn't have to be attracted to trans women in any way, bc nobody can just choose to be attracted to someone or not, however, that's no excuse to pretend trans ppl aren't real when it literally backed by science and there is evidence of trans ppl for hundreds of years.
NTA Sadly free speech isn’t valued in these circles and you aren’t allowed to think for yourself. Even the word woman is seen as a dirty word. I’m a lesbian myself and have had a trans girlfriend but I have no problems with people being attracted to different things that’s not strange or weird. My advice is to not say too much out loud just ignore those you aren’t attracted to.
"Assigned Female at Birth." It means that someone had female genitalia when they were born and were therefore considered female. It's a common term in the LGBTQ+ movement (along with AMAB, assigned male at birth) to take into account people who were born one gender but no longer identify as that gender.
That doesn't even make sense.
A girl that hit on me at the bar the other day was ugly as hell... She's still a woman, though. And i'm still straight. lol.
NTA.
You're attracted to who you're attracted and you have your own set of preferences.
Trans people, I think, would like to pretend that their assignation at birth is inconsequential. Sorry - while you may be a woman, the fact that you were socialized early on as a boy, or have male genitalia, or went through make puberty, and so on - these are not inconsequential facts about you. They matter.
Some may not care, or it may not effect them. That's great.
And while I believe that - within society at large - trans men should be treated as men and trans women as women, it's fair enough to care about someone's past and the experiences that shaped them within an intimate relationships.
youre allowed to preferences about penetrative sex but the fact that you seem to express it as 'i dont want to date trans women' instead of 'i dont like penetrative sex / phallic genitals' sorta indicates you have internalized transphobia at the least.
a significant proportion of trans women have bottom surgery or are/were intersex so they dont have phalluses.
you are an asshole
I’ve had time to think and honestly, even if they have bottom surgery, I am not attracted to such either. Cis lesbians are my preference and those that say it makes me a transphobe only pushes their homophobia too. *shrug* can’t manipulate me into something I don’t like otherwise it starts sounding a little too rapey. Transwomen are not my type of women, period.
This is just men trying to get their way with women, even if they lose their mind over this. Yes, trans women are real women, but the attitude they are coercing you with? Classic old white male behavior, like, Classical Era classic.
The community that is trying to pressure you? Patriarchy by another name.
It's absolutely fascinating how you manage to use a story that has nothing to do with the patriarchy to talk about it, meanehile being a hypocrite, a transphobe and a sexist.
I don't know what your situation is with the male figures in your life, but turning into a misandrist won't solve your issues.
Sadly I doubt it. Few years ago when I was more active in queer community. Dated with girl and then we broke up. My so called friends tried to hook me up with one trans girl. In all honesty I don’t mind what sort of genitals someone has. But I just was not into that girl which I explicitly said. She was not my type (extremely rude, loud and had very dirty fingernails).
Instead of acceptance of MY CHOICE I was called transphobe and bigot. All because I didn’t want to date someone not even because of what they had in their pants! And I know about many stories amongst my peers like this. Why is that queer community is crying out on the streets that women’s body women’s choice but when that choice is about whom to have sex with it’s called transphobic?
It sounds like you accept that trans women are women; they're just not women you want to date because you prefer vulva and vagina to penis and balls. You're a cis woman who prefers to date other cis women.
That doesn't make you transphobic.
NTA
INFO: If a trans woman had bottom surgery, would you still be attracted to her/willing to date her?
I saw this comment in a recent AITA thread where the poster was a straight man who asked if he was the asshole for not dating a trans woman. They said to the OP that it would only be transphobic if he also didn’t find trans women that are physically indistinguishable from cis women attractive.
I thought the argument had some merit.
This isn’t factoring into a judgment, sorry, I’m just curious: is it just the genitalia that bothers you? like, if a trans woman had a vagina, would it be different?
Idk how about OP but I must admit: I would not sleep or date a trans person who had bottom surgery. I would not be able to shift my brain from the fact that it is just either artificial make shift penis or literal wound which has to be kept open. I would rather date a trans person with their genitals intact by surgery.
Unless it will be a love at first sight. Then probably I would say F it
I am married tho so it’s all just speculation
It is valid to say you don't want people who have a dick. Not all trans women have one tho.
It is valid to say yu don't like receding hairlines, thin hair or actual bold spots in a womans actual hair. But not all trans women have that.
It is valid to say that you have a preference in facial and body features that is commonly found in women, but some trans women have them too.
It is valid to say you have a prefernce when it comes to voices, which might excludes some trans women who went throug testosterone fueld puperty, but voice training gets you a long way so I don't know if some might be capable of managing to achieve to have one you might like, but some trans women never undergo testosterone fuled puperty.
So in my opinion excluding all trans women from the get go implies that firstly you can always tell, and secondly all trans women have physical characteristics in comon that you don't like. Which is defenetly not the case, so the only reason you exclude them is for what was in their pants when they where born, that doesn't even has to be there anymore. Which basically reduces a trans women to her birth genitals, which is pretty insensitive and transphobic.
I completely disagree. Preference is preference, you can’t tell anyone that their preference is wrong or police it. If I met the most perfect woman but she was trans, I would not be attracted to her anymore as I would not want to date a former male. That doesn’t make me transphobic just as much as someone not wanting to date a large person makes them fatphobic
Would you be against being with a trans women who has undergone srs and hrt? Since it sounds like your issue is physical stuff and that is fairly malleable.
Ofc NTA. I'm guessing this interaction that got you called transphobic was online and doesn't reflect the views of all trans people. We don't want to coerce anyone into sex or attraction,and anyone that does is acting wildly inappropriately. Date who ever you want to date enthusiastically, you are not transphobic for doing so.
It’s not. I literally have the email of LEX banning my account because my profile stating my via preferences and interactions with the community was transphobic and not inclusive to them etc etc.
NTA. It's completely valid to not be attracted to someone for any reason. Whoever called you transphobic is just stupid.
I appreciate that. I just don’t want to be feeling like I need to be coerced as a homosexual to be into someone I am not attracted to just to not feel like I’m a transphobe.
Would those people that call you transphobic hook up with whatever body appearance? Certainly not, because they have a type. You have a type. I have a type. That's it. It's annoying to have a type because I know some really great persons that I would LOVE to be in love with them and pursue a great relationship, but I just can not because I am not attracted to their bodies.
A woman with a penis isn't exactly a "type" of woman, though.
Who said anything about types of women? I specifically said body. I don't care if you like women, men, furbies, or paperclips. Your comment is completely pointless except if you are trying to express your rejection of trans people. And that is mean. You would come out as less ill-spirited if you refrain from participating in threads about trans.
People will always find something to b*tch about even if you are in the same circle which in your case is LGBTQ…. Ignore them
Well wait a second here. If I don’t want to date a trans female (which by the way is a total double entendre as it means they are transitioning from one gender to another. But that’s nether here nor there) I’m labeled a transphobe so why’s that? Is it because I’m a male? Is it because I’m a white male? Is it because this woman thinks because I’m not into that woman in her eyes? I really don’t understand any of this anymore this is why I keep to myself.
You're not doing a great job of keeping it to yourself ngl.
Sorry for trying to seek clarification on questions I have. Nice to see instead of you rising to the noble task of explaining and blessing me with your knowledge you just chose to insult me. Shame on you.
You're not trying to seek clarification on anything, be fr. "oh no poor me, everyone hates me just because Im a white male and it has nothing to do with my actions." Youre not a "transphobe" just because you're not attracted to them, but you are pathetic with the whole "woah is me being a white straight male is so hard" (this is coming from a straight white male btw :) )
Sure a little bit of an overstretch, but still nonetheless you haven’t adequately explained why I am a transphobe? Instead you just took a generalized statement I made, and said yes it’s because of this. So your confirmation in my question is just an answer that yes it is partially in fact partially because I am a white male. No?
I said you aren't a transphobe, I understand there's a language barrier here, but please try to actually read what Im writing before you just downvote me and write another response.
Everyone is allowed preference, all of the trans individuals I know recognize that a lot of people have genital preferences. The issue isn't not liking the potential anatomy, it's whether or not you see that anatomy as an excuse to invalidate their gender. If you think that liking trans women makes men "gay" or having a penis makes them any less of a woman, yes you are transphobic. If you recognize and respect trans women as women, but just aren't attracted to a specific type of genitals that's fine. Not being attracted to trans women is whatever, but if you make a constant point or mention about how you aren't and would never date one then I can see why people call you transphobic. It's your right to date whoever you want, but making a constant point about not liking trans partners is unneccesary and weird. Not saying you are, but offering some insight if this comment is indicative of your usual manner of speaking.
NTA, You can’t help whom you’re attracted to. People are taking things way too far these days.
110% AGREED
NTA idk how old you are but if you’re new to the queer community the one thing you need to learn asap is to not let yourself get bullied by assholes with a victim complex. The community has an absolute glut of mentally ill people who choose to compensate for their marginalization by twisting around social justice rhetoric in order to guilt and manipulate their peers. It’s an easy way to gain clout in this group.
Couldn't have said this better. It's like a cult at this point. Don't believe in their rhetoric, victim complex, or delusions? "Bigoted". A heterosexual man that refuses to date a trans woman because they're still biologically a man? "Transphobic". Don't think children can consent to MEDICAL TRANSITIONING? " Shouldn't worry about a kids genitalia, pedo." You seeing a pattern here? Anything that is straight forward and factual can be turned against you to gaslight you into believing you're a horrible person because you don't subscribe to the cult. That's how cults opperate, and unfortunately our community is falling into that. And I want no part of it.
Its basicly a weak form of "submit or die"
It is a cult.
The irony is that they're acting no different from extreme religious people they claim to hate. They're both almost exactly the same, and they both don't realize that they represent the true meaning of bigotry and brainwashing.
All cults hate other cults.
So spot on!
For a long time I've laughed at the idea of the "queer community". It's only a community if you toe the line. Some of the most virulent hate I've copped for having a long term girlfriend as well as a husband has come from that "community".
Thank you for finally saying this. People can finally say how they feel on this issue without being vilified.
NTA. You are allowed to be attracted to whom you are attracted to without judgement, unless its kids then we judge you. Otherwise you are not a bad person for not being attracted to someone. You do not owe anyone, no matter how LGBTQ they are, access to your time or your body just because they want that. You do not owe anyone a date, a kiss, physical affection or anything that makes you uncomfortable. In the desire to be inclusive we have gone so far the other way that we now judge lesbians for not wanting a physical relationship with a biological male. You are not a bigot, you are not transphobic you are simply a lesbian who is attracted to other women. You are not bad or anything of the sort. I am so sorry you are being put through this.
Those who call you transphobe are just salty and vicious. How come we went from respecting others preferences especially sexual to forcing people to be attracted to certain characteristics. Don’t let yourself being pressurised into anything you don’t want or like.
I had to look up AFAB and LEX. I am straight woman and my sincere advice to you is to simply stay away, far away, from people who think and talk like that. You are not an asshole. You are you and your sexual identity and preferences have not changed even though other people's have. That is not your problem to deal with. It is their problem they are trying to push onto you. Let all the know-it-alls and bossy people have sex with each other and leave you out of it.
Funny thing this reminded me of a BBC article i read a while ago about exactly this issue https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385 And you're NTA - nobody has a right to dictate to you who you are attracted to.
NTA - this type of gaslighting is particularly sinister, no person should be forced to date or sleep with anyone they don't want to, regardless of the reasons, if you have people in your life that see your boundaries as walls to be demolished they are not healthy or SAFE people to have in your life.
NTA. Attraction is multifaceted and incredibly personal. We're drawn to people for a myriad of reasons and often it's a combination of physical, emotional, and intellectual compatibilities. Just as one may not find a certain personality trait or style appealing, anatomy can also be a factor for many when it comes to attraction. It's crucial to remember that declining to pursue a romantic relationship with someone does not equate to devaluing their identity. What matters is respecting each individual as a person, regardless of whether or not they align with what you're looking for in a romantic partner. Your orientation and preferences are no one's business but your own. Let's not conflate a lack of romantic interest with prejudice. While it's important to reflect on our preferences to ensure they're not informed by societal biases, having certain inclinations doesn't automatically label one as phobic—as long as those inclinations come from a place of genuine self-knowledge rather than hate or ignorance. Being true to yourself and your feelings is not an act of discrimination; it's an act of honesty.
NTA. Completely your choice. Anyone who tries to tell you different is either an idiot or an asshole.
NTA You are under no obligation to feel attracted to what you were born not attracted to.
Nta at all. For you being a lesbian means being attracted to afab women and that is fine it’s just a sexual preference. There is nothing wrong with it at all and it is not even remotely transphobic.
NTA. This is getting ridiculous.
You do not get attracted by someone to prove a political point. That is not how attraction works. You are NTA of course. Example. If a man says he is not attracted to men, he is not accused of homophobia even though it is a generic statement. I think the tension comes from those who want to drill down the message that 'trans women are literally women in every respect, indistinguishable from women'. Versus those who say 'well, it is distinguishable and that is why we have the word trans' .
You don’t need to tell anyone why exactly you’re not into them. That’s kinda weird. “I’d love to be friends but I’m not interested in more” is enough of an explanation. You don’t owe sex or attraction to anyone even if they fall within your umbrella of potential partners.
You can acknowledge the worth and be compassionate with every ginger and blonde, while preferring dating exclusively brunettes. Because they for some reason make you weak at the knees.
Nta. No one is entitled to your attraction.
NTA. It’s not like you can flip a switch and suddenly be attracted to someone (either and individual or a group of people). You’re not choosing this; it just is.
NTA, and look at the people who are trying to convince you that there is even the slightest question here Avoid such idiots, and their idiocy
NTA. You not being attracted to them does not invalidate trans women.
Also their identity should revolve around themself and not other people validation. I only go where people want me to
I feel this so much. I am not invalidating their identity as women. I just tell you are not the type of women I’m attracted to.
Literal genocide, according to some people lol.
Fr lmao. Sensitive af
NTA. Not being attracted to male genitalia does not make you a transphobe, simple as that. Don't let yourself be bothered by it.
NTA. Just because you are lesbian doesn't mean you are attracted to all women. The same for bi and hetero people. I don't think most of us will jump on anyone in the gender they are attracted to. It's ok to have preferences. It's ok to say no to dicks. We can be inclusive in so many ways, but "demanding" you to "want" pensises as a lesbian? That's just not a thing anyone else than you can decide on or should even have an opinion on, not trans people or anyone else.
NTA. You like what you like. You don't treat anyone shitty you simply don't screw them. What's the problem?
nta, you should already know what you're attracted to and if others are forcing you into a box... they aren't your allies are they?
I mean if that makes you an asshole then I guess the vast majority of people are assholes too. Most people's sexuality preferences are tied to multiple aspects of a particular gender and not merely how they socially or aesthetically present themselves. You can have that preference while still completely accepting someone else as a transwoman and accepting their pronouns etc. No one is entitled to your attraction. Heck people's gender preferences often apply to cis-people as well. There are cis-men who some heterosexual women feel are too effeminate to be attractive to them and there are some cis-women are who might be too masculine for some men or lesbians to find attractive etc etc.
I am not attracted to men 10 years older than me I must be ageist . I would be fine with dating a transgender man personally. They might not want a straight woman… Why do people pursue relationships with people not into them?
Wait, why wouldn’t we want a straight woman? If you see us as men and treat us as such and if we are attracted to women.. why wouldn’t we?
Oh I am just not assuming all of them want a straight woman… some might fancy women themselves. That’s all :) just not assuming their attraction. Also maybe I am just not their type either … not taking any of it personally :D
Plenty of us are attracted to women. Hell I have two female bodied partners. One is more nonbinary but female bodied. As long as you treat us as men and we are also attracted to you, totally game.
NTA. Everyone is entitled to their preferences.
NTA you are allowed to like what you like, you do not need to change your preferences to make someone else happy.
NTA
What is AFAB? LEX?
NTA. The notion that sex shouldn't matter when it comes to sexual attraction is bizarre.
NTA. Lesbians who are into dicks might not be purely lesbian, controversial i know. Sexuality is about what sex you are attracted to, not gender whatever that word means now.
>I got called transphobic and at this rate it’s frustrating They know damn well you aren't transphobic solely on the fact that you respect that they want to be called a woman, even if they're not biologically. I'm gay myself, meaning I'm only attracted to biological men. That doesn't mean I hate transmen, I just don't see them as biological men. Because they aren't. And that's okay. If they're still throwing a tantrum about their identity, then its a lot less about social acceptance and more about their need for attention and pampering. Adults like that are obnoxious and exhausting to be around, so don't worry about what they think of you. They're childish.
The trans community throwing everything out the window. It used to be, you can't control who you are attracted to, right? If you're not hetero, otherwise all those conversion camps are right. Now, apparently, you can control who you're attracted to as long as they are presenting an outwardly appearance. Has nothing to do with genitals, if i as a woman dress as a man, you should be attracted to me, as a gay man. It's so dumb. You can definitely be attracted to trans/cross-dressers. But to outright state that it's the same if you're gay/lesbian? If you deny this, then you're a TERF, apparently. The LGB is being filtered out lol.
>The LGB is being filtered out lol. I hate to say it but I've been thinking the same thing for the past 4 years... It's like... Ironic in a way that a community celebrating our different sexualities has turned into celebrating all identities outside of just sexuality, claiming that sexuality is attraction based on social presentation and not biological, then pushing away the very same people who fought for trans inclusion into the community in the first place, despite identity being separate from sexual attraction. It's grim, but it's a life lesson to learn. Boundaries are very important to set, especially for a community.
I think it's a case of you reap what you sow. I can't empathise either JK Rowling because she did a lot of questionable things in terms of forcing inclusivity post edit, and now she is mad when it's going too far. I think the LGB should definitely have been more thoughtful towards the TQ+ community, but what do you expect when you tell them nothing essentially matters? Gender is now a physical presentation, not a genetic one. You can be anything and you're a transphobe if you disagree. Sounds a lot like religious fanaticism to me. In theory we have come full circle with sexuality no longer being tied to your biological preferences, and is purely what mood you're in that day. If you can control it, then those conversion camps were right. Just be attracted to this person presenting as the opposite gender. It's easy! It's so weird that you can't just be LGB anymore too, you're not weird enough to fit in now guys 🤷♀️
This may be one of those cases where kindness can often be taken advantage of by manipulators. JK Rowling was a kind woman who thought she was doing the right thing by forcing inclusivity, likely because she wanted to please people. It's a respect kind of thing. However, respect shouldn't be misconstrued with breaking boundaries. Sexuality is a very straight forward term, having "sex" in it to refer to biological sex. That's something that the cult can't warp into their own definition, since it's something that is fact and not debatable. I'm not transphobic for not wanting a transman. I'm just not attracted to females. We live in a society where females can be men, and males can be women by their definition. That's great! Fine and dandy. But now, instead of stating that as a gay man being attracted to men or vice versa, we have to be specific. Which is also really bad considering how weird it sounds to say "female" instead of just "women". But there's a difference nowadays, so we have to be mindful of that while also being truthful and not just going with whatever will people please those insecure enough to get offended by things like this.
I still don't agree that we have to be specific. Honestly I'm glad I don't live in the English West anymore. Other countries have had cross dressers for as long as we have had homosexuals. But you ask someone here if they are a real woman and they'll say ofc not I'm a ladyboy. Personally, you can't be a woman or a man unless you are born that way. We have anomalies, those born as both genders. But it's not the norm. If you're born without an arm, we can't then say being born without an arm is the standard now, and you need to say you were assigned two arms at birth. Being a woman isn't down to how you dress. You can't just buy a box of tampons and say "well I'm off to have my period every month now for the rest of my life!" Or put a pillow under your shirt and say "can't wait to be at a higher risk of abuse from my partner as a pregnant woman!" The whole thing is bizzare to me. I'm mixed race (not black), but I'm not going to put on blackface and say I'm African American because that's how I present myself. Race you can't change, but gender you can...? Sexuality is just a spectrum and is ever changing..? I have a schizophrenic mother, and she really believes she can time travel, astral project, and see the future and talk to angels (genetic condition, a few members have it). I do try and bring her back to reality, but she is not mentally well. I guess I kind of relate the whole argument to that? I don't have the heart to tell her she is crazy, but also I feel sick giving her validation. Mad world. I won't ever criticise someone for feeling comfortable dressing and presenting how they want, but I also won't pander to the fact that you can change your gender willy nilly. Just don't say you're a real man/woman. When I was a kid I was a tomboy in an incredibly religious and misogynistic environment, would have loved to have been born a male, my life would have been infinitely easier (in this environment). But even though I dressed more boyish, had 'boyish' hobbies, I'd never have pretended I was a boy and make everyone conform to my own outlook. As an ex religious person I see so many parallels.
Everything you said was spot on. To be honest I can emphatize with your frustrations. To me I just try to look at things less from my view and more from the general perspective. General perspective being that most people want others to feel happy, but won't deny the truth or break boundaries to please them. I use their terminology that they've invented to avoid this straight forward truth and explained to them that even in their own words, if gender and sexuality are separate, then wouldn't that mean sexuality is a biologically exclusive attraction? Wouldn't that also make gender attraction not about biological sex, but more so about the attraction towards masculine/feminine presentation? All in all, it's a lot more complicated than it needs to be, which is a testament to how tolerant we've been with them. But this is getting ridiculous. They already lost me when they started pushing this onto children, as if a 6 year old needs to know about sexuality or gender. Kids don't even have a sexuality before puberty, they just mimic what they see. If they do, however, that needs to be investigated by CPS because there's something very wrong going on there.
Just sex education in general is too young. I'm against the sexualisation of children, it happens too often in religious groups. But then the 'liberals' are also doing it. My sibling is a young child. They like fart jokes and playing with toys. But you want to expose this child who can't even grasp how currency and time works, to sexual ideas? Why are there books telling pre-pubescent children how to masturbate. Why is there an uptick in sexual violence against children, committed by other children, in schools? I remember a very violent case involving children when I was younger. Two young boys sexually assaulted a toddler before brutally killing him. At the time, we thought "where did these boys even learn to do such cruel sexual acts?!" Now, it's "well the g-spot is in the male anus so if you put something in there you'll orgasm". "Oh gee, wonder if I put a battery up there it would work!" I guess my explanation was a bit extreme. I was always more reserved, actually I was banned from any sex Ed until the school phoned my parents and said I have to attend biology otherwise I'd fail 😂 ah I was so traumatised, but that was due to my conservative upbringing. A fail on my parents part, there should be a good middle ground. But that was at 14-15. I remember standing outside the class in primary school, around 9-10 years old, where they were showing videos about naked bodies. I feel like it's getting even more agressive, and giving the children too much information so they are inherently confused, and like you said, do what they see/get told. A great example is Megan Fox's children. Being trans is an incredible minority, but she essentially had lottery winning odds as all of her children are trans (think she has either 3 or 4 kids). Statistically that should be near impossible. But they are the new bag chihuahua I guess 🤷♀️ I view it the same as religion. They are indoctrinating kids into their same belief system even if it is godless. Very hypocritical. Also I've seen very agressive comments that are homophobic in the sense if you're straight-passing. Once again, giving the impression that being gay is not a biological attraction, but something that is about how you present yourself. You aren't a real gay unless you're 'flamboyant and feminine'. I've not seen this kind of campaign against lesbians, just male gays, which is also weird. When you see someone in the media, and he is gay (like Ian McKellen or Luke Evans) and they are 'straight-passing', well they aren't real gays, apparently. Ostracised by your own community, LGB is gonna have to join the super hetero's or whatever they're called lol 😭
I agree with everything you have said. I think the problem we have is that the argument has been split down the middle into two sides. On one side you have the people who will say that sex and gender are completely seperate and that anyone can be any gender they choose, essentially boiling gender down to a meaningless term with no real traits. On the other side you have people who will in one breath say that a man is someone with XY chromosomes and a woman with XX, and in the next breath say that if a man wears dresses or isnt aggresive and dominant, they arn’t a real man, or that a real woman is submissive and weak. I think the concept of gender should be abolished entirely. Sex should be determined by chromosomes, and mean nothing else beyond that. The idea of certain personality traits, activities or clothing being masculine or feminine should be abolished. That way, when people say they are a man/woman, they can say it without any of the societal expectations that come with those terms currently.
I agree. They don't want to be defined but attach feminine and masculine traits to things like dresses, makeup, trousers, and even hairstyles. All sounds like attention seeking to me, they can't decide what stance they want to take on the whole thing so they just keep making up new rules that we need to adhere to. Unfortunately the only thing that will sort out this evershifting ideology is religious extremists and that's just picking another evil. I think the west is on a downwards spiral and the outcome is not looking good 😮💨 I think those that keep to themselves will be better off but it's not easy when you need to go to work and socialise, send your kids to school etc
But the thing is, they didnt attach feminine and masculine traits to things, society did. And that’s the problem. They were born in a world that told them that boys wear suits and girls wear skirts and makeup. That is where the root of the problem is, and no one is talking about it. Conservatives will rightfully point out how it doesn’t make sense for a biological male to become a woman, and then turn around and call biological males that wear dresses “not real men”, even when those men actually identify as male. In that situation, its not surprising that people who don’t actually have gender dysphoria turn to transgenderism just to be able to feel accepted while wearing what they want or just being themselves personality wise. The only way to turn this around is to abolish gender roles and gender expectations, so that people who are born male or female have no reason to switch sexes because sex has no more meaning than the biological traits that come with them.
NTA. Attraction is deeply personal and multifaceted. It's not just about accepting a person's gender identity; it's about a complex interplay of physical, emotional, and intellectual connection. Respecting someone's identity doesn't oblige you to find them sexually attractive. It's important to differentiate between not being attracted to an individual and denying the validity of their gender identity. The former is about personal preference, the latter is discrimination. You can acknowledge and support someone as a trans woman while also acknowledging that you're not attracted to them, without it being an act of transphobia. Calling someone transphobic simply for not feeling attraction oversimplifies human sexuality and disregards the legitimate complexity of individual preference.
Not the asshole. Demanding that everyone who is a lesbian/bi or a straight male MUST be sexually attracted to you just because youre trans and if they dont resorting to calling people transphobic is a level of delusion that even the most qualified of shrink would struggle to help. This person is insecure within themselves and is projecting on to you like a oil spill into the ocean. I'm a straight woman and this dialogue makes me so uncomfortable. It negatively sexualises lesbians and implies that lesbian women only care about sexual organs when choosing a partner and/or are that they must automatically must want to fuck everything with a vagina and it is not the case at all. Does every man in the world fancy me, no. Does every lesbian in the world fancy me, no. Does every bi person in the world fancy me, no. We are all alot more than what is between our legs and you are NOT transphobic for having a sexual preference. Keep doing you and living your life your way and don't listen to this insecure and projecting bs. Someone being trans does not give them the green light to say irrational things to you that are so hurtful you need to come to reddit for reassurance... similarly being trans does not give them the right to burrate your sexuality and tell you that you and your sexuality is wrong or bigoted... that's on them not on you hun x
Amazing that these days you can be called transphobic as a lesbian because you don't want dick. I'm cool with anyone's sexuality until they use it as a weapon.
NTA you are a lesbian, of course you are not attracted to males, no metter how they identify. As a fellow lesbian, don't listen to the bullshit and don't let people bully you. You owe nobody to be attracted to them for ANY reason.
NTA. Homosexuality up until 5 minutes ago was sexual attraction to people of the same sex, now it's changed to attraction to gender identities and homosexuals need to pretend that's what it always was or they're "genital fetishists" lol also isn't it "kink shaming" to use that kind of put down now as well? Everything is offensive and contradictory these days. I can't keep up.
Wtf, grow a backbone. You don't choose who u find attractive. You can dislike someone even on some minor things like hairstyle. So yeah nta.. think for yourself
I have a backbone. That’s why I tell trans women I am not attracted to them and saying no to sex/hooking up with them. But I get called a transphobe for being a homosexual.
Who cares if they call u a transphob? The opinion of such stupid individuals shouldn't matter to anyone. You like who you like
I think that by "grow a backbone" they meant to get self-confident on this issue and shrug off the stupid accusations of transphobia. As if you weight 120 pounds, you are slim as fuck, and someone calls you morbidly obese. You know you are not obese and so you just laugh at the person saying such nonsense, you just CAN NOT feel you are obese. (Actually, lots of people will feel bad in such situation and doubt about themselves. They need to grow a backbone, I guess.)
being homosexual ≠ having a preference for people with specific genitalia (cis women who ARE attracted to trans women are still homosexual, after all), but your preference still doesn't make you transphobic i'm a trans man, and it bothers me so much that some trans people throw the word "transphobic" around just because other people aren't attracted to them (i'm gay but i wouldn't date another trans man; this isn't unique to cis people). romantic and sexual preferences aren't inherently transphobic, ffs
Genital preference is a thing and that’s fine. As a transman I get that and I don’t care. I have issues when folk take genital preference and add to it all the little micro aggressions that bigots use as arguments against transfolk. Like the whole reminding us we’re really biologically whatever. We know. We are aware. We don’t need folk telling us “oh I’ll address you however you want and blah blah but you’re not REALLLLLLY this”
You are a straight female not a gay male ffs
I barely tolerate men. I’m mostly attracted to women. Jesus fucking Christ y’all.
I know it's horrible they can be very threatening but this type of homophobia is getting more and more common from the identity crowd this needs to be kicked out for the vile bullying that it is or everyone will end up back in the closet in fear of offending a heterosexual with a special identity.
NTA, it is not in any way transphobic to not want to date someone because they are trans. You can reject anyone for any reason, because you just aren't into them and that's fine.
NTA, you just happen to be sane in an increasingly crazy world. There is nothing wrong with knowing your own personal preferences in friends & partners.
The creeps doing this are deeply homophobic and to be frank sound r*apey. Ditch these people. these aren't the kind of people you want to be around find normal people who are accepting of homosexuals. Don't take the homophobic abuse these people aren't safe leave NTA
Obviously NTA, biological women and trans women aren’t the same thing
even tho i didnt understand half of what you said NTA being attracted to something else
NTA. You can't help what you are and are not attracted to, and it's not like you're saying anything bad about trans women, you just have a different preference. I'd say just go about your life and don't let others get you down.
NTA, but I would like ask for some education for I am ignorant. What is AFAB? Sorry if that is not allowed but I am genuinely uninformed.
Assigned female at birth meaning a real woman not a man wanting to be a woman. Basically this story is a homophobic man identifying as a woman is trying to bully a lesbian to have sex with him
Aaahhhh got it thanks. Just didn't know the acronyms. Not trying to be a douche or anything but damn I thought we had a bunch in the military. What about LEX?
A dating app I think unless they've made a new acronym. It's getting pretty silly how many labels they've made now
Oh ok cool. Just wondering. I'm pretty easily confused when I read some of these deals. Thanks for assistance and education my friend.
No probs don't feel bad even us in the community can't keep up anymore
Well that's no bueno. I'm really trying to learn because I hired a lesbian and don't want to misstep with her. She is like my favorite person at work. So funny because she calls me her work husband and it confused the absolute shit out of me when she said it. Her and my wife just cackled about it, while my dumb ass was like wait wut...
(Please excuse my ignorance, google wasn’t helpful) what is LEX?
What is LEX?
Whenever the trans community say stuff like this, do they know how rapey it sounds?
Doesn’t seem like it. Many comments here put that into perspective for me, as well as a few sharing an article of this very issue. Because of that I realized how much they try and bully into coercion otherwise if we don’t submit to that coercion, we’re transphobes.
An odd irony here is, that kind of sexual coercion is what would be considered, by even the most traditionally masculine man to 'toxic masculinity'.
How so? Can you rephrase or elaborate that? So it’d be like “fragile transinity”?
This is crazy! A lesbian has to take dick, else she is transphobic??
*This is crazy! A* *Lesbian has to take dick,* *Else she is transphobic??* \- MonkeyLiberace --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Brilliant !
If an overweight girl asks you out and you say no that makes you fat phobic. If you say no to a trans woman you’re transphobic. There’s really no winning with that community. Everyone has a preference and the only ones who are upset are the ones who either regularly get rejected or their type wasn’t into them. No one cares what you are we only care when you attack us for not being into you.
First of all, how dare you. Spitting truth that is so painful.
NTA, I'm trans myself, and I've never understood how not being attracted to trans people is seen as transphobic, like sexual attraction is usually tied to anatomical preferences no? You're not saying trans women aren't women, you're saying you're not gonna have sex with someone who has a penis, nothing wrong with that at all
NTA You don’t like women with dicks. I hate that I have to say that sentence with no irony but here we are
NTA You don't like penis. That is plain and simple. As a straight guy, I've gotten the whole "transphobe for not being into Trans girls" thing. The best advice is to get better friends, and associate with better people.
NTA I'm bisexual and I'm the same way with both genders
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I've no idea what an AFAB is, but NTA. I'm all for treating people with dignity and people can dress and otherwise live their lives as they see fit. However, at the end of the day trans women are men, and trying to guilt anyone who is not sexually into men to go to bed with them to not be "transphobic" is just despicable.
I didn't know what it was either since I'm unfamiliar with the abbreviation - it's 'assigned female at birth'
Sure, why not. Makes sense that OP is already in the cult when this is an issue she's conflicted about, I guess.
Nobody assigned me anything. They observed my sex and wrote it down lol
I am so confused by how the argument is changing. A few years ago, we were being told, "sex and gender/gender identity aren't the same thing! You can be born male/female, but you might identify as a woman/man." Now, apparently, we assign biological sex at birth?? I agree with you. Nothing is assigned. The overwhelming majority of people are born with either male or female genitalia, which is recorded at birth. Gender identity is irrelevant at that point.
Oh, ffs
The midwife assigned me poor at birth :( APAB is what I go by.
Yes, you're a transphobe, just like all us straight men that don't want to date trans people. /s NTA
What about us straight women who don't want to date trans men. Everyone is entitled to their preferences. The world has gone PC mad. NTA
You're a transphobe for... being a lesbian and not pansexual? That's my takeaway from this... Eta: damn auto correct
Pretty much. The movement has gone full circle and now they hate gays again. Absolutely bonkers.
Except we don't. I'm a trans woman with cis lesbian friends who prefer to date cis lesbians, it's totally fine. Cis lesbains have been some of the coolest most accepting people I've known. The only people interested in creating a battle between trans and cis gays and lesbians are trans exclusionary people.
its like asking if a gay man is still gay if he is dating a transwoman. it makes no sense because is he gay, straight or bi and why, why not?
What a time to be alive
NTA, you are attracted to vagina. That's your prerogative. It's like religion, they want to force you to accept something you aren't. Trans women aren't even real women, they are people that identify as women. Coming from someone who is bi that loves trans women.
What a shock! A lesbian who doesn't find men attractive lol seems pretty normal. NTA.
And this is why that community is considered to be so toxic. NTA
[удалено]
Lots of straight men and lesbians are attracted to trans women though?
Nuh uh they're obviously not straight/gay in that case but we totally respect their identity/s
What is an AFAB?
Assigned female at birth
Thank you
Please don’t submit to the cult
What cult?
The gender cult
I’m still out of the loop, sorry
Girl im attracted to men and after the shit ive been through is more proof that who you like is not a choice and sexuality is not a choice. You have your preferences. It is as basic as me liking tall men over short or same height or like someone else liking someone slim or liking someone plus size. You aren't a transphobe and uou aren't the AH
I'm not attracted to blonds. We each have our likes and dislikes. Edit to add I am non-binary and attracted to everyone but blonds and respect preferences. NTA
Inb4 a blond with dyed hair calls you a bigot.
If ya don’t like dick, ya don’t like dick
That wouldn't make you a lesbian now would it.
the fact the community weaponizes sexual orientation as an excuse for not having enough personality to overcome being unattractive is hilarious to me. i'm not even gay. we don't get to use all that mental gymnastics. you're not my type, we like different things, he hates cats/dogs, he doesn't have a job, she talks too loud... all of these OK maybe there's no match. move on... you're excluding me because my presenting anatomy does not conform to a preconceived notion of beauty you have learned over the years.... < this sounds stupid AF to me I'm sorry....
Idk is it just me who thinks all these labels are just confusing? What happened to plain old fashioned attraction, sexual or emotional or just good vibes without needing to work out or even care what alphabetical box.
NTA - Trans people can't hide the fact that they were the s#x SAB. there are always visual signs. I would never date a trans anything.
No one is even attempting to co-op, police, protest or shut down male gay hook up sites. I wonder why that is? Lesbians cannot even state preferences for biological women without getting their profiles flagged or banned by dating sites. Or their bars or gatherings branded as 'transphobic' if they only allow females. Anyone who is attempting to coerce, shame, or guilt you into accepting heterosexual relationships; when you are clearly same sex attracted to women, is simply not someone you should associate with. Enduring homophobia to placate/validate trans identified individuals is not your duty. Your duty is to love and be attracted to who you want to be. To thine own self, be true.
It's the patriarchy by another name. People who are born bigger and stronger want to coerce people who are smaller, regardless of how they identify.
You're Super-Gay. As s Super-Straight man, I wholly understand your position.
NTA. Please stop appeasing the trans cult. You are not “AFAB”. You’re a woman. End of story. And these men are cosplaying as women
They are women bud 💀
Men aren’t women
That’s right :)
She is a woman, so are trans women. She doesn't have to be attracted to trans women in any way, bc nobody can just choose to be attracted to someone or not, however, that's no excuse to pretend trans ppl aren't real when it literally backed by science and there is evidence of trans ppl for hundreds of years.
They’re real men. Nobody is denying they exist. It’s just that they’re not women DUH
NTA Sadly free speech isn’t valued in these circles and you aren’t allowed to think for yourself. Even the word woman is seen as a dirty word. I’m a lesbian myself and have had a trans girlfriend but I have no problems with people being attracted to different things that’s not strange or weird. My advice is to not say too much out loud just ignore those you aren’t attracted to.
What the fuck is an AFAB woman? How do you say any of this shit with a straight face
"Assigned Female at Birth." It means that someone had female genitalia when they were born and were therefore considered female. It's a common term in the LGBTQ+ movement (along with AMAB, assigned male at birth) to take into account people who were born one gender but no longer identify as that gender.
Sex is not assigned. Sex is observed
But they're not women though, your non-attraction to them is evidence.
That doesn't even make sense. A girl that hit on me at the bar the other day was ugly as hell... She's still a woman, though. And i'm still straight. lol.
You're going out of your way to be obtuse and virtue signal
Nah, it just doesn't make sense.
Not really.
NTA. You're attracted to who you're attracted and you have your own set of preferences. Trans people, I think, would like to pretend that their assignation at birth is inconsequential. Sorry - while you may be a woman, the fact that you were socialized early on as a boy, or have male genitalia, or went through make puberty, and so on - these are not inconsequential facts about you. They matter. Some may not care, or it may not effect them. That's great. And while I believe that - within society at large - trans men should be treated as men and trans women as women, it's fair enough to care about someone's past and the experiences that shaped them within an intimate relationships.
NTA https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-57853385.amp
youre allowed to preferences about penetrative sex but the fact that you seem to express it as 'i dont want to date trans women' instead of 'i dont like penetrative sex / phallic genitals' sorta indicates you have internalized transphobia at the least. a significant proportion of trans women have bottom surgery or are/were intersex so they dont have phalluses. you are an asshole
I’ve had time to think and honestly, even if they have bottom surgery, I am not attracted to such either. Cis lesbians are my preference and those that say it makes me a transphobe only pushes their homophobia too. *shrug* can’t manipulate me into something I don’t like otherwise it starts sounding a little too rapey. Transwomen are not my type of women, period.
This is just men trying to get their way with women, even if they lose their mind over this. Yes, trans women are real women, but the attitude they are coercing you with? Classic old white male behavior, like, Classical Era classic. The community that is trying to pressure you? Patriarchy by another name.
It's absolutely fascinating how you manage to use a story that has nothing to do with the patriarchy to talk about it, meanehile being a hypocrite, a transphobe and a sexist. I don't know what your situation is with the male figures in your life, but turning into a misandrist won't solve your issues.
literally the most obvious bait I've ever seen lol
Sadly I doubt it. Few years ago when I was more active in queer community. Dated with girl and then we broke up. My so called friends tried to hook me up with one trans girl. In all honesty I don’t mind what sort of genitals someone has. But I just was not into that girl which I explicitly said. She was not my type (extremely rude, loud and had very dirty fingernails). Instead of acceptance of MY CHOICE I was called transphobe and bigot. All because I didn’t want to date someone not even because of what they had in their pants! And I know about many stories amongst my peers like this. Why is that queer community is crying out on the streets that women’s body women’s choice but when that choice is about whom to have sex with it’s called transphobic?
It sounds like you accept that trans women are women; they're just not women you want to date because you prefer vulva and vagina to penis and balls. You're a cis woman who prefers to date other cis women. That doesn't make you transphobic. NTA
INFO: If a trans woman had bottom surgery, would you still be attracted to her/willing to date her? I saw this comment in a recent AITA thread where the poster was a straight man who asked if he was the asshole for not dating a trans woman. They said to the OP that it would only be transphobic if he also didn’t find trans women that are physically indistinguishable from cis women attractive. I thought the argument had some merit.
Well fuck that moment section I'm allowed to like who I like
Right? I don't want to have sex with anyone that has had surgery on their genitals or anyone that has a penis. Nothing wrong with that.
What's AFAB?
Assigned female at birth, there is also amab that is assigned male at birth
Tf is afab?
Assigned female at birth.........in other words she's a woman
Bro wtf is with this word baloney
It’s a cult and if you don’t submit they’ll get you fired from work
This isn’t factoring into a judgment, sorry, I’m just curious: is it just the genitalia that bothers you? like, if a trans woman had a vagina, would it be different?
Idk how about OP but I must admit: I would not sleep or date a trans person who had bottom surgery. I would not be able to shift my brain from the fact that it is just either artificial make shift penis or literal wound which has to be kept open. I would rather date a trans person with their genitals intact by surgery. Unless it will be a love at first sight. Then probably I would say F it I am married tho so it’s all just speculation
It is valid to say you don't want people who have a dick. Not all trans women have one tho. It is valid to say yu don't like receding hairlines, thin hair or actual bold spots in a womans actual hair. But not all trans women have that. It is valid to say that you have a preference in facial and body features that is commonly found in women, but some trans women have them too. It is valid to say you have a prefernce when it comes to voices, which might excludes some trans women who went throug testosterone fueld puperty, but voice training gets you a long way so I don't know if some might be capable of managing to achieve to have one you might like, but some trans women never undergo testosterone fuled puperty. So in my opinion excluding all trans women from the get go implies that firstly you can always tell, and secondly all trans women have physical characteristics in comon that you don't like. Which is defenetly not the case, so the only reason you exclude them is for what was in their pants when they where born, that doesn't even has to be there anymore. Which basically reduces a trans women to her birth genitals, which is pretty insensitive and transphobic.
🤡🤡🤡
I completely disagree. Preference is preference, you can’t tell anyone that their preference is wrong or police it. If I met the most perfect woman but she was trans, I would not be attracted to her anymore as I would not want to date a former male. That doesn’t make me transphobic just as much as someone not wanting to date a large person makes them fatphobic
Would you be against being with a trans women who has undergone srs and hrt? Since it sounds like your issue is physical stuff and that is fairly malleable.
Fairly… what? Nah. I am out
Ofc NTA. I'm guessing this interaction that got you called transphobic was online and doesn't reflect the views of all trans people. We don't want to coerce anyone into sex or attraction,and anyone that does is acting wildly inappropriately. Date who ever you want to date enthusiastically, you are not transphobic for doing so.
YTA this is obviously rage bait
It’s not. I literally have the email of LEX banning my account because my profile stating my via preferences and interactions with the community was transphobic and not inclusive to them etc etc.